LABSAFETY-L Archive 9811 November 1998

LABSAFETY-L Archive 9811 November 1998

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==============================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:44:19 +1300
From: Peter Robinson <peter@HILL-LABS.CO.NZ>
Subject: Re: eye wash stations/safety showers
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Further to this. What is the alternative? Neutralise the acid? The =
heat of neutralisation would be even greater I guess.

Lots, and lots, and lots, of water is the first response as already =
mentioned by others.

As a sideline to this. We had a dispenser with 0.5% sodium carbonate =
solution. Not considered hazardous. BUT someone got a splash in their =
eye (around the edge of their glasses). Much pain, etc, and the high pH =
solution is even worse than acid for the eye. Much flushing with water. =
The tech was taken to an A&E clinic for checking. Thankfully no =
on-going problem, and this incident has sharpened up all our staff's =
awareness of the potential hazards in the lab.

Peter Robinson PhD FNZIC
Environmental Division Manager
Hill Laboratories, Private Bag 3205, Hamilton, NEW ZEALAND
Phone: +64 7 858 2000 Fax: +64 7 858 2001
Email: peter@hill-labs.co.nz

----------
From: Harry Elston
Sent: Saturday, 31 October 1998 3:28 am
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: eye wash stations/safety showers

At 09:00 AM 10/30/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Greetings Tom,
>Don't forget that sulfuric acid and cold water is an exothermic
>reaction, heat of dilution. It's enough to make the water boil. I've
>seen this myself.
>
>> the cold water, and cause additional eye
>> damage from the hot water itself as well as exagerate eye damage by
>creating an exothermic reaction, such as the mixing of H2SO4 with
>water in the eye.

I don't want to dwell on this point, but I think it should be mentioned.
Regardless of the contaminant on the skin or the eye, Lots-o-Water is =
THE
immedate first aid treatment of choice at the lab. I think that any
secondary damage to the tissue caused by the exothermic reaction of an =
acid
or base will be insignificant compared to leaving the contaminant on the
tissue itself while we waste time wondering what is the treatment of
choice. A few drops of concentrated sulfuric acid just won't react
significantly with a gallon of water. Don't let a little knowledge of
"chemistry" interfere with "physiology" by overanalyzing this situation.

Secondary treatment given by EMS or other health care professionals can =
be
more specific to the contaminant.

Eileen Segal in the last issue of Chemical Health and Safety did a
wonderful job discussing first aid for HF dermal/ocular exposure. =
Though
the recommended treatment for HF is only 5 minutes of flushing while EMS =
is
on it's way, the important point for this discussion, I believe, is that
flushing is still the recommended immediate action.

Harry Elston

Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO
Chemical Hygiene Officer
Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety
Opinions are mine, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah

"God made all those stars out of nothin'. He just
'pfffft' and there they were."
-Larry the Cucumber, Veggie Tales

==============================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:49:26 -0500
From: Don Abramowitz <dabramo1@SWARTHMORE.EDU>
Subject: Re: eye wash stations/safety showers
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Still more on the eyewash/shower question:

Regarding drench hoses, there are models that have valves that lock open
when activated. One we like has two bubbler-type nozzles at about eye
width, and it makes a fine eyewash as well as body drenching hose
(Speakman(r) twin spray).

Unfortunately, I believeit does not meet ANSI standards as an eyewash
because one must hold the handpiece while irrigating the eyes, so it is not
a hands-free operation (I suppose it could be hands-free if the mounting
bracket or counter-top hole is located just right). We have elected to
install them in some older labs
anyway, because they can be mounted near a sink through a hole in the
counter (the hose stores below the counter, like a spray hose on a kitchen
sink), and take up very little room where space is a problem. Also, the
labs are rarely occupied by only one person, so my hope is that hands-free
operation won't be a major issue.

In my hazardous waste site clean-up days, we used a portable bottle kit
that used sterilized, sealed bottles of saline that came in a snazzy,
portable plastic case of 6 bottles (Eyesaline(r)). My recollection is the
vendor claimed 15
minutes irrigation time could be achieved with the full set of bottles, and
it seemed like a reasonable thing to have on sites without water. Not ANSI
approved (certainly not hands free, and interruptions occur with bottle
changes), but perhaps an option for maintenance people or others working
remotely. If the expiration dates on the bottles are respected, and the
seals are not broken until needed, I think they would likely provide a
safe, though imperfect, source of irrigation.

I'd be curious to hear thoughts on the drenchhose/eyewash device especially.

Thanks,
Don

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don Abramowitz, CIH
Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer

Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081

Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:46:20 EST
From: Gilbert Smith <NRCC6@AOL.COM>
Subject: CHO CERTIFICATION EXAM
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The NRCC CHO certification exam is scheduled for Friday afternoon (3 hours),
Jan 8, 1999 at the NEW SAFETY'99 program in Hartford, CT. There is a separate
application process for the exam. It takes approximately 4 weeks to process
an exam application. Applications to sit for the CHO certification exam may
be requested from: NRCC6@aol.com. Information may be viewed at:
http://members.aol.com/nrcc6.nrcc.htm

Gilbert Smith
NRCC
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:19:02 EST
From: Brian Wazlaw <BriWazlaw@AOL.COM>
Subject: Lab Safety Sabbatical
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I am planning to apply for a sabbatical for the coming school year (99-00).
My sabbatical plan will focus on developing a lab safety plan and a CHP. The
lab safety plan and CHP will apply to grades 6 - 12 which consists of 2
schools, 2900 students, and 23 science teachers.
Where do I begin? Do I take various OSHA courses? What college
courses/workshops are available? What information and institutions should I
contact? I am aware of the CHO Safety Workshop Jan. 6 - 8 in Hartford Conn.
How should I structure my one year sabbatical leave? Any ideas? I am open to
all suggestions.
Forgot to mention, I teach 9th grade science and chemistry at Exeter High
School.

Thanks,
Brian Wazlaw
Exeter High School
Exeter, NH 03833 603 436-2833
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:54:14 -0500
From: Mary Ann Solstad <msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET>
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Sabbatical
In-Reply-To: <84c9b03b.363e6816@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:19 PM 11/2/98 EST, you wrote:
> I am planning to apply for a sabbatical for the coming school year (99-00).
>My sabbatical plan will focus on developing a lab safety plan and a CHP.
The
>lab safety plan and CHP will apply to grades 6 - 12 which consists of 2
>schools, 2900 students, and 23 science teachers.
> Where do I begin? Do I take various OSHA courses? What college
>courses/workshops are available? What information and institutions should I
>contact? I am aware of the CHO Safety Workshop Jan. 6 - 8 in Hartford Conn.
> How should I structure my one year sabbatical leave? Any ideas? I am open to
>all suggestions.
> Forgot to mention, I teach 9th grade science and chemistry at
Exeter High
>School.
>
>Thanks,
> Brian Wazlaw
> Exeter High School
> Exeter, NH 03833 603 436-2833

I can only offer little odds and ends of advice. Yes, take the CHO
workshop. Get into one of Jim Kaufman's Lab Safety Workshops. Neither one
of these is a road map for your task, more like roadside attractions.
Just out, ACS books has a "Guide for CHOs, written by 3 colleagues of mine,
Some 6 to 10 years ago Lewis publishers had a useful volume by Jay Young.
It could very well be out of print--good ones always are.
I think it's important for your teachers to "own" the CHP. They will be
judged by how they follow the written plan--tell them that and they will
want to have input. Start by asking them to do a job hazard analysis for
their room, or different activities they do.
Learn the basic principles of toxicology, to inform yourself and then your
staff. If you don't do this, then all the MSDSs and some general
references will scare you without informing you too much. For one thing,
those references are directed towards larger, (industrial) volumes than you
should have in you classrooms. When you are trying to sort all that out,
break your chemicals down into general types: hydrocarbons, alcohols,
acids (strong and weaker), bases, heavy metals, etc. Within each class the
properties are affected by molecular weight. If you don't know organic
chem, get someone who does to help you.

Get hold of some back issues of Chemical HEalth & Safety, especially the
earlier ones when the Lab Standard was still sort of new.

Good luck. I'm sure others on the list will have better road maps.

Mary Ann
Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety
SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude
16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness
781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application
Authority
DivCHAS Chair, ACS
msolstad@mediaone.net
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:41:50 -0500
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Sabbatical
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Howdy Brian.

Having the desire to make this a priority and focus for a year will carry =
you a long way toward the goal. I have been involved with safety since I =
became pregnant while employed as an analytical chemist eight years ago =
now. Nothing like a very personal reason to get you involved in something =
new. At the time the lab standard was just being implemented in industry =
and no one new where it was going.

I would say that attending the safety conference at Trinity College will =
be a great first step. You will have the opportunity to meet and chat =
with those who are doing what you are doing as well as those who have made =
some strives at accomplishing what you are attempting. The key is to get =
your hands on some reference materials and an outline of sorts. The first =
real step will be the hazard analysis. I agree that you will be most =
successful if you can get the teachers you work with to take on this task. =
You can make it easier by providing them with a form and some support =
info to help them make their determinations.

I would say that you would be better prepared to start this initial phase =
once you have attended the Winter Safety conf. I have just recently =
worked with faculty here in the med school to put together a CHP for the =
Gross Anatomy Lab. I found a great deal of support and gained lots of =
needed info by having a couple of very focused meetings with the group in =
question. Holding fruitful meetings is an art form in and of itself. One =
key, keep the group small and focused on a specific point. Never meet for =
more than 45 minutes. =20

Given our close proximity, geographically speaking, and our common ground =
in education, please feel free to contact me as you get going and I would =
be happy to help you out where I can.

*****************
Janeen Lapierre, CHO
College of Osteopathic Medicine
University of New England
11 Hills Beach Road
Biddeford, ME 04005

E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU
Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446
Opinions are mine and not those of UNE.=20

>>> Brian Wazlaw <BriWazlaw@AOL.COM> - 11/2/98 9:19 PM >>>
I am planning to apply for a sabbatical for the coming school year =
(99-00).
My sabbatical plan will focus on developing a lab safety plan and a CHP. =
The
lab safety plan and CHP will apply to grades 6 - 12 which consists of 2
schools, 2900 students, and 23 science teachers.
Where do I begin? Do I take various OSHA courses? What college
courses/workshops are available? What information and institutions should =
I
contact? I am aware of the CHO Safety Workshop Jan. 6 - 8 in Hartford =
Conn.
How should I structure my one year sabbatical leave? Any ideas? I am open =
to
all suggestions.
Forgot to mention, I teach 9th grade science and chemistry at =
Exeter High
School.

Thanks,
Brian Wazlaw
Exeter High School
Exeter, NH 03833 603 436-2833
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:16:44 -0400
From: Don Abramowitz <dabramo1@SWARTHMORE.EDU>
Subject: Fire Question
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

This question is a short walk from laboratory safety (to the campus cafe,
actually), but I would appreciate any insights on the following:

We had a small fire* recently in our cafe that started in a plastic trash
can (probably no lid) used to collect used clean-up rags for laundering.
The smoke detectors and sprinkler tripped around 6:00 AM, about 7 hours
after the building was closed up for the night. Investigators speculate
that a rag may have been used to wipe down the hot grill, then unknowingly
placed in
the can smoldering. My question concerns the actual cause of ignition.

The grill is frequently cleaned while hot using a good squirt
of cooking oil, which ends up on the rag when it makes its way to the can.
The oil in this instance is a blend of "vegetable" oil, soybean oil, and
"olive pomace" oil. The rags also contain some sooty cooking grease and
oil residues that had been well heated in the course of cooking. Other
cleaning rags in the can contain residues of glass cleaner, all purpose
cleaner, and a
degreaser containing some monoethanolamine.

My question is: Does anyone know of any cooking oils capable of
reacting/polymerizing
with air to generate heat, the way linseed oil does, so as to be able to
set rags on fire by "spontaneous combustion"?
I believe boiled linseed oil is more likely than raw linseed oil to
self-ignite, and I'm wondering if the cooked oils might behave similarly.

As to the theory that a rag was heated on the grill to the point of
smoldering, then carried a good distance (down a flight of stairs) to the
storage can by hand, I'm
thinking that hand would notice something was amiss. Also, with the oil on
the rag, I imagine it would be likely to burn with a flame rather than
smolder for many hours if it was so heated. I don't expect that the
cleaning products would react with anything in the can, as they are fairly
diluted in water in use, but I'm open to ideas.

In any case, we will be switching to a self-closing metal can for
collecting our wash rags.

I would appreciate any information, opinions, or from-the-hip theories on
possible fire causes in this situation.

Thanks,
Don

*The fire stayed small thanks to a sprinkler head directly over the can. A
textbook argument for sprinklering every campus building!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don Abramowitz, CIH
Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer

Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081

Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:13:22 EST
From: "Gilbert E. Smith" <GSmith3792@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CHO CERTIFICATION EXAM
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Corrected web address:
http://members.aol.com/nrcc6/nrcc.htm

Sorry for error.

Gilbert Smith
NRCC
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:25:11 -0500
From: "David (Fuzz) Harrison" <fdh@ARETHA.JAX.ORG>
Subject: Re: CHO CERTIFICATION EXAM
In-Reply-To: <562e6f42.363e1a1c@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dear Gilbert:
The site you posted causes a default error in my email and netscape when I
try to access it from email, and when I go straight from netscape I get
"The requested URL was not found on this server." Perhaps it's a problem
with my computer/software, but can you verify the address for me? Thanks.

At 03:46 PM 11/2/98 EST, you wrote:
>The NRCC CHO certification exam is scheduled for Friday afternoon (3 hours),
>Jan 8, 1999 at the NEW SAFETY'99 program in Hartford, CT. There is a
separate
>application process for the exam. It takes approximately 4 weeks to process
>an exam application. Applications to sit for the CHO certification exam may
>be requested from: NRCC6@aol.com. Information may be viewed at:
>http://members.aol.com/nrcc6.nrcc.htm
>
>Gilbert Smith
>NRCC
>
Fuzz Harrison, Industrial Hygienist
The Jackson Laboratory, 600 Main Street, Bar Harbor ME 04609-1500
(http://www.jax.org/)
207.288.6473 voice, 207.288.6147 fax, fdh@.jax.org email
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:48:27 -0500
From: Dave Gelpke <dgelpke@CANBERRA.COM>
Subject: Tech Session - Open to all
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OSHA's New Respiratory Protection Standard 1910.134
Presented by CT Valley Chapter, American Society of Safety Engineers

November 18, 1998 7:30 A.M. - 12:00 P.M. Hawthorne Inn, Berlin Turnpike,
Berlin, CT
Agenda
7:30 A.M. Registration and continental breakfast 8 :00 A.M.
Seminar 10:15 A.M. Break
10:30 A.M. Seminar 11:45 A.M. Interactive Discussion 12:00
P.M. End

Topics

--0__=H5oxFYftldPk6ItuQ7tVEk7Xcby8v3X1b5qz1829fwvEUwMJ6sRpO97k
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=B7Compliance Dates =B7Annual Fit Testing =B7Voluntary Dus=
t Masks
=B7NIOSH/ANSI Standards =B7New Definitions
=B7Fire Brigade's new rule "Two in Two Out" =B7Written Program

Speaker
Martin J. Lewis, CIH, CSP - Certified Industrial Hygienist and Certi=
fied
Safety Professional in comprehensive practice. Marty has over 18 year=
s of
experience in respiratory protection program administration inclu=
ding
performing exposure assessments, selection of respirators and empl=
oyee
training.

About the Seminar
OSHA recently issued the first major change to their respiratory protec=
tion
standard in 18 years. The seminar is designed to provide participants
information about the new regulations and how it will impact your
organization. This seminar will benefit respiratory program
administrators, medical personnel, safety, human resources, fire person=
nel,
corporate auditors and others involved with respiratory protection. The=

seminar will help explain the new changes and prepare you for implement=
ing
the new requirements. Professionals can also benefit by gaining knowle=
dge
of the standards without having to review in detail the 150 pages of
Federal Register preamble text.

Registration
Call Martin Lewis at: (860) 290-6665 x127 or Fax to: (860) 290-6673 to =
make
reservations. Name, Address, Phone and email. Awarded .4 CEUs=
and
.5 CMs #11679.
Payment: $65.00 Fee payable to CT Valley Chapter, ASSE.
For cancellations please call before November 13,1998.
=

--0__=H5oxFYftldPk6ItuQ7tVEk7Xcby8v3X1b5qz1829fwvEUwMJ6sRpO97k--
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:05:12 -0500
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: Fire Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In general, spontaneous combustion starts by oxidation of double and triple
bonds in the oil. linseed has a lot of triple bonds and is a triglyceride.
Cooking oils are also triglycerides, but with less unsaturation. IMHO, it
could happen!

Hope that helps.

Bob

"Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!"

Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
RUETGERS Organics Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Abramowitz <dabramo1@SWARTHMORE.EDU>
To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu <LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 11:18
Subject: Fire Question

>This question is a short walk from laboratory safety (to the campus cafe,
>actually), but I would appreciate any insights on the following:
>
>We had a small fire* recently in our cafe that started in a plastic trash
>can (probably no lid) used to collect used clean-up rags for laundering.
>The smoke detectors and sprinkler tripped around 6:00 AM, about 7 hours
>after the building was closed up for the night. Investigators speculate
>that a rag may have been used to wipe down the hot grill, then unknowingly
>placed in
>the can smoldering. My question concerns the actual cause of ignition.
>
>The grill is frequently cleaned while hot using a good squirt
>of cooking oil, which ends up on the rag when it makes its way to the can.
>The oil in this instance is a blend of "vegetable" oil, soybean oil, and
>"olive pomace" oil. The rags also contain some sooty cooking grease and
>oil residues that had been well heated in the course of cooking. Other
>cleaning rags in the can contain residues of glass cleaner, all purpose
>cleaner, and a
>degreaser containing some monoethanolamine.
>
>My question is: Does anyone know of any cooking oils capable of
>reacting/polymerizing
>with air to generate heat, the way linseed oil does, so as to be able to
>set rags on fire by "spontaneous combustion"?
>I believe boiled linseed oil is more likely than raw linseed oil to
>self-ignite, and I'm wondering if the cooked oils might behave similarly.
>
>As to the theory that a rag was heated on the grill to the point of
>smoldering, then carried a good distance (down a flight of stairs) to the
>storage can by hand, I'm
>thinking that hand would notice something was amiss. Also, with the oil on
>the rag, I imagine it would be likely to burn with a flame rather than
>smolder for many hours if it was so heated. I don't expect that the
>cleaning products would react with anything in the can, as they are fairly
>diluted in water in use, but I'm open to ideas.
>
>In any case, we will be switching to a self-closing metal can for
>collecting our wash rags.
>
>I would appreciate any information, opinions, or from-the-hip theories on
>possible fire causes in this situation.
>
> Thanks,
> Don
>
>*The fire stayed small thanks to a sprinkler head directly over the can. A
>textbook argument for sprinklering every campus building!
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~
> Don Abramowitz, CIH
> Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer
>
> Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
> 101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
> Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081
>
>Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
>Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
>
>
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:33:24 -0500
From: Dewey Williams <williams@EMAIL.UNCC.EDU>
Subject: First Contact - player2.trn (was Re: Fire Question)
Comments: To: verruchter@menagerie.net
In-Reply-To: <v01540b05b264c7d1ab9a@[165.106.151.38]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_75976092==_"

--=====================_75976092==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11/3/98 -0400, you wrote:
>This question is a short walk from laboratory safety (to the campus cafe,
>actually), but I would appreciate any insights on the following:
>
>We had a small fire* recently in our cafe that started in a plastic trash
>can (probably no lid) used to collect used clean-up rags for laundering.
>The smoke detectors and sprinkler tripped around 6:00 AM, about 7 hours
>after the building was closed up for the night. Investigators speculate
>that a rag may have been used to wipe down the hot grill, then unknowingly
>placed in
>the can smoldering. My question concerns the actual cause of ignition.
>
>The grill is frequently cleaned while hot using a good squirt
>of cooking oil, which ends up on the rag when it makes its way to the can.
>The oil in this instance is a blend of "vegetable" oil, soybean oil, and
>"olive pomace" oil. The rags also contain some sooty cooking grease and
>oil residues that had been well heated in the course of cooking. Other
>cleaning rags in the can contain residues of glass cleaner, all purpose
>cleaner, and a
>degreaser containing some monoethanolamine.
>
>My question is: Does anyone know of any cooking oils capable of
>reacting/polymerizing
>with air to generate heat, the way linseed oil does, so as to be able to
>set rags on fire by "spontaneous combustion"?
>I believe boiled linseed oil is more likely than raw linseed oil to
>self-ignite, and I'm wondering if the cooked oils might behave similarly.
>
>As to the theory that a rag was heated on the grill to the point of
>smoldering, then carried a good distance (down a flight of stairs) to the
>storage can by hand, I'm
>thinking that hand would notice something was amiss. Also, with the oil on
>the rag, I imagine it would be likely to burn with a flame rather than
>smolder for many hours if it was so heated. I don't expect that the
>cleaning products would react with anything in the can, as they are fairly
>diluted in water in use, but I'm open to ideas.
>
>In any case, we will be switching to a self-closing metal can for
>collecting our wash rags.
>
>I would appreciate any information, opinions, or from-the-hip theories on
>possible fire causes in this situation.
>
> Thanks,
> Don
>
>*The fire stayed small thanks to a sprinkler head directly over the can. A
>textbook argument for sprinklering every campus building!
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Don Abramowitz, CIH
> Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer
>
> Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
> 101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
> Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081
>
>Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
>Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837

==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:39:26 +1300
From: Tony Haggerty <techton@IHUG.CO.NZ>
Subject: Re: Fire Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Don,
I can confirm that cooking oils have been known to spontaneously =
combust. It is relatively rare compared to Linseed or Tung Oils but =
under some circumstances has happened.

Our experience has been with Take-Away premises catching fire. The =
theory has been that although cooking oils are well down the index of =
Spontaneous Combustibility, the fact that the oils are pre warmed and =
that the disposal environment is also often warm, pre disposes the oils =
to oxidise and combust.

Another factor is the use of cotton rags which have a lower auto =
ignition temperature than synthetics but are used because of their =
absorbent capabilities.

The Fire Safety advice is to use a metal can with a lid, reducing the =
available oxygen. If that is not immediately available then the rags =
should be spread out flat and the oxidation can take place with the =
dissipation of the heat safely to atmosphere.

Tony Haggerty
Hazardous Substance Adviser
For
The Regional Manager
Auckland Region

==============================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:58:24 EST
From: Brian Wazlaw <BriWazlaw@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Sabbatical
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Janeen,

I will be in contact with you. I will probably need your help.

Brian
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:06:00 -0500
From: "Tayman, Tammy" <ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US>
Subject: Re: Fire Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

A response from a friend of mine who is a Compliance Officer as well as
having 20+ years in fire and rescue services and serving on the local Haz
Mat Team:

Very interesting situation. I'm at a loss as to a potential cause,
but the rag placed smoldering into the can doesn't seem likely. And he also
stated the "Investigators speculate[d]" as to the cause, so it would seem
that they aren't sure either. Probably couldn't come up with anything else,
so they called it smoldering.

It's not stated whether the author got to see what was left in the
can
after the fire. If the material in the can was pretty much "decomposed,"
then I think the "smoldering cause" could be valid. Additionally, I'd want
to know if the complete contents of the can was *thoroughly* check for
another ignition source, such as a match. The fire in a laundry bin at
Leland Memorial was term "unknown cause." Yet, the day after the fire, I
inspected the laundry bin and found a burnt match. While there's the
possibility the match could have been tossed in after the other contents had
been removed, it also poses the possibility that it could have been a set
fire.

If you see any outcome or additional information on this incident,
I'd appreciate it if you'd send me the e-mail.

P.S. - the note about sprinkling all campus builds is *SO* important. :)

----------
From: Don Abramowitz
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Fire Question
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 10:16AM

This question is a short walk from laboratory safety (to the campus cafe,
actually), but I would appreciate any insights on the following:

We had a small fire* recently in our cafe that started in a plastic trash
can (probably no lid) used to collect used clean-up rags for laundering.
The smoke detectors and sprinkler tripped around 6:00 AM, about 7 hours
after the building was closed up for the night. Investigators speculate
that a rag may have been used to wipe down the hot grill, then unknowingly
placed in
the can smoldering. My question concerns the actual cause of ignition.

The grill is frequently cleaned while hot using a good squirt
of cooking oil, which ends up on the rag when it makes its way to the can.
The oil in this instance is a blend of "vegetable" oil, soybean oil, and
"olive pomace" oil. The rags also contain some sooty cooking grease and
oil residues that had been well heated in the course of cooking. Other
cleaning rags in the can contain residues of glass cleaner, all purpose
cleaner, and a
degreaser containing some monoethanolamine.

My question is: Does anyone know of any cooking oils capable of
reacting/polymerizing
with air to generate heat, the way linseed oil does, so as to be able to
set rags on fire by "spontaneous combustion"?
I believe boiled linseed oil is more likely than raw linseed oil to
self-ignite, and I'm wondering if the cooked oils might behave similarly.

As to the theory that a rag was heated on the grill to the point of
smoldering, then carried a good distance (down a flight of stairs) to the
storage can by hand, I'm
thinking that hand would notice something was amiss. Also, with the oil on
the rag, I imagine it would be likely to burn with a flame rather than
smolder for many hours if it was so heated. I don't expect that the
cleaning products would react with anything in the can, as they are fairly
diluted in water in use, but I'm open to ideas.

In any case, we will be switching to a self-closing metal can for
collecting our wash rags.

I would appreciate any information, opinions, or from-the-hip theories on
possible fire causes in this situation.

Thanks,
Don

*The fire stayed small thanks to a sprinkler head directly over the can. A
textbook argument for sprinklering every campus building!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~
Don Abramowitz, CIH
Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer

Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081

Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:31:23 -0700
From: "Greene, Ben" <bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Lab Safety Training Videos
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Anyone know of sources (titles, vendors) for some REALLY attention
grabbing, industrial strength, chemistry lab- or hazardous
materials-related safety training videos? I'd like some of our lab
workers to see some compressed gas cylinders rocketing about, lab
accident investigations, etc. I'm familiar with what is currently
available through ACS, Lab Safety Supply, Howard Hughes Medical
Institute, and I have the 1968 Eye and Face Protection video.

Ben Greene, Ph.D (Chemical Hygiene Officer)
AlliedSignal
PO Box 20
Las Cruces, NM 88004
Ph. 505-524-5761
Fax 505-524-5597
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:25:01 -0600
From: "Lampe Hannasch, Kay" <LAMPEHANNKM@PHIBRED.COM>
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Training Videos
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Contact the Compressed Gas Association for their safety training videotapes
about cylinders. These are well done.

Kay Lampe Hannasch, Safety Manager - Research Labs
Pioneer Hi-Bred International, Inc.

The opinions expressed here are mine, not that of my employer.

-----Original Message-----
From: Greene, Ben [mailto:bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV]
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 8:31 AM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Lab Safety Training Videos

Anyone know of sources (titles, vendors) for some REALLY attention
grabbing, industrial strength, chemistry lab- or hazardous
materials-related safety training videos? I'd like some of our lab
workers to see some compressed gas cylinders rocketing about, lab
accident investigations, etc. I'm familiar with what is currently
available through ACS, Lab Safety Supply, Howard Hughes Medical
Institute, and I have the 1968 Eye and Face Protection video.

Ben Greene, Ph.D (Chemical Hygiene Officer)
AlliedSignal
PO Box 20
Las Cruces, NM 88004
Ph. 505-524-5761
Fax 505-524-5597
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:22:34 EDT
From: Jennifer Reader <JENNIFER@EHS.UOGUELPH.CA>
Organization: Environmental Health and Safety
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Training Videos

The Crash Boom Bang video is:

Introduction to Reactive and Explosive Materials
Produced by Hazards Productions Inc.

We bought ours from Westwood Screen, Mississauga Ontario
416-890-2305.

It says on t he tape distributed by
NUS Training Corporation
Gaithersburg, Md.

800-338-1505

I have no idea if it is still made or whether the company is
still in business. The tape was made in l988. Everyone loves
it that sees it. It was expensive at the time, something like
$300 plus.

Good luck.

Jennifer Reader, B.S., M.S.P.H.
Hazardous Materials Safety Officer
Environmental Health and Safety
University of Guelph
Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1 Canada
519-824-4120 X3190 Fax 519-824-0364
e-Mail jennifer@ehs.uoguelph.ca
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:37:10 +0000
Reply-To: rbyingtn@memphis.edu
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rbyingtn@latte.memphis.edu>
From: Bob Byington <rbyingtn@LATTE.MEMPHIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Training Videos
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Ben,
There are two good sources for compressed gas cylinder safety
training materials. J.T. Baker has some good still shots of the
aftermath of a "rocketing" of cylinders that we are presently using.
I am not aware of any videos showing an actual mishap of this nature,
but you might try companies like Air Products or any compressed gas
cylinder company. I have used Air Products people as outside
training sources when I was Safety Officer for Scientific &
Regulatory Affairs with Schering-Plough HealthCare Products. They
are usually all to happy to come out and assist in training of safe
handling of their product.

As far as Chemical Hygiene issues, "outcome" slides which show
effects that chemicals have on the human body are usually enough to
scare the crud out of people. Again, if you are going for this type
of shock treatment, J.T. Baker has some wonderful slides. No, this
is not a shameless plug nor am I compensated by Baker for this, it
just what we use and it has always proven effective. If its gross,
it will grab their attention.

Hope this helps,

Bob Byington
Laboratory Safety Specialist
Environmental Health and Safety
111 Brister Tower
The University of Memphis
Memphis, TN 38152-6191
(901) 678-4672 fax (901) 678-4673
email to: rbyingtn@memphis.edu
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:24:49 -0600
From: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Training Videos
In-Reply-To: <475CE84BF0@ehsnet.nw.uoguelph.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Ditto - we use it in our lab-safety training. Not a stand-alone video, but
many nice explosions.

JNR

>The Crash Boom Bang video is:
>
>Introduction to Reactive and Explosive Materials
>Produced by Hazards Productions Inc.

Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu

"The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise
specified."
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:55:52 -0800
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Training Videos
In-Reply-To: <475CE84BF0@ehsnet.nw.uoguelph.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:22 AM 11/4/98 EDT, you wrote:
>The Crash Boom Bang video is:
>
>Introduction to Reactive and Explosive Materials
>Produced by Hazards Productions Inc.
>
>We bought ours from Westwood Screen, Mississauga Ontario
>416-890-2305.
>
Yup - I'll second this one. It's a good one though it's a bit out of date
on the classifications of explosives (in light of HM181 etc.). I haven't
been able to find out if these guys made any more or if the tape has been
updated. The explosions are cool and the chemistry is good.

Deb.

Debbie Decker
EH&S UCDavis
(530)754-7964
dmdecker@ucdavis.edu
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:22:50 -0500
From: Paula Ortiz <portiz@WSCC.EDU>
Subject: visually impaired
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi NACHO'ers,

I have a question. We currently have a visually impaired student in a
chemistry class that has a lab section. Under ADA, we cannot dismiss the
student from the class so...we have to protect this individual as well as
the "seeing eye dog". Has anyone had any experience with visually impaired
students with seeing eye dogs? Does anyone know where I can purchase
safety goggles for the dog? I need your help...PLEASE!!!!!

Thanks...:)

Paula Ortiz, CCHO, CPT
Science Laboratory Technician
Washington State Community College
710 Colegate Dr.
Marietta, OH 45750
phone: 740-374.8716
email: portiz@wscc.edu
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:56:41 -0500
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: visually impaired
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

What I would try to do is ask the student to keep the dog outside the lab
door. Guide dogs will sit and stay on command. Then ask another student to
work with the visually impaired one in lab. That seems to be "reasonable
accommodation" as required by ADA. You're going to have to have another
person present anyway to tell about color changes and pH meter readings and
the like.

Just my opinion.

Bob

"Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!"

Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
RUETGERS Organics Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Paula Ortiz <portiz@WSCC.EDU>
To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu <LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 13:18
Subject: visually impaired

>Hi NACHO'ers,
>
>I have a question. We currently have a visually impaired student in a
>chemistry class that has a lab section. Under ADA, we cannot dismiss the
>student from the class so...we have to protect this individual as well as
>the "seeing eye dog". Has anyone had any experience with visually impaired
>students with seeing eye dogs? Does anyone know where I can purchase
>safety goggles for the dog? I need your help...PLEASE!!!!!
>
>
>Thanks...:)
>
>
>Paula Ortiz, CCHO, CPT
>Science Laboratory Technician
>Washington State Community College
>710 Colegate Dr.
>Marietta, OH 45750
>phone: 740-374.8716
>email: portiz@wscc.edu
>
>
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:28:36 -0500
From: Mary Ann Solstad <msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET>
Subject: Re: visually impaired
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981104132250.00695390@wscc.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:22 PM 11/4/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi NACHO'ers,
>
>I have a question. We currently have a visually impaired student in a
>chemistry class that has a lab section. Under ADA, we cannot dismiss the
>student from the class so...we have to protect this individual as well as
>the "seeing eye dog". Has anyone had any experience with visually impaired
>students with seeing eye dogs? Does anyone know where I can purchase
>safety goggles for the dog? I need your help...PLEASE!!!!!
>
>
>Thanks...:)
>
>
>Paula Ortiz, CCHO, CPT
>Science Laboratory Technician
>Washington State Community College
>710 Colegate Dr.
>Marietta, OH 45750
>phone: 740-374.8716
>email: portiz@wscc.edu
>
How visually impaired? Can she see light and dark, or are things totally
dark. For the sake of her dog, I would recommend that the dog be kept in a
nearby anteroom or hall. His sensitive nose would probably go into
overdrive and make the dog miserable. Not to mention the effect of any
spill, or spill residue on nose or unprotected feet. There is also a
tripping hazard from a dog trying to rest in the usually narrow aisles.
Those dogs are usually well-trained enough to stay put until called.

Good luck,

Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety
SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude
16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness
781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application
Authority
DivCHAS Chair, ACS
msolstad@mediaone.net
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:50:55 -0800
From: Mike hinz <mhinz@WSU.EDU>
Subject: Blind student
Comments: To: portiz@wscc.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Paula,
We had a blind student a few years ago. In a similar situation, we
have a quadriplegic student now and have had several paraplegic students.
These special needs students are paired with an able bodied student or a
facilitator and make observations of that which takes place or is described
to them. We have actually had more difficulty accommodating deaf students
but these students have not been that tough to put through chemistry. It
just takes people who refuse to think of what can't be done and instead
think of what can be done.
For the dog's safety I would suggest it stay out of the lab. No
telling what it might pick up on its feet off the lab floor, for example.
Being from Washington State University, I'm curious as to how your
school came by its name.

Mike Hinz
Chemistry Dept.
Washington State University
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:41:00 -0500
From: "Tayman, Tammy" <ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US>
Subject: Re: visually impaired
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Does ADA say that we have to accomodate the DOG?
----------
From: Paula Ortiz
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: visually impaired
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 1:22PM

Hi NACHO'ers,

I have a question. We currently have a visually impaired student in a
chemistry class that has a lab section. Under ADA, we cannot dismiss the
student from the class so...we have to protect this individual as well as
the "seeing eye dog". Has anyone had any experience with visually impaired
students with seeing eye dogs? Does anyone know where I can purchase
safety goggles for the dog? I need your help...PLEASE!!!!!

Thanks...:)

Paula Ortiz, CCHO, CPT
Science Laboratory Technician
Washington State Community College
710 Colegate Dr.
Marietta, OH 45750
phone: 740-374.8716
email: portiz@wscc.edu
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:51:00 -0500
From: "Tayman, Tammy" <ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US>
Subject: Re: visually impaired
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Our DSS (Disabled Student Services - not the most PC name!) office supplies
assistants, interpreters, etc. for this sort of thing. I would much prefer
that over letting that poor dog into the lab! There's no way the dog could
give informed consent! ;>

Tammy Tayman
----------
From: Bob Burns
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: visually impaired
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 1:56PM

What I would try to do is ask the student to keep the dog outside the lab
door. Guide dogs will sit and stay on command. Then ask another student to
work with the visually impaired one in lab. That seems to be "reasonable
accommodation" as required by ADA. You're going to have to have another
person present anyway to tell about color changes and pH meter readings and
the like.

Just my opinion.

Bob

"Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!"

Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
RUETGERS Organics Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Paula Ortiz <portiz@WSCC.EDU>
To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu <LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 13:18
Subject: visually impaired

>Hi NACHO'ers,
>
>I have a question. We currently have a visually impaired student in a
>chemistry class that has a lab section. Under ADA, we cannot dismiss the
>student from the class so...we have to protect this individual as well as
>the "seeing eye dog". Has anyone had any experience with visually impaired
>students with seeing eye dogs? Does anyone know where I can purchase
>safety goggles for the dog? I need your help...PLEASE!!!!!
>
>
>Thanks...:)
>
>
>Paula Ortiz, CCHO, CPT
>Science Laboratory Technician
>Washington State Community College
>710 Colegate Dr.
>Marietta, OH 45750
>phone: 740-374.8716
>email: portiz@wscc.edu
>
>
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:45:34 -0500
From: "Norman, Randy" <RNorman@BIORELIANCE.COM>
Subject: Re: visually impaired
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

<Does ADA say that we have to accomodate the DOG?>

I take it you were responding to the absurdity of the idea of a dog
in Safety Goggles?

It would seem that we certainly cannot flatly ignore the dog. So in that
respect we need to work out some kind of arrangement to deal with the dog
while the student is in class as part of our accomodating the student. I
can't say what might come out in a court of law, but the dog has to be
figured into the equation somewhere.

Randy Norman
Safety Specialist Sr.
BioReliance Corporation
Rockville, MD 20850
Rnorman@bioreliance.com <mailto:Rnorman@bioreliance.com>

"Success is a journey, not a destination" - Ben Sweetland

From: Paula Ortiz
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: visually impaired
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 1:22PM

Hi NACHO'ers,

I have a question. We currently have a visually impaired student in
a
chemistry class that has a lab section. Under ADA, we cannot
dismiss the
student from the class so...we have to protect this individual as
well as
the "seeing eye dog". Has anyone had any experience with visually
impaired
students with seeing eye dogs? Does anyone know where I can
purchase
safety goggles for the dog? I need your help...PLEASE!!!!!

Thanks...:)

Paula Ortiz, CCHO, CPT
Science Laboratory Technician
Washington State Community College
710 Colegate Dr.
Marietta, OH 45750
phone: 740-374.8716
email: portiz@wscc.edu
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:53:44 EST
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: NACHO Update
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_910270425_boundary"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Hi NACHO Members,

Our numbers are growing. There's been a recent bust of new folks joining the
association. Let's all keep finding new members. Be selfish! The more folks
who join, the larger the brain bank to solve our problems. Can we reach 1,000
by January 1st? Not without your help. Please post the membership
announcement (attached) to all the other lists/newsgroups/bulletin boards/etc.
you can think of.

Work for NACHO? We do have a steering committee. It's composed of all the
members who would like to work on a project to develop and improve our
association. Please let me know if you are interested.

Next NACHO meeting! We are planning a public meeting in conjunction with the
New Safety '99 conference being held the first week in January at Trinity
College in Hartford, CT. The meeting is likely to be in the evening from
6-9pm following the CHO Workshop. As the date and location become clearer, it
will be announced here. Naturally, you know what will be served.

The ACS meeting in Anaheim, CA in March will be the site of the next NACHO
meeting. We will repeat the idea of a breakfast which was so successful in
Boston this past Fall. The NACHO Breakfast will be held from 7-8:30am on the
first Monday of the ACS meeting. It will be in the restaurant of the same
hotel as the meeting of the Council Committee on Chemical Safety. The CCCS
meets from 8:30 to Noon.

Last thought. What can we do to improve NACHO? ... jim

*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education

The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.

The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSI.
Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG
**********************************************************************

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<HTML><PRE>The National Association of Chemical Hygiene Officers is a
new professional organization for CHO's. Affiliate membership
is open to anyone interested in CHO/CHP/Lab safety issues.
Membership is free.

Members interested in the discussion of lab safety, CHO/CHP, and
organizational issues will be able to share ideas and information on
the LABSAFETY-L list.

To become a member or affiliate member, subscribe to LABSAFETY-L.

Send a message to LISTSERV@SIU.EDU. In the body of the message say...
SUB LABSAFETY-L Your Name

For more information about NACHO, contact Jim Kaufman at the Laboratory
Safety Workshop.

*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education

The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership infromation are available on request.

The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of the Laboratory
safety workshop.

************************************************************************=
******

</PRE></HTML>

--part0_910270425_boundary--
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:13:25 -0500
From: Nick Pinizzotto <Nick.Pinizzotto@MAIL.TJU.EDU>
Subject: Houston reporter
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--openmail-part-039dca56-00000001
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Houston"
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Houston"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hey everyone, My boss just forwarded me this message from the Safety group
list of the Campus Safety Health and Environmental Association(formally the
Campus Safety Association).
Thought some of you would want to contribute!

Nick Pinizzotto
Environmental Health Officer
Dept. Environmental Health & Safety
Thomas Jefferson University
nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu
215-503-5853

--openmail-part-039dca56-00000001
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:56:37 -0500
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Subject: Houston reporter
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: Martha#f#Anderson/internet////////RFC-822/Martha#f#Anderson#a#mail#f#tju#f#edu@hpmail1
From: "Martha Anderson" <Martha.Anderson@mail.tju.edu>
TO: nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu
Content-Type: multipart/Mixed; boundary="openmail-part-039dca56-00000002"

--openmail-part-039dca56-00000002
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Houston"
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Houston.TXT"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Nick, imagine!! This man wants the unwritten chapters of MY book!!
--openmail-part-039dca56-00000002
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:56:53 -0500
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Subject: Houston reporter
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: Martha#f#Anderson/internet////////RFC-822/Martha#f#Anderson#a#mail#f#tju#f#edu@hpmail1
From: James.Morris@CHRON.COM
TO: SAFETY@LIST.UVM.EDU
Content-Type: multipart/Mixed; boundary="openmail-part-039dca56-00000003"

--openmail-part-039dca56-00000003
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Houston.TXT"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

To all health and safety people:

I'm Jim Morris, a special projects reporter with the Houston Chronicle.
I'm researching a piece on laboratory exposures/safety/standards and am
collecting anecdotes from around the country. I'd be interested in
hearing from anyone with a story to tell about a university or
private-industry lab. You can e-mail me, or call me at (713) 220-7948.

Thanks.
--openmail-part-039dca56-00000003--

--openmail-part-039dca56-00000002--

--openmail-part-039dca56-00000001--
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:06:40 -0600
From: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Houston reporter
In-Reply-To: <H000021d01b4e0e0@MHS>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

This is an opportunity to raise some consciousness, but be careful. I've
worked closely with the media for several years, and it's easy to see
something in print that may not be what you intended. There is no such
thing as "off the record." If you're not clear about a question, ask for
clarification. Mistakes are more common than you might believe: confirm
that what you consider important information has been received accurately.
Remember - a reporter's goals probably are not the same as yours.

This isn't an indictment - an intelligent, diligent, ethical reporter (yes,
they do exist, and they're a pleasure to deal with) is a boon to society.
Reporters who do not fit into that select group (they exist in greater
numbers) can make life uncomfortable and make everyone's job more
difficult. I rarely get burned, but I know a lot of people who have.

Have fun - just be careful.

Onward,

JNR

>Hey everyone, My boss just forwarded me this message from the Safety group
>list of the Campus Safety Health and Environmental Association(formally the
>Campus Safety Association).
>Thought some of you would want to contribute!
>
>Nick Pinizzotto
>Environmental Health Officer
>Dept. Environmental Health & Safety
>Thomas Jefferson University
>nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu
>215-503-5853

Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu

"The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise
specified."
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:00:07 -0500
From: Nick Pinizzotto <Nick.Pinizzotto@MAIL.TJU.EDU>
Subject: Houston reporter
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="openmail-part-039e1200-00000001"

--openmail-part-039e1200-00000001
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Houston"
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Houston"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Tammy,
How about now?

I'm sorry, I have my head in a bucket. New house & new baby....need I say
more?

Please comfirm that you recieved the content.

Nick Pinizzotto
Environmental Health Officer
Dept. Environmental Health & Safety
Thomas Jefferson University
nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu
215-503-5853

--openmail-part-039e1200-00000001
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:56:37 -0500
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Subject: Houston reporter
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: Martha#f#Anderson/internet////////RFC-822/Martha#f#Anderson#a#mail#f#tju#f#edu@hpmail1
From: "Martha Anderson" <Martha.Anderson@mail.tju.edu>
TO: nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu
Content-Type: multipart/Mixed; boundary="openmail-part-039e1200-00000002"

--openmail-part-039e1200-00000002
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Houston"
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Houston.TXT"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Nick, imagine!! This man wants the unwritten chapters of MY book!!
--openmail-part-039e1200-00000002
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:56:53 -0500
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Subject: Houston reporter
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: Martha#f#Anderson/internet////////RFC-822/Martha#f#Anderson#a#mail#f#tju#f#edu@hpmail1
From: James.Morris@CHRON.COM
TO: SAFETY@LIST.UVM.EDU
Content-Type: multipart/Mixed; boundary="openmail-part-039e1200-00000003"

--openmail-part-039e1200-00000003
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Houston.TXT"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

To all health and safety people:

I'm Jim Morris, a special projects reporter with the Houston Chronicle.
I'm researching a piece on laboratory exposures/safety/standards and am
collecting anecdotes from around the country. I'd be interested in
hearing from anyone with a story to tell about a university or
private-industry lab. You can e-mail me, or call me at (713) 220-7948.

Thanks.
--openmail-part-039e1200-00000003--

--openmail-part-039e1200-00000002--

--openmail-part-039e1200-00000001--
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:05:21 -0500
From: "Gonzalez, Lisa" <Lisa.Gonzalez@PHARMA.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO Update
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Jim-

Can you copy & paste the entire web address into the email message. I
can't open the attachment, it's getting cut off.

Thanks-
Lisa

-----Original Message-----
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM [SMTP:Labsafe@AOL.COM]
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 7:54 AM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: NACHO Update

Hi NACHO Members,

Our numbers are growing. There's been a recent bust of new
folks joining the
association. Let's all keep finding new members. Be selfish!
The more folks
who join, the larger the brain bank to solve our problems. Can
we reach 1,000
by January 1st? Not without your help. Please post the
membership
announcement (attached) to all the other
lists/newsgroups/bulletin boards/etc.
you can think of.

Work for NACHO? We do have a steering committee. It's composed
of all the
members who would like to work on a project to develop and
improve our
association. Please let me know if you are interested.

Next NACHO meeting! We are planning a public meeting in
conjunction with the
New Safety '99 conference being held the first week in January
at Trinity
College in Hartford, CT. The meeting is likely to be in the
evening from
6-9pm following the CHO Workshop. As the date and location
become clearer, it
will be announced here. Naturally, you know what will be
served.

The ACS meeting in Anaheim, CA in March will be the site of the
next NACHO
meeting. We will repeat the idea of a breakfast which was so
successful in
Boston this past Fall. The NACHO Breakfast will be held from
7-8:30am on the
first Monday of the ACS meeting. It will be in the restaurant
of the same
hotel as the meeting of the Council Committee on Chemical
Safety. The CCCS
meets from 8:30 to Noon.

Last thought. What can we do to improve NACHO? ... jim

*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education

The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit
educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral
and
important part of science education. Free copies of our
Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List,
seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.

The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSI.
Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG

**********************************************************************
<< File: NACHOJ~1 >>
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:31:00 -0500
From: "Tayman, Tammy" <ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US>
Subject: Re: Congrats
Comments: To: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@mail.utexas.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Um, actually, MY baby is seventeen. I think the house/baby in question is
Nick's. Congrats to the proud papa/homeowner! :>

Tammy
----------
From: Jeff Rubin
To: ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US
Subject: Congrats
Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 11:25AM

Tammy,

New baby? Congratulations!

JNR

Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu

"The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise
specified."
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:49:06 -0800
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Houston reporter
In-Reply-To: <H000021d01b4e0e0@MHS>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:13 AM 11/5/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hey everyone, My boss just forwarded me this message from the Safety group
>list of the Campus Safety Health and Environmental Association(formally the
>Campus Safety Association).
>Thought some of you would want to contribute!

>TO: SAFETY@LIST.UVM.EDU
>To all health and safety people:
>
>I'm Jim Morris, a special projects reporter with the Houston Chronicle.
>I'm researching a piece on laboratory exposures/safety/standards and am
>collecting anecdotes from around the country. I'd be interested in
>hearing from anyone with a story to tell about a university or
>private-industry lab. You can e-mail me, or call me at (713) 220-7948.
>
Before anyone gets involved, I would suggest you webout and look at this
gentleman's work for the Houston Chronicle - particularly an article
published on 10/25/98. Go to the Houston Chronicle website (go through the
simple but tedious registration process - no obligation) and search for
"Jim Morris." Interesting.......

Deb.

Debbie Decker
EH&S UCDavis
(530)754-7964
dmdecker@ucdavis.edu
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:06:51 -0500
From: JA Steffens <steffens@CHEM.UFL.EDU>
Organization: UF
Subject: Re: Crash Boom Bang Video
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The video is still available from:
Hazards Productions Inc.
973-729-4161
$495.00
brochure available
ask about preview before you buy
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:45:35 -0800
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Houston Chronicle
Comments: To: NRCC6@aol.com
In-Reply-To: <e91b5a35.3641e427@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:45 PM 11/5/98 EST, you wrote:
>Can you give me the web address for Houston Chronicle?
>Thanks.
>Gilbert Smith
>NRCC
>
www.chron.com

Deb.
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:38:08 -0700
From: Roger Delong <RDelong@PSEDD.COM>
Subject: Re: Crash Boom Bang Video
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Hazards Productions Website is:

http://www.rhr-inc.com/home.htm

> -----Original Message-----
> From: JA Steffens [SMTP:steffens@CHEM.UFL.EDU]
> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 12:07 PM
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: Re: Crash Boom Bang Video
>
> The video is still available from:
> Hazards Productions Inc.
> 973-729-4161
> $495.00
> brochure available
> ask about preview before you buy
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:24:17 -0700
From: "Greene, Ben" <bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV>
Subject: ANSI Z358.1-1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

I recently compared the American National Standard for Emergency Eyewash
and Shower Equipment ANSI Z358.1-1998 revision to the 1990 revision.
For those of you using potable water as a flushing fluid for plumbed
units, what are you doing to ensure that the water is "tepid" as
specified by that standard? This could be a real problem in the colder
environments, for both indoor and outdoor units. Thanks,

Ben Greene, Ph.D
AlliedSignal
Las Cruces, NM 88004
bgreene@wstf.nasa.gov
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:58:57 -0700
From: "Helen B. Gerhard" <hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM>
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

What temperature range is considered tepid? Does the current CFR 29 require
ANSI Z358.1-1998 to be used or do we have a little time before the
regulations catch up with the standards? Does anyone have any ideas of how
this can be accomplished cost effectively?

Thanks!

Helen

-----Original Message-----
From: Greene, Ben [SMTP:bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV]
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 3:24 PM
To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu
Subject: ANSI Z358.1-1998

I recently compared the American National Standard for Emergency
Eyewash
and Shower Equipment ANSI Z358.1-1998 revision to the 1990 revision.
For those of you using potable water as a flushing fluid for plumbed
units, what are you doing to ensure that the water is "tepid" as
specified by that standard? This could be a real problem in the
colder
environments, for both indoor and outdoor units. Thanks,

Ben Greene, Ph.D
AlliedSignal
Las Cruces, NM 88004
bgreene@wstf.nasa.gov
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 20:23:00 EST
From: Marshall Huckaby <RVNLRRP@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO Update
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Since I am in the Atlanta area, any interest in getting a meeting or two down
here?
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:52:07 -0700
From: Teresa Robertson <Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Organization: CSU Bakersfield
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu,.internet writes:
>What temperature range is considered tepid?

Per the Lab Safety Supply Catalog it is 60 to 95 degrees F.

Lab Safety also says in addition to a thermometer to check the water
temp, needed are volume test equipment, a pattern tester to measure the
20" diameter requirement, a flow tester to measure dual stream rinse, a
tape measure to check heights and target area clearance, a watch to
time the testing, and a radio to confirm remote and local alarm.
Teresa Robertson, CSUB CCHO

>Thanks!

>Helen
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 22:51:51 EST
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: NACHO Update
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Hi Lisa,

What is the web address that you are referring to? ... jim
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:17:33 -0500
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

We have installed mixing valves on units to supply tepid water. The trick =
was to go around and set all those valves. Some stations were still cold =
and some were hot. Luckily this was caught in our routine inspection and =
not when they were actually needed. Lack of communication between =
facilities people and safety folks rears its ugly head once again. Good =
luck, Janeen.

*****************
Janeen Lapierre, CHO
College of Osteopathic Medicine
University of New England
11 Hills Beach Road
Biddeford, ME 04005

E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU
Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446
Opinions are mine and not those of UNE.=20

>>> "Greene, Ben" <bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV> - 11/5/98 5:24 PM >>>
I recently compared the American National Standard for Emergency Eyewash
and Shower Equipment ANSI Z358.1-1998 revision to the 1990 revision.
For those of you using potable water as a flushing fluid for plumbed
units, what are you doing to ensure that the water is "tepid" as
specified by that standard? This could be a real problem in the colder
environments, for both indoor and outdoor units. Thanks,

Ben Greene, Ph.D
AlliedSignal
Las Cruces, NM 88004
bgreene@wstf.nasa.gov
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:08:47 -0500
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've been following this discussion with great interest.

Does anyone know if this is a requirement? If so, where is it documented?

Our plant guys know nothing about it. The outside stations are particularly
hard to control, since typically there is no hot water to mix. There is
usually steam, but steam/water mixers are notorious for failing and giving
straight steam. The thought of some poor operator needing an eye wash and
getting a face full of steam is just too horrible to contemplate.

Thanks for your help.

"Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!"

Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
RUETGERS Organics Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu <LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>
Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 9:30
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998

>We have installed mixing valves on units to supply tepid water. The trick
was to go around and set all those valves. Some stations were still cold
and some were hot. Luckily this was caught in our routine inspection and
not when they were actually needed. Lack of communication between
facilities people and safety folks rears its ugly head once again. Good
luck, Janeen.
>
>*****************
>Janeen Lapierre, CHO
>College of Osteopathic Medicine
>University of New England
>11 Hills Beach Road
>Biddeford, ME 04005
>
>E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU
>Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446
>Opinions are mine and not those of UNE.
>
>>>> "Greene, Ben" <bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV> - 11/5/98 5:24 PM >>>
>I recently compared the American National Standard for Emergency Eyewash
>and Shower Equipment ANSI Z358.1-1998 revision to the 1990 revision.
>For those of you using potable water as a flushing fluid for plumbed
>units, what are you doing to ensure that the water is "tepid" as
>specified by that standard? This could be a real problem in the colder
>environments, for both indoor and outdoor units. Thanks,
>
>Ben Greene, Ph.D
>AlliedSignal
>Las Cruces, NM 88004
>bgreene@wstf.nasa.gov
>
>
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:08:50 -0500
From: "Gonzalez, Lisa" <Lisa.Gonzalez@PHARMA.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO Update
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Jim-

Sorry for the confusion. I could not open the attachment for the NACHO
announcement you included on your email yesterday. So..... I asked the
computer dept. to try. They said it was a web address & it was
incomplete, and addressed the email to you requesting the full address.

After I sent you the email, I realized it was an announcement not an
address.

All that said, can you re-send the attachment to me & I'll send it to
the computer dept. and have them open it.

Thanks-
Lisa

-----Original Message-----
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM [SMTP:Labsafe@AOL.COM]
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 10:52 PM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: NACHO Update

Hi Lisa,

What is the web address that you are referring to? ... jim
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:32:18 -0400
From: Don Abramowitz <dabramo1@SWARTHMORE.EDU>
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Does the current CFR 29 require
>ANSI Z358.1-1998 to be used or do we have a little time before the
>regulations catch up with the standards?
>

OSHA is not allowed to write standards that automatically "upgrade" to the
latest ANSI or other consensus standard on which a particular regulation
was based. Something about the Constitution, I suppose.

They have to go through the formal process of rulemaking, with public
notices, cost/risk/benefit analyses, comment periods, possible court
challenges, etc., to change a regulation. This (the court challenge part,
anyway) is why the bulk of the PELs (Permissible Exposure Limits) in
1910.1000 are still based on 1968 (or so) ACGIH TLVs (Threshold Limit
Values).

Don

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don Abramowitz, CIH
Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer

Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081

Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:38:35 -0500
From: "Norman, Randy" <RNorman@BIORELIANCE.COM>
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>OSHA is not allowed to write standards that automatically "upgrade"
to the
>latest ANSI or other consensus standard on which a particular
regulation
>was based.

However note OSHA's propensity to cite failure to follow concensus standards
and guidelines under the "General Duty Clause". Weaker, but still citations.
That said, a colleague has rightly noted that they don't have a case for
enforcing concensus unless there truly IS a concensus. Where "everybody"
chooses to reject parts of an ANSI standard as impractical for example
(e.g., in the opinion of some, mannikin testing of fume hoods per
ANSI/ASHRAE 110), OSHA can't say that you're exercising a lower standard of
care.

I've had "the willy's" about ANSI standards for some time. It's important
that we all work to assure that they truly present what we are prepared to
practice, or we could be backed up against the wall. Government rulemaking
procedures may be slow, but at least they make sure that EVERYBODY gets
ample opportunity to submit their input. I would not say that ANSI
standard-setters hide their activities. But I would suggest that we all need
to take a keener interest them! Am I alone in feeling this unease?

Randy Norman
Safety Specialist Sr.
BioReliance Corporation
Rockville, MD 20850
Rnorman@bioreliance.com <mailto:Rnorman@bioreliance.com>

"Success is a journey, not a destination" - Ben Sweetland

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~
Don Abramowitz, CIH
Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer

Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081

Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:01:00 -0500
From: "Tayman, Tammy" <ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US>
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

No, you are NOT alone in this. And as bad or worse than the OSHA games with
"standards" is the affect on the court system. Since we can get nailed for
not being "prudent and reasonable" in our efforts, whatever THAT means, most
of the time it's the ANSI standards that are brought up in lawsuits, not the
OSHA regs. Since the ANSI standards seem to be "handed down from on high",
I am very concerned about what they are recommending and how it is
recommended to be done.

Tammy Tayman

"My opinions only and anyone else to claims them is obviously reading my
mind!"
----------
From: Norman, Randy
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 12:38PM

<snip>

I've had "the willy's" about ANSI standards for some time. It's important
that we all work to assure that they truly present what we are prepared to
practice, or we could be backed up against the wall. Government rulemaking
procedures may be slow, but at least they make sure that EVERYBODY gets
ample opportunity to submit their input. I would not say that ANSI
standard-setters hide their activities. But I would suggest that we all need
to take a keener interest them! Am I alone in feeling this unease?

Randy Norman
Safety Specialist Sr.
BioReliance Corporation
Rockville, MD 20850
Rnorman@bioreliance.com <mailto:Rnorman@bioreliance.com>

"Success is a journey, not a destination" - Ben Sweetland

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~
Don Abramowitz, CIH
Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer

Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081

Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:46:57 -0500
From: Fran Martin <fmartin@CCSINC.COM>
Subject: New 1998 OSHA Regs on CD-ROM
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

FYI,

Lab and workplace safety officials who prefer CD-ROMs' speed and portability
may find this useful: The new 1998 edition of Title 29 (Labor/OSHA) of the
U.S. Code of Federal Regulations is on CD-ROM, featuring nine complete
volumes (6200 pages) plus the 49 other CFR Titles. PDF format. 5,000
in-line graphics.

See http://www.env-sol.com/solutions/CFR.HTML for more info.

Fran Martin
FM Research & Consulting
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:19:12 EST
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: NACHO Update
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Hi Lisa,

Here's the file in this message. ... jim

The National Association of Chemical Hygiene Officers is a
new professional organization for CHO's. Affiliate membership
is open to anyone interested in CHO/CHP/Lab safety issues.
Membership is free.

Members interested in the discussion of lab safety, CHO/CHP, and
organizational issues will be able to share ideas and information on
the LABSAFETY-L list.

To become a member or affiliate member, subscribe to LABSAFETY-L.

Send a message to LISTSERV@SIU.EDU. In the body of the message say...
SUB LABSAFETY-L Your Name

For more information about NACHO, contact Jim Kaufman at the Laboratory
Safety Workshop.

*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education

The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership infromation are available on request.

The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of the Laboratory
safety workshop.

*****************************************************************************
*
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:06:37 PST
From: damien luviano <luviano@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: toxins
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Hello everyone, do any of you employ the following toxins in your labs:
Alpha-bungarotoxin, tedrotoxin (TTX), Tetraethylammonium (TEA), curare,
botulinum toxin, cholera toxin, or any other neurotoxin. I am trying to
write up a safety-procedure/protocol regarding the handling and use of
these toxins in the lab. (i.e PPE, storing the toxins as a liquid,
antidotes, etc) If you have any procedures, suggestions, or
information regarding any of these toxins, please reply to me DIRECTLY
at
Luviano@hotmail.com

I am particularly interested in Alpha-bungarotoxin and Tedrotoxin.
I thank you in advace for your information

P.S. does any one know the mechanism of toxicity for arsenic acid?

Respectfullly,

Damien Luviano
Luviano@hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:44:01 -0500
From: Naomi Kelly <nkelly@CLEMSON.EDU>
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
In-Reply-To: <003b01be0997$5ac93500$0100007f@BBURNS>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

From what I understand, the defined temperature range (60-95F) that existed
in the previous ANSI Z358 was omitted purposefully to allow some leeway in
determining what should be considered "tepid" for a particular site. The
new ANSI standard defines tepid as moderately warm or lukewarm, . If yours
is an OSHA state, I would recommend checking to see if they have written
enforcement "guidelines" for emergency drench equipment.

At 10:08 AM 11/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I've been following this discussion with great interest.
>
>Does anyone know if this is a requirement? If so, where is it documented?
>
>Our plant guys know nothing about it. The outside stations are particularly
>hard to control, since typically there is no hot water to mix. There is
>usually steam, but steam/water mixers are notorious for failing and giving
>straight steam. The thought of some poor operator needing an eye wash and
>getting a face full of steam is just too horrible to contemplate.
>
>Thanks for your help.
>
>"Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!"
>
>Robert L. Burns
>Group Leader, R&D
>RUETGERS Organics Corporation
>201 Struble Road
>State College, PA 16801
>phone 814-231-9214
>fax 814-238-1567
>email rburns@bigfoot.com
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
>To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu <LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>
>Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 9:30
>Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
>
>
>>We have installed mixing valves on units to supply tepid water. The trick
>was to go around and set all those valves. Some stations were still cold
>and some were hot. Luckily this was caught in our routine inspection and
>not when they were actually needed. Lack of communication between
>facilities people and safety folks rears its ugly head once again. Good
>luck, Janeen.
>>
>>*****************
>>Janeen Lapierre, CHO
>>College of Osteopathic Medicine
>>University of New England
>>11 Hills Beach Road
>>Biddeford, ME 04005
>>
>>E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU
>>Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446
>>Opinions are mine and not those of UNE.
>>
>>>>> "Greene, Ben" <bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV> - 11/5/98 5:24 PM >>>
>>I recently compared the American National Standard for Emergency Eyewash
>>and Shower Equipment ANSI Z358.1-1998 revision to the 1990 revision.
>>For those of you using potable water as a flushing fluid for plumbed
>>units, what are you doing to ensure that the water is "tepid" as
>>specified by that standard? This could be a real problem in the colder
>>environments, for both indoor and outdoor units. Thanks,
>>
>>Ben Greene, Ph.D
>>AlliedSignal
>>Las Cruces, NM 88004
>>bgreene@wstf.nasa.gov
>>
>>
>
>
Naomi Kelly
Environmental Health and Safety
nkelly@clemson.edu
(864) 656 - 7554
Fax: (864) 656 - 7630
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:54:06 -0500
From: Bill Schultz <william_schultz@DETRICK.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: toxin PPE
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

To the person looking for information to set up a protocol and PPE for work
with toxins. I inadvertantly deleted your message before responding.

32 CFR Part 627.17 - Biological Defense Safety Program - Covers Department of
Defense requirements for working with toxins.

This document can be obtained on the Internet @
access.gpo/nara/cfr/cfr-retrieve.html.

Hope this helps. The document is used as a guide for any facility
participating in research for the government Biolgical Defense Program.

William-Schultz@ftdetrck-ccmail.army.mil
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 00:55:08 EST
From: Hal Grunenwald <HALN2SSS@AOL.COM>
Subject: help
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Could someone send me the address for removal from this list. I have changed
positions and am no longer connected with any NACHO functions. Yes I saved the
initial instructions but that was a crash and a reformat ago.
Thanks
Good luck to all
Hal Grunenwald
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:24:34 -0500
From: Wes Kolar <wkolar@PS.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: help
In-Reply-To: <4c45d315.364926bc@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Send the following command:

SIGNOFF LABSAFETY-L

to LISTSERV@SIU.EDU

Wes

At 12:55 AM 11/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Could someone send me the address for removal from this list. I have changed
>positions and am no longer connected with any NACHO functions. Yes I saved
the
>initial instructions but that was a crash and a reformat ago.
>Thanks
>Good luck to all
>Hal Grunenwald
>
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:48:39 -0800
From: Nigel McCarter <n.mccarter@CLEAR.NET.NZ>
Subject: Picric Acid Chloral hydrate and other nasties
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Lab safety
Three questions from New Zealand.
1. Has anyone direct experience of Picric acid? It is explosive when
crystallised - it was used as detanator in torpedoes and other nasties. It
is also used in biological laboratories, being one of the ingredients of
Bouins fluid which is a fixative, and is also used to stain penguin and
albatross feathers (for real)
The acid in one storage bottles at a lab facility has crystalised around
the cap, that is -- the bottle is now explosive.
Just how explosive is crystalline picric acid does it go off with a gentle
pop, or a bloody big bang and blow your hands off. At the moment the
bottle is upside down in water gently soaking in a bucket of water.

2. Second nasty. Chloral Hydrate is used as a wasp poison. We have the
MSDS, again does anyone have direct experience of this poison, any antidote
or anecdotes welcome.

3. Third nasty. Biological samples are frequently stored in 60-70%
ethanol or 50% isopropyl. Has anyone a fire inflammability rating for
these dilutions. It affects how the samples are stored.

Its summer here, the sun is shining

Greetings everyone ....

Nigel

Nigel McCarter
Safety Management and Information Services Ltd
Box 23 019 Hamilton
Phone (64) 7 858 2429 Fax (64) 7 858 2689
Mobile 025 274 8560
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:54:15 -0500
From: Wes Kolar <wkolar@PS.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Picric Acid Chloral hydrate and other nasties
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981112134839.007d2420@pop.clear.net.nz>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Nigel,

Picric acid has an explosive power slightly greater than that
of TNT, so it produces a bloody big bang. Rupture of a single crystal
is probably enough of a shock to set it off. The stuff is also heat
sensitive. Here in the States, dried picric is often taken out into a
field some where, placed in a deep pit, and detonated. Local bomb
squads are usually willing to perform the task.
Haven't worked with chloral hydrate. The reference that I have
says that for ingestion you should make the effected person drink
a slurry of water and activated charcoal.
Both EtOH and iPr have NFPA ratings of 3 for the undiluted
alcohols. Solutions that are 70% or less will probably have an NFPA
rating of 2.

Wes

to At 01:48 PM 11/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi Lab safety
>Three questions from New Zealand.
>1. Has anyone direct experience of Picric acid? It is explosive when
>crystallised - it was used as detanator in torpedoes and other nasties. It
>is also used in biological laboratories, being one of the ingredients of
>Bouins fluid which is a fixative, and is also used to stain penguin and
>albatross feathers (for real)
>The acid in one storage bottles at a lab facility has crystalised around
>the cap, that is -- the bottle is now explosive.
>Just how explosive is crystalline picric acid does it go off with a gentle
>pop, or a bloody big bang and blow your hands off. At the moment the
>bottle is upside down in water gently soaking in a bucket of water.
>
>2. Second nasty. Chloral Hydrate is used as a wasp poison. We have the
>MSDS, again does anyone have direct experience of this poison, any antidote
>or anecdotes welcome.
>
>3. Third nasty. Biological samples are frequently stored in 60-70%
>ethanol or 50% isopropyl. Has anyone a fire inflammability rating for
>these dilutions. It affects how the samples are stored.
>
>
>Its summer here, the sun is shining
>
>Greetings everyone ....
>
>Nigel
>
>Nigel McCarter
>Safety Management and Information Services Ltd
>Box 23 019 Hamilton
>Phone (64) 7 858 2429 Fax (64) 7 858 2689
>Mobile 025 274 8560
>
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:49:47 -0500
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Picric Acid Chloral hydrate and other nasties
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Howdy Nigel.

I have no personal experience with items 1 or 2 on your list but I can give you a little advice on item 3. We have an extensive preserved specimen collection here at the university. Rather than keep things in formalin or alcohol solutions, we use ethylene glycol. Just mix 1 to 5 with water. Alcohols tend to dry specimens out over time as well as evaporate quite fast. Note, ethylene glycol is not a fixative. Specimens must be fixed in formalin prior to storage in ethylene glycol.

Here in Maine, we are in late fall and expecting snow flurries this week end.
For what its worth, Janeen.

*****************
Janeen Lapierre, CHO
College of Osteopathic Medicine
University of New England
11 Hills Beach Road
Biddeford, ME 04005

E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU
Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446
Opinions are mine and not those of UNE.

>>> Nigel McCarter <n.mccarter@CLEAR.NET.NZ> - 11/12/98 4:48 PM >>>
Hi Lab safety
Three questions from New Zealand.
1. Has anyone direct experience of Picric acid? It is explosive when
crystallised - it was used as detanator in torpedoes and other nasties. It
is also used in biological laboratories, being one of the ingredients of
Bouins fluid which is a fixative, and is also used to stain penguin and
albatross feathers (for real)
The acid in one storage bottles at a lab facility has crystalised around
the cap, that is -- the bottle is now explosive.
Just how explosive is crystalline picric acid does it go off with a gentle
pop, or a bloody big bang and blow your hands off. At the moment the
bottle is upside down in water gently soaking in a bucket of water.

2. Second nasty. Chloral Hydrate is used as a wasp poison. We have the
MSDS, again does anyone have direct experience of this poison, any antidote
or anecdotes welcome.

3. Third nasty. Biological samples are frequently stored in 60-70%
ethanol or 50% isopropyl. Has anyone a fire inflammability rating for
these dilutions. It affects how the samples are stored.

Its summer here, the sun is shining

Greetings everyone ....

Nigel

Nigel McCarter
Safety Management and Information Services Ltd
Box 23 019 Hamilton
Phone (64) 7 858 2429 Fax (64) 7 858 2689
Mobile 025 274 8560
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:15:09 -0500
From: Dave Gelpke <dgelpke@CANBERRA.COM>
Subject: Lab Safety Seminar
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I remember reading about a lab safety seminar/workshop being held at
Trinity College in Hartford CT during the month of January. Is that true
and who would be a contact for that?
Thanks
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:09:15 -0500
From: "Norman, Randy" <RNorman@BIORELIANCE.COM>
Subject: Re: Picric Acid Chloral hydrate and other nasties
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Re; Item #1 Wes has it right. Very scary stuff, but you've done right so
far. Some folks have done this (immersion in water for a few days then
carefully open under water. But I would call either the Fire Marshall's
office (for the bomb squad) or your hazardous waste contractor for advice
and/or assistance.

Item 2: Chloral Hydrate is the infamous "Mickey Finn" as in "slip someone a
Mickey" from the old movies. In the States it's a "controlled substance"
like many other drugs with abuse potential. It's often used to sedate
children. My daughter was knocked out with it at 18 months so they could do
a CAT scan. Too much can certainly kill. I believe we call it a "hypnotic"
here in the states.

Item 3:
60% Ethyl alcohol has a flash point of about 72 F (22 C)
70% Ethyl alcohol's is about 70 F (21 C)

You'd have to check local regulations to see what they class that as.

For 70% Isopropyl alcohol I don't have a flash point, but the pure
Isopropyl flashes at 53 F (12 C). That's approx. 3 F (2 C) below that of
pure Ethyl alcohol, so I'd expect that at 70% its flash point would be
comparable for that described above for 70% Ethyl, or maybe a little bit
lower.

I got the flashpoint info. from NFPA 325M 1977 (yes really old) "Fire Hazard
Properties of Flammable Liquids, Gases, Volatile Solids"

Hope that helps!

Randy Norman
Safety Specialist Sr.
BioReliance Corporation
Rockville, MD 20850
Rnorman@bioreliance.com <mailto:Rnorman@bioreliance.com>

"Success is a journey, not a destination" - Ben Sweetland

to At 01:48 PM 11/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi Lab safety
>Three questions from New Zealand.
>1. Has anyone direct experience of Picric acid? It is explosive
when
>crystallised - it was used as detanator in torpedoes and other
nasties. It
>is also used in biological laboratories, being one of the
ingredients of
>Bouins fluid which is a fixative, and is also used to stain penguin
and
>albatross feathers (for real)
>The acid in one storage bottles at a lab facility has crystalised
around
>the cap, that is -- the bottle is now explosive.
>Just how explosive is crystalline picric acid does it go off with a
gentle
>pop, or a bloody big bang and blow your hands off. At the moment
the
>bottle is upside down in water gently soaking in a bucket of water.
>
>2. Second nasty. Chloral Hydrate is used as a wasp poison. We
have the
>MSDS, again does anyone have direct experience of this poison, any
antidote
>or anecdotes welcome.
>
>3. Third nasty. Biological samples are frequently stored in
60-70%
>ethanol or 50% isopropyl. Has anyone a fire inflammability rating
for
>these dilutions. It affects how the samples are stored.
>
>
>Its summer here, the sun is shining
>
>Greetings everyone ....
>
>Nigel
>
>Nigel McCarter
>Safety Management and Information Services Ltd
>Box 23 019 Hamilton
>Phone (64) 7 858 2429 Fax (64) 7 858 2689
>Mobile 025 274 8560
>
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:59:06 -0800
From: Ray Campbell <ray.campbell@SPP.VARIAN.COM>
Subject: Re: Picric Acid Chloral hydrate and other nasties
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981112134839.007d2420@pop.clear.net.nz>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I have had experience with Picric Acid in crystalline form. It will go off
with a bloody big bang and blow your hand off. It is very shock sensitive
in this state. I recommend that you call the bomb squad. I saw a gallon
blown up by my local bomb squad years ago. It is not a pop!!!

Ray Campbell REA CCHO
310-257-1080

PS It is always summer here in southern cal and the sun is shining

At 01:48 PM 11/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi Lab safety
>Three questions from New Zealand.
>1. Has anyone direct experience of Picric acid? It is explosive when
>crystallised - it was used as detanator in torpedoes and other nasties. It
>is also used in biological laboratories, being one of the ingredients of
>Bouins fluid which is a fixative, and is also used to stain penguin and
>albatross feathers (for real)
>The acid in one storage bottles at a lab facility has crystalised around
>the cap, that is -- the bottle is now explosive.
>Just how explosive is crystalline picric acid does it go off with a gentle
>pop, or a bloody big bang and blow your hands off. At the moment the
>bottle is upside down in water gently soaking in a bucket of water.
>
>2. Second nasty. Chloral Hydrate is used as a wasp poison. We have the
>MSDS, again does anyone have direct experience of this poison, any antidote
>or anecdotes welcome.
>
>3. Third nasty. Biological samples are frequently stored in 60-70%
>ethanol or 50% isopropyl. Has anyone a fire inflammability rating for
>these dilutions. It affects how the samples are stored.
>
>
>Its summer here, the sun is shining
>
>Greetings everyone ....
>
>Nigel
>
>Nigel McCarter
>Safety Management and Information Services Ltd
>Box 23 019 Hamilton
>Phone (64) 7 858 2429 Fax (64) 7 858 2689
>Mobile 025 274 8560
>
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:55:48 -0500
From: Dewey Williams <williams@EMAIL.UNCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Picric Acid Chloral hydrate and other nasties
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981112134839.007d2420@pop.clear.net.nz>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi Lab safety
>Three questions from New Zealand.
>1. Has anyone direct experience of Picric acid? It is explosive when
>crystallised - it was used as detanator in torpedoes and other nasties. It
>is also used in biological laboratories, being one of the ingredients of
>Bouins fluid which is a fixative, and is also used to stain penguin and
>albatross feathers (for real)
>The acid in one storage bottles at a lab facility has crystalised around
>the cap, that is -- the bottle is now explosive.
>Just how explosive is crystalline picric acid does it go off with a gentle
>pop, or a bloody big bang and blow your hands off. At the moment the
>bottle is upside down in water gently soaking in a bucket of water.
>

The key to explosive picric acid is that it must be dry...very dry.

We store all our picric acid in water. I check the bottles about twice a
year to make certain they are still wet. I have found only one bottle that
I thought was sufficently dry to be a problem. The bomb squad was happy to
retrieve it as a training session. From my report, the material did not
explode when the the bomb squad shocked it.
Dewey Williams - Lab Manager
mailto:williams@email.uncc.edu
UNC-Charlotte Chemistry Dept. http://www.chem.uncc.edu
"These are my ideas and no one else will claim them."
"If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate"
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:25:30 -0500
From: Dave Gelpke <dgelpke@CANBERRA.COM>
Subject: Lab Safety Seminar
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Thanks to all for the speedy response regarding the lab safety
seminar/workshop being held at Trinity College in Hartford.
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:28:39 +0000
Comments: Authenticated sender is <hermanc@mail.cameron.edu>
From: Herman curtis <hermanc@CAMERON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Picric Acid Chloral hydrate and other nasties
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Ray Campbell wrote in reference to picric acid:

> It is very shock sensitive in this state.

Not justin California; in the other 49 states as well.
Herman Curtis
Department of Physical Science
Cameron University
2800 W Gore Blvd
Lawton, OK 73505
hermanc@cameron.edu (580)591-8007 ,(580)581-2323
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:31:48 -0600
From: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chloral hydrate
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981112134839.007d2420@pop.clear.net.nz>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

We had a fairly extensive discussion on picric acid late last March; it
should be in the archives.

Chloral hydrate is indeed used as a pedi sedative. My wife is a pedi ICU
nurse and she uses it on aregular basis (on her patients, that is),
especially before they want the kiddies to be out for an extended period.
Some EMS providers use it in the field, but it's generally an in-hopital
med. It's been used (or at least kept) in our labs at UT; most common
current use is as part of a sample prep process (it's used in a clearing
agent). For what it's worth, chloral hydrate is a Schedule IV DEA
controlled substance (potential for abuse but not particularly
habit-forming). I'm not sure about this, but I think it has been used in
some pesticide manufacturing - either that or it was a by-product of same.

Typical therapeutic dose is 250-500 mg/kg for kids, more for adults;
estimated lethal dose (oral) for humans is 5-10 g. It's both a contact
irritant (inhaled, ingested, absorbed) and (in case you hadn't guessed) is
a CNS depressant. No specfic antidote - try to adsorb with activated
charcoal and treat symptoms (especially respiratory suppression).

I have more info if anyone needs it, but most of it is for clinical use.

JNR

Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu

"The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise
specified."
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:11:07 -0800
From: Neal Langerman <chemsaf@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: New Web Page Appearance
Comments: To: hs-canada@ccohs.ca, SAFETY@LIST.UVM.EDU
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dear Friends -

Advanced Chemical Safety has updated its Web Page with a new crisp look and
new links. Please stop by and visit. We will be publishing our 1999
Program schedule shortly and will announce that so you can schedule programs
which meet your needs.

Neal
*************************************************************
NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com
ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY
8909 Complex Drive
San Diego CA 92123-1418

619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX)
619 990 4908 (cellular)

visit our homepage: http://www.chemical-safety.com

*************************************************************
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:04:32 -0600
From: Michael Garoutte <Garoutte-M@MAIL.MSSC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chloral hydrate
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

--
Michael Garoutte, Ph.D. garoutte-m@mail.mssc.edu
Asst. Prof. of Chemistry, Missouri Southern State College
3950 East Newman Road, Joplin, MO 64801-1595
Phone: 417-625-9579 Fax: 417-625-3169
http://www.mssc.edu/physci/chemistry

>>> Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU> 11/12/98 12:31PM >>>
Typical therapeutic dose is 250-500 mg/kg for kids, more for adults;
estimated lethal dose (oral) for humans is 5-10 g.

Am I reading this correctly? This would mean for a 40kg child the dose would be:

(500 mg/kg)(40 kg)=20000 mg = 20 g! That seems like a tough pill to swallow (pun intended).
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:33:21 -0600
From: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chloral hydrate
In-Reply-To: <s64b1646.055@mail.mssc.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Correct! Serves me right for trying to abbreviate the information - I
mixed units. A typical therpeutic dose is generally 25-50 mg/kg, depending
on route and purpose, with total doses in the 200-500 mg range; 500 mg is
the max dose for most uses (as well as the typical adult dose).

I guess the 20 g dose is for someone who REALLY needs sedation...

Thanks for reading and catching it.

JNR

>--
>Michael Garoutte, Ph.D. garoutte-m@mail.mssc.edu
>Asst. Prof. of Chemistry, Missouri Southern State College
>3950 East Newman Road, Joplin, MO 64801-1595
>Phone: 417-625-9579 Fax: 417-625-3169
>http://www.mssc.edu/physci/chemistry
>
>>>> Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU> 11/12/98 12:31PM >>>
>Typical therapeutic dose is 250-500 mg/kg for kids, more for adults;
>estimated lethal dose (oral) for humans is 5-10 g.
>
>Am I reading this correctly? This would mean for a 40kg child the dose
>would be:
>
>(500 mg/kg)(40 kg)=20000 mg = 20 g! That seems like a tough pill to
>swallow (pun intended).

Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu

"The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise
specified."
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:58:53 EST
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Seminar
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

This is the right place to find out about it. LSI will offer one of its one-
day lab safety seminars at the conference. The final day has not been set
yet. Stayed tuned. ... jim
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 01:07:39 -0500
From: Mary Ann Solstad <msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET>
Subject: Re: Chloral hydrate
In-Reply-To: <v0311070fb2711f75ab48@[128.83.215.83]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

This discussion on chloral hydrate, which someone pointed out was the
active ingredient in Mickey Finns (ref. old movies and detective stories),
reminded me of some 40 yrs ago and my broken leg. It had been royally
smashed skiing. No way could I rest for the pain, and later the itching
under the cast. Dr. Rx-ed chloral hydrate. No way could I disguise the
awful taste of that stuff, and we tried some innovative liquids, including
V-8. When I did get it down, it didn't help me sleep anyhow. Never
figured out how they could slip someone a Mickey. Just remembering.

Mary Ann

At 05:33 PM 11/12/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Correct! Serves me right for trying to abbreviate the information - I
>mixed units. A typical therpeutic dose is generally 25-50 mg/kg, depending
>on route and purpose, with total doses in the 200-500 mg range; 500 mg is
>the max dose for most uses (as well as the typical adult dose).
>
>I guess the 20 g dose is for someone who REALLY needs sedation...
>

>>Michael Garoutte, Ph.D. garoutte-m@mail.mssc.edu
>>Asst. Prof. of Chemistry, Missouri Southern State College
>>3950 East Newman Road, Joplin, MO 64801-1595
>>Phone: 417-625-9579 Fax: 417-625-3169
>>http://www.mssc.edu/physci/chemistry
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:18:32 -0800
From: Nick Spare <NJSpare@PILOTCHEMICAL.COM>
Subject: Re: Chloral hydrate
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Another Chloral Hydrate Anecdote

Last year, my wife and I took our then 18 month old to England to visit his
great-grandmother. We were apprehensive about how the energetic little lad
would take to an 11 hour non-stop overnight flight from LA to London. His
pediatrician (much to my surprise) prescribed chloral hydrate as a sedative.
She suggested that we try a dose out at home prior to the flight as in ~ 1%
of cases CH has an opposite effect to that desired. We did this trial and
he slept like a rock for 10 hours. Therefore around one hour into the
flight we dosed him up and waited for him to drop off.. and waited...and
waited...and waited. He eventually slept for around 2 hours while the rest
of the time he behaved rather like a wide-awake, happy drunk!!!!! Beware
chloral hydrate.

One other item in passing, Jeff Rubin mentioned that CH is used in pesticide
manufacture. Actually non-hydrated chloral is used as a feedstock in the
preparation of dichlorvos or DDVP.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mary Ann Solstad <msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET>
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: Chloral hydrate

>This discussion on chloral hydrate, which someone pointed out was the
>active ingredient in Mickey Finns (ref. old movies and detective stories),
>reminded me of some 40 yrs ago and my broken leg. It had been royally
>smashed skiing. No way could I rest for the pain, and later the itching
>under the cast. Dr. Rx-ed chloral hydrate. No way could I disguise the
>awful taste of that stuff, and we tried some innovative liquids, including
>V-8. When I did get it down, it didn't help me sleep anyhow. Never
>figured out how they could slip someone a Mickey. Just remembering.
>
>Mary Ann
>
>At 05:33 PM 11/12/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>Correct! Serves me right for trying to abbreviate the information - I
>>mixed units. A typical therpeutic dose is generally 25-50 mg/kg,
depending
>>on route and purpose, with total doses in the 200-500 mg range; 500 mg is
>>the max dose for most uses (as well as the typical adult dose).
>>
>>I guess the 20 g dose is for someone who REALLY needs sedation...
>>
>
>>>Michael Garoutte, Ph.D. garoutte-m@mail.mssc.edu
>>>Asst. Prof. of Chemistry, Missouri Southern State College
>>>3950 East Newman Road, Joplin, MO 64801-1595
>>>Phone: 417-625-9579 Fax: 417-625-3169
>>>http://www.mssc.edu/physci/chemistry
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:24:21 -0500
From: Julie O'Brien <afn35210@AFN.ORG>
Subject: Peroxidizable Chemicals
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Can anyone explain to me, chemically, what is the mechanism for forming
peroxides in sodium or lithium amide? I have lithium diethylamide in stock
& am wondering if it could readily form peroxides as well. I've checked
Bretherick's Handbook of Reactive Chemical Hazards for lithium diethylamide;
it only stated that the compound is pyrophoric. I also read the MSDS, which
did not mention possible peroxide formation. Thanks in advance for your help.

Julie O'Brien
Chemist
PCR, Inc.
PO Box 1466
Gainesville, FL 32602
352-376-8246 ext. 232
Fax 352-373-7503
afn35210@afn.org

Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer
EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville
PO Box 5951
Gainesville, FL 32627
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:17:12 -0800
From: Michael Ahler
<Ahler_Michael_D/cpslo_employee1@POLYMAIL.CPUNIX.CALPOLY.EDU>
Subject: Chloral Hydrate Stories
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Chloral"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear Readers,

So, you want to know what else chloral hydrate can be used for?
The discussion reminds me of the experiment performed here once upon a
time in our Agricultural Chemicals course. Once a year a couple dozen
students would each make a small batch of several products of
agricultural significance - usually a pesticide - in the course of a 10
week quarter. It was quite a sight to see 24 stoppered erlenmyer
flasks being shaken in unison ( one per student) while the ingredients,
chloral hydrate and I don't remember what else, were reacting to form
DDT. It was a half-hour shaking period, so the students used to
wander up and down the hallway passing the time in idle conversation
while shaking.

Somebody smack me, please, if I begin to sound wistful about the Good
Old Days.

Thanks. I needed that.

Michael Ahler, CHO
Risk Management
Cal Poly
San Luis Obispo, California
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:13:11 -0500
From: Wes Kolar <wkolar@PS.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Peroxidizable Chemicals
In-Reply-To: <199811131624.LAA12915@freenet5.afn.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

According to an article entitled; "Review of Safety Guidelines for
Peroxidizable
Organic Chemicals" (R. J. Kelly, Chemical Health and Safety, Sept/Oct,
1996, pp. 28-36), formation of peroxides is by a free radical mechanism
involving oxygen by autoxidation. The reference that Kelly cites is;
Davies, A. G., J. Roy. Inst. Chem., 1956, 80, 386-389.
The Kelly article goes into fair depth on the chemistry of peroxide
formation. Hope this helps.

Wes Kolar
UGA Environmental Safety Services

At 11:24 AM 11/13/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Can anyone explain to me, chemically, what is the mechanism for forming
>peroxides in sodium or lithium amide? I have lithium diethylamide in stock
>& am wondering if it could readily form peroxides as well. I've checked
>Bretherick's Handbook of Reactive Chemical Hazards for lithium diethylamide;
>it only stated that the compound is pyrophoric. I also read the MSDS, which
>did not mention possible peroxide formation. Thanks in advance for your
help.
>
>Julie O'Brien
>Chemist
>PCR, Inc.
>PO Box 1466
>Gainesville, FL 32602
>352-376-8246 ext. 232
>Fax 352-373-7503
>afn35210@afn.org
>
>Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer
>EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville
>PO Box 5951
>Gainesville, FL 32627
>
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:52:20 -0600
From: Erik Talley <erik@CEHS.SIU.EDU>
Subject: Director Position Open (SIUC)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

The Southern Illinois University Carbondale Center for Environmental
Health and Safety is in the process of hiring a new director.

Information about the position can be found at the following link or
attached.

http://www.siu.edu/~affact/ap.html

AD-13 Director of Environmental Health and Safety, effective as soon as
possible, Vice Chancellor for Administration, by 12/1/98, contact James
Tweedy. Salary: $3,952 - $5,928; $4,940 midpoint.
DIRECTOR OF ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

Southern Illinois University at Carbondale,
Carbondale, Illinois, invites applications for the position of Director
of Environmental Health and Safety.

The Director will report to the Vice Chancellor
for Administration and will have primary responsibility for coordinating
all activities associated with the environmental, health and safety
regulatory compliance for Southern Illinois University at Carbondale.
The Director will supervise the following unit and have experience in:
Radiological Safety, Biological Safety, Occupational Health & Safety,
Chemical Safety, Hazardous Waste Management and Environmental
Compliance.

Qualifications: Master's degree with minimum of
five years experience as a compliance officer in a biological,
radiological or human safety related field OR a baccalaureate degree
with a minimum of ten years experience in one of the same areas
mentioned above.

This is a security sensitive position. Before
any offer of employment is made, the University will conduct a
pre-employment background investigation which includes a criminal
background check.

To apply: send letter of application and
application by December 1, 1998, to:

Dr. James Tweedy
Vice Chancellor for Administration
Southern Illinois University at
Carbondale
Room 214 Anthony Hall
Carbondale, Illinois 62901

Southern Illinois University is an Equal
Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer

____________________________________
Erik Talley, Assistant Director
Center for Environmental Health and Safety
Southern Illinois University
erik@cehs.siu.edu
==============================================================
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 17:42:20 EST
From: Brian Wazlaw <BriWazlaw@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Seminar
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Jim,

I am applying for a sabbatical leave 99 -00 for lab safety and a CHP.
I received you E - Mail and a list of your workshops. You indicated I could
spend time at your facility reviewing info that you have. I appreciate the
offer. I would like to talk to you sometime during the next week to obtain
any ideas on how I might focus my sabbatical (course work, mini internships,
literature reviews, etc. ).

Thanks for your help,
Brian Wazlaw
Exeter High School
Exeter, NH 03833
603 778-7772
==============================================================
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 19:26:50 EST
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Seminar
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Hi Brian,

Please give me a call when it's convenient for you. I'll be in the office on
Monday untill about 3pm (1-800-647-1977). Then I'm going to Connecticut for a
few days and Alabama at the end of the week.

My home number is 1-800-484-1005 x4857. We're up till 10pm if you would
prefer to call in the evening.

I look forward to talking with you. ... jim
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 08:07:32 -0500
From: "Wight, Hugh" <HWight@AQUILABIO.COM>
Subject: Centrifuge rotors
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Does anyone know whether "biocontained" centrifuge rotors effectively
contain bacterial aerosols?

Hugh Wight
Aquila Biopharmaceuticals, Inc.
Framingham, MA
(508) 766-2733
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:32:26 +0800
From: Martin Lindsay <clarke@WEB.NET.AU>
Subject: Two way Radio Safety
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Does anybody have any information on potential health risks associated with
the wearing and use of two way radio transceivers in the workplace?

Are there any short or long term risks from radio frequency emissions?

Martin
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 08:54:30 -0600
From: Martin Gromnicki <GROMNICKIM@ACAD.RIPON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two way Radio Safety
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:32:26 +0800"
<3.0.5.32.19981116223226.007d0a20@web.net.au>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

I would wonder if the unit was wireless it may make emissions a
factor. Maybe need further clarificaiton.
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:30:41 -0600
From: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two way Radio Safety
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981116223226.007d0a20@web.net.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I have yet to see a study that definitively links RF emissions from
hand-held communications equipment with cancer. A recent review article in
Environmental Health Perspectives Supplements (M. H. Repacholi, v.
105,Supplement 6, p. 1565-1568, 12/97) points this out, discussing the
difficulties encountered so far in demonstrating/ruling out a link between
exposure and cancer. He mentions a UK government study that found no link,
and refers to an international EMF project exploring non-ionizing radiation.

There's a NIH project, EMFrapid, that looks at residential fields, but it's
mostly related to power generation and transmission. NIH/NIEHS publishes
Environmental Health Perspectives as well. The project home page is:
http://www.niehs.nih.gov/emfrapid/home.htm

National Research Council published (via National Academy Press, publishers
of Prudent Practices) a study on potential health effects of residential
electric and magnetic fields. I'll bet LSI has it as well. Good
analytical (as opposed to most of what's out there - i.e, anecdotal) review
but doesn'ty specifically deal with RF from handheld communications.

Hope this helps.

JNR

>Does anybody have any information on potential health risks associated with
>the wearing and use of two way radio transceivers in the workplace?
>
>Are there any short or long term risks from radio frequency emissions?
>
>Martin

Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu

"The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise
specified."
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:41:52 -0600
From: "Frank H. Lankewicz" <flankewi@SEWANEE.EDU>
Subject: B'ham, AL Lab Safety Workshop/Conference
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I lost the information to the Lab Safety Conference in B'ham, AL.
on Nov.19, please post the information for me.(Registration, etc.)

______________________________

Frank H. Lankewicz
EHS Director/Chemical Hygiene Officer
The University of the South
735 University Avenue
Sewanee, TN 37383-1000

Ph: 931/598-1916
Fax: 931/598-1745
email: flankewi@sewanee.edu
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:23:00 -0600
From: David Zoromski <ZOROMDW@CAHL.DATCP.STATE.WI.US>
Subject: Re: Two Way Radio Safety
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Portable two way radios (not CB) operated in the VHF-UHF
frequency ranges have a minor possibility of slight thermal
hazard if used extensively for transmitting. Emissions are
perpendicular to the long axis of the antenna in all directions.
There is no hazard when receiving, scanning or monitoring.
Portable radios with attached antennas are limited to 7 watts
maximum output by law, I believe. Most units sold operate at a
maximum of 5 watts. Mobile and base units with remote antennas
usually are not a problem, if the antenna is installed correctly.

The American Radio Relay League (ARRL) and the FCC recommends
transmissions be kept short and the antenna held away from the
head as much as possible. The eyes are the most susceptible to
harm from overexposure to these frequencies. For full
information on safety of radiofrequency emissions check out the
ARRL website at WWW.ARRL.ORG and search using SAFETY as the
keyword. This will give you more than you ever wanted to know.
This is an excellent resource.

Bottom line: two-way portable radios are essentially safe when
used as intended.

Dave Zoromski
zoromdw@cahl.datcp.state.wi.us

Send flames to: zoromski@compuserve.com
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:11:22 -0500
From: David Michael Coons <coonsdm@MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two way Radio Safety
In-Reply-To: <v03110700b275f0f82463@[128.83.215.83]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="============_-1300886203==_ma============"

--============_-1300886203==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

A few years ago while working as an IH-type in upstate NY, I had a rep
from the state's safety division respond to a university police officer's
suggestion that using his two-way radio increased his chances of getting
cancer of the brain. The mobile unit in the squad car was evaluated as
well. In short, the colorful report from the state stated that the officer
would have to sit on top of his car and straddle the antenna while
transmitting for an extended period before he would experience
deleterious effects from his radio use. Apparently this was the state
reps attempt at expressing relative dose and did satisfy the police
officer.

The following is a posting I located on the internet. Most research
and discussion involves wireless communication regarding cellular
telephones.

As noted below, for more info on this and related subjects, go to
http://www.microwavenews.com.

Mike Coons
*******************

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:42:26 -0600
Sender: telecomreg@relay.doit.wisc.edu
From: "Ritter, Gary T"
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: Biological effects of radio-frequency emissions

The following is offered on behalf of a colleague who isn't a member of
this listserv, but who is interested in the biological effects of
radio-frequency emissions. Thus, any response should be directed to her
at brecher@volpe1.dot.gov.

There are a number of publications focusing on biological effects and
indirectly, on potentially adverse health effects of electromagnetic
radiation (EMR) and fields (EMF), broad band. You can go to the home
page of Microwave News (MWN): www.microwavenews.com, and get selected
reprints on request (e-mail to mwn@pobox.com). You can also go to the
emf-link site maintained by Information Ventures, Inc. ( see
http://www.infoventures.com), or e-mail to EMF-Link@infoventures.com to
subscribe to the EMF health Report.)

There are some recent research results specific to exposures to
cellullar phone frequencies (around 900 MHz) and to higher microwave
frequencies (e.g., 2.45 GHz) used in PCS devices and point point to
communications that are disquieting:

1. For instance, Dr. Lai and Singh at the Univ. Of Washington, Seattle
found DNA strand breaks in rats brain cells after acute exposures to
low-level 2.45 GHz radiation (2 hours exposures, at .6 and 1.2 W/kg SAR,
a measure of absorbed energy below current ANSI/IEEE public exposure
standards). Similar single and double strand breaks in brain cells DNA
were found with ELF/EMF (60 Hz power frequencies magnetic fields of .1,
1, 2.5 and 5 gauss. Last summer, an Australian study by Repacholi et al.
reported doubling of lymphomas in transgenic mice exposed for 18
months to pulse-modulated 900 MHz RF fields analogous to digital cellular
phone signals.

2. Refined dose modeling of Specific Absorbption Ratios (SAR) within the
head and organs (by Stuchly et al., and Om Gandhi et al, and by the
Swiss) for various types of cellular phones antenna designs and
orientations have shown that localized absorption within the eye or the
brain could exceed by factors of 3 or more the current safety limits (for
which, admittedly there was little physical or biological basis to begin
with), and cause localized energy deposition, heating and maybe other
bio-effects., like the genotoxicity claimed by Lai and Singh.

3. Finally, the Wireless Technology Research (WTR) program
(see:http://www.WTRLLC.com), funded by the CTIA (Cellular Telephone
Industry Association) has identified types of phones (mostly digital,
European models like GSM) that can cause electromagnetic interference
(EMI) with implanted pacemakers, with non-lethal but potentially damaging
effects. The Nov/Dec 97 issue of MWN reports on this partially successful
research program, prompted by Congressional and public concerns that
there were no direct data on the EMR bio-effects at cellular phones
frequencies. It also contains a useful summary of a recent Swiss (Dr.
Niels Kuster of ETH) study of the radiation absorbed by (a fiberglass
model of ) the human head by a broad range of digital GSM 900 Mhz, .25
Watts pulsed cellular phones.

A lot of studies are yet to be completed and ANSI/IEEE Standards
Committee 28 has been considering changes in its 1991 exposure safety
standards C95.1.
*******************
From: telecomreg[SMTP:telecomreg@relay.doit.wisc.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 12:21 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: Biological effects of radio-frequency emissions

The studies for the health effects associated with electromagnetic radiation
(EMR) have been debated for over 20 years. although there may now be
new studies, the studies have been on-going. some lead one way, some
the other, but none have been definitive. one thing has occurred over this
period. the ansi committee responsible for establishing "voluntary"
standards -- the standards that have been adopted by the FCC with regard
to devices regulated by the Commission -- have twice been made more
restrictive. the guidelines have been strengthened not because of any
smoking gun, but because of additional caution and questions in the
scientific community.

the last standard, adopted about five years ago, is based upon whole body
radiation measurements rather than radiation directed at any particular part
of the body. this is very reasonable when a person stands in the far field of
a EMR field (e.g., someone standing some distance away from a radar or
satellite transmitting antenna). In that case, the energy uniformly passes
through the body and whole body radiation measurements make sense.
However, it is not as clear that whole body radiation measurement standards
make sense when a person is particularly close to the transmitter (so that the
field is nonuniform) or where the energy field is particularly more intense
over or is directed towards one part of the body. When a person uses a
device like a cellular telephone most of the energy is directed toward the
head and eyes. However, to determine compliance with the standard, the
energy directed at the head is averaged over the entire body. Many of the
studies made in the past have examined the effect of EMR on the blood
brain barrier. while i do not have the expertise to evaluate these studies (I
am only an attorney and engineer) -- and i do not believe that they have
determined a sustained response to the EMR effect -- it does not seem to
make sense to ignore the localized impact of of the energy. any further
studies should consider this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Readers of this list who are particularly close followers of the debate
about health effects of cellular phones or other electrical fields might
want to pick up a recent issue of the ACM publication, Wireless
Network (Vol. 3, No. 6, Nov. 1997). It contains some detailed
technical articles on various experiments and models examining this
question. You won't find either smoking guns or blanket denials in
these articles. It looks like the field is at an early point, still trying to
decide how to devise experiments or models that accurately represent
real-life use of cellular phones and related devices.
--============_-1300886203==_ma============
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

<fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>A few years ago while working as an
IH-type in upstate NY, I had a rep

from the state's safety division respond to a university police
officer's

suggestion that using his two-way radio increased his chances of
getting

cancer of the brain. The mobile unit in the squad car was evaluated
as

well. In short, the colorful report from the state stated that the
officer

would have to sit on top of his car and straddle the antenna while

transmitting for an extended period before he would experience

deleterious effects from his radio use. Apparently this was the state

reps attempt at expressing relative dose and did satisfy the police

officer.

The following is a posting I located on the internet. Most research

and discussion involves wireless communication regarding cellular

telephones.

As noted below, for more info on this and related subjects, go to

http://www.microwavenews.com.

Mike Coons

*******************

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:42:26 -0600

Sender: telecomreg@relay.doit.wisc.edu

From: "Ritter, Gary T"

To: Multiple recipients of list

Subject: Re: Biological effects of radio-frequency emissions

The following is offered on behalf of a colleague who isn't a member of

this listserv, but who is interested in the biological effects of

radio-frequency emissions. Thus, any response should be directed to her

at brecher@volpe1.dot.gov.

There are a number of publications focusing on biological effects and

indirectly, on potentially adverse health effects of electromagnetic

radiation (EMR) and fields (EMF), broad band. You can go to the home

page of Microwave News (MWN): www.microwavenews.com, and get selected

reprints on request (e-mail to mwn@pobox.com). You can also go to the

emf-link site maintained by Information Ventures, Inc. ( see

http://www.infoventures.com), or e-mail to EMF-Link@infoventures.com to

subscribe to the EMF health Report.)

There are some recent research results specific to exposures to

cellullar phone frequencies (around 900 MHz) and to higher microwave

frequencies (e.g., 2.45 GHz) used in PCS devices and point point to

communications that are disquieting:

1. For instance, Dr. Lai and Singh at the Univ. Of Washington, Seattle

found DNA strand breaks in rats brain cells after acute exposures to

low-level 2.45 GHz radiation (2 hours exposures, at .6 and 1.2 W/kg
SAR,

a measure of absorbed energy below current ANSI/IEEE public exposure

standards). Similar single and double strand breaks in brain cells DNA

were found with ELF/EMF (60 Hz power frequencies magnetic fields of .1,

1, 2.5 and 5 gauss. Last summer, an Australian study by Repacholi et
al.

reported doubling of lymphomas in transgenic mice exposed for 18

months to pulse-modulated 900 MHz RF fields analogous to digital
cellular

phone signals.

2. Refined dose modeling of Specific Absorbption Ratios (SAR) within
the

head and organs (by Stuchly et al., and Om Gandhi et al, and by the

Swiss) for various types of cellular phones antenna designs and

orientations have shown that localized absorption within the eye or the

brain could exceed by factors of 3 or more the current safety limits
(for

which, admittedly there was little physical or biological basis to
begin

with), and cause localized energy deposition, heating and maybe other

bio-effects., like the genotoxicity claimed by Lai and Singh.

3. Finally, the Wireless Technology Research (WTR) program

(see:http://www.WTRLLC.com), funded by the CTIA (Cellular Telephone

Industry Association) has identified types of phones (mostly digital,

European models like GSM) that can cause electromagnetic interference

(EMI) with implanted pacemakers, with non-lethal but potentially
damaging

effects. The Nov/Dec 97 issue of MWN reports on this partially
successful

research program, prompted by Congressional and public concerns that

there were no direct data on the EMR bio-effects at cellular phones

frequencies. It also contains a useful summary of a recent Swiss (Dr.

Niels Kuster of ETH) study of the radiation absorbed by (a fiberglass

model of ) the human head by a broad range of digital GSM 900 Mhz, .25

Watts pulsed cellular phones.

A lot of studies are yet to be completed and ANSI/IEEE Standards

Committee 28 has been considering changes in its 1991 exposure safety

standards C95.1.

*******************

From: telecomreg[SMTP:telecomreg@relay.doit.wisc.edu]

Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 12:21 AM

To: Multiple recipients of list

Subject: Re: Biological effects of radio-frequency emissions

The studies for the health effects associated with electromagnetic
radiation

(EMR) have been debated for over 20 years. although there may now be

new studies, the studies have been on-going. some lead one way, some

the other, but none have been definitive. one thing has occurred over
this

period. the ansi committee responsible for establishing "voluntary"

standards -- the standards that have been adopted by the FCC with
regard

to devices regulated by the Commission -- have twice been made more

restrictive. the guidelines have been strengthened not because of any

smoking gun, but because of additional caution and questions in the

scientific community.

the last standard, adopted about five years ago, is based upon whole
body

radiation measurements rather than radiation directed at any particular
part

of the body. this is very reasonable when a person stands in the far
field of

a EMR field (e.g., someone standing some distance away from a radar or

satellite transmitting antenna). In that case, the energy uniformly
passes

through the body and whole body radiation measurements make sense.

However, it is not as clear that whole body radiation measurement
standards

make sense when a person is particularly close to the transmitter (so
that the

field is nonuniform) or where the energy field is particularly more
intense

over or is directed towards one part of the body. When a person uses a

device like a cellular telephone most of the energy is directed toward
the

head and eyes. However, to determine compliance with the standard, the

energy directed at the head is averaged over the entire body. Many of
the

studies made in the past have examined the effect of EMR on the blood

brain barrier. while i do not have the expertise to evaluate these
studies (I

am only an attorney and engineer) -- and i do not believe that they
have

determined a sustained response to the EMR effect -- it does not seem
to

make sense to ignore the localized impact of of the energy. any
further

studies should consider this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Readers of this list who are particularly close followers of the
debate

about health effects of cellular phones or other electrical fields
might

want to pick up a recent issue of the ACM publication, Wireless

Network (Vol. 3, No. 6, Nov. 1997). It contains some detailed

technical articles on various experiments and models examining this

question. You won't find either smoking guns or blanket denials in

these articles. It looks like the field is at an early point, still
trying to

decide how to devise experiments or models that accurately represent

real-life use of cellular phones and related devices. </fontfamily>

--============_-1300886203==_ma============--
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:16:38 -0800
From: Melonee Cruse <mcruse@BUNNY.CHAFFEY.CC.CA.US>
Organization: Chaffey College
Subject: Panic Buttons
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Hi Folks,
Recently in our Campus Safety and Health Committee
meeting it was suggested by several individuals that "panic
buttons" were needed for various parts of our campus. These
buttons would be a direct link to the Campus Police department.
The need for these buttons arise from incidents involving irrate
students and other members of the public. Areas that have
requested these "buttons" are Financial Aid, Disabled Students
Program (for mentally disturbed students), the Information Desk
(the first window in the administration bldg) and possibly the
Bookstore and the Bursars Office.
What I would like to know is

1. Has anyone installed these types of "panic buttons".

2. Does anyone use an emergency alert system for any area one
office on campus.

There was an incident at a local community college. I forgot the
details but I will report it to this group when I get the facts
straight.

Melonee Cruse
Chaffey Community College
Rancho Cucamonga California
mcruse@chaffey.cc.ca.us
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:20:40 -0500
From: Mark Yanchisin <mark@EHS.UFL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two way Radio Safety
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Subject: Re: Two way Radio Safety

We are concerned about there potential for disruption of monitoring and
other electronic devices in the health care setting. We treat these the
same as cell phones and do not allow them to be used in patient care areas
or within 4 feet of telemetry equipment, I V pumps, etc.

I have also heard of them disrupting air monitoring pumps in an asbestos
abatement enclosure.

Mark Yanchisin
Coordinator for Clinical and Lab Safety
Programs
University of Florida Env. Health and Safety
PO Box 112190
Gainesville, FL 32611-2190
352-846-2550 (T)
352-392-7386 (F)
Mark@ehs.ufl.edu
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:32:37 -0500
From: Dan Hurley <dhurley@WFUBMC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Panic Buttons
In-Reply-To: <36509636.3F1E@chaffey.cc.ca.us>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Perhaps it would be more cost effective to train personnel in these areas
how to deal with antagonistic/ agitated people. If there is a need in these
areas for such a device, how they are treateing their customers could be
part of the problem. People are too willing to let Campus security deal
with their communications failures. Outstanding customer service could do
much to alleviate upset customers in these areas. If these areas are really
that dangerous perhaps an officer stationed in the areas during peak
anxiety times would remind all to be on thier best behaviour.

At 01:16 PM 11/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi Folks,
> Recently in our Campus Safety and Health Committee
>meeting it was suggested by several individuals that "panic
>buttons" were needed for various parts of our campus. These
>buttons would be a direct link to the Campus Police department.
>The need for these buttons arise from incidents involving irrate
>students and other members of the public. Areas that have
>requested these "buttons" are Financial Aid, Disabled Students
>Program (for mentally disturbed students), the Information Desk
>(the first window in the administration bldg) and possibly the
>Bookstore and the Bursars Office.
> What I would like to know is
>
>1. Has anyone installed these types of "panic buttons".
>
>2. Does anyone use an emergency alert system for any area one
>office on campus.
>
>There was an incident at a local community college. I forgot the
>details but I will report it to this group when I get the facts
>straight.
>
>Melonee Cruse
>Chaffey Community College
>Rancho Cucamonga California
>mcruse@chaffey.cc.ca.us
>
>
Daniel J. Hurley, CIH
Sr. Industrial Hygienist
Wake Forest University School of Medicine
910-777-3078
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:34:00 -0500
From: "Tayman, Tammy" <ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US>
Subject: Re: Panic Buttons
Comments: To: Melonee Cruse <mcruse@BUNNY.CHAFFEY.CC.CA.US>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

We have them on our campus, but we only have them in the parking lots and in
a few locations outside of buildings. They are marked by a bright blue
light on the pole that the box is located on. To my knowledge, we do not
have them in buildings.

Tammy Tayman
Montgomery College
Rockville, Maryland
----------
From: Melonee Cruse
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Panic Buttons
Date: Monday, November 16, 1998 4:16PM

Hi Folks,
Recently in our Campus Safety and Health Committee
meeting it was suggested by several individuals that "panic
buttons" were needed for various parts of our campus. These
buttons would be a direct link to the Campus Police department.
The need for these buttons arise from incidents involving irrate
students and other members of the public. Areas that have
requested these "buttons" are Financial Aid, Disabled Students
Program (for mentally disturbed students), the Information Desk
(the first window in the administration bldg) and possibly the
Bookstore and the Bursars Office.
What I would like to know is

1. Has anyone installed these types of "panic buttons".

2. Does anyone use an emergency alert system for any area one
office on campus.

There was an incident at a local community college. I forgot the
details but I will report it to this group when I get the facts
straight.

Melonee Cruse
Chaffey Community College
Rancho Cucamonga California
mcruse@chaffey.cc.ca.us
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:12:26 -0600
From: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two way Radio Safety
In-Reply-To: <435ACBA4E161D1118AC7006008A057A02B3818@ehs-nts1.ehs.ufl.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

In 11 years of prehospital patient care I don't recall heart monitors, IV
pumps, pulse oximetry units, or other medical equipment being disrupted by
the hand-held or more powerful mobile (truck-mounted) radios we've used.
Most of what we use in the field is similar or identical to what is used in
the hospital. A hand-held can easily disrupt a CRT on the other side of a
wall (without disturbing a floppy, CR-ROM, or hard drive on an attached
computer), but I haven't heard of hospital restrictions on radios - we've
never had any in the ER, ICU, etc. In fact, one of our problems was trying
to transmit and receive from inside a hospital - our ERs either have
repeaters or are having them installed. I don't think this'll change even
as we go from VHF (154 MHz) and UHF (450 MHz) to 800- and 900-MHz trunked
systems.

My wife (PICU RN) confirmed that they don't allow cellular phones on their
unit but she doesn't recall problems with radios. Interesting tale from
one of their medical bulletins: when a Minnesota station started
broadcasting its HDTV signal it disrupted heart monitors (readout only) in
the general vicinity of the TV set in one of the rooms or lounges. Don't
know what happened to the pacemaker-wearers. TV you could die for!

JNR

>We are concerned about there potential for disruption of monitoring and
>other electronic devices in the health care setting. We treat these the
>same as cell phones and do not allow them to be used in patient care areas
>or within 4 feet of telemetry equipment, I V pumps, etc.
>
>I have also heard of them disrupting air monitoring pumps in an asbestos
>abatement enclosure.

Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu

"The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise
specified."
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:25:40 -0800
From: Roberta Black <srblack@NIDC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Panic Buttons
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Melonee--I sometimes work weekends in the Chem Prep Room and no one else is in the building (not a good practice, I know) . Maintenance installed a "panic button" in chem stores which activates on Ah-oo-gah horn on the outside of the building. Haven't used it since but it is tested. What about silent alarms like they use in banks? We've had a couple of stalking incidents and armed "mad" exes--sometimes I think we all need panic buttons. Yes, North Idaho College is a community college, and we have been "bombed" by the Aryan Nations [it didn't detonate].

Pax et bonum
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:43:25 -0800
From: Michael Ahler
<Ahler_Michael_D/cpslo_employee1@POLYMAIL.CPUNIX.CALPOLY.EDU>
Subject: Two Way Radios
Comments: cc: dragsdal@calpoly.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Two"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I had thought the notion of a two-way radio interrupting an air sampling
pump a bit silly. Shortly after seeing the message from Mark Yanchisin
we actually tried it today.

My hand held transceiver does indeed affect the operation of an air
monitoring pump ( personal air monitor). The distance between the
transmitter and the pump was a few inches during our Q and D experiment.
With the pump laying on its back, the pump motor ran audibly slower when
the tranmitter was keyed.
When we tried it with the pump sitting upright ( there is a small flow
meter on the pump) to see just how much the air flow rate changed, we
found that the pump STOPPED while the transmitter was keyed - returning
to normal running when transmitting ended.
Pump = SKC model 224-43XR running nominally at 4 L per minute.
Transmitter = Motorola Radius P110 transmiting on 153.74 Mhz @ 5 watts.

TV to die for indeed!
Thanks.

Michael Ahler, CHO
Risk Management
Cal Poly
San Luis Obispo, California
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:58:47 EST
From: Marshall Huckaby <RVNLRRP@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Panic Buttons
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

I used Panic Buttons in the Healthcare environment. If you need panic buttons
then they need to be where the "operator" can initiate them with minimal
movement. For instance at a booth such as parking attendant where they
usually sit on a stool, getting up to push a button could get one injured.
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:15:33 +0930
From: Chris Miller <cmiller@REGISTRY.ADELAIDE.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Chloral hydrate
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Yet another Chloral Hydrate Anecdote.

Years ago in my laboratory technician days I worked in a university Zoology
department. My first job was as a tadpole nurseryman - but that's another
story! We used Chloral Hydrate to kill frogs (using 4% solution for large
and 2% for small). The frogs would be placed in a jar with a small amount
of the solution and they would succumb quite quickly, dying in a very
relaxed way (poor choice of words, since they never looked comfortable
sitting in the stuff). The relaxation was important however, since this
enabled the frog to be fixed with legs/arms/toes etc spread out on
absorbent paper with 3% formalin. Anyone who has ever needed to examine a a
very small dead frog for taxonomic purposes would appreciate the importance
of this fixing process.

At one time I was in charge of the Biology teaching area and being a
confident and experienced frog killer I had no real qualms about killing
the 200 or so large toads (Bufo marinus for those who like names) for the
dissection practicals. I made the mistake one day of using a container
with chloral hydrate left from the previous days killing. I left the toads
in the solution for what I thought was long enough but... well you can
guess. Many of the toads where just anaesthetised and they started coming
round in the prac class - mostly after their abdomen had been cut open for
a while. I spent a nerve racking time removing the "twitchers" as we
called them from the lab and pithing them to make sure they didn't get up
and walk off.

It was only later that I realised that the Chloral hydrate solution I had
was probably diluted down considerably by toad urine and that the toads in
their endeavours to get out of the solution, would sit on top of one
another with some able to stay high and dry.

Fortunately for the students (and the toads) I moved away from the bench
and now work full-time in safety with a whole different class of animal
some of whom are fixed in their own particular ways and could possibly do
with a Mickey Finn or two.

_______________________________________________________________________
Chris Miller
Manager, OH&S Unit
Human Resources
THE UNIVERSITY OF ADELAIDE
Adelaide, South Australia 5005
Phone: (08) 8303 4492 Fax: (08) 8303 4353
Email: cmiller@registry.adelaide.edu.au
_______________________________________________________________________

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Chloral hydrate
Author: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU> at ~INTERNET
Date: 14/11/98 2:58

Another Chloral Hydrate Anecdote

Last year, my wife and I took our then 18 month old to England to visit his
great-grandmother. We were apprehensive about how the energetic little lad
would take to an 11 hour non-stop overnight flight from LA to London. His
pediatrician (much to my surprise) prescribed chloral hydrate as a sedative.
She suggested that we try a dose out at home prior to the flight as in ~ 1%
of cases CH has an opposite effect to that desired. We did this trial and
he slept like a rock for 10 hours. Therefore around one hour into the
flight we dosed him up and waited for him to drop off.. and waited...and
waited...and waited. He eventually slept for around 2 hours while the rest
of the time he behaved rather like a wide-awake, happy drunk!!!!! Beware
chloral hydrate.

One other item in passing, Jeff Rubin mentioned that CH is used in pesticide
manufacture. Actually non-hydrated chloral is used as a feedstock in the
preparation of dichlorvos or DDVP.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mary Ann Solstad <msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET>
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: Chloral hydrate

>This discussion on chloral hydrate, which someone pointed out was the
>active ingredient in Mickey Finns (ref. old movies and detective stories),
>reminded me of some 40 yrs ago and my broken leg. It had been royally
>smashed skiing. No way could I rest for the pain, and later the itching
>under the cast. Dr. Rx-ed chloral hydrate. No way could I disguise the
>awful taste of that stuff, and we tried some innovative liquids, including
>V-8. When I did get it down, it didn't help me sleep anyhow. Never
>figured out how they could slip someone a Mickey. Just remembering.
>
>Mary Ann
>
>At 05:33 PM 11/12/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>Correct! Serves me right for trying to abbreviate the information - I
>>mixed units. A typical therpeutic dose is generally 25-50 mg/kg,
depending
>>on route and purpose, with total doses in the 200-500 mg range; 500 mg is
>>the max dose for most uses (as well as the typical adult dose).
>>
>>I guess the 20 g dose is for someone who REALLY needs sedation...
>>
>
>>>Michael Garoutte, Ph.D. garoutte-m@mail.mssc.edu
>>>Asst. Prof. of Chemistry, Missouri Southern State College
>>>3950 East Newman Road, Joplin, MO 64801-1595
>>>Phone: 417-625-9579 Fax: 417-625-3169
>>>http://www.mssc.edu/physci/chemistry
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:46:13 -0500
From: Don Abramowitz <dabramo1@SWARTHMORE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two way Radio Safety
In-Reply-To: <435ACBA4E161D1118AC7006008A057A02B3818@ehs-nts1.ehs.ufl.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I can vouch for the disruption to air monitoring pumps which feature
electronic flow controllers. I've also encountered a more serious
concern related to industrial hygiene equipment and radio transmission:
disruption of direct reading insturments. When someone transmits close to
instruments like oxygen/combustible gas meters, organic vapor detectors, CO
and H2S monitors, meters without RF shielding may spike up, generally to
full scale on analog meters. (Effect lasts the duration of the
transmission. No lasting effect observed.) Meters with alarms requiring
reset latch into the "overexposure" alarm mode.

This created some excitement the first time I worked with radios during a
confined space entry that included a full assortment of air monitoring
instruments. The entrant's transmitted response to the question "How are
you doing?" tripped every alarm, the noise from which prevented further
communication. A hasty exit followed.

Don

>Subject: Re: Two way Radio Safety

>I have also heard of them disrupting air monitoring pumps in an asbestos
>abatement enclosure.
>
>Mark Yanchisin
>Coordinator for Clinical and Lab Safety
> Programs
>University of Florida Env. Health and Safety

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Donald Abramowitz, CIH
Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer

Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081

Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
e-mail: dabramo1@swarthmore.edu
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:54:51 -0500
From: Madelyn Miller <mmiller@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Subject: Student check-out form
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Greetings All,
Does any one have a form or procedure that requires graduate students
to fill out in order to graduate ensuring that they have clearly
labeled all samples and solutions and wastes have been disposed of
properly?

Students cannot graduate here without paying parking or library fines
but can leave unidentified chemicals behind. I would appreciate
procedures that others have in place for this process. Thanks in
advance.

----------------------
Madelyn Miller
Chemical Hygiene Officer, CCHO
Environmental Health & Safety
Carnegie Mellon University
mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:31:25 -0500
From: Don Abramowitz <dabramo1@SWARTHMORE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Panic Buttons
In-Reply-To: <36509636.3F1E@chaffey.cc.ca.us>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

We have a few panic buttons, in locations where students work at night,
such as the computing center, and under a couple of administrative desks
voted most likely to encounter the irrationally irate. (I acknowledge the
prior comments about good customer service/public relations, but still, a
button couldn't hurt.) The buttons alert Public Safety of the trouble
location, and they respond.

We also have a larger scale program of emergency telephones, mostly
outdoors. In addition our science building has several non-dialable (is
that a word?) phones in the hallways that alert Public Safety of their
location as soon as the phone is lifted from the hook. The phones provide
the benefit of allowing the caller to speak to someone, improving
response, while still offering the simplicity of the panic button, if one
is only able to flip the phone off the hook. (Once the phone is off the
hook, Public Safety can hear what's going on in the area.) I believe
these are preferable to buttons for public areas.

The outdoor phones are of the speaker-phone type, wheelchair accessible and
mounted on poles with blue lights atop. The have a panic button that
connects the caller directly to Public Safety and alerts the dispatcher of
the phone's location. They also have a full keyboard which permits local
calls to be made. In addition to being a convenience to the students, the
frequent use of the phones for local calls increases everyone's awareness
of their locations.

Don

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Donald Abramowitz, CIH
Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer

Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081

Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
e-mail: dabramo1@swarthmore.edu
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:59:34 -0800
From: "John M. Neil" <jmneil@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Student check-out form
In-Reply-To: <SIMEON.9811170951.A@miller-pc.PC.CC.CMU.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I doubt you would have much trouble more than once with each thesis advisor
if you billed his project the cost of id'ing unknown and the disposal cost.

At 09:54 AM 11/17/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Greetings All,
>Does any one have a form or procedure that requires graduate students
>to fill out in order to graduate ensuring that they have clearly
>labeled all samples and solutions and wastes have been disposed of
>properly?
>
>Students cannot graduate here without paying parking or library fines
>but can leave unidentified chemicals behind. I would appreciate
>procedures that others have in place for this process. Thanks in
>advance.
>
>----------------------
>Madelyn Miller
>Chemical Hygiene Officer, CCHO
>Environmental Health & Safety
>Carnegie Mellon University
>mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu
>
>
John M. Neil

Thermochemistry Facility
Department of Chemical Engineering & Material Science
University of California at Davis
One Shields Avenue
Davis, CA 95616-8779

phone: (530) 754-2130 Fax: (530) 752-9307

"Entropy isn't what it use to be."
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:53:46 -0700
From: "Greene, Ben" <bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: Student check-out form
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Although industry here, our chemical hygiene plan requires that
employees undergoing changes in assignment dispose of or transfer
solutions to other personnel as appropriate. Relabelling containers to
indicate the current user is also a requirement. The supervisor is held
responsible. Consequently, inventory reduction/update is a part of
checking out of the lab with dual responsibilities. On lab walkthroughs
label status is always spot checked and solutions prepared by personnel
no longer working in the lab are segregated and typically disposed of
appropriately. Another thing to verify as part of check out is
termination or transfer of long-term tests, anticipation of chemicals
that were placed on order before the chemist checked out, and of course,
return of lab note books.

My opinion only.

Ben Greene, Ph.D.
AlliedSignal
PO Box 20, Las Cruces, NM 88004
bgreene@wstf.nasa.gov

> ----------
> From: John M. Neil[SMTP:jmneil@UCDAVIS.EDU]
> Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 8:59 AM
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: Re: Student check-out form
>
> I doubt you would have much trouble more than once with each thesis
> advisor
> if you billed his project the cost of id'ing unknown and the disposal
> cost.
>
> At 09:54 AM 11/17/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >Greetings All,
> >Does any one have a form or procedure that requires graduate
> students
> >to fill out in order to graduate ensuring that they have clearly
> >labeled all samples and solutions and wastes have been disposed of
> >properly?
> >
> >Students cannot graduate here without paying parking or library
> fines
> >but can leave unidentified chemicals behind. I would appreciate
> >procedures that others have in place for this process. Thanks in
> >advance.
> >
> >----------------------
> >Madelyn Miller
> >Chemical Hygiene Officer, CCHO
> >Environmental Health & Safety
> >Carnegie Mellon University
> >mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu
> >
> >
> John M. Neil
>
> Thermochemistry Facility
> Department of Chemical Engineering & Material Science
> University of California at Davis
> One Shields Avenue
> Davis, CA 95616-8779
>
> phone: (530) 754-2130 Fax: (530) 752-9307
>
> "Entropy isn't what it use to be."
>
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:14:32 -0500
From: Ian Fraser <igfraser@MC1ADM.UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Student check-out form
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Our department of Chemical Eng. has such a procedure. the form states that
all materials have been disposed of or transferred to another person. It is
signed by both the student and supervisor. which is very important. It
works fairly well.

At 09:54 AM 17/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Greetings All,
>Does any one have a form or procedure that requires graduate students
>to fill out in order to graduate ensuring that they have clearly
>labeled all samples and solutions and wastes have been disposed of
>properly?
>
>Students cannot graduate here without paying parking or library fines
>but can leave unidentified chemicals behind. I would appreciate
>procedures that others have in place for this process. Thanks in
>advance.
>
>----------------------
>Madelyn Miller
>Chemical Hygiene Officer, CCHO
>Environmental Health & Safety
>Carnegie Mellon University
>mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu
Thanks in advance

Ian Fraser
Safety Office
University of Waterloo
200 University Ave. W.
Waterloo, ON
Canada, N2L 3G1
mailto:igfraser@uwaterloo.ca
http://www.safetyoffice.uwaterloo.ca
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:30:00 -0500
From: "Tayman, Tammy" <ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US>
Subject: FW: Two way Radio Safety
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

An anecdote from a VERY reliable collegue of mine:

In the 70's in Laurel, MD, a suburb of Washington, DC, a police patrol noted
some suspicious looking persons driving the opposite way on a divided
highway. The patrol car could not turn around to make the stop, so the
officer attempted to radio for help. As the transmitter key was pressed,
the suspicious car blew up. The theory was that the bomb was being
transported with the detonator attached. The wires leading to the detonator
acted as an antenna and the rest is history. The suspects did not survive
to confirm or deny the theory.

Thought that was rather interesting!

Tammy Tayman

----------
From: Tayman, Tammy
To: Kenney, Thomas
Subject: FW: Two way Radio Safety
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 9:53AM

This one is rather amusing!
----------
From: Don Abramowitz
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: Two way Radio Safety
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 9:46AM

I can vouch for the disruption to air monitoring pumps which feature
electronic flow controllers. I've also encountered a more serious
concern related to industrial hygiene equipment and radio transmission:
disruption of direct reading insturments. When someone transmits close to
instruments like oxygen/combustible gas meters, organic vapor detectors, CO
and H2S monitors, meters without RF shielding may spike up, generally to
full scale on analog meters. (Effect lasts the duration of the
transmission. No lasting effect observed.) Meters with alarms requiring
reset latch into the "overexposure" alarm mode.

This created some excitement the first time I worked with radios during a
confined space entry that included a full assortment of air monitoring
instruments. The entrant's transmitted response to the question "How are
you doing?" tripped every alarm, the noise from which prevented further
communication. A hasty exit followed.

Don

>Subject: Re: Two way Radio Safety

>I have also heard of them disrupting air monitoring pumps in an asbestos
>abatement enclosure.
>
>Mark Yanchisin
>Coordinator for Clinical and Lab Safety
> Programs
>University of Florida Env. Health and Safety

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~
Donald Abramowitz, CIH
Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer

Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081

Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
e-mail: dabramo1@swarthmore.edu
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:38:29 -0600
From: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: FW: Two way Radio Safety
In-Reply-To: <199811171943.NAA51892@saluki-mailsmtp.siu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>An anecdote from a VERY reliable collegue of mine:
>
>In the 70's in Laurel, MD, a suburb of Washington, DC, a police patrol noted
>some suspicious looking persons driving the opposite way on a divided
>highway. The patrol car could not turn around to make the stop, so the
>officer attempted to radio for help. As the transmitter key was pressed,
>the suspicious car blew up. The theory was that the bomb was being
>transported with the detonator attached. The wires leading to the detonator
>acted as an antenna and the rest is history. The suspects did not survive
>to confirm or deny the theory.

Lots of stories like that out there, none (that I know of) verified in
terms of cause and effect. Use of two-way radios have long been restricted
on incidents involving bomb threats, suspected bomb placement, or actual
detonation; the restriction has been based on anecdote and theory. As part
of the process we've been going through evaluating and revising procedures
for terrorist incidents, we took a hard look at how we used radios during
response to such incidents. Upon consultation with various federal,
military, and other agencies, we decided not to ban radio transmissions.
The reasons:

1) No verified instance of accidental detonation of explosives by radio
transmissions, although it is theoretically possible.

2) Eliminating two-way radio communication during public-safety response to
a large incident is crippling and creates significant hazards of its own.

3) If radio transmissions were likely to detonate a bomb, units arriving
at/near a scene, or nearby traffic from other users, would have detonated
it already.

Policies are changing slowly, and I think this one will gradually fade
away. If nothing else, it merits serious risk/benefit analysis,
appropriately weighted by probability.

We do generate quite a variety of topics, don't we?

JNR

Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu

"The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise
specified."
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:48:10 -0500
Reply-To: lorain.county.crime.lab@lorainccc.edu
From: Lorain County Crime Lab <crimelab@LORAINCCC.EDU>
Organization: Lorain County Crime Lab
Subject: Re: FW: Two way Radio Safety
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Tayman, Tammy wrote:
>
> An anecdote from a VERY reliable collegue of mine:
>
> In the 70's in Laurel, MD, a suburb of Washington, DC, a police patrol noted
> some suspicious looking persons driving the opposite way on a divided
> highway. The patrol car could not turn around to make the stop, so the
> officer attempted to radio for help. As the transmitter key was pressed,
> the suspicious car blew up. The theory was that the bomb was being
> transported with the detonator attached. The wires leading to the detonator
> acted as an antenna and the rest is history. The suspects did not survive
> to confirm or deny the theory.
>
> Thought that was rather interesting!
>
> Tammy Tayman
>
> ----------
> From: Tayman, Tammy
> To: Kenney, Thomas
> Subject: FW: Two way Radio Safety
> Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 9:53AM
>
> This one is rather amusing!
> ----------
> From: Don Abramowitz
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: Re: Two way Radio Safety
> Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 9:46AM
>
> I can vouch for the disruption to air monitoring pumps which feature
> electronic flow controllers. I've also encountered a more serious
> concern related to industrial hygiene equipment and radio transmission:
> disruption of direct reading insturments. When someone transmits close to
> instruments like oxygen/combustible gas meters, organic vapor detectors, CO
> and H2S monitors, meters without RF shielding may spike up, generally to
> full scale on analog meters. (Effect lasts the duration of the
> transmission. No lasting effect observed.) Meters with alarms requiring
> reset latch into the "overexposure" alarm mode.
>
> This created some excitement the first time I worked with radios during a
> confined space entry that included a full assortment of air monitoring
> instruments. The entrant's transmitted response to the question "How are
> you doing?" tripped every alarm, the noise from which prevented further
> communication. A hasty exit followed.
>
> Don
>
> >Subject: Re: Two way Radio Safety
>
> >I have also heard of them disrupting air monitoring pumps in an asbestos
> >abatement enclosure.
> >
> >Mark Yanchisin
> >Coordinator for Clinical and Lab Safety
> > Programs
> >University of Florida Env. Health and Safety
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~
> Donald Abramowitz, CIH
> Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer
>
> Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
> 101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
> Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081
>
> Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
> Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
> e-mail: dabramo1@swarthmore.edu
Radio frequency interference with instruments must also investigated.
In law enforcement the use of hand held radios is a common event. Radio
frequency interference has been documented in several breath alcohol
testing instruments. The manufacturing companies have made
modifications during the years in order to prevent erroneous results.
Some instruments are shielded in metal and others have antennas and
radio frequency detectors built into their systems. When the instrument
detects any radio frequency, it shuts down the test.
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:15:23 -0500
From: Dewey Williams <williams@EMAIL.UNCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Student check-out form
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981117141421.00993180@mc1adm.mc1adm.uwaterloo.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Most PI/supervisors are so busy they may not have a chance to check on the
students work area until after all is said and done.

A better person to sign off on it is the Haz Waste manager. I have
attempted to implement something like this here, to no avail. And since I
get to deal with all the left over waste, it is important to me to be the
one making sure everything is done right.

At 11/17/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Our department of Chemical Eng. has such a procedure. the form states that
>all materials have been disposed of or transferred to another person. It is
>signed by both the student and supervisor. which is very important. It
>works fairly well.

Dewey Williams - Lab Manager
mailto:williams@email.uncc.edu
UNC-Charlotte Chemistry Dept. http://www.chem.uncc.edu
"These are my ideas and no one else will claim them."
"If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate"
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:16:19 -0500
From: "Guy W. Innocente" <innocent@ICI.NET>
Subject: Re: Two way Radio Safety
In-Reply-To: <v04003a00b27738fe663c@[130.58.150.100]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

We had problems with radio tranmissions having adver effects on dialysis
machines. Hazard alert was reported by our biomedical engineering
department through ECRI. (Check with your local hospital, Biomedical
department)

Biomedical engineering departments are always a good source when you have
Medical Equipment questions.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 09:46 AM 11/17/98 -0500, Don Abramowitz wrote:
>I can vouch for the disruption to air monitoring pumps which feature
>electronic flow controllers. I've also encountered a more serious
>concern related to industrial hygiene equipment and radio transmission:
>disruption of direct reading insturments. When someone transmits close to
>instruments like oxygen/combustible gas meters, organic vapor detectors, CO
>and H2S monitors, meters without RF shielding may spike up, generally to
>full scale on analog meters. (Effect lasts the duration of the
>transmission. No lasting effect observed.) Meters with alarms requiring
>reset latch into the "overexposure" alarm mode.
>
>This created some excitement the first time I worked with radios during a
>confined space entry that included a full assortment of air monitoring
>instruments. The entrant's transmitted response to the question "How are
>you doing?" tripped every alarm, the noise from which prevented further
>communication. A hasty exit followed.
>
> Don
>
>>Subject: Re: Two way Radio Safety
>
>>I have also heard of them disrupting air monitoring pumps in an asbestos
>>abatement enclosure.
>>
>>Mark Yanchisin
>>Coordinator for Clinical and Lab Safety
>> Programs
>>University of Florida Env. Health and Safety
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Donald Abramowitz, CIH
> Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer
>
> Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
> 101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
> Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081
>
>Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
>Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
>e-mail: dabramo1@swarthmore.edu
>
>
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:34:31 +0100
From: Debra Sharpe <sharpdc@MAIL.AUBURN.EDU>
Subject: Do you have one?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>We are trying to gather information from other Universities about
>Assistant Safety Director positions. If you have this position (or one
>similar) at your institution could you please complete the following:
>
>1) Institution Name-
>
>2)Current Salary-
>
>3)Salary Range-
>
>4)Number of Employees reporting to this position-
>
>5)Types of programs reporting to this position-
>
>
>Thankyou in advance for your responses! Although this information is
>readily availble by industry benchmarking, we find lots of disparity among
>academic institutions, any information you can provide will be most
>helpful! Please e-mail me directly at: sharpdc@mail.auburn.edu. If
>the list would like a summary of the responses I will provide one.
>
>
>

Debra Sharpe
University Safety Officer
Auburn University
Ph (334) 844-4870
fax 4640
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:19:18 EST
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: B'ham, AL Lab Safety Workshop/Conference
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Hi NACHO members,

Responding to Frank's request...

The lab safety awareness program scheduled for the regional NSTA meeting in
Birmingham will be held on Friday November 20th at the Civic Center in
Ballroom A from 11-12 and then in the afternoon (I believe in the same area).

There are several speakers on the panel... Jack Gerlovich, Lee Summerlin, Mark
Mazeros, and me. We will give brief overviews in the morning and longer
presentations in the afternoon. My two topics are Liability and the Lab
Standard.

Hope to see you there.... jim

*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education

The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.

The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSI.
Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG
**********************************************************************
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:29:11 -0500
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: chemistry
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

New ACS pup came yestrerday, named "Chemistry". Zero points for originality
in the name, but a nice little paper. It has a good article on MSDSs,
including some quotes and a good picture of our friend and mentor, Jim
Kaufman.

Those NACHOers who have not have the pleasure of Jim up close and personel,
check him out!

Bob

"EVERYTHING IS EASY FOR THE PERSON WHO DOESN'T HAVE TO DO IT."

Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
RUETGERS Organics Corp.
201 Struble Road
State College, PA
phone 814 231 9214
fax 814 238 1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:26:00 +0930
From: Chris Miller <cmiller@REGISTRY.ADELAIDE.EDU.AU>
Subject: Chloral Hydrate story
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Yet another Chloral Hydrate Anecdote. Who started this?

Years ago in my laboratory technician days I worked in a university Zoology
department. My first job was as a tadpole nurseryman - but that's another
story! We used Chloral Hydrate to kill frogs (using 4% solution for large
and 2% for small). The frogs would be placed in a jar with a small amount
of the solution and they would succumb quite quickly, dying in a very
relaxed way (poor choice of words, since they never looked comfortable
sitting in the stuff). The relaxation was important however, since this
enabled the frog to be fixed with legs/arms/toes etc spread out on
absorbent paper with 3% formalin. Anyone who has ever needed to examine a a
very small dead frog for taxonomic purposes would appreciate the importance
of this fixing process.

At one time I was in charge of the Biology teaching area and being a
confident and experienced frog killer I had no real qualms about killing
the 200 or so large toads (Bufo marinus for those who like names) for the
dissection practicals. I made the mistake one day of using a container
with chloral hydrate left from the previous days killing. I left the toads
in the solution for what I thought was long enough but... well you can
guess. Many of the toads where just anaesthetised and they started coming
round in the prac class - mostly after their abdomen had been cut open for
a while. I spent a nerve racking time removing the "twitchers" as we
called them from the lab and pithing them to make sure they didn't get up
and walk off.

It was only later that I realised that the Chloral hydrate solution I had
was probably diluted down considerably by toad urine and that the toads in
their endeavours to get out of the solution, would sit on top of one
another with some able to stay high and dry.

Fortunately for the students (and the toads) I moved away from the bench
and now work full-time in safety with a whole different class of animal
some of whom are fixed in their own particular ways and could possibly do
with a Mickey Finn or two.

_______________________________________________________________________
Chris Miller
Manager, OH&S Unit
Human Resources
THE UNIVERSITY OF ADELAIDE
Adelaide, South Australia 5005
Phone: (08) 8303 4492 Fax: (08) 8303 4353 Email:
cmiller@registry.adelaide.edu.au
_______________________________________________________________________
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:38:00 -0700
From: Becky Hoagland <HoaglanB@ARS.USDA.GOV>
Subject: Safety Training for Custodial Staff
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

I realize this if a bit off the subject of lab safety, but I'm trying to locate
training materials for our janitorial staff. Specifically, we need to do
some educating about the hazards of aerosols, the dangers inherent in
the chemicals used in cleaning agents, etc. Our staff is comprised of
individuals with a high school education (if we're lucky). They tend to
not want to read labels. They also seem to think that if X amount of
cleaning stuff is good, then 3X must be 3 times better (you know the
scenario). Unfortunately, their supervisor seems to find it a bit
embarrassing to have to train people on how to clean bathrooms; hence
this whole issue has not been properly addressed. If anyone can point
me in the direction of training sources (videos, etc.), I'd be most
appreciative.

Becky Hoagland
Environmental Protection Specialist
USDA-ARS
P.O. Box 225
Stoneville, MS 38776
Phone: 601-686-5432
Fax: 601-686-5373
E-mail: hoaglanb@ars.usda.gov
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:20:26 -0600
From: "Clark S. Crabtree" <crabtreec@GRAYSON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Safety Training for Custodial Staff
In-Reply-To: <s653bc9d.004@ars.usda.gov>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Genium Publishing (http://www.genium.com) offers a training materials for
matinance and custodial staffs as well as laboratory personel.
The opions expressed are my own, **Clark S. Crabtree******
and not those of Grayson County College. **crabtreec@grayson.edu**
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:51:47 -0500
From: Amy Gregory <cordisar@EMAIL.UC.EDU>
Subject: Forming a Safety Committee
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Everyone!!!

I work for a branch college of the University of Cincinnati. Currently, we
do not have any CHO or safety corrodinator here on campus. However, there
is a university H&S dept. on the main campus who take care of waste
disposal and any serious safety issues that arise.

The administrators here at our college and the main campus H&S dept. feel
that a college-specific safety plan should be established. Furthermore,
the administrators would like me to coordinate a college-wide safety
committee. This committee would combine the grounds and security (which
currently have an unofficial committee) and the full and part-time faculty
and staff in various departments. They want all issues to be expressed
(i.e. first aid, lab safety, security, safety in academia, etc...). Where
do I begin????

Thanks for your assistance in advance.

Amy R. Gregory
Bio/Chem Lab Manager
UC/Clermont College
4200 College Dr.
Batavia, OH 45103

Amy.Gregory@UC.EDU
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:33:19 -0800
From: Christophe YOUNGHANS-HAUG <CHRISYH@UCI.EDU>
Subject: Phosgene generation from unstabilized chloroform

> A lab worker passed this information to me earlier this week. I felt it
> would be of general interest to this list.
>
> Point your browser to the following URL:
>
> http://www.nwfsc.noaa.gov/protocols/chloroform.html
>
> ****************************
> Chris Younghans-Haug
> EH&S Programs Coordinator for the College of Medicine
> University of California
> Irvine 92697-3950
> (949) 824-4660
> (949) 824-1121 fax
> chrisyh@uci.edu
> ****************************
>
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:44:12 -0500
From: Paula Ortiz <portiz@WSCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Forming a Safety Committee
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19981119095135.00924100@email.uc.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Amy,

It is important to have an administrator on the safety committee. It's
even better if you make the administrator the chair. Our safety committee
is made up of faculty and staff representing every department, Deans,
Program Directors, the Human Resources Director, a disability specialist,
the Vice Preseident/Treasurer of the college, who is also the Chair, and
myself as the facility CHO. Our committee works diligently to accomodate
any type of safety and/or health issue. We also meet every two weeks.

Hope this helps!!!

Paula Ortiz, CCHO, CPT
Science Laboratory Technician
Washington State Community College
710 Colegate Dr.
Marietta, OH 45750
phone: 740.374.8716 X679

09:51 AM 11/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi Everyone!!!
>
>I work for a branch college of the University of Cincinnati. Currently, we
>do not have any CHO or safety corrodinator here on campus. However, there
>is a university H&S dept. on the main campus who take care of waste
>disposal and any serious safety issues that arise.
>
>The administrators here at our college and the main campus H&S dept. feel
>that a college-specific safety plan should be established. Furthermore,
>the administrators would like me to coordinate a college-wide safety
>committee. This committee would combine the grounds and security (which
>currently have an unofficial committee) and the full and part-time faculty
>and staff in various departments. They want all issues to be expressed
>(i.e. first aid, lab safety, security, safety in academia, etc...). Where
>do I begin????
>
>Thanks for your assistance in advance.
>
>Amy R. Gregory
>Bio/Chem Lab Manager
>UC/Clermont College
>4200 College Dr.
>Batavia, OH 45103
>
>Amy.Gregory@UC.EDU
>
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:33:01 -0500
From: Madelyn Miller <mmiller@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Forming a Safety Committee
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19981119095135.00924100@email.uc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Greetings,
I think I'd break up the safety groups into several different safety
committees. Have one committee for Radiation, Laboratory, and
Facilities. Some of your members might overlap but it will help keep
boredom off your agenda and those who have a passion for any of the
individual subjects will help run the meetings.

My two cents. That's what we do here.
Madelyn

On Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:51:47 -0500 Amy Gregory <cordisar@EMAIL.UC.EDU>
wrote:

> Hi Everyone!!!
>
> I work for a branch college of the University of Cincinnati. Currently, we
> do not have any CHO or safety corrodinator here on campus. However, there
> is a university H&S dept. on the main campus who take care of waste
> disposal and any serious safety issues that arise.
>
> The administrators here at our college and the main campus H&S dept. feel
> that a college-specific safety plan should be established. Furthermore,
> the administrators would like me to coordinate a college-wide safety
> committee. This committee would combine the grounds and security (which
> currently have an unofficial committee) and the full and part-time faculty
> and staff in various departments. They want all issues to be expressed
> (i.e. first aid, lab safety, security, safety in academia, etc...). Where
> do I begin????
>
> Thanks for your assistance in advance.
>
> Amy R. Gregory
> Bio/Chem Lab Manager
> UC/Clermont College
> 4200 College Dr.
> Batavia, OH 45103
>
> Amy.Gregory@UC.EDU

----------------------
Madelyn Miller
Chemical Hygiene Officer, CCHO
Environmental Health & Safety
Carnegie Mellon University
mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:43:59 -0500
From: "Walters.Douglas" <walters@NIEHS.NIH.GOV>
Subject: Re: Forming a Safety Committee
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Don't over look the design school-U. Cinn. has a good one and I suspect they
sometimes work w. hazardous materials and may have few safety precautions.
Doug
Douglas B. Walters, Ph.D., CSP
Head, Laboratory Health and Safety
National Toxicology Program
National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences
PO Box 12233
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709
919. 541.3355 (voice)
919. 541.3687 (FAX)
walters@niehs.nih.gov

> ----------
> From: Amy Gregory
> Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 1998 9:51 AM
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: Forming a Safety Committee
>
> Hi Everyone!!!
>
> I work for a branch college of the University of Cincinnati. Currently,
> we
> do not have any CHO or safety corrodinator here on campus. However, there
> is a university H&S dept. on the main campus who take care of waste
> disposal and any serious safety issues that arise.
>
> The administrators here at our college and the main campus H&S dept. feel
> that a college-specific safety plan should be established. Furthermore,
> the administrators would like me to coordinate a college-wide safety
> committee. This committee would combine the grounds and security (which
> currently have an unofficial committee) and the full and part-time faculty
> and staff in various departments. They want all issues to be expressed
> (i.e. first aid, lab safety, security, safety in academia, etc...).
> Where
> do I begin????
>
> Thanks for your assistance in advance.
>
> Amy R. Gregory
> Bio/Chem Lab Manager
> UC/Clermont College
> 4200 College Dr.
> Batavia, OH 45103
>
> Amy.Gregory@UC.EDU
>
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:33:29 -0800
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: New Safety 99
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Can someone help this person? I'm on the wrong coast to be of any use on
this one <g>.
Deb.

>X-POP3-Rcpt: dmdecker@pop3
>Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:39:37 -0500
>From: JoAnn_CTR_Maser@admin.tc.faa.gov (JoAnn CTR Maser)
>Subject: New Safety 99
>To: dmdecker@UCDAVIS.edu
>
> Debbie,
>
> Could you please send me info on registration for the above conference
> in Hartford?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jo Ann Maser
>
> joann_ctr_maser@admin.tc.faa.gov
> 609-485-8214
>
>
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:37:56 -0500
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Safety Training for Custodial Staff
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Becky.

It is interesting that you brought up this topic. I will be presenting a session at the New England regional meeting of Facilities Folks, I do not remember their official name. Topic - Lab Safety and Haz Com for housekeepers. Until I started here, nothing was really done along the lines of training these very important support staff. I found they were a hazard to themselves and my labs, so I took it upon myself to start training housekeepers assigned to my areas. Word got out and I was soon getting requests from housekeepers form other areas on campus to help them. You see, there is a common misconception that these folks can't or wont understand the hazards associated with the stuff they work with and around. Frankly, I have found them one of the most rewarding groups to work with.

I simply give them the info in a setting that is non intimidating and try to draw parallels with current events and other areas of their lives. If you make the training personal enough, you have a better chance of getting the message through. I have found the housekeeping staff to be a great ali in lab inspections. They see areas every day. If something is going on that is un safe or out of the ordinary, they call me.

I would say that all you really need to do is set up a Haz Com session for these folks. They should be getting it once a year anyway. We also have monthly staff meetings where special topics can be discussed to reinforce the safety theme.

Hope this helps, Janeen.

*****************
Janeen Lapierre, CHO
College of Osteopathic Medicine
University of New England
11 Hills Beach Road
Biddeford, ME 04005

E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU
Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446
Opinions are mine and not those of UNE.

>>> Becky Hoagland <HoaglanB@ARS.USDA.GOV> - 11/19/98 8:38 AM >>>
I realize this if a bit off the subject of lab safety, but I'm trying to locate
training materials for our janitorial staff. Specifically, we need to do
some educating about the hazards of aerosols, the dangers inherent in
the chemicals used in cleaning agents, etc. Our staff is comprised of
individuals with a high school education (if we're lucky). They tend to
not want to read labels. They also seem to think that if X amount of
cleaning stuff is good, then 3X must be 3 times better (you know the
scenario). Unfortunately, their supervisor seems to find it a bit
embarrassing to have to train people on how to clean bathrooms; hence
this whole issue has not been properly addressed. If anyone can point
me in the direction of training sources (videos, etc.), I'd be most
appreciative.

Becky Hoagland
Environmental Protection Specialist
USDA-ARS
P.O. Box 225
Stoneville, MS 38776
Phone: 601-686-5432
Fax: 601-686-5373
E-mail: hoaglanb@ars.usda.gov
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:59:53 -0800
From: Ray Campbell <ray.campbell@SPP.VARIAN.COM>
Subject: Re: New Safety 99
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981119083329.007b2d10@scarlet.ucdavis.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

We are never on the wrong coast for any reason!!!!

At 08:33 AM 11/19/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Can someone help this person? I'm on the wrong coast to be of any use on
>this one <g>.
>Deb.
>
>>X-POP3-Rcpt: dmdecker@pop3
>>Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:39:37 -0500
>>From: JoAnn_CTR_Maser@admin.tc.faa.gov (JoAnn CTR Maser)
>>Subject: New Safety 99
>>To: dmdecker@UCDAVIS.edu
>>
>> Debbie,
>>
>> Could you please send me info on registration for the above conference
>> in Hartford?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jo Ann Maser
>>
>> joann_ctr_maser@admin.tc.faa.gov
>> 609-485-8214
>>
>>
>
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:12:46 -0800
From: Mike hinz <mhinz@WSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Safety Training for Custodial Staff
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

We put a member of the janitorial staff on our departmental safety
committee. This has worked quite well. The communication is better. We feel
more like we are all on the same team. Who gets around the department, from
one end to the other, more than the custodians?
Something else we do is take up a collection from staff & faculty
and have a custodian appreciation day. No big deal money-wise, just a couple
of pizzas, but the payoff in good will with an essential group that is often
overlooked is priceless.

Mike Hinz
Chemistry Dept.
Washington State University

At 11:37 AM 11/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi Becky.
>
>It is interesting that you brought up this topic. I will be presenting a
session at the New England regional meeting of Facilities Folks, I do not
remember their official name. Topic - Lab Safety and Haz Com for
housekeepers. Until I started here, nothing was really done along the lines
of training these very important support staff. I found they were a hazard
to themselves and my labs, so I took it upon myself to start training
housekeepers assigned to my areas. Word got out and I was soon getting
requests from housekeepers form other areas on campus to help them. You
see, there is a common misconception that these folks can't or wont
understand the hazards associated with the stuff they work with and around.
Frankly, I have found them one of the most rewarding groups to work with.
>
>I simply give them the info in a setting that is non intimidating and try
to draw parallels with current events and other areas of their lives. If
you make the training personal enough, you have a better chance of getting
the message through. I have found the housekeeping staff to be a great ali
in lab inspections. They see areas every day. If something is going on
that is un safe or out of the ordinary, they call me.
>
>I would say that all you really need to do is set up a Haz Com session for
these folks. They should be getting it once a year anyway. We also have
monthly staff meetings where special topics can be discussed to reinforce
the safety theme.
>
>Hope this helps, Janeen.
>
>
>*****************
>Janeen Lapierre, CHO
>College of Osteopathic Medicine
>University of New England
>11 Hills Beach Road
>Biddeford, ME 04005
>
>E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU
>Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446
>Opinions are mine and not those of UNE.
>
>>>> Becky Hoagland <HoaglanB@ARS.USDA.GOV> - 11/19/98 8:38 AM >>>
>I realize this if a bit off the subject of lab safety, but I'm trying to locate
>training materials for our janitorial staff. Specifically, we need to do
>some educating about the hazards of aerosols, the dangers inherent in
>the chemicals used in cleaning agents, etc. Our staff is comprised of
>individuals with a high school education (if we're lucky). They tend to
>not want to read labels. They also seem to think that if X amount of
>cleaning stuff is good, then 3X must be 3 times better (you know the
>scenario). Unfortunately, their supervisor seems to find it a bit
>embarrassing to have to train people on how to clean bathrooms; hence
>this whole issue has not been properly addressed. If anyone can point
>me in the direction of training sources (videos, etc.), I'd be most
>appreciative.
>
>Becky Hoagland
>Environmental Protection Specialist
>USDA-ARS
>P.O. Box 225
>Stoneville, MS 38776
>Phone: 601-686-5432
>Fax: 601-686-5373
>E-mail: hoaglanb@ars.usda.gov
>
>
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:05:37 -0500
From: "Ruzek, Anne" <RUZEKAN@MAIL.NORTHGRUM.COM>
Subject: Re: Forming a Safety Committee
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Hi Amy,
In my experience, I would do the following:
* There are so many areas, Labs, classrooms, grounds, facilities,
security, etc. that it may be prudent to establish several smaller
committees, with an elected representative to participate in a larger
committee. Meeting frequency will be established on the need and work which
must be accomplished.
* The larger or executive safety committee must be chaired by an
individual of authority, and counceled by an experienced safety
professional. This person needs to be one who can get things done. If this
person is not in place, the rest will fall by the way side.
* All committees will need to address the following issues (to name a
few of the main ones):
* fire safety and evacuation procedures
* the PPE standard - which requires evaluation, training and
record keeping
* liability issues
* security issues
* Accident record keeping and analysis
* the Hazard Communication Standard and Laboratory Safety
Standard (1910.1200&.1450)
* Safety and environmental inspection frequency of all
facilities

All of the above procedures should be formalized in writing, including the
formal set up of the Safety Committee structure, their function and purpose.
Hope this is what you were looking for.

Anne M. Ruzek, CSP, MS
Northrop Grumman Corp.
Bethpage, NY

> ----------
> From: Amy Gregory[SMTP:cordisar@EMAIL.UC.EDU]
> Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 1998 9:51 AM
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: Forming a Safety Committee
>
> Hi Everyone!!!
>
> I work for a branch college of the University of Cincinnati. Currently,
> we
> do not have any CHO or safety corrodinator here on campus. However, there
> is a university H&S dept. on the main campus who take care of waste
> disposal and any serious safety issues that arise.
>
> The administrators here at our college and the main campus H&S dept. feel
> that a college-specific safety plan should be established. Furthermore,
> the administrators would like me to coordinate a college-wide safety
> committee. This committee would combine the grounds and security (which
> currently have an unofficial committee) and the full and part-time faculty
> and staff in various departments. They want all issues to be expressed
> (i.e. first aid, lab safety, security, safety in academia, etc...).
> Where
> do I begin????
>
> Thanks for your assistance in advance.
>
> Amy R. Gregory
> Bio/Chem Lab Manager
> UC/Clermont College
> 4200 College Dr.
> Batavia, OH 45103
>
> Amy.Gregory@UC.EDU
>
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:27:16 -0800
From: "Ruzek, Anne" <RUZEKAN@MAIL.NORTHGRUM.COM>
Subject: Re: Safety Training for Custodial Staff
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I realize that the list has not heard from me much, but how about two
comments in one day. While you are formulating a training program for the
custodial staff, how about considering the following areas:
* blood borne pathogen training incorporating training for needle
punctures (it's an exposure from the handling of trash) and
* asbestos awareness training.

Anne M. Ruzek, CSP, MS
Northrop Grumman Corp.
Bethpage, NY

> ----------
> From: Mike hinz[SMTP:mhinz@WSU.EDU]
> Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 1998 12:12 PM
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: Re: Safety Training for Custodial Staff
>
> We put a member of the janitorial staff on our departmental safety
> committee. This has worked quite well. The communication is better. We
> feel
> more like we are all on the same team. Who gets around the department,
> from
> one end to the other, more than the custodians?
> Something else we do is take up a collection from staff & faculty
> and have a custodian appreciation day. No big deal money-wise, just a
> couple
> of pizzas, but the payoff in good will with an essential group that is
> often
> overlooked is priceless.
>
> Mike Hinz
> Chemistry Dept.
> Washington State University
>
> At 11:37 AM 11/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >Hi Becky.
> >
> >It is interesting that you brought up this topic. I will be presenting a
> session at the New England regional meeting of Facilities Folks, I do not
> remember their official name. Topic - Lab Safety and Haz Com for
> housekeepers. Until I started here, nothing was really done along the
> lines
> of training these very important support staff. I found they were a
> hazard
> to themselves and my labs, so I took it upon myself to start training
> housekeepers assigned to my areas. Word got out and I was soon getting
> requests from housekeepers form other areas on campus to help them. You
> see, there is a common misconception that these folks can't or wont
> understand the hazards associated with the stuff they work with and
> around.
> Frankly, I have found them one of the most rewarding groups to work with.
> >
> >I simply give them the info in a setting that is non intimidating and try
> to draw parallels with current events and other areas of their lives. If
> you make the training personal enough, you have a better chance of getting
> the message through. I have found the housekeeping staff to be a great
> ali
> in lab inspections. They see areas every day. If something is going on
> that is un safe or out of the ordinary, they call me.
> >
> >I would say that all you really need to do is set up a Haz Com session
> for
> these folks. They should be getting it once a year anyway. We also have
> monthly staff meetings where special topics can be discussed to reinforce
> the safety theme.
> >
> >Hope this helps, Janeen.
> >
> >
> >*****************
> >Janeen Lapierre, CHO
> >College of Osteopathic Medicine
> >University of New England
> >11 Hills Beach Road
> >Biddeford, ME 04005
> >
> >E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU
> >Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446
> >Opinions are mine and not those of UNE.
> >
> >>>> Becky Hoagland <HoaglanB@ARS.USDA.GOV> - 11/19/98 8:38 AM >>>
> >I realize this if a bit off the subject of lab safety, but I'm trying to
> locate
> >training materials for our janitorial staff. Specifically, we need to do
> >some educating about the hazards of aerosols, the dangers inherent in
> >the chemicals used in cleaning agents, etc. Our staff is comprised of
> >individuals with a high school education (if we're lucky). They tend to
> >not want to read labels. They also seem to think that if X amount of
> >cleaning stuff is good, then 3X must be 3 times better (you know the
> >scenario). Unfortunately, their supervisor seems to find it a bit
> >embarrassing to have to train people on how to clean bathrooms; hence
> >this whole issue has not been properly addressed. If anyone can point
> >me in the direction of training sources (videos, etc.), I'd be most
> >appreciative.
> >
> >Becky Hoagland
> >Environmental Protection Specialist
> >USDA-ARS
> >P.O. Box 225
> >Stoneville, MS 38776
> >Phone: 601-686-5432
> >Fax: 601-686-5373
> >E-mail: hoaglanb@ars.usda.gov
> >
> >
>
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:38:52 -0700
From: Becky Hoagland <HoaglanB@ARS.USDA.GOV>
Subject: Re: Safety Training for Custodial Staff -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Thanks, Janeen. Lots of helpful info!!

Becky
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:39:02 -0800
From: Roberta Black <srblack@NIDC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Safety Training for Custodial Staff
Comments: To: HoaglanB@ARS.USDA.GOV
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Becky, several years ago we instituted an RTK program for the custodial staff--We had about 3 hours broken down into one hour units, one on chemistry (pH, solvents, why more is not better, why you don't mix bleach cleaners with acids, etc., a lot of demo stuff), one on bb-pathogens and PPE, and one on MSDS. Did the initial one-a-month, have had yearly followups on bbp and MSDS, RTK. We schedule it late afternoon or evening so it's on their shift, and they get paid for it. Please don't ask them to come it at 10am since for most of them that's like asking you to attend a class at midnight. PS--Secretaries and people like that handle toner-cartridges which are not exactly non-hazardous. I do one for them and one for cafeteria workers also.

Pax et bonum
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:41:23 EST
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Safety Training for Custodial Staff
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

One of the early symposia that Lab Safety Workshop organized was on health and
safety issues for custodial and maintenance workers. We continue to provide
training programs for them. If any is interested, please contact me for more
information.

There's no magic to safety. The same ideas we share with scientists and
science educators work extremely well with most other professions. ... jim
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:28:43 -0800
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Safety Training for Custodial Staff
In-Reply-To: <s653bc9d.004@ars.usda.gov>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 06:38 AM 11/19/98 -0700, you wrote:
>I realize this if a bit off the subject of lab safety, but I'm trying to
locate
>training materials for our janitorial staff. Specifically, we need to do
>some educating about the hazards of aerosols, the dangers inherent in
>the chemicals used in cleaning agents, etc. Our staff is comprised of
>individuals with a high school education (if we're lucky). They tend to
>not want to read labels. They also seem to think that if X amount of
>cleaning stuff is good, then 3X must be 3 times better (you know the
>scenario). Unfortunately, their supervisor seems to find it a bit
>embarrassing to have to train people on how to clean bathrooms; hence
>this whole issue has not been properly addressed. If anyone can point
>me in the direction of training sources (videos, etc.), I'd be most
>appreciative.

Coastal Communications has a video (and training program) out called Haz
Com for Schools - it focuses primarily on custodial type activities. It's
quite good, though pricey ($200?). Go to their website at
www.safetyonline.net/coastal/ Good website, too. They also have a very
good video program on groundskeeper safety.

Deb.

Debbie Decker
EH&S UCDavis
(530)754-7964
dmdecker@ucdavis.edu
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:23:24 -0700
From: Becky Hoagland <HoaglanB@ARS.USDA.GOV>
Subject: Testing for Presence of Perchlorates
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Does anyone know of test kits for the presence of perchlorates? We've
got a perchloric acid hood that has not been used for that purpose for a
number of years, and the researcher would like to "decommission" it and
make it available for other uses. Any and all info will be greatly
appreciated.

Becky Hoagland
Environmental Protection Specialist
USDA-ARS
P.O. Box 225
Stoneville, MS 38776
Phone: 601-686-5432
Fax: 601-686-5373
E-mail: hoaglanb@ars.usda.gov
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:22:00 -0700
From: Ellen Anson <anson1@LLNL.GOV>
Subject: Re: Testing for Presence of Perchlorates
In-Reply-To: <s6557b37.026@ars.usda.gov>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

There is a very good book on this subject called

Perchloric Acid and Perchlorates by Alfred A. Schilt
published by THE G. FREDERICK SMITH CHEMICAL CO. COLUMBUS OHIO 43223

We actually used a Whatman smear tabs soaked in1% methylene solution and
then dried on a ventilation system to detect perchlorates. It worked very
well.
_________________
>Does anyone know of test kits for the presence of perchlorates? We've
>got a perchloric acid hood that has not been used for that purpose for a
>number of years, and the researcher would like to "decommission" it and
>make it available for other uses. Any and all info will be greatly
>appreciated.
>
>Becky Hoagland
>Environmental Protection Specialist
>USDA-ARS
>P.O. Box 225
>Stoneville, MS 38776
>Phone: 601-686-5432
>Fax: 601-686-5373
>E-mail: hoaglanb@ars.usda.gov
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:10:55 +1300
From: Tony Haggerty <techton@IHUG.CO.NZ>
Subject: Peracatic acid
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have had a query on monitoring Peracetic acid fumes used in a sterilisation unit.

Does anyone know of a Drager type monitoring tube or any other which I can pass on.

Thanks
Tony Haggerty
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 03:15:35 -0600
From: Mark Smith <smithme@MERCURY.HENDRIX.EDU>
Subject: Inventory Software
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19981112191107.006c5648@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Can anyone recommend a chemical inventory software for Mac based systems?

We are working with a 2300 chemical volume in an academic lab environment.

Thanks!

ms

***************************************
MARK SMITH
HENDRIX COLLEGE CHEMISTRY
LABORATORY COORDINATOR
CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER NRCC-CHO
***************************************
1600 Washington Ave
Conway, AR 72032
501-450-3812
Fax : 501-450-3829
***************************************
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:41:25 -0500
From: Mark Yanchisin <mark@EHS.UFL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Peracatic acid
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> I have had a query on monitoring Peracetic acid fumes used in
> a sterilisation unit.

> Does anyone know of a Drager type monitoring tube or any other
> which I can pass on.

The STERIS sterilizers use 35% peracetic acid (aka PA, peroxyacetic acid)
which during a cycle is diluted to a 0.2% use solution that is circulated
through the chamber. The cup holds 60 mls of solution and about 100 grms of
dry buffer. The cups and use solution can have a strong vinegar/acetic acid
odor.

We had concerns about our staff having concerns about the odors so we did
sampling when the processors were installed. We used a low volume pump and
charcoal tubes. We could find no Draeger type tubes available for sampling.
The operators and area around the processors were sampled a number of times.

There is no standard for PA analysis, so the lab we sent the tubes to had to
rely on protocols for acetic acid. Only once did we get a sample that was
above the minimum detection limit of the analyzer, and I suspect that this
area sample was tampered with (it was moved from it's original placement).
We never got anywhere near a hazardous level on any sample, personal or
area.

Good luck.

Mark Yanchisin
Coordinator for Clinical and Lab Safety
Programs
University of Florida Env. Health and Safety
PO Box 112190
Gainesville, FL 32611-2190
352-846-2550 (T)
352-392-7386 (F)
Mark@ehs.ufl.edu
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:59:56 -0000
From: "L. James Stock III" <34EMQ6K@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Inventory Software
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Emailer_-1299955325"

--Emailer_-1299955325
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Very interesting as my current inventory is 2,253 different chemicals. I
have created a wonderful inventory system in my chemistry stockroom using
my Macintosh PowerPC 7600 and the delightful database program
FileMakerPro 4.0
I use BarCodePro to generate Code 3 of 9 bar codes and create Avery 5160
laser labels using MacLabelPro.
I bought an infrared bar code scanner complete with the Macintosh
downloading software from the Videx corporation. I have a couple of Mac
LCIII's in the stockroom itself for students to do data input and I can
even download bar code scans from my office Mac by using program linking
through appletalk from the Mac by the checkout window that is interfaced
to the scanner. All the Macs are etherneted also. I also have all my
inventory on my web page at http://www.cst.cmich.edu/users/StockJ so
anyone on campus or even you can accesss my inventory.I have included
several screen snapshots as enclosures.
--Emailer_-1299955325
Content-Type: application/mac-binhex40; name="Picture 7.SIT.hqx"

Attachment Converted: "c:\winnet\eudora\linda\attach\Picture 7.SIT"
--Emailer_-1299955325--
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:33:37 -0500
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Inventory Software
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

We too, use the File Maker Pro software. I can't say enough about the ease of use and flexibility we have found with this program. We have been using it since it was File Maker Pro 2.0, close to 5 years now.

For what its worth, Janeen.

*****************
Janeen Lapierre, CHO
College of Osteopathic Medicine
University of New England
11 Hills Beach Road
Biddeford, ME 04005

E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU
Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446
Opinions are mine and not those of UNE.

>>> "L. James Stock III" <34EMQ6K@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> - 11/25/98 3:59 AM >>>
Very interesting as my current inventory is 2,253 different chemicals. I
have created a wonderful inventory system in my chemistry stockroom using
my Macintosh PowerPC 7600 and the delightful database program
FileMakerPro 4.0
I use BarCodePro to generate Code 3 of 9 bar codes and create Avery 5160
laser labels using MacLabelPro.
I bought an infrared bar code scanner complete with the Macintosh
downloading software from the Videx corporation. I have a couple of Mac
LCIII's in the stockroom itself for students to do data input and I can
even download bar code scans from my office Mac by using program linking
through appletalk from the Mac by the checkout window that is interfaced
to the scanner. All the Macs are etherneted also. I also have all my
inventory on my web page at http://www.cst.cmich.edu/users/StockJ so
anyone on campus or even you can accesss my inventory.I have included
several screen snapshots as enclosures.
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:16:29 -0600
From: Wanda Clarke <wclarke@OPS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Inventory Software
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE1854.4CB67CE0"

------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1854.4CB67CE0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mark,
We have been using the Flinn Scientific program, Chemventory, =
compatible either with a PC or Mac. We use it at all of our schools, =
and have found it to be very useful. It provides MSDS information on =
all the chemicals and has a reordering function which is quite helpful.=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Smith [SMTP:smithme@MERCURY.HENDRIX.EDU]
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 3:16 AM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Inventory Software

Can anyone recommend a chemical inventory software for Mac based =
systems?

We are working with a 2300 chemical volume in an academic lab =
environment.

Thanks!

ms

***************************************
MARK SMITH
HENDRIX COLLEGE CHEMISTRY
LABORATORY COORDINATOR
CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER NRCC-CHO
***************************************
1600 Washington Ave
Conway, AR 72032
501-450-3812
Fax : 501-450-3829
***************************************

==============================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:12:17 -0800
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: [SAFETY] NEWSafety 99 Web Site
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

FYI
Deb.

>
>The tentative program for NEWSafety '99 is posted on the web. We know
>there will be a couple of add-ons to the conference program shortly. To
>register follow the link and print and mail the registration form. I look
>forward to seeing you in Hartford in January.
>
>http://www2.trincoll.edu/~ghall/NEWSafetyConf.htm
>
>Gail Hall
>
>Gail Hall
>Biology Department
>Trinity College - LSC *ph: 860-297-2227
>300 Summit St. *fax: 860-297-2538
>Hartford, CT 06106 *email: Gail.Hall@mail.trincoll.edu
>http://shakti.cc.trincoll.edu/~ghall/
>
>
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:44:34 -0500
From: John Juhala <JuhalaJ@STATE.MI.US>
Subject: Re: Inventory Software
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I've recently signed onto this list and caught the information regarding inventory software, FileMakerPro. Is this software available for Windows based computers? If not, what software are people using on these machines? We are working on getting the chemical inventory in all 7 of our laboratories into a computer based system and would rather not reinvent the wheel.
John Juhala
Assistant Division Commander
Forensic Science Division
Michigan State Police
East Lansing, MI 48823
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:06:35 -0500
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: Inventory Software
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

We use Chem. Inventory. windows based, fairly user friendly. Not perfect
though.

"Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!"

Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
RUETGERS Organics Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
-----Original Message-----
From: John Juhala <JuhalaJ@STATE.MI.US>
To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu <LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 14:58
Subject: Re: Inventory Software

>I've recently signed onto this list and caught the information regarding
inventory software, FileMakerPro. Is this software available for Windows
based computers? If not, what software are people using on these machines?
We are working on getting the chemical inventory in all 7 of our
laboratories into a computer based system and would rather not reinvent the
wheel.
>John Juhala
>Assistant Division Commander
>Forensic Science Division
>Michigan State Police
>East Lansing, MI 48823
>
>
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:06:00 -0500
From: "Tayman, Tammy" <ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US>
Subject: Re: Inventory Software
Comments: To: John Juhala <JuhalaJ@STATE.MI.US>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

I plan on spending a significant portion on my Thanksgiving and Winter
breaks (I work at a college) setting up a database under MS Acess. I have a
barcode reader that is compatible with it, I just have to set up the basics.

Tammy Tayman
Montgomery College
----------
From: John Juhala
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: Inventory Software
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 2:44PM

I've recently signed onto this list and caught the information regarding
inventory software, FileMakerPro. Is this software available for Windows
based computers? If not, what software are people using on these machines?
We are working on getting the chemical inventory in all 7 of our
laboratories into a computer based system and would rather not reinvent the
wheel.
John Juhala
Assistant Division Commander
Forensic Science Division
Michigan State Police
East Lansing, MI 48823
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:19:08 -0600
From: Wanda Clarke <wclarke@OPS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Inventory Software
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE187E.9317A9A0"

------ =_NextPart_000_01BE187E.9317A9A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mark,
We have been using the Flinn Scientific program, Chemventory, =
compatible either with a PC or Mac. We use it at all of our schools, =
and have found it to be very useful. It provides MSDS information on =
all the chemicals and has a reordering function which is quite helpful.=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Smith [SMTP:smithme@MERCURY.HENDRIX.EDU]
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 3:16 AM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Inventory Software

Can anyone recommend a chemical inventory software for Mac based =
systems?

We are working with a 2300 chemical volume in an academic lab =
environment.

Thanks!

ms

***************************************
MARK SMITH
HENDRIX COLLEGE CHEMISTRY
LABORATORY COORDINATOR
CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER NRCC-CHO
***************************************
1600 Washington Ave
Conway, AR 72032
501-450-3812
Fax : 501-450-3829
***************************************

------ =_NextPart_000_01BE187E.9317A9A0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

==============================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:28:03 -0800
From: "Nadine Grady, CIH" <ngrady@WHITWORTH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Inventory Software
In-Reply-To: <199811252011.OAA47748@saluki-mailsmtp.siu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

We used Microsoft Excel initially, for ease of sorting and repetitive data
entry (we have 6,640 containers of 3,300+ different chemicals). I'm still
working with our inventory in Excel, and find it very easy to use. Later
this year our Computing Services staff are going to convert it to a
Microsoft Access database, and set up user-friendly screens for searching
and data maintenance. They have barcoding equipment available that is
compatible with Access, and it looks like we can work out a schedule that
will allow us to share its use.

Nadine B. Grady, MS, RS, CIH
Chemical Hygiene Officer
Whitworth College
300 W. Hawthorne Rd.
Spokane, WA 99251-3903
phone (509) 777-4510
fax (509) 777-3221
ngrady@whitworth.edu
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:03:50 -0500
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Inventory Software
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

File Maker is PC compatible. That's one reason it was selected. We have to support both platforms here. I have found it very easy to transfer info from either platform to the other. Formatting is the same and commands are very similar. I can sit down at either a PC or Mac and access the data base and work with it.

For what its worth, Janeen.

*****************
Janeen Lapierre, CHO
College of Osteopathic Medicine
University of New England
11 Hills Beach Road
Biddeford, ME 04005

E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU
Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446
Opinions are mine and not those of UNE.

>>> John Juhala <JuhalaJ@STATE.MI.US> - 11/25/98 2:44 PM >>>
I've recently signed onto this list and caught the information regarding inventory software, FileMakerPro. Is this software available for Windows based computers? If not, what software are people using on these machines? We are working on getting the chemical inventory in all 7 of our laboratories into a computer based system and would rather not reinvent the wheel.
John Juhala
Assistant Division Commander
Forensic Science Division
Michigan State Police
East Lansing, MI 48823
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:37:14 EST
From: DougCody@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Inventory Software
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Can File Maker Pro import or allow conversion of a MS Access Database and vice
versa?

Douglas S. Cody, MA, CSP
Nassau Community College
Chemistry Department
1 Education Drive
Garden City, NY 11530
516-572-7986
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:27:42 +0930
From: Stephen Thomas <sthomas@REGISTRY.ADELAIDE.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re[2]: Inventory Software
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have not done it myself, but according to our database guru it
can be done.

Regards,

Stephen

\\\\
(oo)
--oo00--00oo--*******************************************************
Stephen Thomas
Senior OH&S Adviser
University of Adelaide,
Human Resources, OH&S Unit,
ADELAIDE, South Australia, 5005
Voice: +61 8 8303 5904
Fax: +61 8 8303 4353
email: sthomas@registry.adelaide.edu.au
Internet: http://www.adelaide.edu.au/HR/OH&S/
*********************************************************************

______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Inventory Software
Author: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU> at
~INTERNET
Date: 11/26/98 9:11 AM

Can File Maker Pro import or allow conversion of a MS Access
Database and vice versa?

Douglas S. Cody, MA, CSP
Nassau Community College
Chemistry Department
1 Education Drive
Garden City, NY 11530
516-572-7986
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:15:11 EST
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Fwd: Safe-NZ: Decontamination
Mime-Version: 1.0
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 09:28:04 -0800
To: safe-nz@niwa.cri.nz
From: "Amies, Jonathan Hassall" <ajonathan@cuhk.edu.hk>
Subject: Safe-NZ: Decontamination
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>
>When formaldehyde fumigations are done on biosafety cabinets chlorine and
hypochlorite should be removed as reaction with the formaldehyde forms a
carcinogen?!
>
>I am unable to find information as to whether there is an analogous
situation for glutaraldehyde. I know of one or two organisations who have
fumigated with glutaraldehyde but this question is aimed more in the
direction of clinical settings where there are possibilites the that two
[that is hypochlorite and glutraldehyde solutions] may be used in close
proximity. {and taking into account that gluteraldehyde vapour release is
undesirable and has a low TLV]
>
>Any ideas of thoughts are most welcome
>
>Jonathan Amies
>
Jonathan ( Jon ) Amies
Chief Laboratory Safety Officer & Safety Manager
The Chinese University of Hong Kong
Shatin N T Hong Kong

Ph. (852) 26097866, Fax (852) 26035387

---
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--part0_912165311_boundary--
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:38:16 EST
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: NACHO Meeting in Hartford
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

NACHO Members ....

There will be an informal meeting of NACHO members in
Hartford on the evening of Wednesday, January 6th from
6-9pm. The meeting will be held in conjunction with the
New Safety '99 Conference at Trinity College and celebrates
our one year anniversary. YEAH!

What would you like NACHO to do in its second year?

The exact location of the meeting will be announced here in
the next few weeks. Pizza, bevereges, and nachos will be
served (dutch treat). Please RSVP to me privately if you plan
to attend. ... Jim

*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education

The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.

The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSI.
Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG
**********************************************************************
==============================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 11:20:07 EST
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Methanol Cannon Accident
Comments: To: Safety <SAFETY@UVMVM.UVM.EDU>,
Safe-NZ@niwa.cri.nz, "Nat'l.al Assn. for Res. in Sci. Teaching"
<NARST-L@science.coe.uwf.edu>,
nsela-l@science.coe.uwf.edu, NAOSMM@LISTSERV.RICE.EDU,
dchas-l@SIU.EDU, chemlab_L@vax1.bemidji.msus.edu,
CHEMCOM@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU, biopi-l@sku.edu,
APCHEM-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU,
"Assoc. for the Educ. of Teachers in Sci."
<AETS-L@science.coe.uwf.edu>, AERA-K@ASUM.INRE.ASU.EDU
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Recently, there was a serious accident at a high school in
California. The posting on the CHEMED discussion are
below.

Does anyone have any more information on what went
wrong?

If anyone gets the newspaper articles, I would appreciate
receiving copies.

LSI will be conducting seminars in Hartford the first week
of January, throughout Florida in January and February and
in California in March. ... jim

*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education

The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.

The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSI.
Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG
**********************************************************************

METHANOL CANNON ACCIDENT FILE......

Subj: CHEMED-L digest 867
Date: 98-11-29 04:31:42 EST
From: chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu
Sender: owner-chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu
To: chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu (Chemistry Education Discussion List)

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:04:30 +0000
From: wlee <wlee@lausd.k12.ca.us>
To: chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu
Subject: Methanol Cannon Accident

We just had a tragic science activity accident last Wednesday at one of
the local high schools. A physics class was conducting velocity
measurements on tennis balls launched from two methanol powered cannons
on the P.E. field. An explosion and fire occured at one of the cannons
badly burning two students. Both students are hospitalized, one with
second and third degree burns over 50% of his body. The more severly
burned student, who was holding the cannon at the time of explosion,
also has damage to his lungs from the inhalation of super heated gas,
and according to reports from the attending physican his survival will
be "touch and go". The teacher had split the class of 35 students into
two groups and was working with the other group when the explosion
occurred.
The cannon was contructed by soldering two juice cans together with a
metal disc between, perforated by button size holes. Metanol in the
lower can was ignited through a hole in the bottom can exploding through
the holes into the upper can where the tennis ball was lodged.
According to witnesses, students were disappointed at how little
distance the balls flew, and were adding more and more methanol from a
one gallon container, in an effort to hurl the ball further. According
to officals at the high school, this was a standard experiment, which
physic classes had been conducting for several years. I have never
heard of this activity and from what I have read in the newspaper it
appears to have a number of safety problems. Is anyone on the list
familiar with an alcohol powered cannon activity? Any comments?

Bill Lee wlee@lausd.k12.ca.us, Science Department Chairperson
Chemical Safety Hazard Coordinator,
Granada Hills HS voice (818) 360-2361 x405
10535 Zelzah Ave. FAX (818) 363-9504
Granada Hills CA 91344

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:55:27 PST
From: "Brian Becker" <cejla_elf@hotmail.com>
To: chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu
Subject: Re: Methanol Cannon Accident

I know of a couple of High schools that do this activity with the
physics class, but the teacher is always the one who ignites the cannon,
and the are alwas set off on the ground woth no one holding it.

Brian J. Becker, email: cejla_elf@hotmail.com
home page: http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/2349

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 14:00:01 -0700
From: "Jeffrey J. Ayres" <jayres@ycpo.yavapai.cc.az.us>
To: chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu
Subject: Re: Methanol Cannon Accident

Chemed-l,
Projectiles should never be allowed in a school setting unless it is a
Military installation. Even the firing of Estes rockets is not allowed in
most schools. The use of juice cans as a barrel is outrageous. The ATF of
the federal government will probably issuing warrants in conjunction with
lawsuits from the parents of the children involved. Many fireworks
ordinances were broken. The only people who can lawfully ignite explosives
are licensed. The URL of the California regulations was posted a month or
so ago, it was very explicit. Students undergo enough fright in the
science classroom, incidents such as this make it even more difficult for
them to sign up for science. My sympathies to the families involved.

Jeff Ayres

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:19:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Tom Kenney <tkenney@umd5.umd.edu>
To: chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu
Subject: Re: Methanol Cannon Accident

On Sat, 28 Nov 1998, wlee wrote:

> We just had a tragic science activity accident last Wednesday at one of
> the local high schools....(snip)

The only time I've seen this done was at a Demo Day for chemistry
teachers. The "cannon" was the bulb from a turkey baster, ignition was by
an inserted flint and wheel, the projectile was a ping-pong ball, and the
methanol was measured out in drops.

Deepest sympathies to all the affected people.

Tom Kenney e-mail: tkenney@umd5.umd.edu
s-mail: Chemistry Department
Montgomery College
Rockville, MD 20850

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:50:03 -0600
From: Rick_Strickert@radian.com
To: chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu
Subject: RE: Methanol Cannon Accident

The construction, use, and precautions for different "methanol cannons" are
described in a number of books on demonstrations, including: The Dick and
Rae Physics Demo Handbook (D. Rae Carpenter, Jr. and Richard B. Minnix,
Virginia Military Institute, DICK and RAE, Inc., Lexington Virginia, 1993,
p. M-562), Chemical Magic from the Grocery Store (Andy Sae, Chemistry
Department, Eastern New Mexico State University, Portales, NM, 1991,
p.30-31), and Chemical Demonstrations: A Sourcebook for Teachers (Lee R.
Summerlin and James L. Ealy, Jr., American Chemical Society, 1985, p.170;
also in the 2nd Edition (1988), Volume I, p. 25).

The injuries to the students are tragic examples of what I consider a
MISUSE of the methanol cannon, an educational and entertaining classroom
chemistry demonstration that I've used many times. There are several
problems I saw from information provided in Bill Lee's post:

1. High school students should NOT be permitted to operate or hold
explosive devices in laboratory class experiments.

2. The methanol cannon is ill-suited for repetitively (or
reproductively) "conducting velocity measurements on tennis balls launched
from methanol powered cannons."

3. Only a few drops of methanol are needed for the cannon demo;
having a gallon container of methanol available for two (or 200!) cannons is
totally unwarranted.

4. There is the clear danger from the temptation to increase the
tennis ball velocity (physics students would not be very tempted in trying
to decrease the velocity) by inappropriately increasing the amount of
methanol.

5. One instructor is not adequate for 35 students involved in the pouring
and igniting of a flammable liquid.

6. Even in a normal demo, not all of the methanol is usually burned
(Summerlin and Ealy noted this; I can confirm it from my experience);
repetitive use of the cannon without cleaning out the residue may result in
leaking of burning methanol from the ignitor hole (I can also confirm this
from experience.)

When used by a demonstrator, the cannon is held at a distance from students
and pointed away or over the heads of the students. I also use a small Nerf
ball instead of a tennis ball.

Fire and explosive demonstrations can serve a good purpose for a chemistry
or physics class, but only if the demonstration is performed by a person who
is familiar with the hazards and takes the obvious precautions to protect
the students from possible accidents involving the use and misuse of such
demos.

My prayers go with the injured students and their families.

Rick Strickert, Ph.D., Radian International
Austin, TX rick_strickert@radian.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:56:45 -0600
From: Rick_Strickert@radian.com
To: chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu
Subject: RE: Methanol Cannon Accident

More on the accident is in the Saturday edition of the San Fernando Valley
news section of the LA Times available at:
http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/VALLEY/t000108676.html
<http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/VALLEY/t000108676.html>

------------------------------
==============================================================
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:49:33 EST
From: Hal Grunenwald <HALN2SSS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Methanol Cannon Accident
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I have performed the alcohol cannon with my Physics students. It is only
conjecture since I wasn't there that either a massive amount of methanol was
used or more likely the container (gallon jug) of methanol was left open and
was touched off when the cannon went off. People are burned severely every
year when they don't close and remove the lighter fluid when they try to light
the barbeque and the flames follow the fume trail back to the open fluid
container. The cans making up the cannon must be reinforced beyond just
soldering due to the high heat. It is a common demonstration in Central NY. In
fact it was presented at an AAPT (American Association of Physics Teachers)
workshop. I would never let students do it alone as the temperatures are
incredible, the flame is colorless and the speed of the projectile can be very
great. The students love the demo (probably because of the apparent danger
which really is non-existant if common sense is used. It is also called the
tennis-ball-morter.
Hal Grunenwald
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 06:59:51 EST
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: CHEMED-L digest 868
Comments: To: chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu
Comments: cc: PHYSHARE@PSUVM.PSU.EDU, Safety <SAFETY@UVMVM.UVM.EDU>,
Safe-NZ@niwa.cri.nz, nsela-l@science.coe.uwf.edu,
NAOSMM@LISTSERV.RICE.EDU, dchas-l@SIU.EDU,
chemlab_L@vax1.bemidji.msus.edu, CHEMCOM@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-11-30 04:42:54 EST, you write:

<< This attitude is the reason most chemistry is taught out of a book !

>Chemed-l,
>Projectiles should never be allowed in a school setting unless it is a
>Military installation. Even the firing of Estes rockets is not allowed in
>most schools. The use of juice cans as a barrel is outrageous. The ATF of
>the federal government will probably issuing warrants in conjunction with
>lawsuits from the parents of the children involved. Many fireworks
>ordinances were broken. The only people who can lawfully ignite explosives
>are licensed. The URL of the California regulations was posted a month or
>so ago, it was very explicit. Students undergo enough fright in the
>science classroom, incidents such as this make it even more difficult for
>them to sign up for science. My sympathies to the families involved.
>
>Jeff Ayres >

> What in the World ISN'T CHEMISTRY !!
> ..... paul st.louis, chair of chemistry >>

Yes, everything may be chemistry. So that includes tolerance, respect for
others opinions, and even safety.

Lowrence, in "Of Acceptable Risk", say safety is a judgement about the
acceptability of risk.

Teaching, Learning and Practicing Science Safely means being responsible for
first answering four simple questions before you do the experiment,
demonstration, or activity.

1. What are the hazards?
2. What are the worst things that could happen?
3. What will you do if any of those worst things do happen?
4. What are the protective equipment, protective facilities, and prudent
practices needed to make the risk acceptable?

Do more experiments, demonstration, and hands-on activities. By answering the
four questions first, it will help to insure that the pedagogical benefits
outweigh the risks. Perhaps then the accident rate in schools and colleges
won't be 100-1000 greater than places like Dow and DuPont. .... jim

*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education

The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.

The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSI.
Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG
**********************************************************************
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:58:13 -0500
From: Madelyn Miller <mmiller@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Inventory Software
In-Reply-To: <s65bcdbc.029@mailbox.une.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Greetings All,
Just a little heads up File maker Pro is not year 2000 compliant and
may have major problems in the near future. We have been encouraged to
switch all our FMP data bases to Access.
Madelyn

----------------------
Madelyn Miller
Chemical Hygiene Officer, CCHO
Environmental Health & Safety
Carnegie Mellon University
mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:37:42 -0800
From: Timettra Wellington <sttwelli@JASPER.UOR.EDU>
Organization: University of Redlands
Subject: Re: Methanol Cannon Accident
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Does anyone have or know where I can get the protocol for this demo? I think I
know some folks who might be interested in it where I am (University of Redlands,
So. Cal)

Thanks in advance,

Timettra Wellington
Science Lab Tech

--------------846836CA93896131D278D427
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begin: vcard
fn: Timettra Wellington
n: Wellington;Timettra
org: University of Redlands
adr;dom: Chemistry Department;;1200 E Colton Ave.;Redlands;CA;92374;
email;internet: sttwelli@uor.edu
title: Science Lab Technician
tel;work: 909-793-2121 x2380
x-mozilla-cpt: ;0
x-mozilla-html: TRUE
version: 2.1
end: vcard

--------------846836CA93896131D278D427--
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:44:27 -0500
From: David Michael Coons <coonsdm@MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Chem Inventory and Filemaker
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 Madelyn wrote:

>Just a little heads up File maker Pro is not year 2000 compliant and
>may have major problems in the near future. We have been encouraged to
>switch all our FMP data bases to Access.

Our Tech Services Rep in the office tells me that this is incorrect. I
suggest that this statement be verified by your respective computer
guru and study the limitations of Access versus the more relational
Filemaker as well as the total rewrite of program relationships that
will be required if you switch. My statement is based on the two
latest Filemaker releases.

While I'm posting...
We have our chem inventory on Filemaker and is made available to users
via office server. It allows for a global search and, by passcode, user
specific maintenance of the inventory. Waste database is a separate
file also in Filemaker. You may access the inventory for review at
http:/www.ehs.muohio.edu.

dmc
------------------------------------------------
Mike Coons, Environmental Health and Safety Offices
phone...... 529-2829 fax......... 529-2830

Never be ashamed to admit your mistakes, nor try to
swim against the current. Ecclesiasticus 4:26
------------------------------------------------
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:04:24 -0500
From: "Thomas J. Shelley" <tjs1@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Inventory Software
In-Reply-To: <SIMEON.9811301013.B@miller-pc.PC.CC.CMU.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

>Greetings All,

>Just a little heads up File maker Pro is not year 2000 compliant and

>may have major problems in the near future. We have been encouraged
to

>switch all our FMP data bases to Access.

Dear Madelyn and Colleagues--This information isn't completely
complete. The

following is from the FM Web site:

http://www.filemaker.com/about/year2000.html

It appears that FM will be as compliant as your OS. On the Mac, side,
which

has <italic>always</italic> been compliant (Poor Windows Users ;-))
FM is good through

the year 3000. If your OS is not Y2K compliant, you may have
problems.

But the Y2K problem will be with the OS, not with FileMaker! Tom

**********************************************************

Tom Shelley, Chemical Hygiene Officer, Cornell University,

Department of Environmental Health and Safety, 125 Humphreys Service
Building,

Ithaca, NY 14853. (607) 255-4288 tjs1@cornell.edu

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ DISCLAIMER @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

The comments and views expressed in this communication are strictly my
own and

are not to be construed to officially represent those of my peers,
supervisors or

Cornell University.
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:16:21 -0500
From: Madelyn Miller <mmiller@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Inventory Software
In-Reply-To: <v03110711b288a9c9e4d7@[132.236.19.24]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Greetings All,

I stand corrected. We have an older version of Filemaker Pro that the
university will not update nor support. We went with Access. I was
told FMP was not Y2K compliant which is true here, but only because we
have an older version. Alas. Sorry in so many ways. I truly love
FMP.
Madelyn

----------------------
Madelyn Miller
Chemical Hygiene Officer, CCHO
Environmental Health & Safety
Carnegie Mellon University
mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:09:34 EST
From: Martin Besant <MBesant@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 27 Nov 1998 to 29 Nov 1998
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Dear Group
Not sure how useful this info will be
We use a PETE juice bottle (approx 2 L) with 2 nails perforating opposite
sides acting as a spark gap.
About 2 mL of methanol, swirled provides the fuel. A large cork is the
projectile, a Tesla coil provides the spark across the gap.
Cork travels about fifty feeet with accomp. noise, light and heat. Bottle is
frequently wrenched from clamp or ringstand is displaced (knocked over). Heat
distorts (melts is an in appropriate term for PETE since plastic does not
soften but simply shrinks) plastic.
Not possible to repeat demo immediately due to accumulated CO2 in bottle
Rookie teacher attempeted to copy the "vets" without asking advice. Used about
25 mL. Ignition failed on initial attempt, then resulted in invisible fire
which melted (this time an appropriate term) Which destroyed the bottle
Marty Besant
West Seneca East Sr HS
A suburb of Buffalo NY where the lake is warm and the cold air must arrive
soon = SNOW