========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 06:17:23 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Welcome to New NACHO Members MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi NACHOs For the past week, I've been working to add about 50 new members to our organization/discussion list. The response to a recent announcement was impressive to say the least. Sorry about the delays.... So, I want to say a public welcome to all the new NACHO member. And, I want to encourage the newcomers to take a moment to introduce themselves to their new colleagues. If you are not a new member, but you've been lurking for a while, how about saying hello to everyone with a brief introduction. Remember, you can access the list archives at the LSW web site (see NACHO). Have fun, be kind, encourage lab safety. ... jim ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, Director The Laboratory Safety Workshop Safety in Science Education 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 labsafe@aol.com http://www.labsafety.org/ LSW is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, seminar schedule, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 07:34:29 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Tayman, Tammy" Subject: Re: Grounding Large Solvent Containers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Labsafe@AOL.COM [mailto:Labsafe@AOL.COM] > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 1999 8:47 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: Grounding Large Solvent Containers > > > In a message dated 99-09-30 09:20:04 EDT, you write: > > << I looked in Prudent Practices, and couldn't find anything > specific. >> > > > Did you look on Page 60 in the first edition? ... Jim > If it is so important, why do we have to go back to the first edition? Why did it get dropped? And since when are we supposed to go by outdated sources? I should think that would open up a rather large bag of worms when we look at the way things have changed in other sections of Prudent Practices. Tammy Tayman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 07:57:51 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Julie O'Brien Subject: Grounding Large Solvent Containers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF0BE2.A94A5A80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF0BE2.A94A5A80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NFPA 45 says "Class I liquids shall not be transferred between = conductive containers of greater than 4L (1.1 gal) capacity unless the = containers are electrically interconnected by direct bonding or by = indirect bonding through a common grounding system. When dispensing = Class I liquids involves nonconductive containers larger than 4 L (1.1 = gal), which can be difficult to bond or ground, special dispensing = procedures commensurate with the electrical characteristics of the = liquid shall be developed and implemented." I'm sure you can find a similar reference in NFPA 30. There's also a grounding procedure in the National Electrical Code. (I = don't have the reference.) I found several references to grounding in Prudent Practices (1995 = editon). Look under grounding in the index. Julie O'Brien afn35210@afn.org ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF0BE2.A94A5A80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
NFPA 45 says "Class I liquids = shall not be=20 transferred between conductive containers of greater than 4L (1.1 gal) = capacity=20 unless the containers are electrically interconnected by direct bonding = or by=20 indirect bonding through a common grounding system. When dispensing = Class I=20 liquids involves nonconductive containers larger than 4 L (1.1 gal), = which can=20 be difficult to bond or ground, special dispensing procedures = commensurate with=20 the electrical characteristics of the liquid shall be developed and=20 implemented."
 
I'm sure you can find a similar reference in NFPA=20 30.
 
There's also a grounding procedure in the National = Electrical=20 Code. (I don't have the reference.)
 
I found several references to grounding in Prudent = Practices=20 (1995 editon). Look under grounding in the index.
 
Julie O'Brien
afn35210@afn.org
  ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF0BE2.A94A5A80-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:32:08 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Robert Burns Subject: Re: Grounding Large Solvent Containers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I threw out my first ed. and just have the second. "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 Fax 815 333 4805 -----Original Message----- From: Labsafe@AOL.COM [mailto:Labsafe@AOL.COM] Sent: Thursday, September 30, 1999 20:47 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Grounding Large Solvent Containers In a message dated 99-09-30 09:20:04 EDT, you write: << I looked in Prudent Practices, and couldn't find anything specific. >> Did you look on Page 60 in the first edition? ... Jim ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:35:26 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Robert Burns Subject: Re: Grounding Large Solvent Containers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well said, Tammy. My thoughts exactly, but expressed better than I could have. "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 Fax 815 333 4805 -----Original Message----- From: Tayman, Tammy [mailto:ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US] Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 7:34 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Grounding Large Solvent Containers > -----Original Message----- > From: Labsafe@AOL.COM [mailto:Labsafe@AOL.COM] > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 1999 8:47 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: Grounding Large Solvent Containers > > > In a message dated 99-09-30 09:20:04 EDT, you write: > > << I looked in Prudent Practices, and couldn't find anything > specific. >> > > > Did you look on Page 60 in the first edition? ... Jim > If it is so important, why do we have to go back to the first edition? Why did it get dropped? And since when are we supposed to go by outdated sources? I should think that would open up a rather large bag of worms when we look at the way things have changed in other sections of Prudent Practices. Tammy Tayman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:12:50 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "L. James Stock III" <34EMQ6K@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Subject: Re: Disposal costs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Drummed Waste Disposal Costs: Nonhalogenated High BTU Solvents 90.00/55 gal drum Halogenated Solvent Waste (10% halogens or more) 110.00/drum Nonhalogenated LOW BTU Solvent Waste 1,260/drum Heavy Metal Solutions 1,920/drum If Mercury present 6,900/drum Radioactive waste (low level) 40,000/drum ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:07:34 -0400 Reply-To: "edmiston@bluffton.edu" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Edmiston Organization: Bluffton College Subject: Re: Grounding Large Solvent Containers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you, Julie O'Brien, for pointing us to NFPA 45. That pretty much sums up, in a very short space, the correct situation. I like three things about NFPA 45. (1) It is exactly correct. Notice the emphasis is on BONDING... getting an electrical path between the dispenser and receiver. Two ways are given for doing this: (a) DIRECT BONDING (which requires a wire between the containers, but does not require grounding), (b) INDIRECT BONDING through a ground system (which requires BOTH the dispenser and receiver to be grounded, but does not require any bonding wire between the two). This is exactly what I have been trying to say. (2) It points out that this requirement is difficult with non-conductive containers. (3) It gives guidance about the size of containers above which we need to worry about this. It is unfortunate they don't give examples of "special procedures commensurate....," for non-conductive containers. They probably figure this is not their job. Their job is simply to tell you that you must have an electrical path for the separated charge to travel safely between the dispenser and receiver. You figure out how to do that. Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: 419-358-3270 Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: 419-358-3323 Chairman, Science Department E-Mail edmiston@bluffton.edu Bluffton College 280 West College Avenue Bluffton, OH 45817 -----Original Message----- From: Julie O'Brien [SMTP:afn35210@AFN.ORG] Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 7:58 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Grounding Large Solvent Containers NFPA 45 says "Class I liquids shall not be transferred between conductive containers of greater than 4L (1.1 gal) capacity unless the containers are electrically interconnected by direct bonding or by indirect bonding through a common grounding system. When dispensing Class I liquids involves nonconductive containers larger than 4 L (1.1 gal), which can be difficult to bond or ground, special dispensing procedures commensurate with the electrical characteristics of the liquid shall be developed and implemented." I'm sure you can find a similar reference in NFPA 30. There's also a grounding procedure in the National Electrical Code. (I don't have the reference.) I found several references to grounding in Prudent Practices (1995 editon). Look under grounding in the index. Julie O'Brien afn35210@afn.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:20:57 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Mary L. Turgeon" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF0BF6.A685A520" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF0BF6.A685A520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable unsubscribe ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF0BF6.A685A520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
unsubscribe
------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF0BF6.A685A520-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:14:58 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Stockroom Manager Subject: Re: Disposal costs Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Jim, By "low level radioactive waste" would that include absorbent materials use to clean up a small spill? ---------- >From: "L. James Stock III" <34EMQ6K@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> >To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >Subject: Re: Disposal costs >Date: Fri, Oct 1, 1999, 8:12 AM > >Drummed Waste Disposal Costs: >Nonhalogenated High BTU Solvents 90.00/55 gal drum >Halogenated Solvent Waste (10% halogens or more) 110.00/drum >Nonhalogenated LOW BTU Solvent Waste 1,260/drum >Heavy Metal Solutions 1,920/drum >If Mercury present 6,900/drum >Radioactive waste (low level) 40,000/drum ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:46:57 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Bomb threats and tornadoes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Good questions about some of the broader aspects of safety that often end up in the laps of already-understaffed EHS departments. Both hazards mentioned (bomb threats and tornadoes) are legitimate concerns requiring a common step: PLANNING. Bomb-threats: yes, speak with your local law enforcement agency to see how they'd like things handled. Walk-throughs before incidents are nice, not just for bomb techs but fire departments as well. A few points on this topic: - When the fire alarm sounds, lock the doors on the way out (don't create risk by evacuating and leaving areas open to theft). Bomb threats are different - this is a security issue and there will likely be a security perimeter established if the threat is determined to warrant evacuation. In this case, locking doors isn't necessary and may hinder operations, as I think someone pointed out. - Keep in mind that a bomb threat doesn't always require evacuation. Most law enforcement agencies (LEAs) will work with you to help you determine the best way to manage these, but terroristic threats are always assessed on the basis of credibility among other considerations. I'm part of a group that has been dealing with issues like this for several years, and philosophy has changed. Just as we don't automatically respond everyone to every anthrax threat (hint: if the note says "anthracks" it just might be a hoax), we don't always send a big response to every bomb threat. LEAs know that employees can recognize out-of-place items easier than police officers unfamiliar with the building can, and they'll try to take advantage of that. Given that this is a public list, I think I'll leave it at that. Bottom line, talk to your local LEA; if you have campus police, they should be involved; even if you only have internal (i.e., non-commissioned) security, they should be brought into the discussion along with physical plant/facilities. Tornadoes: again, work with your local response agencies and emergency-management officials. There are simple reinforcing kits for interior rooms (think of it as the modern version of the home bomb shelter) that'll be effective in all but the worst storms. Hint: probably best not to make an area where chemicals are stored or used into a shelter, but you probably knew that already... Every institution should have a functional disaster plan, which starts with a hazard vulnerability analysis. What are the most likely hazards? What are the most severe (not always the most likely)? What are simple steps that can be taken to reduce risk? Are people in your institution aware of hazards and emergency procedures (i.e., do they know what to do when a tornado is roaring toward campus)? More basic concerns: how do you notify people on your campus that there's an incident? How do you identify necessary responders who don't wear uniforms? Most institutions have no functional plan. It's not if, it's when... I have a little more knowledge and experience in emergency planning and response than I do in lab safety (not difficult): most folks are flat-out unprepared. (Anyone looking for a consultant?) Onward, JNR Jeff Rubin jrubin@mail.utexas.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:17:01 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mark Yanchisin Subject: Re: Bomb threats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Greetings- I agree with all the info about bomb threats, i.e.- the security issues and dealing with local authorities. Ask them for guidance with what they want you to do. Our local responders have requested that we ask the building occupants if they saw anything out of place. The authorities will not know your building or its contents and will need to trust the building occupants for hints fi they do a search. In a bomb threat situation, have the staff do a quick look around to see if there is something unexplainable, such as an abandoned box or briefcase or backpack. "Unexplainable" would mean that no one remembers anyone with the backpack or briefcase or not signing for the UPS box. We also have a 2 page info sheet, that I believe originated from the FBI, but was passed to us by the local and campus police departments. We have the person who took the call complete the form ASAP while they have a fresh memory and give it to the local police responders. It contains questions to ask the caller (if they remember about it during the call) and requests info about the caller's voice, demeanor, background noises etc. We also isolate the phone the call came in on, as the number can be traced to the phone used to make the call via caller ID and autocall back systems. The police do this- not the building staff!!! Just my thoughts and additions. Mark Yanchisin Coordinator for Clinical and Lab Safety Programs University of Florida Env. Health and Safety PO Box 112195 Building 104 Gainesville, FL 32611-2195 352-392-1591 (T) 352-392-3414 (F) Mark@ehs.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:30:12 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Sharon Reed Subject: Re: Bomb threats and tornadoes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I hope, also, that those of you who represent facilities and who have an active LEPC (Local Emergency Planning Committee) in your county are participating in that LEPC. The LEPC should be the focus for planning of such threats, coordinating all local groups from Police, Fire, and EMS to hospitals, service groups, schools, and industries. Here's a webpage for more information......... http://www.lepcnet.org/lepc/webpage/webpage.html Sharon Reed Safety Officer Pall Corporation Cortland NY 13045 Sharon_Reed@pall.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:16:25 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Russ Phifer Subject: Re: Disposal costs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David - I believe, depending on the number of drums of each, you would be looking at approximately $100 for the cyclohexane , $150 for the halogenated hydrocarbons, and between $90 (non-RCRA hazardous) and $200 (RCRA hazardous) for the inorganic salts in aqueous solution. Transportation costs, depending on quantity and/or distance to the TSDF, could be between $30 and $100/drum. Russ Phifer WC Environmental, LLC On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:50:21 -0400 "David C. Finster" writes: > Colleagues, > > In a presentation about lab wastes that we do for our students in > general > chemistry, we try to illustrate the wisdom of 1) making certain that > all > wastes are clearly identified, and 2) that wastes should not be > indiscriminately mixed. To emphasize the points, we like to show > the > approximate costs of dealing with 3 different 55 gallon drums of > materials. > As examples, "Drum 1 contains distilled cyclohexane," "Drum 2 > contains a > mixture of low MW, halogenated hydrocarbons," and "Drum 3 is > unlabelled, > but believed to contain a mixture of various inorganic salts of > varying > solubility in water." Without getting distracted by too many > variables, > can anyone give me "illustrative" or "reasonable" estimate for the > costs of > disposal of these three drums? > > Thanks. > > Dave > - > ******************************* > David C. Finster > Professor and Chair, Department of Chemistry > University Chemical Hygiene Officer > Wittenberg University > http://userpages.wittenberg.edu/dfinster/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:08:12 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Mueller, Jeff" Subject: Position Available at Amgen, Inc.: Lab Safety Specialist Comments: To: "LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU" , "radsafe@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Amgen, the world's largest independent biotechnology company, has a position for a Lab Safety Specialist in its Thousand Oaks, CA, office. Job Description: Provide support to laboratory management and staff to help them facilitate, assess, and promote safe and healthy working conditions in laboratory areas. Recommend measures to reduce or eliminate accidents and health hazards in compliance with state, federal and local regulations. Requirements: Typically 3-5 years of related laboratory safety experience in a university or bio-pharmaceutical research environment or the combination of education and or experience. Strong interpersonal skills. Ability to communicate clearly and effectively (both in writing and orally) with highly educated research and managerial staff. Good organizational skills. Computer literacy and a working knowledge of word processing, spreadsheet, Internet, and database applications. BS Degree in biology, chemistry, safety, engineering, or an equivalent field. The Job Identification Number for this position is: 99-0001180 Please send resume with salary requirements to me at the address below. Thanks, Jeff ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Jeff Mueller, PE, CHP Manager, Laboratory Safety AMGEN, INC. One Amgen Center Drive, 10-2-A Thousand Oaks, CA 91320-1799 USA 805/447-1992 (Voice) 805/498-8887 (Fax) 805/359-5493 (Pager) jmueller@amgen.com ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:05:39 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "L. James Stock III" <34EMQ6K@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Subject: Re: Disposal costs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I DON'T KNOW. I am not the Rad officer. I only handle hazardous waste of the non-radioactive nature. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:57:43 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Teresa Robertson Subject: Re: Perchloric Acid Comments: cc: trobertson@csubak.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu,.internet writes: >Although most lab-concentrations of perchloric are very nasty to >biological >tissue, I'll assume you're referring to perchloric acid hoods. We require >specialty hoods for heated perchloric or any temperature perchloric at >concentrations > 72%. Does this mean that if I am making 0.1 and 0.5 N solutions of perchloric acid in water, at room temp, from 70% that I do not need a specialty hood for perchloric in which to make the dilutions? Teresa Robertson CSUB ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:49:28 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Unsubscribing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi NACHOs, If you decide you wish to "resign" from the association, the "resignation" directions are at the LSW web site on the NACHO pages. ... jim ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, Director The Laboratory Safety Workshop Safety in Science Education 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 Cell: 508-574-6264 Email: labsafe@aol.com Web Site: http://www.labsafety.org/ ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 08:19:37 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike Dougherty Subject: Welcome. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005A_01BF0CAE.DDC9DCA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BF0CAE.DDC9DCA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A short note to say hi to all and have a great day. =20 I recently became a member of the Association. Great idea. =20 I use the CCOHS Safety Net a lot. A good site, but information = exchanged is wide ranging. This network should provide specific = information on Chemical Safety issues. I am a Canadian Registered Safety Professional presently working in = Guelph, Ontario Canada. I have about 15 years experience in safety, health and environmemnt in = Chemical, Manufacturing, Government and Health Care settings. My degree = in H&S Administration was obtained in the Great State of California. Self employed I operate MD SAFETY SERVICES. I look forard to talking with you and exchanging ideas and comments. Take care now and smile, makes people wonder what you've been up to... = and that's great. Red =20 ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BF0CAE.DDC9DCA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A short note to say hi to all and = have a great=20 day.  
 
I recently became a member of the=20 Association.  Great idea.  
 
I use the CCOHS Safety Net a = lot.  A good=20 site, but information exchanged is wide ranging. This network should = provide specific=20 information on Chemical Safety issues.
 
I am a Canadian Registered Safety = Professional=20 presently working in Guelph, Ontario Canada.
 
I have about 15 years experience in = safety,=20 health and environmemnt in Chemical, Manufacturing, Government and = Health Care=20 settings.  My degree in H&S Administration was obtained in the Great State of=20 California.
 
Self employed I operate MD SAFETY = SERVICES.
 
I look forard to talking with you and exchanging = ideas and=20 comments.
 
Take care now and smile,  makes people wonder = what you've=20 been up to... and that's great.
 
Red
 
------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BF0CAE.DDC9DCA0-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 06:11:28 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Harry Elston Subject: Re: Perchloric Acid Comments: To: Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:57 PM 10/1/99 -0700, you wrote: >LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu,.internet writes: >>Although most lab-concentrations of perchloric are very nasty to >>biological >>tissue, I'll assume you're referring to perchloric acid hoods. We require >>specialty hoods for heated perchloric or any temperature perchloric at >>concentrations > 72%. > >Does this mean that if I am making 0.1 and 0.5 N solutions of perchloric >acid in water, at room temp, from 70% that I do not need a specialty hood >for perchloric in which to make the dilutions? > >Teresa Robertson >CSUB Correct. Perchloric acid is not a fuming acid, and becomes "very nasty" (i.e. a powerful oxidizer) at temperatures above about 60-70 C. Dilute solutions have less "punch" at elevated temperatures, but can still be potent oxidizers. (I've used dilute solutions for wet oxidation experiments to extract radiocarbon from contaminated groundwater). Dilutions can be done on a bench (it's non-fuming) or in a normal hood. Digestions in a perchloric acid hood (only and always) with an operable washdown system. PPE, etc. always applies. Harry Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO Editor, Chemical Health and Safety Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bares a very close resemblance to the first. --- Ronald Reagan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 08:05:08 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Martin Besant Subject: Oct 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oct 1 post looked interesting. Then the background went black with only one message printed in green (the solvent container grounding) Is it my system, or is someone tinkering with the colors? Please don't Marty Besant ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 15:17:37 +0300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Poulose, John V" Subject: Re: Perchloric Acid MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I thought it was appropriate to add one more safety note about working with Perchloric acid. When materials like hydrocarbon sludge or corrosion products containing organic / resinous matter are digested with Conc:Perchloric acid, there is a possibility of fire and explosion towards incipient dryness, in the absence of sufficient Nitric acid. To avoid this, maintain a typical ratio of Perchloric to Nitric ratio at 1:3. We deal with this kind of stuff in our Petroleum Analytical Lab for metallic composition analysis using ICP-MS. Just wanted to share my personal experience with those interested. John Poulos/ Lab Scientist/ Ras Tanura Refinery Lab/ ARAMCO/ Saudi Arabia e: poulosvj@aramco.com.sa -----Original Message----- From: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List [mailto:LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu] On Behalf Of Harry Elston Sent: 03 October 1999 14:11 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Perchloric Acid At 02:57 PM 10/1/99 -0700, you wrote: >LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu,.internet writes: >>Although most lab-concentrations of perchloric are very nasty to >>biological >>tissue, I'll assume you're referring to perchloric acid hoods. We require >>specialty hoods for heated perchloric or any temperature perchloric at >>concentrations > 72%. > >Does this mean that if I am making 0.1 and 0.5 N solutions of perchloric >acid in water, at room temp, from 70% that I do not need a specialty hood >for perchloric in which to make the dilutions? > >Teresa Robertson >CSUB Correct. Perchloric acid is not a fuming acid, and becomes "very nasty" (i.e. a powerful oxidizer) at temperatures above about 60-70 C. Dilute solutions have less "punch" at elevated temperatures, but can still be potent oxidizers. (I've used dilute solutions for wet oxidation experiments to extract radiocarbon from contaminated groundwater). Dilutions can be done on a bench (it's non-fuming) or in a normal hood. Digestions in a perchloric acid hood (only and always) with an operable washdown system. PPE, etc. always applies. Harry Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO Editor, Chemical Health and Safety Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bares a very close resemblance to the first. --- Ronald Reagan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:51:30 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Commercial - Save 20% on "Prudent Practices" Comments: To: Safety , Safe-NZ@niwa.cri.nz, nsela-l@science.coe.uwf.edu, NAOSMM@listserv.rice.edu, hs-canada@ccohs.ca, dchas-l@siu.edu, chemlab_L@vax1.bemidji.msus.edu, chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu, biosafty@mitvma.mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Prudent Practices in the Laboratory", second edition, National Academy Press, 1995 is available at the LSW web site for a limited time at 20% off the publisher's list price. List price is $69.95. Now $56.00. This is one of the indespensible lab safety reference books and really should be part of every science department's collection. The first edition was the basis for the model chemical hygiene plan (appendix A) in the OSHA lab standard. ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, Director The Laboratory Safety Workshop Safety in Science Education 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 Cell: 508-574-6264 Email: labsafe@aol.com Web Site: http://www.labsafety.org/ ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 08:46:25 +0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Winston Longue Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" set Labsafety nomail ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------- Winston Longue Safety Officer mcbwel@imcb.nus.edu.sg Institute of Molecular and Cell Biology 30 Medical Drive, Singapore 117609 Tel: (65)-874-7888 ; Fax: (65)-779-1117 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 06:52:52 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: NoMail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi NACHOs Remember, the discussion list (labsafety-l) has two email addresses. This one is only for messages which you would like distributed to our 750 members. The other address (listserv@siu.edu) is for commands to change the way you receive the messages or information about the list itself and its command structure. So, requesting NOMAIL should go to the latter with the full name of the list... set labsafety-l nomail Regards, ... Jim ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 06:52:58 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Close Calls and Near Misses Comments: To: CHEMLAB_L@vax1.bemidji.msus.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for sharing that one, Chris. There have been several serius mishaps with the thermite reaction/demo. The two most significant were that on where Stephen Zumdahl had an open house for 300 elementary and secondary students. 27 students were sent to the hospital when they use water instead of sand to catch to molton metal. No shield was used. In Denver, Lloyd Hendricks, a physics teacher at Washington High School, injured five students and blew off his hand in front of the class. He apparently mistakenly poured the thermite starter mixture into a crucible that was still hot from buring magnesium in it. No shield was used. ... jim In a message dated 99-10-04 01:07:44 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: Close Calls and Near Misses Date: 99-10-04 01:07:44 EDT From: CElhardt@aol.com Reply-to: CHEMLAB_L@VAX1.BEMIDJI.MSUS.EDU To: CHEMLAB_L@vax1.bemidji.msus.edu >Hi CHEMLABs, >Does anyone on the list have a story about a close call or near miss >concerning a chem lab or demo that they can share with the group? ... Jim 1966. Mr. "N's" second year of teaching, and he decided to lobby for a second year chemistry class. On the first day he's up front saying "What, you've never seen a thermite reaction?", whereupon he lights a magnesium wire sticking out of a mound of gray powder in a crucible sitting on about 5 sheets of asbestos. A blinding flash. Chunks of broken crucible and molten iron flying past uncomprehending students. A hole burned clean to the lab bench through as many as 5 asbestos pads. A burn spot on the ceiling. It was a wonderful demo. >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:56:55 -0400 Reply-To: wessonl@co.oakland.mi.us Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Larry Wesson Organization: Oakland County Michigan Subject: Re: Bomb threat procedures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tayman, Tammy wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Geoffrey White [mailto:gwhite@JJC.CC.IL.US] > > > > We had a bomb threat at our campus last week. In the > > debriefing session, > > it was mentioned that after we had made sure everyone was out of the > > building, that we should leave the doors open so that > > authorized personnel > > (fire, police, etc.) could more easily access spaces. Is > > this really a > > good idea? > > > > In years past we went through so many bomb scares in one semester that > security stopped notifying anyone that we had another threat. The usually > showed up arond the time of exams, midterms and finals. We never had an > actual bomb in the building at that time. > > These days, however, they tend to take such things more seriously. They > sound the fire alarm to evacuate the building quickly and while they are > making sure the building is empty, I make sure that everything is off in the > labs and all doors are unlocked. On the occassions that they have actually > brought in the bomb dogs, I have escorted them through the labs, making sure > that the dog is not exposed to anything that might compromise his health or > his nose. When the building was declared "clean", I went through and > resecured everything before anyone else was let back in. > > It was quite interesting and educational. > > Tammy Tayman Tammy, how do you know the fire alarm is not indicating a fire? You could possibly be entering a room that's on fire. Most states have laws against using a fire alarm for other than a fire. I know all national standards require the fire alarm to be used only for fire. Just food for thought. Larry Wesson, Chief Oakland County Michigan Fire & Security ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:17:30 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Madelyn Miller Subject: Re: Perchloric Acid In-Reply-To: <89AA394C3F6BD211A04A0000F64A7FF1B6CF12@ntrtpmx14.rtn.aramco.com.sa> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Greetings, What about heat of dilution with perchloric acid? (Don't have a CRC handy) Our rule is that perchloric acid can be used in a normal hood as long as the process is at ambient temperature or below. If the process heats up on it's own then it needs to be used in a washdown hood. ---------------------- Madelyn Miller Director & Chemical Hygiene Officer Environmental Health & Safety Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 15213 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:52:13 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: James Kapin Subject: Job Posting - Lab Safety at UCSD Comments: To: SAFETY@LIST.UVM.EDU, IH-LIST@lists.aiha.org, BIOSAFTY@MITVMA.MIT.EDU, uc-ehs@ucdavis.edu, uclabsafe@ucdavis.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Hi all, and apologies for any cross-posting - UC San Diego, located in La Jolla California, is hiring an EH&S Specialist 1. Primary responsibilities include lab safety surveys, HazCom and Lab Safety training. Salary is from $41,900 - $52,300. Announcement with application instructions is at http://joblink.ucsd.edu/bulletin/tech_jobs.html#118026. DO NOT SEND APPLICATION MATERIALS TO ME - all applications must go through HR. Reply to me off the list (jkapin@ucsd.edu) for any questions or info - Jim Jim Kapin, UCSD Chemical Safety Officer Mail Code 0920 9500 Gilman Drive, La Jolla CA 92093 (858)534-2823 fax (858)534-7982 mailto:jkapin@ucsd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:19:36 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Tayman, Tammy" Subject: Re: Bomb threat procedures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" After many years in fire and rescue, I guess I just assumed that everyone would check for signs of fire before opening a door in that sort of situation... For anybody out there who hasn't thought of it, please do. The first check is to look through any window in the door. The next is to check for smoke coming from under the door. The next would be to feel the temperature of the doorknob/door. Only then should one carefully open the door. And this, only after the appropriate authorities have been notified. Did I leave anything out? Tammy > -----Original Message----- > Tammy, how do you know the fire alarm is not indicating a fire? You > could possibly be entering a room that's on fire. Most states > have laws > against using a fire alarm for other than a fire. I know all national > standards require the fire alarm to be used only for fire. > > Just food for thought. > > Larry Wesson, Chief > Oakland County Michigan > Fire & Security > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:44:35 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Neal Langerman Comments: To: hs-canada@ccohs.ca, moon@adlibv.adelphi.edu, occ-env-med-l@list.mc.duke.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed ******************************************************************* NEAL LANGERMAN ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY 8909 COMPLEX Dr. Ste C SAN DIEGO CA 92123 858 874 5577 858 874 8239 (FAX) http://www.chemical-safety.com Advanced Chemical Safety is the source for prevention of injury, illness or environmental insult! ******************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:06:59 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Don Abramowitz Subject: Re: Bomb threat procedures In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The national standard against using the fire alarm for non-fire evacuations seems to present a quandary. I tend to agree with Tammy on this. If the alarm were manually tripped for a non-fire reason, seems that odds are against encountering a fire behind a door, though it could certainly still happen. This brings to mind a dilemna we have faced in non-fire emergency evacuations on our humble campuses (or campi, as suggested by a fellow NACHO), where we used the fire alarm to facilitate the evacuation. We typically have just two public safety officers on per shift, and manually evacuating a large dorm or classroom building, door-by-door, is a daunting, time consuming task. Here are two non-fire scenarios for which we used the alarms, and about which I would appreciate comments: 1) A complaint about exhaust fumes with no apparent source, which, upon investigation, lead to the measurement of about 35 ppm of carbon monoxide thoughout a large area inside an office/classroom building. Not judged to be life threatening, but the lack of additional information made evacuating the buildilng seem like a good idea at the time. (Later, we found we had a fellow working diligently with a gasoline powered cut-off saw directly under an air intake.) 2) A "strong" natural gas odor in a dorm served as a late-night basis to evacuate the building via pull stations. Instrumentation to assess the severity was not immediately available. Turned out to be a pilot light out, but folks judged it as an immediate threat... My general sense is that it is reasonable for emergency responders to use the fire alarm, in the absence of another communication system, to evacuate a building when available information indicates a condition presenting an immediate threat to the occupants within. I'd especially appreciate comments about the second scenario, in that the fire alarm system itself could be a source of ignition during a major gas leak. After some debate on this, tentative consensus around here (including fire dept. input) was that the greater good is getting people out of a building quickly, as opposed to not getting them out quickly for fear of introducing an ignition source, with case-by-case judgment being the final arbiter. We're presuming that an assortment of ignition sources is already present, from various electrical devices under normal use, at the time of the alarm activation in this scenario. Feedback on this would be very helpful just now, since we are re-evaluating our procedures for responding to a gas leak. Generally, our procedures call for bringing in the gas company (and the fire dept. when things look serious), but there is a nagging discomfort in waiting for their arrival when there are a couple of hundred sleeping people in a building. Thanks very much, Don >After many years in fire and rescue, I guess I just assumed that everyone >would check for signs of fire before opening a door in that sort of >situation... >> Tammy, how do you know the fire alarm is not indicating a fire? I know >>all national >> standards require the fire alarm to be used only for fire. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:27:39 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: stefan Subject: Job Opportunities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The Environmental Health & Safety department at the University of Connecticut is seeking three (3) Specialist 1 positions to provide programmatic support and maintain regulatory compliance in the areas of Biological, Chemical, & Occupational Safety, at the main campus & 6 regional campuses. The Biological Spec (Search # 00F-2) will conduct laboratory inspections, environmental sampling & analyses, & training. The Chemical Spec (Search # 00F-3) will conduct laboratory inspections with a strong focus on hazardous waste regulations. The Occupational Spec (Search # 00F-4 will provide oversight and support in the areas of asbestos, hazcom, PPE, & noise programs. Minimum qualifications: Bachelor's degree in pertinent scientific disciplin e; plus one year of related experience. Certifications will be beneficial; knowledge of applicable regulations; ability to effectively communicate with faculty, students, staff; strong computer skills; valid driver's license to operate university motor vehicles. These are permanent, full-time positions with full benefits. Please send a letter of application, resume, and the names of three professional references to: Environmental Health & Safety Specialist Search University of Connecticut 3102 HorseBarn Hill Rd, U-97 Storrs, CT 06269-4097 Stefan Wawzyniecki, CIH, NRCC-CHO Chemical Health & Safety ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:06:45 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Use of Fire Alarm Systems for Evacuation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was following this discussion with interest since we are in the process of up dating evacuations plans here on our campus(campi). We too, decided to use the fire alarm system as a means to communicate the urgent need to evacuate a building. We have no PA system. Not everyone is near a phone to take a call(you can enter voice mail hell here if your not careful). We have only 1 public safety officer on duty per shift. The fire alarm system seemed to be the only constant from building to building that everyone would hear(or see if deaf) to communicate the need to get out of a building quickly. Then I see the post from one of our colleagues who happens to be a fire chief. It caught my attention and obviously the attention of many of us on the list. How do other places clear a building in a quick, orderly fashion? How do you handle multiple buildings with a limited safety staff? How do you address the needs of those who can not easily vacate a building(wheel chairs)? These are just a few of the questions we thought we had answered by using the fire alarm system and putting into effect the evacuation plans we developed for fire emergencies. What are others out there doing? Janeen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Janeen M. Lapierre, CHO College of Osteopathic Medicine University of New England 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 Phone - (207)283-0170 x2446 Fax - (207)294-5931 JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:29:00 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Naomi Kelly Subject: Fire Alarm Use for Evacuations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We use our fire alarms for evacuations other than fire emergencies--our fire department has no problem with this. Question for the fire chief who responded--Is this usually a jurisdictional call by the fire chief, or are we ignoring regulation? Naomi Kelly Environmental Health and Safety Officer Clemson University 261 P&AS Building Clemson, SC 29634-5740 (864)656-7554 Fax (864)656-7630 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:35:18 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Brian Wazlaw Subject: Re: Use of Fire Alarm Systems for Evacuation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A great person to contact concerning emergency planning is Len Wallace at the EPA in Boston 617 918 1835, e-mail, wallace.len@epa.gov. They have lots of info from FEMA, OSHA, and the Emergency Planning Center. Also, you might want to check school districts in your area. Some have developed extensice Crisis Management Plans. Good luck, Brian Wazlaw Exeter High School Exeter, NH ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:03:35 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Greene, Ben" Subject: Re: Use of Fire Alarm Systems for Evacuation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain 29 CFR 1910.38 (Employee Emergency Plans and Fire Prevention Plans) is short but to the point and I highly recommend it be referred to in the context of this discussion. Some emergency evacuation plans I have seen designate "local fire wardens" for an area. These individuals are employees with "an extra responsibility", trained by an on-site fire department, and have a hand-held radio and a red hard hat at their work areas. In the event of an emergency alarm, they do a quick check (within the umbrella of their training) of a specified area to ensure people have evacuated, shut doors, etc. They maintain communication with the fire department via radio then exit the building immediately after their check. In the event of a chemical release inside the building that poses an immediate threat to personnel outside an immediate confined area, the fire department is notified via emergency phone number, and an emergency PA overide announcement is made that all personnel must leave the building to their designated outdoor assembly areas. (I suppose bullhorns could be used in the absence of a PA system.) An emergency alarm is then activated (can be activated remotely by the fire department/hazmat team). Local fire wardens have no training in spill response and exit the building with the others, and the fire department/hazmat team are then in control. The local fire wardens are also responsible for the mandatory 1910.38 accounting for personnel after an evacuation. Rosters are usually used, and the fire chief/hazmat incident commander is notified of any unaccounted for persons. Some plans also have a provision for evacuation INTO a building, in the event of an outside chemical release. In this case, an outside alarm, different in tone from the inside emergency alarm, alerts personnel to go to a designated assembly area INSIDE a building. HVAC systems are shut down. Very important that people are trained not to initiate an indoor emergency alarm in this case. Same accounting procedures apply after the evacuation INTO the building. It is very important that people are taught the difference between various alarm tones and where their assembly areas (outdoor and indoor) are. Periodic drills and critiques thereof are essential to make sure these plans and the accounting procedures are working. Ben ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:24:02 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Mueller, Jeff" Subject: Position Available at Amgen.: Lab Safety Specialist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Amgen, the world's largest independent biotechnology company, has a position for a Lab Safety Specialist in its Thousand Oaks, CA, office. Job Description: Provide support to laboratory management and staff to help them facilitate, assess, and promote safe and healthy working conditions in laboratory areas. Recommend measures to reduce or eliminate accidents and health hazards in compliance with state, federal and local regulations. Requirements: Typically 3-5 years of related laboratory safety experience in a university or bio-pharmaceutical research environment or the combination of education and or experience. Strong interpersonal skills. Ability to communicate clearly and effectively (both in writing and orally) with highly educated research and managerial staff. Good organizational skills. Computer literacy and a working knowledge of word processing, spreadsheet, Internet, and database applications. BS Degree in biology, chemistry, safety, engineering, or an equivalent field. The Job Identification Number for this position is: 99-0001180 Please send resume with salary requirements to me at the address below. Thanks, Jeff ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Jeff Mueller, PE, CHP Manager, Laboratory Safety AMGEN, INC. One Amgen Center Drive, 10-2-A Thousand Oaks, CA 91320-1799 USA 805/447-1992 (Voice) 805/498-8887 (Fax) 805/359-5493 (Pager) jmueller@amgen.com ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:28:57 -0700 Reply-To: techton@pop.ihug.co.nz Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Tony Haggerty Subject: Re: Fire Alarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Fire Alarms" should be called "evacuation alarms" and used whenever there is a threat to life. eg Bomb Alerts. After all Fire Brigades are charged in most places with protecting life and property. Extinguishing fires is secondary. Tony ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:06:52 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Fire alarms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" First of all, I think it's great that we have a fire chief on the list. NACHO continues to expand... My interpretation on using fire alarms for fires only is that it's primarily for the safety of the responders. With an ever-growing amount of all-purpose (fire, burglary, medical) alarm systems, and an ever-growing tendency of municipalities to fine repeated non-malicious false alarms, more and more firefighters and medics are sent to "alarm activations" that potentially allow them to meet criminals engaging in unpleasant activities. When I worked in Austin's 9-1-1 center we would always request PD on all-purpose or unspecified alarm activations. It follows, therefore, that if a public-safety agency wishes to have the alarm system used for non-fire building evac, and the property owner agrees, no worries, as long as the responders know the true nature of the alarm. Part of the equation is how FD is notified: direct link vs. call from campus/private security. When I was at UT Austin FD recommended using the fire alarm system to evacuate the building if necessary for a chemical spill, and you could make a strong point that a bomb threat or flammable gas leak provide equal or greater fire danger than an isolated wastebasket fire. Of course, this is not a legal interpretation, blah-blah-blah; I'd say check with your local response agencies and see what they think - I'll bet you can work something out. As far as an alarm igniting a flammable atmosphere, I wouldn't worry about it any more than I would a radio inadvertently setting off a bomb - no recorded case of either. Given all the other ignition sources in a typical building, alarm-induced ignition is the least of the potential problems. Nice to see so many people thinking about this. Onward, JNR Jeff Rubin jrubin@mail.utexas.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:33:04 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Henderson, Cheryl" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BF0F81.5E27DAB2" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF0F81.5E27DAB2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am a new member of this list. I have been asked by my company to review the outdated CHP and make changes. About a year ago, we were bought by another company, making the assignment of the CHO not valid. This fell through the cracks, and a new one was never assigned. How is a CHO assigned? Can the CHO be a member of the Safety Department? Who is supposed to appoint the CHO? Are there specific rules? What is the best written source to help me translate the CFR? Cheryl ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF0F81.5E27DAB2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am a new member of this list.  I have been = asked by my company to review the outdated CHP and make changes.  = About a year ago, we were bought by another company, making the = assignment of the CHO not valid.  This fell through the cracks, = and a new one was never assigned.  How is a CHO assigned?  = Can the CHO be a member of the Safety Department?  Who is supposed = to appoint the CHO? Are there specific rules?  What is the best = written source to help me translate the CFR?

Cheryl

------_=_NextPart_001_01BF0F81.5E27DAB2-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:18:37 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: CHO In-Reply-To: <0EC9BE7CD916D3119C4B00805F9FD8202FDC0A@alc-ntms-01.us.airl iquide.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" At 05:33 PM 10/5/99 -0500, you wrote: >>>> I am a new member of this list. Welcome to the club. I have been asked by my company to review the outdated CHP and make changes. About a year ago, we were bought by another company, making the assignment of the CHO not valid. This fell through the cracks, and a new one was never assigned. <<<<<<<< How (or by whom) is a CHO assigned? <<<<<<<< No answers in the regs. The lab supv., a warm body or volunteer. >>>> <<<<<<<< >>>> Can the CHO be a member of the Safety Department? <<<<<<<< Why not. >>>> Who is supposed to appoint the CHO? Are there specific rules? <<<<<<<< See above. >>>> What is the best written source to help me translate the CFR? <<<<<<<< CFR on CHP is not too long or difficult, actually pretty clear, and I don't like reading the CFR. Mostly it refers you to "Prudent Practices...." for good practices. Two things to remember: Once you decide on what is appropriate SOP for your lab, and write it down, then you had better see that it is followed. And if your lab does only QC type work, as for a factory process, then you probably fall under HazCom rather than the Lab Standard and CHP. As for written material, "Chemical Health & Safety", a journal of the Division of Chemical Health & Safety (now published by Elsevier) of the American Chemical Society, has some past issues with articles offering guidance to CHOs. As a matter of fact, at almost every national meeting of ACS our Division offers one day workshops before the meeting for CHOs preparing for a certification exam. (OSHA HAS NO REQUIREMENT FOR CERTIFICATION, it's mainly for self-validation). There have been a few books on the subject: authors that come to mind are Jay Young and Doug Walters, but titles and publisher escape me. I'm sure list members can jump in with the titles and other authors. >>>> Mary Ann <<<<<<<< >>>> Cheryl <<<<<<<< Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority Past Chair, DivCHAS, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:49:07 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Elizabeth Smith Subject: Re: CHO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF0FE0.08C9B130" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF0FE0.08C9B130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am the 'environmental, health & safety manager' for a pharmaceutical = firm - I run the safety department (it's a dept. of 1 at the moment). = We don't have a CHO, per se. We do have someone who performs those = functions, though (me). So, our CHO (me) at the moment IS the Safety Deparment. I don't think it is important that your job title correspond with = something from the regs, as long as the CHO job description does. If = OSHA comes looking for a CHO, your upper managment (the first people the = auditors talk to) ought to know WHO this person is and what they do. =20 I'm about to start looking for an assistant, so the duties of the CHO = are going to be split between us - I'm still the head of the department, = and I'm responsible for making sure that all of the duties required by = law are covered - how I do it is pretty much up to me. Interpreting the CFR -=20 OSHA's regs aren't very confusing (compared to, say, the EPA). I have = found that the biggest problem is the format in which they are printed - = it is incredibly difficult to figure out where you are, what passage = you're reading, because you can't tell if you're at 1910.146(c)(2)(ii) = or (d)(3)(ii). The layout on-line through the Government Printing = Office (GPO) is pretty easy - = http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfr-table-search.html - and is = searchable by both key word and citation (you can look up 'confined = spaces' or search 29CFR1910.146. - you can search the entire CFR, not = just OSHA's part. Other suggestion for budding CHO/Safety Professionals I can only speak for Michigan (we have a state OSHA program) - but .... = =20 I've called Mich-OSHA on several occasions and said "This is the = situation I'm looking at, how do you interpret these regulations?" They = have been very helpful in pointing out things I missed or misunderstood = and other regulations that might apply (e.g., "here's how we see the = regs, but the construction section of our dept. also has regs - you need = to check to see who is doing the work to see if there are other things = to consider.) This requires a certain amount of skillful wording, = if you are going to withhold your name/employer (which I have done = occasionally on really sensitive topics and they seem to consider as = normal). This is no guarantee that the person you speak to isn't a = total moron or that the next auditor who pops out to your place isn't = gonig to disagree with her co-worker back at the office, but it is a = good chance to get a feel for how the regulators want to see the laws = enforced. Afterall, I would rather call them, spend the $ for the phone = call and time, and benefit from their expertise - my tax dollars pay = their department budget. Read the Prudent Practices book - it retails for about $60 (I think), = and is the single best overall safety book I've found to date. Then = re-read it. Keep it at your desk. See if your local business bureau has any publications. OSHA certainly = does. EPA also has a lot, if you need to consider chemical releases. Contact the Loss Prevention department of the insurance company who = carries your workman's comp insurance. Ours has been infinitely helpful = in providing information, training, and educational resources to our = safety department **at no charge**. Face it - the fewer accidents you = have, the more of your premium they get to keep - it's financially = beneficial to them to help you reduce your accident rate before they = happen. Contact the local fire department and make sure you're in compliance = with notifying them of chemicals stored/used on site. They'll want to = know so that they can make better plans for responding to your facility = in an emergency. Contact the local POTW (waste water treatment facility) and find out = what your local regulations are on industrial discharges - then make = sure you're obeying them. Make sure you have a discharge permit, if you = need one. Join a professional organization - not just an on-line list serve. = These are useful. But get out an mingle in person with your fellow = professionals as much as your company can afford. The Chemical Health & = Safety Journal from the American Chemical Society (www.acs.org) = mentioned is a wonderful publication. The ACS has a division of = chemical safety. If you deal with biohazards, I strongly recommend the = American Biological Safety Association, which also has a newsletter and = journal (www.absa.org). Above all else - ask for help when you need it. Elizabeth ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF0FE0.08C9B130 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am the 'environmental, health & safety = manager' for a=20 pharmaceutical firm - I run the safety department (it's a dept. of 1 at = the=20 moment).  We don't have a CHO, per se.  We do have someone who = performs those functions, though (me).
 
So, our CHO (me) at the moment IS the Safety=20 Deparment.
 
I don't think it is important that your job title = correspond=20 with something from the regs, as long as the CHO job description = does.  If=20 OSHA comes looking for a CHO, your upper managment (the first people the = auditors talk to) ought to know WHO this person is and what they = do. =20
 
I'm about to start looking for an assistant, so the = duties of=20 the CHO are going to be split between us - I'm still the head of the = department,=20 and I'm responsible for making sure that all of the duties required by = law are=20 covered - how I do it is pretty much up to me.
 
Interpreting the CFR -
OSHA's regs aren't very confusing (compared to, say, = the=20 EPA).  I have found that the biggest problem is the format in which = they=20 are printed - it is incredibly difficult to figure out where you are, = what=20 passage you're reading, because you can't tell if you're at = 1910.146(c)(2)(ii)=20 or (d)(3)(ii).  The layout on-line through the Government Printing = Office=20 (GPO) is pretty easy - http://= www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfr-table-search.html=20 - and is searchable by both key word and citation (you can look up = 'confined=20 spaces' or search 29CFR1910.146. - you can search the entire CFR, not = just=20 OSHA's part.
 
 
Other suggestion for budding = CHO/Safety=20 Professionals
 
I can only speak for Michigan (we have a state OSHA = program) -=20 but ....  
I've called Mich-OSHA on several occasions and said = "This=20 is the situation I'm looking at, how do you interpret these=20 regulations?"  They have been very helpful in pointing out = things I=20 missed or misunderstood and other regulations that might apply (e.g.,=20 "here's how we see the regs, but the construction section of our = dept. also=20 has regs - you need to check to see who is doing the work to see if = there are=20 other things to consider.)      This requires a certain amount of skillful wording, if you are = going to=20 withhold your name/employer (which I have done occasionally on really = sensitive=20 topics and they seem to consider as normal).  This is no guarantee = that the=20 person you speak to isn't a total moron or that the next auditor who = pops out to=20 your place isn't gonig to disagree with her co-worker back at the = office, but it=20 is a good chance to get a feel for how the regulators want to see the = laws=20 enforced.  Afterall, I would rather call them, spend the $ for the = phone=20 call and time, and benefit from their expertise - my tax dollars pay = their=20 department budget.
 
Read the Prudent Practices book - it retails for = about $60 (I=20 think), and is the single best overall safety book I've found to = date. =20 Then re-read it.  Keep it at your desk.
 
See if your local business bureau = has any=20 publications.  OSHA certainly does.  EPA also has a lot, if = you need=20 to consider chemical releases.
 
Contact the Loss Prevention = department of the=20 insurance company who carries your workman's comp insurance.  Ours = has been=20 infinitely helpful in providing information, training, and educational = resources=20 to our safety department **at no charge**.  Face it - the fewer = accidents=20 you have, the more of your premium they get to keep - it's financially=20 beneficial to them to help you reduce your accident rate before they=20 happen.
 
Contact the local fire department and make sure = you're in=20 compliance with notifying them of chemicals stored/used on site.  = They'll=20 want to know so that they can make better plans for responding to your = facility=20 in an emergency.
 
Contact the local POTW (waste water treatment = facility) and=20 find out what your local regulations are on industrial discharges - then = make=20 sure you're obeying them.  Make sure you have a discharge permit, = if you=20 need one.
 
Join a professional organization - not just an = on-line list=20 serve.  These are useful.  But get out an mingle in person = with your=20 fellow professionals as much as your company can afford.  The = Chemical=20 Health & Safety Journal from the American Chemical Society (www.acs.org) mentioned is a wonderful=20 publication.  The ACS has a division of chemical safety.  If = you deal=20 with biohazards, I strongly recommend the American Biological Safety=20 Association, which also has a newsletter and journal (www.absa.org).
 
Above all else - ask for help when = you need=20 it.
 
Elizabeth
------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF0FE0.08C9B130-- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:55:01 -0400 Reply-To: dhaodu@visi.net Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "D. Alexander" Organization: Old Dominion University Subject: Protocol for HF Use! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi listers, Does anyone have a protocol for using hydrofluoric in a laboraotry setting. I have already acquired a tube of calcium gluconate to give to the PI fro this lab, but I want to make sure that his protocol is as safe as possible. By the way, the PI plans to use it to digest coal samples. Any help is greatly appreciated. Doug Alexander EHSO Old Dominion University ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:09:38 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Alarms/evacuation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Two good points in the continuing discussion: fire wardens and PAs. Most modern alarm systems for high-occupancy buildings have PAs with recorded messages (e.g., "Evacuate the building," and other motivational phrases). These systems can be overridden by responders at the scene to direct people toward/away from a specific area, or provide other specific information. Most high-rise buildings are zoned so that an alarm activation in one area doesn't dump the whole building. I instituted a Fire Warden procedure in two high-rise lab buildings I was responsible for, and UT has them in some non-lab buildings as well. Both buildings have zoned systems, and the Wardens are tasked with evacuation and security (ensuring that their area is clear, checking restrooms, etc.) and doing a quick check on doors to see if they're locked). If there's someone requiring special assistance (mobility, visual, or hearing impairment), the Warden should know in advance but their job is to get the person to a safe area, generally an exit stairwell, where the person can be carried down by FD if necessary. The Wardens are not tasked with investigation, and although they assist PD by trying to keep people from entering a building in alarm, they do so only by gentle advice. BTW, the Wardens I set up have reflective vests but no caps - UTPD and Austin FD know what the vests mean and how the Wardens are tasked. For more info on these issues, check out http://www.utexas.edu/cons/safety/bulletins/fire.html JNR Jeff Rubin jrubin@mail.utexas.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:52:19 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Roneet Levy Organization: Miravant Medical Technologies Subject: Chemical Transport MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F45F8CE90FBB5BFBAC0854FC" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F45F8CE90FBB5BFBAC0854FC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, I'm a new member to the list and I've already found it very informative. I'm hoping some of you will be able to share any experience with the following issue: The company I work for has two research facilities about two miles apart. Sometimes chemical deliveries are brought to the wrong building, or a researcher will change labs and needs to bring certain materials over to another building. In these instances so far our Facilities Dept. has been transporting the chemicals in an (unplacarded) comapany van, over city streets but not on the highway. The chemicals are usually solvents (MeCl2, acetonitrile, acetone, etc.) and are usually in single 4L bottles or a case or two of four 4L bottles. Does anyone know if this is legal? Are there certain packaging procedures we should follow for single bottles? Is it ever acceptable to transport previously opened bottles? How much do you need to transport before you must be registered and have placards? I would appreciate being directed to the appropriate sections of 49 CFR or relevant California codes. Thanks, Roneet --------------F45F8CE90FBB5BFBAC0854FC Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Roneet Levy Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Roneet Levy n: Levy;Roneet org: Miravant Medical Technologies email;internet: rlevy@miravant.com title: Health and Safety Coordinator note: (805) 685-9880 x3397 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------F45F8CE90FBB5BFBAC0854FC-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:21:05 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Debbie Decker Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I had replied to Doug directly but it occurs to me that the message might have wider application. Deb. >At 10:55 AM 10/6/99 -0400, you wrote: >>Hi listers, >>Does anyone have a protocol for using hydrofluoric in a laboraotry >>setting. I have already acquired a tube of calcium gluconate to give to >>the PI fro this lab, but I want to make sure that his protocol is as >>safe as possible. By the way, the PI plans to use it to digest coal >>samples. Any help is greatly appreciated. >> >>Doug Alexander >>EHSO >>Old Dominion University > >Dear Doug: >Check out our website at http://ehs.ucdavis.edu. Click on "SafetyNets" and search for #70 - it's specific for HF use. > >Nasty stuff - calcium gluconate cream is a great first step. Talking with your potential emergency medical responders is a good idea too. Also, a chat with your PI about the dangers may cause that person to consider using something less nasty. What percentage concentration will the PI be using? Hopefully, it will be the dilute solution. If the PI plans to dilute the HF himself, try to convince him to buy it already diluted. Less risk, fer shure! > >Any questions? Feel free to give me a buzz back - I worked with a geologist who used HF to digest rocks to view fossilized bacteria. Cool project . And not a single exposure in 3 years of work. > >Good luck, >Debbie > > > Debbie M. Decker, Health and Safety Specialist Environmental Health and Safety University of California, Davis 1 Shields Ave. Davis, CA 95616 (530)754-7964 (530)752-1493 dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:22:47 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Jeffery S. Stewart" Organization: Morehead State University Subject: Re: Chemical Transport MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------968445E1FF6230109ACA2E8E" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------968445E1FF6230109ACA2E8E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roneet: The regulations you need are located at 49 CFR Part 171 (Gen info, regs and definitions), Part 172 (Placarding), and Part 173 (Shippers). The definition section in Part 171 will clarify bulk from non-bulk materials related to quantities needed placarding. I believe it is 1,000# or less you don't have to placard, 1,001# and up you do. But, don't quote me on that. The actual placard info is located in 172. Hope this helps you out. Jeff Roneet Levy wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm a new member to the list and I've already found it very > informative. I'm hoping some of you will be able to share any > experience with the following issue: > > The company I work for has two research facilities about two miles > apart. Sometimes chemical deliveries are brought to the wrong building, > or a researcher will change labs and needs to bring certain materials > over to another building. In these instances so far our Facilities > Dept. has been transporting the chemicals in an (unplacarded) comapany > van, over city streets but not on the highway. The chemicals are > usually solvents (MeCl2, acetonitrile, acetone, etc.) and are usually in > single 4L bottles or a case or two of four 4L bottles. > > Does anyone know if this is legal? Are there certain packaging > procedures we should follow for single bottles? Is it ever acceptable > to transport previously opened bottles? How much do you need to > transport before you must be registered and have placards? I would > appreciate being directed to the appropriate sections of 49 CFR or > relevant California codes. > > Thanks, > > Roneet --------------968445E1FF6230109ACA2E8E Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="j.stewart.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Jeffery S. Stewart Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="j.stewart.vcf" begin:vcard n:Stewart;Jeffery tel;fax:606-783-2359 tel;work:606-783-2179 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Morehead State University;Environmental Health & Safety version:2.1 email;internet:j.stewart@morehead-st.edu title:Env. Health & Safety Coordinator/RSO/Industrial Hygienist adr;quoted-printable:;;213 Downing Hall=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A;Morehead;Kentucky;40351; x-mozilla-cpt:;4064 fn:Jeffery S. Stewart end:vcard --------------968445E1FF6230109ACA2E8E-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:22:44 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Andrew Cooper Subject: Re: Chemical Transport MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" You all have been so helpful lately I thought it was time for me to offer up some information. Be forewarned, this might not apply to your organization. Note Jeff's comments below for placarding, but don't forget that placarding is automatic if you are transporting an applicable concentration of a poison by inhalation hazard (e.g., hydrogen fluoride, etc.). See 49 CFR. Observe a little known, but very helpful exception (49 CFR 173.6)to transporting hazardous materials, if you meet the definition. The following information was an excerpt from a memo for a commercial business: On January 8, 1997, the Department of Transportation (DOT) published its final rulemaking on "Materials of Trade" (MOTS), which provides substantial relief from the HAZMAT regulations. The purpose of this rulemaking is to provide relief from the hazardous materials regulations for private companies not in the transportation business that are transporting small quantities of hazardous materials in direct support of their principal business. The rulemaking is targeted primarily for small business, such as farmers, welders, plumbers, lawn service companies. However, a company such as XXXX that transports HAZMAT as only a small component of its normal day-to-day business would be included. Table 1 presents individual packaging limits by hazardous material class for the materials of trade exception. For quantities of hazardous materials meeting these packaging limits, the materials of trade exception applies to a gross weight up to 440 pounds (200 kg). Hazardous materials above this limit (up to 1,000 lb) must be prepared in accordance with the hazardous material regulations. Packaging requirements are as follows: C Liquids and gases must be contained in leak-tight packages. Solids must be contained in sift-proof packages. All packages must be securely closed, secured against movement, and protected against damage. C Materials must be packaged in the manufacturer's original packaging or in packaging of equal or greater strength and integrity. C If materials contained in bottles or cans are secured against movement inside boxes, bins, or compartments, no outer packagings are required. C Cylinders must meet required cylinder specifications. Manifolding is allowed if valves are tightly closed. Marking requirements are as follows: C Packages must be marked with the common name or the proper shipping name. "RQ" must be marked if the package contains a hazardous substance in a Reportable Quantity. C DOT specification cylinders must be marked and labeled as required. Driver awareness The driver must be informed of the presence of the hazardous material onboard the vehicle, informed if he/she is transporting a hazardous substance in a reportable quantity, and aware of the requirements of the materials of trade requirements found in 49 CFR 173.6. Table 1. Individual Packaging Limits by Hazardous Material Class Class or Division Name Individual Package Limits for Shipping as Material of Trade Class 1 Explosives Cannot be shipped as a Material of Trade! Division 2.3 Toxic Gas Class 7 Radioactive Division 2.1 Division 2.2 Flammable Gas Non-Flammable/ Non-Toxic Gas 220 lb (100 kg) maximum gross weight of each cylinder Class 3 Flammable Liquid Packing Group I: < 1 pound (0.5 kg) or 1 pint (0.5 L) Packing Group II: < 66 pounds (30 kg) or 8 gallons (30L). Division 4.1 Flammable Solids Division 5.1 Oxidizers Division 6.1 Toxic Class 8 Corrosive Class 9 Miscellaneous ORM-D Consumer Commodity Division 4.3 Dangerous When Wet Packing Group I: Cannot be shipped as a Material of Trade! Packing Group II or III: Gross capacity of packaging < 30 ml (1 oz) Class 9 (applies to hazardous substances) Miscellaneous < 1500 L (400 gallons) for a diluted mixture, < 2% concentration of the Class 9 material Relief from the regulations include: C Materials must be packaged in the manufacturer's original packaging, or packaging of equivalent strength and integrity. C Packagings must be leak-tight for liquids or gases, sift-proof for solids, securely closed, secured against movement, and protected against damage. C Outer packagings are not required for a can or bottle that is secured against movement in a bin, cart, cage, box, or compartment. C No hazardous material paperwork or labeling is required. C The common name or the proper shipping name must be marked on each package. C Although training is not expressly required, the vehicle driver must be aware that materials of trade are being transported and aware of the applicable requirements. C The aggregate gross weight of all materials of trade onboard a single vehicle cannot exceed 440 pounds. C Materials of trade can be transported on a vehicle along with other hazardous materials. A few advantages of this rulemaking include: 1. Minimal HAZMAT requirements for personnel transporting HAZMAT between office locations. 2. Field personnel transporting HAZMAT--such as bottles of solvent, preservatives, reagents, along with several cylinders of compressed gas--will receive relief from the HAZMAT regulations so long as the total aggregate weight of the HAZMAT does not exceed 440 lb. . 3. Field personnel will receive relief from the HAZMAT regulations when transporting up to 440 pounds of hazardous materials onboard a vehicle. Any additional hazardous materials over this amount must be packaged, labeled, and documented as hazardous materials. 4. Minimal HAZMAT requirements for Health & Safety personnel transporting SCBA cylinders offsite to be refilled Andy -----Original Message----- From: Jeffery S. Stewart [mailto:j.stewart@MOREHEAD-ST.EDU] Sent: October 06, 1999 1:23 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Chemical Transport Roneet: The regulations you need are located at 49 CFR Part 171 (Gen info, regs and definitions), Part 172 (Placarding), and Part 173 (Shippers). The definition section in Part 171 will clarify bulk from non-bulk materials related to quantities needed placarding. I believe it is 1,000# or less you don't have to placard, 1,001# and up you do. But, don't quote me on that. The actual placard info is located in 172. Hope this helps you out. Jeff Roneet Levy wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm a new member to the list and I've already found it very > informative. I'm hoping some of you will be able to share any > experience with the following issue: > > The company I work for has two research facilities about two miles > apart. Sometimes chemical deliveries are brought to the wrong building, > or a researcher will change labs and needs to bring certain materials > over to another building. In these instances so far our Facilities > Dept. has been transporting the chemicals in an (unplacarded) comapany > van, over city streets but not on the highway. The chemicals are > usually solvents (MeCl2, acetonitrile, acetone, etc.) and are usually in > single 4L bottles or a case or two of four 4L bottles. > > Does anyone know if this is legal? Are there certain packaging > procedures we should follow for single bottles? Is it ever acceptable > to transport previously opened bottles? How much do you need to > transport before you must be registered and have placards? I would > appreciate being directed to the appropriate sections of 49 CFR or > relevant California codes. > > Thanks, > > Roneet ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:49:30 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Mccullough, Melissa" Subject: Re: Chemical Transport MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain As far as I know- it is against DOT regulations. As silly as it may seem to us- their rules apply to ANY public way. Although, I just re-read the definitions in 49 CFR 170 and it only mentions highway. When a few hospitals in this area wanted to transport just IN this area, they had to have a DOT trained and properly placarded vehicle to tranport the hazardous materials. > -----Original Message----- > From: Roneet Levy [SMTP:rlevy@MIRAVANT.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 12:52 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu > Subject: Chemical Transport > > Hello all, > > I'm a new member to the list and I've already found it very > informative. I'm hoping some of you will be able to share any > experience with the following issue: > > The company I work for has two research facilities about two miles > apart. Sometimes chemical deliveries are brought to the wrong building, > or a researcher will change labs and needs to bring certain materials > over to another building. In these instances so far our Facilities > Dept. has been transporting the chemicals in an (unplacarded) comapany > van, over city streets but not on the highway. The chemicals are > usually solvents (MeCl2, acetonitrile, acetone, etc.) and are usually in > single 4L bottles or a case or two of four 4L bottles. > > Does anyone know if this is legal? Are there certain packaging > procedures we should follow for single bottles? Is it ever acceptable > to transport previously opened bottles? How much do you need to > transport before you must be registered and have placards? I would > appreciate being directed to the appropriate sections of 49 CFR or > relevant California codes. > > Thanks, > > Roneet << File: Card for Roneet Levy >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:58:43 +1300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Tony Haggerty Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just to confirm Debbie's stance on HF, there was a fatality at a Geology lab in Australia about 3 years ago following a spill of HF onto a person. It was a small 2 man operation adjacent to one of the partners house in a remote area. They had a "protocol" that said they would not use HF without both of them being present but human nature being what it is one of them used and spilt HF on himself while the other was away. He ran from the lab and jumped into the family pool. The other partner's wife was at home and she immediately called an ambulance simply stating that someone had been burnt with Hydrofluoric Acid. At about the same time the Ambulance control received another call to a Vehicle accident. Not understanding the implications of HF burns and probably thinking that the acid is well washed off, they directed their one ambulance to deal with the accident and they arrived at the lab some 45 minutes later. The patient was in severe pain and died some two weeks later. In requesting Emergency Service help it is probable that the lady just said the words "Hydrofluoric Acid". they not being familiar with it would probably have heard it as "Hydrochloric Acid" and not been concerned. If you think this is a bit far fetched, I have a training video I use which involves a spill of HF which the actors talk about. It doesn't get into medical treatments as it is aimed at incident management. When I stop the clip, I ask what the acid was and the strike rate is about 98.5% for HCl. We then go into the use of UN Numbers for identification and the need to spell chemical names, phonetically if possible. My talks are often aimed at truck drivers and plant operators so their level of understanding is not great but I would suggest that spelling of names can save confusion in emergencies. As a footnote, I had a very minor burn from HF 38 years ago. It was a reaction by-product and I spilled a little on a finger. It was quite dilute and most washed off quite rapidly. Unfortunately some stuck under a nail and once it started to burn, it was sore for 3 days. I knew little about HF in those days and put up with the discomfort. Now every time I relate the story I'm sure I get a ghost pain!! Tony Haggerty NZFS Haz Subs Adviser ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:14:29 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Don Abramowitz Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Debbie's Safety net series is quite impressive on HF and other subjects. As long as we're on the HF thread, has anyone encountered a specification for a fume hood for use with HF? We are about to replace or upgrade a hood which has had its glass sash and light cover opaquely etched by HF vapor in a Geology lab (a tough place to find a substitute for HF). I've found bits and pieces on this, such as a recommendation for polycarbonate glazing instead of glass, but I'm hoping for specifics about interiors, hardware, duct, and blower materials. Please direct me if you know of something; no need to lay out the details here. Thanks, Don ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Donald Abramowitz, CIH Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College 101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue Bryn Mawr PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081 (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:35:27 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: CHOs and CHPs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-10-05 18:45:22 EDT, you write: Q. How is a CHO assigned? A. The employer needs to hire someone using their normal hiring practices for either full or parttime employees. Or, additional duties for an existing employee. Q. Can the CHO be a member of the Safety Department? A. Yes. Q. Who is supposed to appoint the CHO? A. The employer.Are there specific rules? Q. What is the best written source to help me translate the CFR? A. Reading example of CHPs on the Web or my collection of over 50 of them. Jim Kaufman ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, Director The Laboratory Safety Workshop Safety in Science Education 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 Cell: 508-574-6264 Email: labsafe@aol.com Web Site: http://www.labsafety.org/ ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:35:26 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Custodians in Labs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi NACHOs, Here are a few messages from the SAFETY list discussing custodians in labs. I thought this might be of interest to our members. .... Jim Kaufman Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 07:36:56 -0500 From: Michael Parsons Subject: Re: Custodians in Laboratories On 4 Oct 99, at 15:21, SAFETY approval account wrote: > Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 13:14:47 -0600 > From: Richard Porter > Organization: Colorado School of Mines > Subject: Custodians in Laboratories > > Our Plant Facilities Dept. has asked us to develop a policy to limit custodial > services (sweeping, mopping, emptying trash, dusting, waxing floors > etc.) in such a > way as to protect custodians from hazards that they may be unaware of > when working > in laboratories. This must be a very common issue. I would appreciate any > About 8 or nine years ago we had an incident involving a custodian mistaking boxed chemicals for trash and removing them from the lab and throwing them in a dumpster. After having to clean this dumpster out, we developed a policy of no custodians or maintenance workers in chemical, biological, or radioactive materials labs unless asked by lab personnel. Lab personnel are responsible for putting there trash just outside their door when they want it removed. If they wish the floors cleaned, they must insure that is safe for custodians to enter. This is usually done during the day but they may also request that it be done after hours as long they know it is safe for the custodian to enter. The same holds true for maintenance workers except this is almost always done during normal "business" hours. The doors to all radioactive materials labs are coded so that all maintenance, custodial, and police personnel know that that door opens into a lab containing radioactive materials. This is a very simple system that has worked well for rad materials labs. We also developed a simple sign to indicate that custodians and maintenance workers must have permission to enter a lab where their access is restricted. This is a sign with broom in a circle with a slash across it and a ladder in a circle with slash. This gets the point across simply and effectively. Hope this helps. Michael Michael S. Parsons, CHMM Mississippi State University, Hazardous Waste Officer Environmental Safety Office 302 Bowen Hall - Mail Stop 9563 P.O. Drawer 6223 Mississippi State, MS 39762 (662) 325-8543 Fax: (662) 325-8776 michael@ra.msstate.edu --------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:33:36 -0400 From: Jennifer Hayes Subject: Re: Custodians in Laboratories Mr. Porter- Our laboratories have a very similar policy as the one described below. Our custodial/maintenance staff is allowed to enter most labs. (any labs. that off-limits are clearly marked.) The staff is only allowed to discard whatever is in the waste cans, but they do not touch or remove anything else. Any packages, boxes, bags, etc. that do not fit in a waste can gets placed outside of the lab, by the door, at the end of the work day. All maintenance work, including cleaning the floors, is by request only, and it is the lab.'s responsibility to be sure there is nothing hazardous left out or on the floor. (Often we do our own sweeping, but washing and waxing happens occasionally.) Of course, this still leaves a lot of responsibility with the workers in the lab. They need to be fully informed and aware that nothing unsafe, whether it be chemically or physically hazardous, should go in the waste cans cans ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:25:32 PDT From: Andrea Jones Subject: Re: Custodians in Laboratories ...Or a discrepancy sends someone to retrieve an item from a landfill. Our custodial employees are contracted. Their hazcom training is provided by their employer. They are trained in contractor safety for our facility, which includes hazard types, locations, recognition of signs, etc. In our office suites, they will only take trash from a recognized receptacle. They are trained to not pick up loose "trash-appearing" items unless they are CLEARLY marked trash. As for labs, the same applies. They will come to do floors etc., but only after I submit a work order. This work order notifies their supervisor that they are entering a more hazardous area. It also allows myself and my colleagues to regroup, and reorganize since they will not move items in the lab. They will sweep and mop only the uncovered floor. Interestingly, this lab is used by IHs and by radiation physicists. I don't know...um...squat about rad regs, so I checked with a rep for our RSO, who felt that no provisions were violated by allowing these folks in unescorted. Disclaimers as usual, since I haven't mentioned that lately, Andrea Jones Glaxo Wellcome Inc. >From: "Wolff, David" >Reply-To: Safety >To: SAFETY@LIST.UVM.EDU >Subject: Re: Custodians in Laboratories >Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:15:57 -0500 > >Richard: > >My advice is to tell the custodians not to toss radionuclides into the >trash. Especially if the trash is taken to a refuse-derived-fuel >generating >plant. And especially if the state regulators decide that a small amount >of >"lost" material warrants shutting down the RDF facility for several days in >a futile attempt to locate the tiny container in mountains of trash - >costing the taxpayers a bundle. > >David Wolff ---------------------------------------- ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, Director The Laboratory Safety Workshop Safety in Science Education 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 Cell: 508-574-6264 Email: labsafe@aol.com Web Site: http://www.labsafety.org/ ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:04:00 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "J. Scott Walker" Subject: Re: Chemical Transport In-Reply-To: <37FB7E43.D3995CD3@miravant.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You'll want to start by reviewing 49 CFR 171 and following. The US DOT web site, Research and Special Project Administration, has a lot of reference to help your inquiry. Regards, Scott At 09:52 AM 10/6/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hello all, > >I'm a new member to the list and I've already found it very >informative. I'm hoping some of you will be able to share any >experience with the following issue: > >The company I work for has two research facilities about two miles >apart. Sometimes chemical deliveries are brought to the wrong building, >or a researcher will change labs and needs to bring certain materials >over to another building. In these instances so far our Facilities >Dept. has been transporting the chemicals in an (unplacarded) comapany >van, over city streets but not on the highway. The chemicals are >usually solvents (MeCl2, acetonitrile, acetone, etc.) and are usually in >single 4L bottles or a case or two of four 4L bottles. > >Does anyone know if this is legal? Are there certain packaging >procedures we should follow for single bottles? Is it ever acceptable >to transport previously opened bottles? How much do you need to >transport before you must be registered and have placards? I would >appreciate being directed to the appropriate sections of 49 CFR or >relevant California codes. > >Thanks, > >Roneet > >Attachment Converted: "C:\PROGRAM FILES\EUDORA\Attach\vcard.vcf" > J. Scott Walker Environmental Engineer LexaLite International Corporation Dickson, TN 37055 jscottw@licdxn.com 615.441.6274 Phone 615.446.3007 Fax ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:22:19 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Rama Singh Subject: CONTAMINATION OF HOUSE VACUUM LINES Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Has anyone done anything special to keep their house vacuum pump clean and operating without chemical contamination? This is in a building which serves lots of chemists involved with all kinds of volatiles and organic compounds. Naturally cold traps should be in place before accessing house vacuum lines but this is not enough, it appears. I am wondering if anyone has done anything different like setting up central cold trap next to the pump or manipulation of vacuum pressure or anything else to keep pumps as well as the chemists happy. Is there anyone out there who has done anything special or different to solve this problem? Thanks for sharing your experience. Rama Singh ---- Rama Singh Safety Coordinator The School of Physical Sciences Phone: 949-824-2518 Fax: 949-824-3891 Pager: 949-262-6710 e-mail:rpsingh@uci.edu ZOT CODE 4675 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:40:19 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: CHO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-10-06 09:57:19 EDT, you write: << Read the Prudent Practices book - it retails for about $60 (I think), and is the single best overall safety book I've found to date. Then re-read it. Keep it at your desk. >> Good Advice. The list price is $69.95. The LSW web site special offer this month at $56. WOW. Another book that I would highly recommend is the catalog from Lab Safety Supply in Janesville, WI (www.labsafety.com). It's hundreds of pages of safety products and some discussion of their application. Reading it cover to cover will fill you with ideas about tools you can use to solve problems. And, it's free! (Note... This is not LSW) .... Jim ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:03:45 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Neal Langerman Subject: CALL FOR SEMICONDUCTOR SAFETY PAPERS Comments: To: occ-env-med-l@list.mc.duke.edu Comments: cc: frazzle@almaden.ibm.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" this is posted for a colleague:

We are organizing a session on "Chemical Safety Issues in the Semiconductor
Industry" for the Spring American Chemical Society (ACS) meeting in San
Francisco. The session will be on Sunday, Monday, or Tuesday, March 26, 27 or
28, 2000. The Semiconductor Industry is the theme for the ACS meeting, and this
should be quite an interesting meeting overall. We look forward to a very
stimulating and educational session.

Abstracts must be submitted electronically no later than 10/22 at the ACS web
site: http://acs.confex.com/acs/219nm/chas/papers/index.cgi
OR It can be reached via the CHAS site: http://chas.cehs.siu.edu/

We welcome your participation and ideas. More information can be requested from
Janice Frazier (frazzle@almaden.ibm.com), phone (408) 256-4931.
Janice Frazier, Manager Wafer Test and Yield , SSD, Office Bldg. 14-2 225A;
Phone tieline 276-4931; external (408) 256-4931 pager (408) 542-6270

******************************************************************
NEAL LANGERMAN
Advanced Chemical Safety
8909 Complex Dr. Ste C
San Diego CA 92123
(858) 874 5577  (858) 874 8239 (FAX)
My telephone will forward to my cell phone and then my voice mail. 

"Your Single Source for Preventing Safety, Health and
Environmental Insults!"


**********************************************************************
========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:43:46 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Terry Ludwig Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/06/1999 11:12:35 AM US Mountain Standard Time, dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU writes: << Talking with your potential emergency medical responders is a good idea too. >> Funny you should mention that. I produced, analyzed, and packaged (drums, mostly) 49% HF for close to 20 years. You can amass lots of anecdotes and horror stories in that amount of time. One that is apropos to your advice is : I had occasion to check myself into the nearby hospital for potential HF burns on my hands and arms. They looked "Hydrofluoric" up in their books and couldn't find anything. So they decided to treat me for the closest thing. In this case, they decided "closest" was *Hydrochloric" acid burns. Heck, the two words almost rhyme. "No," said I (I'm a chemist by trade), "they're vastly different in nature. The treatments will therefore be quite different'" This was met by a look of "I'm the doctor, not you, sonny" and they proceeded to have me soak my hands and arms in a saline solution for 30 minutes, after which they applied some salve and some gauze and sent me home for the night. In this particular case, I knew I really had not been exposed to HF acid (insert a separate long anecdote about city workers mistakenly turning off a water main here), so no harm came to me. And the hospital's ignorance of HF burns has long since been addressed and eliminated. But if I really had been burned by HF...... Terry Ludwig Tessenderlo Kerley, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:11:13 +1300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Tony Haggerty Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Terry If it had been HF, believe me , you would have known it. But your point is taken. In my experience very few GP doctors have any knowledge of Industrial Hygiene much less the chemistry associated. I have had calls from hospital doctors who wanted to know what they should be treating for after sending people to hospital following chemical exposure. And I am but a humble chemist!! Cheers Tony ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:50:59 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Tayman, Tammy" Subject: Re: CONTAMINATION OF HOUSE VACUUM LINES MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" We have a central cold trap in line just before the pump. However, it is housed in another room, so that when we empty it, fumes still can't get near the pump. The trap is by FTS Systems and goes down to -92C. Tammy Tayman -----Original Message----- From: Rama Singh [mailto:rpsingh@UCI.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 9:22 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: CONTAMINATION OF HOUSE VACUUM LINES Has anyone done anything special to keep their house vacuum pump clean and operating without chemical contamination? This is in a building which serves lots of chemists involved with all kinds of volatiles and organic compounds. Naturally cold traps should be in place before accessing house vacuum lines but this is not enough, it appears. I am wondering if anyone has done anything different like setting up central cold trap next to the pump or manipulation of vacuum pressure or anything else to keep pumps as well as the chemists happy. Is there anyone out there who has done anything special or different to solve this problem? Thanks for sharing your experience. Rama Singh ---- Rama Singh Safety Coordinator The School of Physical Sciences Phone: 949-824-2518 Fax: 949-824-3891 Pager: 949-262-6710 e-mail:rpsingh@uci.edu ZOT CODE 4675 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:01:41 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Tayman, Tammy" Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I've been told that it is always a good idea to send the MSDS along to the hospital with an exposure victim. I happen to be another who can attest to how true that is. A few years ago I had bromine spilled over one of my hands. (Stupid, I know. Wrong gloves, too busy, in a hurry...) I called ahead to the doctor and headed on over. When I got there they rushed me back and the doctor rushed in. She asked what happened and I proceded to explain about the bromine exposure, flushing with water, flushing with sodium thiosulfate solution, and arriving at my present location. She pursed her lips, nodded, said "I see" and then started scribbling. She then paused. looked up and asked me "Bromine, that would be b-r-o-m-e-n...???" At that point I knew I was in trouble. Tammy Tayman -----Original Message----- From: Tony Haggerty [mailto:techton@IHUG.CO.NZ] Terry If it had been HF, believe me , you would have known it. But your point is taken. In my experience very few GP doctors have any knowledge of Industrial Hygiene much less the chemistry associated. I have had calls from hospital doctors who wanted to know what they should be treating for after sending people to hospital following chemical exposure. And I am but a humble chemist!! Cheers Tony ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:06:46 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Robert Burns Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" another horror story: Many years ago my lab technician inhaled some phosgene. the local hospital ER had a copy of Sax- we bought it for them. when I took the guy in, with O2, the doctor and nurse had no idea of what to do. I referred them to Sax- and found it for them in the nurses station. then they started looking for phosgene under "F"!!!! I had hoped things had gotten better in the last 25 years, but apparently not! "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 Fax 815 333 4805 -----Original Message----- From: Tayman, Tammy [mailto:ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 9:02 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! I've been told that it is always a good idea to send the MSDS along to the hospital with an exposure victim. I happen to be another who can attest to how true that is. A few years ago I had bromine spilled over one of my hands. (Stupid, I know. Wrong gloves, too busy, in a hurry...) I called ahead to the doctor and headed on over. When I got there they rushed me back and the doctor rushed in. She asked what happened and I proceded to explain about the bromine exposure, flushing with water, flushing with sodium thiosulfate solution, and arriving at my present location. She pursed her lips, nodded, said "I see" and then started scribbling. She then paused. looked up and asked me "Bromine, that would be b-r-o-m-e-n...???" At that point I knew I was in trouble. Tammy Tayman -----Original Message----- From: Tony Haggerty [mailto:techton@IHUG.CO.NZ] Terry If it had been HF, believe me , you would have known it. But your point is taken. In my experience very few GP doctors have any knowledge of Industrial Hygiene much less the chemistry associated. I have had calls from hospital doctors who wanted to know what they should be treating for after sending people to hospital following chemical exposure. And I am but a humble chemist!! Cheers Tony ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:42:38 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Andrew Cooper Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" For those of you who have not done this...as part of your health and safety planning, you should contact your local hospital(s) and let them know what potential hazards you have on-site to ensure that they have the capability to respond to the worse case scenarios. This should include HF exposure. You can see with all the e-mails that not all hospitals are prepared for such diagnosis or treatment. However, there are some excellent facilities out there that are prepared to treat the most horrible and complex injuries/illnesses. Once you have identified an appropriate treatment center, write all the particulars into your health and safety plan. Include a map and directions to the location. There's a pretty good article in the April, 1996 Discover magazine that discusses HF exposure. It discusses the science behind the horror. Andy -----Original Message----- From: Robert Burns [mailto:RBURNS@RUETGERS-ORGANICS-CORP.COM] Sent: October 07, 1999 8:07 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! another horror story: Many years ago my lab technician inhaled some phosgene. the local hospital ER had a copy of Sax- we bought it for them. when I took the guy in, with O2, the doctor and nurse had no idea of what to do. I referred them to Sax- and found it for them in the nurses station. then they started looking for phosgene under "F"!!!! I had hoped things had gotten better in the last 25 years, but apparently not! "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 Fax 815 333 4805 -----Original Message----- From: Tayman, Tammy [mailto:ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 9:02 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! I've been told that it is always a good idea to send the MSDS along to the hospital with an exposure victim. I happen to be another who can attest to how true that is. A few years ago I had bromine spilled over one of my hands. (Stupid, I know. Wrong gloves, too busy, in a hurry...) I called ahead to the doctor and headed on over. When I got there they rushed me back and the doctor rushed in. She asked what happened and I proceded to explain about the bromine exposure, flushing with water, flushing with sodium thiosulfate solution, and arriving at my present location. She pursed her lips, nodded, said "I see" and then started scribbling. She then paused. looked up and asked me "Bromine, that would be b-r-o-m-e-n...???" At that point I knew I was in trouble. Tammy Tayman -----Original Message----- From: Tony Haggerty [mailto:techton@IHUG.CO.NZ] Terry If it had been HF, believe me , you would have known it. But your point is taken. In my experience very few GP doctors have any knowledge of Industrial Hygiene much less the chemistry associated. I have had calls from hospital doctors who wanted to know what they should be treating for after sending people to hospital following chemical exposure. And I am but a humble chemist!! Cheers Tony ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:46:44 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mark Yanchisin Subject: Re: CONTAMINATION OF HOUSE VACUUM LINES MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Greetings! We also strongly recommend (but do not require at this point) the use of hydrophobic filters inline filters before the vacuum outlet or pump during chemical or non-biological procedures. These are required by the BBP Standard for use with pathogens and are required here for biological procedures. These filters close when they get wet so no liquid can get into the system. Not to advertise the brands, but we have used Whatman Vacu-Guard and Gelman Vacushield. I am sure there are other brands out there too. Mark Yanchisin Coordinator for Clinical and Lab Safety Programs University of Florida Env. Health and Safety PO Box 112195 Building 104 Gainesville, FL 32611-2195 352-392-1591 (T) 352-392-3414 (F) Mark@ehs.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:56:40 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mark Yanchisin Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Greetings! Another good group to use is the local Poison Control Center. I have worked with them and they have great references they can pull up and fax almost immediately. We had a minor HF exposure and they had info to the ER within minutes. They since have sent info on themselves and HF and other real nasty stuff to the local hospitals. I'm sure some of this was self advertising, but... (I was told they had hit some resistance from ER docs who thought they knew it all- but reading other emails on this thread, we know they don't!) Anyways- the North FL PCC has become a good ally to have! Mark Yanchisin Coordinator for Clinical and Lab Safety Programs University of Florida Env. Health and Safety PO Box 112195 Building 104 Gainesville, FL 32611-2195 352-392-1591 (T) 352-392-3414 (F) Mark@ehs.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:22:05 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tony's comment reminds me of way back when I was night supv. in a clinical toxicology lab. We serviced over 2 dozen hospitals. I got calls all the time from ER's wanting results from samples that hadn't arrived yet. I often found myself on the phone with frazzled residents explaining metabolic pathways, breakdown products and half life. I didn't start knowing this; we had a darn good reference book, and a phone near our primary GLC. Any positive could not be reported until we had a confirmatory test by a different methodology, e.g. GLC and uv. As for HF, I think we handled it with more respect when the only bottle it came in were made of beeswax, and you opened it with a hot ice pick, and sealed it with a hot spatula. Mary Ann At 09:01 AM 10/7/99 -0400, you wrote: >I've been told that it is always a good idea to send the MSDS along to the >hospital with an exposure victim. I happen to be another who can attest to >how true that is. A few years ago I had bromine spilled over one of my >hands. (Stupid, I know. Wrong gloves, too busy, in a hurry...) I called >ahead to the doctor and headed on over. When I got there they rushed me >back and the doctor rushed in. She asked what happened and I proceded to >explain about the bromine exposure, flushing with water, flushing with >sodium thiosulfate solution, and arriving at my present location. She >pursed her lips, nodded, said "I see" and then started scribbling. She then >paused. looked up and asked me "Bromine, that would be b-r-o-m-e-n...???" >At that point I knew I was in trouble. > >Tammy Tayman > >-----Original Message----- >From: Tony Haggerty [mailto:techton@IHUG.CO.NZ] > > >Terry >If it had been HF, believe me , you would have known it. >But your point is taken. In my experience very few GP doctors have any >knowledge of Industrial Hygiene much less the chemistry associated. I have >had calls from hospital doctors who wanted to know what they should be >treating for after sending people to hospital following chemical exposure. >And I am but a humble chemist!! >Cheers >Tony > Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority Past Chair, DivCHAS, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:52:05 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Thomas J. Shelley" Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1272807368==_ma============" --============_-1272807368==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Hi listers, >Does anyone have a protocol for using hydrofluoric in a laboraotry >setting. I have already acquired a tube of calcium gluconate to give to >the PI fro this lab, but I want to make sure that his protocol is as >safe as possible. By the way, the PI plans to use it to digest coal >samples. Any help is greatly appreciated. Dear Doug and Colleagues--Attached below is the protocol for the use of HF (as hydrofluoric acid) which I have developed for labs at Cornell. This is sent to the labs as a "kit" with various other documents that are referred to in the protocol but which are not included in this e-mail. Please feel free to adapt this information for your own use if it is appropriate for your institution. Tom Shelley Establishing a Hydrofluoric Acid Use Area in a Lab Hydrofluoric acid (HF) is one of the most hazardous chemicals in use in labs at Cornell. It is widely used in semiconductor work, earth sciences, for sample preparation in analytical labs and other specialized applications. The OSHA Lab Standard requires, in Section (e)(3)(viii), "Provisions for additional employee protection for work with particularly hazardous substances." To meet the Lab Standard requirements you have received an assortment of materials designed to implement safe work practices and meet compliance with the Lab Standard for using HF in your lab. The following instructions will facilitate the establishment of an HF use are in your lab using the enclosed materials: 1) A standard operating procedure (SOP) for the use of HF in your lab needs to be written. This is mandated by the Laboratory Standard. A blank SOP form has been supplied. It must be filled out in as much detail as possible. If you want to create your own document, this is acceptable as long as all of the requested information is provided. The written SOP must be posted next to the area where the HF is used, preferably laminated or in a binder of some kind. (Please forward me a copy of your HF SOP for my review.) 2) I have supplied a good quality MSDS for HF. Everyone using HF is required to read and understand the MSDS. 3) HF may only be used in a properly working fume hood. (All benchtop use of HF is disallowed.) The "danger" sign provided must be posted in a prominent position on the front of the hood where HF is used. (I would suggest that the danger sign be laminated and taped to the hood to allow it to last longer.) In addition, the following points must be observed: a) The area in the hood where HF is used must be taped-off with a good grade of permanent tape to designate the use area. b) The area of the floor immediately in front of the HF use area must be taped-off. This means a rectangle, with the HF use area of the hood as one side of the rectangle, extending at least three feet from the hood must be defined with a highly visible tape which will stay stuck to the floor with normal use and maintenance. Only those individuals meeting the requirements for HF use may enter the taped-off area when HF is in active use. c) A sturdy plastic tray with at least a 1/2 inch lip be must used as containment for all operations with HF to prevent the deck of the fume hood from being damaged or stained in the event of an HF spill. d) Containers of HF should never be left open or the fumes will etch the glass of the hood sash causing it to cloud over. If a fume hood is used heavily or continuously for processes involving HF it my be neccessary to replace the glass sash with polycarbonate plastic. e) Sodium carbonate or bicarbonate, commonly used to neutralize acid spills, should never be used to clean up HF spills. They will form aerosols with HF that make the cleanup process very dangerous. Powdered or finely granular calcium sulfate (commercial gypsum), calcium carbonate or calcium hydroxide are the best materials for neutralizing HF spills. HF combines with the Ca++ ion and is rendered insoluble as CaF2. f) Solutions of more than 20% HF should be properly labeled as hazardous waste and picked up for disposal by our hazardous waste managers. (Refer to Section 7 of the Cornell Chemical Hygiene Plan for proper waste disposal procedures.) For solutions of less than 20% HF, use the following procedure for disposal: Working in a fume hood, using the proper personal protective equipment (see below), add the HF solution to a plastic pail of cold water to a dilution of 1:10 acid to water. Add excess calcium hydroxide or calcium carbonate. Let the precipitate settle for 24 hours. Drain dispose of the resulting supernate with at least 50 times the volume of water. Allow the residue to dry and package for disposal as hazardous waste. 4) An HF label kit has been supplied. All containers of HF must be properly labeled and the per cent of HF must be designated on the container. The label supplied is designed to be used when HF is transferred from the original container to other containers, such as when dilutions of the full-strength acid are made. If you only use HF from the original container, the label won't be needed, but it is supplied in the event that dilutions of the acid are made. Instructions for the use of the label are included. 5) Three additional items are supplied. One from Allied Signal gives especially good information on the toxicology, first aid and medical treatment for HF. The Esso publication is the SOP used by Esso. It is oriented towards the geological use of HF, but some items may be useful for writing your own SOP. The e-mail dated 2/9/95 contains other especially useful information. 6) The HF user form must be filled out by all users of HF. It, or a copy, must be posted near the fume hood used for HF work. It is important that the supervisor, generally faculty at Cornell, confirm with their initials that each person signing the user form has had adequate training and/or has met all of the provisions of this document. 7) No one may work alone when using HF. A buddy system must be in place, even if the "buddy" is in an adjacent room. This is especially critical in the event of a spill or an exposure to HF. 8) Personal protective equipment (PPE) required for use of HF is as follows: a) All work with HF must be done only in a properly working fume hood. The sash must be as low as possible, preferably 6-10 inches from the hood deck. If you have any doubts about the functionality of the fume hood you select for HF work please feel free to contact us and we can test hood performance for you. b) Appropriate gloves. We recommend "Silver Shield" or "4-H" brand gloves with nitrile gloves over these. We can provide gloves to you at our cost along with training in their use. c) Splash goggles must be worn at all times HF is in use. d) If work can not be completed with the sash at the 6-10 inch height a face shield is reguired. e) In addition to a lab coat, a rubber apron and sleeve protectors are strongly recommended. f) As with all operations using corrosive materials exposed legs (shorts), open toed shoes (sandals) and canvas shoes are prohibited when using HF. g) Exercise caution with PPE and lab clothing used for HF work. Such items should be used only for HF work and not used in other areas of the lab or other lab operations. In the event that PPE or lab coats are contaminated with HF it could be spread to other items or surfaces in the lab. h) No eating or drinking is allowed in any lab at Cornell at any time, and especially when HF is in use. 9) First aid knowledge is very important with HF use. No one is allowed to use HF without having studied the required first aid response to a skin exposure to HF. The Allied Signal publication and the MSDS supplied give excellent first aid information. Calcium glauconate cream is applied topically for minor HF burns. Vivian Hsiao, an occupational nurse at Gannett Health Center (5-5156), can facilitate the first aid aspects of HF use, providing calcium glauconate cream and additional information. All HF burns must be reported to Gannett Health Center where the exposed individual will be given immediate medical attention. Hydrofluoric acid is one of the most dangerous research chemicals in use today. A spill of concentrated HF to the skin of 2% of the total body area is fatal! Please treat this material and its use with the greatest respect. There are now some alternative procedures to etch silicon that don't use concentrated HF. For example, there is an ammonium bifluoride preparation which may be used to etch silicon in some situations. Perhaps the literature of your decipline may have examples of other alternatives to the use of HF. Please feel free to contact me if you have any additional questions. Prepared by Tom Shelley, July, 1996. I may be reached at 255-4288 or tjs1@cornell.edu. ********************************************************* Tom Shelley, Chemical Hygiene Officer, Cornell University Department of Environmental Health and Safety, 125 Humphreys Service Building, Ithaca, NY 14853. (607) 255-4288 tjs1@cornell.edu --============_-1272807368==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" >Hi listers, >Does anyone have a protocol for using hydrofluoric in a laboraotry >setting. I have already acquired a tube of calcium gluconate to give to >the PI fro this lab, but I want to make sure that his protocol is as >safe as possible. By the way, the PI plans to use it to digest coal >samples. Any help is greatly appreciated. Dear Doug and Colleagues--Attached below is the protocol for the use of HF (as hydrofluoric acid) which I have developed for labs at Cornell. This is sent to the labs as a "kit" with various other documents that are referred to in the protocol but which are not included in this e-mail. Please feel free to adapt this information for your own use if it is appropriate for your institution. Tom Shelley GenevaEstablishing a Hydrofluoric Acid Use Area in a Lab GenevaHydrofluoric acid (HF) is one of the most hazardous chemicals in use in labs at Cornell. It is widely used in semiconductor work, earth sciences, for sample preparation in analytical labs and other specialized applications. The OSHA Lab Standard requires, in Section (e)(3)(viii), "Provisions for additional employee protection for work with particularly hazardous substances." To meet the Lab Standard requirements you have received an assortment of materials designed to implement safe work practices and meet compliance with the Lab Standard for using HF in your lab. The following instructions will facilitate the establishment of an HF use are in your lab using the enclosed materials: 1) A standard operating procedure (SOP) for the use of HF in your lab needs to be written. This is mandated by the Laboratory Standard. A blank SOP form has been supplied. It must be filled out in as much detail as possible. If you want to create your own document, this is acceptable as long as all of the requested information is provided. The written SOP must be posted next to the area where the HF is used, preferably laminated or in a binder of some kind. (Please forward me a copy of your HF SOP for my review.) 2) I have supplied a good quality MSDS for HF. Everyone using HF is required to read and understand the MSDS. 3) HF may only be used in a properly working fume hood. (All benchtop use of HF is disallowed.) The "danger" sign provided must be posted in a prominent position on the front of the hood where HF is used. (I would suggest that the danger sign be laminated and taped to the hood to allow it to last longer.) In addition, the following points must be observed: a) The area in the hood where HF is used must be taped-off with a good grade of permanent tape to designate the use area. b) The area of the floor immediately in front of the HF use area must be taped-off. This means a rectangle, with the HF use area of the hood as one side of the rectangle, extending at least three feet from the hood must be defined with a highly visible tape which will stay stuck to the floor with normal use and maintenance. Only those individuals meeting the requirements for HF use may enter the taped-off area when HF is in active use. c) A sturdy plastic tray with at least a 1/2 inch lip be must used as containment for all operations with HF to prevent the deck of the fume hood from being damaged or stained in the event of an HF spill. d) Containers of HF should never be left open or the fumes will etch the glass of the hood sash causing it to cloud over. If a fume hood is used heavily or continuously for processes involving HF it my be neccessary to replace the glass sash with polycarbonate plastic. e) Sodium carbonate or bicarbonate, commonly used to neutralize acid spills, should never be used to clean up HF spills. They will form aerosols with HF that make the cleanup process very dangerous. Powdered or finely granular calcium sulfate (commercial gypsum), calcium carbonate or calcium hydroxide are the best materials for neutralizing HF spills. HF combines with the Ca++ ion and is rendered insoluble as CaF2. f) Solutions of more than 20% HF should be properly labeled as hazardous waste and picked up for disposal by our hazardous waste managers. (Refer to Section 7 of the Cornell Chemical Hygiene Plan for proper waste disposal procedures.) For solutions of less than 20% HF, use the following procedure for disposal: Working in a fume hood, using the proper personal protective equipment (see below), add the HF solution to a plastic pail of cold water to a dilution of 1:10 acid to water. Add excess calcium hydroxide or calcium carbonate. Let the precipitate settle for 24 hours. Drain dispose of the resulting supernate with at least 50 times the volume of water. Allow the residue to dry and package for disposal as hazardous waste. 4) An HF label kit has been supplied. All containers of HF must be properly labeled and the per cent of HF must be designated on the container. The label supplied is designed to be used when HF is transferred from the original container to other containers, such as when dilutions of the full-strength acid are made. If you only use HF from the original container, the label won't be needed, but it is supplied in the event that dilutions of the acid are made. Instructions for the use of the label are included. 5) Three additional items are supplied. One from Allied Signal gives especially good information on the toxicology, first aid and medical treatment for HF. The Esso publication is the SOP used by Esso. It is oriented towards the geological use of HF, but some items may be useful for writing your own SOP. The e-mail dated 2/9/95 contains other especially useful information. 6) The HF user form must be filled out by all users of HF. It, or a copy, must be posted near the fume hood used for HF work. It is important that the supervisor, generally faculty at Cornell, confirm with their initials that each person signing the user form has had adequate training and/or has met all of the provisions of this document. 7) No one may work alone when using HF. A buddy system must be in place, even if the "buddy" is in an adjacent room. This is especially critical in the event of a spill or an exposure to HF. 8) Personal protective equipment (PPE) required for use of HF is as follows: a) All work with HF must be done only in a properly working fume hood. The sash must be as low as possible, preferably 6-10 inches from the hood deck. If you have any doubts about the functionality of the fume hood you select for HF work please feel free to contact us and we can test hood performance for you. b) Appropriate gloves. We recommend "Silver Shield" or "4-H" brand gloves with nitrile gloves over these. We can provide gloves to you at our cost along with training in their use. c) Splash goggles must be worn at all times HF is in use. d) If work can not be completed with the sash at the 6-10 inch height a face shield is reguired. e) In addition to a lab coat, a rubber apron and sleeve protectors are strongly recommended. f) As with all operations using corrosive materials exposed legs (shorts), open toed shoes (sandals) and canvas shoes are prohibited when using HF. g) Exercise caution with PPE and lab clothing used for HF work. Such items should be used only for HF work and not used in other areas of the lab or other lab operations. In the event that PPE or lab coats are contaminated with HF it could be spread to other items or surfaces in the lab. h) No eating or drinking is allowed in any lab at Cornell at any time, and especially when HF is in use. 9) First aid knowledge is very important with HF use. No one is allowed to use HF without having studied the required first aid response to a skin exposure to HF. The Allied Signal publication and the MSDS supplied give excellent first aid information. Calcium glauconate cream is applied topically for minor HF burns. Vivian Hsiao, an occupational nurse at Gannett Health Center (5-5156), can facilitate the first aid aspects of HF use, providing calcium glauconate cream and additional information. All HF burns must be reported to Gannett Health Center where the exposed individual will be given immediate medical attention. Hydrofluoric acid is one of the most dangerous research chemicals in use today. A spill of concentrated HF to the skin of 2% of the total body area is fatal! Please treat this material and its use with the greatest respect. There are now some alternative procedures to etch silicon that don't use concentrated HF. For example, there is an ammonium bifluoride preparation which may be used to etch silicon in some situations. Perhaps the literature of your decipline may have examples of other alternatives to the use of HF. Please feel free to contact me if you have any additional questions. Prepared by Tom Shelley, July, 1996. I may be reached at 255-4288 or tjs1@cornell.edu. ********************************************************* Tom Shelley, Chemical Hygiene Officer, Cornell University Department of Environmental Health and Safety, 125 Humphreys Service Building, Ithaca, NY 14853. (607) 255-4288 tjs1@cornell.edu --============_-1272807368==_ma============-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:54:24 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Neal Langerman Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991007112205.00c73100@pop.ne.mediaone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Maryann --- You are admitting to your age. (:>) Most of those on this list will have no concept of beeswax bottles and handling a chemical as described. Those were the days when we worked in labs and really never worried much about safety. We worked carefully, usually wore gloves and safety glasses, and got the job done. Yes, things are better today, but they are also much more complicated. Fortunately, we now know much more, and that knowledge does help improve the quality of our lives, in the lab and away. I have not thought about HF in wax sealed wax bottles in decades. Regards - Neal At 11:22 AM 10/7/99 -0400, you wrote: >As for HF, I think we handled it with more respect when the only bottle it >came in were made of beeswax, and you opened it with a hot ice pick, and >sealed it with a hot spatula. > >Mary Ann ******************************************************************* NEAL LANGERMAN ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY 8909 COMPLEX Dr. Ste C SAN DIEGO CA 92123 858 874 5577 858 874 8239 (FAX) http://www.chemical-safety.com Advanced Chemical Safety is the source for prevention of injury, illness or environmental insult! ******************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:40:44 +1300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Tony Haggerty Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, you yanks do spell sulphur with an F!!!! >(:-) Tony PS And Aluminium as Aluminum!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Burns To: Sent: 08 October 1999 02:06 Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! > another horror story: > > Many years ago my lab technician inhaled some phosgene. the local hospital > ER had a copy of Sax- we bought it for them. when I took the guy in, with > O2, the doctor and nurse had no idea of what to do. I referred them to Sax- > and found it for them in the nurses station. then they started looking for > phosgene under "F"!!!! > > I had hoped things had gotten better in the last 25 years, but apparently > not! > > > > "Semper Adventurus!" > > Robert L. Burns > Group Leader, R&D > RUETGERS Organics Corporation > Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com > Phone 814 231 9214 > Fax 815 333 4805 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tayman, Tammy [mailto:ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 9:02 > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! > > > I've been told that it is always a good idea to send the MSDS along to the > hospital with an exposure victim. I happen to be another who can attest to > how true that is. A few years ago I had bromine spilled over one of my > hands. (Stupid, I know. Wrong gloves, too busy, in a hurry...) I called > ahead to the doctor and headed on over. When I got there they rushed me > back and the doctor rushed in. She asked what happened and I proceded to > explain about the bromine exposure, flushing with water, flushing with > sodium thiosulfate solution, and arriving at my present location. She > pursed her lips, nodded, said "I see" and then started scribbling. She then > paused. looked up and asked me "Bromine, that would be b-r-o-m-e-n...???" > At that point I knew I was in trouble. > > Tammy Tayman > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Haggerty [mailto:techton@IHUG.CO.NZ] > > > Terry > If it had been HF, believe me , you would have known it. > But your point is taken. In my experience very few GP doctors have any > knowledge of Industrial Hygiene much less the chemistry associated. I have > had calls from hospital doctors who wanted to know what they should be > treating for after sending people to hospital following chemical exposure. > And I am but a humble chemist!! > Cheers > Tony > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:03:08 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Dewey Williams Subject: MSDS expiration dates?! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed We were filling a batch of (paper) MSDS' and noticed that the latest ones from Aldrich had a "Valid 02/1999 - 04/1999. Does this mean the MSDS expires after 04/1999 and is no longer usable for that material? I am certain that I will still have a quantity of these chemicals in stock and they are not any of those that would expire over such a short period of time. Has anyone else noticed this? I have only noticed it on the recent Aldrich MSDS' we have received. Dewey Williams - Lab Manager mailto:williams@email.uncc.edu UNC-Charlotte Chemistry Dept. http://www.chem.uncc.edu "These are my ideas and no one else will claim them." "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:10:17 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Pirrello Subject: Re: MSDS expiration dates?! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I think Aldrich does that because they reissue an updated MSDS CD-Rom 4 times a year. Michael G. Pirrello, CHMM Facilities, Safety & Environmental Mgr. Trimeris, Inc. mpirrello@trimeris.com -----Original Message----- From: Dewey Williams [mailto:williams@EMAIL.UNCC.EDU] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 5:03 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: MSDS expiration dates?! We were filling a batch of (paper) MSDS' and noticed that the latest ones from Aldrich had a "Valid 02/1999 - 04/1999. Does this mean the MSDS expires after 04/1999 and is no longer usable for that material? I am certain that I will still have a quantity of these chemicals in stock and they are not any of those that would expire over such a short period of time. Has anyone else noticed this? I have only noticed it on the recent Aldrich MSDS' we have received. Dewey Williams - Lab Manager mailto:williams@email.uncc.edu UNC-Charlotte Chemistry Dept. http://www.chem.uncc.edu "These are my ideas and no one else will claim them." "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:39:52 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Sharon Reed Subject: Methylene Chloride and Nursing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have a new hire who is breast feeding and is assigned to do methylene chloride extractions in the one QA lab in my building. She has requested respirator use because she read in an MSDS that MeCl can get into breast milk. Obviously, there is no respirator cartridge for MeCl, so this is not a solution. The MSDS that made the statement is a Fisher Scientific MSDS form 1992..... their current one makes no such claim. Where can I get more information on the toxicity studies that might have engendered the statement on the one MSDS? Like, I would like to know if MeCl was found in breastmilk when the mother was exposed to concentrations in excess of the old PEL, for instance. We certainly keep exposure levels way down below 25 ppm. And any thoughts on what I ought to do to adequately protect her and her baby? She uses a hood and PVA gloves. I may try to monitor her exposure with a monitor badge.... or I may just tell her supervisor to give her other work till she's done nursing (not easy, but do-able). Any suggestions? Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:58:01 -0000 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Elisabeth B. Langford" Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991007084852.009f2370@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I was an undergrad many, many moons ago, I had an organic experiment blow up in my face. This was before safety goggles, fortunately I wore prescription glasses or I would be blind today. I do not remember the exact ingredients but there were some strong oxidizers and acid. After washing down thoroughly, I was taken to the infirmary, where I continued to wash down. The skin on my hand was dry by the time I saw the MD. The MD then applied dry litmus paper to my dry skin. When I told her the the paper or my skin needed to be wet the comment was "Oh, but the water is alkaline". At that point I knew I was better off taking care of myself. -----Original Message----- From: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List [mailto:LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu]On Behalf Of Neal Langerman Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 3:54 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! Maryann --- You are admitting to your age. (:>) Most of those on this list will have no concept of beeswax bottles and handling a chemical as described. Those were the days when we worked in labs and really never worried much about safety. We worked carefully, usually wore gloves and safety glasses, and got the job done. Yes, things are better today, but they are also much more complicated. Fortunately, we now know much more, and that knowledge does help improve the quality of our lives, in the lab and away. I have not thought about HF in wax sealed wax bottles in decades. Regards - Neal At 11:22 AM 10/7/99 -0400, you wrote: >As for HF, I think we handled it with more respect when the only bottle it >came in were made of beeswax, and you opened it with a hot ice pick, and >sealed it with a hot spatula. > >Mary Ann ******************************************************************* NEAL LANGERMAN ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY 8909 COMPLEX Dr. Ste C SAN DIEGO CA 92123 858 874 5577 858 874 8239 (FAX) http://www.chemical-safety.com Advanced Chemical Safety is the source for prevention of injury, illness or environmental insult! ******************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 03:36:48 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: Protocol for HF Use! In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991007084852.009f2370@popd.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yep, the chemists are safer, and labs aren't as enjoyable. I got a lot of AgNO3 on my hands while doing halides for SIO at their old lab atop Point Loma. Best part of that job, I could audit any course I could finagle the time for. Sat in with Pauling, Urey and of course R Revelle, and Norris Rakestraw, who was my boss. See you in SF Mary Ann At 08:54 AM 10/7/99 -0700, you wrote: >Maryann --- > >You are admitting to your age. (:>) Most of those on this list will have >no concept of beeswax bottles and handling a chemical as described. Those >were the days when we worked in labs and really never worried much about >safety. We worked carefully, usually wore gloves and safety glasses, and >got the job done. Yes, things are better today, but they are also much >more complicated. Fortunately, we now know much more, and that knowledge >does help improve the quality of our lives, in the lab and away. > >I have not thought about HF in wax sealed wax bottles in decades. > >Regards - > >Neal > >At 11:22 AM 10/7/99 -0400, you wrote: > >>As for HF, I think we handled it with more respect when the only bottle it >>came in were made of beeswax, and you opened it with a hot ice pick, and >>sealed it with a hot spatula. >> >>Mary Ann > >******************************************************************* >NEAL LANGERMAN >ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY >8909 COMPLEX Dr. Ste C >SAN DIEGO CA 92123 >858 874 5577 858 874 8239 (FAX) > >http://www.chemical-safety.com > >Advanced Chemical Safety is the source for prevention of >injury, illness or environmental insult! > >******************************************************************** > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:09:12 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Alain Savard Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride and Nursing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" You can get tons of MSDSes for free. Here area a few places that may help you: The Vermont University SIRI list: http://siri.uvm.edu/msds/ ACROS-FISHER: http://search.be.acros.com/search_5.html ALDRICH (Free, become a member): https://www.sigma-aldrich.com/SAWS.nsf/msdshelp?OpenForm The Canadian Center for Occupationnal Health and Safety (NOT FREE): http://ccinfoweb.ccohs.ca/chemindex/search.html I looked at a few, but haven't found anything on nursing. Alain Savard, B.Sc. Chemical Process Analyst CAE Electronics Ltd. e-mail: alainsa@cae.ca -----Original Message----- From: Sharon Reed [mailto:Sharon_Reed@PALL.COM] Sent: October 7, 1999 5:40 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Methylene Chloride and Nursing I have a new hire who is breast feeding and is assigned to do methylene chloride extractions in the one QA lab in my building. She has requested respirator use because she read in an MSDS that MeCl can get into breast milk. Obviously, there is no respirator cartridge for MeCl, so this is not a solution. The MSDS that made the statement is a Fisher Scientific MSDS form 1992..... their current one makes no such claim. Where can I get more information on the toxicity studies that might have engendered the statement on the one MSDS? Like, I would like to know if MeCl was found in breastmilk when the mother was exposed to concentrations in excess of the old PEL, for instance. We certainly keep exposure levels way down below 25 ppm. And any thoughts on what I ought to do to adequately protect her and her baby? She uses a hood and PVA gloves. I may try to monitor her exposure with a monitor badge.... or I may just tell her supervisor to give her other work till she's done nursing (not easy, but do-able). Any suggestions? Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:38:34 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Lucy M. Zotter" Subject: dry ice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi! NACHOS, One of our students just asked me about regulations for the use of dry ice at a campus Halloween Party. Is anyone aware of any other than the general safe handling of dry ice. Thanks, Lucy Zotter Lucy Zotter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:12:46 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Tayman, Tammy" Subject: Re: MSDS expiration dates?! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Another possibility would be that the MSDS is valid specifically for lots that were made during that time period. Especially if they are in the process of changing their synthesis protocols, etc. However, it doesn't necessarily mean that the MSDS for lots made during a different time period would be different, just that they could be. Tammy Tayman -----Original Message----- From: Michael Pirrello [mailto:Mpirrello@TRIMERIS.COM] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 5:10 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: MSDS expiration dates?! I think Aldrich does that because they reissue an updated MSDS CD-Rom 4 times a year. Michael G. Pirrello, CHMM Facilities, Safety & Environmental Mgr. Trimeris, Inc. mpirrello@trimeris.com -----Original Message----- From: Dewey Williams [mailto:williams@EMAIL.UNCC.EDU] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 5:03 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: MSDS expiration dates?! We were filling a batch of (paper) MSDS' and noticed that the latest ones from Aldrich had a "Valid 02/1999 - 04/1999. Does this mean the MSDS expires after 04/1999 and is no longer usable for that material? I am certain that I will still have a quantity of these chemicals in stock and they are not any of those that would expire over such a short period of time. Has anyone else noticed this? I have only noticed it on the recent Aldrich MSDS' we have received. Dewey Williams - Lab Manager mailto:williams@email.uncc.edu UNC-Charlotte Chemistry Dept. http://www.chem.uncc.edu "These are my ideas and no one else will claim them." "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:16:34 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Tayman, Tammy" Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride and Nursing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Sharon Reed [mailto:Sharon_Reed@PALL.COM] > > > She uses a hood and PVA gloves. I may try to monitor her > exposure with a > monitor badge.... or I may just tell her supervisor to give > her other work till > she's done nursing (not easy, but do-able). Any suggestions? > That sounds like what the prudent person would do. Remember, in the case of an unborn child, your and your company's liability extends to two years past the time the child reaches the age of majority! Tammy Tayman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:06:57 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Robert Burns Subject: Re: dry ice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I'd just say NO. I know it's silly, but the liability issues are just too great. WE don't let anyone take anything out, including dry ice. "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 Fax 815 333 4805 -----Original Message----- From: Lucy M. Zotter [mailto:lmz0@MS1.ALLENCOL.EDU] Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 8:39 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: dry ice Hi! NACHOS, One of our students just asked me about regulations for the use of dry ice at a campus Halloween Party. Is anyone aware of any other than the general safe handling of dry ice. Thanks, Lucy Zotter Lucy Zotter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:08:26 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Robert Burns Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride and Nursing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I'd find her other work to do. That liability issue again! "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 Fax 815 333 4805 -----Original Message----- From: Tayman, Tammy [mailto:ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US] Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 7:17 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride and Nursing > -----Original Message----- > From: Sharon Reed [mailto:Sharon_Reed@PALL.COM] > > > She uses a hood and PVA gloves. I may try to monitor her > exposure with a > monitor badge.... or I may just tell her supervisor to give > her other work till > she's done nursing (not easy, but do-able). Any suggestions? > That sounds like what the prudent person would do. Remember, in the case of an unborn child, your and your company's liability extends to two years past the time the child reaches the age of majority! Tammy Tayman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:18:21 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Joe Chase Subject: Re: dry ice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The obvious precaution with dry ice is don't let it come in direct contact with items being consumed. When I've see it in punch bowls I cringe. It's handled as an industrial product and it comes in contact with tools I wouldn't have on my dining table, i.e shovels, saws, etc. --Joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:35:44 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Harry Elston Subject: Offer to new CHOs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" I've noticed that there has been a number of posts by new Chemical Hygiene Officers recently on Labsafety. As you have already found out, there are a lot of resources which are available to you.  One of the best resources you can have in your new position is the journal Chemical Health & Safety, published by the Division of Chemical Health and Safety of the American Chemical Society and Elsevier Science.

If any of the list's newer members would like to receive a complimentary copy of the journal, send me your contact information and I will get one mailed out to you right away.  I think that you will find the journal extremely helpful in your new responsibilities.

My e-mail address is: helston@bigfoot.com.

I wish you all good fortune with your new responsibilities.

Harry J. Elston
Editor, Chemical Health and Safety

========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:44:48 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jonathan Chase Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride and Nursing In-Reply-To: <85256803.00768EB9.00@mail.pall.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Some additional training on the use of hoods may be appropriate. Often times a certified hood can not protect individuals from exposure do to improper use of the hood itself. Moving items within the hood, persons walking and even the opening of a lab door can create eddies that draw material out of the hood and directly into the workers breathing zone. This can be demonstrated with dry ice. Once she can visualize what is happening, she may be able to alter her work practices to get maximum use of the engineering control. As far as relocation of the employee, I have had similar situations at University research labs. It can get complicated. I recommend providing as much information as possible to the pregnant women and her doctor, including personal exposure monitoring. Help them to make an educated decision, but most of all let them decide. At 05:39 PM 10/7/99 -0400, you wrote: >I have a new hire who is breast feeding and is assigned to do methylene >chloride >extractions in the one QA lab in my building. She has requested respirator use >because she read in an MSDS that MeCl can get into breast milk. Obviously, >there is no respirator cartridge for MeCl, so this is not a solution. The >MSDS >that made the statement is a Fisher Scientific MSDS form 1992..... their >current >one makes no such claim. Where can I get more information on the toxicity >studies that might have engendered the statement on the one MSDS? Like, I >would >like to know if MeCl was found in breastmilk when the mother was exposed to >concentrations in excess of the old PEL, for instance. We certainly keep >exposure levels way down below 25 ppm. And any thoughts on what I ought to do >to adequately protect her and her baby? > >She uses a hood and PVA gloves. I may try to monitor her exposure with a >monitor badge.... or I may just tell her supervisor to give her other work till >she's done nursing (not easy, but do-able). Any suggestions? > >Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:33:37 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Don Abramowitz Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride and Nursing In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >That sounds like what the prudent person would do. Remember, in the case of >an unborn child, your and your company's liability extends to two years past >the time the child reaches the age of majority! The liability issue is certainly real, and the science/toxicology is going to be vague at best on actual risk at low levels of exposure. Unless you find a document that categorically states there is absolutely no crossover of methylene chloride to milk, you will be dealing in the realm of perception of risk. Similarly, if you do personal air monitoring and you get a result other than "none detected", the waters will remain muddy, and you will have documented actual exposure at some level, the significance of which can be debated endlessly if a concern is raised later about an adverse effect to the infant. I would focus on the employee's desires and attempt to have her make the decision (with all the information you can supply) as to whether she continue to work with the prudent practices you've described, or to do alternate work, since that option is feasible. The Supreme Court decision some years back concerning involuntary removal of pregnant workers from lead exposure suggests to me that employers are not quite free to reassign workers on this basis without their agreement, even when it seems like the most prudent course of action. Don ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:41:12 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Linda S. Perez-Saldana" Subject: Re: dry ice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I'd just say NO. > >I know it's silly, but the liability issues are just too great. > >WE don't let anyone take anything out, including dry ice. > I agree. Don't get yourself involved. There are plenty of grocers who sell dry ice. Linda ============================================================ Linda S. Perez-Saldana NAOSMM member #991 since 1994 Coordinator Ask Me! New Mexico State University Biology Department (505)646-3915 Box 30001 MSC 3AF (505)382-6547 pager Foster Hall Room 130 (505)646-5665 fax Las Cruces, NM 88003 liperez@nmsu.edu ***** http://pc-biology.nmsu.edu/linda/coordina.htm ***** ============================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:47:45 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride and Nursing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Speaking as former nursing mother, I would have requested other work assignments to avoid any potential problem for my babies. I worked in an analytical chem lab with my first and a micro lab with my second. I took great care to read MSDS sheets and other sources for toxicity data. I simply let my assistant work any questionable chemicals. On some occasions I went to the library to do literature searches or to the outer office areas to do data reduction activities. I just wouldn't take the chance. Babies are just too susceptible to chemicals. Even if levels are safe for mom, they can pose problems for tiny growing livers. If you would like to give me a call or have your mom give me a call, feel free. For what its worth, Janeen. >>> Sharon Reed 10/07 5:39 PM >>> I have a new hire who is breast feeding and is assigned to do methylene chloride extractions in the one QA lab in my building. She has requested respirator use because she read in an MSDS that MeCl can get into breast milk. Obviously, there is no respirator cartridge for MeCl, so this is not a solution. The MSDS that made the statement is a Fisher Scientific MSDS form 1992..... their current one makes no such claim. Where can I get more information on the toxicity studies that might have engendered the statement on the one MSDS? Like, I would like to know if MeCl was found in breastmilk when the mother was exposed to concentrations in excess of the old PEL, for instance. We certainly keep exposure levels way down below 25 ppm. And any thoughts on what I ought to do to adequately protect her and her baby? She uses a hood and PVA gloves. I may try to monitor her exposure with a monitor badge.... or I may just tell her supervisor to give her other work till she's done nursing (not easy, but do-able). Any suggestions? Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:57:19 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Tayman, Tammy" Subject: Re: dry ice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > I agree. Don't get yourself involved. There are plenty of > grocers who sell > dry ice. > If the students choose to buy it from a grocer or ABC store (yup, they sell dry ice, too, around here!), you might still want to offer words of caution on the general safe handling, as the kids probably have no clue what they are dealing with! Tammy Tayman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:56:33 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Alain Savard Subject: Re: dry ice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The danger with dry ice is air displacement. It is a controlled substance and has a TLV-TWA... depending on the region. Here, in Quebec, it is set at 5000 ppm. You have to be worried, since you are likely to have a large number of attendies, who are all breathing oxygen to replace it with even more CO2. On top of that you have smokers! Unless ventilation is extremely good (unlikely), dry ice is not the way to go. Just my opinion. Alain Savard, B.Sc. Chemical Process Analyst CAE Electronics Ltd. e-mail: alainsa@cae.ca -----Original Message----- From: Robert Burns [mailto:RBURNS@RUETGERS-ORGANICS-CORP.COM] Sent: October 8, 1999 9:07 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: dry ice I'd just say NO. I know it's silly, but the liability issues are just too great. WE don't let anyone take anything out, including dry ice. "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 Fax 815 333 4805 -----Original Message----- From: Lucy M. Zotter [mailto:lmz0@MS1.ALLENCOL.EDU] Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 8:39 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: dry ice Hi! NACHOS, One of our students just asked me about regulations for the use of dry ice at a campus Halloween Party. Is anyone aware of any other than the general safe handling of dry ice. Thanks, Lucy Zotter Lucy Zotter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:53:46 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Robert Burns Subject: Re: dry ice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I wouldn't. I don't ever want to be in the position of someone being able to say I said it was OK to do whatever. "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 Fax 815 333 4805 -----Original Message----- From: Tayman, Tammy [mailto:ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US] Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 10:57 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: dry ice > I agree. Don't get yourself involved. There are plenty of > grocers who sell > dry ice. > If the students choose to buy it from a grocer or ABC store (yup, they sell dry ice, too, around here!), you might still want to offer words of caution on the general safe handling, as the kids probably have no clue what they are dealing with! Tammy Tayman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:03:41 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Robert Burns Subject: Re: dry ice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dry ice has several hazards- temperature- can cause frostbite- my doctor uses it to freeze pre-cancerous spots off my skin. displace oxygen- see below. generate pressure when enclosed- I used to work with a chemist who would put a little in a snap-cap vial in someone else's lab- went off like a shot after a little while. Students are unpredictable, as those of you in academia well know. I'm not, but we are in State College PA, home of a rather large university. "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 Fax 815 333 4805 -----Original Message----- From: Alain Savard [mailto:alainsa@CAE.CA] Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 10:57 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: dry ice The danger with dry ice is air displacement. It is a controlled substance and has a TLV-TWA... depending on the region. Here, in Quebec, it is set at 5000 ppm. You have to be worried, since you are likely to have a large number of attendies, who are all breathing oxygen to replace it with even more CO2. On top of that you have smokers! Unless ventilation is extremely good (unlikely), dry ice is not the way to go. Just my opinion. Alain Savard, B.Sc. Chemical Process Analyst CAE Electronics Ltd. e-mail: alainsa@cae.ca -----Original Message----- From: Robert Burns [mailto:RBURNS@RUETGERS-ORGANICS-CORP.COM] Sent: October 8, 1999 9:07 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: dry ice I'd just say NO. I know it's silly, but the liability issues are just too great. WE don't let anyone take anything out, including dry ice. "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 Fax 815 333 4805 -----Original Message----- From: Lucy M. Zotter [mailto:lmz0@MS1.ALLENCOL.EDU] Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 8:39 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: dry ice Hi! NACHOS, One of our students just asked me about regulations for the use of dry ice at a campus Halloween Party. Is anyone aware of any other than the general safe handling of dry ice. Thanks, Lucy Zotter Lucy Zotter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:02:54 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Smith, Karen" Subject: Re: dry ice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Consider the quantity of dry ice to be used, the size of the room, and the rate of air exchange. If the room will contain 10% gaseous CO2 you may have some very realistic cadavers! Some of our students at Clark want to set up a haunted house using dry ice to create an eerie fog. They estimate they want about twenty pounds. Upon further investigation, the room is in the basement, and the air return is an adjoining closet. The wall to the closet stops about 6 inches from the ceiling. Therefore the entire room (within six inches of the ceiling) would have to get filled with CO2 before it would be exchanged out of the room. The air enters the room on the opposite side of the ceiling. I fear they won't get enough mixing in the room and may asphyxiate people. My opinion is no dry ice. Your situation may be more feasible. Karen Smith Clark College Chemistry Dept > ---------- > From: Lucy M. Zotter > Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List > Sent: Friday, October 8, 1999 12:38 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: dry ice > > Hi! NACHOS, > One of our students just asked me about regulations for the use of dry ice > at a campus Halloween Party. Is anyone aware of any other than the > general > safe handling of dry ice. > Thanks, Lucy Zotter > Lucy Zotter > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:06:22 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Nick Spare Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride and Nursing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit None of the respondants to this question (as of 8.00 am PST) has mentioned the statement, "Obviously, there is no respirator cartridge for MeCl(2), so this is not a solution." Is this true only for pregnant women? Is it true in general, and if so, is it true that organic vapor cartridges on full-face respirators are ineffective for all chlorinated HC's at low concs.? According to the NIOSH pocket guide a full-face respirator with organic vapor cartridges is recommended for escape but a SCBA is recommended for other exposures. Another reference calls for SCBA above 500 ppm. Any comments? One other question while we're on the subject of CH2Cl2 - are the usual vapor badges used for air monitoring accurate for a material whose vapor is so much heavier than air? Thanks for the help Nick Spare Pilot Chemical -----Original Message----- From: Sharon Reed To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 2:36 PM Subject: Methylene Chloride and Nursing >I have a new hire who is breast feeding and is assigned to do methylene chloride >extractions in the one QA lab in my building. She has requested respirator use >because she read in an MSDS that MeCl can get into breast milk. Obviously, >there is no respirator cartridge for MeCl, so this is not a solution. The MSDS >that made the statement is a Fisher Scientific MSDS form 1992..... their current >one makes no such claim. Where can I get more information on the toxicity >studies that might have engendered the statement on the one MSDS? Like, I would >like to know if MeCl was found in breastmilk when the mother was exposed to >concentrations in excess of the old PEL, for instance. We certainly keep >exposure levels way down below 25 ppm. And any thoughts on what I ought to do >to adequately protect her and her baby? > >She uses a hood and PVA gloves. I may try to monitor her exposure with a >monitor badge.... or I may just tell her supervisor to give her other work till >she's done nursing (not easy, but do-able). Any suggestions? > >Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:17:04 -0400 Reply-To: wessonl@co.oakland.mi.us Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Larry Wesson Organization: Oakland County Michigan Subject: Re: Fire Alarm Use for Evacuations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Naomi Kelly wrote: > > We use our fire alarms for evacuations other than fire emergencies--our > fire department has no problem with this. Question for the fire chief who > responded--Is this usually a jurisdictional call by the fire chief, or are > we ignoring regulation? > > Naomi Kelly > Environmental Health and Safety Officer > Clemson University > 261 P&AS Building > Clemson, SC 29634-5740 > (864)656-7554 > Fax (864)656-7630 Actually, all model codes have very similar language as does the National Fire Protection Association's Life Safety Code. The code states that where required; audible alarm-notification appliances shall be installed and shall sound a distinctive sound which shall not be used for any other purpose other than that of a fire alarm. I belive you might find this covered under the "General Duty Clause". In Michigan this is a misdemeanor that can be raised up to a felony depending on cause and effect like someone was injured/or worse while evacuating the premises. The logic is clear that if a fire alarm is used for other purposes the tenants will not respond to the alarm simply because they won't know that this time it is a real fire. Please check your local regulations for your area. Larry Wesson, Chief Fire & Security Oakland County Michigan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:20:48 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Tayman, Tammy" Subject: Re: dry ice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Do you honestly thinkn that you can stop them from using it by simply saying it shouldn't be done? You can't stop them from buying it. I don't think you can ban it from the dorms. (We are not a residential college, so I'm trying to remember from my college days, here.) And you can't stop them from using it off campus. I would think that it would be better for the students to know a bit about the hazards, etc, rather than simply saying don't do it, when you know they are going to, and letting them have real problems! I'm not saying to encourage them. However, I think it is criminally negligent to let them blunder on blindly! Tammy Tayman > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Burns [mailto:RBURNS@RUETGERS-ORGANICS-CORP.COM] > Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 10:54 AM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: dry ice > > > I wouldn't. I don't ever want to be in the position of > someone being able > to say I said it was OK to do whatever. > > "Semper Adventurus!" > > Robert L. Burns > Group Leader, R&D > RUETGERS Organics Corporation > Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com > Phone 814 231 9214 > Fax 815 333 4805 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tayman, Tammy [mailto:ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US] > Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 10:57 > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: dry ice > > > > I agree. Don't get yourself involved. There are plenty of > > grocers who sell > > dry ice. > > > > > If the students choose to buy it from a grocer or ABC store > (yup, they sell > dry ice, too, around here!), you might still want to offer > words of caution > on the general safe handling, as the kids probably have no > clue what they > are dealing with! > > Tammy Tayman > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:27:49 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Lucy M. Zotter" Subject: dry ice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks for the answers The student wasn't asking me to supply the dry ice only what safety rules to follow for using drt ice for a party. Lucy Lucy Zotter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:33:33 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: References to Commercial Products and Services MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-10-07 10:47:28 EDT, you write: << Not to advertise the brands, but we have used Whatman Vacu-Guard and Gelman Vacushield. I am sure there are other brands out there too. >> Hi NACHO's Mark and others should have no reservation about discussing products and services that they have used to provide other with positive and negative recommendations. Vendors of products and services are welcome to share with LABSAFET-L Readers/NACHO Members brief descriptions of same. They will be appreciated here as they help us to solve some of the many challenges we face. The important point to remember is the "brief" part. ... Jim Kaufman ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, Director The Laboratory Safety Workshop Safety in Science Education 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 Cell: 508-574-6264 Email: labsafe@aol.com Web Site: http://www.labsafety.org/ ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:33:34 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: MSDS Sources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-10-08 08:29:32 EDT, you write: << You can get tons of MSDSes for free. Here area a few places that may help you: >> Hi NACHOs, Don't forget that the LSW Web Site (www.labsafety.org) has links to all these MSDS sources and much much more. ... Jim Kaufman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:46:32 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Amy Gregory Subject: Re: dry ice In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I agree with Tammy. As long as you do not provide them with the dry ice and let them know the hazards involved in its use, you are doing your job. Amy R. Gregory Lab Manager/NRCC--CHO At 11:20 AM 10/08/1999 -0400, you wrote: >Do you honestly thinkn that you can stop them from using it by simply saying >it shouldn't be done? You can't stop them from buying it. I don't think >you can ban it from the dorms. (We are not a residential college, so I'm >trying to remember from my college days, here.) And you can't stop them >from using it off campus. I would think that it would be better for the >students to know a bit about the hazards, etc, rather than simply saying >don't do it, when you know they are going to, and letting them have real >problems! I'm not saying to encourage them. However, I think it is >criminally negligent to let them blunder on blindly! > >Tammy Tayman > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Burns [mailto:RBURNS@RUETGERS-ORGANICS-CORP.COM] >> Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 10:54 AM >> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >> Subject: Re: dry ice >> >> >> I wouldn't. I don't ever want to be in the position of >> someone being able >> to say I said it was OK to do whatever. >> >> "Semper Adventurus!" >> >> Robert L. Burns >> Group Leader, R&D >> RUETGERS Organics Corporation >> Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com >> Phone 814 231 9214 >> Fax 815 333 4805 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tayman, Tammy [mailto:ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US] >> Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 10:57 >> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >> Subject: Re: dry ice >> >> >> > I agree. Don't get yourself involved. There are plenty of >> > grocers who sell >> > dry ice. >> > >> >> >> If the students choose to buy it from a grocer or ABC store >> (yup, they sell >> dry ice, too, around here!), you might still want to offer >> words of caution >> on the general safe handling, as the kids probably have no >> clue what they >> are dealing with! >> >> Tammy Tayman >> > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:02:56 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Sharon Reed Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride and Nursing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The ineffectiveness of organic vapor cartridges is not just for pregnant/nursing mothers. If you look on the packaging in which the cartridges are sent, you will see a list of chemicals for which those cartridges are NOT effective.... methyl chloride is listed, but not methylENE chloride. I then called Lab Safety Supply Techline and they told me MeCl2 should be included in that list (which is not comprehensive). Many of the halogenated HCs are on the list... MeBr, MeCl, MeI, Vinyl Cl, etcetc. SO just because a cartridge is for general "organic vapors" does NOT mean it will necessarily protect against the PARTICULAR organic you are using!!! Also... sorry for using my "personal" e-mail stationary last time... it was just signed Sharon instead of everything down below!!! Sharon Reed Safety and Chemical Hygiene Officer, PED Pall Corporation Cortland NY 13045 607-753-6041 Sharon_Reed@pall.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:19:13 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Debbie Decker Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride/Respirators In-Reply-To: <003b01bf119e$b1e5de00$2101010a@njs> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:06 AM 10/8/99 -0700, you wrote: >None of the respondants to this question (as of 8.00 am PST) has mentioned >the statement, "Obviously, there is no respirator cartridge for MeCl(2), so >this is not a solution." Is this true only for pregnant women? Is it true >in general, and if so, is it true that organic vapor cartridges on full-face >respirators are ineffective for all chlorinated HC's at low concs.? >According to the NIOSH pocket guide a full-face respirator with organic >vapor cartridges is recommended for escape but a SCBA is recommended for >other exposures. Another reference calls for SCBA above 500 ppm. Any >comments? I can't speak to the relative accuracy of monitoring badges with heavier-than-air vapors. But methylene chloride has poor warning properties (smell or taste inside the respirator, at a level below the PEL, indicating that the agent has "broken through" the cartridge) - for one thing, the odor threshold exceeds the PEL - so a cartridge respirator is not permitted with methylene chloride (isocyanates have a similar problem). Cartridge respirators can be used with other chlorinated hydrocarbons - you just have to be sure to check the manufacturer's recommendations on the cartridges as to what chemicals for which the cartridges are appropriate (wow - that was some sentence!). Regards, Deb. Debbie M. Decker, Health and Safety Specialist Environmental Health and Safety University of California, Davis 1 Shields Ave. Davis, CA 95616 (530)754-7964 (530)752-1493 dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:29:45 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Alain Savard Subject: Re: dry ice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The rule is simple.. if used in small amount, a good ventilation is required, using it outdoors is better. Avoid direct skin contact (cryogenic burn). By the way, you will probably generate more apparent smoke in a cooler area, outside in cool weather (if you live far enough away from the equator). Dipping dry ice in hot water generates more smoke but releases more CO2 also. AVOID USING IN LARGE AMOUNT FOR SMOKE and fog generation. Instead, they might consider using an oil mist sprayer like those used in rock concerts. As with all chemicals, THEY should be made aware of the dangers and read the MSDS. _____ These are suggestions, not recommendations, No guarantee or warranty of anykind, implied or otherwise, is make in regards to the information above. This information comes from personnal experience and since conditions may vary this guarantee CANNOT be made. _____ Good Luck, Alain Savard, B.Sc. Chemical Process Analyst CAE Electronics Ltd. e-mail: alainsa@cae.ca -----Original Message----- From: Lucy M. Zotter [ mailto:lmz0@MS1.ALLENCOL.EDU ] Sent: October 8, 1999 11:28 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: dry ice Thanks for the answers The student wasn't asking me to supply the dry ice only what safety rules to follow for using drt ice for a party. Lucy Lucy Zotter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:52:01 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Don Abramowitz Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride and Nursing (Vapor badges) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >One other question while we're on the subject of CH2Cl2 - are the usual >vapor badges used for air monitoring accurate for a material whose vapor is >so much heavier than air? The density of a gas or vapor compared to air is not a predictor for the performance of a vapor badge (or active sampling via charcoal tubes, or for any direct reading instrument I can think of). For example, there are fully validated vapor badges (passive monitors) for mercury vapor out there, and vapors don't get much denser than this. The thing bear in mind is that at say, 20 ppm of methylene chloride, the density of the contaminated air is not significantly different from that of uncontaminated air, and the methylene chloride-containing air will mix freely and carry along with the movement of surrounding air. The higher molecular weight molecules won't settle out of the air like dust particles. On the other hand, air containing high vapor concentrations, like the area just above the surface of a gasoline spill, will behave differently than the surrounding air as the density difference is significant, and that layer of air will indeed stay low and follow the path of gravity. (That first millimeter or two above the surface is likely a saturated atmosphere.) At the same time, that dense layer is free to mix with the surrounding air via air currents, diffusion, etc. - thus the smell of gasoline at nose height when a little spills on the ground. (Not that I personally would ever spill any - just heard about it somewhere :-) ) Hope this helps. Don "Badges? We don't got to show you any stinkin' badges." - Unrecalled actor in "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Donald Abramowitz, CIH Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College 101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue Bryn Mawr PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081 (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:52:16 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Ahler Subject: Methylene Chloride and Nursing Comments: To: Sharon_Reed@PALL.COM In-Reply-To: <85256803.00768EB9.00@mail.pall.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Methylene" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sharon, (Concerning your pregnant employee working with dichloromethane, gloves and hood notwithstanding) My first recommendation is to find something else for this pregnant employee to do before the baby arrives. Let's say your working environment actually causes no damage to the fetus. Worst Possible Case = If the child turns up with a health or developmental issue of unclear causes, you ( your company) may have to spend some time with lawyers to prove your point( if you can) or to settle (if you must - a highly likely result). If there is another, relatively chemical free task you can give to this lady, do it. That said, I do have a reference which gives some detailed clinical toxicology for dichloromethane, including an anecdote concerning a 24 week pregnant human victim (ingestion of CHCL2)who eventually delivered a healthy term baby. HOWEVER: Beware anecdotal data - being lucky is not the same as being right, and it's often hard to tell the two apart. The reference is: Gosselin, Smith, Hodge, Clinical Toxicology of Commercial Products, 5th ed. 1984. I'll be out of the office for a few days, but send me a FAX number and I'll get the text to you. Thanks. Michael Ahler, CHO mahler@calpoly.edu Risk Management Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, California . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:52:26 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: Offer to new CHOs In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991008082647.00927ce0@mail.fgi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Good idea, Harry. As for the look of CH&S, it comes darn close to the old one, which is reassuring to us seniors. As for content, I'm saving that for my recuperation period. Still look for Jay's column near the front. mas At 08:35 AM 10/8/99 -0500, you wrote: >>>> I've noticed that there has been a number of posts by new Chemical Hygiene Officers recently on Labsafety. As you have already found out, there are a lot of resources which are available to you. One of the best resources you can have in your new position is the journal Chemical Health & Safety, published by the Division of Chemical Health and Safety of the American Chemical Society and Elsevier Science. If any of the list's newer members would like to receive a complimentary copy of the journal, send me your contact information and I will get one mailed out to you right away. I think that you will find the journal extremely helpful in your new responsibilities. My e-mail address is: helston@bigfoot.com. I wish you all good fortune with your new responsibilities. Harry J. Elston Editor, Chemical Health and Safety <<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:13:46 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Nick Spare Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride and Nursing (Vapor badges) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks all for the info on CH2Cl2. To Sharon - who's cartridges do you use? I checked all the packaging associated with ours and there is no list of vapors to avoid on any of it. We bought the cartridges from LabSafety also. As far as I can see, there is no such list in their catalog either. Thanks again Nick Spare Pilot Chemical -----Original Message----- From: Don Abramowitz To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Date: Friday, October 08, 1999 10:51 AM Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride and Nursing (Vapor badges) >>One other question while we're on the subject of CH2Cl2 - are the usual >>vapor badges used for air monitoring accurate for a material whose vapor is >>so much heavier than air? > >The density of a gas or vapor compared to air is not a predictor for the >performance of a vapor badge (or active sampling via charcoal tubes, or for >any direct reading instrument I can think of). For example, there are >fully validated vapor badges (passive monitors) for mercury vapor out >there, and vapors don't get much denser than this. > >The thing bear in mind is that at say, 20 ppm of methylene chloride, the >density of the contaminated air is not significantly different from that of >uncontaminated air, and the methylene chloride-containing air will mix >freely and carry along with the movement of surrounding air. The higher >molecular weight molecules won't settle out of the air like dust particles. > > >On the other hand, air containing high vapor concentrations, like the area >just above the surface of a gasoline spill, will behave differently than >the surrounding air as the density difference is significant, and that >layer of air will indeed stay low and follow the path of gravity. (That >first millimeter or two above the surface is likely a saturated >atmosphere.) > >At the same time, that dense layer is free to mix with the surrounding air >via air currents, diffusion, etc. - thus the smell of gasoline at nose >height when a little spills on the ground. (Not that I personally would >ever spill any - just heard about it somewhere :-) ) > >Hope this helps. > > Don > >"Badges? We don't got to show you any stinkin' badges." > - Unrecalled actor in "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre." > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ > Donald Abramowitz, CIH > Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer > > Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College > 101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue > Bryn Mawr PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081 > (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:30:33 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Scott Donnenberg Subject: Health & Safety Services MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please allow me to take this opportunity to informally introduce my company and several services that we offer. We are a full scale Environmental, Health & Safety Engineering and Consulting firm, located in Pine Brook, NJ. Listed below you will find several of our available services, which of course can be custom tailored to your company's individual needs. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to call us at (800) 377-8218 or (973) 244-0600. Oxford Environmental, Inc. 43 Route 46 East, Suite 702 Pine Brook, NJ 07058 scott@oxfordenv.com www.oxfordenv.com (under construction) *Health & Safety Plans *Safety Training *OSHA Compliance Inspections, Audits, Monitoring *Process Safety Management *Compliance Litigation *Silica Compliance Programs *Industrial Hygiene *Asbestos & Lead Services *Silica Compliance Programs *Air Monitoring *Permitting *Hydrogeological Services *Remedial Investigations & Design *Site Remediation *Waste Disposal Management *Environmental Audits *ISO 14000 Program Development *Authorized Training Institute - National Safety Council Full staff of Certified Safety Professionals (CSP), Certified Industrial Hygienists (CIH), Professional Engineers (P.E.), Registered Architects (RA), and Hydrogeologists. 'Call the Ox' for all your Health and Safety Needs 1-800-377-8218 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:19:55 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Susan Lauterbach Subject: labcoats Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings all, Does anyone have any protocols regarding wearing labcoats outside of the laboratory??? Our Safety Committee is torn between no restrictions to treating labcoats similar to gloves (which are not allowed outside of the laboratory). My thought is that when a labcoat is needed as PPE, it should be allowed. There is a concern of spreading contamination to seminar rooms and other public areas. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Susan L. Susan K. Lauterbach, M.S. Coordinator, Instructional Laboratories and Facility Safety University of Oklahoma Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry 620 Parrington Oval, Room 208 Norman, OK 73019 Phone: 405-325-2742 FAX: 405-325-6111 e-mail: sklauterbach@ou.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:24:52 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: HF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" I know we've had extensive discussions about HF in particular and chemical burns in general, so I'll summarize a few important points.

1) The folks who have specific protocols for HF use, including designated use areas, emergency treatment plans, and specific PPE are right on.

2) Whether it's HF or HCl, working with your local EMS, fire dept., and ERs IN ADVANCE is essential - kudos to those who already do.

3) MSDSs are nice but rarely sufficient by themselves wrt medical information.  Probably the most useful info on them for medical personnel is proper spelling, CAS number, and water solubility.  Check to see if those providing emergency medical care (on-site responders, EMS, ER) have useful references for chemical exposure.  There are some good ones on the list at my old website: http://www.utexas.edu/cons/safety/bulletins/hazmatrefs.html.  Note that the ATSDR references are free; Volume III (loose-leaf binder) is being updated and should be out soon if it isn't already.  I still think the Bronstein & Currance (1994) reference is one of the best field guides.

4) Remind your employees that helping a contaminated co-worker is nice, but becoming a second patient isn't.

5) Look for medical-specific training for chemical exposure; if there's a class locally, have someone from your facility attend.  Better yet, help sponsor one!  There are a variety of classes out there, some focusing on NFPA 473 (competencies for medical responders to hazmat incidents), some based on other standardized criteria.  I think Neal Langerman teaches stuff like that, and so do I. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:23:13 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Roger H. Postley" Subject: Poison (Chemical)Treatments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With all the list discussion on HF and other accidental chemical contact, has it come to anyone's mind to contact your state's poison control center? Over my years of teaching HS chemistry, amateur radio emergency work, gardening, etc. I have had occasion to call poison control several times - they are quick, knowledgeble and even follow up on the accident. -Roger Postley Retired HS Teacher President, Chem-Safe, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:36:34 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Robert Burns Subject: Re: labcoats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Our rule is no lab coats in rest rooms or lunch room. We've talked about having the rule be lab coats in lab only, but that's not practical. What do you do if you need to work in more than one lab? Or need to dump waste, which is in a common area, not in a lab at all. We are an industrial R&D laboratory. "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 Fax 815 333 4805 -----Original Message----- From: Susan Lauterbach [mailto:sklauterbach@CHEMDEPT.CHEM.OU.EDU] Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 15:20 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: labcoats Greetings all, Does anyone have any protocols regarding wearing labcoats outside of the laboratory??? Our Safety Committee is torn between no restrictions to treating labcoats similar to gloves (which are not allowed outside of the laboratory). My thought is that when a labcoat is needed as PPE, it should be allowed. There is a concern of spreading contamination to seminar rooms and other public areas. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Susan L. Susan K. Lauterbach, M.S. Coordinator, Instructional Laboratories and Facility Safety University of Oklahoma Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry 620 Parrington Oval, Room 208 Norman, OK 73019 Phone: 405-325-2742 FAX: 405-325-6111 e-mail: sklauterbach@ou.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:13:30 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Elizabeth Smith Subject: Re: labcoats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Our company's policy is for anything worn as PPE in the lab to remain in the lab *building*. This is to minimize spreading chemical contamination else where. Please note, this specifically applies ONLY to chemical hazards. Leaving one lab to walk nextdoor or down the hall into another lab in the same building is o.k. Leaving the building to go to a different part of the facility means leaving the lab coat. If one is needed at the 2nd location, you keep a 2nd lab coat there. Wearing it into office areas (again, in the same building) is up to the supervisors, but the Health & Safety Department strongly discourages it. No lab wear of any kind is allowed in communal areas where food is consumed/stored. Admittedly, you will always find someone who thinks their lab coat is "cool" or a status symbol of sorts to wear around. Which is why we have rules... Elizabeth Smith Environmental, Health & Safety BioPort Corporation Lansing, MI 48906 517-327-1590 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:02:52 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Chaderjian, Caroline" Subject: Re: labcoats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Susan, Wear contaminated lab coats INside the laboratory and change to a clean lab coat outside the laboratory....still used as PPE. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Lauterbach [mailto:sklauterbach@CHEMDEPT.CHEM.OU.EDU] Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 12:20 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: labcoats Greetings all, Does anyone have any protocols regarding wearing labcoats outside of the laboratory??? Our Safety Committee is torn between no restrictions to treating labcoats similar to gloves (which are not allowed outside of the laboratory). My thought is that when a labcoat is needed as PPE, it should be allowed. There is a concern of spreading contamination to seminar rooms and other public areas. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Susan L. Susan K. Lauterbach, M.S. Coordinator, Instructional Laboratories and Facility Safety University of Oklahoma Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry 620 Parrington Oval, Room 208 Norman, OK 73019 Phone: 405-325-2742 FAX: 405-325-6111 e-mail: sklauterbach@ou.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:21:46 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Robert Burns Subject: Re: labcoats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If a lab coat is known to be contaminated, it should not be worn. "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 Fax 815 333 4805 -----Original Message----- From: Chaderjian, Caroline [mailto:Caroline.Chaderjian@MED.VA.GOV] Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 16:03 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: labcoats Susan, Wear contaminated lab coats INside the laboratory and change to a clean lab coat outside the laboratory....still used as PPE. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Lauterbach [mailto:sklauterbach@CHEMDEPT.CHEM.OU.EDU] Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 12:20 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: labcoats Greetings all, Does anyone have any protocols regarding wearing labcoats outside of the laboratory??? Our Safety Committee is torn between no restrictions to treating labcoats similar to gloves (which are not allowed outside of the laboratory). My thought is that when a labcoat is needed as PPE, it should be allowed. There is a concern of spreading contamination to seminar rooms and other public areas. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Susan L. Susan K. Lauterbach, M.S. Coordinator, Instructional Laboratories and Facility Safety University of Oklahoma Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry 620 Parrington Oval, Room 208 Norman, OK 73019 Phone: 405-325-2742 FAX: 405-325-6111 e-mail: sklauterbach@ou.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 01:48:30 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Debbie Decker Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride and Nursing (Vapor badges) In-Reply-To: <00b601bf11b8$dfa74800$2101010a@njs> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:13 AM 10/8/99 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks all for the info on CH2Cl2. > >To Sharon - who's cartridges do you use? I checked all the packaging >associated with ours and there is no list of vapors to avoid on any of it. >We bought the cartridges from LabSafety also. As far as I can see, there is >no such list in their catalog either. The packaging will tell you what the cartridge _is_ approved for - not necessarily what the cartridge is _not_ approved for. If you have questions about a particular chemical that isn't specifically on the _approved for_ list, contact the manufacturer of the cartridge/respirator. In my LabSafety catalog, there are brief lists of "approved for" chemicals in the cartridge descriptions. On posters from 3M and AO, there are more complete lists of approved chemicals and chemicals for which respirators are contraindicated. Your friendly mfr's rep (3M, MSA, AO, Survivair, etc.) should be able to provide you with poster(s) and/or detailed information. Distributor reps (LabSafety, Vallen, Brenton, etc.) don't always have this type of information available. Hope this helps. Deb. Debbie M. Decker, Health and Safety Specialist Environmental Health and Safety University of California, Davis 1 Shields Ave. Davis, CA 95616 (530)754-7964 (530)752-1493 dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:41:24 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Chaderjian, Caroline" Subject: Re: labcoats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Robert, "contaminated" meaning "potentially contaminated" and dedicated for lab use while working with specimens or potential source of contamination. To assure you don't wear the same lab coat to patient or public areas, changing to a clean coat is good practice or even just removing the lab coat. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Burns [mailto:RBURNS@RUETGERS-ORGANICS-CORP.COM] Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 1:22 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: labcoats If a lab coat is known to be contaminated, it should not be worn. "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 Fax 815 333 4805 -----Original Message----- From: Chaderjian, Caroline [mailto:Caroline.Chaderjian@MED.VA.GOV] Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 16:03 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: labcoats Susan, Wear contaminated lab coats INside the laboratory and change to a clean lab coat outside the laboratory....still used as PPE. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Lauterbach [mailto:sklauterbach@CHEMDEPT.CHEM.OU.EDU] Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 12:20 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: labcoats Greetings all, Does anyone have any protocols regarding wearing labcoats outside of the laboratory??? Our Safety Committee is torn between no restrictions to treating labcoats similar to gloves (which are not allowed outside of the laboratory). My thought is that when a labcoat is needed as PPE, it should be allowed. There is a concern of spreading contamination to seminar rooms and other public areas. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Susan L. Susan K. Lauterbach, M.S. Coordinator, Instructional Laboratories and Facility Safety University of Oklahoma Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry 620 Parrington Oval, Room 208 Norman, OK 73019 Phone: 405-325-2742 FAX: 405-325-6111 e-mail: sklauterbach@ou.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:00:12 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Brian Olson Subject: Chemical Transport - Know the Reg's!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Roneet, et al. Before telling your people they need a CDL or placard, or anything else, read Andy's email, as well as the complete 49CFR regulation for yourself, understand it, and give your delivery folks the proper training so they know how to apply the reg's to their situation. The "Material of Trade" definition [49CFR171.8(3)] will tell you if you can use it. Then...49CFR173.6 will tell you how and when (make sure your material is listed - as well as the maximum quantities). (as well as state and local) Below I offer the definition as well as a link to the regulation. 49CFR171.8 - Definition of "Material of Trade" Material of trade means a hazardous material, other than a hazardous waste, that is carried on a motor vehicle-- ...snip (3) By a private motor carrier (including vehicles operated by a rail carrier) in direct support of a principal business that is other than transportation by motor vehicle. 49CFR173.6 - Materials of trade exceptions. http://frwebgate2.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=1238028325+1 +0+0&WAISaction=retrieve This has been a topic on the Safety maillist since the reg was finalized. It continues to be a confusing reg that goes unknown to those that do not ship hazmat's regularly. More people should spend time to read, understand, and use it. Brian Olson Manager, EH&S Promega Corp. (biotech co.) Madison, WI ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 17:13:49 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Amy Gregory Subject: Re: labcoats In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991008141955.008a2c50@chemdept.chem.ou.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Since we are a small college, we have no regulation concerning where in the buildings a lab coat can be worn. But, we are not allowed to wear it home or take it home to be washed. Furthermore, if your facility is using toxins or radioactive chemicals, the lab coats should remain in the lab so that other areas are not contaminated. I have a "dirty" lab coat and a "clean" lab coat. The dirty lab coat is worn during use of toxins and the clean lab coat is used during lab audits, housekeeping, or when I'm doing non-hazardous duties (paperwork). However, neither lab coat leaves the building. Good Luck. Amy R. Gregory Lab Manager/NRCC--CHO Univ. of Cin./Clermont College At 02:19 PM 10/08/1999 -0500, you wrote: >Greetings all, > >Does anyone have any protocols regarding wearing labcoats outside of the >laboratory??? Our Safety Committee is torn between no restrictions to >treating labcoats similar to gloves (which are not allowed outside of the >laboratory). My thought is that when a labcoat is needed as PPE, it should >be allowed. There is a concern of spreading contamination to seminar rooms >and other public areas. > >Your thoughts would be appreciated. > >Susan L. > > > >Susan K. Lauterbach, M.S. >Coordinator, Instructional Laboratories and Facility Safety >University of Oklahoma >Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry >620 Parrington Oval, Room 208 >Norman, OK 73019 >Phone: 405-325-2742 >FAX: 405-325-6111 >e-mail: sklauterbach@ou.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 15:46:18 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Comments: RFC822 error: CC field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. Comments: RFC822 error: CC field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. Comments: RFC822 error: CC field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Swiki Anderson Subject: Re: Help/guidance: Containment Ventilation/required ACH/dilution in Labs Comments: cc: "Richard Boyer (E-mail)" , "Tom R. Lear (E-mail)" , "Warren L Zeigler (E-mail)" , "Young S. Shin P.E. (E-mail)" I ask for help and guidance from the group concerning the following two questions: 1. Are there any recommendations or dictates regarding a minimum number of air changes required in a laboratory, and if so, please provide them with references. 2. What are the logical bases for dictating minimums, i.e., reasons for establishing them and what should they be? (25, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4 ACH, and should this dictate include constant fume hood face velocity control or does this matter?) BACKGROUND I am aware of and appreciate the information that went across the List server around May of 1999 and the information that Don Abramowitz [dabramo1@SWARTMORE.EDU] provided in his posting of May 4, 1999. It dealt with OSHA 1910.106 standard (d), (4), (iv) dictating 6 air changes/hour concerning chemical storage rooms, and the desire to prevent accumulation of flammable/explosive concentrations of vapor. Now, please review my personal experience and background efforts and, if you find any flaws in my logic or thinking, please point them out to me and help me correct them as follows. We have and maintain a full scale, four fume hood working model mock that we experiment in and we allow the graduate ES&H students at Texas A&M University (TAMU) to use these facilities because TAMU lacks anything close to what we have. This facility is well instrumented for precise and accurate air and velocity measurements and we have the instrumentation needed for the ASHRAE 110 test (Miran 1A). Some time ago we set out to validate our logic concerning ACH and concentration in the laboratory workspace, conducted an experiment, and learned the following: (1) if sulfur hexafloride (HF6) is released in the work space, regardless of ACH (10,8,6,4), the concentration in the room builds up to some terminal value; (2) the rate of concentration build up depended on: (a) the liberation rate of HF6 (8,6,4 lpm), (b) where the emitter was positioned in the room, (c) where make up air was delivered in the room (all being exhausted through the four open fume hoods); and (d) the dilution rate. (3) the terminal value appeared to be somewhat the same regardless of liberation rate and dilution rate with the primary differences being how long it took to reach this terminal value and where in the room the room concentration was being measured. (4) concentration differed in the room depending on where the measurements were taken, i.e., "dead spots" or those in the stream line path between the discharge point of supply air introduced into the room and the fume hood faces. (5) the room was not purged with each "slug of air flow" associated with each air exchange rate, i.e., each ACH did not act like a "piston" to purge the fugitive emission from the space leaving no HF6 residue with each exchange. (6) in all cases it took a considerable amount of time to purge the tracer gas from the room, with room concentration decaying steadily after the e mitter gas released had ceased as long as the ACH were maintained. The amount of time for total flushing of the space differed in each case, even when the same liberation and ACH rate were the same. The room was not purged with each "slug of air flow" associated with each air exchange rate, i.e., each ACH did not act like a "piston" to purge the fugitive emission from the space leaving no HF6 residue with each exchange. The conclusions I reached were: (1) Having a fixed number of ACH in a room does not guarantee user protection if a spill or accidental release or unknown release occurs. If the goal is user protection, when a spill or accidental release occurs, have the occupants exit the room and hope that the room remains pressure negative to the adjacent hallways and work spaces as per NFPA 45. Purge will occur in time if the ACH are maintained, emission ceases, and no re-entry into the make up air stream occurs. (2) "Piston" like purge of fugitive emission in a room can only be possible in a room that resembles a wind tunnel where "slug flow" purges the entire space and entrains all fugitive emission released, provide recirculation does not occur. This situation is similar to the design intent of electron clean rooms and was the preferred embodiment espoused by the early ventilation design engineers that work with AEC laboratories in the 1940s, before air conditioning. (3) If work is conducted in a fume hood, installed in a room, where the goal of the ventilation system (system = room supply, air flow path, hood, hood exhaust, laboratory air flow control system) is containment ventilation in the hood, then 100% containment is possible without fugitive emission into the work space. For additional information refer to master thesis by Steven E. Lacey (slacey1@uic.edu), a graduate student of Dr. James C. Rock, Ph.D., P.E. (jrock@trinity.tamu.edu), Texas A&M University. Mr. Lacey is scheduled to complete publish his thesis and complete his degree in December 1999 and he is now pursuing the Ph.D. at the University of IL, Chicago. If you see any fault in my logic or conclusions regarding minimum number of air changes per hour in a room, kindly correct me so that I do not falsely advise someone that could possibly be injured in a laboratory because of exposure problems cause by my ignorance. Thank you, Swiki A. Anderson, Ph.D., P.E. Office: Swiki Anderson and Associates, Inc. 1516 Shiloh Ave., Bryan, TX 77803 v. 409.779-6068, x11; f -6085; 800.949-1996 website: http://saai-svc.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:47:05 +1000 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Philip Turner Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride and Nursing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you try to monitor exposure with a badge note that sampling for methylene chloride is not straightforward. You will always require a badge with a back-up section in a poorly characterised environment, but there is an additional reason with MeCl because activated charcoal has a poor affinity for the compound. If you use 3M 3520 badges refer to 3M Tech Data Bulletin 71 before sampling. If you do active sampling with a pump two separate charcoal tubes are required to prevent MeCl from migrating from the primary section to the back up section after sampling and appearing to show breakthrough (overloaded and therefore invalid sample). MeCl is not listed by ACGIH as having a high potential for skin absorption, but there are also biological monitoring methods available. ================================================= Philip Turner CIH, Occupational Hygienist WorkPlace Environment Consultants PO Box A95 Telephone: (02) 9963-5355 SYDNEY SOUTH NSW 1235 Facsimile: (02) 9550-6532 AUSTRALIA philipturner@optusnet.com.au ================================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Reed To: Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 7:39 AM Subject: Methylene Chloride and Nursing > I have a new hire who is breast feeding and is assigned to do methylene chloride > extractions in the one QA lab in my building. She has requested respirator use > because she read in an MSDS that MeCl can get into breast milk. Obviously, > there is no respirator cartridge for MeCl, so this is not a solution. The MSDS > that made the statement is a Fisher Scientific MSDS form 1992..... their current > one makes no such claim. Where can I get more information on the toxicity > studies that might have engendered the statement on the one MSDS? Like, I would > like to know if MeCl was found in breastmilk when the mother was exposed to > concentrations in excess of the old PEL, for instance. We certainly keep > exposure levels way down below 25 ppm. And any thoughts on what I ought to do > to adequately protect her and her baby? > > She uses a hood and PVA gloves. I may try to monitor her exposure with a > monitor badge.... or I may just tell her supervisor to give her other work till > she's done nursing (not easy, but do-able). Any suggestions? > > Sharon > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:24:42 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Sharon Reed Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride and Nursing (Vapor badges) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Nick... and all other interested parties.... we use Willson respirators and cartridges. Sharon Nick Spare cc: (bcc: Sharon Reed/PEDNY/Pall/US) 10/08/99 02:13 PM Subject: Re: Methylene Please respond to Chloride and Nursing (Vapor LABSAFETY-L badges) Discussion List Thanks all for the info on CH2Cl2. To Sharon - who's cartridges do you use? I checked all the packaging associated with ours and there is no list of vapors to avoid on any of it. We bought the cartridges from LabSafety also. As far as I can see, there is no such list in their catalog either. Thanks again Nick Spare Pilot Chemical -----Original Message----- From: Don Abramowitz To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Date: Friday, October 08, 1999 10:51 AM Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride and Nursing (Vapor badges) >>One other question while we're on the subject of CH2Cl2 - are the usual >>vapor badges used for air monitoring accurate for a material whose vapor is >>so much heavier than air? > >The density of a gas or vapor compared to air is not a predictor for the >performance of a vapor badge (or active sampling via charcoal tubes, or for >any direct reading instrument I can think of). For example, there are >fully validated vapor badges (passive monitors) for mercury vapor out >there, and vapors don't get much denser than this. > >The thing bear in mind is that at say, 20 ppm of methylene chloride, the >density of the contaminated air is not significantly different from that of >uncontaminated air, and the methylene chloride-containing air will mix >freely and carry along with the movement of surrounding air. The higher >molecular weight molecules won't settle out of the air like dust particles. > > >On the other hand, air containing high vapor concentrations, like the area >just above the surface of a gasoline spill, will behave differently than >the surrounding air as the density difference is significant, and that >layer of air will indeed stay low and follow the path of gravity. (That >first millimeter or two above the surface is likely a saturated >atmosphere.) > >At the same time, that dense layer is free to mix with the surrounding air >via air currents, diffusion, etc. - thus the smell of gasoline at nose >height when a little spills on the ground. (Not that I personally would >ever spill any - just heard about it somewhere :-) ) > >Hope this helps. > > Don > >"Badges? We don't got to show you any stinkin' badges." > - Unrecalled actor in "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre." > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ > Donald Abramowitz, CIH > Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer > > Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College > 101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue > Bryn Mawr PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081 > (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:53:50 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Don Abramowitz Subject: Re: Help/guidance: Containment Ventilation/required ACH/dilution in Labs In-Reply-To: <01BF126D.6DB6E060.swiki@bihs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 1. Are there any recommendations or dictates regarding a minimum number of >air changes required in a laboratory, and if so, please provide them with >references. Swiki , I agree with your three conclusions. The quandary for me is that in our labs, work occurs on lab benches as well as in hoods, with varying emission rates. If I could get everyone in our labs to agree to not even open the cap on a chemical bottle outside of a hood, life woud be simple. Truth is, some degree of chemical handling and storage will take place outside the hoods, so there is a desire for some general, dilution ventilation/air exchange in the labs. Quantifying that dilution factor, in air changes an hour or other unit remains elusive, in part because it is likely impossible to quantify the benchtop emissions in a lab with continuously varying activities and materials. Still, it seems worthwhile to me, in designing a chemistry lab, to provide some degree of general ventilation, "to keep the stink down", as I've heard non -chemists express it. Don ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Donald Abramowitz, CIH Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College 101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue Bryn Mawr PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:09:20 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: Methylene Chloride and Nursing In-Reply-To: <001301bf1368$ff881c60$9ed48ec6@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Philip, Thanks for reminding us that sampling for MeCl2 is not cut and dried. My reason for writing is to comment on the following statement, that the ACGIH has not commented on skin absorption of MeCl2. In a fairly simple experiment, not recommended due to it's suspect cancer potential, when a finger is placed in MeCl2, within a minute or so MeCl2 can be detected in the expired breath. In what amount I do not know. Almost 50 years ago for my thesis work, I was working with MeCl2 as a reaction solvent in a tiny, hoodless room. Pipetting by mouth. So far I am in good health; at the time I had some concern about my liver, but up to a point that organ is pretty resilient. Mary Ann >MeCl is not listed by ACGIH as having a high potential for skin absorption, >but there are also biological monitoring methods available. > >================================================= >Philip Turner CIH, Occupational Hygienist >WorkPlace Environment Consultants >PO Box A95 Telephone: (02) >9963-5355 >SYDNEY SOUTH NSW 1235 Facsimile: (02) 9550-6532 >AUSTRALIA >philipturner@optusnet.com.au >================================================= > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Sharon Reed >To: >Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 7:39 AM >Subject: Methylene Chloride and Nursing > > >> I have a new hire who is breast feeding and is assigned to do methylene >chloride >> extractions in the one QA lab in my building. She has requested >respirator use >> because she read in an MSDS that MeCl can get into breast milk. >Obviously, >> there is no respirator cartridge for MeCl, so this is not a solution. >The MSDS >> that made the statement is a Fisher Scientific MSDS form 1992..... their >current >> one makes no such claim. Where can I get more information on the toxicity >> studies that might have engendered the statement on the one MSDS? Like, I >would >> like to know if MeCl was found in breastmilk when the mother was exposed >to >> concentrations in excess of the old PEL, for instance. We certainly keep >> exposure levels way down below 25 ppm. And any thoughts on what I ought >to do >> to adequately protect her and her baby? >> >> She uses a hood and PVA gloves. I may try to monitor her exposure with a >> monitor badge.... or I may just tell her supervisor to give her other work >till >> she's done nursing (not easy, but do-able). Any suggestions? >> >> Sharon >> > Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority Past Chair, DivCHAS, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:47:52 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Paula Ortiz Subject: Re: labcoats In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991008141955.008a2c50@chemdept.chem.ou.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We do not permit our instructors nor our students to wear lab coats outside of the laboratory environment. We also use disposable laboratory coats which are discarded when contamination occurs or at the end of each quarter. Thanks Paula Paula Ortiz, MEd, NRCC-CHO, CPT Science Laboratory Heatlh & Safety Coordinator Chemical Hygiene Officer Washington State Community College 710 Colegate Drive Marietta, Ohio 45750 Phone: 740.374.8716 X679 At 02:19 PM 10/8/99 -0500, you wrote: >Greetings all, > >Does anyone have any protocols regarding wearing labcoats outside of the >laboratory??? Our Safety Committee is torn between no restrictions to >treating labcoats similar to gloves (which are not allowed outside of the >laboratory). My thought is that when a labcoat is needed as PPE, it should >be allowed. There is a concern of spreading contamination to seminar rooms >and other public areas. > >Your thoughts would be appreciated. > >Susan L. > > > >Susan K. Lauterbach, M.S. >Coordinator, Instructional Laboratories and Facility Safety >University of Oklahoma >Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry >620 Parrington Oval, Room 208 >Norman, OK 73019 >Phone: 405-325-2742 >FAX: 405-325-6111 >e-mail: sklauterbach@ou.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:58:49 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Swiki Anderson Subject: Re: Help/guidance: Containment Ventilation/required ACH/dilution in Labs Don, thanks for the comments. My point however is that by specifying so many air changes per hour we impute an illusion of safety that comes hand in hand with the premise that concentration in a room is reduced by increased number of air changes. This is not always correct. For example we did a preliminary study in a chemical plant lab where sample bombs were brought in an stored on a countertop until use. The valves on the devices always seem to leak and this was the source of blame for the toxic emissions at elevated levels in the lab. So what did they blame, the fume hood of course. If we want no emissions in the room, then we need to guarantee that operations, to include opening of bottles, etc. is done in a ventilation containment device such as a fume hood. If the hood is design correctly and the laboratory air flow control system is also designed correctly and working properly (see the four point in the SCHEMA paper, "Lessons from the Old Saints.." at http://www.saai-svc.com/engineer/html/tech-notes/htm ) then we can have containment in the hood and a lab work space the is free of emissions. This is what the guys in the ACE era did. Some how with the passage of time we have forgotten what they learned, and this is a shame. Now with regards to a minimum ventilation rate in a lab, it has been my experience in doing laboratory design and commissioning for the past 20 years since I left the teaching profession, that ventilation system demands always exceed the comfort conditioning air flow requirements and it is hard from me to imagine anything less than 4 ACH under any conditions. What I don't understand is why some highly educated professionals can only give me the "We do it this way" answer when I question why and know that these well meaning individuals are fooling themselves. To me it is kind of like flying an airplane into instruments conditions and kidding yourself when you know the instruments are fault. In this situation however, instead of the pilot killing himself, it is most often the lab worker who looks with trust to the pilot, assuming he is protected. Besides, sometime stink is the only warning you get... We can do better... Swiki A. Anderson, Ph.D., P.E. Office: Swiki Anderson and Associates, Inc. 1516 Shiloh Ave., Bryan, TX 77803 v. 409.779-6068, x11; f -6085; 800.949-1996 website: http://saai-svc.com -----Original Message----- From: Don Abramowitz [SMTP:dabramo1@SWARTHMORE.EDU] Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 8:54 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Help/guidance: Containment Ventilation/required ACH/dilution in Labs 1. Are there any recommendations or dictates regarding a minimum number of >air changes required in a laboratory, and if so, please provide them with >references. Swiki , I agree with your three conclusions. The quandary for me is that in our labs, work occurs on lab benches as well as in hoods, with varying emission rates. If I could get everyone in our labs to agree to not even open the cap on a chemical bottle outside of a hood, life woud be simple. Truth is, some degree of chemical handling and storage will take place outside the hoods, so there is a desire for some general, dilution ventilation/air exchange in the labs. Quantifying that dilution factor, in air changes an hour or other unit remains elusive, in part because it is likely impossible to quantify the benchtop emissions in a lab with continuously varying activities and materials. Still, it seems worthwhile to me, in designing a chemistry lab, to provide some degree of general ventilation, "to keep the stink down", as I've heard non -chemists express it. Don ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~ Donald Abramowitz, CIH Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College 101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue Bryn Mawr PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:22:33 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: STACY CARTER Subject: Re: Unsubscribing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii SIGNOFF LABSAFETY-L --- Labsafe@AOL.COM wrote: > Hi NACHOs, > > If you decide you wish to "resign" from the > association, the "resignation" > directions are at the LSW web site on the NACHO > pages. ... jim > > > ***************************************************** > James A. Kaufman, Director > The Laboratory Safety Workshop > Safety in Science Education > 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA > 01760 > 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 Cell: > 508-574-6264 > Email: labsafe@aol.com Web Site: > http://www.labsafety.org/ > > > ****************************************************** > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:31:09 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Tayman, Tammy" Subject: Formalin peroxides? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Here's a question someone in my department has raised: Does formalin (37% formaldehyde in water) form peroxides? My initial reaction is no, but upon investigating I have found some very inconclusive information that indicates maybe I'm wrong. Anyone out there have a good answer? Thanks, Tammy Tayman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:09:07 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Dave Gelpke Subject: Fluorescent microscopes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Does anyone have any experience with flourscent microscopes from a safety and health point of view. I know the scope is capable of creating ozone and, I believe, light leaks are a concern regarding UV. Any guidance regarding the best way to control the ozone and light leaks? Are there other concerns? I would appreciate any advice or guidance. Thanks in advance. Dave Gelpke Packard BioScience Co dgelpke@canberra.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:50:02 +0000 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: BRIAN MCSHANE Subject: Air Changes per Hour MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Everyone, I have just recently joined the List. My name is Brian McShane and I am the CHO (among other things) for Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, Inc. in Tarrytown, New York. It appears I've come in on the back end of a discussion of dilution ventilation and apologize if the following questions relating to air changes per hour are redundant. Does anyone have a reference that discusses recommended air changes per hour in a typical laboratory? Are there any regulatory standards addressing this for laboratories? What is standard industry practice? We are currently undergoing an energy assessment and one of the recommendations is to shut the air handling units down from 10 PM to 7 AM every night. There will be a manual override available to turn the units on if someone needs to work during these hours (which is discouraged). We plan to keep the fume hoods operating continuously. (I've looked at ASHRAE 62-1989 which only talks about cfm per person of fresh air and checked the federal register but only found info on TB, asbestos etc.) Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks. Brian McShane, CIH brian.mcshane@regpha.com 914 345 7466 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:10:05 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mark Yanchisin Subject: NFPA 704 Labeling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Greetings! I am looking fore some insight from your collective wisdom and experience. I hope this does not get too confusing. This is extremely complex, but I will try to simplify it, but hopefully not too much. Fire safety is not my specialty. Our State Fire Marshal has been citing the campus for not having chemical storage rooms labeled with the NFPA 704 diamond. These rooms would house many chemicals, but all the same hazards (flammables in one room, acid storage in another, pesticides in another, etc). We have signs on the doors stating what is in the room (flams, acids etc) but now have been required to put up an NFPA diamond too. With 4 chemicals in the room, we could have 4 separate NFPA classifications. I was told to list all the Blue, Red, Yellow numbers and take the highest numbers and put a placard up with that. My feelings are that this is not representative of the true nature of the stuff in the room, as there would be nothing in the rooms with the final placard labeling. The examples below could be for flammable and acid storage rooms: Chemical Blue Red Yellow Chemical Blue Red Yellow Ethanol 0 3 0 Hydrochloric 3 0 0 Pet. Ether 1 4 0 Sulfuric 3 0 1 Xylene 2 3 0 Formic 3 2 0 Pentane 1 4 0 Nitric 2 0 1 Sign: 2 4 1 Sign 3 2 1 The above example may have caused confusion, but our Haz Waste facility will positively scare the hell out of you when you look at the signage. We had to put up a placard with Blue-4 Red-4 Yellow-4 and special handling- Radioactive, Oxidizer, Corrosive, Acid, Water reactive. (Yes- we can have all that in the building, but if so, they are all segregated, packed and stored independently of one another.) On top of that- with every shipment of waste going out- it can and will change. We were told the one sign is good enough as long as we have waste in the building. This would be the worse case scenario- and if it was a lesser hazard- it would be better- but no one would know that by the signage as we were told not to change it!! I am not 100% comfortable with this. This is not my understanding of how the system is supposed to work. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is it OK to do this? Is taking the highest numbers and treating the rooms at that OK? My on campus fire safety coordinator deferred to the Fire Marshal and said to make the signs. I am hesitant to get the local fire department involved as they may muddy the waters even more. All thoughts appreciated!! Thanks in advance for your thoughts! Mark Yanchisin Coordinator for Clinical and Lab Safety Programs University of Florida Env. Health and Safety PO Box 112195 Building 104 Gainesville, FL 32611-2195 352-392-1591 (T) 352-392-3414 (F) Mark@ehs.ufl.edu have gotten no support from the on campus fire safety officer (one of my co-workers here at EH&S) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 07:29:17 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Greene, Ben" Subject: Re: NFPA 704 Labeling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Mark - have you looked at NFPA 49 "Hazardous Chemicals Data"? It provides the hazards ratings for a number of chemicals in accordance with NFPA 704. Try cross checking some of your ratings with NFPA 49. Also, the fire department may appreciate that you have used NFPA 49 as a reference, and put you on a common solid (not muddy) ground. Ben Greene AlliedSignal ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:30:31 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Wawrzeniak Subject: Safety awareness program calendar Comments: To: LabSafe@aol.com, safety@list.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, I know that this may have been discussed before, but I am searching for a list of all of the safety awareness programs that are promoted during the year (for example fire prevention week 10/3-9, etc). If you have any information or can forward the list to me, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance. Jeff FAATC fx: 609-485-6102 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:58:14 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Warren C. Pinches" Subject: Re: NFPA 704 Labeling Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Since the signs are primarily to communicate with emergency responders such as the fire department, finding out what they want should be paramount. In my facility we use a single NFPA diamond on these areas, and yes, we do have many 4-4-3 and even 4-4-4 signs. (It's also a requirement of our state hazardous waste regulations.) As long as the fire department understands that these are rooms containing many small and well-segregated containers, the fact that the sign does not reflect any single container in the room is OK with them. After you put up these signs, you should invite the fire department in for a tour. I do this every year or two; they usually send their entire force (in rotation) so every firefighter gets to know our facility. (Obviously it's not a large city.) Once they see our chemical management procedures and fire prevention system, it makes them much more comfortable even with "4-4-4" areas. What frightens them is going into a completely unknown facility. Warren C. Pinches, CSP, CHMM Purely personal opinions asked for and wanted by no one else. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:12:54 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Jeffery S. Stewart" Organization: Morehead State University Subject: Re: NFPA 704 Labeling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E779F52DCE2A805A7A19D63A" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E779F52DCE2A805A7A19D63A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark, Here at MSU we do exactly what Warren does at his facility. I have numerous 4-4-4 signs up, especially on our main chemical storage area for all of our science labs. There are hundreds of chemicals in this room, so there would be no way to have all of those signs on a door. I give tours of the facility annually to members of the fire department paying special attention to rooms with plutonium, hydrofluoric acid, pure sodium, etc...and other special hazardous areas. I also provide them with blueprints of the science buildings along with the chemicals written in on the room where they are contained. They have the master inventory also of all chemicals located on campus. Hope this helps you out. Jeff Stewart, RSO/CHO Coordinator, Env. Health & Safety Industrial Hygienist Morehead State University "Warren C. Pinches" wrote: > Since the signs are primarily to communicate with emergency responders such as > the fire department, finding out what they want should be paramount. In my > facility we use a single NFPA diamond on these areas, and yes, we do have many > 4-4-3 and even 4-4-4 signs. (It's also a requirement of our state hazardous > waste regulations.) As long as the fire department understands that these are > rooms containing many small and well-segregated containers, the fact that the > sign does not reflect any single container in the room is OK with them. > > After you put up these signs, you should invite the fire department in for a > tour. I do this every year or two; they usually send their entire force (in > rotation) so every firefighter gets to know our facility. (Obviously it's not a > large city.) Once they see our chemical management procedures and fire > prevention system, it makes them much more comfortable even with "4-4-4" areas. > What frightens them is going into a completely unknown facility. > > Warren C. Pinches, CSP, CHMM > Purely personal opinions asked for and wanted by no one else. --------------E779F52DCE2A805A7A19D63A Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="j.stewart.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Jeffery S. Stewart Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="j.stewart.vcf" begin:vcard n:Stewart;Jeffery tel;fax:606-783-2359 tel;work:606-783-2179 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Morehead State University;Environmental Health & Safety version:2.1 email;internet:j.stewart@morehead-st.edu title:Env. Health & Safety Coordinator/RSO/Industrial Hygienist adr;quoted-printable:;;213 Downing Hall=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A;Morehead;Kentucky;40351; x-mozilla-cpt:;-27568 fn:Jeffery S. Stewart end:vcard --------------E779F52DCE2A805A7A19D63A-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:14:00 +0000 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Barb Moore Subject: Re: Air Changes per Hour In-Reply-To: <991013.085002@regpha.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We just had our stock room fitted with air handling equipment and BWC (Bureau of Workmans Comp in Ohio) checked it out. This is not a general laboratory, but the information might be of help. From their evaluation "The volume of airflow through the room is considered substantial based on the reported design of five (5) air changes per hour. By comparison, an industrial falmmables storage room required a minimum of 6 air changes per hour." When reseraching this, we used OSHA 1910.106(d)(4)(iv) "Ventilation." Eery inside storage room shall be provided with either a gravity or a mechanical exhaust ventilation system. Such system shall be designed to provide for a complete changae of air within the room at least 6 times per hour. If a mechanical exhuast system is sued, it shall be controlled by a switch located outside of the door. The ventilating equipoment and any lighting fixtures shall be operated by the same switch. A pilot light shall be installed adjacent to the switch if Class I flammable liquids are dispensed within the room. Where gravity ventilation is provided, the fresh air intake, as well as the exhuast outlet from the room, shall be on the exterior of the building in which the room is located." Hope this is of help ---------- Barbara Moore 330-263-2379 Administrative Manager FAX 330-263-2378 Biology Dept bmoore@acs.wooster.edu College of Wooster http://www.wooster.edu/biology Wooster, OH 44691 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:23:42 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "L. James Stock III" <34EMQ6K@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Subject: Re: Formalin peroxides? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" 37% Formaldehyde solution in water will polymerize to form solid paraformaldehyde especially at cooler temperatures. I see it all the time. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:47:28 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Stockroom Manager Subject: Re: Fluorescent microscopes Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit OSHA has a TWA of 0.1 ppm for ozone. It may be worthwhile to monitor the workspace at one of these microscopes. Although it does not substitute for monitoring, the sense of smell can be used to detect ozone, which has an odor similar to what is in the air during a lightning storm, or the odor of the static electricity you get from taking clothes from the drying or wiping a television screen. I am not sure of the odor threshold for ozone, but the NIOSH IDLH is 5 ppm. Surely we are not endangering our lives when we rub a sock on a sweater??? Of course the best way to control the ozone is to eliminate the source of it. Beyond that, dilution ventilation in terms of a small fan set up on the counter top to blow past the the microscope (90 degrees to the user) would probably be sufficient to reduce the ozone to a level below the TWA in the worker's envelope. Chad Bennett Vermeer Science Center Stockroom Mgr/Environmental Compliance Officer Central College Pella, Iowa ---------- >From: Dave Gelpke >To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >Subject: Fluorescent microscopes >Date: Wed, Oct 13, 1999, 6:09 AM > >Does anyone have any experience with flourscent microscopes from a safety and >health point of view. I know the scope is capable of creating ozone and, I >believe, light leaks are a concern regarding UV. Any guidance regarding the >best way to control the ozone and light leaks? Are there other concerns? I >would appreciate any advice or guidance. Thanks in advance. >Dave Gelpke >Packard BioScience Co >dgelpke@canberra.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:00:42 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Gillian Gardner Subject: Re: NFPA 704 Labeling In-Reply-To: <435ACBA4E161D1118AC7006008A057A05A055B@ehs-nts1.ehs.ufl.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII That's the way we've been told to do it, also. Gillian Gardner On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Mark Yanchisin wrote: > Greetings! > > I am looking fore some insight from your collective wisdom and experience. > I hope this does not get too confusing. This is extremely complex, but I > will try to simplify it, but hopefully not too much. Fire safety is not my > specialty. > > Our State Fire Marshal has been citing the campus for not having chemical > storage rooms labeled with the NFPA 704 diamond. These rooms would house > many chemicals, but all the same hazards (flammables in one room, acid > storage in another, pesticides in another, etc). We have signs on the doors > stating what is in the room (flams, acids etc) but now have been required to > put up an NFPA diamond too. > > With 4 chemicals in the room, we could have 4 separate NFPA classifications. > I was told to list all the Blue, Red, Yellow numbers and take the highest > numbers and put a placard up with that. My feelings are that this is not > representative of the true nature of the stuff in the room, as there would > be nothing in the rooms with the final placard labeling. The examples below > could be for flammable and acid storage rooms: > > Chemical Blue Red Yellow Chemical Blue > Red Yellow > > Ethanol 0 3 0 Hydrochloric 3 0 > 0 > Pet. Ether 1 4 0 Sulfuric > 3 0 1 > Xylene 2 3 0 Formic 3 2 > 0 > Pentane 1 4 0 Nitric 2 0 > 1 > > Sign: 2 4 1 Sign 3 2 1 > > The above example may have caused confusion, but our Haz Waste facility will > positively scare the hell out of you when you look at the signage. We had > to put up a placard with Blue-4 Red-4 Yellow-4 and special handling- > Radioactive, Oxidizer, Corrosive, Acid, Water reactive. (Yes- we can have > all that in the building, but if so, they are all segregated, packed and > stored independently of one another.) On top of that- with every shipment of > waste going out- it can and will change. We were told the one sign is good > enough as long as we have waste in the building. This would be the worse > case scenario- and if it was a lesser hazard- it would be better- but no one > would know that by the signage as we were told not to change it!! > > I am not 100% comfortable with this. This is not my understanding of how > the system is supposed to work. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is > it OK to do this? Is taking the highest numbers and treating the rooms at > that OK? My on campus fire safety coordinator deferred to the Fire Marshal > and said to make the signs. I am hesitant to get the local fire department > involved as they may muddy the waters even more. All thoughts appreciated!! > Thanks in advance for your thoughts! > > Mark Yanchisin > Coordinator for Clinical and Lab Safety > Programs > University of Florida Env. Health and Safety > PO Box 112195 Building 104 > Gainesville, FL 32611-2195 > 352-392-1591 (T) > 352-392-3414 (F) > Mark@ehs.ufl.edu > > > > > > > > have gotten no support from the on campus fire safety officer (one of my > co-workers here at EH&S) > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:09:26 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Sharon Reed Subject: Re: Fluorescent microscopes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Concerning your exposure to ozone while removing socks from the dryer.... (hey, I wondered about it myself after Chad Bennett mentioned it!). My copy of "Odor Thresholds for Chemicals with Established Occupational Health Standards" from AIHA suggests that for ozone, an odor threshold range of 0.0076-0.036 ppm has been found in various studies. These values suggest we smell it at a concentration far below the PEL of 0.1 ppm. Sharon Reed Safety Officer, PED Pall Corporation Cortland NY 13045 Sharon_Reed@pall.com 607-753-6041 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:38:35 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Stockroom Manager Subject: Help With Government Publications Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Can anyone help me with getting a copy of EPA federal regs. Specifically I would like copies of 40 CFR 190-299. That should come in three different bound books. I did not have luck with the EPA publications website, because these are not considered EPA publications. I had terrible luck navigating the Government Printing Office (GPO) website and after 30 minutes or so of confusion and dead ends, I just wanted a phone number so I could talk to a human; however, no GPO phone number was listed at their website. Now, back to the EPA publications website, where finally I found a number for the EPA publications office, but they did not have the number to the GPO, so they gave me a number for the "library" at my regional EPA office. The guy there said they did not distribute anything, and when I asked him for a phone number to the GPO or another appropriate source for publications, he had to do research and finally called me back with the GPO's number. After several attempts I finally got through to the GPO, but they said I couldn't get anything for free. They referred me to the Office of the Federal Register. After getting ahold of OFR, the guy there agreed that I was entitled to one free copy of federal regulations, but he said they didn't distribute federal regs, they only edit them. He suggested I go the GPO website!!! Hello! Even if the GPO website were user friendly, the problem is that I want these regs in a bound book, not thousands of sheets of printer paper. I have had older copies of these in the past but I do not recall how they were acquired. I was sure that anyone who requests them is entitled to a bound copy of certain federal regs. Isn't this true? And if so, how can I simply request these without wading through webpages and making dozens of phone calls. Please help me out of this bureaucratic conundrum! Chad Bennett Vermeer Science Center Stockroom Mgr./Environmental Compliance Officer Central College Pella, IA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:19:13 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Christine Gourlie Subject: Re: Help With Government Publications In-Reply-To: <199910131938.OAA94814@saluki-mailsmtp.siu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Chad - from the inside cover of my CFR it says: For sale by the US Government Printing Office Superintendent of Documents, Mail Stop: SSOP Washington, D.C. 20402-9328 Hope this helps, although sounds like you tried the GPO already... My copies were here when I got here, but I'll try to find out where they came from. Good Luck! Christine ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:17:15 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Jeffery S. Stewart" Organization: Morehead State University Subject: Re: Help With Government Publications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stockroom Manager, You need to call (202) 512-1800, Superintendent of Printing. The cost for Haz Waste regs you are referring is about $55. They are in bound copies. I don't know of any EPA regs that are free. State OSHA regs are free if you call the office. Hope this helps you out. Jeff Stewart, RSO/CHO Coordinator, Env. Health & Safety Industrial Hygienist Morehead State University Stockroom Manager wrote: > Can anyone help me with getting a copy of EPA federal regs. Specifically I > would like copies of 40 CFR 190-299. That should come in three different > bound books. I did not have luck with the EPA publications website, because > these are not considered EPA publications. I had terrible luck navigating > the Government Printing Office (GPO) website and after 30 minutes or so of > confusion and dead ends, I just wanted a phone number so I could talk to a > human; however, no GPO phone number was listed at their website. Now, back > to the EPA publications website, where finally I found a number for the EPA > publications office, but they did not have the number to the GPO, so they > gave me a number for the "library" at my regional EPA office. The guy there > said they did not distribute anything, and when I asked him for a phone > number to the GPO or another appropriate source for publications, he had to > do research and finally called me back with the GPO's number. After several > attempts I finally got through to the GPO, but they said I couldn't get > anything for free. They referred me to the Office of the Federal Register. > After getting ahold of OFR, the guy there agreed that I was entitled to one > free copy of federal regulations, but he said they didn't distribute federal > regs, they only edit them. He suggested I go the GPO website!!! Hello! > > Even if the GPO website were user friendly, the problem is that I want these > regs in a bound book, not thousands of sheets of printer paper. I have had > older copies of these in the past but I do not recall how they were > acquired. I was sure that anyone who requests them is entitled to a bound > copy of certain federal regs. Isn't this true? And if so, how can I simply > request these without wading through webpages and making dozens of phone > calls. > > Please help me out of this bureaucratic conundrum! > > Chad Bennett > Vermeer Science Center Stockroom Mgr./Environmental Compliance Officer > Central College > Pella, IA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:32:38 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Sharon Reed Subject: Re: Help With Government Publications Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I get mine from my local college library, which happens to be the area government depository and has ALL the latest editions; therefore, they throw away last years editions. I don't mind being a year behind; if I need the latest of a particular CFR, THEN I pull it off the internet (like, my recent problem with Methylene chloride.. I pulled the new MeCl reg, 29 CFR 1910.1052, off the net). It might be a solution for some people on the listserv, anyway. Sharon Reed Safety Officer, PED Pall Corporation Cortland, NY 13045 607-753-6041, x2743 Sharon_Reed@pall.com "If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:33:04 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Roger Delong Subject: Re: Help With Government Publications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Chad, For low cost CFRs try: http://www.env-sol.com/solutions/CFR.HTML Hope that this solves your problem. > -----Original Message----- > From: Stockroom Manager [SMTP:stockroom@CENTRAL.EDU] > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 1:39 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Help With Government Publications > > Can anyone help me with getting a copy of EPA federal regs. > Specifically I > > >snip ! > Chad Bennett > Vermeer Science Center Stockroom Mgr./Environmental Compliance Officer > Central College > Pella, IA > > > Roger DeLong Safety Supervisor Pacific Scientific - Energetic Materials Company 7073 W. Willis Drive Box 5002 Chandler, AZ 85226-5111 Ph. 1-520-796-1100 Fax. 1-520-796-2024 rdelong@psedd.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:37:03 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: stefan Subject: Re: Help With Government Publications In-Reply-To: <199910131938.OAA94814@saluki-mailsmtp.siu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Try Government Institutes Rockville MD (301) 921-2323 phone orders They also do P.O.'s, and checks. I just received their latest catalog which includes bound copies of Titles 1-50 of the CFRs. Stefan Wawzyniecki, CIH Chemical Health & Safety University of Connecticut ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:57:06 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Elizabeth Smith Subject: Re: Help With Government Publications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/index.html is the GOP - specifically, the national archive, which is where the searchable section for the entire CFR is. The GOP's phone number is: 202-275-3318. Hard copies are available through some lab safety suppliers (I think I got mine from Lab Safety Supply?? but am not sure - they can probably tell you, though.) Elizabeth Smith Environmental, Health & Safety BioPort Corporation Lansing, MI 48906 517-327-1590 -----Original Message----- From: Stockroom Manager To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 3:55 PM Subject: Help With Government Publications >Can anyone help me with getting a copy of EPA federal regs. Specifically I >would like copies of 40 CFR 190-299. That should come in three different >bound books. I did not have luck with the EPA publications website, because >these are not considered EPA publications. I had terrible luck navigating >the Government Printing Office (GPO) website and after 30 minutes or so of >confusion and dead ends, I just wanted a phone number so I could talk to a >human; however, no GPO phone number was listed at their website. Now, back >to the EPA publications website, where finally I found a number for the EPA >publications office, but they did not have the number to the GPO, so they >gave me a number for the "library" at my regional EPA office. The guy there >said they did not distribute anything, and when I asked him for a phone >number to the GPO or another appropriate source for publications, he had to >do research and finally called me back with the GPO's number. After several >attempts I finally got through to the GPO, but they said I couldn't get >anything for free. They referred me to the Office of the Federal Register. >After getting ahold of OFR, the guy there agreed that I was entitled to one >free copy of federal regulations, but he said they didn't distribute federal >regs, they only edit them. He suggested I go the GPO website!!! Hello! > >Even if the GPO website were user friendly, the problem is that I want these >regs in a bound book, not thousands of sheets of printer paper. I have had >older copies of these in the past but I do not recall how they were >acquired. I was sure that anyone who requests them is entitled to a bound >copy of certain federal regs. Isn't this true? And if so, how can I simply >request these without wading through webpages and making dozens of phone >calls. > >Please help me out of this bureaucratic conundrum! > >Chad Bennett >Vermeer Science Center Stockroom Mgr./Environmental Compliance Officer >Central College >Pella, IA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:06:11 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Linda Swihart Subject: Re: Help With Government Publications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe I'm getting something wrong here, but I went to http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfr-table-search.html and clicked on Title 40 July 1999 which took me to a script-generated list which I don't know if it will provide a clickable link from email or not, but it contains sections of multiple parts, including 190 - 259 and 266 - 299. When I click on the link to 199 - 259 I get separate links to each part, see http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_99/40cfrv17_99.html and clicking on a link to a single part gives links to separate subparts as PDF files or text documents, e.g. http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_99/40cfr190_99.html http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_99/40cfr191_99.html http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_99/40cfr192_99.html It's not particularly convenient to have it all chopped into bitsy pieces, but it seems to be there. Linda Stockroom Manager wrote: > Can anyone help me with getting a copy of EPA federal regs. Specifically I > would like copies of 40 CFR 190-299. That should come in three different > bound books. I did not have luck with the EPA publications website, because > these are not considered EPA publications. I had terrible luck navigating > the Government Printing Office (GPO) website and after 30 minutes or so of > confusion and dead ends, I just wanted a phone number so I could talk to a > human; however, no GPO phone number was listed at their website. Now, back > to the EPA publications website, where finally I found a number for the EPA > publications office, but they did not have the number to the GPO, so they > gave me a number for the "library" at my regional EPA office. The guy there > said they did not distribute anything, and when I asked him for a phone > number to the GPO or another appropriate source for publications, he had to > do research and finally called me back with the GPO's number. After several > attempts I finally got through to the GPO, but they said I couldn't get > anything for free. They referred me to the Office of the Federal Register. > After getting ahold of OFR, the guy there agreed that I was entitled to one > free copy of federal regulations, but he said they didn't distribute federal > regs, they only edit them. He suggested I go the GPO website!!! Hello! > > Even if the GPO website were user friendly, the problem is that I want these > regs in a bound book, not thousands of sheets of printer paper. I have had > older copies of these in the past but I do not recall how they were > acquired. I was sure that anyone who requests them is entitled to a bound > copy of certain federal regs. Isn't this true? And if so, how can I simply > request these without wading through webpages and making dozens of phone > calls. > > Please help me out of this bureaucratic conundrum! > > Chad Bennett > Vermeer Science Center Stockroom Mgr./Environmental Compliance Officer > Central College > Pella, IA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:44:50 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Don Abramowitz Subject: Re: Air Changes per Hour Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For what it's worth, I did notice a published ventilation rate for laboratories in educational facilities in ASHRAE 62-1989. Table 2.2 of this consensus standard calls for 20 CFM of conditioned outside air per person in each lab. This could be converted to (fresh) air changes per hour in a lab of known volume and known or predicted occupancy rate. This value is in addition to "special contaminant control for processes or functions", which I take to be, for example, the use of fume hoods to contain operations that emit contaminants. If it tells you anything about the status of science education, the table also requires 20 CFM outside air per person in prison cells. Don ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Donald Abramowitz, CIH Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College 101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue Bryn Mawr PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081 (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:12:10 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: h & jg stormking Subject: Re: NFPA 704 Labeling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: The main reason to place the information on the cards is to inform the fire fighters of potential problems when they enter a building/room of what they will find during an ongoing fire. It is not supposed to represent the actual hazards in the building/rooms when a fire is not in progress. The fire department may choose not to enter a room or building at all if the potential hazards to their people would be such that serious injuries or death could result. While these numbers may not make people "comfortable," that is not the purpose of the NFPA 704 diamond. It is simply to inform fire fighters of the dangers even if others choose to use it as a warning of the hazards in the building/rooms at all times. The main argument I have towards the diamonds...while the flammability rating is clear and quantitative, the health & reactivity are highly subjective. I would like a more quantitative way to determine what the numbers for these areas are in materials that have not been rated by the NFPA. Thanks! Helen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 01:20:00 +1300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Tony Haggerty Subject: Re: NFPA 704 Labeling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If memory serves correctly, NFPA 704 is the standard that sets the criteria for assigning numbers. e.g. Flammability ratings are dependent on flash points and boiling points. Health ratings on LD50s. You can work them out for yourself and then use the highest number on a placard. Tony ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:10:50 -0400 Reply-To: wessonl@co.oakland.mi.us Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Larry Wesson Organization: Oakland County Michigan Subject: Re: NFPA 704 Labeling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Yanchisin wrote: > > Greetings! > > I am looking fore some insight from your collective wisdom and experience. > I hope this does not get too confusing. This is extremely complex, but I > will try to simplify it, but hopefully not too much. Fire safety is not my > specialty. > > Our State Fire Marshal has been citing the campus for not having chemical > storage rooms labeled with the NFPA 704 diamond. These rooms would house > many chemicals, but all the same hazards (flammables in one room, acid > storage in another, pesticides in another, etc). We have signs on the doors > stating what is in the room (flams, acids etc) but now have been required to > put up an NFPA diamond too. > > With 4 chemicals in the room, we could have 4 separate NFPA classifications. > I was told to list all the Blue, Red, Yellow numbers and take the highest > numbers and put a placard up with that. My feelings are that this is not > representative of the true nature of the stuff in the room, as there would > be nothing in the rooms with the final placard labeling. The examples below > could be for flammable and acid storage rooms: > > Chemical Blue Red Yellow Chemical Blue > Red Yellow > > Ethanol 0 3 0 Hydrochloric 3 0 > 0 > Pet. Ether 1 4 0 Sulfuric > 3 0 1 > Xylene 2 3 0 Formic 3 2 > 0 > Pentane 1 4 0 Nitric 2 0 > 1 > > Sign: 2 4 1 Sign 3 2 1 > > The above example may have caused confusion, but our Haz Waste facility will > positively scare the hell out of you when you look at the signage. We had > to put up a placard with Blue-4 Red-4 Yellow-4 and special handling- > Radioactive, Oxidizer, Corrosive, Acid, Water reactive. (Yes- we can have > all that in the building, but if so, they are all segregated, packed and > stored independently of one another.) On top of that- with every shipment of > waste going out- it can and will change. We were told the one sign is good > enough as long as we have waste in the building. This would be the worse > case scenario- and if it was a lesser hazard- it would be better- but no one > would know that by the signage as we were told not to change it!! > > I am not 100% comfortable with this. This is not my understanding of how > the system is supposed to work. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is > it OK to do this? Is taking the highest numbers and treating the rooms at > that OK? My on campus fire safety coordinator deferred to the Fire Marshal > and said to make the signs. I am hesitant to get the local fire department > involved as they may muddy the waters even more. All thoughts appreciated!! > Thanks in advance for your thoughts! > > Mark Yanchisin > Coordinator for Clinical and Lab Safety > Programs > University of Florida Env. Health and Safety > PO Box 112195 Building 104 > Gainesville, FL 32611-2195 > 352-392-1591 (T) > 352-392-3414 (F) > Mark@ehs.ufl.edu > > have gotten no support from the on campus fire safety officer (one of my > co-workers here at EH&S) Mark, at the risk of being too simple, you can take the worse rating of your combined chemicals and post the results. The National Fire Protection Association' pamphlet 704 placard system is there for the emergency responders use. It will tell them approximately whats behind the door and can provide special instructions. The MSDS provide individual information on the chemicals. Please check with your state fire marshal to see if they agree. I believe Florida's fire marshal is a unit of the Department of Insurance. Hope this helps, Larry Wesson, Chief Fire & Security Conty of Oakland, Michigan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:51:24 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Greene, Ben" Subject: eye protection policy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Officers - I am interested in how other chemical hygiene officers view this scenario: A lab supervisor implemented a policy that safety glasses were required at all times in lab areas. This policy did not supercede any job-specific tasks that would require other eye protection, such as goggles and/or face shield. The intent was to provide a minimal degree of eye protection at all times for just being in the lab. And yes, the hazard assessment concluded that safety glasses would provide this minimum level of protection. Other activities in the lab, however, involved optical microscopy and FTIR microscope operation, where the lab workers felt that wearing safety glasses while looking into a scope interfered with the quality of their work and caused eye strain. Even lab workers with substantial corrective lenses agreed that glasses interfere. The lab workers showed a clear committment to safety and they agreed with the general eye protection policy. But they would like some modification of the policy to allow for work without glasses when working with the microscopes. It is not practicable to remove the microscopes from the lab. Have any of you encountered this type of situation, and if so, how was it dealt with? Ben Greene AlliedSignal ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:25:40 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jonathan Chase Subject: CIH review materials and course information MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Does anyone know of any good self training review software for the CIH exam. Additionally, I am looking for information on review courses. Does anyone know of any offered in the Philadelphia, NY or Wash. areas? Thanks for your anticipated cooperation ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:00:03 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ray Campbell Subject: Re: eye protection policy In-Reply-To: <45C82258A1B2D111892500805FCC9B0D02062D11@nt05.wstf.nasa.go v> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I believe that the punishment should fit the crime. If there is little likelihood of an eye impact while working in the lab, then safety glasses are unnecessary. Even worse is the fact that they are not protective from recognized hazards. The use of protective equipment should be required when necessary to the task at hand, not to provide an unnecessary use of PPE. This fosters resentment and noncompliance. I have strongly discouraged such policies as CYA and not PYA. (Definition provided separately upon request) Ray Campbell REA CCHO 310-257-1080 At 12:51 PM 10/14/99 -0600, you wrote: >Officers - I am interested in how other chemical hygiene officers view this >scenario: A lab supervisor implemented a policy that safety glasses were >required at all times in lab areas. This policy did not supercede any >job-specific tasks that would require other eye protection, such as goggles >and/or face shield. The intent was to provide a minimal degree of eye >protection at all times for just being in the lab. And yes, the hazard >assessment concluded that safety glasses would provide this minimum level of >protection. Other activities in the lab, however, involved optical >microscopy and FTIR microscope operation, where the lab workers felt that >wearing safety glasses while looking into a scope interfered with the >quality of their work and caused eye strain. Even lab workers with >substantial corrective lenses agreed that glasses interfere. The lab >workers showed a clear committment to safety and they agreed with the >general eye protection policy. But they would like some modification of the >policy to allow for work without glasses when working with the microscopes. >It is not practicable to remove the microscopes from the lab. Have any of >you encountered this type of situation, and if so, how was it dealt with? > >Ben Greene >AlliedSignal ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:59:23 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Sandy HayGlass Subject: Re: eye protection policy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain We separated the lab by tasks, placing the microscopes at one side facing away from any more hazardous to the eyes work. Basically, it is like a line placed done one quarter of the lab. Staff agreed to wear eye protection in all other areas. Compliance has been good since staff were pleased we made the exception and I don't think we have significantly changed the risk. > ---------- > From: Greene, Ben[SMTP:bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV] > Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 1:51 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: eye protection policy > > Officers - I am interested in how other chemical hygiene officers view > this > scenario: A lab supervisor implemented a policy that safety glasses were > required at all times in lab areas. This policy did not supercede any > job-specific tasks that would require other eye protection, such as > goggles > and/or face shield. The intent was to provide a minimal degree of eye > protection at all times for just being in the lab. And yes, the hazard > assessment concluded that safety glasses would provide this minimum level > of > protection. Other activities in the lab, however, involved optical > microscopy and FTIR microscope operation, where the lab workers felt that > wearing safety glasses while looking into a scope interfered with the > quality of their work and caused eye strain. Even lab workers with > substantial corrective lenses agreed that glasses interfere. The lab > workers showed a clear committment to safety and they agreed with the > general eye protection policy. But they would like some modification of > the > policy to allow for work without glasses when working with the > microscopes. > It is not practicable to remove the microscopes from the lab. Have any of > you encountered this type of situation, and if so, how was it dealt with? > > Ben Greene > AlliedSignal > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:15:53 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Naomi Kelly Subject: Re: eye protection policy In-Reply-To: <45C82258A1B2D111892500805FCC9B0D02062D11@nt05.wstf.nasa.go v> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We work with lab personnel so that the microscopes are placed into an isolated area of the lab or at least away from areas where chemicals are handled, etc. It seems to work fairly well. If only I could get the same level of compliance from the chemistry dept. that I do from those folks in biology, micro, etc. where most of the scopes are used! At 12:51 PM 10/14/99 -0600, you wrote: >Officers - I am interested in how other chemical hygiene officers view this >scenario: A lab supervisor implemented a policy that safety glasses were >required at all times in lab areas. This policy did not supercede any >job-specific tasks that would require other eye protection, such as goggles >and/or face shield. The intent was to provide a minimal degree of eye >protection at all times for just being in the lab. And yes, the hazard >assessment concluded that safety glasses would provide this minimum level of >protection. Other activities in the lab, however, involved optical >microscopy and FTIR microscope operation, where the lab workers felt that >wearing safety glasses while looking into a scope interfered with the >quality of their work and caused eye strain. Even lab workers with >substantial corrective lenses agreed that glasses interfere. The lab >workers showed a clear committment to safety and they agreed with the >general eye protection policy. But they would like some modification of the >policy to allow for work without glasses when working with the microscopes. >It is not practicable to remove the microscopes from the lab. Have any of >you encountered this type of situation, and if so, how was it dealt with? > >Ben Greene >AlliedSignal ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:39:58 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike Dougherty Subject: Re: eye protection policy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had this same concern from folks in a lab. We handled it as follows, Safety Glasses were required by all individuals working in the Lab, no matter what they were doing or how long they would be in the Lab. (This took care of those individuals, usually supervisors and managers who felt they were exempt as they did not work in the lab.) While perform micro testing on the scopes the safety glasses could be removed, but must be replaced immediately after the required testing was completed. At no time could safety glasses be removed if there was the chance of a splash. We devised a "splash guard" using some tin metal from Maintenance to resolve the "splash hazard" at the scopes. It worked well. Hope this helps. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:47:14 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Davis, Scott" Subject: Re: CIH review materials and course information MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I found the DataChem software very helpful. They have a good web site. Scott Davis > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Chase [SMTP:jchase@DREXEL.EDU] > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 5:26 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: CIH review materials and course information > > Does anyone know of any good self training review software for the CIH > exam. Additionally, I am looking for information on review courses. Does > anyone know of any offered in the Philadelphia, NY or Wash. areas? > > Thanks for your anticipated cooperation ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:23:28 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "David O. Vick, CIH" Subject: eye protection policy MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ben, Many of our labs have a "Laboratory Operations Manual" containing the CHP, procedures, guidelines, training documents, etc. For labs with areas that you speak of, I placed a signed document into the "LOM" reading something like: The desk and computer area on the north side of Lab 343 will be designated as not requiring safety glasses for workers in that area, under certain specific conditions. (This area will be clearly marked with tape.) Eye protection MUST be worn at all times unless ALL of the following conditions are met: 1. There are no activities or processes occurring in the laboratory that create a physical or chemical eye hazard. 2. Whenever others are working in the laboratory they will inform anyone at the desk/computer area to don safety glasses before they start working with potential physical or chemical eye hazards. David O. Vick, M.S., CIH Chemical and Analytical Sciences Division Safety and Health Support O A K R I D G E N A T I O N A L L A B O R A T O R Y P.O. Box 2008 Tel: (805)576-6056 Building-1505 MS-6209 Fax: (805)574-6721 Oak Ridge, TN 37831-2008 email: idv@ornl.gov <>< One ailment that antibiotics will never stamp out is premature formation of opinion. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:21:37 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Naomi Kelly Subject: Protocol for House Vacuum Systems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" With all the recent talk about house vacuum pumps, it brought to mind that a protocol dealing with vacuum pump systems should be included in one's safety manual. Anyone have a written protocol they would be willing to share? Naomi Kelly Environmental Health and Safety Officer Clemson University 261 P&AS Building Clemson, SC 29634-5740 (864)656-7554 Fax (864)656-7630 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:43:14 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Don Abramowitz Subject: Re: Protocol for House Vacuum Systems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >With all the recent talk about house vacuum pumps, it brought to mind that >a protocol dealing with vacuum pump systems should be included in one's >safety manual. Anyone have a written protocol they would be willing to share? I don't have a protocol, but I'm giving serious thought to disconnecting our house vacuum, since it seems too easy to anonymously ignore protocols for proper trapping, and to just let other people deal with the consequences. I too would be interested in seeing existing protocols (I could be convinced to change my mind, after all). My reluctance in abandoning the central pump is that I want to first ensure we have adequate alternatives and that we analyze the risks and benefits of the various localized options. I'll report back if we are successful. Don ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:46:18 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Pratt's Book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Earlier this month, Ben Owens wrote to me ..... << We've had quite a discussion on bonding and grounding! Anyway, you indicated that Pratt gives (in his book) three methods for bonding plastic containers. I have Pratt's book but I cannot find the discussion on these three methods (actually I have a hard time finding most specific topics in this book). If it's not too much trouble, could you please give page numbers for this discussion? Thanks for your assistance! >> So, I finally went back to look. To my disappointment, I was not able to find the three methods there. I'm not sure at this point where I did see the three methods which I mistakenly attributed to Pratt. Pratt's book is really interesting. He describes a three step process (1) Generation of charge, (2) Accumulation of charge, and (3) Electrostatic discharges. In the section on generation of charge, he discusses "double layer charging". "Double layer charging results from the charge orientation which occure on a submicroscopic scale at liquid interfaces: solid-liquid, gas-liquid, or liquid-liquid." I wonder if that might not include the free fall of a liquid in air or the free fall of a liquid from the nozzel of a container. ... Jim Kaufman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:46:21 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Polarized Plugs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This was sent originally to the SAFETY List... Jim Subj: Re: Polarized Plugs Date: 10/16/99 To: SAFETY@list.UVM.EDU (Safety) Others wrote previously.... Polarized Plug - This one I am least certain on...but...I am pretty sure >it has to do with providing the "High" side of the power into a circuit >in a specific way to allow the device to function properly. Not circuit >nor personnel protective. << I believe that the polarized plug is a personal safety device insofar as it assures that a single pole switch is on the hot side rather than the neutral. A short could energize the body of a device even when the switch is off if polarized plug were reversed. >> There is a significant safety issue that has not been mentioned. The polarized plug helps to eliminate (but, not completely) the problem which exist with two-prong unpolarized plugs. If the plug is inserted backwards, the appliance case is hot (as much as 120 volts) when the appliance is off. Ed Egan (of Boston OSHA before his untimely passing) used to speak of 35 fatalities per year due to this problem. I was auditing a lab in Massachusetts this summer and found an air gun heater (Red with silver barrel) that was 80 volts hot to ground when off. It was right next to the sink. One wet hand on the device and the other wet hand on the faucet could result in a serious or fatal shock. Somone had snapped off the ground pin on the device's plug and inserted the plug in backwards. ..... Jim Kaufman ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, Director The Laboratory Safety Workshop Safety in Science Education 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 Cell: 508-574-6264 Email: labsafe@aol.com Web Site: http://www.labsafety.org/ ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 13:02:32 -0300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Aziz M. Abu-khalaf" Subject: web site about safety Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hellow friends: Our chairman asked me the following, and I would appreciate your response as well. << There is a question at http://www.chemsoc.org:86/~chat (a conference I moderate) about chemical safety and MSDSs. The University of Bristol, School of Chemistry's Safety Manual at http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/safety/safehome.htm has been mentioned. Does anyone have comments on this site? Replies to http://www.chemsoc.org:86/~chat please. Prof. Ibrahim S. Al-Mutaz Chairman of Chemical Engineering Dept., College of Engineering, King Saud University P O Box 800, Riyadh 11421, Saudi Arabia e-mail: almutaz@ksu.edu.sa , phone: 966 1 467-6870>>> **************************************************************************** ******* Aziz M. Abu-Khalaf ***** Tel: 00966 1 4676894 Chemical Engineering Department ***** Fax: 00966 1 4678770 King Saud University ***** E-mail: amkhalaf@ksu.edu.sa PO Box 800 ***** Riyadh 11421, Saudi Arabia ***** **************************************************************************** ******* ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 20:33:02 -0400 Reply-To: "edmiston@bluffton.edu" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Edmiston Organization: Bluffton College Subject: Re: Polarized Plugs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Today I do not think it is legal for the neutral wire of any device to be connected directly to the chassis... certainly not if any chassis parts are exposed. This certainly would not warrant a UL sticker. However, sometimes the chassis of an instrument has a small capacitor connecting it to neutral. This is a noise suppression technique. If this capacitor is present, and if the chassis is not otherwise grounded (perhaps the ground is broken off, like Jim mentions) then, as Jim says, you can measure a potential difference between the chassis and ground. However, the shock one would get from this is not likely lethal because the capacitor would have a fairly high resistance (actually reactance) to the flow of AC current. If there were a direct connection between hot and the chassis, one would not measure 80 volts as in Jim's example. One would measure the full 110/115 volts. Remember that modern voltmeters have very high input resistance. This allows them to indicate a voltage in situations where the voltage source is isolated from the measured point by a resistor or capacitor. That might indicate a defective instrument (such as the broken ground) but does not necessarily indicate a lethal hazard. I sure would fix the device, but 80 volts from metal case to ground does not indicate a direct connection between hot and the metal case. * * * * The polarized plug most certainly does represent a safety feature. It allows the manufacturer to put the single-pole switch in the hot side without fear that the hot/neutral will be reversed (assume proper building wiring). This was mentioned. It also allows the instrument maker to place an internal fuse, if desired, in the hot side. In coffee makers, for example, there is a thermal fuse in the hot side down near the heating element. But definitely, in a coffee maker, neither hot nor neutral connect to any exposed metal parts. In addition, and this is a major point, a polarized plug allows the manufacturer to locate any hot parts away from places prodding fingers might poke. For example, think about changing a light bulb in a lamp socket. When properly wired, the polarized plug connects the hot to the switch and then to the INNERMOST contact in the socket... NOT the threads of the socket. Think about it. The part of the socket you're most likely to touch is the threads; especially when the light bulb is half screwed-in/out or when the bulb is out and you're trying to start the new one. Getting your finger all the way down inside the socket to touch the innermost contact is not real easy. By assuring the threads are neutral, the shock hazard of changing a light bulb is greatly reduced. Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: 419-358-3270 Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: 419-358-3323 Chairman, Science Department E-Mail edmiston@bluffton.edu Bluffton College 280 West College Avenue Bluffton, OH 45817 -----Original Message----- From: Labsafe@AOL.COM [SMTP:Labsafe@AOL.COM] Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 4:46 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Polarized Plugs This was sent originally to the SAFETY List... Jim Subj: Re: Polarized Plugs Date: 10/16/99 To: SAFETY@list.UVM.EDU (Safety) Others wrote previously.... Polarized Plug - This one I am least certain on...but...I am pretty sure >it has to do with providing the "High" side of the power into a circuit >in a specific way to allow the device to function properly. Not circuit >nor personnel protective. << I believe that the polarized plug is a personal safety device insofar as it assures that a single pole switch is on the hot side rather than the neutral. A short could energize the body of a device even when the switch is off if polarized plug were reversed. >> There is a significant safety issue that has not been mentioned. The polarized plug helps to eliminate (but, not completely) the problem which exist with two-prong unpolarized plugs. If the plug is inserted backwards, the appliance case is hot (as much as 120 volts) when the appliance is off. Ed Egan (of Boston OSHA before his untimely passing) used to speak of 35 fatalities per year due to this problem. I was auditing a lab in Massachusetts this summer and found an air gun heater (Red with silver barrel) that was 80 volts hot to ground when off. It was right next to the sink. One wet hand on the device and the other wet hand on the faucet could result in a serious or fatal shock. Somone had snapped off the ground pin on the device's plug and inserted the plug in backwards. ..... Jim Kaufman ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, Director The Laboratory Safety Workshop Safety in Science Education 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 Cell: 508-574-6264 Email: labsafe@aol.com Web Site: http://www.labsafety.org/ ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 07:42:01 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike Dougherty Subject: Re: CIH review materials and course information MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I too am interested in such material. Does anyone have some suggestions??? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 07:56:35 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Lucy M. Zotter" Subject: Blowout wall Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Nachos! I have just had a look at the plans for our new science building and the chemical storage room is on an outside wall but does not have a blowout wall. I am trying to convince the administration that it is a mistake not to have a blowout wall in the storage area. What do you have in your storage area and any feedback on this issue would be helpful. Lucy Zotter ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:01:06 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Robert Burns Subject: Re: Blowout wall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I don't think a blowout wall is either necessary or desirable. Blowout walls are good to have in a high pressure lab, but certainly not needed in a storeroom. I'd be more concerned about good ventilation and a sprinkler system. "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 Fax 815 333 4805 -----Original Message----- From: Lucy M. Zotter [mailto:lmz0@MS1.ALLENCOL.EDU] Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 7:57 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Blowout wall Hi Nachos! I have just had a look at the plans for our new science building and the chemical storage room is on an outside wall but does not have a blowout wall. I am trying to convince the administration that it is a mistake not to have a blowout wall in the storage area. What do you have in your storage area and any feedback on this issue would be helpful. Lucy Zotter ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:14:04 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "L. James Stock III" <34EMQ6K@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Subject: Re: Blowout wall Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" My bulk storage room has a reinforced ceiling with four large plastic BLOW-OUT panels! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:09:59 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike Dougherty Subject: Re: Blowout wall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If it is a storage room I do not believe a Blow Out wall in needed. Good ventilation is needed with proper lighting fixtures and switches. (Intrinsic etc) Check out how they plan to store the various agents to be kept in the storage room. (Flammables Combustibles etc) Contact you local Fire Prevention Officer. They are a good source on information and help. Take care and have a fun day.. MD SAFETY SERVICES Michael N. Dougherty, C.R.S.P. Health - Safety - Compensation Consulting, Training & Management Phone: (519) 767-6785 Pager: (519) 241-6420 Fax: (519) 767-9183 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:10:19 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike Dougherty Subject: Re: Blowout wall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Agreed. MD SAFETY SERVICES Michael N. Dougherty, C.R.S.P. Health - Safety - Compensation Consulting, Training & Management Phone: (519) 767-6785 Pager: (519) 241-6420 Fax: (519) 767-9183 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:21:34 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Schultz William F Subject: Re: Blowout wall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Occasionally I have a few potentially explosive materials in my storage area. These potentially explosive materials are kept in a "magazine" (metal container lined with hardwood and vented). In the event of detonation the magazine will contain the explosion which is I feel is safer than allowing the shock waves from the explosion to dissipate at random through a blowout wall. The magazine is about 3 ft X 3 ft X 18 in and weighs about three hundred pounds. Bill Schultz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:43:06 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Jeffery S. Stewart" Organization: Morehead State University Subject: Re: Blowout wall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Our main chemical storage room doesn't have a blowout wall, and I agree with the other comments mentioned regarding it's necessity. I feel an automatic suppression system, good general ventilation, and proper separation of flammables, oxidizers, reactives, etc...would be adequate. I have a separate building for hazardous waste storage that does have blowout walls. If I have old bottles of ethyl ether, THF, hydrazine, picric acid,etc...this is a good place for them until disposal. Saying that, another thing to remember is the age of some of your chemicals. Good luck. Jeffery S. Stewart, RSO/CHO Coordinator, Environmental Health & Safety Industrial Hygienist Morehead State University "Lucy M. Zotter" wrote: > Hi Nachos! > I have just had a look at the plans for our new science building and the > chemical storage room is on an outside wall but does not have a blowout > wall. I am trying to convince the administration that it is a mistake not > to have a blowout wall in the storage area. What do you have in your > storage area and any feedback on this issue would be helpful. > Lucy Zotter ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:26:15 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Lucy M. Zotter" Subject: blowout wall Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Some additional information on my blowout wall. We now have an outside shed with blowout roof pannels for bulk and waste storage. The new building will be across campus and across a public street from a persent location. The inside storage room will be the only storage for the new building. Lucy Zotter ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:35:17 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Re: eye protection policy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Ben and fellow NACHO's. What we do here in the teaching labs is assign PPE as required by the lab exercises that week. I should clarify teaching labs to be of the biology nature and not chem labs. Bacteriology can have upwards of 60 first year med students. When they are gram staining, they ware PPE. If they would like to view their finished product without the eye ware they must wait for everyone to put the staining reagents away. When the scopes come out, the eye protection can be removed. Many students just get in the habit of putting on the eye ware when they enter the lab and leave in on until they leave. I think this is the best habit to develop when working in multipurpose labs such as ours. This whole discussion brings to mind a lab accident that happened to a coworker in an analytical lab I managed a number of years back. We had an old sulfur analyzer we used to analyze raw materials coming into the plant for use in production. A line clogged while I was operating it jamming a glass connector into a metal housing. The glass shattered. I was wearing safety glasses at the time but my coworker was not. He happened to walk back into the lab as the glass shattered. A small shard lodged in the outer corner of his eye. He was very lucky that it was small and that eye sclera is very tough. We instituted a policy of hanging a caution sign on the door to the lab when that instrument was being used to prevent this situation from happening again. I think it points out the danger of focusing on "chemical" safety in labs being used for more than one purpose. This story brings me back to that great habit some of my med students are developing in a multipurpose lab, eye wear when in, off when leaving. For what its worth, Janeen. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:54:54 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Madelyn Miller Subject: Re: Blowout wall In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991018075635.007a27d0@email.allencol.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Greetings, >From time to time we do get an occasional explosive compound turned into us as hazardous waste. For this reason and the fact that our vendors will use our accumulation area to do unknowns testing I think a blow out panel, strategically located away from pedestrian (or any) traffic is a prudent move. Madelyn ---------------------- Madelyn Miller Director & Chemical Hygiene Officer Environmental Health & Safety Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 15213 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:56:21 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Madelyn Miller Subject: Re: Blowout wall In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991018075635.007a27d0@email.allencol.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Greetings, Never mind. I reread your posting. Chemical storage doesn't need a blow out pannel. Madelyn On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 07:56:35 -0400 "Lucy M. Zotter" wrote: > Hi Nachos! > I have just had a look at the plans for our new science building and the > chemical storage room is on an outside wall but does not have a blowout > wall. I am trying to convince the administration that it is a mistake not > to have a blowout wall in the storage area. What do you have in your > storage area and any feedback on this issue would be helpful. > Lucy Zotter ---------------------- Madelyn Miller Director & Chemical Hygiene Officer Environmental Health & Safety Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 15213 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:19:12 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Dorothy Farina Subject: Looking for a non-mercury thermometer In-Reply-To: <199910160500.AAA05478@saluki-mail.siu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed We're really trying to stop using mercury thermometers because of the hazard and disposal cost. So, one of our Scientists is looking for a non-mercury thermometer that covers the range 20-75 degrees Fahrenheit in 0.5 increments. Does anyone know of where we can find one....we've tried the basics (VWR, etc...) Thanks in advance for your help! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:42:31 -0400 Reply-To: "edmiston@bluffton.edu" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Edmiston Organization: Bluffton College Subject: Re: Looking for a non-mercury thermometer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have been having very good success with Fisher 15-078J. This has both and on/off switch and a switch to change from Celsius to Fahrenheit. Whatever model you choose, I think an on/off switch is a must. If you ultimately end up with 50 digital thermometers (like we have) and they are always on, the batteries will have to be replaced as often as every 6 months. If they are turned off when not in use, the batteries can last 2-3 years. Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: 419-358-3270 Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: 419-358-3323 Chairman, Science Department E-Mail edmiston@bluffton.edu Bluffton College 280 West College Avenue Bluffton, OH 45817 -----Original Message----- From: Dorothy Farina [SMTP:Dorothy.Farina@IPST.EDU] Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 10:19 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Looking for a non-mercury thermometer We're really trying to stop using mercury thermometers because of the hazard and disposal cost. So, one of our Scientists is looking for a non-mercury thermometer that covers the range 20-75 degrees Fahrenheit in 0.5 increments. Does anyone know of where we can find one....we've tried the basics (VWR, etc...) Thanks in advance for your help! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:42:18 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: eye protection policy In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" hi all. no caps -- arm in sling. the only way to assure glasses or goggles are on when they are needed is to make it automatic -- no decision required. prof of v famous univ always wore s glasses. inspecting lab; as he left removed his glasses. at door student asked him to look at one test tube. now prof has only one eye. related note, midair turbulence, injuries and seatbelts. wear them when seated. on planes use car seats for your baby, not your lap. At 09:35 AM 10/18/99 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Ben and fellow NACHO's. >This whole discussion brings to mind a lab accident that happened to a coworker in an analytical lab I managed a number of years back. We had an old sulfur analyzer we used to analyze raw materials coming into the plant for use in production. A line clogged while I was operating it jamming a glass connector into a metal housing. The glass shattered. I was wearing safety glasses at the time but my coworker was not. He happened to walk back into the lab as the glass shattered. A small shard lodged in the outer corner of his eye. He was very lucky that it was small and that eye sclera is very tough. We instituted a policy of hanging a caution sign on the door to the lab when that instrument was being used to prevent this situation from happening again. I think it points out the danger of focusing on "chemical" safety in labs being used for more than one purpose. > >This story brings me back to that great habit some of my med students are developing in a multipurpose lab, eye wear when in, off when leaving. > >For what its worth, Janeen. > Mary Ann Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 16 Pequot Rd Marblehead, MA 01945-1202 tel 781-631-4748, FAX 781-631-1832 outmsolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:49:00 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Madelyn Miller Subject: Re: Looking for a non-mercury thermometer In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991018101603.00a1d2a0@pop.ipst.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Greetings, I don't think this thermometer exists. Most spirit thermometers are good + or - one to two degrees. They will not be accurate enough to read to a half a degree. I looked in A. H. Thomas who usually have more esoteric supplies. They have nothing more accurate than a degree If you need accuracy, go electric, mechanical or mercury. Madelyn On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:19:12 -0400 Dorothy Farina wrote: > We're really trying to stop using mercury thermometers because of the > hazard and disposal cost. > > So, one of our Scientists is looking for a non-mercury thermometer that > covers the range 20-75 degrees Fahrenheit in 0.5 increments. > > Does anyone know of where we can find one....we've tried the basics (VWR, > etc...) > > Thanks in advance for your help! ---------------------- Madelyn Miller Director & Chemical Hygiene Officer Environmental Health & Safety Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 15213 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:58:33 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Elisabeth Langford Subject: Re: Looking for a non-mercury thermometer In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991018101603.00a1d2a0@pop.ipst.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Try Flinn Chemical & Biological Catalog Reference Manual 1999 on pp 362 - 365. E-mail address is [flinn@flinnsci.com] or phone 1-800-452-1261 You Wrote >So, one of our Scientists is looking for a non-mercury thermometer that >covers the range 20-75 degrees Fahrenheit in 0.5 increments. > >Does anyone know of where we can find one....we've tried the basics (VWR, >etc...) > >Thanks in advance for your help! Elisabeth Langford Southeast High School 2350 East Ash Street Springfield, IL 62703 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:01:08 -0500 Reply-To: swihart@purdue.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: L A Swihart Organization: Purdue University Subject: Re: Looking for a non-mercury thermometer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am very interested in information on ranges, cost, and accuracy from anyone who's got a fair amount of experience using simpler non-Hg (fluid-filled) lab thermometers. A number like 50 would supply maybe 2% of our undergraduate labs. I believe we can decide to live with +/- 1 degree accuracy and am hoping to start phasing in substitutes. Thanks, Linda Michael Edmiston wrote: > > We have been having very good success with Fisher 15-078J. This has > both and on/off switch and a switch to change from Celsius to > Fahrenheit. > > Whatever model you choose, I think an on/off switch is a must. If you > ultimately end up with 50 digital thermometers (like we have) and they > are always on, the batteries will have to be replaced as often as every > 6 months. If they are turned off when not in use, the batteries can > last 2-3 years. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dorothy Farina [SMTP:Dorothy.Farina@IPST.EDU] > > We're really trying to stop using mercury thermometers because of the > hazard and disposal cost. > > So, one of our Scientists is looking for a non-mercury thermometer that > covers the range 20-75 degrees Fahrenheit in 0.5 increments. > > Does anyone know of where we can find one....we've tried the basics > (VWR, > etc...) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:51:04 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Jeffery S. Stewart" Organization: Morehead State University Subject: Safety training MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am inquiring about how new employees are trained at your universities. In the university setting, with so many faculty and staff starting at different times with different schedules it is a nightmare. We have over 1,000 employees and only myself and one other person in my office. So, I am interested to hear how some of you handle this. I have been training all of Physical Plant employees (maint, custodians, grounds, etc...) at initial assignment with the required job specific training. Yet, it is almost impossible to train all of the new employees all over campus due to the numerous hats worn. Any ideas would be beneficial. Jeff Stewart ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:10:41 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike Dougherty Subject: Re: blowout wall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lucy, The new location, is a concern. Have you looked into pedestrian traffic in the area, vehicle traffic, and public gathering areas. Is the area isolated etc. Some questions to look out for. The last thing you want is to solve your safety problem and create a new one for other people and locations. Take care. MD SAFETY SERVICES Michael N. Dougherty, C.R.S.P. Health - Safety - Compensation Consulting, Training & Management Phone: (519) 767-6785 Pager: (519) 241-6420 Fax: (519) 767-9183 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:21:41 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "John M. Neil" Subject: Re: Looking for a non-mercury thermometer In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991018101603.00a1d2a0@pop.ipst.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Try: Brooklyn Thermometer Comapny, Inc. 90 Verdi Street Farmingdale, NY 11735 (516) 694-7610 FAX (516)694-6329 They have a large selection including red liquid with 1/10 deg C divisions. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:19:02 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Sandy HayGlass Subject: Re: Safety training MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain We are two people serving three very different work areas- numerous types of labs, industrial(grain elevator and marine shipping) and office. We have taken the approach of developing standard policies and pushing the supervisor responsibility for safety. When a new employee starts in the lab, we send the supervisor a letter(with a copy to the new employee)and ask the supervisor to ensure they review the following policies with the employee and the safety related to specific work practices during the employee's first week at work. We change the list depending on the job. The letter also advises the employee they can contact us if they have a specific problem or concern. Then we offer training twice a year on safety and cover all the topics we want. Some jobs have restrictions before more formal training is provided. ( e.g. manual handling training is provided more frequently). Our training is in units so people can attend just the units that apply to them. We find this helps us provide better service overall because we are not training groups of two or three, we get to everyone in the first six months and safety responsibility in the work unit is emphasized. > ---------- > From: Jeffery S. Stewart[SMTP:j.stewart@MOREHEAD-ST.EDU] > Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 12:51 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Safety training > > I am inquiring about how new employees are trained at your universities. > > In the university setting, with so many faculty and staff starting at > different > times with different schedules it is a nightmare. We have over 1,000 > employees and only myself and one other person in my office. So, I > am interested to hear how some of you handle this. I have been training > > all of Physical Plant employees (maint, custodians, grounds, etc...) at > initial assignment with the required job specific training. Yet, it is > almost > impossible to train all of the new employees all over campus due to the > numerous hats worn. > Any ideas would be beneficial. > > Jeff Stewart > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:39:48 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Thomas J. Shelley" Subject: Re: Safety training In-Reply-To: <380B5E08.8746E2A1@morehead-st.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I am inquiring about how new employees are trained at your universities. > >In the university setting, with so many faculty and staff starting at >different >times with different schedules it is a nightmare. We have over 1,000 >employees and only myself and one other person in my office. So, I >am interested to hear how some of you handle this. I have been training > >all of Physical Plant employees (maint, custodians, grounds, etc...) at >initial assignment with the required job specific training. Yet, it is >almost >impossible to train all of the new employees all over campus due to the >numerous hats worn. >Any ideas would be beneficial. Jeff--We undertake training once per month for general service workers and office workers (Hazcom) and lab workers (Lab Std.) We get a monthly download from our central HR for new hires who are then contacted by e-mail. They call in to register and their supervisors are responsible for making sure that they attend training. We also offer several (20 or so) additional trainings on an intermittent basis or on demand from a unit. At the start of each term, including the summer sessions, we offer Hazcom and Lab Std. training for undergrads and grads. working on Campus. Faculty are pretty good about seeing that their undergrads get training. Buildings Care (custordial staff) and some lab units undertake their own training, with our blessing. We average about 60 new hires per month, so our training staff keep pretty busy. I hope this is useful information. Tom ********************************************************* Tom Shelley, Chemical Hygiene Officer, Cornell University Department of Environmental Health and Safety, 125 Humphreys Service Building, Ithaca, NY 14853. (607) 255-4288 tjs1@cornell.edu ****************************DISCLAIMER******************** The comments and views expressed in this communication are strictly my own and are not to be construed to officially represent those of my peers, supervisors or Cornell University. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:46:22 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Tayman, Tammy" Subject: Re: Blowout wall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" As far as I know, they are REQUIRED! I had to have one installed and have the sprinkler system removed (we have water reactives in there!). Tammy Tayman Instructional Lab Coordinator Montgomery College Rockville, Maryland > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Burns [mailto:RBURNS@RUETGERS-ORGANICS-CORP.COM] > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 8:01 AM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: Blowout wall > > > I don't think a blowout wall is either necessary or desirable. > > Blowout walls are good to have in a high pressure lab, but > certainly not > needed in a storeroom. I'd be more concerned about good > ventilation and a > sprinkler system. > > "Semper Adventurus!" > > Robert L. Burns > Group Leader, R&D > RUETGERS Organics Corporation > Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com > Phone 814 231 9214 > Fax 815 333 4805 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lucy M. Zotter [mailto:lmz0@MS1.ALLENCOL.EDU] > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 7:57 > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Blowout wall > > > Hi Nachos! > I have just had a look at the plans for our new science > building and the > chemical storage room is on an outside wall but does not have > a blowout > wall. I am trying to convince the administration that it is > a mistake not > to have a blowout wall in the storage area. What do you have in your > storage area and any feedback on this issue would be helpful. > Lucy Zotter > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:58:40 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Gordon Miller Subject: Re: Looking for a non-mercury thermometer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" An electronic thermometer will need to be periodically checked for calibration. Gordon Miller, CIH miller22@llnl.gov ------------------------------- >I am very interested in information on ranges, cost, and accuracy from >anyone who's got a fair amount of experience using simpler non-Hg >(fluid-filled) lab thermometers. A number like 50 would supply maybe 2% >of our undergraduate labs. I believe we can decide to live with +/- 1 >degree accuracy and am hoping to start phasing in substitutes. > >Thanks, >Linda > >Michael Edmiston wrote: >> >> We have been having very good success with Fisher 15-078J. This has >> both and on/off switch and a switch to change from Celsius to >> Fahrenheit. >> >> Whatever model you choose, I think an on/off switch is a must. If you >> ultimately end up with 50 digital thermometers (like we have) and they >> are always on, the batteries will have to be replaced as often as every >> 6 months. If they are turned off when not in use, the batteries can >> last 2-3 years. > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dorothy Farina [SMTP:Dorothy.Farina@IPST.EDU] >> >> We're really trying to stop using mercury thermometers because of the >> hazard and disposal cost. >> >> So, one of our Scientists is looking for a non-mercury thermometer that >> covers the range 20-75 degrees Fahrenheit in 0.5 increments. >> >> Does anyone know of where we can find one....we've tried the basics >> (VWR, >> etc...) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:18:23 -0700 Reply-To: techton@pop.ihug.co.nz Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Tony Haggerty Subject: Re: eye protection policy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll say Amen to that Mary Ann. A co-worker had his eyes saved from molten Cadmium by safety glasses and he was not always the most careful, but he was after that. As for seat belts, I walked away from a T-boned, written off wreck with a cut eye thanks to seat belts and acquaintances lost their baby from the front seat in mothers arms in another accident. The baby finished up 50 metres down a gravel road looking .... well I'll leave it to the imagination. Safety devices do work!!! Preaching to the converted Tony Haggerty ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:41:15 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Greene, Ben" Subject: Re: thermometers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Well, even the mercury and non-mercury containing thermometers need to be periodically checked for calibration. The things I dislike the most about glass mercury thermometers are when you drop them they break and you have a mercury spill and a glass mess, and when someone jams one through an un-lubricated rubber stopper and skewers their hand you have an injury and both a blood and a mercury spill and a glass mess to clean up. At least with the alcohol thermometers there's no mercury, but the injury and glass mess potentials are still there. Thermal transducers do have some advantages from this point. In fact, if you really need to monitor the temperature you can hook a data logger to one. Ben ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:22:20 -0400 Reply-To: "edmiston@bluffton.edu" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Edmiston Organization: Bluffton College Subject: Re: thermometers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In addition to the points Ben Greene mentions, students make fewer reading errors. I suppose faculty/staff would make fewer errors also. We have found that these electronic thermometers hold their calibration very well. They are more expensive in the beginning, but we think they are more economical in the long run. So far we have only broken one, and it surprised us, so perhaps I should describe it: We wondered if we could use these in a sand bath or stuck into an aluminum-block heat distributor on a hot plate. The thermometer top-end was 150 C, which we did not intend to exceed, but we did exceed because the block heated up quickly. We're not sure how hot it went, perhaps 200 C. We assumed the display would indicate some over-range condition then work again once the temperature came down. However, the thermometer never recovered. We might officially diagnose the problem some day (we kept it) but I am pretty sure I know what happened... the thermistor got "fried." We purchased some bimetallic dial thermometers for use in heat blocks and sand baths and they work quite well. We have also worried that the plastic housing for the electronics might get marred by solvent vapors. We do use these in the hood for organic labs. However, we have not had any of this type of damage. That might be a combination both of the long stainless-steel stem coupled with being in a fume hood whenever solvents are used. By the way, with the long stems and the electronics at the top, these are top heavy and can tip over a small beaker. But that was also true of the glass thermometers. Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: 419-358-3270 Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: 419-358-3323 Chairman, Science Department E-Mail edmiston@bluffton.edu Bluffton College 280 West College Avenue Bluffton, OH 45817 -----Original Message----- From: Greene, Ben [SMTP:bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV] Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 4:41 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: thermometers Well, even the mercury and non-mercury containing thermometers need to be periodically checked for calibration. The things I dislike the most about glass mercury thermometers are when you drop them they break and you have a mercury spill and a glass mess, and when someone jams one through an un-lubricated rubber stopper and skewers their hand you have an injury and both a blood and a mercury spill and a glass mess to clean up. At least with the alcohol thermometers there's no mercury, but the injury and glass mess potentials are still there. Thermal transducers do have some advantages from this point. In fact, if you really need to monitor the temperature you can hook a data logger to one. Ben ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:52:34 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike Dougherty Subject: Re: Safety training MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Schedule monthly or bi-monthly training dates and times. This could be used to train new employees as well as do review training as may be needed. For those employees required to perform critical tasks schedule that training to be completed within the first two weeks of employment, however, that individual is not to perform the task until the training is completed. Hope this helps. MD SAFETY SERVICES Michael N. Dougherty, C.R.S.P. Health - Safety - Compensation Consulting, Training & Management Phone: (519) 767-6785 Pager: (519) 241-6420 Fax: (519) 767-9183 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:19:44 +0300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Poulose, John V" Subject: Re: Safety training MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear NACHO's, I think Mike's suggestions are valid in any job situation like industry or educational institutions. The most important point that I liked here is the review training. Continual improvement of one's safety awareness is achieved through review training sessions, even for the most experienced professionals. Here is what we do in our Petroleum Lab: The supervisor himself gives an orientation to new hires (technicians & scientists) on our safety policy, Emergency evacuation plan (assembly area), major hazards associated with Petroleum Lab operation, , PPE, various training programs available, motivational activities (like contests in suggestion, logo, speech etc.). Next is a tour of the facility, ofcourse everyone wearing safety glasses. This could be half a day session or less. He uses a checklist to cover all areas. This is part of our Job Training Standard. Next is the training schedule for each new hire. Basic Fire fighting & Scott-Air Pak (entry into confined space) usage, Chemical spills handling, first aid & CPR, Defensive driving course, Disaster control procedures etc. are given at a certain pace. Any job-specific safety training for critical tasks operation will be given prior to handling the job (like involving radiation, microbiology, pathogens, carcinogens, Tetra Ethyl Lead etc.). Again, the most important point is periodic review training sessions. Each employee's profile indicates when he is due. John Poulos/ Lab Scientist (and Safety Committee Secretary)/ Arabian American Oil Company (ARAMCO)/ Saudi Arabia E: poulosvj@aramco.com.sa -----Original Message----- From: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List [mailto:LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu] On Behalf Of Mike Dougherty Sent: 19 October 1999 05:53 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Safety training Schedule monthly or bi-monthly training dates and times. This could be used to train new employees as well as do review training as may be needed. For those employees required to perform critical tasks schedule that training to be completed within the first two weeks of employment, however, that individual is not to perform the task until the training is completed. Hope this helps. MD SAFETY SERVICES Michael N. Dougherty, C.R.S.P. Health - Safety - Compensation Consulting, Training & Management Phone: (519) 767-6785 Pager: (519) 241-6420 Fax: (519) 767-9183 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:41:32 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Tayman, Tammy" Subject: Re: thermometers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" As a member of academia, I'm wondering if we would be doing the students a disservice if we went totally over to digital thermometers. If they never have to deal with a glass thermometer (mercury or not), and can simply read the numbers off of the display, would we not run into the same problem we have with digital clocks vs. clocks with hands? For those of you in industry, etc.: Do you use digital thermometers? Do you use traditional thermometers? What is your feeling regarding a wave of graduates who perhaps cannot read traditional thermometers? I know there are those out there who think I am overreacting, but in light of the current lack of basic common sense in college freshmen and sophmores, I really have to wonder... Tammy Tayman > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Edmiston [mailto:edmiston@bluffton.edu] > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 5:22 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: thermometers > > > In addition to the points Ben Greene mentions, students make fewer > reading errors. I suppose faculty/staff would make fewer errors also. > > We have found that these electronic thermometers hold their > calibration > very well. > > They are more expensive in the beginning, but we think they are more > economical in the long run. So far we have only broken one, and it > surprised us, so perhaps I should describe it: > > We wondered if we could use these in a sand bath or stuck into an > aluminum-block heat distributor on a hot plate. The thermometer > top-end was 150 C, which we did not intend to exceed, but we > did exceed > because the block heated up quickly. We're not sure how hot it went, > perhaps 200 C. We assumed the display would indicate some over-range > condition then work again once the temperature came down. > However, the > thermometer never recovered. We might officially diagnose the problem > some day (we kept it) but I am pretty sure I know what happened... the > thermistor got "fried." > > We purchased some bimetallic dial thermometers for use in heat blocks > and sand baths and they work quite well. > > We have also worried that the plastic housing for the > electronics might > get marred by solvent vapors. We do use these in the hood for organic > labs. However, we have not had any of this type of damage. > That might > be a combination both of the long stainless-steel stem coupled with > being in a fume hood whenever solvents are used. > > By the way, with the long stems and the electronics at the top, these > are top heavy and can tip over a small beaker. But that was also true > of the glass thermometers. > > > Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: > 419-358-3270 > Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: > 419-358-3323 > Chairman, Science Department E-Mail > edmiston@bluffton.edu > Bluffton College > 280 West College Avenue > Bluffton, OH 45817 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greene, Ben [SMTP:bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV] > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 4:41 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: thermometers > > Well, even the mercury and non-mercury containing thermometers need to > be > periodically checked for calibration. The things I dislike the most > about > glass mercury thermometers are when you drop them they break and you > have a > mercury spill and a glass mess, and when someone jams one through an > un-lubricated rubber stopper and skewers their hand you have an injury > and > both a blood and a mercury spill and a glass mess to clean up. At > least > with the alcohol thermometers there's no mercury, but the injury and > glass > mess potentials are still there. Thermal transducers do have some > advantages from this point. In fact, if you really need to > monitor the > temperature you can hook a data logger to one. > > Ben > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:47:19 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Robert Burns Subject: Re: thermometers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Excellent point. The trend is that recent grads seem to be weak in basic descriptive chemistry. They also are coming through with less lab experience, probably because of the problems with waste disposal. I'd hate to see them not be able to read a glass thermometer. WE use glass almost exclusively. they are Teflon coated to minimize Hg contamination. Thanks, Tammy, for thinking about where your students might end up. "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 Fax 815 333 4805 -----Original Message----- From: Tayman, Tammy [mailto:ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US] Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 8:42 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: thermometers As a member of academia, I'm wondering if we would be doing the students a disservice if we went totally over to digital thermometers. If they never have to deal with a glass thermometer (mercury or not), and can simply read the numbers off of the display, would we not run into the same problem we have with digital clocks vs. clocks with hands? For those of you in industry, etc.: Do you use digital thermometers? Do you use traditional thermometers? What is your feeling regarding a wave of graduates who perhaps cannot read traditional thermometers? I know there are those out there who think I am overreacting, but in light of the current lack of basic common sense in college freshmen and sophmores, I really have to wonder... Tammy Tayman > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Edmiston [mailto:edmiston@bluffton.edu] > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 5:22 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: thermometers > > > In addition to the points Ben Greene mentions, students make fewer > reading errors. I suppose faculty/staff would make fewer errors also. > > We have found that these electronic thermometers hold their > calibration > very well. > > They are more expensive in the beginning, but we think they are more > economical in the long run. So far we have only broken one, and it > surprised us, so perhaps I should describe it: > > We wondered if we could use these in a sand bath or stuck into an > aluminum-block heat distributor on a hot plate. The thermometer > top-end was 150 C, which we did not intend to exceed, but we > did exceed > because the block heated up quickly. We're not sure how hot it went, > perhaps 200 C. We assumed the display would indicate some over-range > condition then work again once the temperature came down. > However, the > thermometer never recovered. We might officially diagnose the problem > some day (we kept it) but I am pretty sure I know what happened... the > thermistor got "fried." > > We purchased some bimetallic dial thermometers for use in heat blocks > and sand baths and they work quite well. > > We have also worried that the plastic housing for the > electronics might > get marred by solvent vapors. We do use these in the hood for organic > labs. However, we have not had any of this type of damage. > That might > be a combination both of the long stainless-steel stem coupled with > being in a fume hood whenever solvents are used. > > By the way, with the long stems and the electronics at the top, these > are top heavy and can tip over a small beaker. But that was also true > of the glass thermometers. > > > Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: > 419-358-3270 > Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: > 419-358-3323 > Chairman, Science Department E-Mail > edmiston@bluffton.edu > Bluffton College > 280 West College Avenue > Bluffton, OH 45817 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greene, Ben [SMTP:bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV] > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 4:41 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: thermometers > > Well, even the mercury and non-mercury containing thermometers need to > be > periodically checked for calibration. The things I dislike the most > about > glass mercury thermometers are when you drop them they break and you > have a > mercury spill and a glass mess, and when someone jams one through an > un-lubricated rubber stopper and skewers their hand you have an injury > and > both a blood and a mercury spill and a glass mess to clean up. At > least > with the alcohol thermometers there's no mercury, but the injury and > glass > mess potentials are still there. Thermal transducers do have some > advantages from this point. In fact, if you really need to > monitor the > temperature you can hook a data logger to one. > > Ben > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:32:00 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Norm Englbrecht Subject: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit Hi fellow NACHO, This question is a bit out of the realm of lab safety but because we have such a rich mix of list members I hope someone can give me an answer. About a year ago I read a report about a court case regarding Toxic Release Inventory reports (TRI) of recycled solvent; I believe the solvent was benzene. I think the case was Hoechest vs. US EPA. The issue litigated was whether redistilled solvent that was reused or recycled in a process was to be a reportable quantity only once or each time it was distilled and recycled. I think the chemical company lost and the recycled solvent had to be reported on each use. Can anyone direct me to a copy of this case? Thanks in advance. Norm Englbrecht, CHMM ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:13:40 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Amy Gregory Subject: Re: thermometers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I completely agree! Our college freshmen in chemistry, biology, and physics learn to use triple-beam balances (except for chem unfortunately), glass thermometers, and graduated pipets. We do give them the fancier equipment by their sophomore year, but our professors believe "basics first." I did work in industry for a short time and did have to know how to use the basic equipment as well as the high tech stuff. Its best to show students a little bit of both. On the topic of thermometers, I wish I could find a nonmercury thermometer that reaches 360 C. We need them for our Meltemps. I switched to Teflon coated thermometers for the organic chemistry labs (these are wonderful). However, due to the extra coating, they do not fit in the Meltemps. Suggestions would be appreciated. Amy R. Gregory Univ. of Cin./Clermont College Lab Manager/NRCC--CHO Amy.Gregory@UC.EDU At 08:41 AM 10/19/1999 -0400, you wrote: >As a member of academia, I'm wondering if we would be doing the students a >disservice if we went totally over to digital thermometers. If they never >have to deal with a glass thermometer (mercury or not), and can simply read >the numbers off of the display, would we not run into the same problem we >have with digital clocks vs. clocks with hands? > >For those of you in industry, etc.: Do you use digital thermometers? Do >you use traditional thermometers? What is your feeling regarding a wave of >graduates who perhaps cannot read traditional thermometers? > >I know there are those out there who think I am overreacting, but in light >of the current lack of basic common sense in college freshmen and sophmores, >I really have to wonder... > >Tammy Tayman > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Michael Edmiston [mailto:edmiston@bluffton.edu] >> Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 5:22 PM >> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >> Subject: Re: thermometers >> >> >> In addition to the points Ben Greene mentions, students make fewer >> reading errors. I suppose faculty/staff would make fewer errors also. >> >> We have found that these electronic thermometers hold their >> calibration >> very well. >> >> They are more expensive in the beginning, but we think they are more >> economical in the long run. So far we have only broken one, and it >> surprised us, so perhaps I should describe it: >> >> We wondered if we could use these in a sand bath or stuck into an >> aluminum-block heat distributor on a hot plate. The thermometer >> top-end was 150 C, which we did not intend to exceed, but we >> did exceed >> because the block heated up quickly. We're not sure how hot it went, >> perhaps 200 C. We assumed the display would indicate some over-range >> condition then work again once the temperature came down. >> However, the >> thermometer never recovered. We might officially diagnose the problem >> some day (we kept it) but I am pretty sure I know what happened... the >> thermistor got "fried." >> >> We purchased some bimetallic dial thermometers for use in heat blocks >> and sand baths and they work quite well. >> >> We have also worried that the plastic housing for the >> electronics might >> get marred by solvent vapors. We do use these in the hood for organic >> labs. However, we have not had any of this type of damage. >> That might >> be a combination both of the long stainless-steel stem coupled with >> being in a fume hood whenever solvents are used. >> >> By the way, with the long stems and the electronics at the top, these >> are top heavy and can tip over a small beaker. But that was also true >> of the glass thermometers. >> >> >> Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: >> 419-358-3270 >> Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: >> 419-358-3323 >> Chairman, Science Department E-Mail >> edmiston@bluffton.edu >> Bluffton College >> 280 West College Avenue >> Bluffton, OH 45817 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Greene, Ben [SMTP:bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV] >> Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 4:41 PM >> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >> Subject: Re: thermometers >> >> Well, even the mercury and non-mercury containing thermometers need to >> be >> periodically checked for calibration. The things I dislike the most >> about >> glass mercury thermometers are when you drop them they break and you >> have a >> mercury spill and a glass mess, and when someone jams one through an >> un-lubricated rubber stopper and skewers their hand you have an injury >> and >> both a blood and a mercury spill and a glass mess to clean up. At >> least >> with the alcohol thermometers there's no mercury, but the injury and >> glass >> mess potentials are still there. Thermal transducers do have some >> advantages from this point. In fact, if you really need to >> monitor the >> temperature you can hook a data logger to one. >> >> Ben >> > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:31:13 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Robert Burns Subject: Re: thermometers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" For non-Hg high temp, try Brooklyn Thermometer. their catalog only goes to 250C, but they may go higher on special order. Their phone is 516-694-6329. "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 Fax 815 333 4805 -----Original Message----- From: Amy Gregory [mailto:cordisar@EMAIL.UC.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 9:14 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: thermometers I completely agree! Our college freshmen in chemistry, biology, and physics learn to use triple-beam balances (except for chem unfortunately), glass thermometers, and graduated pipets. We do give them the fancier equipment by their sophomore year, but our professors believe "basics first." I did work in industry for a short time and did have to know how to use the basic equipment as well as the high tech stuff. Its best to show students a little bit of both. On the topic of thermometers, I wish I could find a nonmercury thermometer that reaches 360 C. We need them for our Meltemps. I switched to Teflon coated thermometers for the organic chemistry labs (these are wonderful). However, due to the extra coating, they do not fit in the Meltemps. Suggestions would be appreciated. Amy R. Gregory Univ. of Cin./Clermont College Lab Manager/NRCC--CHO Amy.Gregory@UC.EDU At 08:41 AM 10/19/1999 -0400, you wrote: >As a member of academia, I'm wondering if we would be doing the students a >disservice if we went totally over to digital thermometers. If they never >have to deal with a glass thermometer (mercury or not), and can simply read >the numbers off of the display, would we not run into the same problem we >have with digital clocks vs. clocks with hands? > >For those of you in industry, etc.: Do you use digital thermometers? Do >you use traditional thermometers? What is your feeling regarding a wave of >graduates who perhaps cannot read traditional thermometers? > >I know there are those out there who think I am overreacting, but in light >of the current lack of basic common sense in college freshmen and sophmores, >I really have to wonder... > >Tammy Tayman > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Michael Edmiston [mailto:edmiston@bluffton.edu] >> Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 5:22 PM >> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >> Subject: Re: thermometers >> >> >> In addition to the points Ben Greene mentions, students make fewer >> reading errors. I suppose faculty/staff would make fewer errors also. >> >> We have found that these electronic thermometers hold their >> calibration >> very well. >> >> They are more expensive in the beginning, but we think they are more >> economical in the long run. So far we have only broken one, and it >> surprised us, so perhaps I should describe it: >> >> We wondered if we could use these in a sand bath or stuck into an >> aluminum-block heat distributor on a hot plate. The thermometer >> top-end was 150 C, which we did not intend to exceed, but we >> did exceed >> because the block heated up quickly. We're not sure how hot it went, >> perhaps 200 C. We assumed the display would indicate some over-range >> condition then work again once the temperature came down. >> However, the >> thermometer never recovered. We might officially diagnose the problem >> some day (we kept it) but I am pretty sure I know what happened... the >> thermistor got "fried." >> >> We purchased some bimetallic dial thermometers for use in heat blocks >> and sand baths and they work quite well. >> >> We have also worried that the plastic housing for the >> electronics might >> get marred by solvent vapors. We do use these in the hood for organic >> labs. However, we have not had any of this type of damage. >> That might >> be a combination both of the long stainless-steel stem coupled with >> being in a fume hood whenever solvents are used. >> >> By the way, with the long stems and the electronics at the top, these >> are top heavy and can tip over a small beaker. But that was also true >> of the glass thermometers. >> >> >> Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: >> 419-358-3270 >> Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: >> 419-358-3323 >> Chairman, Science Department E-Mail >> edmiston@bluffton.edu >> Bluffton College >> 280 West College Avenue >> Bluffton, OH 45817 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Greene, Ben [SMTP:bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV] >> Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 4:41 PM >> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >> Subject: Re: thermometers >> >> Well, even the mercury and non-mercury containing thermometers need to >> be >> periodically checked for calibration. The things I dislike the most >> about >> glass mercury thermometers are when you drop them they break and you >> have a >> mercury spill and a glass mess, and when someone jams one through an >> un-lubricated rubber stopper and skewers their hand you have an injury >> and >> both a blood and a mercury spill and a glass mess to clean up. At >> least >> with the alcohol thermometers there's no mercury, but the injury and >> glass >> mess potentials are still there. Thermal transducers do have some >> advantages from this point. In fact, if you really need to >> monitor the >> temperature you can hook a data logger to one. >> >> Ben >> > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:34:01 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Alain Savard Subject: Re: thermometers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" We use both digital and glass. How hard is it to train someone to read a glass thermometer anyway? If they can read a graduate cylinder, the glass thermometer should not present much of a chalenge. Just my two cents, Alain Savard, B.Sc. Chemical Process Analyst CAE Electronics Ltd. e-mail: alainsa@cae.ca -----Original Message----- For those of you in industry, etc.: Do you use digital thermometers? Do you use traditional thermometers? What is your feeling regarding a wave of graduates who perhaps cannot read traditional thermometers? Tammy Tayman ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:44:08 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Greene, Ben" Subject: explosion venting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain There was some discussion earlier on explosion venting in chemical storage areas. I recalled some specs I had put together on a flammable liquid storage unit purchased a few years back; it has explosion venting (one panel on top of each of the three compartments; each chained down so if they blow, they blow upward but are restrained). Here are some references for explosion venting: Uniform Building Code, 1988, Sec 910. 1990 Supplement to the Uniform Codes, Uniform Fire Code Sec. 79-104 Uniform Building Code, 1985, Sec 910. NFPA 30, 1987, Sec 4-4.2.1 (Cutoff Rooms and Attached Buildings) NFPA 30, 1987, Sec 5-3.2.7 Uniform Fire Code, 1988, Sec 80.301(q) Uniform FIre Code, 1988, Sec 80.402(b)(2)(D) and Sec 80.402(b)(3)(D) (Explosion Venting and Supression) There are probably dated. Anybody interested might contact one of the vendors of prefab flammable storage buildings, perhaps Safety Storage, Inc. (1-800-344-6539) or other vendor in the Industrial Hygiene Products bulletin. They usually have the regs and the specs immediately available. No endorsement here, but the information was available. Ben ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:48:14 -0400 Reply-To: "edmiston@bluffton.edu" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Edmiston Organization: Bluffton College Subject: Re: thermometers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I understand what you're saying, but think you're fighting for a dying cause. This argument seems reminiscent of the arguments that took place 10 years ago about whether we'd be doing students a disservice by letting them use calculators. We also asked similar questions when we switched from manual balances to electronic balances. I remember starting out in college using chain-o-matic double-pan balances, and eventually we were allowed to use single-pan substitution balances with digital (dial) readout. Some profs thought that was a mistake. However, within a few years all the chain-o-matics were gone. Then the same thing happened with electronic balances. We had both dial balances and electronic balances. Some profs thought electronic balances were crazy. Within a couple years, electronic balances were all we had. I think mercury thermometers are on their way out. Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: 419-358-3270 Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: 419-358-3323 Chairman, Science Department E-Mail edmiston@bluffton.edu Bluffton College 280 West College Avenue Bluffton, OH 45817 -----Original Message----- From: Tayman, Tammy [SMTP:ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US] Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 8:42 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Subject: Re: thermometers As a member of academia, I'm wondering if we would be doing the students a disservice if we went totally over to digital thermometers. If they never have to deal with a glass thermometer (mercury or not), and can simply read the numbers off of the display, would we not run into the same problem we have with digital clocks vs. clocks with hands? For those of you in industry, etc.: Do you use digital thermometers? Do you use traditional thermometers? What is your feeling regarding a wave of graduates who perhaps cannot read traditional thermometers? I know there are those out there who think I am overreacting, but in light of the current lack of basic common sense in college freshmen and sophmores, I really have to wonder... Tammy Tayman > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Edmiston [mailto:edmiston@bluffton.edu] > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 5:22 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: thermometers > > > In addition to the points Ben Greene mentions, students make fewer > reading errors. I suppose faculty/staff would make fewer errors also. > > We have found that these electronic thermometers hold their > calibration > very well. > > They are more expensive in the beginning, but we think they are more > economical in the long run. So far we have only broken one, and it > surprised us, so perhaps I should describe it: > > We wondered if we could use these in a sand bath or stuck into an > aluminum-block heat distributor on a hot plate. The thermometer > top-end was 150 C, which we did not intend to exceed, but we > did exceed > because the block heated up quickly. We're not sure how hot it went, > perhaps 200 C. We assumed the display would indicate some over-range > condition then work again once the temperature came down. > However, the > thermometer never recovered. We might officially diagnose the problem > some day (we kept it) but I am pretty sure I know what happened... the > thermistor got "fried." > > We purchased some bimetallic dial thermometers for use in heat blocks > and sand baths and they work quite well. > > We have also worried that the plastic housing for the > electronics might > get marred by solvent vapors. We do use these in the hood for organic > labs. However, we have not had any of this type of damage. > That might > be a combination both of the long stainless-steel stem coupled with > being in a fume hood whenever solvents are used. > > By the way, with the long stems and the electronics at the top, these > are top heavy and can tip over a small beaker. But that was also true > of the glass thermometers. > > > Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: > 419-358-3270 > Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: > 419-358-3323 > Chairman, Science Department E-Mail > edmiston@bluffton.edu > Bluffton College > 280 West College Avenue > Bluffton, OH 45817 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greene, Ben [SMTP:bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV] > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 4:41 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: thermometers > > Well, even the mercury and non-mercury containing thermometers need to > be > periodically checked for calibration. The things I dislike the most > about > glass mercury thermometers are when you drop them they break and you > have a > mercury spill and a glass mess, and when someone jams one through an > un-lubricated rubber stopper and skewers their hand you have an injury > and > both a blood and a mercury spill and a glass mess to clean up. At > least > with the alcohol thermometers there's no mercury, but the injury and > glass > mess potentials are still there. Thermal transducers do have some > advantages from this point. In fact, if you really need to > monitor the > temperature you can hook a data logger to one. > > Ben > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:56:51 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Tayman, Tammy" Subject: Re: thermometers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Since our meltemps are only used by our sophmores, we use thermocouples. Actually, that is the only application where we use thermocouples and digital thermometers! Tammy Tayman > -----Original Message----- > From: Amy Gregory [mailto:cordisar@EMAIL.UC.EDU] > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 9:14 AM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: thermometers > > > I completely agree! Our college freshmen in chemistry, biology, and > physics learn to use triple-beam balances (except for chem > unfortunately), > glass thermometers, and graduated pipets. We do give them the fancier > equipment by their sophomore year, but our professors believe "basics > first." I did work in industry for a short time and did > have to know how > to use the basic equipment as well as the high tech stuff. > Its best to > show students a little bit of both. > > On the topic of thermometers, I wish I could find a > nonmercury thermometer > that reaches 360 C. We need them for our Meltemps. I > switched to Teflon > coated thermometers for the organic chemistry labs (these are > wonderful). > However, due to the extra coating, they do not fit in the Meltemps. > Suggestions would be appreciated. > > Amy R. Gregory > Univ. of Cin./Clermont College > Lab Manager/NRCC--CHO > Amy.Gregory@UC.EDU > > > > At 08:41 AM 10/19/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >As a member of academia, I'm wondering if we would be doing > the students a > >disservice if we went totally over to digital thermometers. > If they never > >have to deal with a glass thermometer (mercury or not), and > can simply read > >the numbers off of the display, would we not run into the > same problem we > >have with digital clocks vs. clocks with hands? > > > >For those of you in industry, etc.: Do you use digital > thermometers? Do > >you use traditional thermometers? What is your feeling > regarding a wave of > >graduates who perhaps cannot read traditional thermometers? > > > >I know there are those out there who think I am > overreacting, but in light > >of the current lack of basic common sense in college > freshmen and sophmores, > >I really have to wonder... > > > >Tammy Tayman > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Michael Edmiston [mailto:edmiston@bluffton.edu] > >> Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 5:22 PM > >> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > >> Subject: Re: thermometers > >> > >> > >> In addition to the points Ben Greene mentions, students make fewer > >> reading errors. I suppose faculty/staff would make fewer > errors also. > >> > >> We have found that these electronic thermometers hold their > >> calibration > >> very well. > >> > >> They are more expensive in the beginning, but we think > they are more > >> economical in the long run. So far we have only broken one, and it > >> surprised us, so perhaps I should describe it: > >> > >> We wondered if we could use these in a sand bath or stuck into an > >> aluminum-block heat distributor on a hot plate. The thermometer > >> top-end was 150 C, which we did not intend to exceed, but we > >> did exceed > >> because the block heated up quickly. We're not sure how > hot it went, > >> perhaps 200 C. We assumed the display would indicate some > over-range > >> condition then work again once the temperature came down. > >> However, the > >> thermometer never recovered. We might officially diagnose > the problem > >> some day (we kept it) but I am pretty sure I know what > happened... the > >> thermistor got "fried." > >> > >> We purchased some bimetallic dial thermometers for use in > heat blocks > >> and sand baths and they work quite well. > >> > >> We have also worried that the plastic housing for the > >> electronics might > >> get marred by solvent vapors. We do use these in the hood > for organic > >> labs. However, we have not had any of this type of damage. > >> That might > >> be a combination both of the long stainless-steel stem coupled with > >> being in a fume hood whenever solvents are used. > >> > >> By the way, with the long stems and the electronics at the > top, these > >> are top heavy and can tip over a small beaker. But that > was also true > >> of the glass thermometers. > >> > >> > >> Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: > >> 419-358-3270 > >> Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: > >> 419-358-3323 > >> Chairman, Science Department E-Mail > >> edmiston@bluffton.edu > >> Bluffton College > >> 280 West College Avenue > >> Bluffton, OH 45817 > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Greene, Ben [SMTP:bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV] > >> Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 4:41 PM > >> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > >> Subject: Re: thermometers > >> > >> Well, even the mercury and non-mercury containing > thermometers need to > >> be > >> periodically checked for calibration. The things I > dislike the most > >> about > >> glass mercury thermometers are when you drop them they > break and you > >> have a > >> mercury spill and a glass mess, and when someone jams one > through an > >> un-lubricated rubber stopper and skewers their hand you > have an injury > >> and > >> both a blood and a mercury spill and a glass mess to clean up. At > >> least > >> with the alcohol thermometers there's no mercury, but the > injury and > >> glass > >> mess potentials are still there. Thermal transducers do have some > >> advantages from this point. In fact, if you really need to > >> monitor the > >> temperature you can hook a data logger to one. > >> > >> Ben > >> > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:50:48 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Tom Spitz Organization: University of Maine System Subject: Re: Polarized Plugs Comments: To: Labsafe@AOL.COM In-Reply-To: <0.d8ca8203.253a3e1d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT In a former life I was the Production Manager in a small midwestern Electronics firm. One of the products we made was a microprocessor based commdities quote system for grain elevator use. The unit came back from the field with a tag that said "broak", the bench technician plug it in and fuses blew, smoke poured out and there was excitement generated for the whole staff. Investigation proved that that the bypass capacitor, from the hot side of the power line to chassis ground was shorted. Likely due to lightning surge, for some reason lightning is drawn to grain elevators in the midwest. We used non-captive power cords, investigation of the the cord sent back with the unit showed that the ground pin had been removed. If the technician not used the cord already on the test bench he would have been dealing with a hot chassis, as it was the fuses blew and he was protected. Needless to say added a grounding check to a periodic safety checks. Tom Spitz Chemical Hygiene Officer Facility Emergency Coordinator Department of Environmental Health and Safety University of Maine Orono, ME. 04469 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:28:16 -0400 Reply-To: "edmiston@bluffton.edu" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Edmiston Organization: Bluffton College Subject: Re: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geesh! Is this correct? Please let us know what you find. I am well aware that the SARA 313 reporting requirements (TRI) require industries to report "releases" that are not actual releases. For example, material sent to an off-site incinerator must be included as a TRI "release" for that industry even though the material was not released into the environment at that industrial site, nor was it released to the environment at all (in the form of the listed chemical). For this type of reason I always have viewed the TRI as worthless in terms of its initial goal of informing citizens about the types and quantities of toxic chemicals being emitted into the environment by their local industries. However, I was not aware that recycled material had to be listed as a TRI release. What incentive does that give for an industry to recycle stuff if they still get the "black-eye" of listing recycled material as a "release?" I already think SARA 313 needs fixed. If this recycling example is correct, then TRI reporting guidelines need fixed worse than I thought they did. Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: 419-358-3270 Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: 419-358-3323 Chairman, Science Department E-Mail edmiston@bluffton.edu Bluffton College 280 West College Avenue Bluffton, OH 45817 -----Original Message----- From: Norm Englbrecht [SMTP:norm.englbrecht@VARN.COM] Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 10:32 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent Hi fellow NACHO, This question is a bit out of the realm of lab safety but because we have such a rich mix of list members I hope someone can give me an answer. About a year ago I read a report about a court case regarding Toxic Release Inventory reports (TRI) of recycled solvent; I believe the solvent was benzene. I think the case was Hoechest vs. US EPA. The issue litigated was whether redistilled solvent that was reused or recycled in a process was to be a reportable quantity only once or each time it was distilled and recycled. I think the chemical company lost and the recycled solvent had to be reported on each use. Can anyone direct me to a copy of this case? Thanks in advance. Norm Englbrecht, CHMM ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:44:43 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: David Price Subject: Laboratory Closeout Checklists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a new subscriber recently tasked with coordinating "Laboratory Closeouts," I'm interested in Guidelines or Checklists sources on coordinating research lab closeouts. My need is to find examples of end documents showing how other organizations approach this task, rather than code references. Dave Price CSP, CFPS Senior Safety Officer Vanderbilt Environmental Health & Safety 615-343-0694 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:52:02 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "John M. Neil" Subject: Re: thermometers In-Reply-To: <01BF1A17.109DA4C0.edmiston@bluffton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I don't have any problem with using digital instrumental readouts, calculators, or computer models. They are faster and reduce the amount of time spent pedaling. The advantage of the old way of doing things is that you developed a quantitative sense of size which made it easier to spot gross errors. To often students today accept whatever on the digital display since electronics magically produce better numbers -- that is why they report all eight digits. Emphasis needs to be put on estimating before measuring or calculating so that people will check when something is much larger or smaller than their estimate. Too much or too little of a reagent can cause a major accident. At 09:48 AM 10/19/99 -0400, you wrote: >I understand what you're saying, but think you're fighting for a dying >cause. This argument seems reminiscent of the arguments that took >place 10 years ago about whether we'd be doing students a disservice by >letting them use calculators. We also asked similar questions when we >switched from manual balances to electronic balances. > >I remember starting out in college using chain-o-matic double-pan >balances, and eventually we were allowed to use single-pan substitution >balances with digital (dial) readout. Some profs thought that was a >mistake. However, within a few years all the chain-o-matics were gone. > Then the same thing happened with electronic balances. We had both >dial balances and electronic balances. Some profs thought electronic >balances were crazy. Within a couple years, electronic balances were >all we had. > >I think mercury thermometers are on their way out. > >Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: 419-358-3270 >Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: 419-358-3323 >Chairman, Science Department E-Mail edmiston@bluffton.edu >Bluffton College >280 West College Avenue >Bluffton, OH 45817 > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Tayman, Tammy [SMTP:ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US] >Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 8:42 AM >To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu >Subject: Re: thermometers > >As a member of academia, I'm wondering if we would be doing the >students a >disservice if we went totally over to digital thermometers. If they >never >have to deal with a glass thermometer (mercury or not), and can simply >read >the numbers off of the display, would we not run into the same problem >we >have with digital clocks vs. clocks with hands? > >For those of you in industry, etc.: Do you use digital thermometers? > Do >you use traditional thermometers? What is your feeling regarding a >wave of >graduates who perhaps cannot read traditional thermometers? > >I know there are those out there who think I am overreacting, but in >light >of the current lack of basic common sense in college freshmen and >sophmores, >I really have to wonder... > >Tammy Tayman > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Michael Edmiston [mailto:edmiston@bluffton.edu] >> Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 5:22 PM >> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >> Subject: Re: thermometers >> >> >> In addition to the points Ben Greene mentions, students make fewer >> reading errors. I suppose faculty/staff would make fewer errors >also. >> >> We have found that these electronic thermometers hold their >> calibration >> very well. >> >> They are more expensive in the beginning, but we think they are more >> economical in the long run. So far we have only broken one, and it >> surprised us, so perhaps I should describe it: >> >> We wondered if we could use these in a sand bath or stuck into an >> aluminum-block heat distributor on a hot plate. The thermometer >> top-end was 150 C, which we did not intend to exceed, but we >> did exceed >> because the block heated up quickly. We're not sure how hot it went, >> perhaps 200 C. We assumed the display would indicate some over-range >> condition then work again once the temperature came down. >> However, the >> thermometer never recovered. We might officially diagnose the >problem >> some day (we kept it) but I am pretty sure I know what happened... >the >> thermistor got "fried." >> >> We purchased some bimetallic dial thermometers for use in heat blocks >> and sand baths and they work quite well. >> >> We have also worried that the plastic housing for the >> electronics might >> get marred by solvent vapors. We do use these in the hood for >organic >> labs. However, we have not had any of this type of damage. >> That might >> be a combination both of the long stainless-steel stem coupled with >> being in a fume hood whenever solvents are used. >> >> By the way, with the long stems and the electronics at the top, these >> are top heavy and can tip over a small beaker. But that was also >true >> of the glass thermometers. >> >> >> Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: >> 419-358-3270 >> Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: >> 419-358-3323 >> Chairman, Science Department E-Mail >> edmiston@bluffton.edu >> Bluffton College >> 280 West College Avenue >> Bluffton, OH 45817 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Greene, Ben [SMTP:bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV] >> Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 4:41 PM >> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >> Subject: Re: thermometers >> >> Well, even the mercury and non-mercury containing thermometers need >to >> be >> periodically checked for calibration. The things I dislike the most >> about >> glass mercury thermometers are when you drop them they break and you >> have a >> mercury spill and a glass mess, and when someone jams one through an >> un-lubricated rubber stopper and skewers their hand you have an >injury >> and >> both a blood and a mercury spill and a glass mess to clean up. At >> least >> with the alcohol thermometers there's no mercury, but the injury and >> glass >> mess potentials are still there. Thermal transducers do have some >> advantages from this point. In fact, if you really need to >> monitor the >> temperature you can hook a data logger to one. >> >> Ben >> > > John M. Neil Thermochemistry Facility Department of Chemical Engineering & Material Science University of California at Davis One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616-8779 phone: (530) 754-2130 Fax: (530) 752-9307 "Entropy isn't what it use to be." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:15:00 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: JA Steffens Organization: UF Subject: glogerm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit found their web site: glogerm.com, info indicates available in oil or powder...does not indicate the "primary" ingredient, but it appears to be of a uniform "small" size. think i will try a mixture of fluorscein and talc, they have to use something as a carrier, do you have any ideas for the powder carrier? Julie Ann ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:19:45 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: JA Steffens Organization: UF Subject: glogerm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sorry, wasn't paying attention, not intended for entire list Julie Ann ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:15:38 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike Dougherty Subject: Re: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent Comments: To: edmiston@bluffton.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Man do I agree with you. Someone is out of control. MD SAFETY SERVICES Michael N. Dougherty, C.R.S.P. Health - Safety - Compensation Consulting, Training & Management Phone: (519) 767-6785 Pager: (519) 241-6420 Fax: (519) 767-9183 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:18:18 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: thermometers In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991019085202.0093c440@blue.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" AMEN TO THE BELOW. LEARN ESTIMATING; LEARN MEANING OF SINIFICANT FIGURES. AS FOR 2ND BELOW: TOO MANY BLACK BOXES IN TEACHING - WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING. MARY ANN At 08:52 AM 10/19/99 -0700, you wrote: >I don't have any problem with using digital instrumental readouts, >calculators, or computer models. They are faster and reduce the amount of >time spent pedaling. The advantage of the old way of doing things is that >you developed a quantitative sense of size which made it easier to spot >gross errors. To often students today accept whatever on the digital >display since electronics magically produce better numbers -- that is why >they report all eight digits. Emphasis needs to be put on estimating >before measuring or calculating so that people will check when something is >much larger or smaller than their estimate. Too much or too little of a >reagent can cause a major accident. > > > > >At 09:48 AM 10/19/99 -0400, you wrote: >>I understand what you're saying, but think you're fighting for a dying >>cause. This argument seems reminiscent of the arguments that took >>place 10 years ago about whether we'd be doing students a disservice by >>letting them use calculators. We also asked similar questions when we >>switched from manual balances to electronic balances. >> >>I remember starting out in college using chain-o-matic double-pan >>balances, and eventually we were allowed to use single-pan substitution >>balances with digital (dial) readout. Some profs thought that was a >>mistake. However, within a few years all the chain-o-matics were gone. >> Then the same thing happened with electronic balances. We had both >>dial balances and electronic balances. Some profs thought electronic >>balances were crazy. Within a couple years, electronic balances were >>all we had. >> >>I think mercury thermometers are on their way out. >> >>Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: 419-358-3270 >>Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: 419-358-3323 >>Chairman, Science Department E-Mail >edmiston@bluffton.edu >>Bluffton College >>280 West College Avenue >>Bluffton, OH 45817 >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Tayman, Tammy [SMTP:ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US] >>Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 8:42 AM >>To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu >>Subject: Re: thermometers >> >>As a member of academia, I'm wondering if we would be doing the >>students a >>disservice if we went totally over to digital thermometers. If they >>never >>have to deal with a glass thermometer (mercury or not), and can simply >>read >>the numbers off of the display, would we not run into the same problem >>we >>have with digital clocks vs. clocks with hands? >> >>For those of you in industry, etc.: Do you use digital thermometers? >> Do >>you use traditional thermometers? What is your feeling regarding a >>wave of >>graduates who perhaps cannot read traditional thermometers? >> >>I know there are those out there who think I am overreacting, but in >>light >>of the current lack of basic common sense in college freshmen and >>sophmores, >>I really have to wonder... >> >>Tammy Tayman >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Michael Edmiston [mailto:edmiston@bluffton.edu] >>> Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 5:22 PM >>> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >>> Subject: Re: thermometers >>> >>> >>> In addition to the points Ben Greene mentions, students make fewer >>> reading errors. I suppose faculty/staff would make fewer errors >>also. >>> >>> We have found that these electronic thermometers hold their >>> calibration >>> very well. >>> >>> They are more expensive in the beginning, but we think they are more >>> economical in the long run. So far we have only broken one, and it >>> surprised us, so perhaps I should describe it: >>> >>> We wondered if we could use these in a sand bath or stuck into an >>> aluminum-block heat distributor on a hot plate. The thermometer >>> top-end was 150 C, which we did not intend to exceed, but we >>> did exceed >>> because the block heated up quickly. We're not sure how hot it went, >>> perhaps 200 C. We assumed the display would indicate some over-range >>> condition then work again once the temperature came down. >>> However, the >>> thermometer never recovered. We might officially diagnose the >>problem >>> some day (we kept it) but I am pretty sure I know what happened... >>the >>> thermistor got "fried." >>> >>> We purchased some bimetallic dial thermometers for use in heat blocks >>> and sand baths and they work quite well. >>> >>> We have also worried that the plastic housing for the >>> electronics might >>> get marred by solvent vapors. We do use these in the hood for >>organic >>> labs. However, we have not had any of this type of damage. >>> That might >>> be a combination both of the long stainless-steel stem coupled with >>> being in a fume hood whenever solvents are used. >>> >>> By the way, with the long stems and the electronics at the top, these >>> are top heavy and can tip over a small beaker. But that was also >>true >>> of the glass thermometers. >>> >>> >>> Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: >>> 419-358-3270 >>> Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: >>> 419-358-3323 >>> Chairman, Science Department E-Mail >>> edmiston@bluffton.edu >>> Bluffton College >>> 280 West College Avenue >>> Bluffton, OH 45817 >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Greene, Ben [SMTP:bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV] >>> Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 4:41 PM >>> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >>> Subject: Re: thermometers >>> >>> Well, even the mercury and non-mercury containing thermometers need >>to >>> be >>> periodically checked for calibration. The things I dislike the most >>> about >>> glass mercury thermometers are when you drop them they break and you >>> have a >>> mercury spill and a glass mess, and when someone jams one through an >>> un-lubricated rubber stopper and skewers their hand you have an >>injury >>> and >>> both a blood and a mercury spill and a glass mess to clean up. At >>> least >>> with the alcohol thermometers there's no mercury, but the injury and >>> glass >>> mess potentials are still there. Thermal transducers do have some >>> advantages from this point. In fact, if you really need to >>> monitor the >>> temperature you can hook a data logger to one. >>> >>> Ben >>> >> >> >John M. Neil > >Thermochemistry Facility >Department of Chemical Engineering & Material Science >University of California at Davis >One Shields Avenue >Davis, CA 95616-8779 > >phone: (530) 754-2130 Fax: (530) 752-9307 > >"Entropy isn't what it use to be." > Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority Past Chair, DivCHAS, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:48:35 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Rebecca Levins, RSR Corporation" Subject: Re: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BF1A30.573F93C0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BF1A30.573F93C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have seen that in the Chemical Regulation Reporter that BNA puts out. = You can search their back issues to find the article on it.=20 If you do not have a subscription, you might do their 30 day trial = subscription. = http://pubs.powerize.com/nwsstnd/main.nsf/Home/Home?OpenDocument They have a good service. We subscribe to their CD ROM and paper copy of = Chemical Regulation Reporter. It is on page 638 of vol 22, no 14, July = 3, 1998. The case is Hoechst Celanese Corp. v US no 97-1578, 6/26/98. It does = involve benzene, but it is the Clean Air Act that they violated. That = recycling did not constitute a type of 'use' that would trigger = compliance obligations (subject to the benzene rule). As far as TRI goes, the only time you don't count the material is if it = is in a on-site reuse operation where you only add material that has = been lost - like refrigerant - and then you count only the material = added not all of the material there. (pg 19 of 1998 TRI instructions) I = don't believe redistilled solvent would fit this unless it was in some = sort of closed loop system. This counting is for threshold = determination. If you use the 50 gallons of benzene and then distill 48 = gallons, you will count 98 gallons of benzene toward the threshold. Be = careful of what category of use you place this in, otherwise use, = manufacture or process. You may put 50 gallons toward otherwise use and = 48 gallons toward manufacture/process depending on what you are doing = with the benzene. Try the hotline for more info 800-535-0202. They = usually can at least point you in the right direction. There is also a narrow laboratory activities exemption you may want to = look into. Best regards, Rebecca Levins Environmental, Health & Safety Compliance Specialist RSR Corporation Dallas, Texas RSRrdl@onramp.net (214) 583-0245 -----Original Message----- From: Norm Englbrecht [SMTP:norm.englbrecht@VARN.COM] Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 9:32 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent Hi fellow NACHO, This question is a bit out of the realm of lab safety but because = we have such a rich mix of list members I hope someone can give me an answer. About a year ago I read a report about a court case regarding Toxic Release Inventory reports (TRI) of recycled solvent; I believe the solvent was benzene. I think the case was Hoechest vs. US EPA. = The issue litigated was whether redistilled solvent that was reused or recycled in a process was to be a reportable quantity only once or each time it was distilled and recycled. I think the chemical = company lost and the recycled solvent had to be reported on each use. Can anyone direct me to a copy of this case? Thanks in advance. Norm Englbrecht, CHMM ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:22:57 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Rebecca Levins, RSR Corporation" Subject: Re: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit If you send your waste off site for recycling Section 6.2 has 'transfers to other off-site locations'. For on site recycling, Section 7a has 'on-site waste treatment methods and efficiency'. Then you break it down on section 8 as recycled, treated or released. Remember if it is a waste, then whatever you do with it is reported on the Form R. You are right, it does not encourage recycling. They are trying to encourage 'source reduction' but they are doing it at the expense of recycling. It is about to get worse, they are looking at lowering the threshold levels and doing away with the de minimus exemption. Best regards, Rebecca Levins Environmental, Health & Safety Compliance Specialist RSR Corporation Dallas, Texas RSRrdl@onramp.net (214) 583-0245 -----Original Message----- From: Michael Edmiston [SMTP:edmiston@bluffton.edu] Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 10:28 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent Geesh! Is this correct? Please let us know what you find. I am well aware that the SARA 313 reporting requirements (TRI) require industries to report "releases" that are not actual releases. For example, material sent to an off-site incinerator must be included as a TRI "release" for that industry even though the material was not released into the environment at that industrial site, nor was it released to the environment at all (in the form of the listed chemical). For this type of reason I always have viewed the TRI as worthless in terms of its initial goal of informing citizens about the types and quantities of toxic chemicals being emitted into the environment by their local industries. However, I was not aware that recycled material had to be listed as a TRI release. What incentive does that give for an industry to recycle stuff if they still get the "black-eye" of listing recycled material as a "release?" I already think SARA 313 needs fixed. If this recycling example is correct, then TRI reporting guidelines need fixed worse than I thought they did. Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: 419-358-3270 Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: 419-358-3323 Chairman, Science Department E-Mail edmiston@bluffton.edu Bluffton College 280 West College Avenue Bluffton, OH 45817 -----Original Message----- From: Norm Englbrecht [SMTP:norm.englbrecht@VARN.COM] Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 10:32 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent Hi fellow NACHO, This question is a bit out of the realm of lab safety but because we have such a rich mix of list members I hope someone can give me an answer. About a year ago I read a report about a court case regarding Toxic Release Inventory reports (TRI) of recycled solvent; I believe the solvent was benzene. I think the case was Hoechest vs. US EPA. The issue litigated was whether redistilled solvent that was reused or recycled in a process was to be a reportable quantity only once or each time it was distilled and recycled. I think the chemical company lost and the recycled solvent had to be reported on each use. Can anyone direct me to a copy of this case? Thanks in advance. Norm Englbrecht, CHMM ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:10:35 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Harry Elston Subject: Re: Laboratory Closeout Checklists In-Reply-To: <000001bf1a48$ddc1db20$6bcb3b81@safety.vanderbilt.edu.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:44 AM 10/19/99 -0500, you wrote: >As a new subscriber recently tasked with coordinating "Laboratory >Closeouts," I'm interested in Guidelines or Checklists sources on >coordinating research lab closeouts. My need is to find examples of end >documents showing how other organizations approach this task, rather than >code references. > There is an excellent article in the September/October issue of Chemical Health and Safety on laboratory renovation and construction. Harry Harry J. Elston, Ph.D. Editor, Chemical Health and Safety and Chemical Hygiene Officer Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety Opinions are my own, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah "As a matter of fact, I do know 10 things that are carved in stone." -God ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:39:09 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jonathan Chase Subject: Re: explosion venting In-Reply-To: <45C82258A1B2D111892500805FCC9B0D020A4422@nt05.wstf.nasa.go v> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I apologize for not taking notes and promoting redundancy, but in recent discussions some individuals were talking about the air changes per hour required for hazardous waste chemical storage rooms. As is usually the case, this issue arose shortly after reading and deleting old email. Does anyone know of a rule of thumb or requirement relating to air changes per hour for exhaust systems servicing these types of storage vaults? The proposed location of the storage vault is on the ground floor of a University building, 2 of the walls are exterior. At 07:44 AM 10/19/99 -0600, Greene, Ben wrote: >There was some discussion earlier on explosion venting in chemical storage >areas. I recalled some specs I had put together on a flammable liquid >storage unit purchased a few years back; it has explosion venting (one panel >on top of each of the three compartments; each chained down so if they blow, >they blow upward but are restrained). Here are some references for >explosion venting: > >Uniform Building Code, 1988, Sec 910. >1990 Supplement to the Uniform Codes, Uniform Fire Code Sec. 79-104 >Uniform Building Code, 1985, Sec 910. >NFPA 30, 1987, Sec 4-4.2.1 (Cutoff Rooms and Attached Buildings) >NFPA 30, 1987, Sec 5-3.2.7 >Uniform Fire Code, 1988, Sec 80.301(q) >Uniform FIre Code, 1988, Sec 80.402(b)(2)(D) and Sec 80.402(b)(3)(D) >(Explosion Venting and Supression) > >There are probably dated. Anybody interested might contact one of the >vendors of prefab flammable storage buildings, perhaps Safety Storage, Inc. >(1-800-344-6539) or other vendor in the Industrial Hygiene Products >bulletin. They usually have the regs and the specs immediately available. >No endorsement here, but the information was available. > >Ben ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:41:23 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jonathan Chase Subject: Re: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent Comments: To: "edmiston@bluffton.edu" In-Reply-To: <01BF1A25.09D920C0.edmiston@bluffton.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I thought that research laboratories were exempt from SARA Title III reporting, does any one know for sure? At 11:28 AM 10/19/99 -0400, Michael Edmiston wrote: >Geesh! Is this correct? Please let us know what you find. > >I am well aware that the SARA 313 reporting requirements (TRI) require >industries to report "releases" that are not actual releases. For >example, material sent to an off-site incinerator must be included as a >TRI "release" for that industry even though the material was not >released into the environment at that industrial site, nor was it >released to the environment at all (in the form of the listed >chemical). > >For this type of reason I always have viewed the TRI as worthless in >terms of its initial goal of informing citizens about the types and >quantities of toxic chemicals being emitted into the environment by >their local industries. > >However, I was not aware that recycled material had to be listed as a >TRI release. What incentive does that give for an industry to recycle >stuff if they still get the "black-eye" of listing recycled material as >a "release?" > >I already think SARA 313 needs fixed. If this recycling example is >correct, then TRI reporting guidelines need fixed worse than I thought >they did. > >Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: 419-358-3270 >Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: 419-358-3323 >Chairman, Science Department E-Mail >edmiston@bluffton.edu >Bluffton College >280 West College Avenue >Bluffton, OH 45817 > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Norm Englbrecht [SMTP:norm.englbrecht@VARN.COM] >Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 10:32 AM >To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >Subject: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent > > Hi fellow NACHO, > > This question is a bit out of the realm of lab safety but because >we > have such a rich mix of list members I hope someone can give me an > answer. > > About a year ago I read a report about a court case regarding >Toxic > Release Inventory reports (TRI) of recycled solvent; I believe the > solvent was benzene. I think the case was Hoechest vs. US EPA. > The > issue litigated was whether redistilled solvent that was reused or > recycled in a process was to be a reportable quantity only once or > each time it was distilled and recycled. I think the chemical >company > lost and the recycled solvent had to be reported on each use. > > Can anyone direct me to a copy of this case? > > Thanks in advance. > > Norm Englbrecht, CHMM ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:43:00 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jonathan Chase Subject: Re: Laboratory Closeout Checklists In-Reply-To: <"000001bf1a48$ddc1db20$6bcb3b81"@safety.vanderbilt.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii David, I am also interested in any close out lists that you may come across. I do not have a high level of confidence in the one currently used at my facility and would be interested in what others are doing. At 10:44 AM 10/19/99 -0500, you wrote: >As a new subscriber recently tasked with coordinating "Laboratory >Closeouts," I'm interested in Guidelines or Checklists sources on >coordinating research lab closeouts. My need is to find examples of end >documents showing how other organizations approach this task, rather than >code references. > > >Dave Price CSP, CFPS >Senior Safety Officer >Vanderbilt Environmental Health & Safety >615-343-0694 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:49:26 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Alain Savard Subject: Re: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I don't usually answer to this kind of e-mail dealing with US regulations, but... How does this handle closed loop system, such as dry cleaning equipment that does recycle it's own solvant internally? Can a recycling process be defined as an extended process loop? Just one curious canadian, Alain Savard, B.Sc. Chemical Process Analyst e-mail: alainsa@cae.ca -----Original Message----- If you send your waste off site for recycling Section 6.2 has 'transfers to other off-site locations'. For on site recycling, Section 7a has 'on-site waste treatment methods and efficiency'. Then you break it down on section 8 as recycled, treated or released. Remember if it is a waste, then whatever you do with it is reported on the Form R. You are right, it does not encourage recycling. They are trying to encourage 'source reduction' but they are doing it at the expense of recycling. Rebecca Levins ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:14:04 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Schultz William F Subject: Re: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >From the Federal Register/Vol. No. 199/Thursday, October 15, 1987/Rules and Regulations - TIER TWO INSTRUCTIONS - WHAT CHEMICALS ARE INCLUDED - "In addition, Section 311(e) of Title III excludes the following substances ....(iv) Any substance to the extent it is used in a research laboratory or a hospital or other medical facility under the direct supervision of a technically qualified individual:" The Maryland Department of Environment currently exempts laboratories based on Section 311(e) of Title III. Bill Schultz -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Chase [mailto:jchase@DREXEL.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 5:41 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent I thought that research laboratories were exempt from SARA Title III reporting, does any one know for sure? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:50:00 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike Dougherty Subject: Re: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think it is time Legislators were required to come from the area they claim to represent before they get into positions of decision making. This applies for Canada and the USA. Take care all and have fun... MD SAFETY SERVICES Michael N. Dougherty, C.R.S.P. Health - Safety - Compensation Consulting, Training & Management Phone: (519) 767-6785 Pager: (519) 241-6420 Fax: (519) 767-9183 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:05:23 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Rebecca Levins, RSR Corporation" Subject: Re: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BF1A43.67E11B00" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BF1A43.67E11B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A Tier Two is the inventory part of SARA it is under section 311/312.=20 We have been discussing the emissions part of SARA under section 313, = which is also commonly called TRI (Toxic Release Inventory) (note the = 'Release') and Form R. For you to have to file a report (a Form R) under the TRI (SARA section = 313), you have to fall within a certain SIC code. If you are part of a = 'multi-establishment' facility the rules get a little more sticky and it = *generally* has a SIC dependent on the largest part of the = multi-establishment facility. This is like an industrial park sort of = thing with many facilities (even owned by different companies) within = the same building or complex. I don't believe a regular laboratory has a SIC code that would cause it = to file a Form R under SARA 313.=20 If there is a lab within a facility that has a SIC code which has to = file, there are some exemptions along the same lines as the Tier Two = reports. Pilot plant scale and specialty chemical production do not = qualify for the exemption nor does the use of 313 reportable chemicals = for laboratory support activities, such as the use of chemicals for = equipment maintenance (pg 17 TRI instructions). Best regards, Rebecca Levins Environmental, Health & Safety Compliance Specialist RSR Corporation Dallas, Texas RSRrdl@onramp.net (214) 583-0245 -----Original Message----- From: Schultz William F [SMTP:William.Schultz@DET.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL] Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 2:14 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent >From the Federal Register/Vol. No. 199/Thursday, October 15, 1987/Rules = and Regulations - TIER TWO INSTRUCTIONS - WHAT CHEMICALS ARE INCLUDED - "In addition, Section 311(e) of Title III excludes the following substances ...(iv) Any substance to the extent it is used in a research laboratory = or a hospital or other medical facility under the direct supervision of a technically qualified individual:" The Maryland Department of Environment currently exempts laboratories = based on Section 311(e) of Title III. Bill Schultz -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Chase [mailto:jchase@DREXEL.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 5:41 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent I thought that research laboratories were exempt from = SARA Title III reporting, does any one know for sure? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:42:05 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: David Price Subject: Re: Laboratory Closeout Checklists In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991019144157.00ade3f0@mail.drexel.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've posted your address in my e-mail notes. As soon as some significant responses arrive, I'll forward them. After I overhaul our procedures, I'll share that with you also. Dave Price CSP, CFPS Senior Safety Officer Vanderbilt Environmental Health & Safety 615-343-0694 -----Original Message----- From: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List [mailto:LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU] On Behalf Of Jonathan Chase Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 4:43 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Laboratory Closeout Checklists David, I am also interested in any close out lists that you may come across. I do not have a high level of confidence in the one currently used at my facility and would be interested in what others are doing. At 10:44 AM 10/19/99 -0500, you wrote: >As a new subscriber recently tasked with coordinating "Laboratory >Closeouts," I'm interested in Guidelines or Checklists sources on >coordinating research lab closeouts. My need is to find examples of end >documents showing how other organizations approach this task, rather than >code references. > > >Dave Price CSP, CFPS >Senior Safety Officer >Vanderbilt Environmental Health & Safety >615-343-0694 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:36:16 -0600 Reply-To: terrie@cc.usu.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Terrie Wierenga Organization: USDA-ARS PPRL Subject: Re: Laboratory Closeout Checklists MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit David (and other interested folks): The University of Minnesota has a closeout checklist posted on their web site at http://www.dehs.umn.edu/closeout.html I've also got a closeout checklist for radioactive labs developed by the USDA Radiation Safety Staff. Hope this helps! Terrie -- **** Terrie Wierenga, CDSO, LRPO USDA-ARS Poisonous Plant Research Lab 1150 East 1400 North Logan, UT 84341 v: 435-752-2941 f: 435-753-5681 e: terrie@cc.usu.edu http://www.pprl.usu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:22:27 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Laboratory Closeout Checklists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-10-19 16:59:52 EDT, you write: << David, I am also interested in any close out lists that you may come across. I do not have a high level of confidence in the one currently used at my facility and would be interested in what others are doing. >> If someone does have find a good one to share with the group perhaps they would allow LSW to post it on the web site with the other free documents. ... Jim ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:12:49 +0300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Poulose, John V" Subject: Re: thermometers Comments: cc: "Poulose, P" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" HI NACHO's, LIG thermometers (like Mercury type) would soon turn out to be antiques for industry & technology, but for pure science, might last for a decade or less. This is my good guess based on the understanding of both worlds. I used to learn arithmetic operation tables in the elementary, but my children never heard about! Wonder when paper & pencil become things of past! Platinum Resistance Thermometers & Thermocouples have become integral part of all kinds of measuring equipment these days. We hardly see liquid-in-glass thermometers in our lab. Mercury level has been replaced with solid digits, having 4 decimals precision. If we have no use in real life, why not go electronic? Maybe, in future, we can include LIG thermometers in the Science teaching curriculum, in the evolution of temperature measurement devices. My humble response. John Poulos/ Lab Scientist/ Arabian American Oil Company/ Saudi Arabia E: poulosvj@aramco.com.sa -----Original Message----- From: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List [mailto:LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu] On Behalf Of Tayman, Tammy Sent: 19 October 1999 15:42 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: thermometers As a member of academia, I'm wondering if we would be doing the students a disservice if we went totally over to digital thermometers. If they never have to deal with a glass thermometer (mercury or not), and can simply read the numbers off of the display, would we not run into the same problem we have with digital clocks vs. clocks with hands? For those of you in industry, etc.: Do you use digital thermometers? Do you use traditional thermometers? What is your feeling regarding a wave of graduates who perhaps cannot read traditional thermometers? I know there are those out there who think I am overreacting, but in light of the current lack of basic common sense in college freshmen and sophmores, I really have to wonder... Tammy Tayman > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Edmiston [mailto:edmiston@bluffton.edu] > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 5:22 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: thermometers > > > In addition to the points Ben Greene mentions, students make fewer > reading errors. I suppose faculty/staff would make fewer errors also. > > We have found that these electronic thermometers hold their > calibration > very well. > > They are more expensive in the beginning, but we think they are more > economical in the long run. So far we have only broken one, and it > surprised us, so perhaps I should describe it: > > We wondered if we could use these in a sand bath or stuck into an > aluminum-block heat distributor on a hot plate. The thermometer > top-end was 150 C, which we did not intend to exceed, but we > did exceed > because the block heated up quickly. We're not sure how hot it went, > perhaps 200 C. We assumed the display would indicate some over-range > condition then work again once the temperature came down. > However, the > thermometer never recovered. We might officially diagnose the problem > some day (we kept it) but I am pretty sure I know what happened... the > thermistor got "fried." > > We purchased some bimetallic dial thermometers for use in heat blocks > and sand baths and they work quite well. > > We have also worried that the plastic housing for the > electronics might > get marred by solvent vapors. We do use these in the hood for organic > labs. However, we have not had any of this type of damage. > That might > be a combination both of the long stainless-steel stem coupled with > being in a fume hood whenever solvents are used. > > By the way, with the long stems and the electronics at the top, these > are top heavy and can tip over a small beaker. But that was also true > of the glass thermometers. > > > Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: > 419-358-3270 > Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: > 419-358-3323 > Chairman, Science Department E-Mail > edmiston@bluffton.edu > Bluffton College > 280 West College Avenue > Bluffton, OH 45817 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greene, Ben [SMTP:bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV] > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 4:41 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: thermometers > > Well, even the mercury and non-mercury containing thermometers need to > be > periodically checked for calibration. The things I dislike the most > about > glass mercury thermometers are when you drop them they break and you > have a > mercury spill and a glass mess, and when someone jams one through an > un-lubricated rubber stopper and skewers their hand you have an injury > and > both a blood and a mercury spill and a glass mess to clean up. At > least > with the alcohol thermometers there's no mercury, but the injury and > glass > mess potentials are still there. Thermal transducers do have some > advantages from this point. In fact, if you really need to > monitor the > temperature you can hook a data logger to one. > > Ben > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:00:24 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Robert Burns Subject: Re: thermometers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" In our industrial R&D lab, we still use nothing but lig. In the long term, you're probably right, but I think it'll take a long time. We still use Hg manometers for vacuum measurement too. Mercury can be used safely, if people are trained in proper clean up and disposal techniques. I hope the current students are, which was the point of this thread in the first place. "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 Fax 815 333 4805 -----Original Message----- From: Poulose, John V [mailto:POULOSVJ@ARAMCO.COM.SA] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 6:13 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: thermometers HI NACHO's, LIG thermometers (like Mercury type) would soon turn out to be antiques for industry & technology, but for pure science, might last for a decade or less. This is my good guess based on the understanding of both worlds. I used to learn arithmetic operation tables in the elementary, but my children never heard about! Wonder when paper & pencil become things of past! Platinum Resistance Thermometers & Thermocouples have become integral part of all kinds of measuring equipment these days. We hardly see liquid-in-glass thermometers in our lab. Mercury level has been replaced with solid digits, having 4 decimals precision. If we have no use in real life, why not go electronic? Maybe, in future, we can include LIG thermometers in the Science teaching curriculum, in the evolution of temperature measurement devices. My humble response. John Poulos/ Lab Scientist/ Arabian American Oil Company/ Saudi Arabia E: poulosvj@aramco.com.sa -----Original Message----- From: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List [mailto:LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu] On Behalf Of Tayman, Tammy Sent: 19 October 1999 15:42 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: thermometers As a member of academia, I'm wondering if we would be doing the students a disservice if we went totally over to digital thermometers. If they never have to deal with a glass thermometer (mercury or not), and can simply read the numbers off of the display, would we not run into the same problem we have with digital clocks vs. clocks with hands? For those of you in industry, etc.: Do you use digital thermometers? Do you use traditional thermometers? What is your feeling regarding a wave of graduates who perhaps cannot read traditional thermometers? I know there are those out there who think I am overreacting, but in light of the current lack of basic common sense in college freshmen and sophmores, I really have to wonder... Tammy Tayman > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Edmiston [mailto:edmiston@bluffton.edu] > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 5:22 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: thermometers > > > In addition to the points Ben Greene mentions, students make fewer > reading errors. I suppose faculty/staff would make fewer errors also. > > We have found that these electronic thermometers hold their > calibration > very well. > > They are more expensive in the beginning, but we think they are more > economical in the long run. So far we have only broken one, and it > surprised us, so perhaps I should describe it: > > We wondered if we could use these in a sand bath or stuck into an > aluminum-block heat distributor on a hot plate. The thermometer > top-end was 150 C, which we did not intend to exceed, but we > did exceed > because the block heated up quickly. We're not sure how hot it went, > perhaps 200 C. We assumed the display would indicate some over-range > condition then work again once the temperature came down. > However, the > thermometer never recovered. We might officially diagnose the problem > some day (we kept it) but I am pretty sure I know what happened... the > thermistor got "fried." > > We purchased some bimetallic dial thermometers for use in heat blocks > and sand baths and they work quite well. > > We have also worried that the plastic housing for the > electronics might > get marred by solvent vapors. We do use these in the hood for organic > labs. However, we have not had any of this type of damage. > That might > be a combination both of the long stainless-steel stem coupled with > being in a fume hood whenever solvents are used. > > By the way, with the long stems and the electronics at the top, these > are top heavy and can tip over a small beaker. But that was also true > of the glass thermometers. > > > Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: > 419-358-3270 > Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: > 419-358-3323 > Chairman, Science Department E-Mail > edmiston@bluffton.edu > Bluffton College > 280 West College Avenue > Bluffton, OH 45817 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greene, Ben [SMTP:bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV] > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 4:41 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: thermometers > > Well, even the mercury and non-mercury containing thermometers need to > be > periodically checked for calibration. The things I dislike the most > about > glass mercury thermometers are when you drop them they break and you > have a > mercury spill and a glass mess, and when someone jams one through an > un-lubricated rubber stopper and skewers their hand you have an injury > and > both a blood and a mercury spill and a glass mess to clean up. At > least > with the alcohol thermometers there's no mercury, but the injury and > glass > mess potentials are still there. Thermal transducers do have some > advantages from this point. In fact, if you really need to > monitor the > temperature you can hook a data logger to one. > > Ben > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:19:40 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Naomi Kelly Subject: Re: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991019144039.00add320@mail.drexel.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yes, they are. At 02:41 PM 10/19/99 -0700, you wrote: >I thought that research laboratories were exempt from SARA Title III >reporting, does any one know for sure? > >At 11:28 AM 10/19/99 -0400, Michael Edmiston wrote: >>Geesh! Is this correct? Please let us know what you find. >> >>I am well aware that the SARA 313 reporting requirements (TRI) require >>industries to report "releases" that are not actual releases. For >>example, material sent to an off-site incinerator must be included as a >>TRI "release" for that industry even though the material was not >>released into the environment at that industrial site, nor was it >>released to the environment at all (in the form of the listed >>chemical). >> >>For this type of reason I always have viewed the TRI as worthless in >>terms of its initial goal of informing citizens about the types and >>quantities of toxic chemicals being emitted into the environment by >>their local industries. >> >>However, I was not aware that recycled material had to be listed as a >>TRI release. What incentive does that give for an industry to recycle >>stuff if they still get the "black-eye" of listing recycled material as >>a "release?" >> >>I already think SARA 313 needs fixed. If this recycling example is >>correct, then TRI reporting guidelines need fixed worse than I thought >>they did. >> >>Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: 419-358-3270 >>Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: 419-358-3323 >>Chairman, Science Department E-Mail >>edmiston@bluffton.edu >>Bluffton College >>280 West College Avenue >>Bluffton, OH 45817 >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Norm Englbrecht [SMTP:norm.englbrecht@VARN.COM] >>Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 10:32 AM >>To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >>Subject: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent >> >> Hi fellow NACHO, >> >> This question is a bit out of the realm of lab safety but because >>we >> have such a rich mix of list members I hope someone can give me an >> answer. >> >> About a year ago I read a report about a court case regarding >>Toxic >> Release Inventory reports (TRI) of recycled solvent; I believe the >> solvent was benzene. I think the case was Hoechest vs. US EPA. >> The >> issue litigated was whether redistilled solvent that was reused or >> recycled in a process was to be a reportable quantity only once or >> each time it was distilled and recycled. I think the chemical >>company >> lost and the recycled solvent had to be reported on each use. >> >> Can anyone direct me to a copy of this case? >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Norm Englbrecht, CHMM ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:50:25 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jennifer Minogue Subject: Re: thermometers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT After one broken mercury thermometer too many in veterinary hospital, mercury thermometers were banned and now only digital ones are allowed. Students must buy their own thermometers and learn to take care of them. Presumably,they are accurate enough for clinical work. However, when I visit my own vet in town, he still uses a mercury one (cost?). The problem came to a head when a thermometer was broken in a horse stall. Try to clean up mercury in a pile of hay and you-know-what (they removed the horse). Nuff said. Jennifer E. Minogue, B.S., M.S.P.H. Hazardous Materials Safety Officer Environmental Health and Safety University of Guelph Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1 Canada 519-824-4120 X3190 Fax 519-824-0364 e-Mail jennifer@hr.admin.uoguelph.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:36:25 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jennifer Bedell Subject: hexa, hepta and octadecyl cyanides? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I haven't been able to find any information on these compounds: hexadecyl cyanide, heptadecyl cyanide, nonadecane nitrile (I think this is also called octadecyl cyanide), polmitonitrile. These chemicals are in bottles with generic labels and I'd like to find out the proper disposal for them. Thanks! Jennifer Bedell Center for Environmental Health and Safety Southern Illinois University jbedell@cehs.siu.edu http://www.cehs.siu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:11:46 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Robert Burns Subject: Re: hex, hepta and octadecyl cyanides? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Nitrile is another term for organic cyanides. Try to search for them as nitriles, rather than cyanides. Palmitonitrile is the same as hexadecyl- C16 chain with a CN on the end. Try to talk to the people who bought them; failing that, another organic chemist. I have worked with hexa- and octadecyl nitriles at a previous employer. They make them in hundreds of thousands of pounds a day in a continuous process. If you'd like the name, send me a private email. I'd rather not send it to everyone. Incidentally, they are in IL also!! My recollection is that they are not particularly hazardous because of the long organic chain- not water soluble. "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 Fax 815 333 4805 -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Bedell [mailto:jbedell@CEHS.SIU.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 13:36 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: hexa, hepta and octadecyl cyanides? I haven't been able to find any information on these compounds: hexadecyl cyanide, heptadecyl cyanide, nonadecane nitrile (I think this is also called octadecyl cyanide), polmitonitrile. These chemicals are in bottles with generic labels and I'd like to find out the proper disposal for them. Thanks! Jennifer Bedell Center for Environmental Health and Safety Southern Illinois University jbedell@cehs.siu.edu http://www.cehs.siu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:00:37 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Alain Savard Subject: Re: hexa, hepta and octadecyl cyanides? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The other cyanides should have similar properties... Good luck for the rest. Alain Savard, B.Sc. Chemical Process Analyst CAE Electronics Ltd. e-mail: alainsa@cae.ca -----Original Message----- I haven't been able to find any information on these compounds: hexadecyl cyanide, heptadecyl cyanide, (see Fisher, Stearonitrile) http://search.be.acros.com/_GKJHQIMTHDHPJOGSPDRUMPGKIPKXHVQDRNOKGYJP_?for=ch emexper&search_type=1&search=C18H35N&bl=25&found=1 nonadecane nitrile (I think this is also called octadecyl cyanide), polmitonitrile. These chemicals are in bottles with generic labels and I'd like to find out the proper disposal for them. Thanks! Jennifer Bedell Center for Environmental Health and Safety Southern Illinois University jbedell@cehs.siu.edu http://www.cehs.siu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:12:22 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Rebecca Levins, RSR Corporation" Subject: Re: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BF1B18.AB8D6A40" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BF1B18.AB8D6A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At first glance, if it is a closed loop system, I would count it as part = of the process. It would depend on the process and if it really were = closed loop. I would search the regs and guidance closely before I did = it, but I am pretty sure it could be defined that way. We have a = somewhat similar system that we define as such and have survived a New = York state inspection of our TRI Form Rs. The main thing would be = logically documenting what you are doing and why. Best regards, Rebecca Levins Environmental, Health & Safety Compliance Specialist RSR Corporation Dallas, Texas RSRrdl@onramp.net (214) 583-0245 -----Original Message----- From: Alain Savard [SMTP:alainsa@CAE.CA] Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 1:49 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: TRI Reports and Recycled Solvent I don't usually answer to this kind of e-mail dealing with US = regulations, but... How does this handle closed loop system, such as dry cleaning equipment = that does recycle it's own solvant internally? Can a recycling process be defined as an extended process loop? Just one curious canadian, Alain Savard, B.Sc. Chemical Process Analyst e-mail: alainsa@cae.ca -----Original Message----- If you send your waste off site for recycling Section 6.2 has 'transfers = to other off-site locations'. For on site recycling, Section 7a has = 'on-site waste treatment methods and efficiency'. Then you break it down on = section 8 as recycled, treated or released. Remember if it is a waste, then = whatever you do with it is reported on the Form R. You are right, it does not encourage recycling. They are trying to = encourage 'source reduction' but they are doing it at the expense of recycling. Rebecca Levins ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:32:11 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Phil Stevens Subject: WebMolecules Update Oct 99 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A new version of the award-winning site: ** WebMolecules.com ** is now available at: http://www.webmolecules.com New Features: -------------------------------------------------------------- - Over 50,000 CAS-indexed molecular models have been added. Search these by CAS number http://www.webmolecules.com/search.shtml - Support for PDB-type files has been added. (Chime plug-in required for access) PDB files located in Category 23.0 - Proteins PDB files located in Category 18.0 - Nucleic Acids - New User Uploads section. See Category 28.0 - Mirror sites for the Chime plug-in have been added. See: http://www.webmolecules.com/chimeint.shtml Other Recent Upgrades and New Features -------------------------------------------------------------- - 100's of large structures have been added. For example: DNA, RNA, C180, C240, cyclodextrin, vitamin B12, large nanotech models, crystals, etc. - Support for both Chime and VRML plug-ins - For performance reasons, large molecules (>150 atoms) are available for the Chime viewer only. - Mirror sites for the VRML plug-ins have been added. See: http://www.webmolecules.com/vrmlint.shtml - Resizable viewing window - Support for uploads and model requests - Improved support for bookmarks - 3D coordinate downloads -------------------------------------------------------------- WebMolecules.com is a FREE, sponsor-supported site. Designed for the 3D visualization of molecules, it contains over 50,000 molecular structures in 3D. Thousands of common molecules are organized into 30+ categories. Included are molecules of commercial value, educational importance, and of topical interest. It is indexed by formula and category and is also fully searchable. Included are structures such as: - Top 50 pollutants - Top 100 commercial chemicals - Top 200 pharmaceuticals - Common valence geometries - Common orbital configurations WebMolecules.com is great for student and classroom use. Enjoy. -- Phil Stevens http://www.webmolecules.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:41:35 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ellen Burns Subject: the buddy system MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Does anyone know of a good "buddy system" to make sure two or more people are always working in a laboratory at a small college? Also, has anyone heard of using hand-held radios as part of such a system? thanks eeb Ellen E. Burns Assistant Professor of Chemistry (330)-263-2610 The College of Wooster fax (330) 263-2386 943 College Avenue Wooster OH 44691-2363 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:31:23 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike Dougherty Subject: Re: the buddy system MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Radios do not work. I have found (the hard way) radios are only good when the person is able to use them. When a person goes down they also lose the use of the radio. Also people take them off as they complain they get heavy, females do not like them as they "pull" down on clothing, especially the light materials used in todays clothing. The best system is the buddy system. When high risk procedures are being done, a "buddy" must be in the area in direct observation of the examiner and vice versa. The buddy should have PPE required and be trained in its use and how to drag a person out of the area and give CPR and call for help. For other procedures a supervisor or designated person must make routine visits to the lab to ensure all is ok. You may want to investigate the Man Down Alarms used by various Fire Brigades. They alarm when a person is motionless or horizontal for a short time period. Contact your local Fire Brigade to see if they have them and how effective they are. With these they must be used and turned on when the person is working. The person must move once in a while to prevent the alarm from activating. This can be a nuisance. Hope this helps. MD SAFETY SERVICES Michael N. Dougherty, C.R.S.P. Health - Safety - Compensation Consulting, Training & Management Phone: (519) 767-6785 Pager: (519) 241-6420 Fax: (519) 767-9183 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:12:24 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mark Mccleave Subject: Re: References to Commercial Products and Services MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim, How do I get out of the LABSAFETY LIST SERVE. MARK ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:25:57 +0000 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Barb Moore Subject: Re: the buddy system In-Reply-To: <01bf1bc0$2f6ce640$44f205d1@win95> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This "buddy system" has caused heated conversation in our department. I have one professor in particular who says the following (the following was actually typed by the nonbeliever) In graduate schools, he believes that graduate students will often work by themselves. A buddy system may be the stated policy but in actual fact students do not coordinate their evening activities and the University is relying on the fact that at night, there is a good chance that more than one lab will have a graduate student working late. But it is very unlikley that they will leave at the same time. Thus someone will be working alone eventually. He also says that a professor would never come back into the lab in the evening to supervise graduate work if only to abide by such a buddy-system policy. If anybody has specific medical school departments that have this policy in place and strictly enforced (with evidence such as citations being issued when the policy is ignored, not just policy statements) he would like to know the name of that department and a contact person so that he can ask them how they enforce it. How do you answer this? ---------- Barbara Moore 330-263-2379 Administrative Manager FAX 330-263-2378 Biology Dept bmoore@acs.wooster.edu College of Wooster http://www.wooster.edu/biology Wooster, OH 44691 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:43:53 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ellen Burns Subject: Re: the buddy system In-Reply-To: <01bf1bc0$2f6ce640$44f205d1@win95> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks for the discussion so far. I thought I would give people a better idea of our plan including the radios If a student is involved in a high-risk proceedure: a properly trained buddy must be in the room and in direct observation of the experimentor. If students are doing low-risk proceedures (use of instrumentation, TLC etc): a buddy must be on the same floor and they must check in on each other every half hour. The radio was to be used for communication between those "checks' or if a student were to go to another instrument room, to inform the other of their location. Also, we have a building monitor who would monitor the radio communications--ask for periodic "check ins" and keep track of where everyone is. What do you think of something like this? thanks ellen Ellen E. Burns Assistant Professor of Chemistry (330)-263-2610 The College of Wooster fax (330) 263-2386 943 College Avenue Wooster OH 44691-2363 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:37:28 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Mark A. Travis" Subject: Mercury Orange Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We (Radiation, Safety and Environmental Services) have been asked to assists a researcher with a SOP for an assay that involves the utilization of Mercury Orange (SIGMA product number M7750). This compound is known by various other chemical names, but Mercury Orange appears to be the more common term used for it. We have NOT been unable to locate any significant information from internet searches or in talking directly to SIGMA about this compound. Can anyone point me to a good reference for the safe handling of Mercury Orange? The assay itself involves making up a solution of Mercury Orange (in a hood) and then filling a reservoir on a robotics system that then dispenses 150 uL of Mercury Orange into each well of a 96 well plate. Currently the robotics is NOT contained within a chemical fume hood. The big dilemma for us is should the robotics system be housed within some type of fume hood. Any information would be appreciated. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:00:44 -0400 Reply-To: "edmiston@bluffton.edu" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Edmiston Organization: Bluffton College Subject: Re: the buddy system MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would guess that every safety book, or chemical hygiene plan, or safety seminar that I have read/attended probably listed "don't work alone" as either the first or second rule. (If it was second, then "don't eat in lab" was number first.) Yet, academic laboratories are notorious for abusing this rule. My advice is: "wake up and smell the coffee." My experience is that industrial labs and government labs follow this rule to the letter. How can you put this rule right at the top of your CHP and then not follow it? How can you not put it right at the top of your CHP when virtually everyone tells you to put it there? (The operational word here would be "prudent.") Colleges and universities simply have to assure a buddy or supervisor is present, or evening/weekend research must stop. It's that simple. Even 21 years ago when I worked at Los Alamos National Lab, that was the rule. Guards made routine checks (every couple hours). That was not sufficient for safety, but it was sufficient to detect safety violations. Hence, when the guard came, it was okay if I was in my office doing paper work... but I had better not be in the lab doing experiments unless there were other people around. Otherwise, I would get cited for a safety violation. Repeat citations could result in dismissal. I was also present (at Los Alamos, in the same building, about 200 feet away) when two men died from asphyxiation upon entering the tank of a Van de Graaff generator before sufficient air had entered the chamber. They were using the buddy system. One guy went in. When he collapsed, the 2nd guy ignored all the safety advice and went in to rescue the first guy (without an air tank). He also collapsed. Even though I was next door, I was unaware any of this was going on until the third person on the scene did the right thing and called for the rescue team. The rescue team arrived too late. I mention this for two reasons: (1) The buddy system does not work if the buddy does not do the right thing (or gets incapacitated by the same accident), (2) People in the lab next door are of no value if there is no indication that anything is wrong. I could have reacted to an explosion, or to a shout for help (maybe... if I would have heard it). But the person in the lab next door cannot respond in time if someone simply collapses from asphyxiation or toxic fumes. Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: 419-358-3270 Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: 419-358-3323 Chairman, Science Department E-Mail edmiston@bluffton.edu Bluffton College 280 West College Avenue Bluffton, OH 45817 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:20:14 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Warren C. Pinches" Subject: Re: the buddy system Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This is doubtless a simpleminded suggestion, but has anyone tried locking the labs after hours? Security would only unlock the lab if a person had authorization and a buddy. It would certainly inconvenience some people -- i.e., require them to plan ahead -- but it would deal with the practical, if not the political, problem. In any event I would think that labs and their contents need to be secured against unauthorized entry when not in use. Barb Moore on 10/21/99 05:25:57 AM Please respond to LABSAFETY-L Discussion List To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU cc: (bcc: Warren Pinches) Subject: Re: the buddy system This "buddy system" has caused heated conversation in our department. I have one professor in particular who says the following (the following was actually typed by the nonbeliever) In graduate schools, he believes that graduate students will often work by themselves. A buddy system may be the stated policy but in actual fact students do not coordinate their evening activities and the University is relying on the fact that at night, there is a good chance that more than one lab will have a graduate student working late. But it is very unlikley that they will leave at the same time. Thus someone will be working alone eventually. He also says that a professor would never come back into the lab in the evening to supervise graduate work if only to abide by such a buddy-system policy. If anybody has specific medical school departments that have this policy in place and strictly enforced (with evidence such as citations being issued when the policy is ignored, not just policy statements) he would like to know the name of that department and a contact person so that he can ask them how they enforce it. How do you answer this? ---------- Barbara Moore 330-263-2379 Administrative Manager FAX 330-263-2378 Biology Dept bmoore@acs.wooster.edu College of Wooster http://www.wooster.edu/biology Wooster, OH 44691 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:51:21 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Don Abramowitz Subject: Re: Mercury Orange In-Reply-To: <001CD991.C22094@am.pnu.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" assist a researcher with a SOP for an assay that involves the > utilization of Mercury Orange (SIGMA product number M7750). This > compound is known by various other chemical names, but Mercury Orange > appears to be the more common term used for it. Mark, We might be of more assistance if you provided the other chemical names for it. To me, the criteria for a hood would be: Does the compound have a vapor pressure (does it sublilme or otherwise release any vapor form of mercury)? Several mercury compounds sublime, so this would be a key factor to research. Is there potential for the aerosolization of the solution under normal or upset conditions? If either of the above is a yes, a hood is in order. Also, given the issues of surface contamination and skin contact, some sort of enclosure/containment would still be advised (even if inhalation exposure could be ruled out) to maintain control of the material. Once the 96 wells of the well plate are filled, what happens to the plates? Look at exposure through all phases of the process, including disposal and clean-up of equipment. If the solution is allowed to dry at any point, you have the potential for dust release. No references - just ideas. Don ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:07:07 -0400 Reply-To: "edmiston@bluffton.edu" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Edmiston Organization: Bluffton College Subject: Re: the buddy system MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Warren Pinches says: "This is doubtless a simpleminded suggestion, but has anyone tried locking the labs after hours? Security would only unlock the lab if a person had authorization and a buddy. It would certainly inconvenience some people- i.e., require them to plan ahead-but it would deal with the practical, if not the political, problem. In any event I would think that labs and their contents need to be secured against unauthorized entry when not in use." That is what we do here. Labs are locked when professors go home for supper. They remain locked in the evening and on weekends unless a professor arranges to let a student in and be there with the student. However, we still have one problem... the professor who wants to work alone. We're struggling trying to define what "working in lab alone" means. If a professor enters the lab area at night to get out the equipment and chemicals for tomorrow's lab, is that doing lab work alone? Most would say no. But what if this involves making some solutions? That becomes more difficult. And of course one asks... solutions of what? But there is little debate about what one would typically call "research" using "hazardous materials." Professors are not allowed to do scientific research alone if it involves generally acknowledged hazardous materials. A biology professor cannot work alone to prepare and run polyacrylamide electrophoresis. However, a biology professor can use a microscope alone. Making that kind of determination is certainly tough; and sometimes doesn't seem fair. For example, it doesn't seem fair, to some, that our theoretical chemist can work at night running calculations on the computer and enhancing his career, but the biochemist is not permitted to do so, without a buddy. I have no satisfactory answer for that. It's just the way it is. Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: 419-358-3270 Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: 419-358-3323 Chairman, Science Department E-Mail edmiston@bluffton.edu Bluffton College 280 West College Avenue Bluffton, OH 45817 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:51:51 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Amy Gregory Subject: Re: the buddy system In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This procedure sounds very complex. I assume you have students who need to work in the labs on a daily basis. Since we only teach first and second year students, this hasn't been a terribly serious problem. However, this issue has come up more than once. We have first year students working on independant projects during Spring quarter. Many of these projects require them to be in the labs for long periods of time at very early and late hours. I have instituted a system to prevent students working alone during these times. The student must sign-up for a specific time that they will need to be in the lab. Then, one of the professors or myself will be here during that time period. Furthermore, we encourage them to bring a lab partner or another buddy. On the other hand, I have not been able to enforce a policy for faculty or staff working alone. To be honest, I break this rule more than anyone. Before I was lab manager, faculty would come in after hours or on Saturday to prep their labs (especially part-time faculty). Now, I am here after hours preping everyone's labs. But, I do tell security and the faculty office down the hall that I am here. Also, I leave the lab door open. Fortunately, this year, I have an assistant who helps me prep the labs so that I no longer have to be here after hours. Its definitely difficult to enforce much of anything in academia, but "liability" seems to be a key word for act