========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 22:25:08 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Ahler Subject: Other Scarey Stories MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Other" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New Year Greetings to All, The "Scarey Story" thread that was weaving recently reminded me of a similar story I took part in a few years ago. In the time before CHO's I and my supervisor were doing that kind of work in and for the Chemistry Department here. It was a vacuum we abhorred. In addition, from time to time the Chemistry Department would get a call from outside the campus asking for lab safety advice. Callers hoped the University's Chemistry Department might know which end is up. So we would do a bit of "pro bono" advising to local hospitals and high schools (mostly) in the area of safe chemical handling and management and general lab safety. ( I really am trying to abbreviate here.) One day a young man called about a situation he had with the contents of a business his recently deceased pharmacist-father had left behind. A garage floor full of lab chemicals we saw. He asked do we want? We said no. Thanks. But here is the name and number of a haz waste hauler you can deal with. Fine. Months later, during another "pro bono" San Luis Obispo High School, we were asked to look at one more store room at the end of the hall. There, still in boxes, was the answer to how the young pharmacy heir had solved his excess chemical problem. I think I did a credible job of keeping a straight face. The high school eventually solved their excess chemical problem ( "Do we want? No. Thanks.) through a county schools financed chemical cleanup - many science departments at many schools. I think an earlier writer to this list ( Mr. Hawkins from Acorn High School) mentioned such a program. I think it's a good idea ( County-wide / State-wide Hazardous waste pickup for K-12 schools). Most High Schools I know of don't have the resources to finance such things independently. Anecdotes like this and others I have seen on this list reinforce my phobia for Gift Chemicals. Almost every chemical gift I have seen has been a chemical dump - complete with unlabeled bottles and bottles actually labeled "unknown". I have other interesting Chemical Stories ( some Scarey) I am saving for another time. This message is long enough already. Maybe I'll do this from time to time. Thanks for listening. Michael Ahler, CHO Risk Management Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, California ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 17:42:42 EST Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: NACHO Meeting in Hartford Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi NACHO Members, Members interested in getting together for an informal dinner meeting in conjunction with the NEW SAFETY (Winter Safety 99) meeting this coming week at Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut should gather at the Alumni Lounge in the Mather Campus Center at between 5:30 and 6:00 PM. We can decide where to go for dinner and carpool from there. So far, I've received about six rsvps. I'll be staying at the Wellesley Inn on Roberts Street in East Hartford starting tomorrow night. Cell Phone # 508-574-6264 .... jim ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 08:05:59 EST Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: stefan Subject: Re: NACHO Meeting in Hartford In-Reply-To: <89041264.368ff262@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Members interested in getting together for an informal dinner meeting in >conjunction with the NEW SAFETY (Winter Safety 99) meeting this coming week at >Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut should gather at the Alumni Lounge in >the Mather Campus Center at between 5:30 and 6:00 PM. We can decide where to >go for dinner and carpool from there. > ******** What day- Wednesday? ****************** - Stefan Wawzyniecki UConn > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 08:50:30 EST Reply-To: "Karcz-ENV, Timothy" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Karcz-ENV, Timothy" Subject: Re: Formaldehyde substitute MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="915458959-MIME-Part-Dividor" --915458959-MIME-Part-Dividor Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline See attached message. --915458959-MIME-Part-Dividor Content-type: application/octet-stream; name="FORMALD2.FIX" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="FORMALD2.FIX" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 --915458959-MIME-Part-Dividor-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 10:16:37 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Re: Salary Range Info Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Nadine asked: >>> What I'm looking for are salary ranges for Chemical Hygiene Officer (or Environmental Health & Safety Specialist, etc.) positions at private schools comparable to ours -- with an enrollment of 1500-2500 students, and an annual budget of $14.7-30.1 million. ****** Here at UNE, our Environmental Health and Safety Officer position starts at 30k. Chemical Hygiene Officers are paid an add on salary of 3k per year in addition to their full time jobs. Hope this helps, Janeen. ***************** Janeen Lapierre, CHO College of Osteopathic Medicine University of New England 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446 Opinions are mine and not those of UNE. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 10:27:49 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Re: Formaldehyde substitute Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We have been trying to find an alternative for cadaver preservation in our gross anatomy lab. I have had several conversations with different schools and this seems to be a real problem. I would welcome more info on your product and would be interested in furthering this cause. If I can be of assistance give me a call. Janeen. ***************** Janeen Lapierre, CHO College of Osteopathic Medicine University of New England 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446 Opinions are mine and not those of UNE. >>> Russ Phifer - 12/29/98 10:23 AM >>> Can anyone give me an idea as to the current market for non-formaldehyde biological/histological fixatives and preservatives? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 09:37:58 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Donald E. Clark, Ph.D." Subject: Something to Consider-Forwarded Comments: To: safety@list.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Anyone interested in giving a much needed helping hand to these unfortunate souls? dec >Subject: Something to Consider-Forwarded > >> >>For those of you with any compassion, you will most certainly want to >>read AND RESPOND to the message below, especially during this holiday >>season. >>Sincerely, >>Mark English >>MEMD@JUNO.COM >> >>Friends: >> >>Please consider donating a portion of your tithe to a new and critical >>program, >> "Adopt A Player" >> >>With the New Year approaching, please look into your heart to >>help those in need. Hundreds of National Basketball Association >>basketball players in our very own country are living at or just below >>the seven-figure salary level (a national disgrace!). 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Put the photo on your refrigerator to remind you >>of other peoples' suffering. >> >>HOW WILL HE KNOW I'M HELPING? >> >>Your basketball player will be told that he has a SPECIAL FRIEND who >>just wants to help in a time of need. Although the player won't know >>your name, he will be able to make collect calls to your home via a >>special operator just in case additional funds are needed for >>unexpected expenses. >> >>YES, I WANT TO HELP! >> >>I would like to sponsor a striking NBA basketball player. My >>preference is checked below: >> >>[ ] Starter >>[ ] Reserve >>[ ] Star (Higher cost) >>[ ] Superstar (Much higher cost) >>[ ] Entire team (Please call our 900 number to ask for the cost of a >> specific team [Cheerleaders not included.]) >>[ ] I'll sponsor a player most in need. Please select one for me. >> >>Please charge the account listed below $694.50 per day for a reserve >>player or starter for the duration of the strike. Please send me a >>picture of the player I have sponsored, along with a team logo and my >>very own NBA Players Association Relief Fund badge to wear proudly on my >>lapel. >> >>Your Name: _______________________ >>Telephone Number: _______________________ >>Account Number: _______________________ Exp.Date:_______ >>[ ] MasterCard [ ] Visa [ ] American Express [ ] Discover >>Signature: _______________________ >> >>Mail completed form to NBA Players Association or call >>1-900-2MUCH now to enroll by phone. >> >>Note: Sponsors are NOT permitted to contact the player they have >>sponsored, either in person or by other means including, but not >>limited to, telephone calls, letters, e-mail, or third parties. Keep >>in mind that the basketball player you have sponsored will be much too >>busy enjoying his free time, thanks to your generous donations. >> >>Contributions are not tax-deductible. >> >> >> >>--------- End forwarded message ---------- >> >>___________________________________________________________________ >>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >> >> >> Donald E. Clark, PhD Chemical and Biological Safety Officer Environmental Health and Safety Department Texas A&M University College Station, TX 77843-4472 Phone (409)845-2132 FAX (409)845-1348 E-mail declark-sh@tamu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 09:59:41 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Re: Something to Consider-Forwarded In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990104093758.006abb00@ehsd.tamu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sign me up as the first kill-joy. I get enough unsolicited e-mail jokes (generally multiple times) that I'm not really looking for any from the list. If I'm in the minority here I'll just crawl back into my hole and kick a dog or two. Cheers, JNR Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS College of Natural Sciences G2500 W.C. Hogg Building University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712-1199 (512) 471-6176 (O) (512) 471-4998 (F) jrubin@mail.utexas.edu "The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise specified." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:12:34 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: Something to Consider-Forwarded MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like a few jokes. I vote to keep them. I can see that everyone may not, though. "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D Specialty Chemicals Division RUETGERS Organics Corporation 201 Struble Road State College, PA 16801 phone 814-231-9214 fax 814-238-1567 email rburns@bigfoot.com -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Rubin To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 10:46 Subject: Re: Something to Consider-Forwarded >Sign me up as the first kill-joy. I get enough unsolicited e-mail jokes >(generally multiple times) that I'm not really looking for any from the >list. If I'm in the minority here I'll just crawl back into my hole and >kick a dog or two. > >Cheers, > >JNR > > >Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS >College of Natural Sciences G2500 >W.C. Hogg Building >University of Texas at Austin >Austin, TX 78712-1199 >(512) 471-6176 (O) >(512) 471-4998 (F) >jrubin@mail.utexas.edu > >"The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise >specified." > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 12:33:33 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Madelyn Miller Subject: designated areas for PHSs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings, OK you Chemical Hygiene Officers, here a questions about the Lab. Standard. (no jokes, no advertisements) The Laboratory Standard (29 CFR 1910.1450 (e)(3)(viii), requires that provisions be made for employee protection for work with particularly hazardous substances. These include select carcinogens, reproductive toxins, and acutely toxic substances. It also states that specific consideration shall be given to the establishment of a designated area, the use of containment devices, procedures for safe removal of contaminated waste, and decontamination procedures. How do you deal with designated areas for saccharine. And at what quantity do you restrict mineral oil? The bigger question is how to implement the PHS section of the CHP? Our first step here has been to get the labs to identify their PHSs (no easy feat). We use the definition from Prudent Practices for acute toxic substances: · Chemicals with an oral LD50 in rats <50mg/kg · Chemicals with a skin contact LD50 in rabbits <200mg/kg · Chemicals with an inhalation LC50 in rats <200ppm/per hour Select carcinogens are easier, the "known" human carcinogens but I recently had a person who declared pregnancy. The definition of reproductive toxin is soooo broad. Chemicals which affect the reproductive capabilities including causing chromosomal damage (mutations) and effects on fetuses (teratogenesis). How do you give advice to your labs? ---------------------- Madelyn Miller Chemical Hygiene Officer, CCHO Environmental Health & Safety Carnegie Mellon University mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:08:26 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: designated areas for PHSs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit WE use prudent practices definitions for PHS too. When we work with one of them, we designate the lab and hood where the work is being done and post accordingly. Then monitor that area or the person doing the work. The last one we had was formaldehyde, and that's what we did. The monitor found none at any time, except it picked up acetone as formaldehyde when he washed dishes! "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D Specialty Chemicals Division RUETGERS Organics Corporation 201 Struble Road State College, PA 16801 phone 814-231-9214 fax 814-238-1567 email rburns@bigfoot.com -----Original Message----- From: Madelyn Miller To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 12:35 Subject: designated areas for PHSs >Greetings, >OK you Chemical Hygiene Officers, here a questions about the Lab. >Standard. (no jokes, no advertisements) > >The Laboratory Standard (29 CFR 1910.1450 (e)(3)(viii), requires that >provisions be made for employee protection for work with particularly >hazardous substances. These include select carcinogens, reproductive >toxins, and acutely toxic substances. It also states that specific >consideration shall be given to the establishment of a designated area, >the use of containment devices, procedures for safe removal of >contaminated waste, and decontamination procedures. > >How do you deal with designated areas for saccharine. And at what >quantity do you restrict mineral oil? The bigger question is how to >implement the PHS section of the CHP? > >Our first step here has been to get the labs to identify their PHSs (no >easy feat). We use the definition from Prudent Practices for acute >toxic substances: > · Chemicals with an oral LD50 in rats <50mg/kg >· Chemicals with a skin contact LD50 in rabbits <200mg/kg >· Chemicals with an inhalation LC50 in rats <200ppm/per hour > >Select carcinogens are easier, the "known" human carcinogens but I >recently had a person who declared pregnancy. The definition of >reproductive toxin is soooo broad. Chemicals which affect the >reproductive capabilities including causing chromosomal damage >(mutations) and effects on fetuses (teratogenesis). How do you give >advice to your labs? > >---------------------- >Madelyn Miller >Chemical Hygiene Officer, CCHO >Environmental Health & Safety >Carnegie Mellon University >mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:24:45 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: designated areas for PHSs In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 12:33 PM 1/4/99 -0500, you wrote: >Greetings, >OK you Chemical Hygiene Officers, here a questions about the Lab. >Standard. (no jokes, no advertisements) > >The Laboratory Standard (29 CFR 1910.1450 (e)(3)(viii), requires that >provisions be made for employee protection for work with particularly >hazardous substances. These include select carcinogens, reproductive >toxins, and acutely toxic substances. It also states that specific >consideration shall be given to the establishment of a designated area, >the use of containment devices, procedures for safe removal of >contaminated waste, and decontamination procedures. > >How do you deal with designated areas for saccharine. And at what >quantity do you restrict mineral oil? The bigger question is how to >implement the PHS section of the CHP? > >Our first step here has been to get the labs to identify their PHSs (no >easy feat). We use the definition from Prudent Practices for acute >toxic substances: > · Chemicals with an oral LD50 in rats <50mg/kg >· Chemicals with a skin contact LD50 in rabbits <200mg/kg >· Chemicals with an inhalation LC50 in rats <200ppm/per hour > >Select carcinogens are easier, the "known" human carcinogens but I >recently had a person who declared pregnancy. The definition of >reproductive toxin is soooo broad. Chemicals which affect the >reproductive capabilities including causing chromosomal damage >(mutations) and effects on fetuses (teratogenesis). How do you give >advice to your labs? > >---------------------- >Madelyn Miller >Chemical Hygiene Officer, CCHO >Environmental Health & Safety >Carnegie Mellon University >mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu > Madelyn, Depends on mood of your inspecting OSHA officer, or maybe phases of the moon. But use a dose of common sense. Store the saccharine with the coffee supplies (g). The mineral oil with medicinals (for constipation). I'm reaching here beyond regs I have actually read, but machine oils, mixed in with a whole bunch of other junk, including bacteria, and dispersed in a finally divided spray, is a suspect carcinogen. Since I doubt you have your oil in such a form, ignore it. If a chemist is asked to adhere to foolish interpretations of regs, they will tend to ignore them, and more reasonable regulations also. Mary Ann Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority Past DivCHAS Chair, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:44:58 EST Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: NACHO Meeting in Hartford Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Good Point Stephan ... The day of the NACHO meeting is Wednesday January 6th. Let meet from 5:30 to 6:30 in the Alumni Lounge of Mather Center at Trinity to decide where to go for dinner. ... Jim ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 12:46:34 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Helen B. Gerhard" Subject: Hood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi All: I know that this has been addressed before but what are the airflow requirements for laboratory fume hood? I've got the ACGIH information from my lab safety info received in Jim's class. However, someone has borrowed my 29 CFR so looking up any regulations is difficult at this time. Can someone help? Thanks! Helen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:44:40 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Daniel Hurley Subject: Re: designated areas for PHSs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think the first task is to determine what substances by name are PHS's. Then look at the exposure potentials and then regulate those chemicals which pose a hazard. We have the same problem with things like saccharin and estrogen. For the chemicals that are border line but on a list we are going to work with our chemical safety committee to deregulate those chemical with little hazard potential. Consider not only the health hazard but the exposure potential. Madelyn Miller wrote: > Greetings, > OK you Chemical Hygiene Officers, here a questions about the Lab. > Standard. (no jokes, no advertisements) > > The Laboratory Standard (29 CFR 1910.1450 (e)(3)(viii), requires that > provisions be made for employee protection for work with particularly > hazardous substances. These include select carcinogens, reproductive > toxins, and acutely toxic substances. It also states that specific > consideration shall be given to the establishment of a designated area, > the use of containment devices, procedures for safe removal of > contaminated waste, and decontamination procedures. > > How do you deal with designated areas for saccharine. And at what > quantity do you restrict mineral oil? The bigger question is how to > implement the PHS section of the CHP? > > Our first step here has been to get the labs to identify their PHSs (no > easy feat). We use the definition from Prudent Practices for acute > toxic substances: > · Chemicals with an oral LD50 in rats <50mg/kg > · Chemicals with a skin contact LD50 in rabbits <200mg/kg > · Chemicals with an inhalation LC50 in rats <200ppm/per hour > > Select carcinogens are easier, the "known" human carcinogens but I > recently had a person who declared pregnancy. The definition of > reproductive toxin is soooo broad. Chemicals which affect the > reproductive capabilities including causing chromosomal damage > (mutations) and effects on fetuses (teratogenesis). How do you give > advice to your labs? > > ---------------------- > Madelyn Miller > Chemical Hygiene Officer, CCHO > Environmental Health & Safety > Carnegie Mellon University > mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 02:05:04 -0600 Reply-To: jameel@sage.nrri.umn.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: John Ameel Subject: Re: designated areas for PHSs In-Reply-To: <36911A28.7369E963@wfubmc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I have checked the previous messages for a definition of "PHS" and have been unable to find it. Would someone out there demystify the acronym? Thanks. > I think the first task is to determine what substances by name are PHS's. > Then look at the exposure potentials and then regulate those chemicals...... > John Ameel (jameel@sage.nrri.umn.edu) Phone: 218-720-4313 Natural Resources Research Institute Fax: 218-720-9412 5013 Miller Trunk Highway Duluth, MN 55811 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:02:19 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: Hood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Helen, Prudent Practices says "the recommended face velocity is between 80 and 100 feet per minute" on page 178. Bob "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D Specialty Chemicals Division RUETGERS Organics Corporation 201 Struble Road State College, PA 16801 phone 814-231-9214 fax 814-238-1567 email rburns@bigfoot.com -----Original Message----- From: Helen B. Gerhard To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 14:51 Subject: Hood >Hi All: > >I know that this has been addressed before but what are the airflow >requirements for laboratory fume hood? > >I've got the ACGIH information from my lab safety info received in Jim's >class. However, someone has borrowed my 29 CFR so looking up any >regulations is difficult at this time. Can someone help? > >Thanks! > >Helen > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:16:18 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Madelyn Miller Subject: Re: designated areas for PHSs Comments: To: jameel@sage.nrri.umn.edu In-Reply-To: <199901042001.OAA03497@sage.nrri.umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings, Here is the definition from our Chemical Hygiene Plan. (CHP) 4.2.1 "Particularly Hazard Substances" are defined as belonging to one of three groups. 4.2.1.1 Select carcinogens, acutely toxic chemicals, reproductive toxins and chemicals known to have undesirable biological effects. (Refer to Appendix A for a partial list of select carcinogens and acutely toxic chemicals.) 4.2.1.2 Chemicals for which reliable toxicity information is not available, whether or not they are highly suspect because of their similarity in chemical structure or function to known toxic agents. 4.2.1.3 Chemicals that are explosive or otherwise violently reactive 4.2.2 "Select carcinogens" are any substance which meets at least one of the following criteria1: 4.2.2.1 Regulated by OSHA as a carcinogen or; 4.2.2.2 Listed under the category, "known to be carcinogens," in the Annual Report on Carcinogens published by the National Toxicology Program (NTP) or; 4.2.2.3 Listed under Group 1 ("carcinogenic to humans") by the International Agency for Research on Cancer Monographs (IARC) or; 4.2.2.4 Listed in either Group 2A or 2B by IARC or under the category "reasonably anticipated to be carcinogens " by NTP, and causes statistically significant tumor incidence in experimental animals in accordance with any of the following criteria: · After inhalation exposure of 6-7 hours per day, 5 days per week, for a significant portion of a lifetime to dosages of less than 10 mg/m3 · After repeated skin application of less than 300 mg/kg of body weight, per week or · After oral dosages of less than 50 mg/kg of body weight per day 4.2.3 Acute toxicity is the ability of a chemical to cause a harmful effect after a single exposure. Parameters for assessing the risk of acute toxicity of a chemical are its LD50 and LC50 values. Acutely toxic chemicals meet the following criteria: · Chemicals with an oral LD50 in rats <50mg/kg · Chemicals with a skin contact LD50 in rabbits <200mg/kg · Chemicals with an inhalation LC50 in rats <200ppm/per hour 4.2.3.1 Lethal Dose 50 (LD50 ) is defined as the amount of a chemical that when ingested, injected, or applied to the skin of test animals under controlled laboratory conditions will kill one-half (50%) of the animals2. 4.2.3.2 Lethal Concentration 50 (LC50) is the concentration of the chemical in air that will kill 50% of the test animals exposed to it. 4.2.3.3 Reproductive toxins are chemicals which affect the reproductive capabilities including causing chromosomal damage (mutations) and effects on fetuses (teratogenesis). 4.2.3.4 Designated areas are areas which may be used for work with particularly hazardous substances. A designated area may be the entire laboratory, an area of a laboratory, or a device such as a laboratory hood or glove box. ---------------------- Madelyn Miller Chemical Hygiene Officer, CCHO Environmental Health & Safety Carnegie Mellon University mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:14:02 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Helen B. Gerhard" Subject: Re: Hood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Other than the "non-mandatory" Appendix A to 1910.1450 C.4.b and h where in the CFR regs does it show the need to inspect hoods for proper functioning. I know it's in the regs somewhere but the books aren't on my desk! Thanks! Helen -----Original Message----- From: Helen B. Gerhard Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 12:47 PM To: 'LABSAFETY-L Discussion List' Subject: Hood Hi All: I know that this has been addressed before but what are the airflow requirements for laboratory fume hood? I've got the ACGIH information from my lab safety info received in Jim's class. However, someone has borrowed my 29 CFR so looking up any regulations is difficult at this time. Can someone help? Thanks! Helen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:39:04 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: Hood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1910.1450.d.iii says the CHP shall include " a requirement that fume hoods and .... are functioning properly and specific measures measures that shall be taken to ensure proper and adequate performance of such equipment" IN the Appendix A, there are no specific numbers given. Bob "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D Specialty Chemicals Division RUETGERS Organics Corporation 201 Struble Road State College, PA 16801 phone 814-231-9214 fax 814-238-1567 email rburns@bigfoot.com -----Original Message----- From: Helen B. Gerhard To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 15:18 Subject: Re: Hood >Other than the "non-mandatory" Appendix A to 1910.1450 C.4.b and h where >in the CFR regs does it show the need to inspect hoods for proper >functioning. I know it's in the regs somewhere but the books aren't on my >desk! > >Thanks! > >Helen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Helen B. Gerhard > Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 12:47 PM > To: 'LABSAFETY-L Discussion List' > Subject: Hood > > Hi All: > > I know that this has been addressed before but what are the airflow >requirements for laboratory fume hood? > > I've got the ACGIH information from my lab safety info received in >Jim's class. However, someone has borrowed my 29 CFR so looking up any >regulations is difficult at this time. Can someone help? > > Thanks! > > Helen > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:31:28 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Greene, Ben" Subject: Re: Hood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Appendix A (E)(3)(c) recommends a fume hood "face velocity of at least 60 linear feet per minute" for "Work with Chemicals of Moderate Chronic or High Acute Toxicity". My interpretation only. Ben Greene, Ph.D AlliedSignal Las Cruces, NM 88004 505-524-5761 > ---------- > From: Bob Burns[SMTP:rburns@BIGFOOT.COM] > Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List > Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 1:39 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: Hood > > 1910.1450.d.iii says the CHP shall include " a requirement that fume > hoods > and .... are functioning properly and specific measures measures that > shall > be taken to ensure proper and adequate performance of such equipment" > > IN the Appendix A, there are no specific numbers given. > > Bob > > "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" > > Robert L. Burns > Group Leader, R&D > Specialty Chemicals Division > RUETGERS Organics Corporation > 201 Struble Road > State College, PA 16801 > phone 814-231-9214 > fax 814-238-1567 > email rburns@bigfoot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Helen B. Gerhard > To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu > Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 15:18 > Subject: Re: Hood > > > >Other than the "non-mandatory" Appendix A to 1910.1450 C.4.b and h > where > >in the CFR regs does it show the need to inspect hoods for proper > >functioning. I know it's in the regs somewhere but the books aren't > on my > >desk! > > > >Thanks! > > > >Helen > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Helen B. Gerhard > > Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 12:47 PM > > To: 'LABSAFETY-L Discussion List' > > Subject: Hood > > > > Hi All: > > > > I know that this has been addressed before but what are the > airflow > >requirements for laboratory fume hood? > > > > I've got the ACGIH information from my lab safety info > received in > >Jim's class. However, someone has borrowed my 29 CFR so looking up > any > >regulations is difficult at this time. Can someone help? > > > > Thanks! > > > > Helen > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:55:18 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Nick Pinizzotto Subject: designated areas for PHSs Comments: To: mmiller@ANDREW.CMU.EDU In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think it needs to be a decision that each institution makes for themselves. Nothing the Federal Government does is specific. Therefore we're left to grapple once again on a definition. We here have a list of PHSs, primarily carcinogens which researchers must consult when filing grant forms. It's not an extensive list but it does get the researchers thinking in the right frame of mind about proper containment, proper PPE and Proper Disposal. If they use a chemical not on the list but they judge it in their own minds to be a PHS, they will complete a form as well. I'm sure there'll be lots of discussion on this one but these are just one person's thoughts. Nick Pinizzotto Environmental Health Officer Dept. Environmental Health & Safety Thomas Jefferson University nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu 215-503-5853 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:21:50 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bill Schultz Subject: Re[2]: Hood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is no requirement to inspect chemical fume hoods in the CFRs' that I am aware of. The only citations in the CFRs' concerning chemical fume hoods, that I am aware of, are in the regulations for the 13 carcinogens. These citations do not list a requirement for fume hood certification but require a face velocity of 150 feet per minute (fpm). Chemical fume hood manufactures, the American Chemical Society and Prudent Practices all state clearly that face velocities approaching or exceeding 150 fpm should not be used. The hoods are not designed for velocities this high and they can cause turbulence that can bring the fumes out of the hood and into the operators breathing zone. Prudent Practices has a good recommendation for fume hood face velocity on page 178, Section 8.C.2. Our standard for hood velocity is a paraphrasing of their recommendation. We aim for 100 fpm but allow a variance of 20% either way making 80-120 fpm acceptable. Our frequency of testing or "field certification" is every six months based on Department of Defense regulations. Testing on a six month basis is also the recommendation of The American Chemical Society in "Safety In Academic Chemistry Laboratories", page 48 Fume Hoods. Hope this helps. Bill Schultz USAMRIID ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Hood Author: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List at Internet-Mail Date: 1/4/99 1:14 PM Other than the "non-mandatory" Appendix A to 1910.1450 C.4.b and h where in the CFR regs does it show the need to inspect hoods for proper functioning. I know it's in the regs somewhere but the books aren't on my desk! Thanks! Helen -----Original Message----- From: Helen B. Gerhard Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 12:47 PM To: 'LABSAFETY-L Discussion List' Subject: Hood Hi All: I know that this has been addressed before but what are the airflow requirements for laboratory fume hood? I've got the ACGIH information from my lab safety info received in Jim's class. However, someone has borrowed my 29 CFR so looking up any regulations is difficult at this time. Can someone help? Thanks! Helen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 06:39:52 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Greene, Ben" Subject: Re: Re[2]: Hood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain There is a very useful concensus standard on laboratory ventilation including fume hood performance criteria in "American National Standard for Laboratory Ventilation" ANSI/AIHA Z-9.5 (1992). Section 5.7 (Face velocities) states "Each hood shall maintain an average face velocity of 80-120 fpm with no face velocity measurement more than plus or minus 20% of the average". This is consistent with the Prudent Practices' recommendations stated by Bill Schultz. Ben Greene, Ph.D AlliedSignal Las Cruces, NM 88004 505-524-5761 > ---------- > From: Bill Schultz[SMTP:william_schultz@DETRICK.ARMY.MIL] > Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List > Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 2:21 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re[2]: Hood > > There is no requirement to inspect chemical fume hoods in the CFRs' > that I am > aware of. > > The only citations in the CFRs' concerning chemical fume hoods, that > I am aware > of, are in the regulations for the 13 carcinogens. These citations > do not list > a requirement for fume hood certification but require a face velocity > of 150 > feet per minute (fpm). > > Chemical fume hood manufactures, the American Chemical Society and > Prudent > Practices all state clearly that face velocities approaching or > exceeding 150 > fpm should not be used. The hoods are not designed for velocities > this high > and they can cause turbulence that can bring the fumes out of the > hood and into > the operators breathing zone. > > Prudent Practices has a good recommendation for fume hood face > velocity on page > 178, Section 8.C.2. Our standard for hood velocity is a paraphrasing > of their > recommendation. We aim for 100 fpm but allow a variance of 20% > either way > making 80-120 fpm acceptable. > > Our frequency of testing or "field certification" is every six months > based on > Department of Defense regulations. Testing on a six month basis is > also the > recommendation of The American Chemical Society in "Safety In > Academic > Chemistry Laboratories", page 48 Fume Hoods. > > Hope this helps. > > Bill Schultz > USAMRIID > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > Subject: Re: Hood > Author: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List at > Internet-Mail > Date: 1/4/99 1:14 PM > > > Other than the "non-mandatory" Appendix A to 1910.1450 C.4.b and h > where > in the CFR regs does it show the need to inspect hoods for proper > functioning. I know it's in the regs somewhere but the books aren't > on my > desk! > > Thanks! > > Helen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Helen B. Gerhard > Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 12:47 PM > To: 'LABSAFETY-L Discussion List' > Subject: Hood > > Hi All: > > I know that this has been addressed before but what are the > airflow > requirements for laboratory fume hood? > > I've got the ACGIH information from my lab safety info > received in > Jim's class. However, someone has borrowed my 29 CFR so looking up > any > regulations is difficult at this time. Can someone help? > > Thanks! > > Helen > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:15:38 -0600 Reply-To: "swiki@bihs.net" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Swiki A. Anderson" Organization: Swiki Anderson & Associates, Inc. Subject: Commercialism on the web -OR- web etiquette -OR- Vendor-engineering education -OR- attempts to help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Colleague... Clearly I have offend some with my posting of information pointing to information on our web page at http://www.saai-svc.com/engineer/html/tech-notes.htm; if my attempts to share knowledge with you offend you, I am truly sorry. If I can eliminate one potential health hazard in a lab or, better yet, keep one individual from incurring a health problem, then the time and effort I have spent in generating responses like this will have been worth it and I will gladly continue to take the "heat". Mary Ann Solstad, CIH indicated something to the effect that the ventilation in her college laboratory was bad and that she and all her class mates have survived, "The bad old days weren't that dreadful". While I am glad about Mary Ann's survival, she and others like her ought to read, learn and understand that others have not been so lucky. For example see "Nightmare in Building 503" September, by Jonathan Eng, Chicago Magazine, 1998 at http://www.chicagomag.com/chicagomag/text/features/amoco/0998c.htm. You might also note that this is a Phoenix Controls job, and while the folks at Phoenix do a superior job of marketing, what if there are some latent defects associated with this system that you do not understand and may not know about? Have you instrumented laboratory air flow control systems available from various vendors and determined by repeatable metered results containment performance available with each? I have. And next, I call attention to "When Science Isn't Good Enough" by John Hubner, West Magazine, concerning the chronic ventilation health problems that have occurred at the IBM San Hose Plastics lab. Of eight individuals who were co-workers in this exciting place in the late 1970s, only one remains alive and he lives in fear that cancer will also claim him. Jim Morris at the Houston Chronicle has written extensively about ventilation in the work place and cancer resulting from it. Accessing http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/vinyl/stories.html will bring you to the index of most of his articles in his series entitled "In Strictest Confidence" which deals with workplace ventilation problems and the fact that industry knew they were harming employees in some cases. Can I challenge Mary Ann, Robert Burns and other like these folks to become informed about Morris' extensive investigative efforts? I especially suggest you read Morris' Sunday, December 20, 1998, article "Sickening Results"; check this at http://www.chron.com/content/story.html/page1/162714. It deals with laboratories and resulting health problems. Is dilution versus containment ventilation a problem? Ask Michelle Pigott who is quoted in Morris' "Sickening Result" article. Could a properly engineered and functioning containment ventilation system in her lab prevented injury to her son, Dalton? I suspect she would think so. I also suggest your review or Morris' "Slipshod practices frequently observed in college laboratories" at the same websight and also published December 20th. If you have trouble locating these Morris' articles, I try accessing them and other similar articles on the net via a link set up for your convenience from our WebPages at http://www.saai-svc.com/engineer/html/tech-notes.htm. Clicking on "LINKS...." will bring you to a listing of all of Morris's plus many other articles by others dealing with fire and exposure hazard that someone has experienced. In my own family, I have had one uncle, an insulator, die of asbestosis and another uncle who worked in a chemical plant where 1,3-butadiene was produced die from pancreatic cancer. My father worked in this same chemical plant as did I for a two year period, including some time in the two plant laboratories. The labs in this plant were built in the 1940 W.W.II era on the basis of an expected useful life of 5 years. They still remain in use today and have enjoyed little upgrade. At last count 19 people in "Gas Lab" in this plant have died of cancer, with about 80% of them from pancreatic cancer; only two of them had ever smoked. Concerning the Gas Lab, I am especially reminded of one of the supervisors that I worked for, a friend, that I visited with several years after I entered the consulting engineering business, about 1986. When I ask him about the ventilation system in this laboratory that was blatantly bad and obvious so, at least to me, and his response was something like, "Hell, I've worked here for 20 years and I don't have cancer!" Sad thing was that when I visited this plant again about four years later and ask about Jim Hutto, one of the technicians told me, "Didn't you know? He died of cancer last year." This plant is located in Jefferson County, Texas, a place once touted as the oil refining center of the world. Cancer per capita is higher in this county than anywhere else in the USA. Would retrofit of the lab air systems to satisfy a containment ventilation goal in lieu of the dilution ventilation system have made a difference? I don't know. But believe me, it sure would have helped to reduce if not eliminate the problem. Now the question of why bother to why try to communicate one's findings or the finding of others that have gone before us? Why spend the time and effort in publication and defend your ideas from internet "nazis" or other forms of informational/media purest zealot? I suppose it is because I really do care about others, especially the working stiff who is typically an hourly employee, who may spend his working life in a laboratory, trusting in his management to protect him from exposure problems, only to learn when he is about 50 years old that he has a malignancy that has only one ultimate cure, despite the radiation treatment or chemotherapy. It is, however, disappointing when someone lambaste you for trying to point out to them dilution versus containment ventilation faults, especially when you are parroting what much wiser men have learned and published some 50 years ago that present decision makers dictating ventilation system design failed to recognized, don't know about and won't look into because they are protecting their egos and turf. We can do better. We have got to do better. We desperately need our chemical industry in this country. It has to grow and expand. However, by the same token we must make the laboratories and other work place safer, especially via cost effective engineered solutions. In the meantime, I continued to be amazed by the reluctance of some employers to even consider changes that can only help, especially when we have a documented history and positive proof of enhancement? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:10:29 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Re: Commercialism on the web -OR- web etiquette -OR-Vendor-engineering education -OR- attempts to help Comments: To: swiki@bihs.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I, for one, thank you for taking the time to pull all these articles together and point me in their direction. Air Quality issues are the single largest complaint type I deal with as a CHO. Profs may not realize they are working with a potentially explosive compound but they know they have a problem when the smell or recurrent sinusitis catches them by the nose. The thing is, we need air to live. Breathing is not an option. Our lungs and bodies are marvelous at protecting us from many hidden hazards in our every day lives, but they have limits. I am a firm believer in removing as many hazards in my life as I can. God knows there are enough out there that I do not know about and can not control. If working in a hood removes a few of these hazards, then you can bet I do. Further, I feel it my moral obligation to look out for those working with me, around me, and in labs that I have responsibility for. There is so much more to what we do than to simply look at the regs and the numbers. They are important tools in our evaluations and decision making, but not the only ones. I always ask myself, Is this the most PRUDENT way to do this? Would I do this task myself or allow someone I love to do it? Safety has to be PERSONAL. I think that can make us feel uncomfortable sometimes but we should not ignore it. Keep the info coming. Keep the commercials coming. Some of my easiest solutions to tough problems we found in the junk mail adds filling my snail mail box. For what its worth, Janeen. ***************** Janeen Lapierre, CHO College of Osteopathic Medicine University of New England 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446 Opinions are mine and not those of UNE. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:04:28 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: James Kapin Subject: Lab Safety Employment Opportunity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Colleagues, we will be accepting applications for the job below for the next three weeks. Please pass this on to anyone who might be interested. All application materials need to go to UCSD HR (not to me), complete info at Thanks, Jim 116270-Y EH&S SPECIALIST I Environment, Health and Safety Filing Deadline: 1/22/99 $41,900-$52,300/yr. 100% Career As a member of the Research Safety Team the incumbent will support the research community at UCSD and facilitate safe and healthy research activities. Evaluate health and safety hazards in laboratories and support facilities according to environmental, health and safety principles and legal requirements. Work with laboratory staff to correct deficiencies. Develop laboratory safety training for a variety of audiences, including faculty, staff, and students, and incumbent presents training in a variety of settings to individuals and groups. Develop written materials, policies, and procedures to support the laboratory safety program, contribute to the UCSD Laboratory Safety Guide, and to the UCSD Laboratory Safety Web page. Support other chemical safety and research safety programs including the UCSD Hazard Communication, carcinogen registration, controlled substances, and emergency response. Provide advice and consultation on chemical safety to non-lab facilities and assists the Campus Chemical Safety Officer on special projects. REQUIREMENTS: Demonstrated knowledge and experience in the identification and evaluation of health and safety hazards in research laboratories. Demonstrated knowledge of current legal requirements, guidelines, and prudent practices applying to health and safety issues. Applied knowledge of chemical toxicology and properties, and of the principles of chemical storage, use and disposal. Demonstrated experience in design and performance of effective laboratory surveys, and ability to evaluate the results of such surveys and communicate findings in an effective, positive manner. Communication skills necessary to impart health and safety information to workers of differing backgrounds. Skills and knowledge to organize, present, and evaluate classes, seminars, and training sessions on health and safety topics. Demonstrated ability to use word processing, spreadsheet, database and other software to analyze data and prepare professional documents and training materials, including web pages. Ability to organize and schedule tasks to complete projects effectively and efficiently. Demonstrated strong ability to communicate effectively, both orally and in writing. Knowledge in the selection and use of personal protective equipment including, but not limited to, respirators, gloves and protective clothing. Ability and willingness to respond to hazardous materials spills and incidents as part of the UCSD emergency response team. Ability to pass pulmonary function test, be fit-tested and wear an air purifying respirator and a self-contained breathing apparatus. Jim Kapin UCSD Chemical Safety Officer Mail Code 0920 9500 Gilman Drive, La Jolla CA 92093 (619)534-2823 fax (619)534-7982 mailto:jkapin@ucsd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:09:49 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Sharyn Bake Subject: Re: Lab Safety Employment Opportunity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Gary, here is a great job in a great location. The salary is not too bad. Check it out! Sharyn > ---------- > From: James Kapin > Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List > Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 1999 10:04 AM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Lab Safety Employment Opportunity > > Colleagues, we will be accepting applications for the job below for the > next three weeks. Please pass this on to anyone who might be interested. > All application materials need to go to UCSD HR (not to me), complete info > at Thanks, Jim > > > 116270-Y > EH&S SPECIALIST I > Environment, Health and Safety > Filing Deadline: 1/22/99 > $41,900-$52,300/yr. > 100% Career > > As a member of the Research Safety Team the incumbent will support the > research community at UCSD and facilitate safe and healthy research > activities. Evaluate health and safety hazards in laboratories and support > facilities according to environmental, health and safety principles and > legal requirements. Work with laboratory staff to correct deficiencies. > Develop laboratory safety training for a variety of audiences, including > faculty, staff, and students, and incumbent presents training in a variety > of settings to individuals and groups. Develop written materials, > policies, > and procedures to support the laboratory safety program, contribute to > the > UCSD Laboratory Safety Guide, and to the UCSD Laboratory Safety Web page. > Support other chemical safety and research safety programs including the > UCSD Hazard Communication, carcinogen registration, controlled substances, > and emergency response. Provide advice and consultation on chemical safety > to non-lab facilities and assists the Campus Chemical Safety Officer on > special projects. > > REQUIREMENTS: Demonstrated knowledge and experience in the identification > and evaluation of health and safety hazards in research laboratories. > Demonstrated knowledge of current legal requirements, guidelines, and > prudent practices applying to health and safety issues. Applied knowledge > of chemical toxicology and properties, and of the principles of chemical > storage, use and disposal. Demonstrated experience in design and > performance of effective laboratory surveys, and ability to evaluate the > results of such surveys and communicate findings in an effective, positive > manner. Communication skills necessary to impart health and safety > information to workers of differing backgrounds. Skills and knowledge to > organize, present, and evaluate classes, seminars, and training sessions > on > health and safety topics. Demonstrated ability to use word processing, > spreadsheet, database and other software to analyze data and prepare > professional documents and training materials, including web pages. > Ability > to organize and schedule tasks to complete projects effectively and > efficiently. Demonstrated strong ability to communicate effectively, both > orally and in writing. Knowledge in the selection and use of personal > protective equipment including, but not limited to, respirators, gloves > and > protective clothing. Ability and willingness to respond to hazardous > materials spills and incidents as part of the UCSD emergency response > team. > Ability to pass pulmonary function test, be fit-tested and wear an air > purifying respirator and a self-contained breathing apparatus. > > > > > Jim Kapin > UCSD Chemical Safety Officer > Mail Code 0920 > 9500 Gilman Drive, La Jolla CA 92093 > (619)534-2823 fax (619)534-7982 > mailto:jkapin@ucsd.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:42:53 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Neal Langerman Subject: COMMERCIAL: Revised Web Site Comments: To: hs-canada@ccohs.ca, SAFETY@LIST.UVM.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have revised the web site for Advanced Chemical Safety and have published the 1999 training schedule. I have also posted new information on our regulatory compliance documents. Neal ************************************************************* NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY 8909 Complex Drive San Diego CA 92123-1418 619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX) 619 990 4908 (cellular) visit our homepage: http://www.chemical-safety.com ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:09:01 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Scott M. Davis" Subject: Liquid Nitrogen Storage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi folks! We are considering the installation of a liquid nitrogen bulk storage tank. It is my experience that these are quite common at Universities. Besides the obvious hazards associated with ice build-up, and severe frostbite from improper handling of LN2, is anyone aware of any unique hazards from these units. Many Thanx, Scott Davis, CIH UNC Charlotte Safety Office ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:15:40 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd put a good strong chain link fence around it. You don't want someone to take some out some dark night and get injured. -----Original Message----- From: Scott M. Davis To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 16:10 Subject: Liquid Nitrogen Storage >Hi folks! >We are considering the installation of a liquid nitrogen bulk storage tank. >It is my experience that these are quite common at Universities. Besides >the obvious hazards associated with ice build-up, and severe frostbite from >improper handling of LN2, is anyone aware of any unique hazards from these >units. >Many Thanx, >Scott Davis, CIH >UNC Charlotte Safety Office > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:38:19 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mark Yanchisin Subject: Alternative for dichloro dimethyl silane MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Happy New Year to all!! Does anyone know of anything that could be used as an alternative for using dichloro dimethyl silane diluted with ETOH for use as a silicone coating for glassware? This glass is used for protein synthesis and gel work. Thanks!! Mark Yanchisin Coordinator for Clinical and Lab Safety Programs University of Florida Env. Health and Safety PO Box 112190 Gainesville, FL 32611-2190 352-846-2550 (T) 352-392-7386 (F) Mark@ehs.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:49:27 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Peter Priniski Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Please consider the following. Not only do you need to consider ice build-up, but water condensation as well...possible slip hazard. Aslo, consider adiquate ventilation at the use points. Be aware that valves often can "freeze up" making it difficult to close when needed. Good luck. Pete > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott M. Davis [SMTP:smdavis@EMAIL.UNCC.EDU] > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 15:09 > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Liquid Nitrogen Storage > > Hi folks! > We are considering the installation of a liquid nitrogen bulk storage > tank. > It is my experience that these are quite common at Universities. Besides > the obvious hazards associated with ice build-up, and severe frostbite > from > improper handling of LN2, is anyone aware of any unique hazards from these > units. > Many Thanx, > Scott Davis, CIH > UNC Charlotte Safety Office ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 04:07:52 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mark Smith Subject: Toxicity Data Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Is anyone familiar with the explanation of why an LD50 for "Skin, Rabbit" would be lower than the "Oral, Rat"? Case in point below (2-cyclohexen-1-one) Is this common or unusual? LD50/LC50: CAS# 930-68-7: Inhalation, rat: LC50 =250 ppm/4H; Oral, rat: LD50 = 220 mg/kg; Skin, rabbit: LD50 = 70 mg/kg. ms *************************************** MARK SMITH HENDRIX COLLEGE CHEMISTRY LABORATORY COORDINATOR CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER NRCC-CHO *************************************** 1600 Washington Ave Conway, AR 72032 501-450-3812 Fax : 501-450-3829 *************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:36:42 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Teresa Robertson Organization: CSU Bakersfield Subject: Re: Toxicity Data Comments: cc: trobertson@csubak.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu,.internet writes: >Is anyone familiar with the explanation of why an LD50 for "Skin, >Rabbit" >would be lower than the "Oral, Rat"? Case in point below >(2-cyclohexen-1-one) >Is this common or unusual? Mark, I don't have a good answer to your question, but an interesting related reference. I wish I had a more recent edition, but in "The Toxic Substances List, 1973 Edition" by NIOSH, Table One is called "Limiting Dosages Differentiating Toxic and Non-Toxic Substances According to Route of Administration to Experimental Animals of a Maximum Single (Acute) Dose Causing Death". The rows in the table list different species. The columns list different routes of administration. The body of the table lists LD50 data. Oral rat data is common and many of us use 500 mg/kg and less to define toxicity, but what about, for instance, IPR-Qal (Intraperitoneal-Quail)? According to the chart, a substance is toxic if the IPR-Qal is less than or equal to 20,000 mg/kg. (P.S. the number they give for oral rat is 5,000 mg/kg, so I'd say these numbers are for "moderate toxicity") Teresa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:48:37 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Dr. Linda A. Swihart" Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage In-Reply-To: <199901062109.PAA66224@saluki-mailsmtp.siu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >We are considering the installation of a liquid nitrogen bulk storage tank. >It is my experience that these are quite common at Universities. Besides >the obvious hazards associated with ice build-up, and severe frostbite from >improper handling of LN2, is anyone aware of any unique hazards from these >units. We have a go-round every once in a while with grad students and post docs who fill a small Dewar (the sort without handles) and carry it, open, through the hallway. Or up the passenger elevator. I recently saw a fellow with five large books in his left arm, a cup of coffee in his left hand, and a 1-litre Dewar in his right hand trying to open his lab door from the hallway side. He was holding the Dewar up high, some instinct saying to keep it out of the way I guess, while bending down and to the left to try to operate the door handle with a couple available left-hand fingers. I thought he was going to pour it into his right ear..... The party line on in-building transportation here is to -- use a Dewar with a handle or use a secondary carrier with handle -- have open-mouth Dewar corked (it's *not* a seal but it helps a bit against splashing) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:25:46 +1300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Tony Haggerty Subject: Re: Toxicity Data MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark, Have a look at the units. Inhalation is ppm/4hr, whilst oral is mg/kg of body weight, something like daily over 14 days, so they are not really comparable. Also note that the inhalation dose is referred to as the LC 50 whereas the oral dose is the LD 50. Substances can also be of varying toxicity according to their route of entry. So a substance which is highly toxic by ingestion may be less so by absorption. Here is an interesting example I came across while checking victims of a Magnesium fire. The product of combustion is Magnesium Oxide, commonly given to infants as an antacid. i.e. virtually non toxic by ingestion so I was not unduly concerned until I read that on inhalation it is quite toxic and liable to induce a condition known as "Metal Fume Fever". When looking at toxicology you must compare like with like, then assess the most likely route of entry and then always remember what an epidemiologist here called the "Canaries of Society". i.e. Those people who are sensitive to minute amounts of a substance. This is often called an allergy but is in fact a toxic reaction. Hope this helps your understanding. Regards Tony ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:59:28 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: Toxicity Data In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Not that unusual. Different routes and different species each have their little, or sometimes big, idiosyncrasies. Sometimes a mouse has keeled over dead, and a rat been unaffected. In one famous poisoning in the 30's people were partially paralyzed, calves and chickens had another reaction (they died I think) and your usual lab animal was unaffected. Public Health Service wrote an extensive monograph on it. Go figure. Dig it out--it's a good read. Starts with tri-ortho--. That's your only clue. Mary Ann At 04:07 AM 1/7/99 -0600, you wrote: >Is anyone familiar with the explanation of why an LD50 for "Skin, Rabbit" >would be lower than the "Oral, Rat"? Case in point below >(2-cyclohexen-1-one) >Is this common or unusual? > >LD50/LC50: > CAS# 930-68-7: Inhalation, rat: LC50 =250 ppm/4H; > Oral, rat: LD50 = 220 mg/kg; Skin, rabbit: LD50 = 70 mg/kg. > > > >*************************************** > MARK SMITH > HENDRIX COLLEGE CHEMISTRY > LABORATORY COORDINATOR > CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER NRCC-CHO >*************************************** > 1600 Washington Ave > Conway, AR 72032 > 501-450-3812 > Fax : 501-450-3829 >*************************************** > Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority Past DivCHAS Chair, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:06:41 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: Toxicity Data In-Reply-To: <009901be39ed$6b2d0ee0$bfcffea9@j623hqv7a394> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just an aside. Metal fume fever is a self-limiting fever and aches that is usually over in 24 hours after exposure to fumes from welding galvanized iron. I asked the 3 welders at a firm I advise--they knew about it, but had never had it. Said they had never heard of it's being serious. Mary Ann > >Here is an interesting example I came across while checking victims of a >Magnesium fire. The product of combustion is Magnesium Oxide, commonly >given to infants as an antacid. i.e. virtually non toxic by ingestion so I >was not unduly concerned until I read that on inhalation it is quite toxic >and liable to induce a condition known as "Metal Fume Fever". > >When looking at toxicology you must compare like with like, then assess the >most likely route of entry and then always remember what an epidemiologist >here called the "Canaries of Society". i.e. Those people who are sensitive >to minute amounts of a substance. This is often called an allergy but is in >fact a toxic reaction. > >Hope this helps your understanding. >Regards >Tony > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:03:24 +1300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Peter Robinson Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE3A70.67A88C80" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE3A70.67A88C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kia Ora All Other possible hazards to those already discussed. 1. Implosion of Dewars used to transport LN2 in-house. I have used a = couple of options - tape around the outside of the container to further = help contain any flying glass (when I was a student MANY years ago, we = used replacement Dewar inners, taped, with no outer cover to save money = - impressive when they implode, but we never had any cuts. T'wouldn't = be allowed nowadays) 2. If the bleed vent from the main cylinder should ice up, there could = be a pressure buildup. 3. I have also used small polystyrene containers to hold LN2. Cheap, = works OK though inside can become brittle. Loss of LN2 can be high. = May be safer than glass Dewars? I have not been able to find any classification for "Cryogenic Liquids" = in any of the hazard classification systems I have looked at (NZ, = Australia, US, Europe). I think a classification is needed, along with = appropriate signage, etc, and I made submissions to a recent Govt = commission in NZ about this - hasn't been acted on. Anyone got any thoughts on this - how can we get a classification put in = place? The stuff is certainly hazardous! We get liq Ar delivered by = tanker, and this does not have any signage which would be of use if it = was involved in a crash. Peter Robinson PhD FNZIC Environmental Division Manager Hill Laboratories, Private Bag 3205, Hamilton, NEW ZEALAND Phone: +64 7 858 2000 Fax: +64 7 858 2001 Email: peter@hill-labs.co.nz ---------- From: Scott M. Davis Sent: Thursday, 7 January 1999 10:09 am To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Liquid Nitrogen Storage Hi folks! We are considering the installation of a liquid nitrogen bulk storage = tank. It is my experience that these are quite common at Universities. = Besides the obvious hazards associated with ice build-up, and severe frostbite = from improper handling of LN2, is anyone aware of any unique hazards from = these units. Many Thanx, Scott Davis, CIH UNC Charlotte Safety Office ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:56:21 +1300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Tony Haggerty Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Teina Katou Katoa Peter, I think it's the United Nations that classifies gases according to their states. i.e. Permanent, Liquified, Dissolved and Cryogenic and then classifies them for transportation as Flammable, Non-flammable and Toxic. I'm away from the office for a while but I will check when I get back. Haere Ra Tony ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:00:51 +1300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Tony Haggerty Subject: Metal Fume Fever MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Mary Ann All my information is text book but my original source was NIOSH which I recall as being quite cautious about it and I've just checked the OSHA site and it talks about lung damage. Perhaps your guys have been lucky or the worst is yet to come. I am of course referring to Magnesium Oxide as the cause. Other Oxides such as Zinc from galvanising may not be as bad. Cheers Tony ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:37:50 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Julie O'Brien Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >1. Implosion of Dewars used to transport LN2 in-house. I have used a couple of options - tape around the outside of the container to further help contain any flying glass (when I was a student MANY years ago, we used replacement Dewar inners, taped, with no outer cover to save money - impressive when they implode, but we never had any cuts. T'wouldn't be allowed nowadays) There are special Dewars available for storage and transportation of cryogenics in-house that are much more appropriate than the ones you are referring to; the Dewars come in sizes as small as 1 L and as large as 20 or 30 L. The glass containers are really only supposed to be used when the cryogenic is in use (such as to cool a cold trap). >3. I have also used small polystyrene containers to hold LN2. Cheap, works OK though inside can become brittle. Loss of LN2 can be high. May be safer than glass Dewars? I would think that polystyrene would get so brittle that any significant handling of the container would cause it to break. How small are the containers? We have replaced most of our glass dewars with metal ones. They do not implode and last much longer than the glass ones. They are available from Cole Parmer. (p.503 in 97-98 Catalog) Julie O'Brien Chemist PCR, Inc. PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 ext. 232 Fax 352-373-7503 afn35210@afn.org Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville PO Box 5951 Gainesville, FL 32627 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:33:32 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Wes Kolar Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage In-Reply-To: <199901062109.PAA66224@saluki-mailsmtp.siu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Nitrogen does not support respiration. LN2 should therefore be stored in a fairly well ventilated area. At 03:09 PM 1/6/99 -0600, you wrote: >Hi folks! >We are considering the installation of a liquid nitrogen bulk storage tank. >It is my experience that these are quite common at Universities. Besides >the obvious hazards associated with ice build-up, and severe frostbite from >improper handling of LN2, is anyone aware of any unique hazards from these >units. >Many Thanx, >Scott Davis, CIH >UNC Charlotte Safety Office > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Wes Kolar Environmental Safety Specialist University of Georgia Environmental Safety Services Athens, GA 30602 http://www.ps.uga.edu/ess/LaboratorySafetyOffice.html <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:03:50 -0600 Reply-To: "msturgeon@mriresearch.org" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike Sturgeon Organization: MRI Subject: Re: Toxicity Data Is anyone familiar with the explanation of why an LD50 for "Skin, Rabbit" would be lower than the "Oral, Rat"? Case in point below (2-cyclohexen-1-one) Is this common or unusual? LD50/LC50: CAS# 930-68-7: Inhalation, rat: LC50 =250 ppm/4H; Oral, rat: LD50 = 220 mg/kg; Skin, rabbit: LD50 = 70 mg/kg. *************************************** MARK SMITH HENDRIX COLLEGE CHEMISTRY LABORATORY COORDINATOR CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER NRCC-CHO *************************************** Mark- Your posting hit my server at 4 a.m. Hope this isn't keeping you up at night. Anyway, while I don't know why, if I were to speculate (which I will), my guess is that it has something to do with the effect of digestive fluids on the substance in question. Perhaps saliva/stomach acids/bile in some way alter the substance or prevent uptake into the bloodstream/target organ in a way that does not occur with skin contact. Just my guess before coffee on a cold snowy morning. Mike Sturgeon Safety Officer Midwest Research Institute ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:04:28 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ron Angus Subject: Toxicity data Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The question of why toxicity varies by route of exposure and method of administration is as difficult as explaining why the data are different between mamalian species given the same route of exposure and method of administration. It helps to think in simple terms. Why is liquid water relatively non-toxic when injected into the skin but deadly when breathed? Part of the answer has to do with the body's protective mechanisms which operate within specific "closed" systems. For instance, exposure by skin may be slowed down by lipid layer impermeability so that the liver is not overwhelmed by the assault, however, breathing the same stuff may send it almost immediately into the blood stream where it knocks out the liver quickly. Most chemicals have different toxicity levels based on the route and method of delivery. That's why all those tests are conducted (wouldn't life be easy if the answers were all simple). The important thing to get out of the data is the relative data relationships. If the stuff is nasty by skin contact but not by breathing, gloves may solve the problem. If the relationship is the opposite, you probably need a respirator but not gloves. Or if you have two chemicals that will do the job and one has a LC/LD50 lower than the other, it becomes your default choice. For reading in this area I recommend highly the book by Dr. Alice Ottoboni, The Dose Makes the Poison, it is a plain language guide to toxicology which is very readible for the layperson. Ron Angus The University of Georgia ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:04:09 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Re: Toxicity Data Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As some have already alluded to, all species are not created equal. Even if you were comparing same routs of entry, the species may deal with the chemical differently on a metabolic level. Sometimes the metabolites of chemicals are the agents that cause adverse reactions, such as death, in the organism. I would say this case you give is very common. Good luck, Janeen. ***************** Janeen Lapierre, CHO College of Osteopathic Medicine University of New England 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446 Opinions are mine and not those of UNE. >>> Mark Smith - 1/7/99 5:07 AM >>> Is anyone familiar with the explanation of why an LD50 for "Skin, Rabbit" would be lower than the "Oral, Rat"? Case in point below (2-cyclohexen-1-one) Is this common or unusual? LD50/LC50: CAS# 930-68-7: Inhalation, rat: LC50 =250 ppm/4H; Oral, rat: LD50 = 220 mg/kg; Skin, rabbit: LD50 = 70 mg/kg. ms *************************************** MARK SMITH HENDRIX COLLEGE CHEMISTRY LABORATORY COORDINATOR CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER NRCC-CHO *************************************** 1600 Washington Ave Conway, AR 72032 501-450-3812 Fax : 501-450-3829 *************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:20:58 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jennifer Reader Organization: Environmental Health and Safety Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The tank will also require inspection by your pressure vessel inspector (ours is with the insurance company) and will require a certificate of approval (at least in Ontario). Jennifer Reader, B.S., M.S.P.H. Hazardous Materials Safety Officer Environmental Health and Safety University of Guelph Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1 Canada 519-824-4120 X3190 Fax 519-824-0364 e-Mail jennifer@ehs.uoguelph.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:36:27 EST Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Toxicity Data Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-01-06 22:36:07 EST, you write: << When looking at toxicology you must compare like with like, then assess the most likely route of entry and then always remember what an epidemiologist here called the "Canaries of Society". i.e. Those people who are sensitive to minute amounts of a substance. This is often called an allergy but is in fact a toxic reaction. >> Isn't there a significant different between an allergic reaction and a hypersensitive response? Jim Kaufman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:38:48 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Hiram Patterson Subject: Re: Toxicity Data Comments: To: Mary Ann Solstad MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mary Ann is referring to tri-ortho cresol phosphate (TOCP) which is (or was?) used in hydraulic fluid. I know the Navy at one time used hydraulic fluids containing it. I wonder if in this 30's incident that cooking oil was contaminated with it. Hiram Patterson Safety Manager Baylor College of Dentistry, Dallas ---------- From: Mary Ann Solstad [SMTP:msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET] Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 11:59 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Toxicity Data Not that unusual. Different routes and different species each have their little, or sometimes big, idiosyncrasies. Sometimes a mouse has keeled over dead, and a rat been unaffected. In one famous poisoning in the 30's people were partially paralyzed, calves and chickens had another reaction (they died I think) and your usual lab animal was unaffected. Public Health Service wrote an extensive monograph on it. Go figure. Dig it out--it's a good read. Starts with tri-ortho--. That's your only clue. Mary Ann At 04:07 AM 1/7/99 -0600, you wrote: >Is anyone familiar with the explanation of why an LD50 for "Skin, Rabbit" >would be lower than the "Oral, Rat"? Case in point below >(2-cyclohexen-1-one) >Is this common or unusual? > >LD50/LC50: > CAS# 930-68-7: Inhalation, rat: LC50 =250 ppm/4H; > Oral, rat: LD50 = 220 mg/kg; Skin, rabbit: LD50 = 70 mg/kg. > > > >*************************************** > MARK SMITH > HENDRIX COLLEGE CHEMISTRY > LABORATORY COORDINATOR > CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER NRCC-CHO >*************************************** > 1600 Washington Ave > Conway, AR 72032 > 501-450-3812 > Fax : 501-450-3829 >*************************************** > Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority Past DivCHAS Chair, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:47:38 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Greene, Ben" Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Scott - if you are having bulk LN2 delivered by a vendor, make sure they have the appropriate safety procedures for tanker to storage tank transfers and that delivery/transfers are properly coordinated. Control access to the area during transfers. Appropriate PPE, eye and face, skin, and foot protection should be used. There are a number of sources of gloves approved for cryogen handling. An oxygen meter with an audible alarm and a two person system (minimum) should be used. Be real careful when transfers are being performed when weather conditions impair visibility. Safety shower/eye wash, as recommended by your occupational physician should be close by; treatment of cryogenic burns is not trivial; rubbing can cause severe tissue damage. Have emergency procedures in place in case of cryogenic burns. Protect the storage unit from damage by vehicles with appropriate access controls, such as concrete posts. Make sure it is located such that, if a catostrophic failure occurs, people nearby would not be frozen or asphyxiated. As far as transfers from the tank, which typically involve smaller quantities of LN2, make sure you have detailed procedures for opening/closing valves and make this a buddy system operation where one person in suitable PPE can assist if the person making a transfer has problems. The risks involved here should never be underestimated. Some of the list members discussed dewar handling; I prefer the metal dewars; and never allow a dewar (or anything else you wouldn't want released) in an elevator or otherwise inadequately ventilated area where people are present. My opinion only. Ben Greene, Ph.D AlliedSignal Las Cruces, NM 88004 505-524-5761 > ---------- > From: Scott M. Davis[SMTP:smdavis@EMAIL.UNCC.EDU] > Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 2:09 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Liquid Nitrogen Storage > > Hi folks! > We are considering the installation of a liquid nitrogen bulk storage > tank. > It is my experience that these are quite common at Universities. > Besides > the obvious hazards associated with ice build-up, and severe frostbite > from > improper handling of LN2, is anyone aware of any unique hazards from > these > units. > Many Thanx, > Scott Davis, CIH > UNC Charlotte Safety Office > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:30:38 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Dorian McMillan Subject: cyanide antidote kits MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Folks- I'm looking into the possibility of buying a cyanide antidote kit for a lab that will be using K cyanide. Any recommendations for vendors? Does anyone know if the antidote must be administered by medical personnel, or is it OK for non-medical personnel to give an antidote in an emergency situation? Thanks! Dorian McMillan, Lab Manager Department of Biology College of Charleston Charleston, SC 29424 McMillanD@CofC.edu 843-953-4847 *Opinions are my own, not my employer's* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:41:37 -0500 Reply-To: "Dr. Henry" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Henry Boyter Jr." Subject: Re: cyanide antidote kits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Call your local emergency room, they will have the answers. Dr. Henry Boyter, Jr. Ph.D. Chemist The opinions of Dr. Boyter are provided for informational purposes only and should not be used as advice. No warranty or expression of professionalism is implied. *************** -----Original Message----- From: Dorian McMillan To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Date: Thursday, January 07, 1999 10:26 AM Subject: cyanide antidote kits Hi Folks- I'm looking into the possibility of buying a cyanide antidote kit for a lab that will be using K cyanide. Any recommendations for vendors? Does anyone know if the antidote must be administered by medical personnel, or is it OK for non-medical personnel to give an antidote in an emergency situation? Thanks! Dorian McMillan, Lab Manager Department of Biology College of Charleston Charleston, SC 29424 McMillanD@CofC.edu 843-953-4847 *Opinions are my own, not my employer's* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:52:27 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Julie O'Brien Subject: Re: Alternative for dichloro dimethyl silane Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Does anyone know of anything that could be used as an alternative for using >dichloro dimethyl silane diluted with ETOH for use as a silicone coating for >glassware? This glass is used for protein synthesis and gel work. Mark, When the students are "diluting" the chlorosilane with ethanol, a chemical reaction occurs. The Cl is replaced with OH groups. Lancaster Synthesis sells a silicon compound called Prosil 28 specifically for coating glassware in applications such as yours. It should do the trick without the use of a chlorosilane. Lancaster's phone # is 800-238-2324. (By the way, Prosil 28 is more expensive than going the chlorosilane route.) If this material can't work in your application, let me know because I have several other alternatives. Julie O'Brien Chemist PCR, Inc. PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 ext. 232 Fax 352-373-7503 afn35210@afn.org Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville PO Box 5951 Gainesville, FL 32627 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:23:31 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Re: Toxicity Data Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ***************** Janeen Lapierre, CHO College of Osteopathic Medicine University of New England 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446 Opinions are mine and not those of UNE. >>> - 1/7/99 9:36 AM >>> In a message dated 99-01-06 22:36:07 EST, you write: << When looking at toxicology you must compare like with like, then assess the most likely route of entry and then always remember what an epidemiologist here called the "Canaries of Society". i.e. Those people who are sensitive to minute amounts of a substance. This is often called an allergy but is in fact a toxic reaction. >> Isn't there a significant different between an allergic reaction and a hypersensitive response? Jim Kaufman The short answer is yes! Janeen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:11:14 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike hinz Subject: Re: Toxicity Data Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The slightly longer answer is; an allergic reaction, also known as a sensitization reaction requires prior exposure to the causal agent or a structurally similar substance. Subsequent exposure triggers an immune response. Allergic responses do not typically exhibit the dose-response curve seen with other toxic agents. A hypersensitivity, on the other hand, may be thought of as an example of the low end of the dose-response curve. Mike Hinz Chemistry Dept. Washington State University At 11:23 AM 1/7/99 -0500, you wrote: >***************** >Janeen Lapierre, CHO >College of Osteopathic Medicine >University of New England >11 Hills Beach Road >Biddeford, ME 04005 > >E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU >Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446 >Opinions are mine and not those of UNE. > >>>> - 1/7/99 9:36 AM >>> >In a message dated 99-01-06 22:36:07 EST, you write: > ><< > When looking at toxicology you must compare like with like, then assess the > most likely route of entry and then always remember what an epidemiologist > here called the "Canaries of Society". i.e. Those people who are sensitive > to minute amounts of a substance. This is often called an allergy but is in > fact a toxic reaction. >> > >Isn't there a significant different between an allergic reaction and a >hypersensitive response? Jim Kaufman > >The short answer is yes! Janeen > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:43:41 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike hinz Subject: Re: cyanide antidote kits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We offer amyl nitrite inhalants as an optional addition to the first aid kits in those labs using cyanides. First we checked with the emergency room of the hospital to verify that they were prepared to handle cases of cyanide intoxication. Next we got approval from campus medical personnel to use the amyl nitrite as a first aid measure. We get the inhalants through the hospital pharmacy. We include information on first aid for cyanide exposure in our departmental first aid and safety courses and provide a procedure card to be placed in the first aid kit with the inhalants. Two important items on the procedure card are -inform medical personnel of the intoxicating agent and -inform them that amyl nitrite treatment was used. Hope this is of help. Mike Hinz Chemistry Dept. Washington State University At 10:30 AM 1/7/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Folks- > >I'm looking into the possibility of buying a cyanide antidote kit for a lab >that will be using K cyanide. Any recommendations for vendors? Does >anyone know if the antidote must be administered by medical personnel, or >is it OK for non-medical personnel to give an antidote in an emergency >situation? > >Thanks! > >Dorian McMillan, Lab Manager >Department of Biology >College of Charleston >Charleston, SC 29424 >McMillanD@CofC.edu >843-953-4847 > >*Opinions are my own, not my employer's* > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:34:31 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Helen B. Gerhard" Subject: Re: cyanide antidote kits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain How much are amyl nitrate inhalants? One of the dangers listed on the MSDS for Acetonitrile is cyanide poisoning. Would it be prudent to have these inhalants where significant quantities of Acetonitrile are used? Do any other companies using Acetonitrile have these inhalants? Thanks! Helen -----Original Message----- From: Mike hinz [SMTP:mhinz@WSU.EDU] Sent: Thursday, January 07, 1999 10:44 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: cyanide antidote kits We offer amyl nitrite inhalants as an optional addition to the first aid kits in those labs using cyanides. First we checked with the emergency room of the hospital to verify that they were prepared to handle cases of cyanide intoxication. Next we got approval from campus medical personnel to use the amyl nitrite as a first aid measure. We get the inhalants through the hospital pharmacy. We include information on first aid for cyanide exposure in our departmental first aid and safety courses and provide a procedure card to be placed in the first aid kit with the inhalants. Two important items on the procedure card are -inform medical personnel of the intoxicating agent and -inform them that amyl nitrite treatment was used. Hope this is of help. Mike Hinz Chemistry Dept. Washington State University At 10:30 AM 1/7/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Folks- > >I'm looking into the possibility of buying a cyanide antidote kit for a lab >that will be using K cyanide. Any recommendations for vendors? Does >anyone know if the antidote must be administered by medical personnel, or >is it OK for non-medical personnel to give an antidote in an emergency >situation? > >Thanks! > >Dorian McMillan, Lab Manager >Department of Biology >College of Charleston >Charleston, SC 29424 >McMillanD@CofC.edu >843-953-4847 > >*Opinions are my own, not my employer's* > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:36:53 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Helen B. Gerhard" Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain One of the hazards listed on the MSDS is the possibility of oxygen build up that can be ignited by a spark. Thanks! Helen -----Original Message----- From: Windows/ServerMail/Peter On Behalf Of Peter Robinson Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 11:03 PM To: 'LABSAFETY-L Discussion List' Subject: RE: Liquid Nitrogen Storage Kia Ora All Other possible hazards to those already discussed. 1. Implosion of Dewars used to transport LN2 in-house. I have used a couple of options - tape around the outside of the container to further help contain any flying glass (when I was a student MANY years ago, we used replacement Dewar inners, taped, with no outer cover to save money - impressive when they implode, but we never had any cuts. T'wouldn't be allowed nowadays) 2. If the bleed vent from the main cylinder should ice up, there could be a pressure buildup. 3. I have also used small polystyrene containers to hold LN2. Cheap, works OK though inside can become brittle. Loss of LN2 can be high. May be safer than glass Dewars? I have not been able to find any classification for "Cryogenic Liquids" in any of the hazard classification systems I have looked at (NZ, Australia, US, Europe). I think a classification is needed, along with appropriate signage, etc, and I made submissions to a recent Govt commission in NZ about this - hasn't been acted on. Anyone got any thoughts on this - how can we get a classification put in place? The stuff is certainly hazardous! We get liq Ar delivered by tanker, and this does not have any signage which would be of use if it was involved in a crash. Peter Robinson PhD FNZIC Environmental Division Manager Hill Laboratories, Private Bag 3205, Hamilton, NEW ZEALAND Phone: +64 7 858 2000 Fax: +64 7 858 2001 Email: peter@hill-labs.co.nz ---------- From: Scott M. Davis Sent: Thursday, 7 January 1999 10:09 am To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Liquid Nitrogen Storage Hi folks! We are considering the installation of a liquid nitrogen bulk storage tank. It is my experience that these are quite common at Universities. Besides the obvious hazards associated with ice build-up, and severe frostbite from improper handling of LN2, is anyone aware of any unique hazards from these units. Many Thanx, Scott Davis, CIH UNC Charlotte Safety Office ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:22:18 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike hinz Subject: Re: cyanide antidote kits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The inhalants cost us about 30 cents apiece. While it is possible to evolve HCN or CN- from acetonitrile, as in a fire or some other violent decomposition scenario, (the same could be said for burning plastics, for example), we have felt that the normal uses of ACN do not have near the risk of CN intoxication associated with other cyanides and have not routinely recommended the inhalants based on ACN use alone. Of course any lab with any concern over cyanide intoxication is more than welcome to stock the inhalants. We do not routinely stock the inhalants in all kits because amyl nitrite is quite toxic in its own right and, (we don't advertise this), has been known to be used to "get high" by various people lacking in good sense. Mike Hinz Chemistry Dept. Washington State University At 11:34 AM 1/7/99 -0700, you wrote: >How much are amyl nitrate inhalants? One of the dangers listed on the MSDS >for Acetonitrile is cyanide poisoning. Would it be prudent to have these >inhalants where significant quantities of Acetonitrile are used? Do any >other companies using Acetonitrile have these inhalants? > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:08:46 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Teresa Robertson Organization: CSU Bakersfield Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage Comments: cc: trobertson@csubak.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu,.internet writes: >One of the hazards listed on the MSDS is the possibility of oxygen >build up >that can be ignited by a spark. Let's expand and clarify that comment some - - - - Flammability and Explosibility Oxygen itself is nonflammable, but at concentrations greater than 25% supports and vigorously accelerates the combustion of flammable materials. Some materials (including metals) that are noncombustible in air will burn in the presence of oxygen. Reactivity and Incompatibility Oxygen is incompatible with combustible materials, including many lubricants and elastomers. Oil, greases, and other readily combustible substances should never be allowed to come in contact with O cylinders, valves, regulators, and fittings. Contact of liquid oxygen with many organic substances can lead to an explosion. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:35:59 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Wight, Hugh" Subject: Re: cyanide antidote kits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Unfortunately most MSDSs for acetonitrile are misleading in their omission of the hazards related to hepatic metabolism of acetonitrile and other aliphatic nitriles and aliphatic thiocyantes into free cyanide. Absorption of acetonitrile through the skin can cause a delayed cyanosis that may occur shortly after exposure of several hours later. The Department of Health and Human Services published a TSDR in November 1991 related to cyanide toxicity that directly addresses this hazard. Any group that routinely uses these substances should strongly consider having a cyanosis kit available (or their occupational health provider). Hugh Wight Manager of QA and Safety Officer Aquila Biopharmaceuticals, Inc. Framingham, MA (508) 766-2733 hwight@aquilabio.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike hinz [SMTP:mhinz@WSU.EDU] > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 1999 2:22 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: cyanide antidote kits > > The inhalants cost us about 30 cents apiece. > > While it is possible to evolve HCN or CN- from acetonitrile, as in a > fire or > some other violent decomposition scenario, (the same could be said for > burning plastics, for example), we have felt that the normal uses of > ACN do > not have near the risk of CN intoxication associated with other > cyanides > and have not routinely recommended the inhalants based on ACN use > alone. Of > course any lab with any concern over cyanide intoxication is more than > welcome to stock the inhalants. We do not routinely stock the > inhalants in > all kits because amyl nitrite is quite toxic in its own right and, (we > don't > advertise this), has been known to be used to "get high" by various > people > lacking in good sense. > > Mike Hinz > Chemistry Dept. > Washington State University > > At 11:34 AM 1/7/99 -0700, you wrote: > >How much are amyl nitrate inhalants? One of the dangers listed on > the MSDS > >for Acetonitrile is cyanide poisoning. Would it be prudent to have > these > >inhalants where significant quantities of Acetonitrile are used? Do > any > >other companies using Acetonitrile have these inhalants? > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:52:22 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: cyanide antidote kits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WE had them handy when we handled HCN, but I've never heard of them for acetonitrile. I'd check with your medical consultant. -----Original Message----- From: Helen B. Gerhard To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Thursday, January 07, 1999 13:39 Subject: Re: cyanide antidote kits >How much are amyl nitrate inhalants? One of the dangers listed on the MSDS >for Acetonitrile is cyanide poisoning. Would it be prudent to have these >inhalants where significant quantities of Acetonitrile are used? Do any >other companies using Acetonitrile have these inhalants? > >Thanks! > >Helen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike hinz [SMTP:mhinz@WSU.EDU] > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 1999 10:44 AM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: cyanide antidote kits > > We offer amyl nitrite inhalants as an optional addition to the first >aid > kits in those labs using cyanides. > > First we checked with the emergency room of the hospital to verify >that they > were prepared to handle cases of cyanide intoxication. > > Next we got approval from campus medical personnel to use the amyl >nitrite > as a first aid measure. > > We get the inhalants through the hospital pharmacy. > > We include information on first aid for cyanide exposure in our >departmental > first aid and safety courses and provide a procedure card to be >placed in > the first aid kit with the inhalants. Two important items on the >procedure > card are -inform medical personnel of the intoxicating agent and >-inform > them that amyl nitrite treatment was used. > > Hope this is of help. > > Mike Hinz > Chemistry Dept. > Washington State University > > At 10:30 AM 1/7/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi Folks- > > > >I'm looking into the possibility of buying a cyanide antidote kit >for a lab > >that will be using K cyanide. Any recommendations for vendors? >Does > >anyone know if the antidote must be administered by medical >personnel, or > >is it OK for non-medical personnel to give an antidote in an >emergency > >situation? > > > >Thanks! > > > >Dorian McMillan, Lab Manager > >Department of Biology > >College of Charleston > >Charleston, SC 29424 > >McMillanD@CofC.edu > >843-953-4847 > > > >*Opinions are my own, not my employer's* > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:54:08 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: cyanide antidote kits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Right! Wasn't there something about using them for better sex? -----Original Message----- From: Mike hinz To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Thursday, January 07, 1999 14:23 Subject: Re: cyanide antidote kits >The inhalants cost us about 30 cents apiece. > >While it is possible to evolve HCN or CN- from acetonitrile, as in a fire or >some other violent decomposition scenario, (the same could be said for >burning plastics, for example), we have felt that the normal uses of ACN do >not have near the risk of CN intoxication associated with other cyanides >and have not routinely recommended the inhalants based on ACN use alone. Of >course any lab with any concern over cyanide intoxication is more than >welcome to stock the inhalants. We do not routinely stock the inhalants in >all kits because amyl nitrite is quite toxic in its own right and, (we don't >advertise this), has been known to be used to "get high" by various people >lacking in good sense. > >Mike Hinz >Chemistry Dept. >Washington State University > > At 11:34 AM 1/7/99 -0700, you wrote: >>How much are amyl nitrate inhalants? One of the dangers listed on the MSDS >>for Acetonitrile is cyanide poisoning. Would it be prudent to have these >>inhalants where significant quantities of Acetonitrile are used? Do any >>other companies using Acetonitrile have these inhalants? >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:56:10 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And the O2 builds up in liq. N2 because the air condenses and N2 evaporates, leading to high O2? -----Original Message----- From: Teresa Robertson To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Thursday, January 07, 1999 15:10 Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage >LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu,.internet writes: >>One of the hazards listed on the MSDS is the possibility of oxygen >>build up >>that can be ignited by a spark. > >Let's expand and clarify that comment some - - - - > > >Flammability and Explosibility > > Oxygen itself is nonflammable, but at concentrations > greater than 25% supports and vigorously accelerates the > combustion of flammable materials. Some materials >(including > metals) that are noncombustible in air will burn in the >presence > of oxygen. > > Reactivity and Incompatibility > > Oxygen is incompatible with combustible materials, > including many lubricants and elastomers. Oil, greases, and > other readily combustible substances should never be >allowed > to come in contact with O cylinders, valves, regulators, >and > fittings. Contact of liquid oxygen with many organic >substances > can lead to an explosion. > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:57:53 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: cyanide antidote kits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd refer to the health provider. A CHO certificate does Not authorize us to practice medicine. -----Original Message----- From: Wight, Hugh To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Thursday, January 07, 1999 15:38 Subject: Re: cyanide antidote kits >Unfortunately most MSDSs for acetonitrile are misleading in their >omission of the hazards related to hepatic metabolism of acetonitrile >and other aliphatic nitriles and aliphatic thiocyantes into free >cyanide. Absorption of acetonitrile through the skin can cause a >delayed cyanosis that may occur shortly after exposure of several hours >later. The Department of Health and Human Services published a TSDR in >November 1991 related to cyanide toxicity that directly addresses this >hazard. > >Any group that routinely uses these substances should strongly consider >having a cyanosis kit available (or their occupational health provider). > >Hugh Wight >Manager of QA and Safety Officer >Aquila Biopharmaceuticals, Inc. >Framingham, MA >(508) 766-2733 >hwight@aquilabio.com > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mike hinz [SMTP:mhinz@WSU.EDU] >> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 1999 2:22 PM >> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >> Subject: Re: cyanide antidote kits >> >> The inhalants cost us about 30 cents apiece. >> >> While it is possible to evolve HCN or CN- from acetonitrile, as in a >> fire or >> some other violent decomposition scenario, (the same could be said for >> burning plastics, for example), we have felt that the normal uses of >> ACN do >> not have near the risk of CN intoxication associated with other >> cyanides >> and have not routinely recommended the inhalants based on ACN use >> alone. Of >> course any lab with any concern over cyanide intoxication is more than >> welcome to stock the inhalants. We do not routinely stock the >> inhalants in >> all kits because amyl nitrite is quite toxic in its own right and, (we >> don't >> advertise this), has been known to be used to "get high" by various >> people >> lacking in good sense. >> >> Mike Hinz >> Chemistry Dept. >> Washington State University >> >> At 11:34 AM 1/7/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >How much are amyl nitrate inhalants? One of the dangers listed on >> the MSDS >> >for Acetonitrile is cyanide poisoning. Would it be prudent to have >> these >> >inhalants where significant quantities of Acetonitrile are used? Do >> any >> >other companies using Acetonitrile have these inhalants? >> > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:03:26 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Don Abramowitz Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>One of the hazards listed on the MSDS is the possibility of oxygen >>build up that can be ignited by a spark... A mechanism I know of for oxygen build-up is the condensation of oxygen from the air to liquid form in the presence of the big chill from the nitrogen. It's a worry with liquid nitrogen-filled cold traps used to capture solvents from vacuum lines and the like. Can get an interesting mix of solvent and oxygen that way. Does anyone know of any other context where oxygen build-up occurs with liquid nitrogen, or for that matter, of a way to prevent the formation of liquid oxygen in the above traps? thanks, Don ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Donald Abramowitz, CIH Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College 101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081 Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564 Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837 e-mail: dabramo1@swarthmore.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:30:56 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike hinz Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Because oxygen condenses at a higher temperature than nitrogen one can selectively pull oxygen out of the air. LOX has been found to drip off of pipes used to transport LN2 so, for example, LOX may drip onto asphalt on a hot day placing a lot of oxidizer next to a fuel. The key to using cold traps is to use dry ice/acetone or whatever as long as you stay above the condensation temp for O2. Mike Hinz Chemistry Dept. Washington State University At 04:03 PM 1/7/99 -0500, you wrote: >>>One of the hazards listed on the MSDS is the possibility of oxygen >>>build up that can be ignited by a spark... > >A mechanism I know of for oxygen build-up is the condensation of oxygen >from the air to liquid form in the presence of the big chill from the >nitrogen. It's a worry with liquid nitrogen-filled cold traps used to >capture solvents from vacuum lines and the like. Can get an interesting >mix of solvent and oxygen that way. > >Does anyone know of any other context where oxygen build-up occurs with >liquid nitrogen, or for that matter, of a way to prevent the formation of >liquid oxygen in the above traps? > > thanks, > Don > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Donald Abramowitz, CIH > Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer > > Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College > 101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue > Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081 > >Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564 >Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837 >e-mail: dabramo1@swarthmore.edu > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:51:09 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ray Campbell Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage In-Reply-To: <199901072130.NAA09822@cheetah.it.wsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You will also get a very rapid and interesting reaction if you drop an object on the asphalt. Ray Campbell REA CCHO 310-257-1080 At 01:30 PM 1/7/99 -0800, you wrote: >Because oxygen condenses at a higher temperature than nitrogen one can >selectively pull oxygen out of the air. LOX has been found to drip off of >pipes used to transport LN2 so, for example, LOX may drip onto asphalt on a >hot day placing a lot of oxidizer next to a fuel. > The key to using cold traps is to use dry ice/acetone or whatever as >long as you stay above the condensation temp for O2. > >Mike Hinz >Chemistry Dept. >Washington State University > >At 04:03 PM 1/7/99 -0500, you wrote: >>>>One of the hazards listed on the MSDS is the possibility of oxygen >>>>build up that can be ignited by a spark... >> >>A mechanism I know of for oxygen build-up is the condensation of oxygen >>from the air to liquid form in the presence of the big chill from the >>nitrogen. It's a worry with liquid nitrogen-filled cold traps used to >>capture solvents from vacuum lines and the like. Can get an interesting >>mix of solvent and oxygen that way. >> >>Does anyone know of any other context where oxygen build-up occurs with >>liquid nitrogen, or for that matter, of a way to prevent the formation of >>liquid oxygen in the above traps? >> >> thanks, >> Don >> >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Donald Abramowitz, CIH >> Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer >> >> Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College >> 101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue >> Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081 >> >>Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564 >>Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837 >>e-mail: dabramo1@swarthmore.edu >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:41:54 +1300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Tony Haggerty Subject: Re: Toxicity Data MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm no biochemist Jim but the end result can be fatal. All poisons kill by different mechanisms and my point is that the different sensitivities need to be borne in mind. You could say that LD 50s are of no value at all if you are a "canary" Cheers Tony PS Can someone tell me why the question on the safety of bulk storage in 10,000 litre tanks of Nitrogen has come down to how to carry a Dewar Flask?? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:52:56 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Hiram Patterson Subject: Cyanide Antidote Lists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have a question regarding the effectiveness of amyl nitrate for treating cyanide poisoning. In my early military years, in order to treat soldiers exposed to blood agents, you broke open ampoules of amyl nitrate and placed them inside the soldier's gas mask. However this is now discontinued. This were either safety concerns or else it was ineffective treatment. Any ideas of effectiveness amyl nitrate in the cyanide treatment kits? Hiram Patterson Baylor College of Dentistry, Dallas ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:40:15 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bill Schultz Subject: Re[2]: cyanide antidote kits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think this issue of antidote availability and use is heading towards some dangerous ground. Is administering and antidote first aid or does it constitute medical treatment? Is there any harm that can be caused by administering the antidote? With the speed of response to most emergency situations by trained paramedics, who usually have radio contact with a hospital emergency room, I feel the use of antidotes should be strictly a medical decision. A synonym for Acetonitrile is Methyl Cyanide. I was involved in the clean up of an acetonitrile spill (approximately 1 gallon) in a laboratory. One of the concerns of the paramedics on scene was that cyanide poisoning is a possible effect of exposure that may not show up for six to eight hours. For this reason the scene commander would not let any of the personnel who were potentially exposed leave the scene without clearance from a physician. Bill Schultz USAMRIID ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: cyanide antidote kits Author: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List at Internet-Mail Date: 1/7/99 11:34 AM How much are amyl nitrate inhalants? One of the dangers listed on the MSDS for Acetonitrile is cyanide poisoning. Would it be prudent to have these inhalants where significant quantities of Acetonitrile are used? Do any other companies using Acetonitrile have these inhalants? Thanks! Helen -----Original Message----- From: Mike hinz [SMTP:mhinz@WSU.EDU] Sent: Thursday, January 07, 1999 10:44 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: cyanide antidote kits We offer amyl nitrite inhalants as an optional addition to the first aid kits in those labs using cyanides. First we checked with the emergency room of the hospital to verify that they were prepared to handle cases of cyanide intoxication. Next we got approval from campus medical personnel to use the amyl nitrite as a first aid measure. We get the inhalants through the hospital pharmacy. We include information on first aid for cyanide exposure in our departmental first aid and safety courses and provide a procedure card to be placed in the first aid kit with the inhalants. Two important items on the procedure card are -inform medical personnel of the intoxicating agent and -inform them that amyl nitrite treatment was used. Hope this is of help. Mike Hinz Chemistry Dept. Washington State University At 10:30 AM 1/7/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Folks- > >I'm looking into the possibility of buying a cyanide antidote kit for a lab >that will be using K cyanide. Any recommendations for vendors? Does >anyone know if the antidote must be administered by medical personnel, or >is it OK for non-medical personnel to give an antidote in an emergency >situation? > >Thanks! > >Dorian McMillan, Lab Manager >Department of Biology >College of Charleston >Charleston, SC 29424 >McMillanD@CofC.edu >843-953-4847 > >*Opinions are my own, not my employer's* > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:31:27 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Teresa Robertson Organization: CSU Bakersfield Subject: Re: Toxicity Data Comments: cc: trobertson@csubak.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu,.internet writes: >PS Can someone tell me why the question on the safety of bulk storage in >10,000 litre tanks of Nitrogen has come down to how to carry a Dewar >Flask?? This is not the first time there has been commentary on the side-tracking of our discussions. I think its great one topic branches into others! You all are so knowledgeable, with such diverse backgrounds, I'm learning lots! Teresa ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:01:22 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike hinz Subject: Re: Cyanide Antidote Lists Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I expect the practice was discontinued due to the toxicity of the amyl nitrite. The treatment is only to be used as a lifesaving measure in cases of acute cyanide intoxication, (the victim knocked down by the cyanide). Here is the treatment mechanism as I understand it. The nitrite converts blood hemoglobin to methemoglobin, reducing the blood's ability to carry HCN or CN-, thus keeping the cyanide from interfering with the transport of O2 into nerve cells. The methemoglobin carries much less O2 than normal hemoglobin hence the toxicity of nitrite. This type of first aid treatment should not be used unless approved by your physician or medical committee. Why use it at all? Because any treatment for acute cyanide intoxication not received in the first half hour is probably too late. Mike Hinz Chemistry Dept. Washington State University At 03:52 PM 1/7/99 -0600, you wrote: >I have a question regarding the effectiveness of amyl nitrate for treating >cyanide poisoning. In my early military years, in order to treat soldiers >exposed to blood agents, you broke open ampoules of amyl nitrate and placed >them inside the soldier's gas mask. However this is now discontinued. This >were either safety concerns or else it was ineffective treatment. Any ideas >of effectiveness amyl nitrate in the cyanide treatment kits? > >Hiram Patterson >Baylor College of Dentistry, Dallas > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:06:20 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Nick Spare Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The main problems with LOX in LN2 cold-traps occurs if the (vacuum) system is vented to air prior to removal of the coolant, thus condensing oxygen in the trap (O2 liquefies at a higher temp. than N2). A Schlenk line allows the operator to 1) back-fill the system with N2, 2) turn off the pump, 3) remove the coolant container from the trap, 4) remove the trap after warming to ambient temp. 5) recover or dispose of the contents. As to how to deal with LOX once it has condensed in a trap, I would like to hear suggestions. -----Original Message----- From: Don Abramowitz To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Date: Thursday, January 07, 1999 1:04 PM Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage >>>One of the hazards listed on the MSDS is the possibility of oxygen >>>build up that can be ignited by a spark... > >A mechanism I know of for oxygen build-up is the condensation of oxygen >from the air to liquid form in the presence of the big chill from the >nitrogen. It's a worry with liquid nitrogen-filled cold traps used to >capture solvents from vacuum lines and the like. Can get an interesting >mix of solvent and oxygen that way. > >Does anyone know of any other context where oxygen build-up occurs with >liquid nitrogen, or for that matter, of a way to prevent the formation of >liquid oxygen in the above traps? > > thanks, > Don > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ > Donald Abramowitz, CIH > Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer > > Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College > 101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue > Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081 > >Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564 >Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837 >e-mail: dabramo1@swarthmore.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:42:47 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Dr. Linda A. Swihart" Subject: Re: Liquid Nitrogen Storage In-Reply-To: <011e01be3a93$6898cb00$8828400c@nick> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >The main problems with LOX in LN2 cold-traps occurs if the (vacuum) system >is vented to air prior to removal of the coolant, thus condensing oxygen in >the trap (O2 liquefies at a higher temp. than N2). A Schlenk line allows >the operator to 1) back-fill the system with N2, 2) turn off the pump, 3) >remove the coolant container from the trap, 4) remove the trap after warming >to ambient temp. 5) recover or dispose of the contents. > >As to how to deal with LOX once it has condensed in a trap, I would like to >hear suggestions. This is not a suggestion, just a story. When I was a first-year grad student I let it happen. It was the first time I'd used N2 for the pump trap, and after emptying the trap I put it back in the Dewar full of N2 and left for the night. Sure I knew the relative boiling points of N2 and O2 but who's thinking about that?! It didn't even occur to me what had happenned when first thing in the morning I noticed that the (rather large) cold finger trap on my vacuum pump was half full of colorless liquid, and I was puzzled and concerned. A group member happened into my lab at about the time I discovered this mystery and said "(choice expletives deleted) Linda! It's oxygen you fool!" I think I dumped the nitrogen and carefully put the cold trap back into the Dewar. Or maybe I just carefully set it back down into the nitrogen. I left for the day. No one would go into the lab (except the janitor, thinking back) because it was a "one-man" lab, belonged to me alone, and the only other grad student in our group was the one who had informed me of my folly, so *he* wasn't likely to be mooching any clean glassware in there while I was gone. N2 and O2 were all gone the next morning. I never did it again, of course. What I want to know is how many guardian angels it takes to prevent all the deaths, dismemberments, and property damages that AREN'T caused by the idiotic things graduate students do to cause them? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:49:29 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: Re[2]: cyanide antidote kits In-Reply-To: <9901079157.AA915741821@ftdetrck-ccmail.army.mil> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If quick acting HCN is involved then I wouldn't want to wait even a few minutes for emergency response. An experienced researcher who worked with HCN often kept the amyl nitrate fastened to his lab coat, for quick self administration. He felt, rightly or wrongly, that he had less than a minute to react. Methyl cyanide reacts more slowly, and the cyanide salts probably fast, but a little slower than HCN. Now do you want to continue the debate about first aid vs medical treatment? Actually KCN crystals used to be held in the dry hand safely enough. Now don't try that anymore, children. Contact with stomach acid would not be good. I imagine the quickest route of administration of CN- would be inhalation. That is usually the case. Could harm be caused by amyl nitrate if not needed; yes, but less harm than the lack of it if it is needed. Maybe a rule should be written into the CHO plan that anyone working with an experiment that might use or generate HCN should notify his co-workers and/or security, and have the amyl nitrate nearby, and in addition post a notice on the lab door. That makes more sense to me than depending on transport to an ER in time. All this necessary stuff about checking with your medical provider -- I'm very suspicious of. Some 20+ years ago when I manned the night or graveyard shifts alone in a clinical toxicology;lab I spent untold times instructing ER physicians in basic toxicology on one hand, while injecting the GLC with the other. I had to teach them basic concepts of toxicology, lay out metabolic;pathways, look up half life of active metabolite, suggested treatments and so forth. I'm not sure today's young doctors are any more informed in this field. So if you ask the doctor's advice, find a way to give them good solid references first (and this is not always or even often the MSDS.) For some of them their egos can be very fragile. (Idea, get a hospital pharmacist to intervene in the discussion--they've had much of this education). The advice in the last few sentences or so is even more important if HF is the problem. You have to be darn insistent here on the correct course of action. Excuse me while I put away the soap box. Mary Ann At 03:40 PM 1/7/99 -0500, you wrote: > I think this issue of antidote availability and use is heading towards some > dangerous ground. Is administering and antidote first aid or does it > constitute medical treatment? Is there any harm that can be caused by > administering the antidote? > > With the speed of response to most emergency situations by trained paramedics, > who usually have radio contact with a hospital emergency room, I feel the use > of antidotes should be strictly a medical decision. > > A synonym for Acetonitrile is Methyl Cyanide. I was involved in the clean up > of an acetonitrile spill (approximately 1 gallon) in a laboratory. One of the > concerns of the paramedics on scene was that cyanide poisoning is a possible > effect of exposure that may not show up for six to eight hours. For this > reason the scene commander would not let any of the personnel who were > potentially exposed leave the scene without clearance from a physician. > > Bill Schultz > USAMRIID > Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority Past DivCHAS Chair, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:33:39 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Ahler Subject: Toxicity Data - long message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="Toxicity" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It's happened again. A key question on the list has precipitated yet another lengthy response from me. I get the feeling that many list readers/writers are a little uncomfortable with how all this CHO stuff is supposed to work and would enjoy hearing how others are doing it. So, here goes... Concerning the apparent variability of toxicity data ( why the oral-rat LD50 is higher than the skin-rabbit LD50 for a given chemical): I can point to two reasons why toxicity data sometimes appears to be random and contradictory ( Someone please tell me if this gets more opaque as I go along.) 1. Although they are all mammals (mostly), various laboratory animals have both specific similarities and specific *differences* in their biochemistry. A dose of toxin in a rabbit may have a greater or lesser effect than the same dose of that toxin in a rat, dog, cat, mouse... There may also be differences in toxic effects between two routes of exposure ( oral vs. skin for example) for the same toxin in the same animal. When you read a list of toxicity data using a variety of animals and routes of exposure for a given chemical you should expect some variability in the numbers since the detector - the indicator of the endpoint - is a biological system. Life is not a physical constant nor an engineered marvel. It is highly individualistic and responds to very subtle conditions in the environment, even in a very carefully controlled one. The short answer would probably be that toxicity is not a chemical characteristic, it is a biological one. 2. Which brings me to number 2. Toxicity data is highly empirical. It's tempting, I know, to hope for toxicity data to look like physical constants ( density, flash point, solubility, etc.), but these constant numbers are based on chemical and physical interactions on a molecular level. There is no complicating *life* involved in the experiment that yields these numbers . However, the toxicity data collected in RTECS and transplanted to many other references are actually the calculated results reported by authors who have run many lab experiments using animal behavior as the quantifying agents. Each LD50 and TCLO is just as valid ( with caveats) as the next. Each one is exactly what the PI found ( calculated) at the end of the experiment. Even two experiments using the same animal and route ( oral-rat is popular) can, and often do, quote different LD50's for the same toxin. That's life. So, why are all these animal toxicity studies undertaken anyway? Those that support (pay for) animal studies are not driven by the desire to find the number of rats that will die from tetraphenylcyclopentadieneone next week. They want to know how many HUMANS will die ( or get sick, actually) from exposure to tetraphenylcyclopentadienone and at what level of exposure this is likely to happen. Laboratory rats are used instead of laboratory humans because the rats are cheap and lack a strong lobby ( actually not a facetious claim). Certain strains of rats ( they are bred specifically for this) have decent similarities in biochemistry to humans, and are satisfactorily prolific. The same is approximately true for mice and rabbits. There may be others I'm forgetting. Orl-rat LD50 is a useful toxicity comparison between compounds. Using the same animal, same route, same conditions allows for a general comparative determination to be made about the toxicities of several chemicals. Since the orl-rat LD50 data is so common ( for the reasons mentioned above) comparative toxicities for 'millions' of chemicals can be determined. When a more specific kind of toxicity determination is sought, a different animal might be selected. I have heard, for example, that rabbit skin behaves very much like human skin in toxicity studies where skin absorption or skin effects are important issues. The blood chemistry of another animal ( a certain strain of rats, I think) is remarkably similar to human blood chemistry. There is also a good surrogate for the human eye ... and so on. Yes, I have seen many references such as orl-hmn LCLo, references to human data. These tend to be epidemiological ( someone tracking a large group of industrial workers - think vinyl chloride or asbestos), or military (think whatever you like), or from 1930's and 1940's publications from Eastern Europe ( I don't know what to think). My best advice is to use toxicity data as a ball park indicator of a hazard due to toxicity. I actually have a longer version of this advice, but it looks a lot like the words in Prudent Practices, and this message may be wearing your patience thin by this time. So, where are the boundaries for extremely toxic, very toxic, a little toxic, etc.etc.? I think the numerical quotations in Prudent Practices are the best I have seen. Use them as ball park indicators. Orl-rat LD50 = 45 mg/kg is the same as orl-rat LD50 = 55 mg/kg to my thinking. I would also advise strict observation of air contaminant concentration limits specified by your State-OSHA, Fed-OSHA and ACGIH - in that order. For those chemicals which have one, specify a PEL limit which will define a Particularly Hazardous Substance in your CHP. 10 ppm sounds good to me. Be aware that the question, "Is this stuff bad for me to breathe?" has an answer that is both biochemical and legal. There will be exceptions to controlled areas and handling requirements for specific chemicals that you may wish to identify in your own CHP's. Mercury metal comes to mind. It has a very low PEL but still may not require a controlled area for most uses due to its very low vapor pressure at ambient temperatures. I think most CHO's will find that the chemicals they are asked to evaluate will be sufficiently distant from the 50 mg/kg borderline (above or below) to give advice confidently. Only a few chemicals will hover around that number to cause some soul searching and hair pulling to decide on a protocol. To answer the specific question: "What to do about saccharin and mineral oil?": This is how I would do it. Saccharin toxicity data shows lab animals getting doses about equal to their own body weight (megadose) to get the cancer to appear. A typical cancer-result toxicity citation reads orl-rat TDLo: 1092 grams/kg /1Y-C: CAR How long does it take to feed a 1 kg rat 1092 grams of saccharin? I don't know, but I do understand the rationale for performing such feats. Oral LD50 citations run between 14,000 and 17,000 mg/kg for saccharin. If the protocol in question in your procedure involves dumping 50 pound bags of powdered saccharin, maybe a controlled area and some good engineering and administrative controls are called for. Otherwise, the handling of saccharin can be as controlled as the handling of benzoic acid. Mineral Oil toxicity data shows lab animals getting large doses ( similar to saccharine) using the same route and animal, ipr-mus ( intraperitoneal - mouse). All the cancers were equivocal (ETA = "Equivocal Tumorigenic Agent"). All the ETA results were from megadose studies - from 14 to 330 grams/kg. A tumor result is usually listed as "equivocal" (ETA) if the author of the article ( PI usually) makes no mention of a control group in his work. The one human toxicity citation for mineral oil reads ihl-man TCLo:5 mg/m3/5Y-I: CAR, GIT, TER JOCMA7 23,333,81. The text in Sax which accompanies the mineral oil information states, "A human carcinogen by inhalation which produces gastrointestinal tumors. A human teratogen by inhalation which causes testicular tumors in the fetus." This is where the CAR, GIT, and TER come from. The work that is cited for this TCLo is from the Journal of Occupational Medicine appearing in 1959. If the protocol calls for the spraying of generous quantities of mineral or boiling it in large open containers, maybe a controlled area and some good engineering and administrative controls are called for. No boiling point listing is readily available, but heating much above 400 deg. F involves a fire hazard ( flash pt. = 444 F.) Maybe a hot oil bath for organic reactions might not be a good idea at higher temperatures in some situations. There are other ways to heat a round bottom flask. Otherwise the handling of mineral oil can be almost unfettered at room temperature. Lab Safety conference at CSU Long Beach tomorrow. See you there. Thanks. Michael Ahler, CHO Risk Management Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, California ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:06:25 EST Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Toxicity Data Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-01-07 12:31:12 EST, you write: << The slightly longer answer is; an allergic reaction, also known as a sensitization reaction requires prior exposure to the causal agent or a structurally similar substance. Subsequent exposure triggers an immune response. Allergic responses do not typically exhibit the dose-response curve seen with other toxic agents. A hypersensitivity, on the other hand, may be thought of as an example of the low end of the dose-response curve. >> This was my understanding. So, when it was said earlier..... >When looking at toxicology you must compare like with like, then assess the > most likely route of entry and then always remember what an epidemiologist > here called the "Canaries of Society". i.e. Those people who are sensitive > to minute amounts of a substance. This is often called an allergy but is in > fact a toxic reaction. >> Is it correct to refer to this is an allergy? Isn't it more likely a hypersensitive response? ..... jim ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:14:59 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Sharyn Bake Subject: Re: Toxicity Data MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Any small proportion of a population that exhibits a response to a particular toxicant at levels much lower than the dose which elicits a respnse for the majority of the same population is, in fact, generally referred to as hypersensitive or as having untoward reaction. Such sensitivity is not referred to as an allergy. And having and "allergy" is not the same as simply showing a response to a specific dose. Sharyn Baker > ---------- > From: Labsafe@AOL.COM > Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List > Sent: Thursday, January 7, 1999 9:06 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: Toxicity Data > > In a message dated 99-01-07 12:31:12 EST, you write: > > << The slightly longer answer is; an allergic reaction, also known as a > sensitization reaction requires prior exposure to the causal agent or a > structurally similar substance. Subsequent exposure triggers an immune > response. Allergic responses do not typically exhibit the dose-response > curve seen with other toxic agents. A hypersensitivity, on the other > hand, > may be thought of as an example of the low end of the dose-response > curve. > >> > > This was my understanding. So, when it was said earlier..... > > >When looking at toxicology you must compare like with like, then assess > the > > most likely route of entry and then always remember what an > epidemiologist > > here called the "Canaries of Society". i.e. Those people who are > sensitive > > to minute amounts of a substance. This is often called an allergy but > is in > > fact a toxic reaction. >> > > Is it correct to refer to this is an allergy? Isn't it more likely a > hypersensitive response? ..... jim > > ***************************************************** > James A. Kaufman, President > The Laboratory Safety Workshop > 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 > 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com > Safety in Science Education > > The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational > organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and > important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory > Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar > schedule, and membership information are available on request. > > The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. > Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG > > ********************************************************************** > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:19:14 +1300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Tony Haggerty Subject: Re: Toxicity Data MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks guys for the lesson in differences between allergies, hypersensitivity and toxicity. I sorta new the difference but in my line of work I have to reduce things to simple terms for simple people, so I tend to do it automatically. I forgot I was dealing with the intelligentia here *grin* Going back to the original query, I am still perturbed that the original example was trying to compare LC figures with LD figures and nobody else seems to be addressing that. To ignore it is dangerous if you are dealing with an emergency. Cheers Tony ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 02:34:21 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: Toxicity Data In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:06 PM 1/7/99 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 99-01-07 12:31:12 EST, you write: > ><< The slightly longer answer is; an allergic reaction, also known as a > sensitization reaction requires prior exposure to the causal agent or a > structurally similar substance. Subsequent exposure triggers an immune > response. Allergic responses do not typically exhibit the dose-response > curve seen with other toxic agents. A hypersensitivity, on the other hand, > may be thought of as an example of the low end of the dose-response curve. >>> > >This was my understanding. So, when it was said earlier..... Mine also, Jim. > >>When looking at toxicology you must compare like with like, then assess the >> most likely route of entry and then always remember what an epidemiologist >> here called the "Canaries of Society". i.e. Those people who are sensitive >> to minute amounts of a substance. This is often called an allergy but is in >> fact a toxic reaction. >> > >Is it correct to refer to this is an allergy? Isn't it more likely a >hypersensitive response? ..... jim Again I agree, Jim. Then there is the 3rd atypical response: MCS, or multiple chemical sensitivity, where after a triggering exposure, such as extreme overexposure to some chemical, as being too close to a tank car spill, a sensitivity develops to a host of often unrelated chemicals. Said sensitivity may at times be incapacitating. The mechanism seems to lie within the primitive areas of the brain, rather than in the blood as with a allergic response. Hypersensitivity I suppose would have a similar mechanism to the usual toxic response. Mary Ann > > ***************************************************** > James A. Kaufman, President > The Laboratory Safety Workshop > 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 > 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com > Safety in Science Education > >The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational >organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and >important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory >Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar >schedule, and membership information are available on request. > > The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. > Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG > ********************************************************************** > Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority Past DivCHAS Chair, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:41:33 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: Cyanide Antidote Lists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was a Chemical Warfare specialist in the Army in the early 60s. amyl nitrate was for HCN, at that time still considered a potential war gas. probably now the thinking is there are better agents, such as GB and VX and what ever since, which are nerve agents. antidote for them, if memory serves, was atropine injection. When I worked with HCN I industry, up to 10 years ago, amyl nitrate was still considered effective. I had a tour of the duPont Memphis plant, where HCN was produced, and they said the amyl nitrate followed by thiosulfte injection had been used to rescue several people quite effectively. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Hiram Patterson To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Thursday, January 07, 1999 16:57 Subject: Cyanide Antidote Lists >I have a question regarding the effectiveness of amyl nitrate for treating >cyanide poisoning. In my early military years, in order to treat soldiers >exposed to blood agents, you broke open ampoules of amyl nitrate and placed >them inside the soldier's gas mask. However this is now discontinued. This >were either safety concerns or else it was ineffective treatment. Any ideas >of effectiveness amyl nitrate in the cyanide treatment kits? > >Hiram Patterson >Baylor College of Dentistry, Dallas > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 08:01:43 -0600 Reply-To: khmorgan@UDel.Edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Kelly Morgan Subject: HF-Calcium Gluconate Gel-Pharmascience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe this topic has been discussed in the past, but I am not sure if anyone has ever asked about suppliers of calcium gluconate gel. I am in the process of developing an SOP for using HF and decided to purchase the calcium gluconate gel from Pharmascience. When I contacted them, I was told I could no longer purchase the gel without buying some wash that goes with it. Has anyone else had this same experience with them? Those of you who already have the gel, did they send you information that you now need to purchase the wash? Has anyone heard that the gel does not work without the wash? Purchasing the wash just about doubles the cost. I would also be interested in how many of you actually use Pharmascience or have a prescription for the gel. You can respond to the list or privately to khmorgan@udel.edu. Thank you , Kelly Morgan Chemical Hygiene Officer University of Delaware ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 08:05:13 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Robert N. Nelson" Subject: Re: Toxicity Data In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I would like to congratulate Michael Ahler on a really superb summary of the problems associated with this type of data. I have not heard as good a one since talking with my father, the late Dr. Norton Nelson, a biochemist who headed the Institute of Environmental Medicine at NY Univ. for many years. Michael's response makes clear many of the salient points which we as safety people or chemists need to be aware of: 1. The dose makes the poison - precautions needed when filling 50 pound sacks of sugar from containers holding several tons are quite different from those needed when spooning it into our coffee cup. 2. One species frequently reacts very differently to another to the same material, frequently because it is the metabolites which are the actual toxin. Thus different metabolic pathways can mean for example that tylenol will kill your cat at the same mg/kg dose level that it will bring down your child's fever. 3. In order to get results with a reasonable number of experimental animals, researchers frequently have to use relatively high doses and extrapolate to lower dose levels. Lifetime feeding experiments on reasonably large numbers of rats or mice were pioneered by my father's lab at NYU. They allowed use of longer doses and longer exposure times an important consideration for chronic toxins or many carcinogens. Thanks again Michael for a great posting. Bob Nelson (Ph.D. chemist, former department safety officer) Robert N. Nelson, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Chemistry, Chem. Dept. Georgia Southern Univ. P.O.B. 8064, Statesboro, GA 30460-8064 912-681-5675 (voice) 912-681-0699 (fax) ********* The opinions expressed here are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:30:39 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bill Schultz Subject: Cyanide and dose response MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think the two issues currently on the discussion list concerning dose response and antidote for cyanide are closely related. I enjoy the tales of things done in the past and personal experiences. I fortunately have lived long enough to also have many tales of things done in the past that no one would do today and I hope I do not offend anyone with the following statements. There may be situations where the potential for exposure to cyanide is great enough to warrant administering of an antidote immediately. However, I do not believe that CHOs'should be involved in these situations. We should only be involved in the laboratory use of chemicals. We should not be involved in military preparedness or commercial production or manufacturing. With the use of microchemistry and proper engineering controls the dose recieved in the event of an accident should not be large enough to justify the immediate administration of an antidote without medical approval. As for using cyanide in such a manner that you have to attach the antidote to your lab coat, something is really wrong. The quantity of the hazardous chemical should be reduced to the smallest quantity possible to perform the procedure. If the smallest quanity possible still presents a hazard when the procedure is performed in a chemical fume hood then the procedure should only be performed in a glove box. That really is what being a CHO is about, minimizing the possibility of exposure or reducing the possible exposure to an acceptable or "safe" level. It is my opinion that using microchemistry and proper engineering controls the need for immediate administration of antidotes can be eliminated in chemical laboratories. Bill Schultz USAMRIID ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:24:18 +0000 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Herman curtis Subject: antidotes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT A lot of the replies to the question of administering an antidote seem to have a high 'Protect Your Rear' factor. I hope that if I am ever overcome by cyanide there will be someone near who is more concerned with saving a life than with protecting his own backside. What is the big deal anyway? If someone is overcome by cyanide, break the amyl nitrite vial! Maybe the guy just fainted because his experiment worked. If so, he'll get a little high and probably have a headache. Someone wrote: It is my opinion that using microchemistry and proper engineering controls the need for immediate administration of antidotes can be eliminated in chemical laboratories. This reminded me of a ship they built once. It wasn't to be sinkable so they didn't need a lot of lifeboats. I think they made a movie about it. Herman Curtis Department of Physical Science Cameron University 2800 W Gore Blvd Lawton, OK 73505 hermanc@cameron.edu (580)591-8007 ,(580)581-2323 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:47:48 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mark Smith Subject: Re: Toxicity Data In-Reply-To: <003501be3ace$d12b4360$f6d2fea9@j623hqv7a394> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Going back to the original query, I am still perturbed that the original >example was trying to compare LC figures with LD figures and nobody else >seems to be addressing that. To ignore it is dangerous if you are dealing >with an emergency. >Cheers >Tony The original message (generated by myself) was comparing the two LD50s (oral, rat and skin, rabbit) and rationalizing the differences between them. The LC data was there just as an additional reference. ms *************************************** MARK SMITH HENDRIX COLLEGE CHEMISTRY LABORATORY COORDINATOR CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER NRCC-CHO *************************************** 1600 Washington Ave Conway, AR 72032 501-450-3812 Fax : 501-450-3829 *************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 08:54:19 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike hinz Subject: Re: Toxicity Data Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If anyone can cite credible evidence that "multiple chemical sensitivity" is other than an anxiety phenomenon, I'd like to know about it. Mike Hinz Chemistry Dept. Washington State University Then there is the 3rd atypical response: MCS, or >multiple chemical sensitivity, where after a triggering exposure, such as >extreme overexposure to some chemical, as being too close to a tank car >spill, a sensitivity develops to a host of often unrelated chemicals. Said >sensitivity may at times be incapacitating. The mechanism seems to lie >within the primitive areas of the brain, rather than in the blood as with a >allergic response. Hypersensitivity I suppose would have a similar >mechanism to the usual toxic response. > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:54:55 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Wight, Hugh" Subject: Re: Cyanide and dose response MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Yes, I agree. Unfortunately even though we (for example) are a small company, we nearly qualify as an LQG for our acetonitrile waste stream. There are instances in our particular manufacturing process where we deliver quanitities of ACN at high pressures. In a very short period of time, a manufacturing technician could be sprayed with enough ACN to cause an absorptive cyanosis. Our contracted occupational health MD recommended antidote kits due to the nature of our hazards. My only kernel to add to this discussion is that it really is a case-by-case risk analysis and that no preparations should be made without the input (and training) from your emergency medical response teams. Hugh Wight Today I'm a Plant Engineer (tomorrow I'll be back to being the Safety Officer) Aquila Biopharmaceuticals Framingham MA (508) 766-2733 hwight@aquilabio.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Schultz [SMTP:william_schultz@DETRICK.ARMY.MIL] > Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 9:31 AM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Cyanide and dose response > > I think the two issues currently on the discussion list concerning > dose > response and antidote for cyanide are closely related. > > I enjoy the tales of things done in the past and personal > experiences. I > fortunately have lived long enough to also have many tales of things > done in > the past that no one would do today and I hope I do not offend anyone > with the > following statements. > > There may be situations where the potential for exposure to cyanide > is great > enough to warrant administering of an antidote immediately. However, > I do not > believe that CHOs'should be involved in these situations. We should > only be > involved in the laboratory use of chemicals. We should not be > involved in > military preparedness or commercial production or manufacturing. > > With the use of microchemistry and proper engineering controls the > dose > recieved in the event of an accident should not be large enough to > justify the > immediate administration of an antidote without medical approval. > > As for using cyanide in such a manner that you have to attach the > antidote to > your lab coat, something is really wrong. The quantity of the > hazardous > chemical should be reduced to the smallest quantity possible to > perform the > procedure. If the smallest quanity possible still presents a hazard > when the > procedure is performed in a chemical fume hood then the procedure > should only > be performed in a glove box. That really is what being a CHO is > about, > minimizing the possibility of exposure or reducing the possible > exposure to an > acceptable or "safe" level. > > It is my opinion that using microchemistry and proper engineering > controls the > need for immediate administration of antidotes can be eliminated in > chemical > laboratories. > > Bill Schultz > USAMRIID ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:41:32 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Helen B. Gerhard" Subject: Re: Cyanide and dose response MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If your only job is CHO, or if you're a laboratory worker with the title then "We should only be involved in the laboratory use of chemicals. We should not be involved in military preparedness or commercial production or manufacturing." May be an accurate statement. However, my job as Sr. Quality/Safety/Environment Specialist takes me into the realm of commercial production/manufacturing. I am responsible for the safety of all personnel using chemicals on site in addition to QA and chemical waste disposal. CHO is only one of the areas that I address. We have a Certified Emergency Medical Technician on site. The use of the inhalants Would be part of her job (and her emergency medical response team). However, If I didn't bring the issue up as a CHO for the decision to be made, then I feel I would Not be doing the job I should be. I agree that the use of acetonitrile is unlikely to cause cyanosis as long as people are Not grossly misusing the chemical. However, the possibility is there even if it is small. I would rather have an antidote available that is never used then have someone seriously Injured or dead because I didn't think it was necessary. Thanks! Helen -----Original Message----- From: Bill Schultz [SMTP:william_schultz@DETRICK.ARMY.MIL] Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 7:31 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Cyanide and dose response I think the two issues currently on the discussion list concerning dose response and antidote for cyanide are closely related. I enjoy the tales of things done in the past and personal experiences. I fortunately have lived long enough to also have many tales of things done in the past that no one would do today and I hope I do not offend anyone with the following statements. There may be situations where the potential for exposure to cyanide is great enough to warrant administering of an antidote immediately. However, I do not believe that CHOs'should be involved in these situations. We should only be involved in the laboratory use of chemicals. We should not be involved in military preparedness or commercial production or manufacturing. With the use of microchemistry and proper engineering controls the dose recieved in the event of an accident should not be large enough to justify the immediate administration of an antidote without medical approval. As for using cyanide in such a manner that you have to attach the antidote to your lab coat, something is really wrong. The quantity of the hazardous chemical should be reduced to the smallest quantity possible to perform the procedure. If the smallest quanity possible still presents a hazard when the procedure is performed in a chemical fume hood then the procedure should only be performed in a glove box. That really is what being a CHO is about, minimizing the possibility of exposure or reducing the possible exposure to an acceptable or "safe" level. It is my opinion that using microchemistry and proper engineering controls the need for immediate administration of antidotes can be eliminated in chemical laboratories. Bill Schultz USAMRIID ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:16:33 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: Toxicity Data In-Reply-To: <199901081654.IAA03355@cheetah.it.wsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:54 AM 1/8/99 -0800, you wrote: >If anyone can cite credible evidence that "multiple chemical sensitivity" is >other than an anxiety phenomenon, I'd like to know about it. I've reviewed two books for Claudia Miller, MD, CIH, and Nicholas Ashford, MIT., "Chemical Exposures, Low Levels, High Stakes", Van Nostrand Rheinhold. Their extensive bibliography and their thoughtful, non dogmatic, approach to solving the problem, convince me. Many MCS patients are anxious, but it seems more likely a result rather than cause of their condition. I will grant that there are a fair number of "kooks" under the MCS umbrella, but not all are k--. I myself had a mild to moderate case of something resembling MCS decades before it hit the news. I was not particularly anxious, but I was mystified, so I began the study of industrial toxicology at Harvard extension. I did have extreme weakness-I recall trying to sand the mast on my boat, and having to rest after only a minute or so. I was anxious to get back in the lab; when I went one night (after I was feeling stronger) to help a colleague with some TLC, and almost at once the initial symptoms recurred. I thence went to work in a chemical library. >Mike Hinz >Chemistry Dept. >Washington State University > > Then there is the 3rd atypical response: MCS, or >>multiple chemical sensitivity, where after a triggering exposure, such as >>extreme overexposure to some chemical, as being too close to a tank car >>spill, a sensitivity develops to a host of often unrelated chemicals. Said >>sensitivity may at times be incapacitating. The mechanism seems to lie >>within the primitive areas of the brain, rather than in the blood as with a >>allergic response. Hypersensitivity I suppose would have a similar >>mechanism to the usual toxic response. >> >> > Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority Past DivCHAS Chair, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:38:15 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Julie J. O'Brien" Subject: Re: HF Comments: To: Kelly Morgan In-Reply-To: <36960FC6.233671AC@udel.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII While we're on the subject of HF, I noticed that a commercial for Monday night's ER episode on TNT showed a clip from the HF episode. I don't know if they're actually showing that one, but it might be worth recording on the VCR just in case. Julie O'Brien Chemist PCR, Inc. PO Box 1466 Gainesville, Fl 32606 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:40:20 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Re: Cyanide Antidote Lists In-Reply-To: <000a01be3b04$391c0c40$0100007f@BBURNS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I thought I'd try to address the combination of cyanide/antidote issues that arose last week (while I was at NEWSafety99 - good meeting). 1) What is in the kits? Complete kits have three medications: amyl nitrite caps, sodium nitrite injection, and sodium thiosulfite (I think this is the same stuff as "Stop" solution in photo developing) injection. Amyl nitrite is less common due potential for abuse. The injection solutions are in standard ampules, not autoinjectors. 1a) It's unlikely that HCN would be a military weapon, but there are plenty of terrorists out there, and HCN is easier to obtain/produce than nerve gas. The actual antidote for nerve gas (all of 'em) is the same as for organophosphate and carbamate pesticide poisoning (makes sense - this is what nerve gases are): Pralidoxime Cl (aka 2-PAM Cl) plus atropine. Atropine alone will only address some of the sypmtoms and will do nothing to work on the cause, which is acetylcholinesterase depletion. 2) What is the purpose? Cyanide is a chemical asphyxiant ("blood agent" in military chemical weapons lingo); it complexes the Fe3+ in cytochrome oxidase, thus preventing cellular respiration. The nitrites in the kit oxidize Fe2+ in hemoglobin to Fe3+, thereby binding the CN there. As someone pointed out, this creates methemoglobinemia (which is pretty neat if it's not you - the blood actually looks brown, aka "chocolate blood"). The Na2S2O3 (last item from the kit) reacts with the CN to form thiocyanate which is harmlessly excreted. 3) How effective are the kits? In my opinion, marginal. We don't carry them in our EMS system because by the time an ambulance arrives, someone with CN exposure will already be dead or will live regardless. Low doses tend to sicken, high doses tend to kill quickly. If the kit is available on-site (as it should be) and has someone who knows how to administer it, it may work. For a moderate to severe dose (inhaled or ingested), amyl nitrite alone won't cut it. 4) Who should use the kits? Trained responders! This is not something you can learn by watching TV or simply "wanting to do the right thing." Someone commented on the apparent "CYA attitude" of some of the CHOs - I think that is disingenuous and just plain wrong. The fact is, there ARE real liability concerns, and they have nothing to do with CYA. Do you want someone cutting a hole in your throat and sticking a fountain pen in (like Radar did on MASH - I still have people asking me about that when I teach CPR and first aid) because they think you're choking? How about tying a tourniquet because they think you're bleeding to death? Unfortunately, that stuff happens even when the "victim" isn't dying. What if you die anyway? Do you want the good Samaritan - who will not be protected by the law because s/he went beyond the level of previous training - to spend the next few years in court, possibly losing everything? Giving injections (especially the big ones in the kit) may not be difficult (after all, MDs can do it), but I wouldn't want my life depending on someone who's never done it and has had no training. If it's a concern, develop a TRAINED emergency response team - which many industries have. I'd still hesitate to put the kits on ambulances, but they should be available on site for EMS to use (we have protocols - we don't need to call in for permission). Okay, that's my soapbox piece. 5) How much advice can we get from our local ER? Mary Ann was right on target - don't count on much. When I was Austin EMS's Hazmat Captain, we trained the ERs. There are good medical references out there (including good FREE stuff from ATSDR). Make sure your ER, emergency response team, and EMS are informed in advance - remember - they expect YOU to be the experts on chemical exposure! Don't forget your poison control center - they're not just for emergencies! Call them for information. I'll be happy to send a list of medical references on chemical exposure to anyone who wants one. The list is one I've put together and does not constitute formal product endorsements, etc. Please request off-line and indicate if you'd prefer a fax or e-mail attachment (MS Word 6). Onward, JNR Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS College of Natural Sciences G2500 W.C. Hogg Building University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712-1199 (512) 471-6176 (O) (512) 471-4998 (F) jrubin@mail.utexas.edu "The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise specified." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:35:52 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: Cyanide Antidote Lists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Excellent comment on the issue. Thanks, Jeff. "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D Specialty Chemicals Division RUETGERS Organics Corporation 201 Struble Road State College, PA 16801 phone 814-231-9214 fax 814-238-1567 email rburns@bigfoot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:20:33 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: Toxicity Data - long message In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks to Michael for some very useful tox animal data interpretations. Somewhere along this thread is a missing factor: Bruce Ames and the Ames test which was/is said to predict mutagenicity by giving certain cell cultures (or was it bacteria?) a compound to be tested. The test is still used and referred to by gov. agencies. What is not so widely stated is that Bruce Ames (ACS meeting of 8-10 years ago) has disavowed his test. His theory as I recall it -- chromosome breaks (mutagens) happen only in rapidly dividing cells. The nature of the test is to artificially increase cell division to an unreasonable level, and thus opportunities for chromosome breaks during exposure to the tested compound. Using the "Ames test", Bruce Ames was able to induce such chromosome breaks in about half the natural products and foods he tested; about the same percentage as with "chemicals" subjected to the test. Ergo, the test is invalid, as it predicted almost half the compounds tested could cause cancer. Anyone with a better filing system than me may come to the rescue with more exact experiments and conclusion. Mary Ann At 05:33 PM 1/7/99 -0800, you wrote: >It's happened again. A key question on the list has precipitated yet >another lengthy response from me. I get the feeling that many list >readers/writers are a little uncomfortable with how all this CHO stuff >is supposed to work and would enjoy hearing how others are doing it. >So, here goes... > >Concerning the apparent variability of toxicity data ( why the oral-rat >LD50 is higher than the skin-rabbit LD50 for a given chemical): > >I can point to two reasons why toxicity data sometimes appears to be >random and contradictory >( Someone please tell me if this gets more opaque as I go along.) > >1. Although they are all mammals (mostly), various laboratory animals >have both specific similarities and specific *differences* in their >biochemistry. A dose of toxin in a rabbit may have a greater or lesser >effect than the same dose of that toxin in a rat, dog, cat, mouse... >There may also be differences in toxic effects between two routes of >exposure ( oral vs. skin for example) for the same toxin in the same >animal. When you read a list of toxicity data using a variety of >animals and routes of exposure for a given chemical you should expect >some variability in the numbers since the detector - the indicator of >the endpoint - is a biological system. Life is not a physical >constant nor an engineered marvel. It is highly individualistic and >responds to very subtle conditions in the environment, even in a very >carefully controlled one. The short answer would probably be >that toxicity is not a chemical characteristic, it is a biological one. >2. Which brings me to number 2. Toxicity data is highly empirical. >It's tempting, I know, to hope for toxicity data to look like physical >constants ( density, flash point, solubility, etc.), but these constant >numbers are based on chemical and physical interactions on a molecular >level. There is no complicating *life* involved in the experiment >that yields these numbers . However, the toxicity data collected in >RTECS and transplanted to many other references are actually the >calculated results reported by authors who have run many lab experiments >using animal behavior as the quantifying agents. Each LD50 and TCLO >is just as valid ( with caveats) as the next. Each one is exactly >what the PI found ( calculated) at the end of the experiment. Even >two experiments using the same animal and route ( oral-rat is popular) >can, and often do, quote different LD50's for the same toxin. That's >life. > >So, why are all these animal toxicity studies undertaken anyway? >Those that support (pay for) animal studies are not driven by the >desire to find the number of rats that will die from >tetraphenylcyclopentadieneone next week. They want to know how many >HUMANS will die ( or get sick, actually) from exposure to >tetraphenylcyclopentadienone and at what level of exposure this is >likely to happen. Laboratory rats are used instead of laboratory >humans because the rats are cheap and lack a strong lobby ( actually not >a facetious claim). Certain strains of rats ( they are bred >specifically for this) have decent similarities in biochemistry to >humans, and are satisfactorily prolific. The same is approximately >true for mice and rabbits. There may be others I'm forgetting. > > Orl-rat LD50 is a useful toxicity comparison between compounds. Using >the same animal, same route, same conditions allows for a general >comparative determination to be made about the toxicities of several >chemicals. Since the orl-rat LD50 data is so common ( for the reasons >mentioned above) comparative toxicities for 'millions' of chemicals can >be determined. When a more specific kind of toxicity determination >is sought, a different animal might be selected. I have heard, for >example, that rabbit skin behaves very much like human skin in toxicity >studies where skin absorption or skin effects are important issues. >The blood chemistry of another animal ( a certain strain of rats, I >think) is remarkably similar to human blood chemistry. There is also >a good surrogate for the human eye ... and so on. > >Yes, I have seen many references such as orl-hmn LCLo, references to >human data. These tend to be epidemiological ( someone tracking a >large group of industrial workers - think vinyl chloride or asbestos), >or military (think whatever you like), or from 1930's and 1940's >publications from Eastern Europe ( I don't know what to think). > >My best advice is to use toxicity data as a ball park indicator of a >hazard due to toxicity. I actually have a longer version of this >advice, but it looks a lot like the words in Prudent Practices, and this >message may be wearing your patience thin by this time. >So, where are the boundaries for extremely toxic, very toxic, a little >toxic, etc.etc.? I think the numerical quotations in Prudent Practices >are the best I have seen. Use them as ball park indicators. >Orl-rat LD50 = 45 mg/kg is the same as orl-rat LD50 = 55 mg/kg to my >thinking. >I would also advise strict observation of air contaminant concentration >limits specified by your State-OSHA, Fed-OSHA and ACGIH - in that order. > For those chemicals which have one, specify a PEL limit which will >define a Particularly Hazardous Substance in your CHP. 10 ppm sounds >good to me. Be aware that the question, "Is this stuff bad for me >to breathe?" has an answer that is both biochemical and legal. >There will be exceptions to controlled areas and handling requirements >for specific chemicals that you may wish to identify in your own CHP's. > Mercury metal comes to mind. It has a very low PEL but still may not >require a controlled area for most uses due to its very low vapor >pressure at ambient temperatures. > >I think most CHO's will find that the chemicals they are asked to >evaluate will be sufficiently distant from the 50 mg/kg borderline >(above or below) to give advice confidently. Only a few chemicals >will hover around that number to cause some soul searching and hair >pulling to decide on a protocol. > >To answer the specific question: >"What to do about saccharin and mineral oil?": >This is how I would do it. >Saccharin toxicity data shows lab animals getting doses about equal to >their own body weight (megadose) to get the cancer to appear. A >typical cancer-result toxicity citation reads orl-rat TDLo: 1092 >grams/kg /1Y-C: CAR How long does it take to feed a 1 kg rat 1092 >grams of saccharin? I don't know, but I do understand the rationale >for performing such feats. Oral LD50 citations run between 14,000 >and 17,000 mg/kg for saccharin. If the protocol in question in your >procedure involves dumping 50 pound bags of powdered saccharin, maybe a >controlled area and some good engineering and administrative controls >are called for. Otherwise, the handling of saccharin can be as >controlled as the handling of benzoic acid. > >Mineral Oil toxicity data shows lab animals getting large doses ( >similar to saccharine) using the same route and animal, ipr-mus ( >intraperitoneal - mouse). All the cancers were equivocal (ETA = >"Equivocal Tumorigenic Agent"). All the ETA results were from megadose >studies - from 14 to 330 grams/kg. A tumor result is usually listed as >"equivocal" (ETA) if the author of the article ( PI usually) makes no >mention of a control group in his work. The one human toxicity >citation for mineral oil reads ihl-man TCLo:5 mg/m3/5Y-I: CAR, GIT, TER > JOCMA7 23,333,81. The text in Sax which accompanies the >mineral oil information states, "A human carcinogen by inhalation which >produces gastrointestinal tumors. A human teratogen by inhalation >which causes testicular tumors in the fetus." This is where the >CAR, GIT, and TER come from. The work that is cited for this TCLo is >from the Journal of Occupational Medicine appearing in 1959. > > If the protocol calls for the spraying of generous quantities of >mineral or boiling it in large open containers, maybe a controlled area >and some good engineering and administrative controls are called for. >No boiling point listing is readily available, but heating much above >400 deg. F involves a fire hazard ( flash pt. = 444 F.) Maybe a hot >oil bath for organic reactions might not be a good idea at higher >temperatures in some situations. There are other ways to heat a >round bottom flask. Otherwise the handling of mineral oil can be >almost unfettered at room temperature. > >Lab Safety conference at CSU Long Beach tomorrow. >See you there. > >Thanks. > >Michael Ahler, CHO >Risk Management >Cal Poly >San Luis Obispo, California > Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority Past DivCHAS Chair, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:38:06 EST Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: New Member Introductions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi NACHO Members, I'd like to invite our new members and older members who have not yet spoken up to introduce themselves to their fellow member and indicate any special area of lab safety/CHO interest. In my own case, the 1998 news was my retirement from teaching at Curry College to spend more time working for LSW and doing some consulting work. ... jim ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:38:10 EST Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Free Student Safety Training Comments: To: Safety , nsela-l@science.coe.uwf.edu, NAOSMM@LISTSERV.RICE.EDU, dchas-l@SIU.EDU, chemlab_L@vax1.bemidji.msus.edu, chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu, CHEMCOM@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Northeastern Section of the American Chemical Society is sponsoring two, free, one-day lab safety training seminars for undergraduates and graduate students. The first will be presented this coming saturday (January 16th) at Simmons College in Boston. The second will be held at Boston College on saturday, February 13th. The seminar, training materials, refreshments, and lunch will be provided without charge. Registration/Check-in is at 8:30AM with the seminar lasting until about 4PM. Please encourage students to attend. This is a students only seminar. After a pilot program at five institutions confirmed the effectiveness of single, large dose safety training programs for students (in addition to regular pre-lab briefings), LSW has been offering these one-day student seminars at colleges and universities throughout the United States. Pilot sites included WPI, Marine Biology Laboratory, Duquesne/Carnegie Mellon, Villanova, and University of Nevada-Reno. Other participating institutions include University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth and Framingham State College. For more information about the Simmons College or Boston College seminars or hosting the seminar at your institution, please contact LSW (see below). ... jim ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:38:08 EST Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Lab Safety Seminars in Florida Comments: To: Safety , nsela-l@science.coe.uwf.edu, NAOSMM@LISTSERV.RICE.EDU, dchas-l@SIU.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Six, one-day lab safety seminars will be offered in cities throughout Florida next month. The seminars will provide an introduction to the fundamentals of laboratory safety, regularory compliance, and effective safety programs. The cities include: Pensicola (2/16), Talahassee (2/18), Jacksonville (2/20), Gainsville (2/22), Tampa (2/24), and Fort Lauderdale (2/26). For more information, contact LSW (see below). .... jim ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:52:53 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Kathleen Pelkki Subject: Re: Lurking Member Intro & Hood Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, NACHOS! I've been a lurking member for a while and so will respond to Jim's request for introduction. I am the lab technician for the biology department of a small university in mid-Michigan. We have about 8000 students and I work for 8 biology professors. I have learned much from listening to this group and value that information. Safety is not an issue that is talked much about in Biology labs. I do have a question. We are having a new science building built in the near future that our Chemistry department is moving in to. We will occupy existing spaces in our current science building with remodeling. The question came up about hoods in biology labs. We are requesting one hood and vented cabinets in each lab. In your opinions, is this enough? How many hoods do other newer, biology labs have? Thank you for any imput. Kathy Pelkki pelkki@tardis.svsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:30:30 -0500 Reply-To: lorain.county.crime.lab@lorainccc.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Lorain County Crime Lab Organization: Lorain County Crime Lab Subject: Re: Lurking Member Intro & Hood Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathleen Pelkki wrote: > > Hi, NACHOS! > > I've been a lurking member for a while and so will respond to Jim's > request for introduction. I am the lab technician for the biology > department of a small university in mid-Michigan. We have about 8000 > students and I work for 8 biology professors. I have learned much from > listening to this group and value that information. Safety is not an > issue that is talked much about in Biology labs. > > I do have a question. We are having a new science building built in the > near future that our Chemistry department is moving in to. We will > occupy existing spaces in our current science building with remodeling. > The question came up about hoods in biology labs. We are requesting one > hood and vented cabinets in each lab. In your opinions, is this > enough? How many hoods do other newer, biology labs have? > > Thank you for any imput. > Kathy Pelkki > pelkki@tardis.svsu.edu I work in a Criminalistic Laboratory. We have both a Serology and a Trace area. We work with both Chemical (LIGHT HYDROCARBONS) and Biological specimens. Therefore, we have BIOHOODs and Chemical Hoods. As to the question of space, I will say for everyone must understand that they are not interchangeable, some storage of items must exist for your tests, and that a standard 3' hood only gives you about 20" by 30" area for working (one person). Craig ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:21:19 +200 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Conrad Bosch Organization: National Centre Occupational Health Subject: Bio-hazard Fume cupboard? In-Reply-To: <369B53B4.2D8825FD@svsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Greetings! A short question to the group - What are the design specifications for a proper fume cupboard when working with bio-hazards, cyanide, pesticides ? For instance the face velocity, capture velocity, VP,SP, TP etc. Perhaps any websites worth looking into? I would appreciate any specs. Thank you in advance. Conrad Bosch Occupational Hygiene Section National Centre for Occupational Health Johannesburg South-Africa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:06:08 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ward R Phifer Subject: Re: Member Introductions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am in the process of developing an article for Chemical Health & Safety magazine entitled: "Chemical Expiration Dates: Real or Imagined?" I would appreciate antecdotal information on whether or not expiration dates can be believed or not, how they are set by the manufacturer or distributor, when they are important (peroxide formers) and when they are not (many inorganic salts). Your opinions will help set the tone for this article. By the way, CHAS is always looking for authors on any safety topic... Russ Phifer WCC Environmental 610-696-9220 610-344-7519 fax envasset@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:28:59 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Carolyn S. Jaussi" Subject: Re: New Member Introductions In-Reply-To: <752a0992.369b422e@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, members, I'm another lurking member. I'm a biologist and CHO for the Forage and Range Research Labs (USDA-ARS) in Logan UT. You've helped me a great deal...and kept me intertained! I need advise on the disposal/deactivation of ethidium bromide. Our current disposal costs are becoming prohibitive. Someone on staff (fresh from Cornell) said that they just exposed their gels to sunlight. Does anyone have information on this technique? Any help would be appreciated. At 07:38 AM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi NACHO Members, > >I'd like to invite our new members and older members who have not yet spoken >up to introduce themselves to their fellow member and indicate any special >area of lab safety/CHO interest. > >In my own case, the 1998 news was my retirement from teaching at Curry College >to spend more time working for LSW and doing some consulting work. ... jim > > ***************************************************** > James A. Kaufman, President > The Laboratory Safety Workshop > 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 > 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com > Safety in Science Education > >The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational >organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and >important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory >Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar >schedule, and membership information are available on request. > > The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. > Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG > ********************************************************************** > *************************************************************** Carolyn S. Jaussi Biologist, CHO USDA ARS FRRL Utah State University 700 N 1100 E Logan UT 84322-6300 Phone: (435)-797-3222 FAX: (435)-797-3075 Email: csjaussi@cc.usu.edu *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:02:03 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Debbie Decker Subject: Re: New Member Introductions In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990112082859.007a6b40@cc.usu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:28 AM 1/12/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hi, members, > >I'm another lurking member. I'm a biologist and CHO for the Forage and >Range Research Labs (USDA-ARS) in Logan UT. You've helped me a great >deal...and kept me intertained! > >I need advise on the disposal/deactivation of ethidium bromide. Our >current disposal costs are becoming prohibitive. Someone on staff (fresh >from Cornell) said that they just exposed their gels to sunlight. Does >anyone have information on this technique? Any help would be appreciated. Welcome aboard! Glad to know a bit more about the lurkers out there. On our website, there is a procedure for deactivation of EtBr. www.ehs.ucdavis.edu Click on safetynets and look at #53 (Detoxification of Ethidium Bromide Solutions). It may be of interest to you. Remember - EtBr is a potent mutagen but doesn't appear on any haz materials/haz waste/lists of lists from regulatory agencies. Be careful out there :-) Deb. Debbie M. Decker, Health and Safety Specialist Environmental Health and Safety University of California, Davis 1 Shields Ave. Davis, CA 95616 (530)754-7964 (530)752-1493 dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:33:22 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Re: New Member Introductions Comments: To: csjaussi@CC.USU.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Howdy Carolyn. I work with the microbiology group here at UNE and they use ethidium bromide. They gave me a couple of suggestions that are more cost effective and work safely for dealing with the stuff. You can treat the gels in Clorox to destroy the stuff. What we currently do is dispose of the gels as biohazard material so it gets incinerated. There is a product from Sigma called "Red TAQ" that can be used instead of ethidium bromide. It is an innocuous red die that has been conjugated to a polymerace. You just look for the red bands to read the gels. Hope this helps. Janeen ***************** Janeen Lapierre, CHO College of Osteopathic Medicine University of New England 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446 Opinions are mine and not those of UNE. >>> "Carolyn S. Jaussi" - 1/12/99 10:28 AM >>> Hi, members, I'm another lurking member. I'm a biologist and CHO for the Forage and Range Research Labs (USDA-ARS) in Logan UT. You've helped me a great deal...and kept me intertained! I need advise on the disposal/deactivation of ethidium bromide. Our current disposal costs are becoming prohibitive. Someone on staff (fresh from Cornell) said that they just exposed their gels to sunlight. Does anyone have information on this technique? Any help would be appreciated. At 07:38 AM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi NACHO Members, > >I'd like to invite our new members and older members who have not yet spoken >up to introduce themselves to their fellow member and indicate any special >area of lab safety/CHO interest. > >In my own case, the 1998 news was my retirement from teaching at Curry College >to spend more time working for LSW and doing some consulting work. ... jim > > ***************************************************** > James A. Kaufman, President > The Laboratory Safety Workshop > 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 > 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com > Safety in Science Education > >The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational >organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and >important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory >Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar >schedule, and membership information are available on request. > > The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. > Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG > ********************************************************************** > *************************************************************** Carolyn S. Jaussi Biologist, CHO USDA ARS FRRL Utah State University 700 N 1100 E Logan UT 84322-6300 Phone: (435)-797-3222 FAX: (435)-797-3075 Email: csjaussi@cc.usu.edu *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:48:29 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Helen B. Gerhard" Subject: Biohazard Regulations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi All: I've been asked to look into the regulations that we will need to comply with and safe practices in general if we put in a microbiology lab into our place of business. Also, I've been as to find out the same if we started doing radioactive carbon tracing experiments. Can someone lead me in the right direction? Thanks! Helen -----Original Message----- From: Janeen LaPierre [SMTP:JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 11:33 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: New Member Introductions Howdy Carolyn. I work with the microbiology group here at UNE and they use ethidium bromide. They gave me a couple of suggestions that are more cost effective and work safely for dealing with the stuff. You can treat the gels in Clorox to destroy the stuff. What we currently do is dispose of the gels as biohazard material so it gets incinerated. There is a product from Sigma called "Red TAQ" that can be used instead of ethidium bromide. It is an innocuous red die that has been conjugated to a polymerace. You just look for the red bands to read the gels. Hope this helps. Janeen ***************** Janeen Lapierre, CHO College of Osteopathic Medicine University of New England 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446 Opinions are mine and not those of UNE. >>> "Carolyn S. Jaussi" - 1/12/99 10:28 AM >>> Hi, members, I'm another lurking member. I'm a biologist and CHO for the Forage and Range Research Labs (USDA-ARS) in Logan UT. You've helped me a great deal...and kept me intertained! I need advise on the disposal/deactivation of ethidium bromide. Our current disposal costs are becoming prohibitive. Someone on staff (fresh from Cornell) said that they just exposed their gels to sunlight. Does anyone have information on this technique? Any help would be appreciated. At 07:38 AM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi NACHO Members, > >I'd like to invite our new members and older members who have not yet spoken >up to introduce themselves to their fellow member and indicate any special >area of lab safety/CHO interest. > >In my own case, the 1998 news was my retirement from teaching at Curry College >to spend more time working for LSW and doing some consulting work. ... jim > > ***************************************************** > James A. Kaufman, President > The Laboratory Safety Workshop > 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 > 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com > Safety in Science Education > >The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational >organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and >important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory >Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar >schedule, and membership information are available on request. > > The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. > Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG > ********************************************************************** > *************************************************************** Carolyn S. Jaussi Biologist, CHO USDA ARS FRRL Utah State University 700 N 1100 E Logan UT 84322-6300 Phone: (435)-797-3222 FAX: (435)-797-3075 Email: csjaussi@cc.usu.edu *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:48:08 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ward R Phifer Subject: Re: Biohazard Regulations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Helen - I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who can answer this a little better, but I'll take an initial stab at it... 1. Regulations associated with microbiology laboratory: Virtually the same as a chemistry lab, but you will need a new Chemical Hygiene Plan designed specifically for the "new" chemicals which will be handled, the new processes, new criteria for control measures, different training, etc. You may be adding new hazard classes, and depending on the types of research performed, may need additional equipment specified in various sections of the CHO. I can think of no other "regulations" that are unique to microbiology labs. 2. Radioactive carbon tracing experiments: Not my specialty, but I know you need to appoint a Radiation Safety Officer. This will also result in additions to the CHP. Russ Phifer WCC Environmental, LLC On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:48:29 -0700 "Helen B. Gerhard" writes: >Hi All: > >I've been asked to look into the regulations that we will need to comply with and safe practices in general if we put in a microbiology lab into our place of business. Also, I've been as to find out the same if we started doing radioactive carbon tracing experiments. Can someone lead me in the right direction? > >Thanks! > >Helen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:02:34 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ray Campbell Subject: Re: New Member Introductions In-Reply-To: <752a0992.369b422e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I will join in also. My name is Ray Campbell. I am a long time ACS member, certified as a CHO by the NRCC. I am employed by Varian Associates in the chromatography group at Sample Preparation Products. I am the QC/QA manager and the environmental, health and safety manager. I supervise the safety related functions of the tech service and r&d groups working in several labs. We have GC, HPLC, silica research and Organic labs. At 07:38 AM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi NACHO Members, > >I'd like to invite our new members and older members who have not yet spoken >up to introduce themselves to their fellow member and indicate any special >area of lab safety/CHO interest. > >In my own case, the 1998 news was my retirement from teaching at Curry College >to spend more time working for LSW and doing some consulting work. ... jim > > ***************************************************** > James A. Kaufman, President > The Laboratory Safety Workshop > 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 > 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com > Safety in Science Education > >The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational >organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and >important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory >Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar >schedule, and membership information are available on request. > > The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. > Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG > ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:14:19 EST Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: stefan Subject: Re: Member Introductions In-Reply-To: <19990112.100824.-3750913.0.envasset@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:06:08 -0600 Ward R Phifer said: >I am in the process of developing an article for Chemical Health & Safety >magazine entitled: >"Chemical Expiration Dates: Real or Imagined?" > ***** Russ- See the ACS publication "Safety in Academic Labs", page 53; "The principal criteria for assigning time spans to chemicals are the conditti ons in storage, the rates at which the compounds are oxidized by oxygen, the ra tes at which the compounds react with moistureand, in some cases, the ways in w hich they may polymerize....Chemicals that have been stored for a long period of time(perhaps 5 years) should be promptly scheduled for disposal." That last bit (5 years) would be a hard sell in academia. My anecdote involves the opening of a new Chemistry building. Most researchers who did not want to let go of their stockpiles of chemicals in the old building, suddenly did not want to clutter up a new lab with an excess of old chemicals. This coupled with the fact that moving ALL the chemicals was going to be a major task, and I convinced enough people that professionals should do the moving, meant that the researchers would not have to package and move the drums of "good" chemicals. We agreed that some older stock may still be valuable, even if not used on a daily basis, and so we set up an "archival" storage area. I am taking the lead on just what is "archivable". Expiration dates will be replaced by "decision dates" (see the same ACS publication.) This requires that on a prearranged inventory review schedule every bottle gets looked at and based on its deterioration, container integrity, use, and supply (if we have 3 bottles, maybe 1 would be sufficient), a judgement will be made to keep or discard. Although I have removed many old ethers and picric acids from labs, and witnessed their controlled detonation, I still haven't found evidence of what constitutes a great enough "shock" to set something off. I've tested a case of unopened 1pint ether cans > 20 years old- some tested positive- with varying levels, the majority tested negative. Opened cans of ether previously stored next to nitric acid, < 5years old, I've treated as a potential bomb. So, unfortunately, expiration dates don't tell the whole story, and the best management practices should be evidence of a controlled inventory, visual inspections, and minimizing chemical stock within working labs, and possibly setting up an archive storage area for valuable stable chemicals. Stefan Wawzyniecki, CIH, NRCC-CHO University of Connecticut ************************************ >I would appreciate antecdotal information on whether or not expiration >dates can be believed or not, how they are set by the manufacturer or >distributor, when they are important (peroxide formers) and when they are >not (many inorganic salts). Your opinions will help set the tone for >this article. > >By the way, CHAS is always looking for authors on any safety topic... > >Russ Phifer >WCC Environmental > >610-696-9220 >610-344-7519 fax >envasset@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:07:55 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Re: Biohazard Regulations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Helen. As to guidelines for micro labs, try this web site - http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpb/lcdc/biosafty/docs/index.html It was set up by the department of health in Canada. Lots of good stuff. You can also read over the Bloodborne Path section from OSHA. It is not the most exciting read but there are a lot of general operating procedures you need to follow outlined in there that can be applied across the board when dealing with infectious agents. Laminar Flow hoods are needed depending on what you are doing. Lots of chemicals and reagents with the same considerations you would give them in chem labs. Means of disinfection or decontamination such as autoclaves and clorox. Lots of hand washing and good old common sense. My back ground was very light in the microbiology area. I have learned most of what I know on the job from two outstanding microbiologists. Most of the stuff we work with is of very low virulence, ie. they are lab cultures not patient samples. If you spill some on you, wash your hands and you are ok. You would really have to work at it to make yourself sick from our bugs. This is not always the case and not knowing what you have in mind its hard to say much more specific. Hope some of this helps. Feel free to ask more specifics and I bet I can get some answers pretty fast from these guys. CDC - Center for Disease Control might have some stuff too. Janeen ***************** Janeen Lapierre, CHO College of Osteopathic Medicine University of New England 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446 Opinions are mine and not those of UNE. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:20:42 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Re: Lurking Member Intro & Hood Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Kathleen. Sounds like you are on the right track with getting hoods into the boi labs. I would suggest that if only one hood can be purchased due to budget constraints, that you get one with the greatest working area possible. You might want to consider a laminar flow hood in one of your bio labs to do tissue culture work in. Vented storage cabinets are good but you should look into smaller poisons cabinets too. I have lived through the building of a new science facility and the remodel of existing space. Don't be surprised when people start cutting your requests to keep in line with budget constraints. Keep yourself in the loop and never assume anything is set until you see it installed and tested and functions to specs. Good luck, Janeen. ***************** Janeen Lapierre, CHO College of Osteopathic Medicine University of New England 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446 Opinions are mine and not those of UNE. >>> Kathleen Pelkki - 1/12/99 8:52 AM >>> Hi, NACHOS! I've been a lurking member for a while and so will respond to Jim's request for introduction. I am the lab technician for the biology department of a small university in mid-Michigan. We have about 8000 students and I work for 8 biology professors. I have learned much from listening to this group and value that information. Safety is not an issue that is talked much about in Biology labs. I do have a question. We are having a new science building built in the near future that our Chemistry department is moving in to. We will occupy existing spaces in our current science building with remodeling. The question came up about hoods in biology labs. We are requesting one hood and vented cabinets in each lab. In your opinions, is this enough? How many hoods do other newer, biology labs have? Thank you for any imput. Kathy Pelkki pelkki@tardis.svsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:45:02 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Greene, Ben" Subject: expiration dates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Not typically safety related - but - of some interest to the inquiry on expiration dates is the concept of "certified" analytical standards expiring. ISO 9000 implementation has added some interesting twists on this as well. Those familiar with purchasing a variety of standards form NIST, or for purchasing AA/ICP/ICP-MS metal solution or GC/GC/MS organics standards, often for environmental analyses, will typically find an expiration date, perhaps based upon date of shipment from the supplier or the date of "certification". Not long ago an individual I know ordered and received a couple of 1-liter bottles (a supply suitable for a couple years) of ortho-tolidine for colorimetric determination of residual chlorine in water, but was somewhat dismayed to find that the "expiration" date was 3 weeks from when it was received. Needless to say, the "expiration" date was irrelevant to the need, but watch out for buying "certified" standards which will "expire" before you can use them (if you are forced to care). I can say, however, that from a waste minimization standpoint, it is advantageous to order the minimum quantity if for no other reason than to either avoid having to dispose of unused "product" that became "waste" after it "expired" or have to compose an essay on the label as to why the material is still acceptable for use. My opinion only. Ben Greene, Ph.D AlliedSignal Las Cruces, NM 88004 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:42:46 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Nick Pinizzotto Subject: Ethidium Bromide Disposal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Happy New Year Everyone, If any of you are working with ethidium bromide, I would be curious to know how people are handling its disposal. Specifically I am interested in how gels,buffer solutions, stock solutions, and various items like pipets, microcentrifuge tubes etc. are being managed. Any and all feedback is appreciated however the standard MSDS line " dispose of according to state, federal, and local regulations" is not acceptable! Thanks! Nick Pinizzotto Environmental Health Officer Dept. Environmental Health & Safety Thomas Jefferson University nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu 215-503-5853 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:15:27 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Barry Rutledge Subject: Re: Ethidium Bromide Disposal In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:42 PM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >Happy New Year Everyone, > >If any of you are working with ethidium bromide, I would be curious to know >how people are handling its disposal. > >Specifically I am interested in how gels,buffer solutions, stock solutions, >and various items like pipets, microcentrifuge tubes etc. >are being managed. >Nick Pinizzotto >Environmental Health Officer >Dept. Environmental Health & Safety >Thomas Jefferson University >nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu >215-503-5853 Nick, We collect the buffer solutions and stock solutions for management as hazardous waste. Gels, gloves, pipets, microfuge tubes and other empty containers are discarded into the regular trash as we would any other empty non-highly toxic containers. We have calculated the amount of ethidium brominde in our gels and do not feel they meet any definition of hazardous waste. Kenneth "Barry" Rutledge Senior Safety Specialist The Scripps Research Inst. La Jolla, CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:05:15 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Kathryn L Crepeau Subject: Re: New Member Introductions In-Reply-To: <752a0992.369b422e@aol.com> from "Labsafe@AOL.COM" at Jan 12, 99 07:38:06 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI NACHOs' I am a fairly new member. I work as a chemist for the US Geological Survey. I am also the Safety Officer and lab manager. I mostly work with pesticides in water and suspended sediment using a GC/MS. Enjoy all the interesting topics that are discussed. Kathryn Crepeau kcrepeau@usgs.gov >>>>> Labsafe@AOL.COM writes: > > Hi NACHO Members, > > I'd like to invite our new members and older members who have not yet spoken > up to introduce themselves to their fellow member and indicate any special > area of lab safety/CHO interest. > > In my own case, the 1998 news was my retirement from teaching at Curry College > to spend more time working for LSW and doing some consulting work. ... jim > > ***************************************************** > James A. Kaufman, President > The Laboratory Safety Workshop > 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 > 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com > Safety in Science Education > > The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational > organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and > important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory > Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar > schedule, and membership information are available on request. > > The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. > Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG > ********************************************************************** > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:31:59 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Dr. Linda A. Swihart" Subject: Laminar flow hood terminology In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello group Somebody recently remarked that "laminar flow hoods are needed depending on what you are doing." It caused me to write and ask how, in your various institutions, you distinguish between the different types of laminar flow cabinetry, and how you in academia fund the testing, certification, and repair of these units. Here at old Purdue, we (as in myself and the technician who is most involved, but almost nobody else :-) try very hard to use self-consistent terms: "BSC" (biological safety cabinet) we use to refer to units that have HEPA filtered supply and HEPA filtered exhaust. "LFCB" (laminar flow clean bench) is used to refer to the units with HEPA filtered supply only. We never call them HOODS unless they're made for chemicals. Too confusable with the old hood-hoods, you know, the ones that don't have HEPA filters and blow everything out on the roof. (We do have a very small number of true HEPA filtered hoods, mostly used for geological type trace isotope studies, boiling up rocks in HF and other very nasty corrosives, etc..., but these are not the focus of my query.) So, what short-hand sort of names do you use to distinguish between the one-filter or two-filter types of units, or do you bother? And to those of you in academic institutions, who pays for all of the work? Do you have technicians in-house and are they NSF-ceritfied (or accredited or whatever it is)? Are costs absorbed out of overhead or are the researchers charged? LFCBs - which are no more safety equipment than a gas chromatograph - and BSCs both? (Purdue hires it out to NSF-accredited professionals and pays for everything, i.e. our EH&S department funds the annual certification testing for all units regardless, plus repairs and filter changes, which get way pricey at times. Once in a while if somebody needs a decon/recert because they're moving a unit, and it's right AFTER we just had it certified, we make them pay for it....) Thanks to all, Linda ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:14:26 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Lisa Gonzalez Subject: Re: Biohazard Regulations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain For safe practices in a microbiology lab you can check the CDC guidelines for Biosafety in Microbiological labs: www.cdc.gov/od/ohs/ Out of curiosity, what species are you planning to use for the trace studies? Lisa Gonzalez, NRCC-CHO RSO -----Original Message----- From: Helen B. Gerhard [SMTP:hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM] Subject: Biohazard Regulations regulations that we will need to comply with and safe practices in general if we put in a microbiology lab into our place of business. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:51:18 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Re: Ethidium Bromide Disposal In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Our OEHS website has a downloadable PDF file on ethidium bromide management - a variety of methods: http://www.utexas.edu/business/oehs/resources/info.ethidium.pdf JNR Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS College of Natural Sciences G2500 W.C. Hogg Building University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712-1199 (512) 471-6176 (O) (512) 471-4998 (F) jrubin@mail.utexas.edu "The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise specified." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:38:58 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Lisa Gonzalez Subject: Re: Ethidium Bromide Disposal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Nick- Once the ethidium bromide is run on a gel, the entire gel can go as bio waste. It's usually cheaper than chemical waste. buffer solutions, -- they're tricky. It depends if a lot of acid or base was used to change the pH. If it is pH is between 5-9, (whicch varies state to state) it may be able to go straight to drain disposal. stock solutions ? various items like pipets, microcentrifuge tubes - again this varies state to state. New Jersey is very strict & consequently, my philosophy is if it's something my grandma may construe as "medical waste" then it goes into bio waste. However, in Ne York state unless it "red bag" material, ie contaminated with a potentiously infectious material (biological) then it can go in th regular trash. I personally do not like this policy for many reasons. Your best bet may be to check with state regulations for sanitary sewer disposal (for pH info) and medical waste disposal for the plastic disposables. Hope this helps! Lisa A. Gonzalez, NRCC-CHO Purdue Pharma LP 444 Saw Mill River Road Ardsley, NY 10502 (914) 709-2780 lisa.gonzalez@pharma.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:46:40 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Lisa Gonzalez Subject: Re: Laminar flow hood terminology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi everyone. Linda's note prompted me to say hi & introduce myself. I am Lisa A. Gonzalez, a certified Chemical Hygiene Officer through the NRCC. I am also the Company's Radiation Safety Officer. However, the point I wanted to make is that I work for Purdue Pharma LP, which usually is confused with the university, & of course good 'ol Frank Perdue. The list is a great source of information. Thanks for listening. Lisa A. Gonzalez, NRCC-CHO RSO Purdue Pharma LP 444 Saw Mill River Road Ardsley NY 10502 (914) 709-2780 lisa.gonzalez@pharma.com Here at old Purdue ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:58:02 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: John McGrath Organization: AT&T Subject: Re: New Member Introductions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi NACHO Members, Another lurking member here. I am a science supervisor for a suburban school district on Long Island. We have about 5000 students K-12 and about 600 staff members, including professional and non-professional staff. My CHO responsibilities are in addition to my other duties--there is a lot of that going around. I have been very interested by the discussions and I am learning a lot about areas that I hope I never have to deal with. Thanks to all, especially to you Jim! John McGrath, CCHO Baldwin Senior High School 841 Kloberg Drive Baldwin, N.Y. 11510 (516) 377-9223 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:45:52 EST Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Martin Besant Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 10 Jan 1999 to 11 Jan 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Excellent information on both cyanide poisoning, and what to expect from emergency responders. Thank you Jeff One small comment to tighten up the statement. sodium thiosulfate is photo "fixer" used to remove (dissolve) unexposed silver from photographic film. Photo "stop" is usually actic acid. This neutralizes the reducing agent (usually an organic base) in the developer and therefore stops the exposed silver from further developing into metallic silver. Any comments or corrections of my understanding of photo chem would be greatly appreciated. I try to use photography to teach HS students about the practical uses of abstract chemical reactions Marty Besant West Seneca East Sr HS A suburb of Buffalo NY Where I just finished shoveling 4 feet of snow from my roof (my wife does the driveway) but the skiing is great ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:11:00 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Nick Pinizzotto Subject: Laminar flow hood terminology In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990112173159.007e9a20@postoffice.purdue.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Linda, I'll second the "hoods" comment. Seems like it's a never ending battle to try and keep Fume Hoods and Biosafety Cabinets separated! Researhers are famous for calling everything a "hood". We here at Thomas Jefferson University contract out all of the BSC(and other laminar flows etc.) certifications to ENV services. Then this service is billed directly to each departmental budget through a blanket P.O. Our office however, does all of the Fumehood certifications. I've often thought about going to school for BSC certification and bringing the process "in- House" but I just haven't sat down to do the figures and see whether it would benefit Jefferson. The other consideration would be whether that's all I would want to do here, given the fact that we have about 800-1,000 BSC's etc. Nick Pinizzotto Environmental Health Officer Dept. Environmental Health & Safety Thomas Jefferson University nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu 215-503-5853 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:15:41 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Nick Pinizzotto Subject: Re: Member Introductions In-Reply-To: <990112.150105.EST.EHSADM5@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well said Stephan! Nick Pinizzotto Environmental Health Officer Dept. Environmental Health & Safety Thomas Jefferson University nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu 215-503-5853 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:38:21 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Madelyn Miller Subject: Re: Ethidium Bromide Disposal In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Greetings Nick, We used to deal with the ethidium bromide as hazardous waste but now all the gloves, gels, etc.. go out as biohazard for incineration. It is a great deal cheaper. The EPA does not regulate mutagens but CMU has a policy that carcinogens and mutagens will be destroyed. We are more conservative than the regulations. Madelyn On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:42:46 -0500 Nick Pinizzotto wrote: > Happy New Year Everyone, > > If any of you are working with ethidium bromide, I would be curious to know > how people are handling its disposal. > > Specifically I am interested in how gels,buffer solutions, stock solutions, > and various items like pipets, microcentrifuge tubes etc. > are being managed. > > Any and all feedback is appreciated however the standard MSDS line " dispose > of according to state, federal, and local regulations" is not acceptable! > > > Thanks! > > Nick Pinizzotto > Environmental Health Officer > Dept. Environmental Health & Safety > Thomas Jefferson University > nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu > 215-503-5853 ---------------------- Madelyn Miller Chemical Hygiene Officer, CCHO Environmental Health & Safety Carnegie Mellon University mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:37:57 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Nick Pinizzotto Subject: Re: New Member Introductions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carolyn, There is a book out there "Destruction of Hazardous Chemicals in the Laboratory" by George Lunn and Eric Sansone. Ethidium bromide is addressed and offers several methods for destruction/disposal. There are filtration methods as well which consolidate the Etbr by extracting it from the solutions. The volume of Etbr for disposal is much less and the buffer solutions can then go to the drain, however we haven't been successful to date on convincing the researchers on this extra step. We too incur much expense in disposal of this material. I like the idea that Janeen offered on the non-hazardous substitute and will be looking into that. Lunn and Sansone state that using bleach to destroy Etbr produces mutagenic reaction mixtures so we discourage our reseachers from using bleach anymore. Nick Pinizzotto Environmental Health Officer Dept. Environmental Health & Safety Thomas Jefferson University nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu 215-503-5853 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:55:08 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Schulze, Stacie" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good morning to my fellow NACHO members. I am a CHO at a research facility for a personal care products manufacturer. My main focuses are promoting lab safety and managing our chemical hygiene programs. I look forward to communication with all of you on laboratory safety and associated issues. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:25:00 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Norm Englbrecht Subject: Menber Intro Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit Hi NACHO's, My name is Norm Englbrecht. I have been a member since June 1998. I work for Varn Products Co., Inc. as Regulatory Affairs Specialist. The company R&D lab is located at this facility. The Director of R&D thought it would be a natural for me to be the CHO for the lab. Reading the days labsafety list posting is the first thing on my schedule every morning. Norm Englbrecht, CHMM Varn Products Co. Inc. 905 S. Westwood Ave. Addison, IL 60101 norm.englbrecht@varn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:24:50 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Kathleen Gallagher Organization: Chubb Services Corporation Subject: Lurking Members MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just another formal introduction from a lurking member. I am the safety consultant for a biotech self-insurance group. As such, I have a background in both the biotech industry and worker's compensation insurance. Right now we are working at developing an ergonomics training program for the group that's specific to laboratory work.....hoods, glove boxes, pipets, chairs, scheduling experiments, slowing down the pace. The whole works. We've already got a segment for the offices and VDT workstations. Since I would rather not reinvent the wheel, I would be greatful for any input. Thanks, Jim, for forcing us out of the woodwork. Please feel free to answer off line, if appropriate. Kathleen Gallagher Chubb Services Corporation 2000 West Park Drive Westborough, MA 01581 phone (508) 898-2777 extension 3021 fax (508) 898-3623 kgallagher@chubb.com -- Kathleen Gallagher mailto:kgallagher@chubb.com Chubb Services Corporation ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:54:15 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Sonja G. Ringen" Subject: Is there a listserver.....? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Is there a listserver, dedicated to environmental issues, that has a name similar to Green Lane, Green Line, Greenliner.....? If you know of such a forum, would you please let me know? Thanks, Sonja G. Ringen, Manager Environmental Health and Safety University of Wyoming Laramie, WY 82071-3413 ringen@uwyo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:57:47 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Teresa Robertson Organization: CSU Bakersfield Subject: Re: Laminar flow hood terminology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu,.internet writes: >Researhers are famous for calling everything a "hood". Last year when a lab class asked me where to find one of the reagents for their experiment, and I said "In the hood", one said "You mean we got to go all the way home to the hood to get it?" I promptly change my terminology. TRR ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:23:14 EST Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Gilbert Smith Subject: Re: New Member Introductions/NRCC CHO certification program Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit FYI National Registry in Clinical Chemistry Gilbert Smith NRCC6@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:33:56 +1300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Tony Haggerty Subject: Re: Laminar flow hood terminology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Translation please. What's a "hood" in the home? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:03:18 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Reeder, Deborah" Subject: MSDS help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi NACHOS I am Debbie Reeder and serve as the Chemistry Department Laboratory Manager at Anne Arundel Community College in Arnold Maryland - 2 year college with about 13,000 students. Although I am not the official CHO (my boss) I am responsible for lab safety (known as the "witch" of the lab!) and hazardous waste disposal among many other things. Two questions - what are web sites you use when looking up an MSDS and I have a request to do a Wittig reaction with second semester organic students using Benzyltriphenylphosphonium chloride and 9-Anthraldehyde. Any comments? Great things from this list! Deborah M. Reeder Chemistry Laboratory Manager Anne Arundel Community College 101 College Parkway Arnold, Maryland 21012 voice: 410-541-2224 fax: 410-541-2525 e-mail: dmreeder@mail.aacc.cc.md.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:55:40 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Helen B. Gerhard" Subject: Re: Laminar flow hood terminology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Slang for "neighborhood" Thanks! Helen -----Original Message----- From: Tony Haggerty [SMTP:techton@IHUG.CO.NZ] Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 11:34 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Laminar flow hood terminology Translation please. What's a "hood" in the home? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:02:07 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Helen B. Gerhard" Subject: Re: MSDS help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ChemFinder is a great link (often to MSDS) for chemical information. http://chemfinder.camsoft.com/ Thanks! Helen -----Original Message----- From: Reeder, Deborah [SMTP:dmreeder@MAIL.AACC.CC.MD.US] Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 12:03 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: MSDS help Hi NACHOS I am Debbie Reeder and serve as the Chemistry Department Laboratory Manager at Anne Arundel Community College in Arnold Maryland - 2 year college with about 13,000 students. Although I am not the official CHO (my boss) I am responsible for lab safety (known as the "witch" of the lab!) and hazardous waste disposal among many other things. Two questions - what are web sites you use when looking up an MSDS and I have a request to do a Wittig reaction with second semester organic students using Benzyltriphenylphosphonium chloride and 9-Anthraldehyde. Any comments? Great things from this list! Deborah M. Reeder Chemistry Laboratory Manager Anne Arundel Community College 101 College Parkway Arnold, Maryland 21012 voice: 410-541-2224 fax: 410-541-2525 e-mail: dmreeder@mail.aacc.cc.md.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:15:49 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Teresa Robertson Organization: CSU Bakersfield Subject: MSDS Help Comments: cc: trobertson@csubak.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu,.internet writes: >Hi NACHOS >Two questions - what are web sites you use when looking up an MSDS You MUST check out this MSDS site. http://www.ilpi.com/msds/index.chtml http://chemfinder.camsoft.com is a MUST also, but it is one of dozens of sites available at the above. Teresa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:20:55 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Melonee Cruse Organization: Chaffey College Subject: Re: Laminar flow hood terminology MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Tony Haggerty wrote: > > Translation please. What's a "hood" in the home?"Hood" This is an Ebonic term for "Neighborhood" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:05:05 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Re: Laminar flow hood terminology Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Linda. Maintenance on Laminar flow units is taken care of in overhead for the university. We too, higher out for the certification and work. We have only two of these units on campus. I was thinking more of instructional use of the units for techniques in tissue culture that are being incorporated into some of our molecular bio and genetics courses here. You make a good point on distinguishing between the units and good old hoods. Again, do to our small number and the relative control I have over the access to these units, we have not experienced any problems with inappropriate use. I am about to digress here but I think this discussion opens up a new topic on bio lab safety as a separate entity from chem lab safety. In addition to the chemicals use for experiments, you will often find bio hazards, specific equipment not usually seen in chem labs, and all too often, faculty who feel the relative level of hazards low to nonexistent in the biology setting. Seems to me that these factors added together, can actually be more hazardous than most of our chem labs. Of course my focus here is on an academic setting. What are some stratagems others might suggest for building an awareness for the dangers in bio labs? How do you get the profs to stop bring in coffee to the biochem lab? Just curious. For what its worth, Janeen. ***************** Janeen Lapierre, CHO College of Osteopathic Medicine University of New England 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446 Opinions are mine and not those of UNE. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:07:03 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Debbie Decker Subject: Re: Laminar flow hood terminology In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990112173159.007e9a20@postoffice.purdue.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:31 PM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >"BSC" (biological safety cabinet) we use to refer to units that have HEPA >filtered supply and HEPA filtered exhaust. That is - used for protection of workers using buggies that could make 'em sick. >"LFCB" (laminar flow clean bench) is used to refer to the units with HEPA >filtered supply only. Used for protection of product, not the worker. We use the same terminology here. >We never call them HOODS unless they're made for chemicals. Try to keep it square - tough to do sometimes. "Biohood" is a phrase used here to refer to biosafety cabs (mostly by the rad guys who take a loooong time to re-train ). We don't too many of the laminar flow hoods. >And to those of you in academic institutions, who pays for all of the work? The department who "owns" the cabs. They are already used to paying when EH&S did it and the price is a bit better with the contractor. We contract it out to a certified contractor who is doing an okay job (response times not as quick as some would like). Used to be done in-house and then the work got to be too much for the one person who was doing a couple of other full-time jobs . Filter changes are done by the contractor. I'm not sure about repairs - Whether that would be done in-house or by contractor. Would still be done on a cost-recovery basis, though. Hope this helps, Deb. (by way of introduction: who used to be CHO at California State University, Sacramento and now is with University of California, Davis. BS in chemistry, 8 years in explosives, about 6 years in health and safety, mostly chemicals, lab safety and haz waste. Now doing more IAQ and yet another chemical database . Advising the Vet School on safety issues, too [what do I know about horses, cows and elephants? Not much, but I'm learning!]) Debbie M. Decker, Health and Safety Specialist Environmental Health and Safety University of California, Davis 1 Shields Ave. Davis, CA 95616 (530)754-7964 (530)752-1493 dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:17:32 EST Reply-To: "Karcz-ENV, Timothy" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Karcz-ENV, Timothy" Subject: Re: New Member Introductions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings, My name is Tim Karcz and I work for the Massachusetts Office of Technical Assistance for Toxics Use Reduction in Boston. We are a non-regulatory, confidential assistance group that works to reduce toxics use wherever they may roam. Businesses (or labs) call us in and we evaluate their processes, confidentially, to suggest what can be done. I am on the Metro Boston regional team. I am sure that most everyone on the list is aware of toxic dangers in the lab. Our approach to lab safety is to substitute less or non- toxic substances for highly toxic ones. It's good to get a feel for real CHO conversation to see where you are all coming from. Hopefully, I can chime in now and then with a tip, and also, I enjoy hearing what less or non-toxic processes you have all employed successfully in you labs. Thanks for having me. Tim Karcz (617)727-3260 x637 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:22:01 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Carolyn S. Jaussi" Subject: Re: MSDS help In-Reply-To: <5F88844307A0D01191B4006097089A159B63D2@mail.aacc.cc.md.us> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Debbie, One site I return to often (we need current MSDS for 2600 chemicals here) is "Where to Find MSDS on the Net". It has a LOT of links directly to companies, databases, etc: www.ilpi.com/msds/index.chtml Good Luck! At 02:03 PM 1/13/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi NACHOS > >I am Debbie Reeder and serve as the Chemistry Department Laboratory Manager >at Anne Arundel Community College in Arnold Maryland - 2 year college with >about 13,000 students. Although I am not the official CHO (my boss) I am >responsible for lab safety (known as the "witch" of the lab!) and hazardous >waste disposal among many other things. > >Two questions - what are web sites you use when looking up an MSDS >and >I have a request to do a Wittig reaction with second semester organic >students using Benzyltriphenylphosphonium chloride and 9-Anthraldehyde. Any >comments? > >Great things from this list! > >Deborah M. Reeder >Chemistry Laboratory Manager > >Anne Arundel Community College >101 College Parkway >Arnold, Maryland 21012 > >voice: 410-541-2224 >fax: 410-541-2525 >e-mail: dmreeder@mail.aacc.cc.md.us > *************************************************************** Carolyn S. Jaussi Biologist, CHO USDA ARS FRRL Utah State University 700 N 1100 E Logan UT 84322-6300 Phone: (435)-797-3222 FAX: (435)-797-3075 Email: csjaussi@cc.usu.edu *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:57:47 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Teresa Robertson Organization: CSU Bakersfield Subject: Re: Member Introductions Comments: cc: trobertson@csubak.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu,.internet writes: >I am in the process of developing an article for Chemical Health & >Safety >magazine entitled: >"Chemical Expiration Dates: Real or Imagined?" The Flinn Scientific Catalog list shelf lives for more than just H2O2 formers. Maybe someone at that company could tell you something about where they came up with the time spans. Teresa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:22:24 -0500 Reply-To: "Dr. Henry" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Henry Boyter Jr." Subject: Re: MSDS help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't rely on internet sheets unless you can not get them from the vendor, such as when the company no longer exists Many are 10-15 years old and do not contain some valuable information. Most vendors can reply within several hours by fax. Even if you go internet, contact the vendor and get the most up to date version. Dr. Henry Boyter, Jr. Ph.D. Chemist The opinions of Dr. Boyter are provided for informational purposes only and should not be used as advice. No warranty or expression of professionalism is implied. *************** -----Original Message----- From: Reeder, Deborah To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 2:01 PM Subject: MSDS help Hi NACHOS I am Debbie Reeder and serve as the Chemistry Department Laboratory Manager at Anne Arundel Community College in Arnold Maryland - 2 year college with about 13,000 students. Although I am not the official CHO (my boss) I am responsible for lab safety (known as the "witch" of the lab!) and hazardous waste disposal among many other things. Two questions - what are web sites you use when looking up an MSDS and I have a request to do a Wittig reaction with second semester organic students using Benzyltriphenylphosphonium chloride and 9-Anthraldehyde. Any comments? Great things from this list! Deborah M. Reeder Chemistry Laboratory Manager Anne Arundel Community College 101 College Parkway Arnold, Maryland 21012 voice: 410-541-2224 fax: 410-541-2525 e-mail: dmreeder@mail.aacc.cc.md.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:46:33 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Teresa Robertson Organization: CSU Bakersfield Subject: Re: MSDS help Comments: cc: trobertson@csubak.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hboyter@cstone.net,.internet writes: >Don't rely on internet sheets unless you can not get them from the >vendor, >Many are 10-15 years old and do not contain some valuable information. Yes, many are old. The worst I've seen are the old Baker MSDS available at the Camsoft site via the link "MSDS Archive at the University of Utah"; (which are not entirely useless, but must be used with great caution). I've found a few LD50's there which I've not been able to locate elsewhere. One of the problems with reaching this site via Camsoft is that the user does not see the warning posted at the Utah site about the age of these documents. Harry gives us great advice, HOWEVER, due to the explosive surge in internet use, there are now many vendors who ARE making their LATEST versions available via the WWW. :) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:43:23 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Roberta Black Subject: Re: Laminar flow hood terminology Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Janeen--How do you you stop chem instructors from taking their coffee cups into chem labs when the labs are posted "No Food or Drink"? I'm sure it works as well for biologists as it does for chemists. All I get is strange looks, so I pick up their coffee cups, wash and return them before the ingredients do become biohazardous waste. After more than 20 years, I just let the students know it is not appropriate to follow their bad example.--berta Pax et bonum ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:18:26 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Debbie Decker Subject: Re: bio lad and food (was Laminar flow hood terminology) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I am about to digress here but I think this discussion opens up a new topic on bio lab safety as a separate entity from chem lab safety. In addition to the chemicals use for experiments, you will often find bio hazards, specific equipment not usually seen in chem labs, and all too often, faculty who feel the relative level of hazards low to nonexistent in the biology setting. Seems to me that these factors added together, can actually be more hazardous than most of our chem labs. Of course my focus here is on an academic setting. What are some stratagems others might suggest for building an awareness for the dangers in bio labs? How do you get the profs to stop bring in coffee to the biochem lab? Just curious. > The biosafety program here is based on the CDC/NIH guidelines, coupled with JCAHO accreditation requirements (because of the med school). Those guidelines prohibit food and drink in the lab where biological agents are used. See page 16, Section III, under the description of Biosafety Level 1 (the lowest level of protection needed)/Standard Microbiological Practices of the 3rd Edition, Biosafety in Microbiological and Biomedical Laboratories. Hope this helps, Deb. Debbie Decker EH&S UCDavis (530)754-7964 dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:39:12 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jim Balquist Subject: Re: New Member Introductions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi - I'm Jim Balquist and I am the R&D EH&S Manager for Raychem Corporation in Menlo Park, California. I am a Chemist by training and have done R&D, Materials Development, Quality Assurance, Standards Development, and Agency Approvals in my career at Raychem before getting into EH&S part time in 1993 and essentially full time two years ago. While I have operational EH&S responsibility for R&D in Menlo, I also am the Worldwide Laboratory and Development Health and Safety (and a little Environmental) Coordinator and, in that position, am asked to identify, communicate, promote and standardize best practices in addition to doing internal training, consulting and auditing on these visits. I took Jim K's courses on Lab Safety and CHO at the ACS Meeting in San Francisco two years ago. I often still feel like a newcomer to EH&S and have found these discussions useful, although it can be a challenge to keep up with the volume (I was forewarned on this point). Regards - James M. Balquist Raychem Corporation 300 Constitution Drive MS 123/2A Menlo Park, CA 94025 phone: (650) 361-4072 FAX: (650) 361-6682 e-mail jbalquis@raychem.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:42:38 EST Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Laboratory Liability Issues Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On the SAFETY discussion list, Ken Champagne wrote: Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:24:59 -0500 From: ken champagne Subject: Laboratory Liability Issues To Safety Net: The EH&S Dept. here at Duquesne University is conducting a laboratory safety seminar for the graduate students and professors in our pharmacy dept. We would like to stress the liability issues for the university and also individual professor liability when accidents occur. Does anyone have examples or case studies that they would be willing to share in which the professor or principle investigator was held liable for an accident that occurred in their lab? Thanks in advance, Ken Champagne, EH&S Duquesne University, (412)396-4763 John DeLaHunt responded.... Personally, I hate to raise the liability issue with anyone but senior management (and others who understand its inherant variability), mostly because I think that people who aren't directly exposed to liability on a frequent and severe basis don't know how random it is. I gladly foster conversations about liability once someone else raises the topic, though. I'm just leery of using it as a hammer. Same, in fact, with OSHA and EPA regs. If I say "thisnthat can happen," someone from the faculty (usually) says "Oh, yeah? Prove it. Show me where a small priovate college in Colorado has gotten sued/busted/fined/whatever for exactly this circumstance." And when I can't (because we're the only small private college in Colorado, and we don't know who's gotten sued for what), they say, "See? No liability risk." Once the conversation has progressed this far, it's often more trouble than its worth to get back to the topic at hand. That's why I prefer to spend time talking about the tangible effects on the individuals and the environment. If we avoid injury and pollution, we also avoid liablity surrounding injury and pollution. Why wait and see if we get sued, then agree to do it right? Why not just do it right from the beginning? I do like talking about the FD revoking our hazmat permit in the science building because we can't do things like keep our lab chemicals segregated. That (saying "how does chemistry with no chemicals sound?") brings the discussion back on course, but, of course, is limited to fire safety. I'm debating whether to ask Legal and the Dean to describe in writing the College's probable course of action if negligence by a faculty member finds the College liable to a third party. Specific circumstances withstanding, our legal folks have said as much as "we'll protect you from them, but you get to protect you from us afterwards." I'd think knowing that would change some of the indemnification mavens' minds. Hope this helps. John John DeLaHunt, EH&S Manager The Colorado College, 1125 Glen Avenue Colorado Springs, Colorado 80905 (719)389-6678 phone, (719)389-6981 fax jdelahunt@ColoradoCollege.edu ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at http://www.labsafety.org/ ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:30:19 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: bio lad and food (was Laminar flow hood terminology) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990113161826.007b9610@scarlet.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reminds me of a Right to Know training session/lab inspection I was doing at an area college is the earliest days of RTK. Actually I gave my pitch, then offered to check out the labs. The chem profs agreed, although some reluctantly; the biology prof flatly assured me they had no chemicals at all in the department! When I poked my nose into said prof's lab anyhow, what did I see in the hood but a gal can of dioxane, (a potential peroxide former) with label almost corroded away. The dean was with me. He authorized an inspection of biology labs. I'm curious that the JCAHO, CDC/NIH guideline prohibit food and drink in the labs where biological agents are present, but nothing is said of chemicals. Still, I suppose biological agents have the potential to cause more mischief. Mary Ann At 04:18 PM 1/13/99 -0800, you wrote: >>I am about to digress here but I think this discussion opens up a new >topic on bio lab safety as a separate entity from chem lab safety. In >addition to the chemicals use for experiments, you will often find bio >hazards, specific equipment not usually seen in chem labs, and all too >often, faculty who feel the relative level of hazards low to nonexistent in >the biology setting. Seems to me that these factors added together, can >actually be more hazardous than most of our chem labs. Of course my focus >here is on an academic setting. What are some stratagems others might >suggest for building an awareness for the dangers in bio labs? How do you >get the profs to stop bring in coffee to the biochem lab? Just curious. >> > >The biosafety program here is based on the CDC/NIH guidelines, coupled with >JCAHO accreditation requirements (because of the med school). Those >guidelines prohibit food and drink in the lab where biological agents are >used. See page 16, Section III, under the description of Biosafety Level 1 >(the lowest level of protection needed)/Standard Microbiological Practices >of the 3rd Edition, Biosafety in Microbiological and Biomedical Laboratories. > >Hope this helps, >Deb. > >Debbie Decker >EH&S UCDavis >(530)754-7964 >dmdecker@ucdavis.edu > Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority Past Chair, DivCHAS, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:50:54 +0100 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Drossart Organization: U.C.L.-CICO/Chop Subject: Pivalolactone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bonjour Pivalolactone or 3,3-Dimethyl-2-oxethanone CAS 1955-45-9 We are looking for MSDS and Manufacturer !! many thanks claude -- Avec les meilleurs sentiments de Claude Drossart, Universite catholique de Louvain CICO-Chop-Laboratoire de Photochimie 1, place Pasteur, 1348-Louvain la Neuve (Wallonie-Belgique) tel: 32-(0)10-472714 GSM: 095.214835 fax: 32-(0)10-473009 http://www.chim.ucl.ac.be/CHIM/CICO/chop.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:01:51 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Lighter (?) note MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I don't know if this is a true story or not, but it's kind of fun. Enjoy! TOKYO --What do an unemployed stockbroker, a karaoke bar and a beer company have in common? They are all involved in lawsuits over a beer that fizzles from hydrogen. The Asaka Beer corporation brews "Suiso" brand beer, where the carbon dioxide normally has been replaced by the hydrogen gas which provides a fun side effect of increasing the voice and thus has made the beer extremely popular at karaoke sing-along bars. Hydrogen, like helium, is a gas lighter than air. Exploiting this quirk of physics, men can now sing soprano parts on karaoke sing-along machines after consuming a big gulp of Suiso beer. The flammable nature of hydrogen has also become popular as singer ignite flames from their mouth using a cigarette. Mr. Otoma, a now out-of-work stockbroker is suing the Tike-Take Karaoke bar and the Asaka brewery for selling toxic substances and is claiming damages for grievous bodily harm leading to the loss of his job. The bar is countersuing for defamation and loss of customers. "Mr. Otoma has no-one to blame but himself. If he had not become drunk and disorderly, none of this would have happened. Our security guards undergo the most careful screening and training before they are allowed to deal with customers," said the manager of the Tike-Take bar. It seems Mr. Otoma drank fifteen bottles of hydrogen beer so he could maximize the size of the flames he could belch during a singing contest. He catapulted balls of fire across the room but was unable to win first prize since the judgement is made on the quality of the flames and that of the singing. He apparently was singing badly out of tune after fifteen bottles of the bubbly beer. Taking offense at his loss he belched blue fireballs at the judge which burned off her eyebrows, lashes and ruined her clothes not to mention her hairdo. Mr. Otoma was unapproachable by security guards as he was quite literally a fire-breathing dragon. A swift guard swept his feet out from under him. The manager continues, "The laws of physics are not to be disobeyed, and the force that propelled Mr. Otoma's legs backwards also pivoted around his center of gravity and moved his upper body forward with equal velocity. It was his own fault he had his mouth open for the next belch, his own fault he held a lighted cigarette in front of it and it is own fault he swallowed that cigarette." The Tike-Take bar assumes no responsibility for the subsequent internal combustion, rupture of his stomach lining, nor the third degree burns to his esophagus, larynx and sinuses as the exploding gases forced their way out of his body. His consequential muteness and loss of employment are, according to the manager, "his own fault." "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D Specialty Chemicals Division RUETGERS Organics Corporation 201 Struble Road State College, PA 16801 phone 814-231-9214 fax 814-238-1567 email rburns@bigfoot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:28:21 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Re: Bio lab compliance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I guess the point I was trying to make, is that bio folks do not always acknowledge the risk in their bio labs. I have had much better cooperation from my chemists in this regard. In fact, the chemists often complained about the biologist in this area of compliance. I was just wondering if anyone had hit on a convincing argument to use in the bio lab setting? Thanks, Janeen. ***************** Janeen Lapierre, CHO College of Osteopathic Medicine University of New England 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446 Opinions are mine and not those of UNE. >>> Roberta Black - 1/13/99 6:43 PM >>> Janeen--How do you you stop chem instructors from taking their coffee cups into chem labs when the labs are posted "No Food or Drink"? I'm sure it works as well for biologists as it does for chemists. All I get is strange looks, so I pick up their coffee cups, wash and return them before the ingredients do become biohazardous waste. After more than 20 years, I just let the students know it is not appropriate to follow their bad example.--berta Pax et bonum ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:03:23 -0600 Reply-To: "swiki@bihs.net" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Swiki A. Anderson" Organization: Swiki Anderson & Associates, Inc. Subject: Re: Laboratory Liability Issues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Labsafe@AOL.COM [SMTP:Labsafe@AOL.COM] Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 9:43 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Laboratory Liability Issues On the SAFETY discussion list, Ken Champagne wrote: The EH&S Dept. here at Duquesne University is conducting a laboratory safety seminar for the graduate students and professors in our pharmacy dept. We would like to stress the liability issues for the university and also individual professor liability when accidents occur. Does anyone have examples or case studies that they would be willing to share in which the professor or principle investigator was held liable for an accident that occurred in their lab? As has been explained to me by several attorney friends, the state of Texas, and I am sure many others like it, enjoys sovereign immunity which extends to the professors. Hence if someone is hurt in a state/university lab and a plaintiff can prove malice on the part of the supervisor, it is useless to pursue any individual liability issues. Also in Texas, unless the legislature passes a bill authorizing funds to be paid to an injured party, no collection is possible regardless of the outcome of a trial, in at least our state courts. Proving malice means proving a mind set at the time of an accident. My suggestion regarding this is to forget the training and not waste the time, no state employee will ever have to pay a price for someone else's injury. Now, as has also been explained to me by several attorney friends with regards to liability with state institutions, if a consulting engineer designs a system that is defective or specifies a laboratory air flow control system that has known defectives, with publication of the known defects supported in the open literature, the engineer that makes use of the system in his design and the manufacturer of the defective system can both be held liable for property damage and personal injury in certain circumstance. The circumstances include causes of action under product liability and deceptive trade practice laws. Given the fact that most engineer do not build lab mock-up and test laboratory air flow and control concepts, many consulting engineers who work in the lab arena are now finding themselves as targets in chronic personal injury lawsuits. Lab building design in the private sector where sovereign immunity is not enjoyed makes for many more target of opportunity. Swiki A. Anderson, Ph.D., P.E. President Swiki Anderson and Associates, Inc. Consulting Mechanical, Electrical and Instrumentation Engineers 1516 Shiloh Ave. Bryan, Texas 77803 v. 409.779.6068,x11; f-6085 also see htttp:www.saai-svc.com/engineer/html/tech-notes.htm and click on "LINKS..." The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at http://www.labsafety.org/ ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:35:21 -0600 Reply-To: "msturgeon@mriresearch.org" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike Sturgeon Organization: MRI Subject: Re: Lighter (?) note As fun as the story is, it's also fiction. Another urban legend. I guess I should also take this opportunity to introduce myself to the list. I work at Midwest Research Institute, a research & development organization in Kansas City. (You can visit the MRI website at www.mriresearch.org to learn more about what we do). I've been in the EHS business for almost 10 years, both in the field (hazwaste & site remediation) and in the lab environment. I develop, implement and administer various programs (e.g. respiratory protection program, haz, bio & rad waste management, contractor & facilities safety, etc.) and serve as a general staff resource as needed in support of the Institute's missions. I also tend to write parenthetically. I've found this list to be an excellent resource, and I learn something new here every day (and get a few chuckles, to boot). Thanks to all the other contributors for their shared wit and wisdom. Mike Sturgeon Safety Officer Midwest Research Institute Kansas City, Missouri msturgeon@mriresearch.org -----Original Message----- From: Bob Burns [SMTP:rburns@BIGFOOT.COM] Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 8:02 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Lighter (?) note I don't know if this is a true story or not, but it's kind of fun. Enjoy! TOKYO --What do an unemployed stockbroker, a karaoke bar and a beer company have in common? They are all involved in lawsuits over a beer that fizzles from hydrogen. The Asaka Beer corporation brews "Suiso" brand beer, where the carbon dioxide normally has been replaced by the hydrogen gas which provides a fun side effect of increasing the voice and thus has made the beer extremely popular at karaoke sing-along bars. Hydrogen, like helium, is a gas lighter than air. Exploiting this quirk of physics, men can now sing soprano parts on karaoke sing-along machines after consuming a big gulp of Suiso beer. The flammable nature of hydrogen has also become popular as singer ignite flames from their mouth using a cigarette. Mr. Otoma, a now out-of-work stockbroker is suing the Tike-Take Karaoke bar and the Asaka brewery for selling toxic substances and is claiming damages for grievous bodily harm leading to the loss of his job. The bar is countersuing for defamation and loss of customers. "Mr. Otoma has no-one to blame but himself. If he had not become drunk and disorderly, none of this would have happened. Our security guards undergo the most careful screening and training before they are allowed to deal with customers," said the manager of the Tike-Take bar. It seems Mr. Otoma drank fifteen bottles of hydrogen beer so he could maximize the size of the flames he could belch during a singing contest. He catapulted balls of fire across the room but was unable to win first prize since the judgement is made on the quality of the flames and that of the singing. He apparently was singing badly out of tune after fifteen bottles of the bubbly beer. Taking offense at his loss he belched blue fireballs at the judge which burned off her eyebrows, lashes and ruined her clothes not to mention her hairdo. Mr. Otoma was unapproachable by security guards as he was quite literally a fire-breathing dragon. A swift guard swept his feet out from under him. The manager continues, "The laws of physics are not to be disobeyed, and the force that propelled Mr. Otoma's legs backwards also pivoted around his center of gravity and moved his upper body forward with equal velocity. It was his own fault he had his mouth open for the next belch, his own fault he held a lighted cigarette in front of it and it is own fault he swallowed that cigarette." The Tike-Take bar assumes no responsibility for the subsequent internal combustion, rupture of his stomach lining, nor the third degree burns to his esophagus, larynx and sinuses as the exploding gases forced their way out of his body. His consequential muteness and loss of employment are, according to the manager, "his own fault." "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D Specialty Chemicals Division RUETGERS Organics Corporation 201 Struble Road State College, PA 16801 phone 814-231-9214 fax 814-238-1567 email rburns@bigfoot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:09:23 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Re: Laboratory Liability Issues In-Reply-To: <01BE3F9C.BE006EA0.swiki@bihs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Worth emphasizing that sovereign immunity does NOT extend to private institutions. Also, if the four points of negligence (injury, duty to act, breach of duty, injury caused by breach of duty), state of mind may not be an issue. Sovereign immunity has been waived in the past (via voluntary out-of-court settlements, I believe) when public outcry has been great enough to frighten public officials. Even if immunity isn't waived, the perceptual damage is done. As an example of PR damage without litigation, I point to my institution and the incident which created my position - chem lab fire in 10/96. I agree completely that liability should not be the driving force behind anything we do (I wish the same were true of health care, where about 50% f of what we do in EMS is lawyer-driven), but everyone must face public perception, which influences budget (especially in a public institution). I try to remind our folks of the range of consequences resulting from carelessness. JNR >As has been explained to me by several attorney friends, the state of >Texas, and I am sure many others like it, enjoys sovereign immunity which >extends to the professors. Hence if someone is hurt in a state/university >lab and a plaintiff can prove malice on the part of the supervisor, it is >useless to pursue any individual liability issues. Also in Texas, unless >the legislature passes a bill authorizing funds to be paid to an injured >party, no collection is possible regardless of the outcome of a trial, in >at least our state courts. Proving malice means proving a mind set at the >time of an accident. My suggestion regarding this is to forget the >training and not waste the time, no state employee will ever have to pay a >price for someone else's injury. > >Now, as has also been explained to me by several attorney friends with >regards to liability with state institutions, if a consulting engineer >designs a system that is defective or specifies a laboratory air flow >control system that has known defectives, with publication of the known >defects supported in the open literature, the engineer that makes use of >the system in his design and the manufacturer of the defective system can >both be held liable for property damage and personal injury in certain >circumstance. The circumstances include causes of action under product >liability and deceptive trade practice laws. Given the fact that most >engineer do not build lab mock-up and test laboratory air flow and control >concepts, many consulting engineers who work in the lab arena are now >finding themselves as targets in chronic personal injury lawsuits. > >Lab building design in the private sector where sovereign immunity is not >enjoyed makes for many more target of opportunity. Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS College of Natural Sciences G2500 W.C. Hogg Building University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712-1199 (512) 471-6176 (O) (512) 471-4998 (F) jrubin@mail.utexas.edu "The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise specified." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:39:08 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Debbie Decker Subject: Re: Lurking Members In-Reply-To: <369CACB0.D94C576@chubb.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:24 AM 1/13/99 -0500, you wrote: >Just another formal introduction from a lurking member. I am the safety >consultant for a biotech self-insurance group. As such, I have a >background in both the biotech industry and worker's compensation >insurance. Right now we are working at developing an ergonomics >training program for the group that's specific to laboratory >work. Our ergodudette has just put up some new stuff on her ergo website about laboratory ergonomics - http://ehs.ucdavis.edu/ergback/ It's pretty cool - I think it has pics of good ergonomic practices for the lab. Hope this helps, Debbie Decker EH&S UCDavis (530)754-7964 dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:36:34 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Wight, Hugh" Subject: Hood Decontamination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Is anyone out there aware of an alternative method for biosafety cabinet decontamination other than evolving paraformaldehyde/formaldehyde fumes? Hugh Wight Safety Officer Aquila Biopharmaceuticals, Inc. Framingham, MA 01702 (508) 766-2733 hwight@aquilabio.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:54:33 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ray Campbell Subject: Re: Lurking Members In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990114083908.007ab320@scarlet.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I believe that Ergodudette should be capitalized. At 08:39 AM 1/14/99 -0800, you wrote: >At 09:24 AM 1/13/99 -0500, you wrote: >>Just another formal introduction from a lurking member. I am the safety >>consultant for a biotech self-insurance group. As such, I have a >>background in both the biotech industry and worker's compensation >>insurance. Right now we are working at developing an ergonomics >>training program for the group that's specific to laboratory >>work. > >Our ergodudette has just put up some new stuff on her ergo website about >laboratory ergonomics - http://ehs.ucdavis.edu/ergback/ It's pretty cool >- I think it has pics of good ergonomic practices for the lab. > >Hope this helps, > >Debbie Decker >EH&S UCDavis >(530)754-7964 >dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:51:55 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Ahler Subject: Re: Laboratory Liability Issues In-Reply-To: <01BE3F9C.BE006EA0.swiki@bihs.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Re:" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good Morning NACHO, This can't be left floating out there without comment. A recent contribution stated: " Also in Texas, unless > the legislature passes a bill authorizing funds to be paid to an injured > party, no collection is possible regardless of the outcome of a trial, in > at least our state courts. Proving malice means proving a mind set at the > time of an accident. My suggestion regarding this is to forget the > training and not waste the time, no state employee will ever have to pay a > price for someone else's injury." > If this is a sincere statement of policy or intent, it borders on being criminal. Whether or not it is true that state employees will have to pay a price for injuries to others, this should never be the criteria used to decide on training needs. Training should never be provided solely for the purpose or protecting the financial security of the trainer - or consciously withheld if the trainer sees no apparent risk to his bank account. I'll stop before my keyboard breaks from my pounddding on it. Thanks. Michael Ahler, CHO Risk Management Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, California ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:54:44 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: Laboratory Liability Issues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I certainly agree. Consider the source. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Ahler To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 11:52 Subject: Re: Laboratory Liability Issues >Good Morning NACHO, >This can't be left floating out there without comment. A recent >contribution stated: > >" Also in Texas, unless >> the legislature passes a bill authorizing funds to be paid to an >injured >> party, no collection is possible regardless of the outcome of a trial, >in >> at least our state courts. Proving malice means proving a mind set at >the >> time of an accident. My suggestion regarding this is to forget the >> training and not waste the time, no state employee will ever have to >pay a >> price for someone else's injury." >> > >If this is a sincere statement of policy or intent, it borders on being >criminal. Whether or not it is true that state employees will have to >pay a price for injuries to others, this should never be the criteria >used to decide on training needs. > >Training should never be provided solely for the purpose or protecting >the financial security of the trainer - or consciously withheld if the >trainer sees no apparent risk to his bank account. > >I'll stop before my keyboard breaks from my pounddding on it. >Thanks. > >Michael Ahler, CHO >Risk Management >Cal Poly >San Luis Obispo, California > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:29:41 -0500 Reply-To: hontzb3@SERVAL.UOFS.EDU Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Barbara Hontz Organization: University of Scranton Subject: Re: Bio lab compliance MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit My name is Barbara Hontz, and I am a BIology Stockroom manager/supervisor at the University of Scranton. We are a small University with about 4500 students. OUr department has about 375 majors in biology overall. My best argument in maintaining safety standards in bio labs is to keep a unified front. That is to say that I tell all of my faculty and Graduate assistants that there is to be no food or drink in labs. I try to use the Chemistry department as an example and point out that there is no difference in the safety rules.. clothing or otherwise.. between the departments. Anyway, that is my two cents. This works about 97% of the time. I still have Bio faculty who have no problem with wearing sandals in a microbiology lab! Barbara Hontz University of Scranton Department of Biology 570-941-7558 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:51:23 -0600 Reply-To: "msturgeon@mriresearch.org" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike Sturgeon Organization: MRI Subject: Re: Lurking Members I believe the pc term is "Ergodudeperson". MES -----Original Message----- From: Ray Campbell [SMTP:ray.campbell@SPP.VARIAN.COM] Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 10:55 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Lurking Members I believe that Ergodudette should be capitalized. At 08:39 AM 1/14/99 -0800, you wrote: >At 09:24 AM 1/13/99 -0500, you wrote: >>Just another formal introduction from a lurking member. I am the safety >>consultant for a biotech self-insurance group. As such, I have a >>background in both the biotech industry and worker's compensation >>insurance. Right now we are working at developing an ergonomics >>training program for the group that's specific to laboratory >>work. > >Our ergodudette has just put up some new stuff on her ergo website about >laboratory ergonomics - http://ehs.ucdavis.edu/ergback/ It's pretty cool >- I think it has pics of good ergonomic practices for the lab. > >Hope this helps, > >Debbie Decker >EH&S UCDavis >(530)754-7964 >dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:38:37 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike Pirrello Subject: Re: Lurking Members MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" And here I always thought the term was "ergonomeister"... By way of introduction, I'm the Safety & Environmental Manager (and as of Jan. 1 the Facilities Manager) for a small biotechnology firm that does anti-viral research (check us out at http://www.trimeris.com) . I'm the RSO, BSO, and CHO. My background is chemistry that developed into a career in chemical waste, spill response, and other environmental stuff. Reading the bio on other lurking members has been fun, but has got me to wondering if there's not a directory or list of everyone who's subscribed to this mail list... Michael G. Pirrello, CHMM Safety & Environmental Mgr. Trimeris, Inc. 4727 University Drive, Ste. 100 Durham, NC 27707-3485 Ph: (919) 419-6050 Fx: (919) 419-1816 Mpirrello@trimeris.com -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sturgeon [SMTP:msturgeon@mriresearch.org] Subject: Re: Lurking Members I believe the pc term is "Ergodudeperson". -----Original Message----- From: Ray Campbell [SMTP:ray.campbell@SPP.VARIAN.COM] Subject: Re: Lurking Members I believe that Ergodudette should be capitalized. > >Our ergodudette has just put up some new stuff on her ergo website about >laboratory ergonomics - http://ehs.ucdavis.edu/ergback/ It's pretty cool >- I think it has pics of good ergonomic practices for the lab. > >Hope this helps, > >Debbie Decker >EH&S UCDavis >(530)754-7964 >dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:46:49 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Hg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We just got notified we have a small amount of Hg in our waste water from the labs. some of these labs have been here for at least 40 years. I suspect there is some Hg in sink drain traps somewhere. I am suggesting we have all the traps cleaned out. anybody have any other suggestions? Bob "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D Specialty Chemicals Division RUETGERS Organics Corporation 201 Struble Road State College, PA 16801 phone 814-231-9214 fax 814-238-1567 email rburns@bigfoot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:57:46 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike Pirrello Subject: Re: Hg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain If I remember correctly, there was a great presentation on precisely this topic at the 1995 (13th Annual) College and University Hazardous Waste Conference. I don't have my proceedings binder here at work, but perhaps someone else could dig up the name/contact info of the presenter? Michael G. Pirrello, CHMM Safety & Environmental Mgr. Trimeris, Inc. Mpirrello@trimeris.com -----Original Message----- From: Bob Burns [SMTP:rburns@BIGFOOT.COM] Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 1:47 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Hg We just got notified we have a small amount of Hg in our waste water from the labs. some of these labs have been here for at least 40 years. I suspect there is some Hg in sink drain traps somewhere. I am suggesting we have all the traps cleaned out. anybody have any other suggestions? Bob "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D Specialty Chemicals Division RUETGERS Organics Corporation 201 Struble Road State College, PA 16801 phone 814-231-9214 fax 814-238-1567 email rburns@bigfoot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:29:26 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Re: Hg In-Reply-To: <00a301be3fee$3e9a0480$0100007f@BBURNS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is only peripherally related, but what are people doing about "old" fluorescent lamps? How have you dealt with storing the old ones as they're being replaced? Thanks, JNR >We just got notified we have a small amount of Hg in our waste water from >the labs. some of these labs have been here for at least 40 years. I >suspect there is some Hg in sink drain traps somewhere. I am suggesting we >have all the traps cleaned out. > >anybody have any other suggestions? > >Bob > >"Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS College of Natural Sciences G2500 W.C. Hogg Building University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712-1199 (512) 471-6176 (O) (512) 471-4998 (F) jrubin@mail.utexas.edu "The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise specified." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:13:32 -0600 Reply-To: "msturgeon@mriresearch.org" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike Sturgeon Organization: MRI Subject: Re: Laboratory Liability Issues While Swiki A. Anderson, Ph.D., P.E. is a grown-up and capable of offering his own explanation of that statement, and not to advocate any position with regard to the same, what I thought Dr. Anderson was saying was that the portion of the safety training emphasizing liability issues should be forgotten. Dr. Anderson? Mike Sturgeon Safety Officer Midwest Research Institute Kansas City, Missouri -----Original Message----- From: Michael Ahler [SMTP:Ahler_Michael_D/cpslo_employee1@POLYMAIL.CPUNIX.CALPOLY.EDU] Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 10:52 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Laboratory Liability Issues Good Morning NACHO, This can't be left floating out there without comment. A recent contribution stated: " Also in Texas, unless > the legislature passes a bill authorizing funds to be paid to an injured > party, no collection is possible regardless of the outcome of a trial, in > at least our state courts. Proving malice means proving a mind set at the > time of an accident. My suggestion regarding this is to forget the > training and not waste the time, no state employee will ever have to pay a > price for someone else's injury." > If this is a sincere statement of policy or intent, it borders on being criminal. Whether or not it is true that state employees will have to pay a price for injuries to others, this should never be the criteria used to decide on training needs. Training should never be provided solely for the purpose or protecting the financial security of the trainer - or consciously withheld if the trainer sees no apparent risk to his bank account. I'll stop before my keyboard breaks from my pounddding on it. Thanks. Michael Ahler, CHO Risk Management Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, California ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:55:23 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Debbie Decker Subject: Re: sillliness Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ergodudette ergonomeister Ergodudeperson (pc version) Ergodudette (capitalized) You guys are killing me :-) And to add to the silliness, "ergonut" is one I've heard recently. For the record, her name is Janet and she succeeds in making the slothful slugs in the office feel guilty by eating right and exercising. Walks the walk, I tell ya . Very smart cookie and all-around nice person. Cheers, Deb. Debbie Decker EH&S UCDavis (530)754-7964 dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:58:25 EST Reply-To: "Karcz-ENV, Timothy" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Karcz-ENV, Timothy" Subject: Re: Hg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bob, we always stress source reduction of Hg first, but since there are so many hospitals out there with ancient piping, it's obvious that a good amount of Hg is in there seeping out, no matter how much source reduction you do. So the state of Massachusetts did some testing of end of pipe collection devices, and only one got discharge levels below the 1 ppb limit allowed by the Massachusetts Water Resources Authority, which serves Metro Boston. Solmetex of Billerica, MA is the company (978) 262-9890. They service the system, also. As far as fluorescent bulbs, there are plenty if companies out there that will reclaim the Hg from the bulbs. Hope this helps, Tim Karcz Massachusetts Office of Technical Assistance for Toxics Use Reduction ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:00:31 -0600 Reply-To: sheri.prosch@Mankato.MSUS.EDU Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Sheri Prosch Subject: Re: Hg In-Reply-To: <21A08BD4481AD1118D8900805F29067D1C5E9D@TRIMERISEX1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII The presenter was Marc B. Daniels, Hazardous Material Disposal Specialist with the U of MN. I'll fax Bob a copy. Sheri Prosch, CCHO Minnesota State University, Mankato MSU 76 PO Box 8400 Mankato, MN 56002-8400 (507)389-5568 sheri.prosch@Mankato.MSUS.EDU _________________ On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:57:46 -0500 Mike Pirrello wrote: > If I remember correctly, there was a great presentation on precisely this > topic at the 1995 (13th Annual) College and University Hazardous Waste > Conference. I don't have my proceedings binder here at work, but perhaps > someone else could dig up the name/contact info of the presenter? > > Michael G. Pirrello, CHMM > Safety & Environmental Mgr. > Trimeris, Inc. > Mpirrello@trimeris.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Burns [SMTP:rburns@BIGFOOT.COM] > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 1:47 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Hg > > We just got notified we have a small amount of Hg in our waste water > from > the labs. some of these labs have been here for at least 40 years. > I > suspect there is some Hg in sink drain traps somewhere. I am > suggesting we > have all the traps cleaned out. > > anybody have any other suggestions? > > Bob > > "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" > > Robert L. Burns > Group Leader, R&D > Specialty Chemicals Division > RUETGERS Organics Corporation > 201 Struble Road > State College, PA 16801 > phone 814-231-9214 > fax 814-238-1567 > email rburns@bigfoot.com ---------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:33:11 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Nick Pinizzotto Subject: Re: Hg Comments: To: sheri.prosch@Mankato.MSUS.EDU In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sheri, I suppose cleaning the traps would help But I'd like to add that many years ago we had a demolition project in one of our old research labs. When they cut the horizontal runs of waste lines. It rained mercury! Total volume was over1/2 gallon, can't remember the weight just that is was heavy. And talk about forever cleaning it up! I guess what I'm saying is that it will lay in the horizontal lines with old plumbing because the inside is not smooth. Nick Pinizzotto Environmental Health Officer Dept. Environmental Health & Safety Thomas Jefferson University nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu 215-503-5853 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:55:55 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Dr. Linda A. Swihart" Subject: raining Hg In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I suppose cleaning the traps would help But I'd like to add that many years >ago we had a demolition project in one of our old research labs. When they cut >the horizontal runs of waste lines. It rained mercury! Total volume was >over1/2 gallon, can't remember the weight just that is was heavy. And talk >about forever cleaning it up! I guess what I'm saying is that it will lay in >the horizontal lines with old plumbing because the inside is not smooth. I second Nick's caution, and can't emphasize it enough. We have had soooooo many incidents like this over the years (I think maybe we're done now, having the incidents, that is). It seemed that no matter how many times you told the plumbers to TAKE CARE and not spill the mercury, they *always* did. Even when they were trying to be careful, even when they weren't cutting horizontal runs. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:08:54 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mark Yanchisin Subject: Re: raining Hg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" We have also had too many of these and instituted a policy and procedure that has all plumbing traps and lines dumped into buckets for inspection. They are responsible for inspecting it. If any mercury is found, it is handled by our Haz Waste crew. We will not accept any non-inspected buckets of dirty water, so the workers usually handle it OK. We get maybe 3 contaminated buckets a year. This has been written into the Construction and Demolition Standards and is for all workers, UF Physical Plant and outside contractors. If a UF Physical Plant staffer dumps the mercury on the ground because they did not use a bucket, it is potential for disciplinary action. If it is a contractor, they pay for the clean up. This has worked well for at least 5 years, but now that I mention it, who knows what tomorrow will bring!! Mark Yanchisin Coordinator for Clinical and Lab Safety Programs University of Florida Env. Health and Safety PO Box 112190 Gainesville, FL 32611-2190 352-846-2550 (T) 352-392-7386 (F) Mark@ehs.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:09:40 -0600 Reply-To: "swiki@bihs.net" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Swiki A. Anderson" Organization: Swiki Anderson & Associates, Inc. Subject: Re: Laboratory Liability Issues Comments: To: "msturgeon@mriresearch.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sturgeon [SMTP:msturgeon@mriresearch.org] Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 1:14 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Laboratory Liability Issues Thank you , Mr. Sturgeon, for allowing me rebuttal and yes, if adminsitrators do not have any liablity to users of fume hoods, to include faculty, staff and students, why address or fight the issue? What is the detriment to cause positive change or eleminate negative change? We have known that ventilation problems and poor work place practices have been putting users at risk in laboratories since the 1940s and we are still playing games. Refer to the Federal Register, Vol 55, No. 21, Wed. Jan. 31, 1990, pp. 3304, center column and see what it says. This is the primary OSHA standard governing labs!! And it cites lack of proper ventilation. And where are the worse place for this problem? University laboratories of course. Please refer to http://www.saai-svc.com/engineer/html/tech-notes.htm and clidk on "LINKS ..." about the fourth line down this page. Take a few minutes to read what Jim Morris of the Houston Chronicle wrote in "slipshod practices frequently observed in college laboratories" and then his article "Sickening Results" too. Is it criminal, YES. Do I like it, NO. Will the training help? I don't think so. Why? Because it is not a real problem until it become a personal problem. I am reminded of a statement that a friend of mind made when we were trying to sell him engineering retrofit services in a laboratory that I worked in some years while I was in colleges. The labs were sick and when I ask him about improvement, he said why, hell they hadn't killed him after 20 years! When I went back about 5 years later and ask where he was, they said something like didn't your know, he died of cancer, same thing like about 14 other folks that worked in the lab died from. See, it was not his problem initially. Swiki Anderson While Swiki A. Anderson, Ph.D., P.E. is a grown-up and capable of offering his own explanation of that statement, and not to advocate any position with regard to the same, what I thought Dr. Anderson was saying was that the portion of the safety training emphasizing liability issues should be forgotten. Dr. Anderson? Mike Sturgeon Safety Officer Midwest Research Institute Kansas City, Missouri " Also in Texas, unless the legislature passes a bill authorizing funds to be paid to an injured party, no collection is possible regardless of the outcome of a trial, in at least our state courts. Proving malice means proving a mind set at the time of an accident. My suggestion regarding this is to forget the training and not waste the time, no state employee will ever have to pay a price for someone else's injury." > If this is a sincere statement of policy or intent, it borders on being criminal. Whether or not it is true that state employees will have to pay a price for injuries to others, this should never be the criteria used to decide on training needs. Training should never be provided solely for the purpose or protecting the financial security of the trainer - or consciously withheld if the trainer sees no apparent risk to his bank account. I'll stop before my keyboard breaks from my pounddding on it. Thanks. Michael Ahler, CHO Risk Management Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, California ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:37:02 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Ahler Subject: Liability - interesting stuff Comments: cc: thasting@calpoly.edu, dragsdal@calpoly.edu, jrisser@calpoly.edu, shatton@polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Liability" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings Again, Several comments on this list indicate to me that everyone is interested in how much liability there may be for themselves and/of for their employer. There is no simple answer nor even a modestly complicated one. But here are some things I have found that may help shed some light. Comments on Liability: I have shared ( verbally) with our campus Risk Manager the high points of the recent thread on Liability . He has suggested I share with NACHO readers how the liability issue is managed here ( and at all California State University Campuses, I presume). I am told it is the university's intent to defend and pay any damages for an employee in a civil complaint where the plaintiff's claim involves actions which were within the employee's course and scope of employment. Note that the word used here is CIVIL complaint, not CRIMINAL complaint. This defense would include the payment of a settlement or judgement where the defense was not successful. Most often this involves a settlement out of court, and we have been involved in a number of these. In a case where the action in question (employees action/inaction which is the basis of the complaint) is determined to be outside the scope of the employee's work, then the university may choose to separate itself from the defendant. How is this likely to happen? I actually have a couple of real incidents to illustrate the possibilities. 1. (This one happened here a few years ago.) A student working with a table saw in a university shop, working on a bonafide project, cuts off a couple of fingers with the saw. A claim is filed against the university and the technician who "runs" the shop where the saw is. The kick back/blade guard on the saw had been removed by the technician, and this fact caused the university administration to decide that, if this case had gone to court, the claim against the individual technician would have been separated from the university. The act of removing a guard that is easily identified as a required safety device was seen as being outside the scope of the technician's employment. This case was actually settled out of court, and the issue of separation of the technician from the case didn't fully develop. The results of litigation really can be quite variable. He eventually retired, but not, as far as I know, as a result of this event. 2. ( This happened at another university and more recently) The Theater Arts Department has a secondary performance venue off campus ( "downtown") that they often use, but there is no scenery shop there. Scenery is constructed in the campus shop and taken to the downtown theater site on a campus flat-bed truck. One day the campus flat-bed truck broke down, so the instructor in charge rented a similar truck from a local vehicle rental company and gave the keys to the department technician to take the scenery downtown. On this trip the technician driver had a collision in downtown traffic which totaled a taxi, damaged a city transit bus, and did $9000 worth of damage to the rented truck he was driving. The university now had claims against it from the taxi company, the city ( bus authority) and the vehicle rental company. The university chose to pay the claims made by the taxi company and the city. It was seen as a reasonable activity and within the scope of everyone's employment to be engaged in transporting scenery to the downtown location. The university chose to separate the claim from the truck rental company. The instructor who rented the truck was left personally liable for the $9000 damage to it. The instructor who rented the truck signed for all the liability insurance the rental company offered at the time, but the act of giving the keys to another driver ( the technician was unknown to the rental company) placed this part of the incident outside the instructor's scope of employment. If the renting instructor had been driving the truck himself, would the university have paid the truck claim also? Probably so, I'm told. Would the university have paid the truck claim if the driver's license had not been an expired one? Probably not, I'm told. There really isn't a rule I can find that will predict whether a specific employee will be defended by the university in a specific incident, but this is what the playing field looks like. Sometimes I am asked the question, " What will happen to me if I don't do this?" - meaning the questioner doesn't do the thing presently identified as what's needed to be in compliance. The answer is : Whatever the jury decides. Does this help? Thanks for listening. Michael Ahler, CHO mahler@calpoly.edu Risk Management Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, California ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:02:26 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Russel Shearer Subject: A lurking member with a question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" People I work for the University of San Francisco as their Environmental Safety Specialist. I am the CHO, the RSO, and any other acronized environmental suffix my boss chooses to tack on. I have a background (degree) in Environmental Science and a credential (MS) in Environemtal Management. I know I have the best job on campus by a long shot. Here at USF we have one science building that was built back in the mid '50's. There are plans afoot to renovate several (hopefully all) of the laboratories in that building. I was asked the other day by our Chief Engineer about lab design seminars. Do any of the non-lurking members on the LABSAFETY list know of lab design seminars that would be helpful to a facility maintenance engineer and a CHO? Thanks everybody for a helpful and entertaining list. Russel Shearer Environmental Safety Specialist shearerr@usfca.edu Environmental Safety Office University of San Francisco (415) 422-6883 Telephone (415) 422-2998 Fax "Have a nice day" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:59:44 +200 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Conrad Bosch Organization: National Centre Occupational Health Subject: Re: New Member Introductions In-Reply-To: <752a0992.369b422e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi all! My name is Conrad Bosch. I hold a degree in environmental health. I am currently employed in the occupational hygiene section of the National Centre for Occupational Health, Johannesburg, South- Africa. Our section provides technical assistance on occupational hygiene issues. We also perform Health Risk Assessments, Surveys and Research. In short I am responsible to evaluate workplaces for their compliance with Health and Safety Legislation and comment on control measures. Thus the interest in laboratories and it's health and safety aspects! Kind Regards to all fellow members, Conrad Bosch Occupational Hygienist National Centre for Occupational Health Johannesburg 2000 (South-Africa) cbosch@ncoh.pwv.gov.za ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 03:09:33 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: A lurking member with a question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You missed a good lab design seminar at the San Francisco ACS meeting. Perhaps you can dig up the abstracts on the ACS web site at ACS.org, I think. To get you started until another seminar shows up is the book: Guidelines for Laboratory Design, Health & Safety Considerations, 2nd ed, '94, Wiley, Interscience, by Louis DiBerardinis, Janet Baum, et al. Lou is the IH at MIT and chaired the ANSI fume hood ventilation committee. Janet is a chemist and an architect specializing in laboratory bldgs, new and renovated--many of them award winning. You have a lot of thinking thru to do before or as you speak to the architect. Maybe Janet's office in St Louis can let you know when and where she will be lecturing. This is not a do it yourself project. Good luck, Mary Ann At 04:02 PM 1/14/99 -0800, you wrote: >People >I work for the University of San Francisco as their Environmental Safety >Specialist. I am the CHO, the RSO, and any other acronized environmental >suffix my boss chooses to tack on. I have a background (degree) in >Environmental Science and a credential (MS) in Environemtal Management. I >know I have the best job on campus by a long shot. > >Here at USF we have one science building that was built back in the mid >'50's. There are plans afoot to renovate several (hopefully all) of the >laboratories in that building. I was asked the other day by our Chief >Engineer about lab design seminars. Do any of the non-lurking members on >the LABSAFETY list know of lab design seminars that would be helpful to a >facility maintenance engineer and a CHO? > >Thanks everybody for a helpful and entertaining list. > >Russel Shearer >Environmental Safety Specialist >shearerr@usfca.edu >Environmental Safety Office >University of San Francisco >(415) 422-6883 Telephone >(415) 422-2998 Fax > >"Have a nice day" > Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority Past Chair, DivCHAS, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:13:18 EST Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Rich Bowen Subject: Introduction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In one of my first mailings Jim recommended that I introduce myself to all of you since I have just signed on to NACHO. I have been the unofficial (it's my job but you're not getting paid) CHO for the Pennsbury School District in Fairless Hills PA for the past two years. Just last week I heard that they were going to make my job official. I am one of 5 chemistry teachers at the high school (11- 12 grades) in a science department with 16 teachers. My responsibilities also encompass the Graphics Arts, the Art, and the Photo Science Departments at the high school as well as the 9 - 10th grade building with their 10 or so teachers and the 3 middle schools with another dozen teachers. Why is it that the more I read this the more overwhelming the job becomes? From what I have seen of the "List" so far there are not many high school people on it unless they, like me, are sitting in the wings just watching and learning. I look forward to taking a more active role in what I am doing and am greatful for all of you establishing this virtual community of people with like interests and concerns. By the way I took Jim's workshop 2 years ago in San Marcus, Texas and heartily recommend it to anyone becoming a CHO/Safety person. Rich Bowen chmtchr@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:24:51 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike Pirrello Subject: Lab Design Seminar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain You may want to check with the Harvard School of Public Health at http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/ccpe/ccpe.html or contedu@sph.harvard.edu or (617) 432-1171 They held a class called "Guidelines for Laboratory Design: Health and Safety Considerations" in April, 1998, and perhaps might hold one again in 1999. I have not attended their seminars, and therefore can neither recommend nor try to dissuade you from taking one. You may also want to get in touch with Suzanne Howard and Tom Fuller (Boston College) or Janet Baum (HERA, Inc.). They gave an excellent presentation on this topic at the 1998 NEW Safety Conference that included a whole slew of articles and a nice bibliography. Michael G. Pirrello, CHMM Safety & Environmental Mgr. Trimeris, Inc. Mpirrello@trimeris.com -----Original Message----- From: Russel Shearer [SMTP:shearerr@USFCA.EDU] Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 7:02 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: A lurking member with a question People I work for the University of San Francisco as their Environmental Safety Specialist. I am the CHO, the RSO, and any other acronized environmental suffix my boss chooses to tack on. I have a background (degree) in Environmental Science and a credential (MS) in Environemtal Management. I know I have the best job on campus by a long shot. Here at USF we have one science building that was built back in the mid '50's. There are plans afoot to renovate several (hopefully all) of the laboratories in that building. I was asked the other day by our Chief Engineer about lab design seminars. Do any of the non-lurking members on the LABSAFETY list know of lab design seminars that would be helpful to a facility maintenance engineer and a CHO? Thanks everybody for a helpful and entertaining list. Russel Shearer Environmental Safety Specialist shearerr@usfca.edu Environmental Safety Office University of San Francisco (415) 422-6883 Telephone (415) 422-2998 Fax "Have a nice day" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:12:03 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Loomis, Walt" Subject: Hg and member intro Bob, All good suggestions provided as to your mercury problem. You did not indicate whether this was a recent or ongoing occurrence. You can sample the traps using a peristaltic pump with a small diameter tubing to locate specifically which labs the mercury is coming from. However, this can be a major undertaking since you will find more traps than you would suspect. I would also suggest interviewing your staff in all the labs as they probably can point to possible sources. Cleaning the traps as noted with precautions will probably solve your problem for the short term. As to the other question on storage of fluorescent lamps which contain mercury (Jeff). I am located in the great state of Florida which has a FDEP regulation on "Management of Spent Mercury Containing Lamps and Devices Destined for Recycling" [phone 850-488-0300]. They have a fact sheet with some guidance on storage techniques or you can contact the lamp recyclers who generated the information. Try Recyclights (800-831-2852) or MTI-AERC (800-554-2372)-there are many others also. I will admit to being a lurker on the list for quite some time now. Thank you for all the discussion, helps wake me up to areas that I am sure all of us face in our duties from time to time. I have a BS in Chemistry and MS in Environmental Engineering Sciences and work as an Environmental Specialist for our local environmental compliance programs and am also the Safety Officer/CHO for our City's Water Quality Division. Seems like many of us wear many hats, SO/CHO one of those I stumbled into. Walt Loomis City of Tallahassee Water Quality Division (850-891-1227) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:20:57 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Naomi Kelly Subject: Re: Lab Design Seminar In-Reply-To: <21A08BD4481AD1118D8900805F29067D1C5EA4@TRIMERISEX1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have attended the lab design class at the Harvard School of Public Health. I highly recommend it. When I attended, there was an almost even mix of architects, engineers and safety professionals which was quite beneficial--it certainly made the workshops interesting! The course is a week long, but well worth it. At 09:24 AM 1/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >You may want to check with the Harvard School of Public Health at >http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/ccpe/ccpe.html > >or >contedu@sph.harvard.edu >or >(617) 432-1171 > >They held a class called "Guidelines for Laboratory Design: Health and >Safety Considerations" in April, 1998, and perhaps might hold one again in >1999. >I have not attended their seminars, and therefore can neither recommend nor >try to dissuade you from taking one. > >You may also want to get in touch with Suzanne Howard and Tom Fuller (Boston >College) or Janet Baum (HERA, Inc.). They gave an excellent presentation on >this topic at the 1998 NEW Safety Conference that included a whole slew of >articles and a nice bibliography. > >Michael G. Pirrello, CHMM >Safety & Environmental Mgr. >Trimeris, Inc. >Mpirrello@trimeris.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Russel Shearer [SMTP:shearerr@USFCA.EDU] > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 7:02 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: A lurking member with a question > > People > I work for the University of San Francisco as their Environmental >Safety > Specialist. I am the CHO, the RSO, and any other acronized >environmental > suffix my boss chooses to tack on. I have a background (degree) in > Environmental Science and a credential (MS) in Environemtal >Management. I > know I have the best job on campus by a long shot. > > Here at USF we have one science building that was built back in the >mid > '50's. There are plans afoot to renovate several (hopefully all) of >the > laboratories in that building. I was asked the other day by our >Chief > Engineer about lab design seminars. Do any of the non-lurking >members on > the LABSAFETY list know of lab design seminars that would be helpful >to a > facility maintenance engineer and a CHO? > > Thanks everybody for a helpful and entertaining list. > > Russel Shearer > Environmental Safety Specialist > shearerr@usfca.edu > Environmental Safety Office > University of San Francisco > (415) 422-6883 Telephone > (415) 422-2998 Fax > > "Have a nice day" > > Naomi Kelly Environmental Health and Safety nkelly@clemson.edu (864) 656 - 7554 Fax: (864) 656 - 7630 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:45:26 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Tanx! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you, all who responded to my query re Hg. Bob "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D Specialty Chemicals Division RUETGERS Organics Corporation 201 Struble Road State College, PA 16801 phone 814-231-9214 fax 814-238-1567 email rburns@bigfoot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:48:23 +0000 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Herman curtis Subject: Hg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The question of dispopsing of Hg-containing fluorescent bulbs reminded me of the time (several years ago) when I ordered a replacement for a small high pressure Hg lamp. The new lamp came with instructions to return the old one to the company for disposal. I sent it to them as instructed and a few days later I got a phone call asking me what it was all about. When I explained, he said something like " Oh...well...okay." I must have been the first one to ever actually return an old lamp. I always had a vision of that guy hanging up the phone and tossing the Hg lamp into his wastebasket. Herman Curtis Department of Physical Science Cameron University 2800 W Gore Blvd Lawton, OK 73505 hermanc@cameron.edu (580)591-8007 ,(580)581-2323 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:32:27 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Catherine Clay Subject: New Member Introduction Hi everyone, My name is Catherine Clay. I am the Biology Laboratory Specialist at Pima Community College in sunny Tucson, Arizona. I am a member of our district safety committee. One of our constant concerns is safety training. Currently, we are producing a behavior based laboratory safety video which we are writing, producing, and performing in. I am engaging in this new project with the hopes of developing a safety training program to meet our specific needs in the science labs. I have thoroughly enjoyed the ongoing discussions and I hope to be more visible in the future. Does anyone else out there have a cadaver program? If so, What type of preservatives and ventilation are you using. Thanks, Catherine Clay ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:58:48 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Julie O'Brien Subject: Re: Hg Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >The question of dispopsing of Hg-containing fluorescent bulbs >reminded me of the time (several years ago) when I ordered a >replacement for a small high pressure Hg lamp. The new lamp came with >instructions to return the old one to the company for disposal. I >sent it to them as instructed and a few days later I got a phone call >asking me what it was all about. When I explained, he said something >like " Oh...well...okay." I must have been the first one to ever >actually return an old lamp. I always had a vision of that guy >hanging up the phone and tossing the Hg lamp into his wastebasket. I had a similar situation once with a smoke detector. My parents were going to replace theirs. I didn't want them to just throw it away because I knew it contained a small amount of radioactive material. The smoke detector said you could return it to the place of purchase. Well, when we did, the store clerk had no idea what to do with it or why we were concerned about it. I'm sure it was thrown away in the wastebasket. I tried! Julie O'Brien Chemist PCR, Inc. PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 ext. 232 Fax 352-373-7503 afn35210@afn.org Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville PO Box 5951 Gainesville, FL 32627 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:04:24 +0200 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Charles Hellyar Subject: Re: New Member Introductions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4066.7DE5B300" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4066.7DE5B300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Conrad, I am Charles Hellyar working in JHB doing more or less the same. I am not sure if we have met but please phone me on 616-1687 so we can meet over a beer or two. Charles. ---------- From: Conrad Bosch[SMTP:CBosch@NCOH.PWV.GOV.ZA] Sent: 15 January 1999 09:59 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: New Member Introductions Hi all! My name is Conrad Bosch. I hold a degree in environmental health. I am currently employed in the occupational hygiene section of the National Centre for Occupational Health, Johannesburg, South- Africa. Our section provides technical assistance on occupational hygiene issues. We also perform Health Risk Assessments, Surveys and Research. In short I am responsible to evaluate workplaces for their compliance with Health and Safety Legislation and comment on control measures. Thus the interest in laboratories and it's health and safety aspects! Kind Regards to all fellow members, Conrad Bosch Occupational Hygienist National Centre for Occupational Health Johannesburg 2000 (South-Africa) cbosch@ncoh.pwv.gov.za ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:55:14 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: Introduction In-Reply-To: <2cdfb2b5.369f22ce@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Wow!, you do have quite a task. Aside from the list, and JK's workshop join ACS and the Divisions of Chemical Health & Safety and of Education. If you cannot afford ACS dues (~$100+), then you can join DivCHAS as an affiliate, and probably DivEDUC as an affiliate (I'm not sure of their requirements). You should get lots of material which can help you in your now official position. Glad to see art departments are covered in your responsibilities--they are often neglected at the safe chemical use end. Mary Ann At 06:13 AM 1/15/99 EST, you wrote: >In one of my first mailings Jim recommended that I introduce myself to all of >you since I have just signed on to NACHO. I have been the unofficial (it's my >job but you're not getting paid) CHO for the Pennsbury School District in >Fairless Hills PA for the past two years. Just last week I heard that they >were going to make my job official. I am one of 5 chemistry teachers at the >high school (11- 12 grades) in a science department with 16 teachers. My >responsibilities also encompass the Graphics Arts, the Art, and the Photo >Science Departments at the high school as well as the 9 - 10th grade building >with their 10 or so teachers and the 3 middle schools with another dozen >teachers. Why is it that the more I read this the more overwhelming the job >becomes? From what I have seen of the "List" so far there are not many high >school people on it unless they, like me, are sitting in the wings just >watching and learning. I look forward to taking a more active role in what I >am doing and am greatful for all of you establishing this virtual community of >people with like interests and concerns. > >By the way I took Jim's workshop 2 years ago in San Marcus, Texas and heartily >recommend it to anyone becoming a CHO/Safety person. > >Rich Bowen chmtchr@aol.com > Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority Past Chair, DivCHAS, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:59:48 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Julie O'Brien Subject: Re: Introduction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Wow!, you do have quite a task. Aside from the list, and JK's workshop >join ACS and the Divisions of Chemical Health & Safety and of Education. >If you cannot afford ACS dues (~$100+), then you can join DivCHAS as an >affiliate, and probably DivEDUC as an affiliate (I'm not sure of their >requirements). You can join the Division of Chemical Education as an affiliate as well. Dues are about $15. You get their newsletter 3 times per year. The Journal of Chemical Education does not come with the dues. Julie O'Brien Chemist PCR, Inc. PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 ext. 232 Fax 352-373-7503 afn35210@afn.org Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville PO Box 5951 Gainesville, FL 32627 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:46:54 EST Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: New Member Introductions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-01-15 14:56:06 EST, you write: << I am Charles Hellyar working in JHB doing more or less the same. >> What is JHB? ... jim kaufman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:46:26 EST Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: January Membership Drive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi NACHO Members, With all the discussion going on and new members introducing themselves, I thought this would be a good time to kick off the 1999 membership drive. Please tell five of your colleagues about NACHO. Put NACHO on the agenda for the next meeting of your professional organizations and within your department. Send a short message about NACHO to other discussion lists to which you belong. Post a NACHO notice on your hallway bulletin board. Rent a skywriter and .... (ok, I lost it)! You get the idea. ... jim ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at http://www.labsafety.org/ ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:47:11 EST Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Liability - interesting stuff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-01-15 14:25:27 EST, you write: << The act of removing a guard that is easily identified as a required safety device was seen as being outside the scope of the technician's employment. >> How would your campus risk manager distinguish this act from negligence by reason of malfeasance? ... jim ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at http://www.labsafety.org/ ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:35:02 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Justis, Desi" Subject: Lurking Member and cadaver info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I,too, am a lurking member. I am the lab manager for two departments, the Department of Biology and Environmental Science and the Department of Chemistry. I work with 6 bio profs and 3 chems profs. My main responsibilities include ordering, inventory, budgets, lab prep, student-employee supervision, safety(on a small scale) and also teaching 3 different labs. I also have a line in my job description that says "and whatever else the chair deams necessary" which can include just about anything! I have fallen in love with the safety part of my job. I'm hoping the the CHO title will be coming my way soon. CATHERINE CLAY: We have a up-and-coming cadaver program. We are experimenting with preservatives for our cadavers and are having luck with this mixture: Downey fabric softener, small amounts of glycerol and ethanol. During breaks we submerse our guys in this mixture but during the school year we drain the tanks and keep a large garden sprayer full of the stuff to spray on them. Please call and let's compare notes. We also have a immersion table for sale if anyone is interested! I am in awe of all of you! Your knowledge is incredible! Keep writing! Desi Justis Laboratory Manager Department of Biology and Environmental Science Department of Chemistry Lynchburg College justis_c@mail.lynchburg.edu (w)804.544.8361 (f)804.544.8499 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:36:20 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Dave Gelpke Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 11 Jan 1999 to 12 Jan 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi everybody...I have been a subscriber for several months and I work at Packard BioScience Co located in Connecticut. We manufacture nuclear and scientific instrumentation under the names Canberra Industries and Packard Instruments Co, respectively. My responsibilities include safety, environmental and radiation safety. I joined the list when I learned my "expanded" duties will include a proposed chemical R&D lab with all the trimmings. Currently, I am the President of the Connecticut Valley Chapter of American Society of Safety Engineers. The lab safety list is informative and a great resource. (Pass it on) Talk to you soon. Dave Gelpke, CSP Packard BioScience Co dgelpke@canberra.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:41:56 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Julie O'Brien Subject: Sodium amide Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Has anyone had experience disposing of sodium amide? How did your waste handler treat it before shipping it out? As for a formal introduction from a NACHO member, I work as a chemist in the R&D group at PCR, Inc. We manufacture specialty silicon & fluorine compounds for research and large scale manufacturing. I also do work in safety issues, although not in a formal capacity. I basically am a liason between our EHS department and the labs. I serve on our company's Central Safety Committee. I have a BS degree in chemistry from Southwest Missouri State Univ. in Springfield. On the fun side, I'm on the steering committee for a local group trying to build a children's museum in Gainesville. I also am the National Chemistry Week coordinator for our local American Chemical Society section. Julie O'Brien Chemist PCR, Inc. PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 ext. 232 Fax 352-373-7503 afn35210@afn.org Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville PO Box 5951 Gainesville, FL 32627 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:04:54 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Shelly Havlovick Subject: Member introduction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I guess I am one of those lurking members. Sorry, for introduction delay. I work as an Industrial Hygienist at our nuclear facility in Idaho. I work with our laboratories to stay in compliance with the lab standard. I have found many of the correspondences on this list server of value. Email shelly.havlovick@anlw.anl.gov (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( Shelly J. Havlovick Argonne National Laboratory - West P. O. Box 2528 Idaho Falls, Idaho 83403-2528 PH. (208) 533-7653 FAX (208) 533-7344 (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:53:31 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Helen B. Gerhard" Subject: ASPARTAME DANGER? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi All: Perhaps someone can help me with this. I received this from a friend and if it is true, this is of great concern. As a note, I'd heard something similar about this in November 1997 from a health food aficionado. If it is not true, it brings up another concern...the ability of the internet to spread misinformation. Please let me know what you think! Thanks! Helen -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Barr Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 2:36 PM To: Kirsten Stahl; Melva Meyer; Loretta Lewis Subject: FW: Aspartame DEAR FRIENDS - READ THIS AND THEN PLEASE PASS IT ON TO OTHERS - VERY IMPORTANT HEALTH RELATED NEWS WORLD ENVIRONMENTAL CONFERENCE and the MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS FOUNDATION F.D.A. ISSUING FOR COLLUSION WITH MONSANTO Article written by Nancy Markle (1120197) I have spent several days lecturing at the WORLD ENVIRONMENTAL CONFERENCE on "ASPARTAME marketed as 'NutraSweet', 'Equal', and 'Spoonful"'. In the keynote address by the EPA, they announced that there was an epidemic of multiple sclerosis and systemic lupus, and they did not understand what toxin was causing this to be rampant across the United States. I explain that I was there to lecture on exactly that subject. When the temperature of Aspartame exceeds 86 degrees F, the wood alcohol in ASPARTAME coverts to formaldehyde and then to formic acid, which in turn causes metabolic acidosis. Formic acid is the poison found in the sting of fire ants). The methanol toxicity mimics multiple sclerosis; thus people were being diagnosed with having multiple sclerosis in error. The multiple sclerosis is not a death sentence, where methanol toxicity is. In the case of systemic lupus, we are finding it has become almost as rampant as multiple sclerosis, especially in Diet Coke and Diet Pepsi drinkers. Also, with methanol toxicity, the victims usually drink three to four 12 oz. cans of them per day, some even more. In the cases of systemic lupus, which is triggered by ASPARTAME, the victim usually does not know that the aspartame is the culprit. The victim continues its use aggravating the lupus to such a degree, that sometimes it becomes life threatening. When we get people off the aspartame, those with systemic lupus usually become asymptomatic. Unfortunately, we can not reverse this disease. On the other hand, in the case of those diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis, (when in reality, the disease is methanol toxicity), most of the symptoms disappear. We have seen cases where their vision has returned and even their hearing has returned. This also applies to cases of tinnitus. During a lecture I said "If you are using ASPARTAME (NutraSweet, Equal, Spoonful, etc.) and you suffer from fibromyalgia symptoms, spasms, shooting pains, numbness in your legs, cramps, vertigo, dizziness, headaches, tinnitus, joint pain, depression, anxiety attacks, slurred speech, blurred vision, memory loss - you probably have ASPARTAME DISEASE!" People were jumping up during the lecture saying, "I've got this, is it reversible?" It is rampant. Some of the speakers at my lecture were suffering from these symptoms. In one leure attended by the Ambassador of Uganda, he told us that their sugar industry is adding aspartame! He continued by saying that one of the industry leader's son could no longer walk - due in part by product usage! We have a very serious problem. Even a stranger came up to Dr. Espisto(oneof my speakers) and myself and said, #1. Could you tell me why so many people seem to be coming down with MS? #2. During a visit to a hospice, a nurse said that six of her friends, who were heavy Diet Coke addicts, had all been diagnosed with MS. This is beyond coincidence. Here is the problem. There were Congressional Hearings when aspartame was included in 100 different products. Since this initial hearing, there have been two subsequent hearings, but to no avail. Nothing as been done. The drug and chemical lobbies have very deep pockets. Now there are over 5,000 products containing this chemical, and the PATENT HAS EXPIRED!!!!! At the time of this first hearing, people were going blind. The methanol in the aspartame converts to formaldehyde in the retina of the eye. Formaldehyde is grouped in the same class of drugs as cyanide and arsenic-DEADLY POISONS!!! Unfortunately, it just takes longer to quietly kill, but it is killing people and causing all kinds of neurological problems. Aspartame changes the brain's chemistry. It is the reason for severe seizures. This drug changes the dopamine level in the brain. Imagine what this drug does to patients suffering from Parkinson's Disease. This drug also causes Birth Defects. There is absolutely no reason to take this product. It is NOT A DIET PRODUCT!!! The Congressional record said, "It makes you crave carbohydrates and will make you FAT". Dr. Roberts stated that when he got patients off aspartame, their average weight loss was 19 pounds per person. The formaldehyde stores in the fat cells, particularly in the hips and thighs. Aspartame is especially deadly for diabetics. All physicians know what wood alcohol will do to a diabetic. We find that physicians believe that they have patients with retinopathy, when in fact, it is caused by the aspartame. The aspartame keeps the blood sugar level out of control, causing many patients to go into a coma. Unfortunately, many have died. People were telling us at the Conference of the American College of Physicians, that they had relatives that switched from saccharin to an aspartame product and how that relative eventually had gone into a coma. Their physicians could not get the blood sugar levels under control. Thus, the patients suffered acute memory loss and eventually coma and death. Memory loss is due to the fact that aspartic acid and phenylalanine are neurotoxic without the other amino acids found in protein. Thus it goes past the blood brain barrier and deteriorates the neurons of the brain. Dr. Russell Blaylock, neurosurgeon, said, "The ingredients stimulate the neurons of the brain to death, causing brain damage of varying degrees. Dr. Blaylock has written a book entitled "EXCITOTOXINS: THE TASTE THAT KILLS" Health Press 1-800-643-2665). Dr. H.J. Roberts, diabetic specialist and world expert on aspartame poisoning, has also written a book entitled "DEFENSE AGAINST ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE" (1-800-814-9800). Dr. Roberts tells how aspartame poisoning is escalating Alzheimer's Disease, and indeed it is. As the hospice nurse told me, women are being admitted at 30 years of age with Alzheimer's Disease. Dr. Blaylock and Dr. Roberts will be writing a position paper with some case histories and will post it on the Internet. According to the Conference of the American College of Physicians, 'We are talking about a plague of neurological diseases caused by this deadly poison." Dr. Roberts realized what was happening when aspartame was first marketed. He said "his diabetic patients presented memory loss, confusion, and severe vision loss". At the Conference of the American College of Physicians, doctors admitted that they did not know. They had wondered why seizures were rampant (thephenylalanine in aspartame breaks down the seizure threshold and depletes serotonin, which causes manic depression, panic attacks, rage and violence). Just before the Conference, I received a FAX from Norway, asking for a possible antidote for this poison because they are experiencing so many problems in their country. This "poison" is now available in 90 PLUS countries worldwide. Fortunately, we had speakers and ambassadors at the Conference from different nations who have pledged their help. We ask that you help too. Print this article out and warn everyone you know. Take anything that contains aspartame black to the store. Take the "NO ASPARTAME TEST" and send us your case history. I assure you that MONSANTO, the creator of aspartame, knows how deadly it is. They fund the American Diabetes Association, American Dietetic Association, Congress, and the Conference of the American College of Physicians. The New York Times, on November 15, 1996, ran an article on how the American Dietetic Association takes money from the food industry to endorse their products. Therefore, they can not criticize any additives or tell about their link to MONSANTO. How bad is this? We told a mother who had a child on NutraSweet to get off the product. The child was having grand mal seizures every day. The mother called her physician, who called the ADA, who told the doctor not to take the child off the NutraSweet. We are still trying to convince the mother that the aspartame is causing the seizures. Every time we get someone off of aspartame, the seizures stop. If the baby dies, you know whose fault it is, and what we are up against. There are 92 documented symptoms of aspartame, from coma to death. The majority of them are all neurological, because the aspartame destroys the nervous system. Aspartame Disease is partially the cause to what is behind some of the mystery of the Dessert Storm health problems. The burning tongue and other problems discussed in over 60 cases can be directly related to the consumption of an aspartame product. Several thousand pallets of diet drinks were shipped to the Dessert Storm troops. (Remember heat can liberate the methanol from the aspartame at 86 degrees F). Diet drinks sat in the 120 degree F Arabian sun for weeks at a time on pallets. The service men and women drank them all day long. All of their symptoms are identical to aspartame poisoning. Dr. Roberts says "consuming aspartame at the time of conception can cause birth defects". The phenylalanine concentrates in the placenta, causing mental retardation, according to Dr. Louis Elsas, Pediatrician Professor - Genetics, at Emory University in his testimony before Congress. In the original lab tests, animals developed brain tumors (phenylalanine breaks down into DXP, a brain tumor agent). When Dr. Espisto was lecturing on aspartame, one physician in the audience, a neurosurgeon, said, "when they remove brain tumors, they have found high levels of aspartame in them". Stevia, a sweet food, NOT AN ADDITIVE, which helps in the metabolism of sugar, which would be ideal for diabetics, has now been approved as a dietary supplement by the F.D.A. For years, the F.D.A. has outlawed this sweet food because of their loyalty to MONSANTO. If it says "SUGAR FREE" on the label-DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!l! Senator Howard Hetzenbaum wrote a bill that would have warned all infants, pregnant mothers and children of the dangers of aspartame. The bill would have also instituted independent studies on the problems existing in the population (seizures, changes in brain chemistry, changes in neurological and behavioral symptoms). It was killed by the powerful drug and chemical lobbies, letting loose the hounds of disease and death on an unsuspecting public. Since the Conference of the American College of Physicians, we hope to have the help of some world leaders. Again, please help us too. There are a lot of people out there who must be warned, *please* let them know this information._ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:59:31 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Stephen Hemperly Subject: Introduction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Just a brief note of introduction, but, first, I want to say that I really appreciate the discourse on this list. The excellent questions raised are equalled only by the conscientious answers provided. I am an industrial hygienist who works with other EH&S staff members at a computer industry R&D lab. My program areas include laser safety (other nonionizing radiation), ionizing radiation safety, OSHA Laboratory Standard compliance, confined spaces, and bloodborne pathogens. I co-authored the American Industrial Hygiene Association's booklet entitled Laboratory Chemical Hygiene: An AIHA Protocol Guide (I am not plugging this document -- just mentioning it as an indication of my interest in the lab safety and health area). I have also worked as an industrial hygienist for a major HMO (pathology labs were a particular focus of my work there), Cal/OSHA (my inspection activity included a lab or two in my one year with that agency), an industrial hygiene/safety consulting firm (again, some labs included in my travels), and federal OSHA (at least one lab despite the focus on my inspection activity on heavy industrial facilities: steel plants, foundries, metal fabrication shops). While I don't remember the exact year (1977-1982), I do recall a statement made during the course of my closing conference with administration officials of a hospital whose laboratory I had inspected during my tenure with federal OSHA. When informed of apparent violations of one of OSHA's carcinogen standard (regeants for an occult blood test included benzidine), one of the officials said something to the effect that these regulations were something new! I like to think that management everywhere is more aware not only of the regulatory aspects of EH&S but also that one needs to go beyond the regulations in both laboratory and non-laboratory work settings. I wish everyone the best during the coming year and the more distant future. Regards, Stephen Stephen Hemperly, MS, CIH, CSP Almaden Research Center: Environment, Hlth. & Safety Internal e-mail: Stephen Hemperly/Almaden/IBM @ IBMUS VM e-mail: HEMPERLY at ALMADEN Internet address: shemperly@almaden.ibm.com (408) 927-1375 Fax: (408) 927-2100 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:12:08 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: ASPARTAME DANGER? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IMHO this is another urban myth. First of all, there is no methanol in aspartame, which is a dipeptide of aspartic acid and phenyalanine, two amino acids. Secondly, I do believe our government, in the form of FDA, would be all over the case if there was any truth to it at all. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Helen B. Gerhard To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 11:57 Subject: ASPARTAME DANGER? >Hi All: > >Perhaps someone can help me with this. I received this from a friend and if >it is true, this is of great concern. As a note, I'd heard something >similar about this in November 1997 from a health food aficionado. > >If it is not true, it brings up another concern...the ability of the >internet to spread misinformation. Please let me know what you think! > >Thanks! > >Helen > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jennifer Barr >Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 2:36 PM >To: Kirsten Stahl; Melva Meyer; Loretta Lewis >Subject: FW: Aspartame > > > DEAR FRIENDS - READ THIS AND THEN PLEASE PASS IT ON TO OTHERS - VERY >IMPORTANT HEALTH RELATED NEWS >WORLD ENVIRONMENTAL CONFERENCE and the MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS FOUNDATION F.D.A. >ISSUING FOR COLLUSION WITH MONSANTO Article written by Nancy Markle >(1120197) >I have spent several days lecturing at the WORLD ENVIRONMENTAL CONFERENCE on >"ASPARTAME marketed as 'NutraSweet', 'Equal', and 'Spoonful"'. In the >keynote address by the EPA, they announced that there was an epidemic of >multiple sclerosis and systemic lupus, and they did not understand what >toxin was causing this to be rampant across the United States. I explain >that I was there to lecture on exactly that subject. When the temperature of >Aspartame exceeds 86 degrees F, the wood alcohol in ASPARTAME coverts to >formaldehyde and then to formic acid, which in turn causes metabolic >acidosis. Formic acid is the poison found in the sting of fire ants). The >methanol toxicity mimics multiple sclerosis; thus people were being >diagnosed with having multiple sclerosis in error. The multiple sclerosis is >not a death sentence, where methanol toxicity is. In the case of systemic >lupus, we are finding it has become almost as rampant as multiple sclerosis, >especially in Diet Coke and Diet Pepsi drinkers. Also, with methanol >toxicity, the victims usually drink three to four 12 oz. cans of them per >day, some even more. In the cases of systemic lupus, which is triggered by >ASPARTAME, the victim usually does not know that the aspartame is the >culprit. The victim continues its use aggravating the lupus to such a >degree, that sometimes it becomes life threatening. >When we get people off the aspartame, those with systemic lupus usually >become asymptomatic. Unfortunately, we can not reverse this disease. On >the other hand, in the case of those diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis, >(when in reality, the disease is methanol toxicity), most of the symptoms >disappear. We have seen cases where their vision has returned and even their >hearing has returned. This also applies to cases of tinnitus. During a >lecture I said "If you are using ASPARTAME (NutraSweet, Equal, Spoonful, >etc.) and you suffer from fibromyalgia symptoms, spasms, shooting pains, >numbness in your legs, cramps, vertigo, dizziness, headaches, tinnitus, >joint pain, depression, anxiety attacks, slurred speech, blurred vision, >memory loss - you probably have ASPARTAME DISEASE!" People were jumping up >during the lecture saying, "I've got this, is it reversible?" It is rampant. >Some of the speakers at my lecture were suffering from these symptoms. In >one leure attended by the Ambassador of Uganda, he told us that their sugar >industry is adding aspartame! He continued by saying that one of the >industry leader's son could no longer walk - due in part by product usage! >We have a very serious problem. Even a stranger came up to Dr. Espisto(oneof >my speakers) and myself and said, #1. Could you tell me why so many people >seem to be coming down with MS? #2. During a visit to a hospice, a nurse >said that six of her friends, who were heavy Diet Coke addicts, had all been >diagnosed with MS. >This is beyond coincidence. Here is the problem. There were Congressional >Hearings when aspartame was included in 100 different products. Since this >initial hearing, there have been two subsequent hearings, but to no avail. >Nothing as been done. The drug and chemical lobbies have very deep pockets. >Now there are over 5,000 products containing this chemical, and the PATENT >HAS EXPIRED!!!!! At the time of this first hearing, people were going blind. >The methanol in the aspartame converts to formaldehyde in the retina of the >eye. Formaldehyde is grouped in the same class of drugs as cyanide and >arsenic-DEADLY POISONS!!! Unfortunately, it just takes longer to quietly >kill, but it is killing people and causing all kinds of neurological >problems. Aspartame changes the brain's chemistry. It is the reason for >severe seizures. This drug changes the dopamine level in the brain. >Imagine what this drug does to patients suffering from Parkinson's Disease. >This drug also causes Birth Defects. >There is absolutely no reason to take this product. It is NOT A DIET >PRODUCT!!! The Congressional record said, "It makes you crave carbohydrates >and will make you FAT". Dr. Roberts stated that when he got patients off >aspartame, their average weight loss was 19 pounds per person. The >formaldehyde stores in the fat cells, particularly in the hips and thighs. >Aspartame is especially deadly for diabetics. All physicians know what wood >alcohol will do to a diabetic. We find that physicians believe that they >have patients with retinopathy, when in fact, it is caused by the aspartame. >The aspartame keeps the blood sugar level out of control, causing many >patients to go into a coma. Unfortunately, many have died. People were >telling us at the Conference of the American College of Physicians, that >they had relatives that switched from saccharin to an aspartame product and >how that relative eventually had gone into a coma. Their physicians could >not get the blood sugar levels under control. Thus, the patients suffered >acute memory loss and eventually coma and death. Memory loss is due to the >fact that aspartic acid and phenylalanine are neurotoxic without the other >amino acids found in protein. Thus it goes past the blood brain barrier and >deteriorates the neurons of the brain. Dr. Russell Blaylock, neurosurgeon, >said, "The ingredients stimulate the neurons of the brain to death, causing >brain damage of varying degrees. >Dr. Blaylock has written a book entitled "EXCITOTOXINS: THE TASTE THAT >KILLS" Health Press 1-800-643-2665). Dr. H.J. Roberts, diabetic specialist >and world expert on aspartame poisoning, has also written a book entitled >"DEFENSE AGAINST ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE" (1-800-814-9800). Dr. Roberts tells >how aspartame poisoning is escalating Alzheimer's Disease, and indeed it is. >As the hospice nurse told me, women are being admitted at 30 years of age >with Alzheimer's Disease. Dr. Blaylock and Dr. Roberts will be writing a >position paper with some case histories and will post it on the Internet. >According to the Conference of the American College of Physicians, 'We are >talking about a plague of neurological diseases caused by this deadly >poison." Dr. Roberts realized what was happening when aspartame was first >marketed. He said "his diabetic patients presented memory loss, confusion, >and severe vision loss". At the Conference of the American College of >Physicians, doctors admitted that they did not know. >They had wondered why seizures were rampant (thephenylalanine in aspartame >breaks down the seizure threshold and depletes serotonin, which causes manic >depression, panic attacks, rage and violence). Just before the Conference, I >received a FAX from Norway, asking for a possible antidote for this poison >because they are experiencing so many problems in their country. This >"poison" is now available in 90 PLUS countries worldwide. >Fortunately, we had speakers and ambassadors at the Conference from >different nations who have pledged their help. We ask that you help too. >Print this article out and warn everyone you know. Take anything that >contains aspartame black to the store. Take the "NO ASPARTAME TEST" and >send us your case history. I assure you that MONSANTO, the creator of >aspartame, knows how deadly it is. They fund the American Diabetes >Association, American Dietetic Association, Congress, and the Conference of >the American College of Physicians. The New York Times, on November 15, >1996, ran an article on how the American Dietetic Association takes money >from the food industry to endorse their products. Therefore, they can not >criticize any additives or tell about their link to MONSANTO. >How bad is this? We told a mother who had a child on NutraSweet to get off >the product. The child was having grand mal seizures every day. The mother >called her physician, who called the ADA, who told the doctor not to take >the child off the NutraSweet. We are still trying to convince the mother >that the aspartame is causing the seizures. Every time we get someone off of >aspartame, the seizures stop. If the baby dies, you know whose fault it is, >and what we are up against. There are 92 documented symptoms of aspartame, >from coma to death. The majority of them are all neurological, because the >aspartame destroys the nervous system. >Aspartame Disease is partially the cause to what is behind some of the >mystery of the Dessert Storm health problems. The burning tongue and other >problems discussed in over 60 cases can be directly related to the >consumption of an aspartame product. Several thousand pallets of diet drinks >were shipped to the Dessert Storm troops. (Remember heat can liberate the >methanol from the aspartame at 86 degrees F). Diet drinks sat in the 120 >degree F Arabian sun for weeks at a time on pallets. The service men and >women drank them all day long. All of their symptoms are identical to >aspartame poisoning. Dr. Roberts says "consuming aspartame at the time of >conception can cause birth defects". The phenylalanine concentrates in the >placenta, causing mental retardation, according to Dr. Louis Elsas, >Pediatrician Professor - Genetics, at Emory University in his testimony >before Congress. In the original lab tests, animals developed brain tumors >(phenylalanine breaks down into DXP, a brain tumor agent). When Dr. Espisto >was lecturing on aspartame, one physician in the audience, a neurosurgeon, >said, "when they remove brain tumors, they have found high levels of >aspartame in them". >Stevia, a sweet food, NOT AN ADDITIVE, which helps in the metabolism of >sugar, which would be ideal for diabetics, has now been approved as a >dietary supplement by the F.D.A. For years, the F.D.A. has outlawed this >sweet food because of their loyalty to MONSANTO. If it says "SUGAR FREE" on >the label-DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!l! >Senator Howard Hetzenbaum wrote a bill that would have warned all infants, >pregnant mothers and children of the dangers of aspartame. The bill would >have also instituted independent studies on the problems existing in the >population (seizures, changes in brain chemistry, changes in neurological >and behavioral symptoms). It was killed by the powerful drug and chemical >lobbies, letting loose the hounds of disease and death on an unsuspecting >public. Since the Conference of the American College of Physicians, we hope >to have the help of some world leaders. >Again, please help us too. There are a lot of people out there who >must >be warned, *please* let them know this information._ > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:21:48 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Dr. Linda A. Swihart" Subject: Re: ASPARTAME DANGER? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I haven't read everything (and won't), but here's some links: Alta Vista search for "Nancy Markle" gave 46 hits including: http://www.ethicalinvesting.com/monsanto/markle.shtml http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/library/blasp.htm Search of +aspartame +"danger of" gave over 900 hits http://www.tiac.net/users/mgold/aspartame/ Search of +aspartame +hoax gave 45 hits including: http://www.ncahf.org/newslett/newslett.html ("National Council Against Health Fraud") Personally note - Looks like you could spend the next month or two reading this stuff. I quit drinking diet soda about a year and a half ago, at least on a regular basis, due to some superstitious hunch that it could be bas. I was drinking too much of it, about a can per day. Several months later I saw my first doom-and-dread warnings about the dangers of aspartame. I stumbled (during a search for something different) what appeared to be TERRABYTES of this alarmist babble out there. And some very non-babbly, professional-seeming items as well. Have fun. At 09:53 AM 1/18/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hi All: > >Perhaps someone can help me with this. I received this from a friend and if >it is true, this is of great concern. As a note, I'd heard something >similar about this in November 1997 from a health food aficionado. > >If it is not true, it brings up another concern...the ability of the >internet to spread misinformation. Please let me know what you think! > >Thanks! > >Helen > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jennifer Barr >Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 2:36 PM >To: Kirsten Stahl; Melva Meyer; Loretta Lewis >Subject: FW: Aspartame > > > DEAR FRIENDS - READ THIS AND THEN PLEASE PASS IT ON TO OTHERS - VERY >IMPORTANT HEALTH RELATED NEWS ..... >Again, please help us too. There are a lot of people out there who >must >be warned, *please* let them know this information._ > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:31:39 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Helen B. Gerhard" Subject: ANOTHER SCARE TACTIC OR REALITY? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi All: This is another one that I'd planned on checking out. Any information on the truth (or misinformation) involved?Hi A> > Thanks! Helen > > > > Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 9:36 PM > > > > > > > > Got this from an e=mail, did you know this? > > > > Many tampon makers include asbestos in the > > > tampon. Why? Because asbestos makes you bleed > > > more...if you bleed more, you're going to need to > use > > > more. Why wasn't this against the law since > asbestos > > > is so dangerous? Because the powers that be, > in > > > all their wisdom (not), did not consider > tampons > > > as being ingested, and therefore wasn't > illegal > > > or considered dangerous. This month's Essence magazine has a small > > > article about this and they mention two > manufacturers > > > of a cotton tampon alternative. The companies > are Organic Essentials @ (800) 765-6491 and the Black-owned terra femme @ (800) 755-0212. A woman getting her Ph.D. at University of > Colorado @ Boulder sent this: Read on if you value your health... I am writing this because women are not > being informed about the dangers of something > most of us use - tampons. I'm taking a class this month and I have been learning a lot about biology and the woman, including > much about feminine hygiene. Recently we have learned that tampons are actually > dangerous (for other reasons than TSS). Read on if you're interested, if not, that's fine > too. But I'll tell you this after learning > about this in our class, most of the females > wound up feeling angry and upset with the tampon> industry, and I for one, am going to do something about it. To start, I want to inform everyone I can, and email is the fastest way that I know how. HERE'S THE SCOOP: Tampons contain two things that are potentially harmful: Rayon (for absorbency) and dioxin (a > chemical used in bleaching the products). The > tampon industry s convinced that we, as women, > need bleached white products - they seem to > think that we view the product as pure and > clean. The problem here is that the dioxin > produced in this bleaching process can lead to very> harmful problems for a woman. Dioxin is potentially carcinogenic > (cancer- associated) and is toxic to the immune and> reproductive systems. It has been linked to endometriosis as well as lower sperm counts for men - for both, it breaks down> the immune system. Last September the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) reported that there really is no set "acceptable" level of exposure to dioxin - given that it is cumulative and slow to disintegrate, the real danger comes from repeated contact (Karen Houppert "Pulling the Plug on the Tampon Industry"). I'd > say using about 5 tampons a day, five days a month, for 38 menstruating years is "repeated contact", wouldn't you? Rayon contributes to the danger of tampons> and dioxin because it is a highly > absorbent substance and therefore when fibers from the tampons are left behind in the vagina (as usually occurs), it creates a breeding ground for the dioxin, and stays in a lot longer than it would with just cotton > tampons. > > > This is also the reason why TSS (toxic > shock syndrome) occurs. WHAT ARE THE ALTERNATIVES? Using feminine hygiene products that aren't bleached > (which causes the dioxin) and that are all cotton> (the rayon will leave fibers and "breeding> grounds" in the vagina). Other feminine hygiene products (pads/napkins) contain > dioxin as well, but they are not nearly as > dangerous since they are not in direct contact with > the vagina. The pads/napkins need to stop > being bleached, but obviously tampons are the most dangerous. So, what can you do if you can't give up > using> > > tampons? Use tampons that are made from > 100% cotton, and that are unbleached. > > > Unfortunately, there are very, very few companies that > make these safe tampons. They are usually only found in health food stores. Countries > all over the world (Sweden, Germany, British Columbia, etc.) have demanded a switch to > this> > > safer tampon, while the U.S. has decided > to keep us in the dark about it. In 1989, activists in England mounted a campaign > > > against chlorine bleaching. Six weeks and 50,000 > > > letters later, the makers of sanitary products > > > switched to oxygen bleaching (one of the green > methods available) (Ms. magazine, May/June 1995). Personally I think it's time that the U.S.> switches, and we need to make our voices > > > heard. WHAT TO DO NOW: Tell people. Everyone. Inform them. We are being manipulated by this industry and the government, let's do> ssomething about it! Tell everyone to write> to the companies - Tampax (Tambrands), Playtex, O.B., Kotex. Call the 1-800 > numbers on the boxes. LET THEM KNOW THAT WE > DEMAND A SAFE PRODUCT - ALL-COTTON, UNBLEACHED > TAMPONS. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:49:10 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Dr. Linda A. Swihart" Subject: Re: ANOTHER SCARE TACTIC... I think this is easier In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This sounds way more like total hooey than the aspartame danger business, but who knows. Whatever you do DON'T search for +tampon +asbestos OK, do it if you want to, but it's a depressing result. (First five or so are for apparent sex sites with captions I will NOT include here!) The Wooden Spoon is a fairly charming "urban myth" site that has been around for a while. They have a tampons/asbestos page: http://snopes.simplenet.com/spoons/faxlore/tampon.htm At 10:31 AM 1/18/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hi All: > >This is another one that I'd planned on checking out. Any information on >the truth (or misinformation) involved?Hi A> > > >Thanks! > >Helen > >> > > > Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 9:36 PM > > > > > >> > > > Got this from an e=mail, did you know this? > > > > > >Many tampon makers include asbestos in the > > > tampon. Why? Because >asbestos makes you bleed >> > > more...if you bleed more, you're going to need to > use > > > >more. > >Why wasn't this against the law since > asbestos > > > is so >dangerous? Because the powers that be, >> in > > > all their wisdom (not), did not consider > tampons > > > >as being ingested, and therefore wasn't >> illegal > > > or considered dangerous. > >This month's Essence magazine has a small > > > article about this and >they mention two > manufacturers >> > > of a cotton tampon alternative. The companies > are Organic >Essentials @ (800) 765-6491 and >the Black-owned terra femme @ (800) 755-0212. > >A woman getting her Ph.D. at University of > Colorado @ Boulder sent this: > >Read on if you value your health... I am writing this because women are not >> being informed about the >dangers of something > most of us use - tampons. I'm taking a class this >month and I have been learning >a lot about biology and the woman, including > much about feminine hygiene. >Recently we have learned >that tampons are actually > dangerous (for other reasons than TSS). Read on >if you're interested, if not, >that's fine > too. But I'll tell you this after learning > about this in >our class, most of the females > wound up >feeling angry and upset with the tampon> industry, and I for one, am going >to do something about it. >To start, I want to inform everyone I can, and email is the fastest way that >I know how. > >HERE'S THE SCOOP: Tampons contain two things that are potentially harmful: > >Rayon (for absorbency) and dioxin (a > chemical used in bleaching the >products). The > tampon industry >s convinced that we, as women, > need bleached white products - they seem >to > think that we view the >product as pure and > clean. The problem here is that the dioxin > produced >in this bleaching process can >lead to very> harmful problems for a woman. Dioxin is potentially >carcinogenic > (cancer- associated) and >is toxic to the immune and> reproductive systems. It has been linked to >endometriosis as well as lower >sperm counts for men - for both, it breaks down> the immune system. Last >September the Environmental >Protection Agency (EPA) reported that there really is no set "acceptable" >level of exposure to dioxin - given >that it is cumulative and slow to disintegrate, the real danger comes from >repeated contact (Karen Houppert >"Pulling the Plug on the Tampon Industry"). I'd > say using about 5 >tampons a day, five days a month, for >38 menstruating years is "repeated contact", wouldn't you? > >Rayon contributes to the danger of tampons> and dioxin because it is a >highly > absorbent substance and >therefore when fibers from the tampons are left behind in the vagina (as >usually occurs), it creates a breeding >ground for the dioxin, and stays in a lot longer than it would with just >cotton > tampons. > > > This is also the reason >why TSS (toxic > shock syndrome) occurs. > >WHAT ARE THE ALTERNATIVES? Using feminine hygiene products that aren't >bleached > (which causes the >dioxin) and that are all cotton> (the rayon will leave fibers and >"breeding> grounds" in the vagina). Other feminine >hygiene products (pads/napkins) contain > dioxin as well, but they are not >nearly as > dangerous since they are >not in direct contact with > the vagina. The pads/napkins need to stop > >being bleached, but obviously tampons are the >most dangerous. > >So, what can you do if you can't give up > using> > > tampons? Use >tampons that are made from > 100% cotton, and >that are unbleached. > > > Unfortunately, there are very, very few >companies that > make these safe tampons. They are >usually only found in health food stores. Countries > all over the world >(Sweden, Germany, British Columbia, etc.) have >demanded a switch to > this> > > safer tampon, while the U.S. has >decided > to keep us in the dark about it. In 1989, >activists in England mounted a campaign > > > against chlorine >bleaching. Six weeks and 50,000 > > > letters later, the makers >of sanitary products > > > switched to oxygen bleaching (one of the green >> methods available) (Ms. magazine, May/June 1995). > >Personally I think it's time that the U.S.> switches, and we need to make >our voices > > > heard. > >WHAT TO DO NOW: Tell people. Everyone. Inform them. We are being manipulated >by this industry and the government, >let's do> ssomething about it! Tell everyone to write> to the companies - >Tampax (Tambrands), Playtex, O.B., Kotex. Call the 1-800 >> numbers on the boxes. LET THEM KNOW THAT WE > DEMAND A SAFE PRODUCT - >ALL-COTTON, UNBLEACHED >> TAMPONS. > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:51:34 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: ANOTHER SCARE TACTIC OR REALITY? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit check out this site: http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/ I think we all should get our medical advice from our doctors, not the internet. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Helen B. Gerhard To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 12:35 Subject: ANOTHER SCARE TACTIC OR REALITY? >Hi All: > >This is another one that I'd planned on checking out. Any information on >the truth (or misinformation) involved?Hi A> > > >Thanks! > >Helen > >> > > > Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 9:36 PM > > > > > >> > > > Got this from an e=mail, did you know this? > > > > > >Many tampon makers include asbestos in the > > > tampon. Why? Because >asbestos makes you bleed >> > > more...if you bleed more, you're going to need to > use > > > >more. > >Why wasn't this against the law since > asbestos > > > is so >dangerous? Because the powers that be, >> in > > > all their wisdom (not), did not consider > tampons > > > >as being ingested, and therefore wasn't >> illegal > > > or considered dangerous. > >This month's Essence magazine has a small > > > article about this and >they mention two > manufacturers >> > > of a cotton tampon alternative. The companies > are Organic >Essentials @ (800) 765-6491 and >the Black-owned terra femme @ (800) 755-0212. > >A woman getting her Ph.D. at University of > Colorado @ Boulder sent this: > >Read on if you value your health... I am writing this because women are not >> being informed about the >dangers of something > most of us use - tampons. I'm taking a class this >month and I have been learning >a lot about biology and the woman, including > much about feminine hygiene. >Recently we have learned >that tampons are actually > dangerous (for other reasons than TSS). Read on >if you're interested, if not, >that's fine > too. But I'll tell you this after learning > about this in >our class, most of the females > wound up >feeling angry and upset with the tampon> industry, and I for one, am going >to do something about it. >To start, I want to inform everyone I can, and email is the fastest way that >I know how. > >HERE'S THE SCOOP: Tampons contain two things that are potentially harmful: > >Rayon (for absorbency) and dioxin (a > chemical used in bleaching the >products). The > tampon industry >s convinced that we, as women, > need bleached white products - they seem >to > think that we view the >product as pure and > clean. The problem here is that the dioxin > produced >in this bleaching process can >lead to very> harmful problems for a woman. Dioxin is potentially >carcinogenic > (cancer- associated) and >is toxic to the immune and> reproductive systems. It has been linked to >endometriosis as well as lower >sperm counts for men - for both, it breaks down> the immune system. Last >September the Environmental >Protection Agency (EPA) reported that there really is no set "acceptable" >level of exposure to dioxin - given >that it is cumulative and slow to disintegrate, the real danger comes from >repeated contact (Karen Houppert >"Pulling the Plug on the Tampon Industry"). I'd > say using about 5 >tampons a day, five days a month, for >38 menstruating years is "repeated contact", wouldn't you? > >Rayon contributes to the danger of tampons> and dioxin because it is a >highly > absorbent substance and >therefore when fibers from the tampons are left behind in the vagina (as >usually occurs), it creates a breeding >ground for the dioxin, and stays in a lot longer than it would with just >cotton > tampons. > > > This is also the reason >why TSS (toxic > shock syndrome) occurs. > >WHAT ARE THE ALTERNATIVES? Using feminine hygiene products that aren't >bleached > (which causes the >dioxin) and that are all cotton> (the rayon will leave fibers and >"breeding> grounds" in the vagina). Other feminine >hygiene products (pads/napkins) contain > dioxin as well, but they are not >nearly as > dangerous since they are >not in direct contact with > the vagina. The pads/napkins need to stop > >being bleached, but obviously tampons are the >most dangerous. > >So, what can you do if you can't give up > using> > > tampons? Use >tampons that are made from > 100% cotton, and >that are unbleached. > > > Unfortunately, there are very, very few >companies that > make these safe tampons. They are >usually only found in health food stores. Countries > all over the world >(Sweden, Germany, British Columbia, etc.) have >demanded a switch to > this> > > safer tampon, while the U.S. has >decided > to keep us in the dark about it. In 1989, >activists in England mounted a campaign > > > against chlorine >bleaching. Six weeks and 50,000 > > > letters later, the makers >of sanitary products > > > switched to oxygen bleaching (one of the green >> methods available) (Ms. magazine, May/June 1995). > >Personally I think it's time that the U.S.> switches, and we need to make >our voices > > > heard. > >WHAT TO DO NOW: Tell people. Everyone. Inform them. We are being manipulated >by this industry and the government, >let's do> ssomething about it! Tell everyone to write> to the companies - >Tampax (Tambrands), Playtex, O.B., Kotex. Call the 1-800 >> numbers on the boxes. LET THEM KNOW THAT WE > DEMAND A SAFE PRODUCT - >ALL-COTTON, UNBLEACHED >> TAMPONS. > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:59:58 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Helen B. Gerhard" Subject: Doctor's Information MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Bob: I totally agree that people should not believe everything they read. However, it is true that doctors do not necessary know the latest in research. Once they leave school, they are busy with patients and CAN'T spend their entire spare time reading. Additionally, the medical community is very slow to accept new information...Look at the recent ulcer information. Up to a few years ago doctors would swear up and down that a bacteria was not causing ulcers. However, after the researcher induced ulcers by drinking the bacteria and then curing them with antibiotics, most doctors have agreed that many ulcers are caused this way. While this research technique does leave a great deal to be desired, it did cut down the time for the medical community to accept this new treatment. As such, when I hear something like the two stories I passed on today, I like to check it out. As Dr. Swihart indicated, the aspartame issue may at least be partially true while the tampon issue is probably a full blown urban legend. However, I figure you guys will set me straight on which ones may be worthy of further investigation. Thanks! Helen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:27:32 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Dr. Linda A. Swihart" Subject: Re: Doctor's Information In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I totally agree that people should not believe everything they read. >However, it is true that doctors do not necessary know the latest in >research. [...... ] Additionally, the medical community >is very slow to accept new information...Look at the recent ulcer >information. Up to a few years ago doctors would swear up and down that a >bacteria was not causing ulcers. However, after the researcher induced >ulcers by drinking the bacteria and then curing them with antibiotics, most >doctors have agreed that many ulcers are caused this way. While this >research technique does leave a great deal to be desired, it did cut down >the time for the medical community to accept this new treatment. Excellent example Helen, point well made. Doctors know a lot, and maybe it's a gajillionth of a percent of everything-there-is-to-know. Apologies, but here's a relevant joke I've truly enjoyed telling my relatives and friends who are MDs: They were lined up like crazy outside the Pearly Gates that afternoon... and the patient gentleman fifth from the front had been waiting since early morning. A portly older fellow in a white coat, stethoscope dangling from his neck and a clipboard in his hand, pushed through the throng saying "excuse me... beg pardon... 'scuse please...." He made it to the front of the line, interrupted the conversation Peter was having with the lady there, and was waved through after a short whispered discussion and a nod. The fifth-in-line man was really a bit perturbed, and when he finally arrived at the Gates he couldn't help but comment. "I don't mean to be rude," he said, "but a lot of us have been waiting for hours and hours. It just doesn't seem fair (in heaven of all places!) the way you let that doctor barge into the front of the line and go right into Heaven." St. Peter looked puzzled. Then he understood, and laughed. "Oh! It's not what you think. That was God. He just sometimes likes to play doctor." DrLinda (who has never posed nude except for life drawing classes at Cooper Union :-) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:34:06 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mark Smith Subject: Information on lighting In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990118124910.007e8240@postoffice.purdue.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Could anyone suggest a good reference for proper lighting (fixtrues, bulbs, etc,) to use in a bulk solvent storage area. This could be a regulatory reference or just a "prudent practice" reference. Thanks, ms *************************************** MARK SMITH HENDRIX COLLEGE CHEMISTRY LABORATORY COORDINATOR CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER NRCC-CHO *************************************** 1600 Washington Ave Conway, AR 72032 501-450-3812 Fax : 501-450-3829 *************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:53:07 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: ANOTHER SCARE TACTIC OR REALITY? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'll cut out most of this rather long post; but I do want to comment on a few things. Asbestos undoubtedly would not be used because company lawyers would be scared silly over potential liability issues. As for using rayon with its greater absorbancy, "Hello" isn't that why we buy tampons, for greater absorbancy. Would be surprised that any large epidemiological studies, that were duplicated elsewhere, showed greater evidence of the listed diseases. A PhD candidate wrote that the fibers are a breeding ground for dioxin?? If she was accurately quoted I doubt she will earn her PhD, at least not in the sciences. Oxygen bleaching instead of Cl2 sounds fine to me. The strident, tell everyone you know, tone of the original post sounds like the original writer might be associated with one of the "organic" sanitary products producer. And it is hard to believe the one who re posted this is a chemist. At 10:31 AM 1/18/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hi All: > > > > Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 9:36 PM > > > > > >> > > > Got this from an e=mail, did you know this? > > > > > >Many tampon makers include asbestos in the > > > tampon. Why? Because >asbestos makes you bleed >> > > more...if you bleed more, you're going to need to > use > > > >more. >snip >A woman getting her Ph.D. at University of > Colorado @ Boulder sent this: > >Read on if you value your health... I am writing this because women are not >> being informed about the >dangers of something > most of us use - tampons. I'm taking a class this >month and I have been learning >a lot about biology and the woman, including > much about feminine hygiene. snip >HERE'S THE SCOOP: Tampons contain two things that are potentially harmful: > >Rayon (for absorbency) and dioxin (a > chemical used in bleaching the >products). snip Dioxin is potentially >carcinogenic > (cancer- associated) and >is toxic to the immune and> reproductive systems. It has been linked to >endometriosis as well as lower >sperm counts for men - for both, it breaks down> the immune system. Last >September the Environmental >Protection Agency (EPA) reported that there really is no set "acceptable" >level of exposure to dioxin - given >that it is cumulative and slow to disintegrate, > >Rayon contributes to the danger of tampons> and dioxin because it is a >highly > absorbent substance and >therefore when fibers from the tampons are left behind in the vagina (as >usually occurs), it creates a breeding >ground for the dioxin, and stays in a lot longer snip > > >Personally I think it's time that the U.S.> switches, and we need to make >our voices > > > heard. > >WHAT TO DO NOW: Tell people. Everyone. Inform them. We are being manipulated >by this industry and the government, >let's do> ssomething about it! Tell everyone to write> to the companies - >Tampax (Tambrands), Playtex, O.B., Kotex. Call the 1-800 >> numbers on the boxes. LET THEM KNOW THAT WE > DEMAND A SAFE PRODUCT - >ALL-COTTON, UNBLEACHED >> TAMPONS. > > > > Be careful what you believe Mary Ann Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority Past Chair, DivCHAS, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:56:42 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: ANOTHER SCARE TACTIC OR REALITY? In-Reply-To: <008a01be430b$30ab8180$0100007f@BBURNS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:51 PM 1/18/99 -0500, you wrote: >check out this site: http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/ > >I think we all should get our medical advice from our doctors, not the >internet. Or sites such as those hosted by NIH, CDC, or major universities with public health departments. Mary Ann > >Bob >-----Original Message----- >From: Helen B. Gerhard >To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu >Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 12:35 >Subject: ANOTHER SCARE TACTIC OR REALITY? > >major snip ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:59:20 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Helen B. Gerhard" Subject: Re: ANOTHER SCARE TACTIC OR REALITY? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The best part of posting this on the labsafety list is that I've now got "urban legends" (UL) websites to direct the perpetuators to. From now on, when such info comes my way, I'll search there first and reply back to the UL perpetuators rather than bore you guys with the info...unless I find that they are factual. Thanks! Helen -----Original Message----- From: Mary Ann Solstad [SMTP:msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET] Sent: Monday, January 18, 1999 11:53 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: ANOTHER SCARE TACTIC OR REALITY? I'll cut out most of this rather long post; but I do want to comment on a few things. Asbestos undoubtedly would not be used because company lawyers would be scared silly over potential liability issues. As for using rayon with its greater absorbancy, "Hello" isn't that why we buy tampons, for greater absorbancy. Would be surprised that any large epidemiological studies, that were duplicated elsewhere, showed greater evidence of the listed diseases. A PhD candidate wrote that the fibers are a breeding ground for dioxin?? If she was accurately quoted I doubt she will earn her PhD, at least not in the sciences. Oxygen bleaching instead of Cl2 sounds fine to me. The strident, tell everyone you know, tone of the original post sounds like the original writer might be associated with one of the "organic" sanitary products producer. And it is hard to believe the one who re posted this is a chemist. Be careful what you believe Mary Ann Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority Past Chair, DivCHAS, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:10:20 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jennifer Reader Organization: Environmental Health and Safety Subject: Re: Information on lighting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The electrical code will have requirements about type of fixtures, etc for a high hazard area. Jennifer Reader, B.S., M.S.P.H. Hazardous Materials Safety Officer Environmental Health and Safety University of Guelph Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1 Canada 519-824-4120 X3190 Fax 519-824-0364 e-Mail jennifer@ehs.uoguelph.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:45:00 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "J. Scott Walker" Subject: Re: Information on lighting In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:34 AM 1/19/99 -0600, you wrote: >Could anyone suggest a good reference for proper lighting (fixtrues, bulbs, >etc,) to use in a bulk solvent storage area. > >This could be a regulatory reference or just a "prudent practice" reference. > >Thanks, > >ms > >*************************************** > MARK SMITH (snip) Mark: The National Electrical Code, NFPA 70, is your base source for information. It is included by reference in most building codes in most jurisidictions.NFPA 70C, Hazardous Location Classification, will help you define your particular installation. OSHA does a good job in handling this issue as well referencing the NFPA documents almost verbatim. If you're subject to OSHA,or a state derivative thereof, it will be your bible. 29 CFR 1910 Part H, specifically 1910.106Flammable and Combustible Liquids, and Subpart S, specifically 1910.307,Hazardous (Classified) Locations, will spell out the type of electrical gear needed. 1910.399 has the definitions for the Classification and Divisions that you will encounter in the standards. If you don't feel your local resources are as informed as they should be on this issue, contact your state fire marshall's office or your state OSHA office for assistance. J. Scott Walker Environmental Engineer LexaLite International Corporation Dickson, TN 37055 jscottw@licdxn.com 615.441.6274 Phone 615.446.3007 Fax ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:47:54 EST Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Low-Calorie Sweetners Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi NACHO members, The American Council on Science and Health has an interesting report on "Low- Calorie Sweetners. The last edition I have was 1986. Maybe they have updated it. Their phone number is/was 212-362-7044 ... jim ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at http://www.labsafety.org/ ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:41:16 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Dr. Linda A. Swihart" Subject: American Council on Science and Health Re: Low-Calorie Sweetners In-Reply-To: <81d1bcb4.36a3e44a@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:47 PM 1/18/99 EST, you wrote: >Hi NACHO members, > >The American Council on Science and Health has an interesting report on "Low- >Calorie Sweetners. The last edition I have was 1986. Maybe they have updated >it. >Their phone number is/was 212-362-7044 ... jim Aw c'mon, a web site is easier than trying to phone someone! The web site for ACSH is http://www.acsh.org/eg.acgi and a search of their site for aspartame gives two hits 1 - "Low Calorie Sweeteners" http://www.acsh.org/publications/booklets/lowcal.html is a short summary. Updated since 1986. The full text download is in Acrobat format. (Can't tell if it's v2 or v3) 2 - "Media Scams" http://www.acsh.org/publications/priorities/0804/mediascams.html It's not too much about aspartame but more about media "enhancement" of alarmist claims. -- Linda "The sooner you fall behind, the longer you have to catch up." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:25:00 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Tayman, Tammy" Subject: Re: ASPARTAME DANGER? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Actually, just after I left NIH, around the time that nutrasweet was released for public consumption, a collegue of mine was FURIOUS over the fact that FDA had gone ahead with the approval, even though his lab (he was a tech, not the head researcher) had discovered that aspartame does indeed break down in vivo, forming methanol and other byproducts. I believe that his boss tried to fight it, but obviously he lost. Tammy Tayman ---------- From: Bob Burns To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: ASPARTAME DANGER? Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 12:12PM IMHO this is another urban myth. First of all, there is no methanol in aspartame, which is a dipeptide of aspartic acid and phenyalanine, two amino acids. Secondly, I do believe our government, in the form of FDA, would be all over the case if there was any truth to it at all. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Helen B. Gerhard To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 11:57 Subject: ASPARTAME DANGER? >Hi All: > >Perhaps someone can help me with this. I received this from a friend and if >it is true, this is of great concern. As a note, I'd heard something >similar about this in November 1997 from a health food aficionado. > >If it is not true, it brings up another concern...the ability of the >internet to spread misinformation. Please let me know what you think! > >Thanks! > >Helen > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jennifer Barr >Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 2:36 PM >To: Kirsten Stahl; Melva Meyer; Loretta Lewis >Subject: FW: Aspartame > > > DEAR FRIENDS - READ THIS AND THEN PLEASE PASS IT ON TO OTHERS - VERY >IMPORTANT HEALTH RELATED NEWS >WORLD ENVIRONMENTAL CONFERENCE and the MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS FOUNDATION F.D.A. >ISSUING FOR COLLUSION WITH MONSANTO Article written by Nancy Markle >(1120197) >I have spent several days lecturing at the WORLD ENVIRONMENTAL CONFERENCE on >"ASPARTAME marketed as 'NutraSweet', 'Equal', and 'Spoonful"'. In the >keynote address by the EPA, they announced that there was an epidemic of >multiple sclerosis and systemic lupus, and they did not understand what >toxin was causing this to be rampant across the United States. I explain >that I was there to lecture on exactly that subject. When the temperature of >Aspartame exceeds 86 degrees F, the wood alcohol in ASPARTAME coverts to >formaldehyde and then to formic acid, which in turn causes metabolic >acidosis. Formic acid is the poison found in the sting of fire ants). The >methanol toxicity mimics multiple sclerosis; thus people were being >diagnosed with having multiple sclerosis in error. The multiple sclerosis is >not a death sentence, where methanol toxicity is. In the case of systemic >lupus, we are finding it has become almost as rampant as multiple sclerosis, >especially in Diet Coke and Diet Pepsi drinkers. Also, with methanol >toxicity, the victims usually drink three to four 12 oz. cans of them per >day, some even more. In the cases of systemic lupus, which is triggered by >ASPARTAME, the victim usually does not know that the aspartame is the >culprit. The victim continues its use aggravating the lupus to such a >degree, that sometimes it becomes life threatening. >When we get people off the aspartame, those with systemic lupus usually >become asymptomatic. Unfortunately, we can not reverse this disease. On >the other hand, in the case of those diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis, >(when in reality, the disease is methanol toxicity), most of the symptoms >disappear. We have seen cases where their vision has returned and even their >hearing has returned. This also applies to cases of tinnitus. During a >lecture I said "If you are using ASPARTAME (NutraSweet, Equal, Spoonful, >etc.) and you suffer from fibromyalgia symptoms, spasms, shooting pains, >numbness in your legs, cramps, vertigo, dizziness, headaches, tinnitus, >joint pain, depression, anxiety attacks, slurred speech, blurred vision, >memory loss - you probably have ASPARTAME DISEASE!" People were jumping up >during the lecture saying, "I've got this, is it reversible?" It is rampant. >Some of the speakers at my lecture were suffering from these symptoms. In >one leure attended by the Ambassador of Uganda, he told us that their sugar >industry is adding aspartame! He continued by saying that one of the >industry leader's son could no longer walk - due in part by product usage! >We have a very serious problem. Even a stranger came up to Dr. Espisto(oneof >my speakers) and myself and said, #1. Could you tell me why so many people >seem to be coming down with MS? #2. During a visit to a hospice, a nurse >said that six of her friends, who were heavy Diet Coke addicts, had all been >diagnosed with MS. >This is beyond coincidence. Here is the problem. There were Congressional >Hearings when aspartame was included in 100 different products. Since this >initial hearing, there have been two subsequent hearings, but to no avail. >Nothing as been done. The drug and chemical lobbies have very deep pockets. >Now there are over 5,000 products containing this chemical, and the PATENT >HAS EXPIRED!!!!! At the time of this first hearing, people were going blind. >The methanol in the aspartame converts to formaldehyde in the retina of the >eye. Formaldehyde is grouped in the same class of drugs as cyanide and >arsenic-DEADLY POISONS!!! Unfortunately, it just takes longer to quietly >kill, but it is killing people and causing all kinds of neurological >problems. Aspartame changes the brain's chemistry. It is the reason for >severe seizures. This drug changes the dopamine level in the brain. >Imagine what this drug does to patients suffering from Parkinson's Disease. >This drug also causes Birth Defects. >There is absolutely no reason to take this product. It is NOT A DIET >PRODUCT!!! The Congressional record said, "It makes you crave carbohydrates >and will make you FAT". Dr. Roberts stated that when he got patients off >aspartame, their average weight loss was 19 pounds per person. The >formaldehyde stores in the fat cells, particularly in the hips and thighs. >Aspartame is especially deadly for diabetics. All physicians know what wood >alcohol will do to a diabetic. We find that physicians believe that they >have patients with retinopathy, when in fact, it is caused by the aspartame. >The aspartame keeps the blood sugar level out of control, causing many >patients to go into a coma. Unfortunately, many have died. People were >telling us at the Conference of the American College of Physicians, that >they had relatives that switched from saccharin to an aspartame product and >how that relative eventually had gone into a coma. Their physicians could >not get the blood sugar levels under control. Thus, the patients suffered >acute memory loss and eventually coma and death. Memory loss is due to the >fact that aspartic acid and phenylalanine are neurotoxic without the other >amino acids found in protein. Thus it goes past the blood brain barrier and >deteriorates the neurons of the brain. Dr. Russell Blaylock, neurosurgeon, >said, "The ingredients stimulate the neurons of the brain to death, causing >brain damage of varying degrees. >Dr. Blaylock has written a book entitled "EXCITOTOXINS: THE TASTE THAT >KILLS" Health Press 1-800-643-2665). Dr. H.J. Roberts, diabetic specialist >and world expert on aspartame poisoning, has also written a book entitled >"DEFENSE AGAINST ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE" (1-800-814-9800). Dr. Roberts tells >how aspartame poisoning is escalating Alzheimer's Disease, and indeed it is. >As the hospice nurse told me, women are being admitted at 30 years of age >with Alzheimer's Disease. Dr. Blaylock and Dr. Roberts will be writing a >position paper with some case histories and will post it on the Internet. >According to the Conference of the American College of Physicians, 'We are >talking about a plague of neurological diseases caused by this deadly >poison." Dr. Roberts realized what was happening when aspartame was first >marketed. He said "his diabetic patients presented memory loss, confusion, >and severe vision loss". At the Conference of the American College of >Physicians, doctors admitted that they did not know. >They had wondered why seizures were rampant (thephenylalanine in aspartame >breaks down the seizure threshold and depletes serotonin, which causes manic >depression, panic attacks, rage and violence). Just before the Conference, I >received a FAX from Norway, asking for a possible antidote for this poison >because they are experiencing so many problems in their country. This >"poison" is now available in 90 PLUS countries worldwide. >Fortunately, we had speakers and ambassadors at the Conference from >different nations who have pledged their help. We ask that you help too. >Print this article out and warn everyone you know. Take anything that >contains aspartame black to the store. Take the "NO ASPARTAME TEST" and >send us your case history. I assure you that MONSANTO, the creator of >aspartame, knows how deadly it is. They fund the American Diabetes >Association, American Dietetic Association, Congress, and the Conference of >the American College of Physicians. The New York Times, on November 15, >1996, ran an article on how the American Dietetic Association takes money >from the food industry to endorse their products. Therefore, they can not >criticize any additives or tell about their link to MONSANTO. >How bad is this? We told a mother who had a child on NutraSweet to get off >the product. The child was having grand mal seizures every day. The mother >called her physician, who called the ADA, who told the doctor not to take >the child off the NutraSweet. We are still trying to convince the mother >that the aspartame is causing the seizures. Every time we get someone off of >aspartame, the seizures stop. If the baby dies, you know whose fault it is, >and what we are up against. There are 92 documented symptoms of aspartame, >from coma to death. The majority of them are all neurological, because the >aspartame destroys the nervous system. >Aspartame Disease is partially the cause to what is behind some of the >mystery of the Dessert Storm health problems. The burning tongue and other >problems discussed in over 60 cases can be directly related to the >consumption of an aspartame product. Several thousand pallets of diet drinks >were shipped to the Dessert Storm troops. (Remember heat can liberate the >methanol from the aspartame at 86 degrees F). Diet drinks sat in the 120 >degree F Arabian sun for weeks at a time on pallets. The service men and >women drank them all day long. All of their symptoms are identical to >aspartame poisoning. Dr. Roberts says "consuming aspartame at the time of >conception can cause birth defects". The phenylalanine concentrates in the >placenta, causing mental retardation, according to Dr. Louis Elsas, >Pediatrician Professor - Genetics, at Emory University in his testimony >before Congress. In the original lab tests, animals developed brain tumors >(phenylalanine breaks down into DXP, a brain tumor agent). When Dr. Espisto >was lecturing on aspartame, one physician in the audience, a neurosurgeon, >said, "when they remove brain tumors, they have found high levels of >aspartame in them". >Stevia, a sweet food, NOT AN ADDITIVE, which helps in the metabolism of >sugar, which would be ideal for diabetics, has now been approved as a >dietary supplement by the F.D.A. For years, the F.D.A. has outlawed this >sweet food because of their loyalty to MONSANTO. If it says "SUGAR FREE" on >the label-DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!l! >Senator Howard Hetzenbaum wrote a bill that would have warned all infants, >pregnant mothers and children of the dangers of aspartame. The bill would >have also instituted independent studies on the problems existing in the >population (seizures, changes in brain chemistry, changes in neurological >and behavioral symptoms). It was killed by the powerful drug and chemical >lobbies, letting loose the hounds of disease and death on an unsuspecting >public. Since the Conference of the American College of Physicians, we hope >to have the help of some world leaders. >Again, please help us too. There are a lot of people out there who >must >be warned, *please* let them know this information._ > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:30:05 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Julie O'Brien Subject: Re: ASPARTAME DANGER? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Actually, just after I left NIH, around the time that nutrasweet was >released for public consumption, a collegue of mine was FURIOUS over the >fact that FDA had gone ahead with the approval, even though his lab (he was >a tech, not the head researcher) had discovered that aspartame does indeed >break down in vivo, forming methanol and other byproducts. I believe that >his boss tried to fight it, but obviously he lost. When visiting a very large soft drink manufacturer a few years ago, we were very curious about their long term stability studies of their products. They would pull bottles off the shelf all over the country then send them back to their analytical headquarters. The soft drinks were then tested using many different analytical techniques. Particularly interesting was the GC/MS results. Turns out that with "aging" the Nutrasweet was degrading to form the same chemical that gives shoe polish its odor. Their solution to the problem: Have "Freshness Dates" on the containers. Julie O'Brien Chemist PCR, Inc. PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 ext. 232 Fax 352-373-7503 afn35210@afn.org Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville PO Box 5951 Gainesville, FL 32627 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:35:09 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Nick Spare Subject: Re: ASPARTAME DANGER? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A check with the Merck index shows the structure of Aspartame to be based on the methyl ester of phenylalanine. It, therefore stands to reason that methanol certainly could be an in vivo breakdown product. Merck has a reference to metabolism studies: Oppermann et al, J. Nutr. 103, 1454, 1460 (1973). I do not have easy access to this journal - what does it say? Nick Spare -----Original Message----- From: Tayman, Tammy To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 8:07 AM Subject: Re: ASPARTAME DANGER? >Actually, just after I left NIH, around the time that nutrasweet was >released for public consumption, a collegue of mine was FURIOUS over the >fact that FDA had gone ahead with the approval, even though his lab (he was >a tech, not the head researcher) had discovered that aspartame does indeed >break down in vivo, forming methanol and other byproducts. I believe that >his boss tried to fight it, but obviously he lost. > >Tammy Tayman > ---------- >From: Bob Burns >To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >Subject: Re: ASPARTAME DANGER? >Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 12:12PM > >IMHO this is another urban myth. > >First of all, there is no methanol in aspartame, which is a dipeptide of >aspartic acid and phenyalanine, two amino acids. > >Secondly, I do believe our government, in the form of FDA, would be all over >the case if there was any truth to it at all. > >Bob > > -----Original Message----- >From: Helen B. Gerhard >To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu >Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 11:57 >Subject: ASPARTAME DANGER? > > >>Hi All: >> >>Perhaps someone can help me with this. I received this from a friend and >if >>it is true, this is of great concern. As a note, I'd heard something >>similar about this in November 1997 from a health food aficionado. >> >>If it is not true, it brings up another concern...the ability of the >>internet to spread misinformation. Please let me know what you think! >> >>Thanks! >> >>Helen >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Jennifer Barr >>Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 2:36 PM >>To: Kirsten Stahl; Melva Meyer; Loretta Lewis >>Subject: FW: Aspartame >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:38:12 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Gary Mansfield Subject: Member Introduction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am one of those members who has not introduced myself before and has not entered into the discussions because I really do not feel qualified to be here. I am a CHO because I was told that was being added to my job. I have gone ot as many safety courses as the opportunity was given and I really appreciate getting to read all the e-mail questions and responses. Many of them have been very helpful and reinforce my understanding. Thanks for letting people like myself be a part of your organization. I am a NAOSMM member and joined the Labsafety group after attending a safety seminar that Jim taught at one of our national meeting. I work at The University of Tennessee at Martin. Our campus' football team is not the National Champ; however, we are part of a five campus state system so we do claim a share - U.T. "Nat. Champs". Our campus is about 6,000 strong and my department, Chemistry, has about 650 to 700 chemistry students a semister. Like many others that work at smaller schools I wear many different hats. I am lab and business manager, supervisor of student employees, computer repair person, purchasing director and CHO for our department. UTM*UT*UTM*UT*UTM* GO SKYHAWKS**GO BIG ORANGE*UT*UTM*UT*UTM*UT*UTM Member National Association Of Scientific Materials Managers -[ NAOSMM ] - ask me for details http://www.denison.edu/naosmm/ ***** The Grandfather of Ashley, Alexie, and Falon Mansfield. ***** Success in the end eclipses the mistakes along the way. Love in Christ Jesus, my Saviour. Gary ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:45:42 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Norman, Randy" Subject: Re: Being "Qualified" (was Member Introduction) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Gary wrote: "I am one of those members who has not introduced myself before and has not entered into the discussions because I really do not feel qualified to be here. I am a CHO because I was told that was being added to my job department." You have an interest in lab safety. That's all the qualification you need! It's especially for those new to the profession and trying to juggle collateral duties that this group exists! Randy Norman Safety Specialist Sr. BioReliance Corporation Rockville, MD 20850 Rnorman@bioreliance.com "Success is a journey, not a destination" - Ben Sweetland ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:16:00 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ray Campbell Subject: Re: Member Introduction In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990119103812.006a3550@mailer.utm.EdU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings, Gary. Welcome aboard. I wonder how many people have been forced to make the same claim to fame ie. they were told that "being a CHO was being added to their duties" Doesn't anyone read the regulations to determine the requirements for being named a CHO? Don't they understand what is at stake? Ray Campbell REA CCHO 310-257-1080 PS Excuse my ranting this morning. I have to go to the California DMV for a license renewal tomorrow. At 10:38 AM 1/19/99 -0600, you wrote: >I am one of those members who has not introduced myself before and has not >entered into the discussions because I really do not feel qualified to be >here. I am a CHO because I was told that was being added to my job. I >have gone ot as many safety courses as the opportunity was given and I >really appreciate getting to read all the e-mail questions and responses. >Many of them have been very helpful and reinforce my understanding. >Thanks for letting people like myself be a part of your organization. I >am a NAOSMM member and joined the Labsafety group after attending a safety >seminar that Jim taught at one of our national meeting. I work at The >University of Tennessee at Martin. Our campus' football team is not the >National Champ; however, we are part of a five campus state system so we >do claim a share - U.T. "Nat. Champs". Our campus is about 6,000 strong >and my department, Chemistry, has about 650 to 700 chemistry students a >semister. Like many others that work at smaller schools I wear many >different hats. I am lab and business manager, supervisor of student >employees, computer repair person, purchasing director and CHO for our >department. > > > >UTM*UT*UTM*UT*UTM* GO SKYHAWKS**GO BIG ORANGE*UT*UTM*UT*UTM*UT*UTM > >Member National Association Of Scientific Materials Managers -[ NAOSMM ] - >ask me for details > >http://www.denison.edu/naosmm/ > > ***** The Grandfather of Ashley, Alexie, and Falon Mansfield. ***** > > Success in the end eclipses the mistakes along the way. > Love in Christ Jesus, my Saviour. > Gary ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:15:28 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Helen B. Gerhard" Subject: Re: Being "Qualified" (was Member Introduction) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Randy: Sometimes the questions or addition to discussions should come from those just learning. It has been the case throughout history that sometime the most obvious is missed by those who were "qualified." Although somewhat different than Lab Safety, this story illustrates that. Orville & Wilbur Wright had gone to the leading engineering experts to have an engine built to their specifications. All the learned engineers said an engine could NOT be built to have the horsepower and lightness required. Orville and Wilbur went home to Ohio and asked the guy who helped fix the bicycles (who do not have any formal training in engineering...he was just a "putterer.") That was the man who built the first aluminum block engine...which fit Orville & Wilbur's specs and aviation history was made. Hope to hear from you in the discussions. Thanks! Helen -----Original Message----- From: Norman, Randy [SMTP:RNorman@BIORELIANCE.COM] Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 9:46 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Being "Qualified" (was Member Introduction) Gary wrote: "I am one of those members who has not introduced myself before and has not entered into the discussions because I really do not feel qualified to be here. I am a CHO because I was told that was being added to my job department." You have an interest in lab safety. That's all the qualification you need! It's especially for those new to the profession and trying to juggle collateral duties that this group exists! Randy Norman Safety Specialist Sr. BioReliance Corporation Rockville, MD 20850 Rnorman@bioreliance.com "Success is a journey, not a destination" - Ben Sweetland ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:13:15 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Rajan, John B." Subject: Member Introduction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am a new member of CHO. As a safety professional, you need to keep aware of changes and new approaches which may help you to perform the job more effectively. I believe that CHO may provide opportunities for growth. John ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:25:49 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Dr. Linda A. Swihart" Subject: Re: Being "Qualified" (was Member Introduction) In-Reply-To: <7E0AD3486F4AD21197670060081CEBCA40CF8C@BIO_NT_1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Gary wrote: > "I am one of those members who has not introduced myself before and >has not entered into the discussions because I really do not feel qualified >to be here. I am a CHO because I was told that was being added to my job Randy wrote > You have an interest in lab safety. That's all the qualification you >need! It's especially for those new to the profession and trying to juggle >collateral duties that this group exists! which is ever so many of us! If ever you wanted to find the largest group of intelligent professionals in which more than 50% suffer from near-debilitating "imposter syndrome," this could well be it! The subject is difficult, people are thrust into positions of grave responsibility -- added onto their regular duties -- with little or no training, and to make matters worse, THE RULES KEEP CHANGING. Regulatory compliance is such a moving target. -- Linda "The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:32:36 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Teresa Robertson Organization: CSU Bakersfield Subject: job opportunity in California Comments: cc: trobertson@csubak.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Environmental Health Specialist I $2,323 - $2,825 Positions available with Environmental Health Division in Visalia. Perform inspections of facilities to ensure compliance with state and local laws governing environmental quality control. Requires a Bachelor's degree in environmental health, biological sciences, or related field and a letter from the State Department of Health Services stating the candidate meets minimum standards for admission to examination for registration as Environmental Health Specialist. Apply by January 29, 1999. Tulare County Personnel 2900 West Burrel Visalia, CA 93291-4583 (559) 733-6266 Equal Opportunity Employer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:31:54 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: James Kapin Subject: Networking opportunity (and free lunch) in So Cal Comments: cc: sue@riso.fullerton.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The California Campus Environmental Health and Safety Association (CCEHSA) would like to invite everyone involved in campus health and safety (lab safety or otherwise) to its February 1 meeting. Topics include a 1999 regulatory update and managing projects, safely and effectively. This is a good chance to meet and greet with your colleagues from large and small schools all over California and, best of all, IT'S FREE ! CCEHSA members represent schools of all sizes from all over California, private and public, dealing with many of problems discussed on this list. Don't miss this wonderful opportunity to meet your counterparts from other institutions in a relaxed, friendly atmosphere. Date: February 1, 1999 Time: 11:30 - 3:00 pm Location: Ontario Airport Marriott (Vineyard exit off I-10, south to Holt Blvd., turn left, Hotel on right) Space is limited (first come first served), so please RSVP (714-278-4864) by 5 pm January 20, 1999, specify lunch choice (chicken or vegetarian) and tell them you heard about it on this list. Direct questions to Sue at 714-278-2507 Jim Kapin UCSD Chemical Safety Officer Mail Code 0920 9500 Gilman Drive, La Jolla CA 92093 (619)534-2823 fax (619)534-7982 mailto:jkapin@ucsd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:16:31 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Nick Pinizzotto Subject: Re: Being "Qualified" (was Member Introduction) Comments: To: hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Helen, Excellent point! That's always been my philosophy when it came to job posting. I think too much emphasis is placed on degrees(not that there not important.) I'm a firm believer that many times a "field ripened" individual can lend much more to a company than a degreed student right out of college. Agreed? Nick Pinizzotto, HEM Environmental Health Officer Dept. Environmental Health & Safety Thomas Jefferson University nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu 215-503-5853 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:34:49 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: EH&S Compliance Subject: Requested Introduction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have just joined your list and am looking forward to learning more about lab safety from reading the discussions that I may pass on to my fellow workers in our labs. I may be a little of an oddball in this group- industry. I work for a company with different types of labs at five of our plants. I have been in the environmental, health and safety field for about eight years. Before that time I worked in two different university labs. I have seen recently some problems in storage of chemicals that has concerned me and started me looking for resources. Thanks extending your welcome, Rebecca Levins EH&S Compliance Specialist RSR Corporation Dallas, Texas RSRrdl@onramp.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:13:01 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Joe Chase Subject: Re: Member Introduction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I, too, am an observer to the NACHO Listserv. I serve on my company's Safety Committee as the Facilities Safety Officer. Our company is a biotech company that develops diagnostic kits for disease detection. We present employ 90 people, of which, 70 have lab or lab-related functions. I have a problem with the selection process that our executive staff is using to appoint a CHO. Our Administration believes that the CHO should be our most senior chemist and that his only responsibility be as an advisor to how to dispose of hazardous waste. They don't even see the administrative or regulatory side of the CHO's responsibility. Of course, the chemist they have in mind, wants only to do chemistry, he doesn't want to think of all the other responsibilities that go along with the CHO position. How have other Administrations out there selected their CHO? Especially, in a company with under 100 people. Please advise and thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:35:45 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Gillian Gardner Subject: Re: Member Introduction In-Reply-To: <062566FE.006F0EA3.00@twtsrv1.twt.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Well, I was selected at Lewis & Clark because I'm the lab coordinator for chemistry. Since I've always been the one to handle hazardous waste disposal and ensure that students follow safety rules, there wasn't any debate on the matter. However, like many of you, I felt thrust into the position as I've had little to no formal training and all my knowledge comes from on the job training. Gillian Gardner On Tue, 19 Jan 1999, Joe Chase wrote: > > How have other Administrations out there selected their CHO? Especially, > in a company with under 100 people. Please advise and thanks. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:38:06 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: Member Introduction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WE picked me since I had expressed an interest. I believe a CHO should be only an adviser- safety is a line responsibility. I am responsible for the safety of the people who report to me, and the other Group Leaders the same for their people. WE employ about 250, at 3 sites. This site has the R&D labs, about 15 people. Bob "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D Specialty Chemicals Division RUETGERS Organics Corporation 201 Struble Road State College, PA 16801 phone 814-231-9214 fax 814-238-1567 email rburns@bigfoot.com -----Original Message----- From: Joe Chase To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 15:24 Subject: Re: Member Introduction >I, too, am an observer to the NACHO Listserv. I serve on my company's >Safety Committee as the Facilities Safety Officer. Our company is a >biotech company that develops diagnostic kits for disease detection. We >present employ 90 people, of which, 70 have lab or lab-related functions. >I have a problem with the selection process that our executive staff is >using to appoint a CHO. Our Administration believes that the CHO should be >our most senior chemist and that his only responsibility be as an advisor >to how to dispose of hazardous waste. They don't even see the >administrative or regulatory side of the CHO's responsibility. Of course, >the chemist they have in mind, wants only to do chemistry, he doesn't want >to think of all the other responsibilities that go along with the CHO >position. > >How have other Administrations out there selected their CHO? Especially, >in a company with under 100 people. Please advise and thanks. > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:53:02 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Helen B. Gerhard" Subject: Re: Member Introduction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Most of you have known that I do get involved in the discussions. However, I don't think I ever formally introduced myself or said how I became a CHO. In my case, I was hired to assure that as we moved from a sales/corporate office to a R&D/manufacturing with QA Lab operation that the areas of Quality/Health/Safety were able to perform their functions. At this point I address Quality issues ( i.e. auditing, document creation & control, R&D product development liason, ISO 9000 etc.), Safety (permanent member of H&S Committee, chemical H&S issues, liason with HR & Operations for safety issues, lab safety to include manufacturing labs, & liason with fire department and other government agencies), and Environmental (chemical waste disposal, chemical purchasing reviews, etc.). I was always to be the CHO from hire and was sent to take Jim's classes at the Dallas Meeting last spring. I took my CHO certification test at the same meeting and received my certificate not long after that. My background is B.S. Chemistry (where I took courses in Environmental Chemistry), and MBA in Technology Management. I have always been interested in EH&S and Quality issues so my job is a wonderful place to work. Thanks! Helen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 03:03:42 -0600 Reply-To: jameel@sage.nrri.umn.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: John Ameel Subject: Source for plant pigments In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990119122549.0080e100@postoffice.purdue.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Greetings: This posting is not directly related to lab safety but since this is such a diverse group I was hoping that someone could help. I have been asked to locate a source of plant pigments such as fucoxanthin and chlorophyll-c for a project that would like small quantities for analytical standards. I have tried the easy sources such as Sigma-Aldrich without success. If you know of a source could you let me know. Or if you know of someone working in the area of plant pigments that may be able to help, could you pass on my request? Thanks. While I have occasionally made a comment to the list, I have never really introduced myself. I am the on-site safety officer for a university research facility that employs 200+ people and covers everything from basic research in environmental issues (eg. nutrient cycling in soils and water) to pilot plant facilities where resins used in oriented strand board are tested. I am a supervisor in an analytical chemistry lab where we perform water analysis. I have a masters degree in industrial safety and wear many hats (chemical safety officer, radiation safety officer, chair of safety committee, waste officer). In many cases I act as an interface between the University of Minnesota EH&S department and the research groups on-site. I greatly appreciate the wide expertise and information I find in NACHO. If you'll pardon me for a shameless plug for our facility, take a look at our website at http://www.nrri.umn.edu or for a look at an exceptional educational website on the insitu study of lake water, see http://wow.nrri.umn.edu. John John Ameel (jameel@sage.nrri.umn.edu) Phone: 218-720-4313 Natural Resources Research Institute Fax: 218-720-9412 5013 Miller Trunk Highway Duluth, MN 55811 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:16:15 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Guy Crawford Subject: Re: New Member Introductions In-Reply-To: <752a0992.369b422e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Fellow lab safety types, I'm another lurker, that usually replies to the individual and not the listserv. UTEP is about 14,000 students, with most chemical research directed towards materials or environmental. I'm the safety manager, with occasional duties on the environmental side of the house. My background is in chemistry (BS, MS), and am now within six months of a PhD in materials science and engineering. After the PhD, I'll probably never do materials science. As you all know, once a safety guy always a safety guy. Before coming back to school, I supervised/managed an analytical lab for an environmental consulting firm 11 years. For 6 years, I managed the EH&S department at the R&D facility of a major chemical manufacturer. We were an OSHA VPP site. I've been in academic safety business for 2 years, and find it better and worse than industry. Different priorities, different motives, but it's all the safety and health of employees, and students. Good lurk to all. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:54:06 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: Member Introduction In-Reply-To: <062566FE.006F0EA3.00@twtsrv1.twt.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:13 PM 1/19/99 -0600, you wrote: >I, too, am an observer to the NACHO Listserv. I serve on my company's >Safety Committee as the Facilities Safety Officer. Our company is a >biotech company that develops diagnostic kits for disease detection. We >present employ 90 people, of which, 70 have lab or lab-related functions. >I have a problem with the selection process that our executive staff is >using to appoint a CHO. Our Administration believes that the CHO should be >our most senior chemist and that his only responsibility be as an advisor >to how to dispose of hazardous waste. They don't even see the >administrative or regulatory side of the CHO's responsibility. Of course, >the chemist they have in mind, wants only to do chemistry, he doesn't want >to think of all the other responsibilities that go along with the CHO >position. > >How have other Administrations out there selected their CHO? Especially, >in a company with under 100 people. Please advise and thanks. > Suggestion: Forward to the Administration relevant portions of the Lab Standard--that should open their eyes. Add to that some related duties, such as HazMat, chemical purchasing, etc. Also might have Safety Com. propose suggestions within the co., if there are any qualified. As you can see here, many learn on the job. Mary Ann Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority Past Chair, DivCHAS, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:57:18 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: EH&S Compliance Subject: Re: Member Introduction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE43CD.0ADD8940" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE43CD.0ADD8940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Joe, According to OSHA's 229 CFR 1910.1450(b) a "Chemical Hygiene Officer = means an employee who is designated by the employer, and who is = qualified by training or experience, to provide technical guidance in = the development and implementation of the provisions of the Chemical = Hygiene Plan. This definition is not intended to place limitations on = the position description or job classification that the designated = individual shall hold within the employer's organizational structure." According to the same citation a "Chemical Hygiene Plan means a written = program developed and implemented by the employer which sets forth = procedures, equipment, personal protective equipment and work practices = that are capable of protecting employees from the health hazards = presented by hazardous chemicals used in that particular workplace and = (ii) meets the requirements of paragraph (e) of this section." I'm not a CHO at any of our labs. Our labs have from 3 to 15 people. = Company wide we are more than 100. I'm at the corporate office and am a = resource for them. I review their Chemical Hygiene Plans and help with = questions and occasionally audit the labs. We have someone at each lab = that is designated as such. Usually it is a senior person at the lab (in = order to have the necessary resources and knowledge); but not generally = the most senior. It is also someone who is familiar with the chemicals = in the lab and their hazards. Our CHOs are primarily concerned with = safety, not waste. They also are the ones to train the other lab workers = on the CHP. We have other individuals who concern themselves with the = proper disposal of hazardous waste (of which I do happen to be one). Hope this helps, Rebecca Levins EH&S Compliance Specialist RSR Corporation Dallas, Texas RSRrdl@onramp.net (214) 583-0245 -----Original Message----- From: Joe Chase [SMTP:Joe_Chase@TWT.COM] Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 2:13 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Member Introduction I, too, am an observer to the NACHO Listserv. I serve on my company's Safety Committee as the Facilities Safety Officer. Our company is a biotech company that develops diagnostic kits for disease detection. We present employ 90 people, of which, 70 have lab or lab-related = functions. I have a problem with the selection process that our executive staff is using to appoint a CHO. Our Administration believes that the CHO should = be our most senior chemist and that his only responsibility be as an = advisor to how to dispose of hazardous waste. They don't even see the administrative or regulatory side of the CHO's responsibility. Of = course, the chemist they have in mind, wants only to do chemistry, he doesn't = want to think of all the other responsibilities that go along with the CHO position. How have other Administrations out there selected their CHO? = Especially, in a company with under 100 people. Please advise and thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:06:29 -0800 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Ahler Subject: Concerning Liability and Malfeasance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Concerning" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear NACHO members, The question was asked: "How would your campus risk manager distinguish this act from negligence by reason of malfeasance?" (concerning the deliberate removal of a table saw guard). I recently solicited comments from a couple of administrative sources concerning this question, and I will summarize the responses here. This is actually a question that is best answered by an attorney, and our campus Risk Manager is correct to stipulate that he isn't one. The University might, in a case like this, have liability under the malfeasance argument. But if the employee was named separately in the claim (which is common), the campus might elect not to provide any defense to the employee (or pay any of his/her damages, etc). [end of response summary] When we start asking "what if" questions where legal liability can be a consequence, the answer may not be consistent from case to case. Such is the landscape in a litigious society. I agree with what I see to be the point of Jim's question. In an injury case where a saw guard is deliberately removed, it seems easy to identify who is at fault for the resulting injury. Less easy to predict is the outcome where (for example) the claim is made that the instructor failed to adequately inform the injured student(s) about the hazards of the material that caused an injury. I have a hypothetical scenario I will offer to illustrate how I think something like this would play out. This scenario focuses on how a lawsuit might affect the specific individuals involved rather than the effect on the institution. ( And I, too, am not an attorney ; this is hypothetical and the results are a guess.) Let's say Professor Furstman did offer some instruction in the hazards of the materials in use and how to use them safely and what to do in case of accident. It's just awfully hard to be everywhere and to see what everyone is doing, and this time, despite the Furstman's best efforts, he/she was in the wrong place at the wrong time and was unable to alter the events that resulted in the injury. Dr. Furstman did make a sincere effort ( an unsuccessful one) to avoid accident and injury in the lab. My guess is that the university would indeed defend professor Furstman in court ( if necessary) and would pay damages or the settlement. My guess also says that the Dean would want some kind of effective (additional) effort mounted to increase the safety awareness in this and other laboratories under his/her influence. Let's say Professor Toodle (different department, same university) takes the position that safety training is a futile effort because students generally don't listen to it anyway and will do whatever comes to mind in the lab despite all warnings they have been given. Further, there is quite a lot of REAL work that needs to be done in the lab, so why waste a lab period or even a minute with useless blather about dangers that haven't caused a problem in decades anyway. Professor Toodle is known for this position since he shares this philosophy freely at department meetings and other gatherings. (Dr. Toodle hasn't heard about the misfortunes of Professor Furstman - maybe.) So, one day Professor Toodle finds himself in a lawsuit strikingly similar to that of Professor Furstman. Will the university defend and pay settlements for Dr. Toodle? My guess is probably not. This guess is based on the assumption that the university has an existing IIPP and other easily accessible laboratory safety policies and guidelines (Chemical Hygiene Plan) that Professor Toodle or anyone else has access to. Since Dr. Toodle has a documentable disdain for safety training and information, and there is an identifiable requirement to provide training and information, the university may elect to distance itself from Dr. Toodle's legal problem. And in this case also, my guess says that the Dean would want some kind of effective (additional) effort mounted to increase the safety awareness in this and other laboratories under his/her influence. And, ( a bit of input from our Risk Manager) "in the end [in either case], the unnecessary injury will have occurred, and the University will spend a lot of money defending and settling or possibly paying some or all of the judgement that an individual was harmed by the institution....a difficult one to "win"." Even though an individual ( the Drs. Toodle, Furstman, or the table saw guard remover) may be individually named in a suit, no suing attorney is going to ignore the deep pockets he sees at the university. Whether or not the individual is defended by the university, the institution will still have a claim against it. That's where the money is. Let me know if all this sounds impossible. I actually was prepared to exercise my extensive chemical background when I took this job. You never know which way the roller coaster will go next. My word processor runneth over. Thanks for listening. Michael Ahler, CHO mahler@calpoly.edu Risk Management Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, California ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:54:11 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Eugene A Satrun Subject: Re: Concerning Liability and Malfeasance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In this example I would think the University would be stuck defending Prof Toodle's actions since it in effect condoned them. The question would be asked if this professors views were so well known to management, why was he still employed? A well known deliberate refusal to follow safety rules can only lead one to the conclusion that this is University policy. The professor can also make an excellent point as well that since his practices were tolerated he had implied consent to do what he did (or didn't do) so therefore he was acting on behalf of the university and must be covered. Who told him otherwise? Another example to illustrate your point may be the case of a professor who does not make his violations well known and despite good enforcement and audits his rule violations cause a problem. In that case there may be grounds to hang him out on his own. Eugene Satrun CIH CSP .............cut ..................................................... When we start asking "what if" questions where legal liability can be a consequence, the answer may not be consistent from case to case. Such is the landscape in a litigious society. I agree with what I see to be the point of Jim's question. In an injury case where a saw guard is deliberately removed, it seems easy to identify who is at fault for the resulting injury. Less easy to predict is the outcome where (for example) the claim is made that the instructor failed to adequately inform the injured student(s) about the hazards of the material that caused an injury. I have a hypothetical scenario I will offer to illustrate how I think something like this would play out. This scenario focuses on how a lawsuit might affect the specific individuals involved rather than the effect on the institution. ( And I, too, am not an attorney ; this is hypothetical and the results are a guess.) .............cut Professor Toodle is known for this position since he shares this philosophy freely at department meetings and other gatherings. (Dr. Toodle hasn't heard about the misfortunes of Professor Furstman - maybe.) So, one day Professor Toodle finds himself in a lawsuit strikingly similar to that of Professor Furstman. Will the university defend and pay settlements for Dr. Toodle? My guess is probably not. ........... cut Michael Ahler, CHO mahler@calpoly.edu Risk Management Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, California Dear NACHO members, The question was asked: "How would your campus risk manager distinguish this act from negligence by reason of malfeasance?" (concerning the deliberate removal of a table saw guard). I recently solicited comments from a couple of administrative sources concerning this question, and I will summarize the responses here. This is actually a question that is best answered by an attorney, and our campus Risk Manager is correct to stipulate that he isn't one. The University might, in a case like this, have liability under the malfeasance argument. But if the employee was named separately in the claim (which is common), the campus might elect not to provide any defense to the employee (or pay any of his/her damages, etc). [end of response summary] When we start asking "what if" questions where legal liability can be a consequence, the answer may not be consistent from case to case. Such is the landscape in a litigious society. I agree with what I see to be the point of Jim's question. In an injury case where a saw guard is deliberately removed, it seems easy to identify who is at fault for the resulting injury. Less easy to predict is the outcome where (for example) the claim is made that the instructor failed to adequately inform the injured student(s) about the hazards of the material that caused an injury. I have a hypothetical scenario I will offer to illustrate how I think something like this would play out. This scenario focuses on how a lawsuit might affect the specific individuals involved rather than the effect on the institution. ( And I, too, am not an attorney ; this is hypothetical and the results are a guess.) Let's say Professor Furstman did offer some instruction in the hazards of the materials in use and how to use them safely and what to do in case of accident. It's just awfully hard to be everywhere and to see what everyone is doing, and this time, despite the Furstman's best efforts, he/she was in the wrong place at the wrong time and was unable to alter the events that resulted in the injury. Dr. Furstman did make a sincere effort ( an unsuccessful one) to avoid accident and injury in the lab. My guess is that the university would indeed defend professor Furstman in court ( if necessary) and would pay damages or the settlement. My guess also says that the Dean would want some kind of effective (additional) effort mounted to increase the safety awareness in this and other laboratories under his/her influence. Let's say Professor Toodle (different department, same university) takes the position that safety training is a futile effort because students generally don't listen to it anyway and will do whatever comes to mind in the lab despite all warnings they have been given. Further, there is quite a lot of REAL work that needs to be done in the lab, so why waste a lab period or even a minute with useless blather about dangers that haven't caused a problem in decades anyway. Professor Toodle is known for this position since he shares this philosophy freely at department meetings and other gatherings. (Dr. Toodle hasn't heard about the misfortunes of Professor Furstman - maybe.) So, one day Professor Toodle finds himself in a lawsuit strikingly similar to that of Professor Furstman. Will the university defend and pay settlements for Dr. Toodle? My guess is probably not. This guess is based on the assumption that the university has an existing IIPP and other easily accessible laboratory safety policies and guidelines (Chemical Hygiene Plan) that Professor Toodle or anyone else has access to. Since Dr. Toodle has a documentable disdain for safety training and information, and there is an identifiable requirement to provide training and information, the university may elect to distance itself from Dr. Toodle's legal problem. And in this case also, my guess says that the Dean would want some kind of effective (additional) effort mounted to increase the safety awareness in this and other laboratories under his/her influence. And, ( a bit of input from our Risk Manager) "in the end [in either case], the unnecessary injury will have occurred, and the University will spend a lot of money defending and settling or possibly paying some or all of the judgement that an individual was harmed by the institution....a difficult one to "win"." Even though an individual ( the Drs. Toodle, Furstman, or the table saw guard remover) may be individually named in a suit, no suing attorney is going to ignore the deep pockets he sees at the university. Whether or not the individual is defended by the university, the institution will still have a claim against it. That's where the money is. Let me know if all this sounds impossible. I actually was prepared to exercise my extensive chemical background when I took this job. You never know which way the roller coaster will go next. My word processor runneth over. Thanks for listening. Michael Ahler, CHO mahler@calpoly.edu Risk Management Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, California ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:47:17 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Andrew Szilagyi Subject: Re: January Membership Drive Jim, My wife is just about to become a K-12 science teacher - I have been passing her appropriate traffic from this list - but also gave her the address et.al to distribute to the rest of her future teacher classmates. andy ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: January Membership Drive Author: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu at INTERNET Date: 1/15/1999 8:46 PM Hi NACHO Members, With all the discussion going on and new members introducing themselves, I thought this would be a good time to kick off the 1999 membership drive. Please tell five of your colleagues about NACHO. Put NACHO on the agenda for the next meeting of your professional organizations and within your department. Send a short message about NACHO to other discussion lists to which you belong. Post a NACHO notice on your hallway bulletin board. Rent a skywriter and .... (ok, I lost it)! You get the idea. ... jim ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at http://www.labsafety.org/ ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:20:15 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Barb Moore Subject: SILENT MEMBER MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I, too, for the most part have been a silent member and like many of you, I'm learning as I go. Colleges, I believe, are notorious for just paying lip service to this problems of safety. I came to this position when a lab technician we had left in the middle of a term after calling BWC about concerns of air handling in our stock room. My duties include office management (secretarial duties), OSHA regs, EPA regs, FDA, USDA, NRC. I, needless to say, feel totally overwhelmed and thank my good luck for finding this listserv. The resources that you people talk of are very useful. We have an Environmental Safety Coordinator and an Environmental Safety Committee. The Committee is made up of salaried personnel (no chemists, no biologists). The ESCoordinator is a part time position and filled by a person whose only prior resource is that he is a volunteer fireman. It has been difficult to make any kind of impression on our staff, but I must admit that when I present the regulations to my departmental chair, he is very supportive. When I began the clean up and new storage of chemicals (stored prior in alphabetical order), I met a great deal of resistance, but the faculty are finally getting behing the program and we are progressing. I have established a Filemaker Pro inventory system with bar coding. The challenges seem to mount exponentially, but I just try to tackle them one at a time. Thanks again for this wonderful resource. Barbara Moore Administrative Manager Biology Department College of Wooster ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:03:03 EST Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Requested Introduction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-01-19 15:24:20 EST, you write: << I have seen recently some problems in storage of chemicals that has concerned me and started me looking for resources. >> Consider David Pipitone's "Safe Storage of Chemicals in Laboratories", 2nd edition, John Wiley and Sons (also available from LSW). ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at http://www.labsafety.org/ ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:20:06 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Julie O'Brien Subject: Sodium azide Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I remember there being a discussion regarding azides on the listserv. I can't seem to find any of the e-mails in my archive, though. If anyone kept this info., could you please e-mail it to me. Thanks! Julie O'Brien Chemist PCR, Inc. PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 ext. 232 Fax 352-373-7503 afn35210@afn.org Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville PO Box 5951 Gainesville, FL 32627 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:48:08 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Paul J Fitzgerald Subject: Contact Lenses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings fellow NACHO members: I am a relatively new member who took over responsibility as CHO last September. Our lab is the central chemistry/radiochemistry/biology lab for an electric utility (Duke Power). I have a BS Chemistry and MSPH Environmental Chemistry, plus 16 years lab experience. This job was given to me in addition to my responsibilities as Quality Assurance Officer, and was supposed to take only 5% of my time, but I find that it's more like 15-20%! (I'm sure many of you can relate.) I have no background in chemical or industrial hygiene, so I've had to learn a lot, but this listserve has been very helpful for me. Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge. Question: Can someone direct me to a reference for the ACS guidance on contact lenses in labs? Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:06:57 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jennifer Reader Organization: Environmental Health and Safety Subject: Re: Concerning Liability and Malfeasance So why doesn't the University "do something" about Prof Toodle before he creates chaos? This is a mystery to me that no one wants to tackle the problem of recalcitrant faculty. Tenure should not protect you against failure to enforce the Employment Standards Act (overtime, hours of work, breaks etc), the Human Rights Code (discrimination based on sex, age, etc), OR the Health and Safety legislation. I've yet to see any leadership at the top of ANY university willing to tackle this issue by making the management of these laws a part of a faculty member's contract and therefore a part of his/her performance review (and grounds for termination if he/she refuses to comply). Off soapbox. Jennifer Reader, B.S., M.S.P.H. Hazardous Materials Safety Officer Environmental Health and Safety University of Guelph Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1 Canada 519-824-4120 X3190 Fax 519-824-0364 e-Mail jennifer@ehs.uoguelph.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:11:24 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Dave Gelpke Subject: Connecticut Valley Chapter, ASSE - Tech Ed offering Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii OVERHEAD CRANE AND HOIST SAFETY TECH SESSION MONDAY, FEBRUARY 8TH, 1999 1 PM TO 5 PM at BKM Total Office in East Hartford, Connecticut. Conducted by the Crane Institute of America, Inc The focus of the tech session covers the following topics: How to Train and Certify your Operators Lifting Responsibilities Applying OSHA and ANSI Standards Most Common Unsafe Crane and Rigging Practices Overhead Crane Inspections Recordkeeping The Crane Institute will provide handouts. CEUs applied for through ASSE is 0.4 ASSE Members $55.00 Non-members $75.00 Seating is limited. Sign up early to reserve a seat. Reservations must be made by Thursday, February 4th. Call Dave Gelpke at 203-639-2440 or email: dgelpke @ canberra.com Leave your name, phone number and address to reserve a spot in the session. All cancellations received after Thursday 2/4/99 will be billed. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:23:27 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Lenore Koliha Subject: Re: Requested Introduction In-Reply-To: <01BE43B5.7250EBC0@ppp10-50.dllstx.onramp.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Morning one and all, I have been subscribing to the list for some time now and am glad to see it growing. My position is Chemical Coordinator. I handle lab review/safety, training, chemical waste, inventory management, IAQ, spill response and whatever else the day holds. Currently, I am also working on rewriting our CHP. Words of wisdom are always appreciated. Have a good day! Lenore ***************************************************************** * * * Lenore Koliha e-mail: lkoliha@creighton.edu * * Chemical Coordinator ph#: (402)546-6404 * * Dept. EH&S fax: (402)546-6403 * * Creighton U. * * Jahn Bldg., Rm-110 * * 2204 Burt St. * * Omaha, NE 68178 * ***************************************************************** The true measure of a man is not by the life he leads... but by the memory he leaves