========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:33:15 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Neal Langerman Subject: Reminder: Respirator Standard Comments: To: occ-med-l@dudley.mc.duke.edu, SAFETY@LIST.UVM.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A reminder to everyone with applicable responsibility: The revised OSHA Respiratory Standard 29 CFR 1910.134, becomes fully effective in approximately five weeks. Now is the time to come into compliance. If you have not updated your Written Plan to reflect the new procedures, you might consider help from the prototype we have available. Visit http://www.chemical-safety.com and go to the REGULATORY DOCUMENTS link to get more information. If you have specific questions about compliance, email me privately and I'll try to help. Neal ************************************************************* NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY 8909 Complex Drive San Diego CA 92123-1418 619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX) 619 990 4908 (cellular) visit our homepage: http://www.chemical-safety.com ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:17:54 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Debbie Decker Subject: Cobalt Poisoning Comments: To: mwcf@aecom.yu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm posting this on behalf of a friend, in hopes that someone out there might have some thoughts or ideas. "He is 26 and has been working in a saw sharpening shop - sharpening carbide saws. There was no way to contain the dust. The shop has since been cited by CalOSHA. "About a year or so ago he was having breathing problems. He thought it was just an infection and went to the doctor. Doctor tested - could not determine problem. Said lungs were getting webbing - had never seen anything like it. Bert felt a little better with antibiotics and continued working. It got worse - in the meantime he got REALLY MEAN (one of the symptoms of this type of poisoning) and wife divorces him. Enter math tutoring sessions with divorced friend. She pursues the question of his illness and contacts the Poison Center in Georgia. Sure enough they find out he has cobalt poisoning and his lungs are slowly becoming one big cell incapable of providing enough oxygen to keep him alive. "Last week his doctor said there is no hope for recovery and even with a lung transplant his prognosis is not good - terminal." If you have information or ideas, please pass them along to me privately. If there's interest, I can post a summary. Thanking you all in advance, Debbie Debbie Decker EH&S UCDavis (530)754-7964 dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:50:42 +1000 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Barry Searle Subject: Re: Cobalt Poisoning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Deb, It is really sad news. It is quite amazing that some companies can subject workers (who may have no knowledge of health aspects and are never told by management) to potential fatal health problems for the sake of the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ My view only Barry EM UNIT UNSW -----Original Message----- From: Debbie Decker To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Date: Wednesday, 2 September 1998 9:09 Subject: Cobalt Poisoning >I'm posting this on behalf of a friend, in hopes that someone out there >might have some thoughts or ideas. > >"He is 26 and has been working in a saw sharpening shop - sharpening >carbide saws. There was no way to contain the dust. The shop has >since been cited by CalOSHA. > >"About a year or so ago he was having breathing problems. He thought >it was just an infection and went to the doctor. Doctor tested - >could not determine problem. Said lungs were getting webbing - had >never seen anything like it. Bert felt a little better with >antibiotics and continued working. It got worse - in the meantime he >got REALLY MEAN (one of the symptoms of this type of poisoning) and >wife divorces him. Enter math tutoring sessions with divorced >friend. She pursues the question of his illness and contacts the >Poison Center in Georgia. Sure enough they find out he has cobalt >poisoning and his lungs are slowly becoming one big cell incapable of >providing enough oxygen to keep him alive. > >"Last week his doctor said there is no hope for recovery and even >with a lung transplant his prognosis is not good - terminal." > >If you have information or ideas, please pass them along to me privately. >If there's interest, I can post a summary. > >Thanking you all in advance, >Debbie > > >Debbie Decker >EH&S UCDavis >(530)754-7964 >dmdecker@ucdavis.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:24:21 -0300 Reply-To: damar@wkve.com.br Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Damaris Silveira Duarte Subject: berilium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear colleagues, We have two oven from a former research project that had been used to dry berilium carbonate. As we need buy ovens to dry plants, I was thinking about use them. So, my questions are: a) Can they be cleaned using some acid solution (e.g. vinagger) and so, lots of water? b) As the plants to be dried are medicinal plants, after cleaned (if it is possible) can we use them safely? Dâmaris Silveira Duarte Centro de Ciências Exatas e Tecnológicas -CECET Universidade Vale do Rio Doce - UNIVALE rua Moreira Sales, 850, Vila Bretas Governador Valadares -Minas Gerais - Brasil CEP 35032-130 Tel: 55 033 2213090 ext.313 Fax: 55 033 2213185 e-mail: damaris@mail.univale.br damar@wkve.com.br lychnos@dedalus.lcc.ufmg.br ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:33:18 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Kathryn Makos Subject: berilium -Reply Comments: To: damar@wkve.com.br Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I posed your questions to a CIH involved with beryllium exposure control = programs at the US Dept. of Energy, and he noted that the precautions that = would have to be taken to safely decontaminate beryllium-coated surfaces = (procedures and employee protection), and the sampling involved to = demonstrate that the ovens were indeed clean, are very expensive. Because = of that, the DOE generally does not decontaminate items for resale or = uncontrolled use that cost less than $50,000. He suspects it would be = cheaper for you to buy new ovens than to clean the contaminated ones. Kathryn Makos, CIH, MPH Smithsonian Institution Office of Environmental Management and Safety ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:45:02 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ben Owens Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 31 Aug 1998 to 1 Sep 1998 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Automatic digest processor wrote: > There are 4 messages totalling 177 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. Reminder: Respirator Standard > 2. Cobalt Poisoning (2) > 3. berilium > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:33:15 -0700 > From: Neal Langerman > Subject: Reminder: Respirator Standard > > A reminder to everyone with applicable responsibility: > > The revised OSHA Respiratory Standard 29 CFR 1910.134, becomes fully > effective in approximately five weeks. Now is the time to come into co= mpliance. > > If you have not updated your Written Plan to reflect the new procedures= , you > might consider help from the prototype we have available. > > Visit http://www.chemical-safety.com > > and go to the REGULATORY DOCUMENTS link to get more information. > > If you have specific questions about compliance, email me privately and= I'll > try to help. > > Neal > ************************************************************* > NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com > ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY > 8909 Complex Drive > San Diego CA 92123-1418 > > 619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX) > 619 990 4908 (cellular) > > visit our homepage: http://www.chemical-safety.com > > ************************************************************* > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:17:54 -0700 > From: Debbie Decker > Subject: Cobalt Poisoning > > I'm posting this on behalf of a friend, in hopes that someone out there > might have some thoughts or ideas. > > "He is 26 and has been working in a saw sharpening shop - sharpening > carbide saws. There was no way to contain the dust. The shop has > since been cited by CalOSHA. > > "About a year or so ago he was having breathing problems. He thought > it was just an infection and went to the doctor. Doctor tested - > could not determine problem. Said lungs were getting webbing - had > never seen anything like it. Bert felt a little better with > antibiotics and continued working. It got worse - in the meantime he > got REALLY MEAN (one of the symptoms of this type of poisoning) and > wife divorces him. Enter math tutoring sessions with divorced > friend. She pursues the question of his illness and contacts the > Poison Center in Georgia. Sure enough they find out he has cobalt > poisoning and his lungs are slowly becoming one big cell incapable of > providing enough oxygen to keep him alive. > > "Last week his doctor said there is no hope for recovery and even > with a lung transplant his prognosis is not good - terminal." > > If you have information or ideas, please pass them along to me privatel= y. > If there's interest, I can post a summary. > > Thanking you all in advance, > Debbie > > Debbie Decker > EH&S UCDavis > (530)754-7964 > dmdecker@ucdavis.edu > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:50:42 +1000 > From: Barry Searle > Subject: Re: Cobalt Poisoning > > Deb, > > It is really sad news. It is quite amazing that some companies can sub= ject > workers (who may have no knowledge of health aspects and are never told= by > management) to potential fatal health problems for the sake of the > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > > My view only > > Barry > EM UNIT > UNSW > > -----Original Message----- > From: Debbie Decker > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Date: Wednesday, 2 September 1998 9:09 > Subject: Cobalt Poisoning > > >I'm posting this on behalf of a friend, in hopes that someone out ther= e > >might have some thoughts or ideas. > > > >"He is 26 and has been working in a saw sharpening shop - sharpening > >carbide saws. There was no way to contain the dust. The shop has > >since been cited by CalOSHA. > > > >"About a year or so ago he was having breathing problems. He thought > >it was just an infection and went to the doctor. Doctor tested - > >could not determine problem. Said lungs were getting webbing - had > >never seen anything like it. Bert felt a little better with > >antibiotics and continued working. It got worse - in the meantime he > >got REALLY MEAN (one of the symptoms of this type of poisoning) and > >wife divorces him. Enter math tutoring sessions with divorced > >friend. She pursues the question of his illness and contacts the > >Poison Center in Georgia. Sure enough they find out he has cobalt > >poisoning and his lungs are slowly becoming one big cell incapable of > >providing enough oxygen to keep him alive. > > > >"Last week his doctor said there is no hope for recovery and even > >with a lung transplant his prognosis is not good - terminal." > > > >If you have information or ideas, please pass them along to me private= ly. > >If there's interest, I can post a summary. > > > >Thanking you all in advance, > >Debbie > > > > > >Debbie Decker > >EH&S UCDavis > >(530)754-7964 > >dmdecker@ucdavis.edu > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:24:21 -0300 > From: Damaris Silveira Duarte > Subject: berilium > > Dear colleagues, > > We have two oven from a former research project that had been used to d= ry > berilium carbonate. As we need buy ovens to dry plants, I was thinking > about use them. So, my questions are: > a) Can they be cleaned using some acid solution (e.g. vinagger) and so= , > lots of water? > b) As the plants to be dried are medicinal plants, after cleaned (if it= is > possible) can we use them safely? > > D=E2maris Silveira Duarte > Centro de Ci=EAncias Exatas e Tecnol=F3gicas -CECET > Universidade Vale do Rio Doce - UNIVALE > rua Moreira Sales, 850, Vila Bretas > Governador Valadares -Minas Gerais - Brasil > CEP 35032-130 > Tel: 55 033 2213090 ext.313 > Fax: 55 033 2213185 > e-mail: damaris@mail.univale.br > damar@wkve.com.br > lychnos@dedalus.lcc.ufmg.br > > ------------------------------ > > End of LABSAFETY-L Digest - 31 Aug 1998 to 1 Sep 1998 > ***************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 16:18:00 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Barbara J. Weaver" Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 31 Aug 1998 to Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I really appreciate the digest form. ---------- From: Ben Owens=5bSMTP:bowens=40UNR.EDU=5d Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 2:45 PM To: LABSAFETY-L=40SIU.EDU Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 31 Aug 1998 to 1 Sep 1998 Automatic digest processor wrote: =3e There are 4 messages totalling 177 lines in this issue. =3e =3e Topics of the day: =3e =3e 1. Reminder: Respirator Standard =3e 2. Cobalt Poisoning (2) =3e 3. berilium =3e =3e ---------------------------------------------------------------------- =3e =3e Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:33:15 -0700 =3e From: Neal Langerman =3cchemsaf=40IX.NETCOM.COM=3e =3e Subject: Reminder: Respirator Standard =3e =3e A reminder to everyone with applicable responsibility: =3e =3e The revised OSHA Respiratory Standard 29 CFR 1910.134, becomes fully =3e effective in approximately five weeks. Now is the time to come into = = compliance. =3e =3e If you have not updated your Written Plan to reflect the new = procedures, you =3e might consider help from the prototype we have available. =3e =3e Visit http://www.chemical-safety.com =3e =3e and go to the REGULATORY DOCUMENTS link to get more information. =3e =3e If you have specific questions about compliance, email me privately and= = I'll =3e try to help. =3e =3e Neal =3e =2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a= =2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a= =2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a =3e NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf=40ix.netcom.com =3e ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY =3e 8909 Complex Drive =3e San Diego CA 92123-1418 =3e =3e 619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX) =3e 619 990 4908 (cellular) =3e =3e visit our homepage: http://www.chemical-safety.com =3e =3e =2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a= =2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a= =2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a =3e =3e ------------------------------ =3e =3e Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:17:54 -0700 =3e From: Debbie Decker =3cdmdecker=40UCDAVIS.EDU=3e =3e Subject: Cobalt Poisoning =3e =3e I'm posting this on behalf of a friend, in hopes that someone out there= =3e might have some thoughts or ideas. =3e =3e =22He is 26 and has been working in a saw sharpening shop - sharpening =3e carbide saws. There was no way to contain the dust. The shop has =3e since been cited by CalOSHA. =3e =3e =22About a year or so ago he was having breathing problems. He thought= =3e it was just an infection and went to the doctor. Doctor tested - =3e could not determine problem. Said lungs were getting webbing - had =3e never seen anything like it. Bert felt a little better with =3e antibiotics and continued working. It got worse - in the meantime he =3e got REALLY MEAN (one of the symptoms of this type of poisoning) and =3e wife divorces him. Enter math tutoring sessions with divorced =3e friend. She pursues the question of his illness and contacts the =3e Poison Center in Georgia. Sure enough they find out he has cobalt =3e poisoning and his lungs are slowly becoming one big cell incapable of =3e providing enough oxygen to keep him alive. =3e =3e =22Last week his doctor said there is no hope for recovery and even =3e with a lung transplant his prognosis is not good - terminal.=22 =3e =3e If you have information or ideas, please pass them along to me = privately. =3e If there's interest, I can post a summary. =3e =3e Thanking you all in advance, =3e Debbie =3e =3e Debbie Decker =3e EH=26S UCDavis =3e (530)754-7964 =3e dmdecker=40ucdavis.edu =3e =3e ------------------------------ =3e =3e Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:50:42 +1000 =3e From: Barry Searle =3cB.Searle=40UNSW.EDU.AU=3e =3e Subject: Re: Cobalt Poisoning =3e =3e Deb, =3e =3e It is really sad news. It is quite amazing that some companies can = subject =3e workers (who may have no knowledge of health aspects and are never told= = by =3e management) to potential fatal health problems for the sake of the =3e =24=24=24=24=24=24=24=24=24=24=24=24=24=24=24=24=24=24=24=24=24 =3e =3e My view only =3e =3e Barry =3e EM UNIT =3e UNSW =3e =3e -----Original Message----- =3e From: Debbie Decker =3cdmdecker=40UCDAVIS.EDU=3e =3e To: LABSAFETY-L=40SIU.EDU =3cLABSAFETY-L=40SIU.EDU=3e =3e Date: Wednesday, 2 September 1998 9:09 =3e Subject: Cobalt Poisoning =3e =3e =3eI'm posting this on behalf of a friend, in hopes that someone out = = there =3e =3emight have some thoughts or ideas. =3e =3e =3e =3e=22He is 26 and has been working in a saw sharpening shop - sharpeni= ng =3e =3ecarbide saws. There was no way to contain the dust. The shop has =3e =3esince been cited by CalOSHA. =3e =3e =3e =3e=22About a year or so ago he was having breathing problems. He thou= ght =3e =3eit was just an infection and went to the doctor. Doctor tested - =3e =3ecould not determine problem. Said lungs were getting webbing - had =3e =3enever seen anything like it. Bert felt a little better with =3e =3eantibiotics and continued working. It got worse - in the meantime h= e =3e =3egot REALLY MEAN (one of the symptoms of this type of poisoning) and =3e =3ewife divorces him. Enter math tutoring sessions with divorced =3e =3efriend. She pursues the question of his illness and contacts the =3e =3ePoison Center in Georgia. Sure enough they find out he has cobalt =3e =3epoisoning and his lungs are slowly becoming one big cell incapable o= f =3e =3eproviding enough oxygen to keep him alive. =3e =3e =3e =3e=22Last week his doctor said there is no hope for recovery and even= =3e =3ewith a lung transplant his prognosis is not good - terminal.=22 =3e =3e =3e =3eIf you have information or ideas, please pass them along to me = privately. =3e =3eIf there's interest, I can post a summary. =3e =3e =3e =3eThanking you all in advance, =3e =3eDebbie =3e =3e =3e =3e =3e =3eDebbie Decker =3e =3eEH=26S UCDavis =3e =3e(530)754-7964 =3e =3edmdecker=40ucdavis.edu =3e =3e =3e =3e ------------------------------ =3e =3e Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:24:21 -0300 =3e From: Damaris Silveira Duarte =3cdamar=40WKVE.COM.BR=3e =3e Subject: berilium =3e =3e Dear colleagues, =3e =3e We have two oven from a former research project that had been used to = = dry =3e berilium carbonate. As we need buy ovens to dry plants, I was thinking= =3e about use them. So, my questions are: =3e a) Can they be cleaned using some acid solution (e.g. vinagger) and = = so, =3e lots of water? =3e b) As the plants to be dried are medicinal plants, after cleaned (if it= = is =3e possible) can we use them safely? =3e =3e D=e2maris Silveira Duarte =3e Centro de Ci=eancias Exatas e Tecnol=f3gicas -CECET =3e Universidade Vale do Rio Doce - UNIVALE =3e rua Moreira Sales, 850, Vila Bretas =3e Governador Valadares -Minas Gerais - Brasil =3e CEP 35032-130 =3e Tel: 55 033 2213090 ext.313 =3e Fax: 55 033 2213185 =3e e-mail: damaris=40mail.univale.br =3e damar=40wkve.com.br =3e lychnos=40dedalus.lcc.ufmg.br =3e =3e ------------------------------ =3e =3e End of LABSAFETY-L Digest - 31 Aug 1998 to 1 Sep 1998 =3e =2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a= =2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a=2a= =2a=2a=2a=2a ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:09:06 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: EHS class In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings, My EHS class is up to 11, which is more than twice what I expected. Here's your chance to demonstrate your creativity. A significant part (30%) of each student's grade will be a project relating to Lab safety, although I'll accept a broad range of topics. Project includes a paper and verbal presentation to the class. Any project suggestions out there? I'm not going to assign any topics, but thought having a few might be handy. I have a few possibilities: how Y2K will affect safety; PPE/chemical compatibility; behavioral aspects of safety; current biosafety issues; waste management issues; chemical substitution. I welcome your suggestions; if you respond to me off-line I'll post a compendium of ideas on the list (with your name if you so desire). By the way, thanks to all (25-30) who expressed interest in the class - I did not expect anywhere near that type of response. Thanks, JNR Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS College of Natural Sciences G2500 W.C. Hogg Building University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712-1199 (512) 471-6176 (O) (512) 471-4998 (F) jrubin@mail.utexas.edu "The opinions of Dr. Rubin do not necessarily represent those of the Canadian government, with whom he has no affiliation." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:22:38 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Branson Lawrence Subject: unsubscribe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" unsubsribe Branson D. Lawrence, Jr Illinois Math and Science Academy 1500 W. Sullivan Rd. Aurora, IL 60506-1000 branson@imsa.edu http://www.imsa.edu/~branson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:51:33 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Naomi Kelly Subject: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES CONTAINING HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Advice needed: 0.5ml of a 50:50 mixture of hexane and methyl-tert Butyl Ether; these are sealed in glass vials (100-150) with a silicone septum by a cripper and ready for GC analysis. This question has been posed to me by one of the Agronomy Dept. researchers. Apparently, they have been shipping these by air for some time to other universities which are part of a cooperative research project. They have had no problems until the last shipment. When it was received, the researcher who received the shipment noted a strong hexane odor, and upon opening the package found that some of the vials appeared to have exploded while others seemed to have imploded. Pressurization problems on the plane? Obviously, this was a lot of work lost and, they are quite concerned about having this occur again. The material was packed in "blue" ice, but they had nothing on the package to indicate a flammability hazard. The researcher asked me what I thought about filing a claim against the shipper. I, of course, advised against this since they did not have the package properly labeled as to the hazard. When checking with the Hazardous Materials Support Center for the shipper about appropriate packaging, they suggested contacting the manufacturer. Well, since we are the "manufacturer", that does not help. Does anyone have experience or a suggestion about proper packaging and labeling of this material so that we can avoid losing valuable research and avoiding liability issues for not having listed the hazards? Are there exemptions for quantities, etc. as far as labeling? All responses welcome! Naomi Kelly Environmental Health and Safety nkelly@clemson.edu (864) 656 - 7554 Fax: (864) 656 - 7630 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:04:40 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES CONTAINING HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My understanding is that shipments must meet the requirments of Haz. Com. even if it is R&D material. I guess I think you should not be doing what you are doing! Sorry! "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation 201 Struble Road State College, PA 16801 phone 814-231-9214 fax 814-238-1567 email rburns@bigfoot.com -----Original Message----- From: Naomi Kelly To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 09:54 Subject: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES CONTAINING HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS >Advice needed: >0.5ml of a 50:50 mixture of hexane and methyl-tert Butyl Ether; these are >sealed in glass vials (100-150) with a silicone septum by a cripper and >ready for GC analysis. This question has been posed to me by one of the >Agronomy Dept. researchers. Apparently, they have been shipping these by >air for some time to other universities which are part of a cooperative >research project. They have had no problems until the last shipment. When >it was received, the researcher who received the shipment noted a strong >hexane odor, and upon opening the package found that some of the vials >appeared to have exploded while others seemed to have imploded. >Pressurization problems on the plane? Obviously, this was a lot of work >lost and, they are quite concerned about having this occur again. The >material was packed in "blue" ice, but they had nothing on the package to >indicate a flammability hazard. The researcher asked me what I thought >about filing a claim against the shipper. I, of course, advised against >this since they did not have the package properly labeled as to the hazard. > >When checking with the Hazardous Materials Support Center for the shipper >about appropriate packaging, they suggested contacting the manufacturer. >Well, since we are the "manufacturer", that does not help. Does anyone have >experience or a suggestion about proper packaging and labeling of this >material so that we can avoid losing valuable research and avoiding >liability issues for not having listed the hazards? Are there exemptions >for quantities, etc. as far as labeling? > >All responses welcome! >Naomi Kelly >Environmental Health and Safety >nkelly@clemson.edu >(864) 656 - 7554 >Fax: (864) 656 - 7630 > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:31:42 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Madelyn Miller Subject: Re: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES CONTAINING HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980903095133.00739eec@mail.clemson.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Greetings, According to DOT HM 181 You can ship up to 5 Liters of Hexane by air. You must ensure that the packaging meets their "performance packaging" requirements. Anyone who sells these packages can give you some guidance for your samples. I know the ampoules should have been in a metal can with a slip top. See table 172.101 for shipping info. Hope this helps. Madelyn On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:51:33 -0400 Naomi Kelly wrote: > Advice needed: > 0.5ml of a 50:50 mixture of hexane and methyl-tert Butyl Ether; these are > ---------------------- Madelyn Miller Chemical Safety Specialist,CCHO Environmental Health & Safety Carnegie Mellon University mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:36:15 -0400 Reply-To: "Dr. Henry" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Henry Boyter Jr." Subject: Re: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES CONTAINING HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 49CFR273.4 covers shipments such as lab samples. You may not be meeting the standard. The flammability is going to be a problem and you should not use blue ice. It doesn't hold up well during shipment. You may have to go to a dry ice system. You can call Fed-Ex to get more information on such shipping, just say you are "thinking about it". Dr. Henry Boyter, Jr. Ph.D. Chemist The opinions of Dr. Boyter are provided for informational purposes only and should not be used as advice. No warranty or expression of professionalism is implied. *************** -----Original Message----- From: Bob Burns To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 10:21 AM Subject: Re: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES CONTAINING HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS My understanding is that shipments must meet the requirments of Haz. Com. even if it is R&D material. I guess I think you should not be doing what you are doing! Sorry! "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation 201 Struble Road State College, PA 16801 phone 814-231-9214 fax 814-238-1567 email rburns@bigfoot.com -----Original Message----- From: Naomi Kelly To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 09:54 Subject: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES CONTAINING HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS >Advice needed: >0.5ml of a 50:50 mixture of hexane and methyl-tert Butyl Ether; these are >sealed in glass vials (100-150) with a silicone septum by a cripper and >ready for GC analysis. This question has been posed to me by one of the >Agronomy Dept. researchers. Apparently, they have been shipping these by >air for some time to other universities which are part of a cooperative >research project. They have had no problems until the last shipment. When >it was received, the researcher who received the shipment noted a strong >hexane odor, and upon opening the package found that some of the vials >appeared to have exploded while others seemed to have imploded. >Pressurization problems on the plane? Obviously, this was a lot of work >lost and, they are quite concerned about having this occur again. The >material was packed in "blue" ice, but they had nothing on the package to >indicate a flammability hazard. The researcher asked me what I thought >about filing a claim against the shipper. I, of course, advised against >this since they did not have the package properly labeled as to the hazard. > >When checking with the Hazardous Materials Support Center for the shipper >about appropriate packaging, they suggested contacting the manufacturer. >Well, since we are the "manufacturer", that does not help. Does anyone have >experience or a suggestion about proper packaging and labeling of this >material so that we can avoid losing valuable research and avoiding >liability issues for not having listed the hazards? Are there exemptions >for quantities, etc. as far as labeling? > >All responses welcome! >Naomi Kelly >Environmental Health and Safety >nkelly@clemson.edu >(864) 656 - 7554 >Fax: (864) 656 - 7630 > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:34:39 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Teresa Robertson Organization: CSU Bakersfield Subject: Re: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES CONTAINING HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Books, similar to telephone books, containing guidelines and requirements for shipping haz mats are available from United Parcel Service, Federal Express, and probably many others. These shippers also have haz mat specialists availble for consultation via their toll-free long distance numbers. The IATA book is availble in safety supply catalogs. For a former employer, I many times shipped materials via air from California to Texas. My employer required us to ship via the IATA regulations (international) which are more strict than DOT. I believe a few years ago Federal Express adopted the IATA standards as a requirement also. I was told by our local FedEx haz mat specialist that the regulations change so rapidly, even if he ok'd a package for shipment out, it could be rejected elsewhere along its route and returned. Also, we once had an employee improperly package and ship a sample. We then found that heavy fines could be levied against the employee as well as the employer. You also must ship with paperwork much more elaborate than for non-hazardous shipments. UPS, FedEx, etc. will provide you with blank copies of their forms, and if you ever use a shipper who does not have forms they can provide for you, some stationary stores carry generic versions. I had a colleague in Houston who received a lot of training in this area; someone else out there may know where such training is available; possibly through UPS, FedEx, etc. Teresa Robertson CSUB ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:09:35 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Paula Ortiz Subject: Vocational Students Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All! I was recently approached by our Director of the Medical Laboratory Program here at Washington State Community College. It seems that the local vocational school will be bringing health science students to our campus every Monday for a couple of hours to spend time in our Medical Laboratory doing experiments using bodily fluids such as urine and blood. We have a strict policy for our higher ed students who are not minors. The question posed to me was concerning the fact that these students are under the age of 18. Do any of you have similar programs or do you know of any regulations concerning minor students from another school on a college campus experimenting in the laboratory with bodily fluids? Does this situation require parental permission? Our campus is located in Ohio...so I don't know if there are any state regulations concerning this either. Any information is very much appreciated! Thanks! Paula Ortiz Science Laboratory Tech Washington State Community College 710 Colegate Dr. Marietta, OH 45750 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:04:56 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Teresa Robertson Organization: CSU Bakersfield Subject: Re: Vocational Students MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU,.internet writes: >Hi All! > Does this >situation require parental permission? If my son's class is planning a walking trip to the park next door (they don't cross a street) for a picnic, I have to sign a parental permission form. I would expect not only would you want to make sure there is permission granted, but the other facility should also. I think this however will be the most minor of your concerns. TRR ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:09:23 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Vocational Students -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>>>>>>>>> Hi All! I was recently approached by our Director of the Medical Laboratory Program here at Washington State Community College. It seems that the local vocational school will be bringing health science students to our campus every Monday for a couple of hours to spend time in our Medical Laboratory doing experiments using bodily fluids such as urine and blood. We have a strict policy for our higher ed students who are not minors. The question posed to me was concerning the fact that these students are under the age of 18. Do any of you have similar programs or do you know of any regulations concerning minor students from another school on a college campus experimenting in the laboratory with bodily fluids? Does this situation require parental permission? Our campus is located in Ohio...so I don't know if there are any state regulations concerning this either. Any information is very much appreciated! Thanks! Paula Ortiz Science Laboratory Tech Washington State Community College 710 Colegate Dr. Marietta, OH 45750 <<<<<<<<<< If it were my child, I would want to know what the specifics were before I gave my approval. I can see no educational value in allowing high school students to work with blood and other bodily fluids at this point in their education. There are too many infectious agents they could contract do to sloppy technique. Lets face it, even the best high school student hasn't had the experience to develop good lab techniques yet. If it were my college lab, I would not allow high school students access to this type of material. For that matter, most of the college students don't have access to human blood or human blood products. There are lots of simulated kits out there that demonstrate the techniques without exposing students to the hazards. For what its worth, Janeen. Janeen Lapierre, CHO-COM UNIVERSITY OF NEW ENGLAND 11 HILLS BEACH ROAD BIDDEFORD, ME 04005 207-283-0170 X2446 JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU Opinions expressed are not those of the university. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:20:34 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Neal Langerman Subject: COMMERCIAL: Training Comments: To: SAFETY@LIST.UVM.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Come to San Diego -- November 12 OSHA HAZWOPER Annual Refresher November 16 Clean-up of Small Spills in Labs and Production Areas Management of a Victim of Chemical Contamination Come to San Francisco November 10 OSHA HAZWOPER Annual Refresher November 9 Clean-up of Small Spills in Labs and Production Areas Management of a Victim of Chemical Contamination Also, I am putting together a very specialized DOT training and certification program which will address only flammables (class 3), toxics (class 6) and corrosives (class 8). It is scheduled on October 19. It will last between 4 and 6 hours. Contact me privately for more information and pricing. Neal ************************************************************* NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY 8909 Complex Drive San Diego CA 92123-1418 619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX) 619 990 4908 (cellular) visit our homepage: http://www.chemical-safety.com ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:03:53 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jim Mudd Subject: Re: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES CONTAINING HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Air transportation of Dangerous Goods - refer to 49 CFR 171.11, "Use of ICAO Technical Instructions", which states : "Notwithstanding the requirements of parts 172 and 173 of this subchapter, a hazardous material may be transported by aircraft, and by motor vehicle either before or after being transported by aircraft, in accordance with the ICAO Technical Instructions...." ICAO means International Civil Aviation Organization. U.S. air carriers follow the IATA [International Air Transport Association] guidelines of the ICAO regulations. Copies of the IATA and ICAO can be obtained from various safety/Haz Material supply vendors. Also contact the hazmat hotline for the specific air carrier you use for assistance. Note, DOT regulations do not apply to shippments sent through the US Postal Service. Also, some air carriers may, and often do, impose greater limitations regarding what materials may be sent by air. Good luck Jim Washington DC ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:46:18 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Lenny Solomon Organization: Harvard University Subject: Re: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES CONTAINING HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I just thought I'd comment on the statement below, "DOT regulations do not apply to shippments sent through the US Postal Service." I believe that this statement is in error. It is my understanding that CFR 49 applies to all shipments including those sent via the US Post Office. If the amount of hazardous material is above what is defined as "limited quantity", it must be properly labeled, marked, and packed with an accompanying Declaration of Hazardous Material form. Lenny Solomon Harvard University Date sent: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:03:53 EDT Send reply to: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jim Mudd Subject: Re: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES CONTAINING HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Air transportation of Dangerous Goods - refer to 49 CFR 171.11, "Use of ICAO > Technical Instructions", which states : "Notwithstanding the requirements of > parts 172 and 173 of this subchapter, a hazardous material may be transported > by aircraft, and by motor vehicle either before or after being transported by > aircraft, in accordance with the ICAO Technical Instructions...." ICAO > means International Civil Aviation Organization. U.S. air carriers follow the > IATA [International Air Transport Association] guidelines of the ICAO > regulations. Copies of the IATA and ICAO can be obtained from various > safety/Haz Material supply vendors. Also contact the hazmat hotline for the > specific air carrier you use for assistance. Note, DOT regulations do not > apply to shippments sent through the US Postal Service. Also, some air > carriers may, and often do, impose greater limitations regarding what > materials may be sent by air. > > Good luck > > Jim > Washington DC ***************************** Lenny Solomon Harvard University Atmospheric Research Project 12 Oxford Street Cambridge, MA 02138 617-495-4215 (Voice) 617-495-4902 (Fax) solomon@huarp.harvard.edu http://www-arp.harvard.edu/~solomon/index.html ******************************* > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:48:35 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Ahler Subject: A Lab Fire Experience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="A" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have received (been copied) a good description of a recent lab fire at= CSU Los Angeles. This description is not so much about how how the fire was nor how high the flames went. I think this story is useful mostly from the point of view how much trouble, time, and money spent can result from a fire that directly affected only two rooms. This story also points up my own prejudices against multi-story science buildings, but that's a separate sermon. I think it's important to note: =20 =2D- how long the whole building was "off-line" as a result of this =20 incident, =2D- how much money was apparently spent in disposing of chemical = =20 materials ruined by the fire and attendant water damage, =2D- how much time and money can be spent on asbestos issues in a = =20 formerly healthy building, =2D- the beneficial effect of proper chemical storage ( liquid chemicals= =20 in glass bottles that survived) and the beneficial effect of Fire = =20 Doors. I have included this information as text in the body of this message, rather than an attachment. I know attachments are problematical for some, so please excuse the long e-mail. =20 I hope you find this useful. =20 Hey Folks! The SoCal EHS Mutual Aid can stand down, the Phys. Sci. building is secured and stabilized as of this afternoon. Brady extends his apology to all, for not returning calls. BUT he was happy to know the assistance was available if required. As many of you are aware the fire started on the 7th floor in two adjacent organic labs. No one was injured. =20 Fire damage in two rooms, smoke damage on the two floors, and water damage all the way to the basement. 95 firefighters responded and contained the= spread quickly. ECI was there on scene Sunday by 10pm to start clean-up, and has been working the last couple of days. Building will probably be turned to campus by county health tomorrow, and asbestos monitoring will commence. They are going to try and open- basement through 6th for the Fall Qtr., but 7th= and 8th will remain closed. This is ONLY a synopsis, Brady will provide a more detailed report as soon as the alligators are hog tied. He will get copies of stills and video to share with us, which I think would be a great help to us all. Call if I missed something. If not, once again an impressive display of 'HAZCON 3', Tony X. To my Fellow EHS Directors, I would like to thank Tony for getting this synopsis out to you and I do= apologize for not being more responsive to those calling with the offer of assistance. Everything is under control and moving along systematically towards some degree of normalcy. Some details which will= add to what Tony has conveyed to you already. The fire occurred at 7:00 PM <8/9/98, a Sunday> and the fire and haz mat= personnel from the County were on the scene immediately. The fire was contained to the two= laboratories on the West end of the 7th Floor of our Physical Sciences Building. Two adjacent offices received residual fire damage. The rooms above the fire zone on the 8th Floor received extensive heat damage. The rooms directly below the fire zone received extensive water= damage. Smoke and soot damage is on the 7th and partially on the 8th Floors. Residual water damage is on the 1st through 6th Floors. The building has been closed down since the fire and will remain so for some= time. The University had taken over control from the County Fire and Haz Mat group at approx. 11:00 PM Sunday evening and our contractor ECI who was on scene began immediately to stabilize the remaining chemistry not engulfed by the fire. These labs destroyed were organic research labs. The main problem we faced were the powdered water reactives which= continued to remain unstable until early Monday AM. ECI was done with the chemical removal yesterday. Ended up with 30 drums of lab packs, a roll-off of suspect contaminated debris awaiting analytical. Suprisingly there was approx. 50 gallons total of salvageable chemicals removed from the burn zone, of which about 20 consisted of glass gallon bottles of flammable liquids. The fire doors and the concrete floors contained the fire to the two rooms. ECI performed wipe samples for metals, specifically Hg which was present= in small quantities. Awaiting those results. Rad assessment being performed on 5th and Basement levels. Asbestos air monitoring will commence today through Friday with TEM analysis being performed in the fire zone and direct reads on-site for the water damaged areas. There is sprayed on fire-proofing above all drop ceiling panels. Structural engineers have toured the fire zone and Facilities will give EHS recommendations what areas they require asbestos abatement to occur in. Otherwise encapsulation of undamaged ACM will occur. Asbestos abatement= of the fume hoods, walls, fire doors damaged, and damaged fire-proofing will occur probably starting Monday. All of this will happen primarily on the 6th, 7th and 8th Floors. CSULA's goal is to have the 1st through 6th Floors ready for Fall Quarter, if possible. The 7th and 8th Floors will be isolated and take much longer to bring back on-line. The County Health Dept. should be out today to observe the clean-up progress. Without inferring any cause= for the fire, there were research experiments being performed in this lab 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, unattended. I am sure that I'm forgetting something but have to run off to a meeting= now. Will continue to keep you all appraised on the status as I am able= to. Regards...Kevin =20 Dear Fellow EHS Directors/Professionals, I am having to resort to this approach to get an update out to you since= my e-mail will not allow me to write a note any longer than 1 to 2 minutes. Several attempts have left me with incomplete messages, so this attached file should do the job. Most of you by now have heard of the fire, which occurred in our Physical Sciences Building on August 9, 1998 at 7:00 PM. While the cause remains undetermined, there are two (2) leading candidates, which are: the HVAC was not operational creating an environment where chemicals spontaneously ignited; and an unattended organic chemistry research experiment went bad causing a chemical reaction and subsequent fire. I tend to subscribe to the latter explanation, but the Fire Department report has very simply stated that the origin of the fire was= a "laboratory", form of heat was "spontaneous ignition, chemical reaction", and ignition factor was "improper storage". The latter statement was hard for me to understand as the fire zone left no signs that hazardous materials were stored improperly due to everything being consumed by the fire. That's probably why there are the experts. On the building status, shortly after the fire Public Safety re-keyed the building and only 5 keys were made. They reside within Public Safety, EHS and one to our clean-up contractor. This has allowed for very secure access allowing the environmental restoration activities to occur without delay. Both Public Safety & EHS granted limited access to= faculty and staff personnel to remove essential instructional items, assess damage to equipment, and secure any experiments after performing environmental monitoring for metals (Pb, Cd, Cr, Zn), mercury, asbestos,= radiation, organics, and moisture. All measurements were either non-detectable or far below any established regulated levels from an exposure viewpoint. The moisture survey was to ascertain the extent of water intrusion and allow for a plan of attack to prevent mold and mildew growth before it takes hold. Throughout the environmental activities, EHS has been able to stay with only two (2) contractors, Ecology Control Ind. (ECI) performs all chemical stabilization, asbestos, lead, and mold treatment, and EOS Environmental for all air and bulk monitoring activities. The main focus of all our efforts have been to complete the tasks in the most time efficient means possible. =20 Our ultimate goal is to have Floors 6 through to the Sub-Basement occupied by the beginning of the Fall Quarter. The 7th and 8th Floors have much lengthier schedules due to the additional work required on those floors. The scope of work for ECI is as follows: Floors 6 Through Sub-Basement 1. Chemical packaging of all hazardous substances which would hinder abatement or other contractor's efforts. 2. Pre-cleaning of all fallen debris, and cleaning of residual water staining in all rooms. 3. Asbestos abatement of ceiling tiles and encapsulation of ACM coated structural beams. Includes HEPA vac of all horizontal surfaces above drop ceiling tile. (a). Note full abatement of all ceiling tiles on the 5th and 6th Floors, and limited to only damaged tiles on the 4th Floor down. No beam encapsulation below the 5th Floor. 4. After Facility's vendor completes replacement of ceiling tile and general cleaning by Facilities is done (if required) then ECI will place= the chemicals back in the individual rooms. 5. EOS's scope of work is to support all ECI activities with air monitoring and clearance of floors before re-entry by Facility's vendors. =20 ECI has two 10-hour shifts, 7 days a week operating now. These are 10 person crews. With additional personnel performing the mold treatment and chemical packaging. On the mold treatment, from the 7th Floor down to the Sub-Basement, all floor boards will be removed and 2-inch holes drilled at specified intervals for the application of a biocide (Cidexplus) to be sprayed behind the wall. There will only be one application as we do not want a measurable residual going into the Fall Quarter. It is tight but our goal is to be complete by Sept. 21st. The EHS activities are running ahead of schedule, but the Facilities actions aren't as clear. They say they can support, but the true test will be when we leave a vacant floor and how long until their work begins. At this time, the 6th Floor is done and cleared. The 5th Floor starts abatement tonight (9/2/98) and should be done by Monday, 9/7/98. From there on each floor (4 to the sub-basement) will take 2 to 3 days each from our end. We hope to better that time as each floor is easier going= down. As far as the cost is concerned, if you are interested give me a call, as I have a hard time writing those figures down, that's when reality sets in. I have mentioned a lot, and surely have missed some things. If you have= any questions call me and I'll be as open as I can be at this time with the information. Take care=85Kevin =20 =2E..all this from only two rooms burned up. I think I'll re-visit our= fire safety policy and Unattended Experiment protocol. Thanks. Michael Ahler, CHO Risk Management Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, California ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:06:57 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jim Mudd Subject: Re: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES CONTAINING HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit DOT Dangerous Goods regulations under 49 CFR only applys to "commercial" transportation. HM regulations for the US Postal Service are found in the Postal Service's Domestic Mail Manual - I believe the correct volume is DM54. Also, quantities of dangerous goods which meet the definition of limited quantity are not exempt from the requirement for marking, labeling and manifesting. The limited quantity exemption only permits the shipper to use non-UN approved packaging. Jim Mudd FBI Laboratory Washington DC ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:25:30 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Alan Warren(RD)" Subject: Re: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES CONTAINING HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS As a general practice, do not send anything hazardous by the U.S. Postal Service. As Jim says, check the Domestic Mail Manual. The USPS is pretty clear about what is not permitted in the mail. For hazmat, use a courier for small packages (United Parcel Service, FedEx), and for larger quantities, a common carrier (i.e. truck). In these cases, the DOT regulations apply. UPS has a dangerous materials manual. Shipping by air versus ground is often more stringent. Airlines are very reluctant to handle hazmats, so it is necessary to be sure the packages are properly labeled and packaged (i.e. U.N. spec packages, if required). Anyone who ships (the "Shipper") hazmats must be trained in accordance with HM126. >---------- >From: Jim Mudd[SMTP:Vajlm@AOL.COM] >Sent: Thursday, September 03, 1998 10:06 PM >To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >Subject: Re: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES CONTAINING HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS > >DOT Dangerous Goods regulations under 49 CFR only applys to "commercial" >transportation. HM regulations for the US Postal Service are found in the >Postal Service's Domestic Mail Manual - I believe the correct volume is DM54. >Also, quantities of dangerous goods which meet the definition of limited >quantity are not exempt from the requirement for marking, labeling and >manifesting. The limited quantity exemption only permits the shipper to use >non-UN approved packaging. > > >Jim Mudd >FBI Laboratory >Washington DC > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:52:00 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Barbara J. Weaver" Subject: PPB & PPM I need to explain parts per billion and parts per million to a group of average community adults and children. The program is timed so I do not have much time for an exercise - words will have to do. Does anyone have any entertaining examples of what ppb and ppm really mean? The only ones that I have for ppm so far : one teaspoon in a 5000 gallon tank truck, & the classic swimming pool examples. I have none for ppb. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:12:40 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Julie O'Brien Subject: Manganese recycle Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does anyone know of a company that purchases manganese for recycle/resale? We have about 24 kg that we would hate to have to dispose of as waste since it's still pure. Julie O'Brien Chemist PCR, Inc. PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 ext. 232 Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville PO Box 5951 Gainesville, FL 32627 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:20:26 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Julie O'Brien Subject: Mercury perchlorate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am in the process of finding a waste handler to dispose of mercury perchlorate. The waste handlers we work with have requested a copy of the MSDS. The mercury perchorate is older than the Right-to-Know Act, so we have no MSDS on file for it. I am already aware of the explosion hazard associated with perchlorates. I have checked the common sources (Aldrich, J.T. Baker, some web sites) for an MSDS for this material but have been unsuccessful. I would check with the original manufacturer, but unfortunately the label indicates that my company is the original manufacturer. Any suggestions on how to get an MSDS for this material, other than generating our own? Julie O'Brien Chemist PCR, Inc. PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 ext. 232 Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville PO Box 5951 Gainesville, FL 32627 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:29:55 -0500 Reply-To: okeeffeb@advancia.com Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Barbara O'Keeffe Organization: Advancia Corporation Subject: Re: PPB & PPM Comments: To: "Barbara J. Weaver" In-Reply-To: <199809041301.IAA88018@saluki-mail.siu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I have a friend who routinely uses a large piece of screen mesh - - cut so that one of the holes is 1 ppm of all of the holes in the screen. Works very well in giving a feeling for just how small a unit ppm is. However, it is a pretty big piece of screening to carry around - - ppb size would really be hard to handle. Barb > I need to explain parts per billion and parts per million to a group of > average community adults and children. The program is timed so I do not > have much time for an exercise - words will have to do. Does anyone have > any entertaining examples of what ppb and ppm really mean? > > The only ones that I have for ppm so far : one teaspoon in a 5000 gallon > tank truck, & the classic swimming pool examples. > > I have none for ppb. Barbara O'Keeffe Advancia Corporation, 211 SW "A" Ave., Lawton, OK 73501 voice: 580-355-1471 fax: 580-357-9360 e-mail: okeeffeb@advancia.com http://www.advancia.com ***bits of wisdom, trivia & misplaced comments* ***are mine - - no one else wants them* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:01:24 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Dewey Williams Subject: Re: Mercury perchlorate In-Reply-To: <199809041320.JAA26096@freenet5.afn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:20 AM 9/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >I am in the process of finding a waste handler to dispose of mercury >perchlorate. The waste handlers we work with have requested a copy of >the MSDS. My suggestion, call the local bomb squad. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:17:34 -0500 Reply-To: pdepra@foma.wsc.mass.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Patricia DePra Organization: Westfield State College Subject: Re: EHS class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about risk factors vs. # of students in a lab? general vs. organic vs. analytical, as well? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:37:04 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Debbie Decker Subject: Re: Mercury perchlorate In-Reply-To: <199809041359.IAA137602@saluki-mail.siu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:01 AM 9/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 09:20 AM 9/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >>I am in the process of finding a waste handler to dispose of mercury >>perchlorate. The waste handlers we work with have requested a copy of >the >MSDS. > >My suggestion, call the local bomb squad. > > Short of the bomb squad and the attendant publicity, you might want to call a company like ETSC (708-980-3872) who have experience in disposal of unstable and explosive materials. I used them to dispose of some very scary cylinders that no one else would touch - I didn't even want to touch 'em! Not cheap but extremely professional. My opinions only. Deb. Debbie Decker EH&S UCDavis (530)754-7964 dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:07:34 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Re: Mercury perchlorate In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980904083704.007c8da0@scarlet.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ditto on Deb's comments on qualified contractors vs. bomb squads. Every time you have a high-visibility public-safety response (e.g., bomb squad, hazmat alarm) on campus you reduce public trust in your institution and heighten suspicions against ALL users. There are a lot of mouth-breathers out there and, unfortunately, many are employed by the media. Diatribe aside, this once again demonstrates the importance of conducting planning with local public-safety agencies. Do you feel comfortable asking them for advice on such matters? Do you know who you'll be speaking with if you call for a consult? I think we've touched on this before on the list but some things bear repeating. JNR ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:27:03 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "David (Fuzz) Harrison" Subject: Re: PPB & PPM In-Reply-To: <199809041301.IAA88018@saluki-mail.siu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Barb: For ppm I use the population of the state of Maine (about one million) and ask the folks to imagine one person in the state wearing a red hat while all the rest are wearing white. It's not bad except for the spacial aspect. A city might work better (I think San Diego is just over a million?). The tank example is good, but the catch is to use something that folks are familiar with. I use the diesel tank we have on campus for emergency electrical power. By the way, I did the math one day and by my calculations one teaspoon equates to one ppm in a 1,302 gal tank (768 tsp/gal?). For ppb, you could use one drop in a 17,132 gallon tank (58,368 drops/gal). Know anything around the community that holds about 17K gals? Something else I thought of using was a volume of colored sand contrasted by a different color to show different concentrations, but have never used it. Good luck! At 08:52 AM 9/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >I need to explain parts per billion and parts per million to a group of >average community adults and children. The program is timed so I do not >have much time for an exercise - words will have to do. Does anyone >have any entertaining examples of what ppb and ppm really mean? > >The only ones that I have for ppm so far : one teaspoon in a 5000 gallon >tank truck, & the classic swimming pool examples. > >I have none for ppb. > Fuzz Harrison, Industrial Hygienist The Jackson Laboratory, 600 Main Street, Bar Harbor ME 04609-1500 (http://www.jax.org/) 207.288.6473 voice, 207.288.6147 fax, fdh@aretha.jax.org email ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:50:34 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: purfleece Subject: Re: PPB & PPM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While this won't help you on the short term, Flinn has a new item, a Becker Bottle that is filled with 1 million candy beads. There are different color beads in the bottle representing concentrations of 1 ppm (a single black bead), 10 ppm, etc. Great visual. Rich Bigelow AR High School and Purfleece Farms purflece@alltel.net ---------- > From: Barbara J. Weaver > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: PPB & PPM > Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 8:52 AM > > I need to explain parts per billion and parts per million to a group of > average community adults and children. The program is timed so I do not > have much time for an exercise - words will have to do. Does anyone > have any entertaining examples of what ppb and ppm really mean? > > The only ones that I have for ppm so far : one teaspoon in a 5000 gallon > tank truck, & the classic swimming pool examples. > > I have none for ppb. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 03:47:18 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Robert E. Brennan" Subject: Ethanol Combustion Demonstration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I use a demo in class where I put a capful of ethanol in a plastic gallon= bottle, swirl the liquid around to coat the insides and let it evaporate,= dump out any excess, and drop in a match. The result is an impressive jet= of flame out the opening followed by my pouring out the water which was produced by the reaction. I heard recently that there had been some problems (explosions) with othe= rs doing this demo. Anybody have any facts on this? Bob Brennan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:52:29 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-03 13:44:22 EDT, you write: << someone else out there may know where such training is available; >> LSW can provide training in the area of shipment of hazardous materials. Would there be enough interest to offer such a course at New Safety '99 in January or perhaps sooner? ... jim ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:52:38 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Vocational Students Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-03 14:05:11 EDT, you write: << It seems that the local vocational school will be bringing health science students to our campus every Monday for a couple of hours to spend time in our Medical Laboratory doing experiments using bodily fluids such as urine and blood. >> JAK... If they are going to do this, I would recommend following all the provisions of the bloodborne pathogens standard, including offering vaccination. Parental consent is essential. ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 09:44:40 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Neal Langerman Subject: Re: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jim and list - I also regularly provide this training. I have a program scheduled in San Diego on Oct. 19. Neal At 08:52 AM 9/5/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-09-03 13:44:22 EDT, you write: > ><< someone else out there may know where such training is available; >> > >LSW can provide training in the area of shipment of hazardous materials. >Would there be enough interest to offer such a course at New Safety '99 >in January or perhaps sooner? ... jim > > ***************************************************** > James A. Kaufman, President > The Laboratory Safety Workshop > 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 > 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com > Safety in Science Education > >The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational >organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and >important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory >Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar >schedule, and membership information are available on request. > > The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. > Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG > ********************************************************************** > > ************************************************************* NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY 8909 Complex Drive San Diego CA 92123-1418 619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX) 619 990 4908 (cellular) visit our homepage: http://www.chemical-safety.com ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:22:12 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Ethanol Combustion Demonstration Comments: cc: pathamm@concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-05 03:48:16 EDT, you write: << I use a demo in class where I put a capful of ethanol in a plastic gallon bottle, swirl the liquid around to coat the insides and let it evaporate, dump out any excess, and drop in a match. The result is an impressive jet of flame out the opening followed by my pouring out the water which was produced by the reaction. I heard recently that there had been some problems (explosions) with others doing this demo. Anybody have any facts on this? >> JAK: Yes, there have been explosions. These have included the use of plastic bottles. If by chance (on a bad day) you end up with the stoichiometric mixture or air and alcohol (you can calc the amounts), you can have a detonation instead of the deflagration you have been observing. The difference could change you whole outlook on this demo! If you would like to continue to do it. Wrap the jug with clear, wide plastic tape. Put a shield between the demo and the students and the demo and yourself. Require the students to wear chemical splash safety goggles. And, a good alternative is to consider making a video of yourself doing the demo and show that to your students. ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:54:20 -0700 Reply-To: Bill Deutschman Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bill Deutschman Subject: Re: unsubscribe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Learn how to unsubscribe from the list without sending you message to the entire list. You received instruction when you subscribed to the list. bill P.S I just waded through 800 messages and I don't need to look at this type of message. Bill Deutschman Oregon Laser Consultants 455 Hillside Avenue Klamath Falls, OR 97601-2337 olcbill@cdsnet.net -----Original Message----- From: Branson Lawrence To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 5:14 AM Subject: unsubscribe >unsubsribe > > > >Branson D. Lawrence, Jr >Illinois Math and Science Academy >1500 W. Sullivan Rd. >Aurora, IL 60506-1000 >branson@imsa.edu >http://www.imsa.edu/~branson > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:03:54 -0700 Reply-To: Bill Deutschman Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bill Deutschman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Helen: Learn to send a subject with your messages. It helps us to eliminate useless messages. Bill Deutschman Oregon Laser Consultants 455 Hillside Avenue Klamath Falls, OR 97601-2337 olcbill@cdsnet.net -----Original Message----- From: Helen B. Gerhard To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Date: Thursday, August 27, 1998 9:59 AM >1. Plan experiments to use materials that can be obtained at home (e.g. >Red Cabbage Juice, vinegar, baking soda works well for showing acid/base >concepts) >2. Send instructions on how to perform the experiment. This is not >unlike what is done with ACS's Wonder Science. In that case, the kids are >told NOT to do the experiments without parents being present. I think that >if the experimenter is a college student, parents don't need to be there. > >By taking this approach, chemicals are not being removed from the lab. The >concept is not any different from a person purchasing a chemistry set from a >store or obtaining a kid's experiment book (found at any local library). >The difference is that the instructor will require the lab write ups to be >turned in for grades. > >Thanks! > >Helen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Harry Elston [SMTP:helston@FGI.NET] > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 1998 9:54 AM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: > > At 08:55 AM 8/27/98 -0400, you wrote: > > > One of our instructors has designed a distance learning >biology lab > >which involves sending chemicals home with students so they can do >the > >necessary experiments there. There is also talk of doing some >chemistry > >labs via distance learning and sending chemicals home with the >students. > >The whole idea of sending college-owned chemicals out of the >controlled > >environment of our labs and into the chaos of students' homes >disturbs me. > >Besides the obvious hazards to the students and their families and > >consequent liability problems, I see problems involving transport >of the > >chemicals and disposal of them after the experiment is completed. I >brought > >these concerns up to the administration and was, of course, given >the job > >of formulating policy guidelines. Any suggestions? > > Pardon any cross-posting, but I need all the help I can get. > > Ahh. yes, Mott Community College....Brings back a lot of memories :) >(I > lived near Flint for the first 22 years of my life!) > > But, to your question, Jerry. My first, knee-jerk reaction is "not >only > no, but hell no." Even if the chemicals are "house hold" chemicals >(such as > bleach or baking soda), become regulated under OSHA and EPA once >they are > brought into the laboratory. Taking things "out of the lab" would >also > mean, in my opinion they are being transported thus bringing in >other > regulatory nightmares such as transportation of hazardous materials. >Now, > I know that students aren't covered by OSHA, but there's that >"prudent > practice" idea which boils down to the idea that it's the college's > responsibility to keep students safe! > > First opinion, without knowing all the details, is that this is a >WAY BAD > IDEA, and I would be very heistant in letting this occur. >Personally, my > policy guideline right now would be, "find something else to do >which > didn't involve chemicals." > > Harry Elston > > Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO > Chemical Hygiene Officer > Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety > Opinions are mine, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah > > "God made all those stars out of nothin'. He just > 'pfffft' and there they were." > -Larry the Cucumber, Veggie Tales > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 10:03:27 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Helen B. Gerhard" Subject: JAK's HAZMAT SHIPPING CLASS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I would be very interested in such a class. Would like to see several things addressed: 1) The rest of the world does not use the NA designations that the DOT uses. Rather, they only use the UN hazard numbers only. As a result, a material that has a DOT NA number associated does not always have a comparable UN number. How do you determine hazard classes for overseas shipments? 2) Airline shipments. I have been told that some combustibles (e.g. class II and class III-A) which have flashpoints below 200 degrees F must still be marked as flammables when shipped on airlines. Where can this (and other related information) be found? 3) When information on a particular chemical is not available as to the hazard code that must be assigned a) in the US and b) in the world, what steps would be prudent in determining how best to ship materials safely? 4) DOT Training requirements for various types of facilities. For instance, there are facilities that drive materials around on their premises and those that receive chemicals at a loading dock without further transport. Also, there is the transport out of the facility training issues. In any case, having a matrix that describes the training requirements for all of these scenarios would be a help. I'm sure there are more issues that would need to be addressed in such a class. Let us know if you will offer one. Thanks! Helen -----Original Message----- From: Labsafe@AOL.COM [SMTP:Labsafe@AOL.COM] Sent: Saturday, September 05, 1998 6:52 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES In a message dated 98-09-03 13:44:22 EDT, you write: << someone else out there may know where such training is available; >> LSW can provide training in the area of shipment of hazardous materials. Would there be enough interest to offer such a course at New Safety '99 in January or perhaps sooner? ... jim ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:48:32 +1200 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: John Downey Subject: Re: JAK's HAZMAT SHIPPING CLASS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" For shipment to the rest of the world, the "United Nations Recommendations on the Transport of dangerous Goods", now up to the 10th edition, commonly known as the UNRTDG or the Orange Book (from its cover) is a pretty good bible. If individual countries have variations on these recommendations, they will only be minor, and would normally accept imported items complying with these rules. IATA have additional requirements for airfreight, and IMCO have additional requirements for seafreight, though less stringent requirements in some other areas. But if you comply with UNRTDG you will have 95% of your problems beaten. The rest of the world doesn't necessarily believe that DOT know all there is to know about shipping hazardous substances. Cheers John. > -----Original Message----- > From: Helen B. Gerhard [SMTP:hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 4:03 AM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: JAK's HAZMAT SHIPPING CLASS > > I would be very interested in such a class. Would like to see several > things addressed: > > 1) The rest of the world does not use the NA designations that the > DOT > uses. Rather, they only use the UN hazard numbers only. As a result, a > material that has a DOT NA number associated does not always have a > comparable UN number. How do you determine hazard classes for overseas > shipments? > 2) Airline shipments. I have been told that some combustibles (e.g. > class II and class III-A) which have flashpoints below 200 degrees F must > still be marked as flammables when shipped on airlines. Where can this > (and > other related information) be found? > 3) When information on a particular chemical is not available as to > the > hazard code that must be assigned a) in the US and b) in the world, what > steps would be prudent in determining how best to ship materials safely? > 4) DOT Training requirements for various types of facilities. For > instance, there are facilities that drive materials around on their > premises > and those that receive chemicals at a loading dock without further > transport. Also, there is the transport out of the facility training > issues. In any case, having a matrix that describes the training > requirements for all of these scenarios would be a help. > > I'm sure there are more issues that would need to be addressed in such a > class. Let us know if you will offer one. > > Thanks! > > Helen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Labsafe@AOL.COM [SMTP:Labsafe@AOL.COM] > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 1998 6:52 AM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES > > In a message dated 98-09-03 13:44:22 EDT, you write: > > << someone else out there may know where such training is > available; > >> > > LSW can provide training in the area of shipment of hazardous > materials. > Would there be enough interest to offer such a course at New > Safety > '99 > in January or perhaps sooner? ... jim > > ***************************************************** > James A. Kaufman, President > The Laboratory Safety Workshop > 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 > 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com > Safety in Science Education > > The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit > educational > organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and > important part of science education. Free copies of our > Laboratory > Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, > seminar > schedule, and membership information are available on request. > > The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. > Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG > > ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:22:41 -0700 Reply-To: Bill Deutschman Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bill Deutschman Subject: An Apology for a Rude Message: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List Members: Last Sunday I returned home from two weeks of travel and after missing two days of Labor Day weekend started to read the 801 e-mail messages on my computer. Unfortunately I lost my temper while trying to select the messages I wanted to read and sent rude messages to several list members who had not included subjects with their messages. Even worse I sent the messages to the entire list instead of the specific authors, wasted your valuable time and probably embarrassed the authors. There is no excuse for my inappropriate messages and rude manners on this very useful list. I am sorry that I sent the messages and apologize to the list member and the specific authors. bill Bill Deutschman Oregon Laser Consultants 455 Hillside Avenue Klamath Falls, OR 97601-2337 olcbill@cdsnet.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:54:57 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Susan Lauterbach Subject: Speaker for Departmental Safety Meeting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does anyone have any suggestions about a speaker for a Chemistry Department Lab Safety Meeting??? It would be great if this person had both a teaching and research background. Many researchers in our department are not as interested in safety in teaching laboratories as they would be in application in the research labs. Generally our Safety and Security Committee picks a topic for our annual Safety Meetings. Most of the good videos on the market (Howard Hughes Institute) are applicable for mostly Biochemistry type lab atmosphere, not necessarily an Organic, Physical, or Analytical area. We thought, perhaps, that there might be someone who could deliver a semiar on Safety similar to a semiar on research project/area. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Susan L. Susan K. Lauterbach, M.S. Coordinator, Instructional Laboratories and Facility Safety University of Oklahoma Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry 620 Parrington Oval, Room 208 Norman, OK 73019 Phone: 405-325-2742 FAX: 405-325-6111 e-mail: sklauterbach@ou.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:39:20 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: young Subject: unsubscribe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0040_01BDDB04.2C2DE7C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BDDB04.2C2DE7C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable unsubscribe ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BDDB04.2C2DE7C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
unsubscribe
------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BDDB04.2C2DE7C0-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:12:40 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "James M. Wherley, NPHS Chemistry Instructor" Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Jim Wherley, Chemistry Instructor, New Philadelphia High School 343 Ray Avenue NW, New Philadelphia, Ohio, 44663 Voice: 330-364-0644, Home: 330-339-5487 Fax Number: 330-364-0611 e-mail: np_21@omalp1.omeresa.ohio.gov ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:48:26 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: Speaker for Departmental Safety Meeting In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980908095457.007a4450@chemdept.chem.ou.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You only have an annual safety meeting!!? How long is it? All day or an hour? You might try to bump the hours up. As for videos, try the ACS lab safety series. Several have won international awards in the training film category. Don't forget, any training film needs to be followed by discussion, especially as some of the important points are buried under a good deal of humor. They are not cheap, however. I was tech advisor to one and can attest to the many rewrites and reviews they went through at each step. Mary Ann At 09:54 AM 9/8/98 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone have any suggestions about a speaker for a Chemistry >Department Lab Safety Meeting??? It would be great if this person had both >a teaching and research background. Many researchers in our department are >not as interested in safety in teaching laboratories as they would be in >application in the research labs. Generally our Safety and Security >Committee picks a topic for our annual Safety Meetings. Most of the good >videos on the market (Howard Hughes Institute) are applicable for mostly >Biochemistry type lab atmosphere, not necessarily an Organic, Physical, or >Analytical area. We thought, perhaps, that there might be someone who >could deliver a semiar on Safety similar to a semiar on research project/area. > >Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > >Susan L. > > > >Susan K. Lauterbach, M.S. >Coordinator, Instructional Laboratories and Facility Safety >University of Oklahoma >Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry >620 Parrington Oval, Room 208 >Norman, OK 73019 >Phone: 405-325-2742 >FAX: 405-325-6111 >e-mail: sklauterbach@ou.edu > Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority DivCHAS Chair, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:10:53 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Howard Spencer Subject: Speaker for Safety Meeting - My suggestion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Contact Dr. Kaufman. He is a great presenter and has through the lab safety workshop a good lending library of films. His address is at the bottom of all of the administrator messages or call 508-647-0900. > ---------- > From: Mary Ann Solstad[SMTP:msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET] > Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 11:48 AM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: Speaker for Departmental Safety Meeting > > You only have an annual safety meeting!!? How long is it? All day or > an > hour? > You might try to bump the hours up. > As for videos, try the ACS lab safety series. Several have won > international awards in the training film category. Don't forget, any > training film needs to be followed by discussion, especially as some > of the > important points are buried under a good deal of humor. They are not > cheap, however. I was tech advisor to one and can attest to the many > rewrites and reviews they went through at each step. > > Mary Ann > > > > At 09:54 AM 9/8/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Does anyone have any suggestions about a speaker for a Chemistry > >Department Lab Safety Meeting??? It would be great if this person > had both > >a teaching and research background. Many researchers in our > department are > >not as interested in safety in teaching laboratories as they would be > in > >application in the research labs. Generally our Safety and Security > >Committee picks a topic for our annual Safety Meetings. Most of the > good > >videos on the market (Howard Hughes Institute) are applicable for > mostly > >Biochemistry type lab atmosphere, not necessarily an Organic, > Physical, or > >Analytical area. We thought, perhaps, that there might be someone > who > >could deliver a semiar on Safety similar to a semiar on research > project/area. > > > >Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > > >Susan L. > > > > > > > >Susan K. Lauterbach, M.S. > >Coordinator, Instructional Laboratories and Facility Safety > >University of Oklahoma > >Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry > >620 Parrington Oval, Room 208 > >Norman, OK 73019 > >Phone: 405-325-2742 > >FAX: 405-325-6111 > >e-mail: sklauterbach@ou.edu > > > Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety > SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude > 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness > 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application > Authority > DivCHAS Chair, ACS > msolstad@mediaone.net > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:12:26 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Dennis Mathiason Subject: Re: Ethanol Combustion Demonstration In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >In a message dated 98-09-05 03:48:16 EDT, you write: > ><< I use a demo in class where I put a capful of ethanol in a plastic gallon > bottle, swirl the liquid around to coat the insides and let it evaporate, > dump out any excess, and drop in a match. The result is an impressive jet > of flame out the opening followed by my pouring out the water which was > produced by the reaction. > I heard recently that there had been some problems (explosions) with others > doing this demo. Anybody have any facts on this? >> > >JAK: Yes, there have been explosions. These have included the use of >plastic bottles. If by chance (on a bad day) you end up with the >stoichiometric mixture or air and alcohol (you can calc the amounts), you can >have a detonation instead of the deflagration you have been observing. The >difference could change you whole outlook on this demo! > >If you would like to continue to do it. Wrap the jug with clear, wide plastic >tape. Put a shield between the demo and the students and the demo and >yourself. Require the students to wear chemical splash safety goggles. And, >a good alternative is to consider making a video of yourself doing the demo >and show that to your students. > > ***************************************************** > James A. Kaufman, President > The Laboratory Safety Workshop > 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 > 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com > Safety in Science Education > >The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational >organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and >important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory >Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar >schedule, and membership information are available on request. > > The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. > Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG > ********************************************************************** I second JAK's comments_ And there is more to consider when using plastic containers for explosion demontrations. While one would not use metal or glass containers because of shards of material potentially being produced, it is not safe to assume all plastics are equally benign. Plastics can, depending on the nature of the plastic, age of plastic, exposure to chemicals and uv light, shatter producing shards even if wrapped with tape. I have witnessed such explosions several times. The first happened with an AA instrument where a plastic bottle was being used to recover condensate from the nebulizer. While no one was lacerated, the deflected debris stung as it hit legs of bystanders. (Note: this was probably due to air/acetylene/ organic solvent) My advice: A. Use an open 8 ft plastic gutter which has been propped up at an angle. Place a chemically moistened material at the upper end and a lit candle at the bottom end. The event will be dramatic enugh to make several points: 1, flammability; and 2, dense gases will descend to lower area. B. An outdoor experiment for the approaching Fall season. Place several inches of damp leaves on ground. Sprinkle small qty of gasoline on leaves. Cover this area with a foot or more of leaves. Wait 5-15 mins (depends on wind). Toss flaming cloth onto pile. If sufficient air/fuel mixing has occured, you will have leaves scattered all over. Have never witnessed a fire because of the rapid combustion of the gasoline. Only disadvantage: Now you have to recover those damn leaves again. CAUTION!!!! Do not perform this demo near bldgs or other significant combustibles. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:11:56 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Melonee Cruse Organization: Chaffey College Subject: Re: Speaker for Departmental Safety Meeting MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Susan Lauterbach wrote: > > Does anyone have any suggestions about a speaker for a Chemistry > Department Lab Safety Meeting??? It would be great if this person had both > a teaching and research background. Many researchers in our department are > not as interested in safety in teaching laboratories as they would be in > application in the research labs. Generally our Safety and Security > Committee picks a topic for our annual Safety Meetings. Most of the good > videos on the market (Howard Hughes Institute) are applicable for mostly > Biochemistry type lab atmosphere, not necessarily an Organic, Physical, or > Analytical area. We thought, perhaps, that there might be someone who > could deliver a semiar on Safety similar to a semiar on research project/area. > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > Susan L. > > Susan K. Lauterbach, M.S. > Coordinator, Instructional Laboratories and Facility Safety > University of Oklahoma > Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry > 620 Parrington Oval, Room 208 > Norman, OK 73019 > Phone: 405-325-2742 > FAX: 405-325-6111 > e-mail: sklauterbach@ou.eduHow about a lawyer. A good liability talk always perks up the safety conscience. If the school has a lawyer thats even better Melonee Cruse Chaffey community College Rancho Cucamonga, CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:11:57 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Neal Langerman Subject: Re: JAK's HAZMAT SHIPPING CLASS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As I said, October 19 in Saan Diego. All of these things will be discussed, and more. Contact me directly for cost (very reasonable) and location. Neal At 10:03 AM 9/7/98 -0600, you wrote: >I would be very interested in such a class. Would like to see several >things addressed: > >1) The rest of the world does not use the NA designations that the DOT >uses. Rather, they only use the UN hazard numbers only. As a result, a >material that has a DOT NA number associated does not always have a >comparable UN number. How do you determine hazard classes for overseas >shipments? >2) Airline shipments. I have been told that some combustibles (e.g. >class II and class III-A) which have flashpoints below 200 degrees F must >still be marked as flammables when shipped on airlines. Where can this (and >other related information) be found? >3) When information on a particular chemical is not available as to the >hazard code that must be assigned a) in the US and b) in the world, what >steps would be prudent in determining how best to ship materials safely? >4) DOT Training requirements for various types of facilities. For >instance, there are facilities that drive materials around on their premises >and those that receive chemicals at a loading dock without further >transport. Also, there is the transport out of the facility training >issues. In any case, having a matrix that describes the training >requirements for all of these scenarios would be a help. > >I'm sure there are more issues that would need to be addressed in such a >class. Let us know if you will offer one. > >Thanks! > >Helen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Labsafe@AOL.COM [SMTP:Labsafe@AOL.COM] > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 1998 6:52 AM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: SHIPPING OF RESEARCH SAMPLES > > In a message dated 98-09-03 13:44:22 EDT, you write: > > << someone else out there may know where such training is available; >>> > > LSW can provide training in the area of shipment of hazardous >materials. > Would there be enough interest to offer such a course at New Safety >'99 > in January or perhaps sooner? ... jim > > ***************************************************** > James A. Kaufman, President > The Laboratory Safety Workshop > 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 > 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com > Safety in Science Education > > The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational > organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and > important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory > Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, >seminar > schedule, and membership information are available on request. > > The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. > Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG > >********************************************************************** > > ********************************************* NEAL LANGERMAN ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY 8909 C Complex Drive San Diego, CA 92123-1002 619-874-5577 619-874-8239 (FAX) chemsaf@ix.netcom.com NEW and REVISED! Visit our Home Page: http://www.chemical-safety.com http:\\www.chemical-safety.com The Source for the prevention of injury, illness and environmental insult! ********************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:00:03 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Paula Ortiz Subject: pregnancy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All! I have another question for the group. Does anyone have a policy concerning pregnant students in biology and chemistry laboratory classes? We are concerned because our curriculum encompasses the use of hazardous chemicals in chemistry as well as certain biology labs, i.e. Human Anatomy & Physiology. We also teach Microbiology and work with infectious agents. Can anyone provide any guidance or send me a copy of your policy concerning this matter? Thank You... Paula Ortiz Science Laboratory Technician Washington State Community College 710 Colegate Dr. Marietta, OH 45750 phone: 1-740-374-8716 e-mail: portiz@wscc.edu fax: 1-740-373-7496 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:09:02 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Re: New CHO Book In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jim, Any chance you could bring one of these with you to Galveston? I'd like to look at it first but will probably take it off your hands there. Thanks, JNR >"Living with the Laboratory Standard: a guide for chemical hygiene officers" >has just been published by the ACS. It contains the standard itself (without >appendices), discussion of the requirements, a glossary, references, a list of >federal regulations affecting laboratories, and forms and descriptions for >compliance. The 48-page, 8x11 booklet lists for $25.00 including shipping and >handling. > >NACHO members can save 30% by ordering from LSW. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:54:49 -0300 Reply-To: damar@wkve.com.br Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Damaris Silveira Duarte Subject: Re: pregnancy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This year I had two pregnancy cases in my Experimental Organic class. As we hadn't any policy about it, I explained the harzard to them and suggested to both students close their application until the end of pregnancy. One of them did it, but the other refused the suggestion. I notified the Director of the College about the cases and during the classes she only watched her colleagues as far as possible to the bench. But in my opinion, the pregnant shouldn't be in the lab. I never would put my child life in danger. Dâmaris Silveira Duarte Centro de Ciências Exatas e Tecnológicas -CECET Universidade Vale do Rio Doce - UNIVALE rua Moreira Sales, 850, Vila Bretas Governador Valadares -Minas Gerais - Brasil CEP 35032-130 Tel: 55 033 2213090 ext.313 Fax: 55 033 2213185 e-mail: damaris@mail.univale.br damar@wkve.com.br lychnos@dedalus.lcc.ufmg.br > I have another question for the group. Does anyone have a policy > concerning pregnant students in biology and chemistry laboratory classes? > We are concerned because our curriculum encompasses the use of hazardous > chemicals in chemistry as well as certain biology labs, i.e. Human Anatomy > & Physiology. We also teach Microbiology and work with infectious agents. > Can anyone provide any guidance or send me a copy of your policy concerning > this matter? > > Thank You... > > Paula Ortiz > Science Laboratory Technician > Washington State Community College > 710 Colegate Dr. > Marietta, OH 45750 > phone: 1-740-374-8716 > e-mail: portiz@wscc.edu > fax: 1-740-373-7496 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:06:47 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Gillian Gardner Subject: Re: pregnancy In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980909150003.006b5c5c@wscc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII While I don't have a formal written policy, I do ask that students come see me if they know or suspect they might be pregnant. The primary hazards are fumes from organic solvents (especially halogenated solvents such as chloroform), heavy metals, and radioactivity, as well as any toxins which can be absorbed through the skin. In our courses, I would be comfortable with a pregnant student in our environmental chemistry course for nonmajors or even our first semester general chemistry course. However, I have advised pregnant students in the past to avoid organic chemistry lab because of fumes. We also have a lab in second semester general chemistry that involves production of small amounts of bromine fumes and, again, I would advise a student in that course to miss that experiment. Gillian Gardner Lewis & Clark College Disclaimer: These opinions are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Lewis & Clark College. On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Paula Ortiz wrote: > Hi All! > > I have another question for the group. Does anyone have a policy > concerning pregnant students in biology and chemistry laboratory classes? > We are concerned because our curriculum encompasses the use of hazardous > chemicals in chemistry as well as certain biology labs, i.e. Human Anatomy > & Physiology. We also teach Microbiology and work with infectious agents. > Can anyone provide any guidance or send me a copy of your policy concerning > this matter? > > Thank You... > > Paula Ortiz > Science Laboratory Technician > Washington State Community College > 710 Colegate Dr. > Marietta, OH 45750 > phone: 1-740-374-8716 > e-mail: portiz@wscc.edu > fax: 1-740-373-7496 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:34:51 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Melonee Cruse Organization: Chaffey College Subject: [Fwd: Re: pregnancy] MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3EF75CEC4A5" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3EF75CEC4A5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I replied to the email about pregnancy in the lab and sent it directly to Paula. After reading the responses I thought someone might be interested in hearing my response. I am forwarding the message I sent to her. --------------3EF75CEC4A5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Message-ID: <35F71DA2.32C9@chaffey.cc.ca.us> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 17:30:26 -0700 From: Melonee Cruse Organization: Chaffey College X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: portiz@wscc.edu Subject: Re: pregnancy References: <3.0.3.32.19980909150003.006b5c5c@wscc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paula Ortiz wrote: > > Hi All! > > I have another question for the group. Does anyone have a policy > concerning pregnant students in biology and chemistry laboratory classes? > We are concerned because our curriculum encompasses the use of hazardous > chemicals in chemistry as well as certain biology labs, i.e. Human Anatomy > & Physiology. We also teach Microbiology and work with infectious agents. > Can anyone provide any guidance or send me a copy of your policy concerning > this matter? > > Thank You... > > Paula Ortiz > Science Laboratory Technician > Washington State Community College > 710 Colegate Dr. > Marietta, OH 45750 > phone: 1-740-374-8716 > e-mail: portiz@wscc.edu > fax: 1-740-373-7496Hi, At the Chaffey Community College chemistry department we have developed a Pregnancy Release form. It consist of a written release form that must be signed by the physician and a list of chemicals the student will be exposed to in the lab. We do not list the amounts used, just the name of the chemical, even the demonstration chemicals. The release form states that the student listed will be exposed to the following chemicals. We leave a space for their commments. Many doctors have signed the release form. We include our phone number should they have questions. To date none have called us. I have found that the ones that do not sign the form are foreign doctors ( I can only tell by their names). We do not allow the students to work until we have the form and they must be the orginals. We have had several women come through the lab and we make sure we help them as they are working in the lab, we tell them to get plenty of air and if the chemicals are hazardous we tell them to work with a partner and just record data. So far it has worked well. I worked nearly eight and a half months in the lab during my second pregnancy. My kid is nuts but its genetic! If you have any questions call me at (909) 941-2387 or email Melonee Cruse Chaffey Community College Chemistry Stockroom mcruse@chaffey.cc.ca.us --------------3EF75CEC4A5-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:53:54 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: pregnancy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-09 14:53:11 EDT, you write: << Does anyone have a policy concerning pregnant students in biology and chemistry laboratory classes? >> JAK: There was quite an animated discussion on this topic a few months ago. The messages are in the archives (I think). And, I saved them in a file which I will be happy to send to anyone who asks me off-line (directly). Please do not send requests for this file to the whole list. I'm trying harder and haven't done it (personal messages to the whole list) in at least a week! ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 06:33:27 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Visorgogs Comments: To: Safety , NAOSMM@LISTSERV.RICE.EDU, dchas-l@SIU.EDU, CHEMCOM@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Recently, on the CHEMED discussion list someone asked about comfortable goggles. Someone else recommended Visorgogs. I responded..... << Chemical splash protection in the lab must be from "chemical splash goggles". The problem with Visorgogs is that they are not "chemical splash goggles". According to the ANSI Z-87.1 standard, which is the basis for most state and the federal eye protection law, chemical splash goggles do not allow direct access to the eye. Most Visorgogs that I've seen allow you to stick your whole finger in your eye. Imagine what acid or base would do. >> What's your view on Visorgogs? ... jim PS. A one-day lab safety seminar will be held next Wedneday in Galveston, Texas in conjunction with the Gulf Coast Conference. ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zb02.mx.aol.com (rly-zb02.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.2]) by air-zb01.mail.aol.com (v49.1) with SMTP; Wed, 09 Sep 1998 23:52:44 2000 Received: from smtp-relay.colpal.com (gw-out1.cpwin.com [192.132.225.129]) by rly-zb02.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with SMTP id XAA05644 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imagate.colpal.com by smtp-relay.colpal.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) >> ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 06:36:36 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Andrew Szilagyi Subject: Re[2]: pregnancy This subject (somewhat more related to employment rather than students) elicited a host of hot and heavy (sort of what led up to the situation to begin with) discussions. Lots of very strong feelings on both sides of the camp - you may want to look back in the archives about 6 or so months ago. andrew.szilagyi@em.doe.gov ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: pregnancy Author: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU at INTERNET Date: 9/9/98 7:06 PM While I don't have a formal written policy, I do ask that students come see me if they know or suspect they might be pregnant. The primary hazards are fumes from organic solvents (especially halogenated solvents such as chloroform), heavy metals, and radioactivity, as well as any toxins which can be absorbed through the skin. In our courses, I would be comfortable with a pregnant student in our environmental chemistry course for nonmajors or even our first semester general chemistry course. However, I have advised pregnant students in the past to avoid organic chemistry lab because of fumes. We also have a lab in second semester general chemistry that involves production of small amounts of bromine fumes and, again, I would advise a student in that course to miss that experiment. Gillian Gardner Lewis & Clark College Disclaimer: These opinions are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Lewis & Clark College. On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Paula Ortiz wrote: > Hi All! > > I have another question for the group. Does anyone have a policy > concerning pregnant students in biology and chemistry laboratory classes? > We are concerned because our curriculum encompasses the use of hazardous > chemicals in chemistry as well as certain biology labs, i.e. Human Anatomy > & Physiology. We also teach Microbiology and work with infectious agents. > Can anyone provide any guidance or send me a copy of your policy concerning > this matter? > > Thank You... > > Paula Ortiz > Science Laboratory Technician > Washington State Community College > 710 Colegate Dr. > Marietta, OH 45750 > phone: 1-740-374-8716 > e-mail: portiz@wscc.edu > fax: 1-740-373-7496 > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 07:32:48 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Thomas J. Shelley" Subject: Re: pregnancy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Colleagues--I also responded privately to Paula and felt that my response might be useful to the entire list. Tom >Hi All! > >I have another question for the group. Does anyone have a policy >concerning pregnant students in biology and chemistry laboratory classes? >We are concerned because our curriculum encompasses the use of hazardous >chemicals in chemistry as well as certain biology labs, i.e. Human Anatomy >& Physiology. We also teach Microbiology and work with infectious agents. >Can anyone provide any guidance or send me a copy of your policy concerning >this matter? Paula--This topic has come up, more than once, on the SAFETY mailing list. Please check the SAFETY archieves at: http://siri.uvm.edu/mail/ You should get some useful information. Essentially, you can't require a pregant woman to _not_ work in a lab nor can you have a policy that prevents a pregant wormen from working in labs. Sometimes the level of hazardous chemical use is reduced or they are given lighter duties, but if a woman wants to continue working with trimethyl death when she is pregnant that is her decision. If all lab workers are properly protected from the chemical hazards they face, via the Lab Standard and the PPE Standards, then all workers are treated equally and are protected equally, pregnant or not. If you have additional questions you should consult the Counsel for your institution and have them review the regulations in your state. Students should have, and probably do have, the same rights as paid employees. Doesn't this present some interesting challenges?? Have a great day. Tom Shelley ************************************************************* Tom Shelley, Chemical Hygiene Officer, Cornell University, Department of Environmental Health and Safety, 125 Humphreys Service Building, Ithaca, NY 14853. (607) 255-4288 tjs1@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:36:00 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Tayman, Tammy" Subject: Re: pregnancy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Here is a response from our resident liability expert: This is a very difficult question. On one hand, the courts will hold the university (department, faculty member) to the care that a reasonable and prudent individual with similar training and experience would exercise. Thus we are expected to provide a safer environment than a non chemist/biologist would. On the other hand, there is no way that a faculty member can exclude a student from full participation in the class based on her pregnancy. The student has the right and the responsibility to decide about her own risk taking. These two principles are in conflict and form a lose-lose situation for the teacher. In reality, it may even be a bit worse than described above. I have heard that offspring have until 3 years after reaching majority to sue for damages. Think of the women whose mothers were exposed to DES, predict the mood of the courts in another 20 years or so, then decide what kind of insurance you want. The best course of action probabbly is to be very pro-active. Inform the student early on about the dangers she and her baby may face. Provide as much information as you possibly can. If equally valid learning experiences are available, use them. Provide as much PPE as possible. Tell the student you will work with her, her family, her health care giver and her support system to aid her in making the best decision she can. (Frequently a physician will issue a flat prohibition against anything "chemical".) If you want to hear something really scary, let me tell you about an adjunct faculty who did not disclose her pregnancy when she was hired as an organic laboratory teacher! ---------- From: Paula Ortiz To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: pregnancy Date: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 3:00PM Hi All! I have another question for the group. Does anyone have a policy concerning pregnant students in biology and chemistry laboratory classes? We are concerned because our curriculum encompasses the use of hazardous chemicals in chemistry as well as certain biology labs, i.e. Human Anatomy & Physiology. We also teach Microbiology and work with infectious agents. Can anyone provide any guidance or send me a copy of your policy concerning this matter? Thank You... Paula Ortiz Science Laboratory Technician Washington State Community College 710 Colegate Dr. Marietta, OH 45750 phone: 1-740-374-8716 e-mail: portiz@wscc.edu fax: 1-740-373-7496 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:06:06 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Goggles Comments: To: chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Marcy Towns wrote..... From: Marcy Towns <00mhtowns@bsu.edu> To: chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.ede I have been reading the goggle discussion with great interest. Evidently there are institututions which do allow visorgogs and even regular eye glasses in the laboratory. What exactly are the ANSI Z-87 standard, and are all states required to follow the mandate it contains? JAK: ANSI is the American National Standards Institute. The Z-87.1 standard is the one on eye and face protection in education and industry. It's 30-40 pages long and describes the specifications for the devices and which device is appropriate for which application. Since OSHA incorporates the ANSI Z-87.1 in its own eye protection standard, the ANSI standard applies to all private sector employers in all states. Stephen Marsden wrote..... From: "Stephen R. Marsden" To: chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu According to the Flinn catalog, the Visorgogs meet the ANSI Z87.1 standard, although there is a -1989 after that (whatever that means). I'm sure someone will be happy to explain that to all of us. JAK: Flinn is correct. It meets the standard. However, that does not mean it is appropriate for all types of activities. For example, clearly it is not intended for protection in welding. The distinction that is being made here is between an impact goggle and a chemical splash goggle. Impact goggles allow direct access to the eye. Chemical splash goggles do not allow direct access to the eye. Impact goggles are appropriate for use in a shop. Chemical splash goggles are appropriate for protection against a chemical splash. The users must select the device which ANSI says is appropriate for the particular application. The dates after the Z-87.1 are the year of the revision. Stephen continued..... We had tremendous problems with fogging on the usual splash goggles despite all advertisements to the contrary (our nervous little 10th grade boys in particular....). Although our decision may not be for everyone, we judged it better to have goggles through which students could see and which they WOULD wear without constant harping. JAK: The problem I see here is two fold. First, in the event of an accident resulting in an injury and a subsequent law suit, the school will be considered negligent for not providing and requiring the proper protective equipment. Second, is the issue of enforcement of safety rules. I suspect that most schools would not allow their students to go barefoot no matter how much their nervous little 10th graders' feet were sweating. Why, because the perception of risk is high and it is easily identified as very bad practice. Allowing students to wear either safety glasses or impact goggles in a chemical splash situation is also very bad practice. These two examples lie on a continum of choices about personal protective equipment which is influence by our perception about the relative risk. And Finally, Jerry Clarke wrote on the SAFETY List.... Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:23:09 -0500 From: "Clark, Jerry H" Colleagues, Read the box that the visorgogs come in. The language goes something like... "for protection against dust and eyestrain from overhead lights..." These are not chemical protective goggles. We have chased the visorgogs out of our labs and after trying many different styles, settled on ENCON 500 goggles. We get a good price from Lane Fire and Safety in Buffalo (about 1/2 the catalog prices). Jerome Clark, Environmental Health & Safety Officer Le Moyne College, Syracuse, NY (315) 445-4536 JAK: Thank you ... Jerry. ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:06:41 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Hal Grunenwald Subject: Re: Goggles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Doesn't it come down to the activity? If you or the student are working with spashable chemicals then full coverage goggles are a must. Send the Visorgogs to the Physics and industrial arts lab. I would also allow them in Bio where the main hazard is particle, even though chemicals are involved(formalin treated specimens). In truth I am more concerned with volatile chemicals and contact lenses in chem labs. Even though I harp on the issue of chemical exposure and how the chemical can get trapped behind the contact I can't get students to not wear them in lab. Many claim they don't own glasses or never speak up or let me know that they wear them. Hal Grunenwald ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:20:12 -0500 Reply-To: okeeffeb@advancia.com Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Barbara O'Keeffe Organization: Advancia Corporation Subject: Re: Goggles Comments: To: Hal Grunenwald In-Reply-To: <63ea4751.35f91251@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Doesn't it come down to the activity? If you or the student are working > with spashable chemicals then full coverage goggles are a must. Send the > Visorgogs to the Physics and industrial arts lab. I would also allow them > in Bio where the main hazard is particle, even though chemicals are > involved(formalin treated specimens). In truth I am more concerned with > volatile chemicals and contact lenses in chem labs. Even though I harp on > the issue of chemical exposure and how the chemical can get trapped behind > the contact I can't get students to not wear them in lab. Many claim they > don't own glasses or never speak up or let me know that they wear them. > Hal Grunenwald Hal, You might want to reread the last couple of issues of CHAS - - the ACS has rightly corrected its position on contacts in lab. There is NO, repeat no, evidence of contacts being a problem in labs. A lot of the tales that have been repeated are just that - tales. Second, I believe that your characterization of Biology labs are incorrect - - there are a lot of chemicals used in the labs, though in much, much smaller amounts than in chemistry labs. Barb Barbara O'Keeffe Advancia Corporation, 211 SW "A" Ave., Lawton, OK 73501 voice: 580-355-1471 fax: 580-357-9360 e-mail: okeeffeb@advancia.com http://www.advancia.com ***bits of wisdom, trivia & misplaced comments* ***are mine - - no one else wants them* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:21:36 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Goggles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I find the discussion on goggles and PPE compliance in general, amazing. It just seems like a no brainer to me. If you are told that a risk is identified and you are given a means to protect yourself from possible harm, wouldn't you just do it? I do. Sometimes I feel like I am on a crusade to save faculty and students from themselves! We had several students require treatment for flying chunks of preserved tissue in their eyes last year in our gross anatomy lab. One student was treated at the emergency room due to the embalming fluid that accompanied the tissue. Over the summer, we implemented a lab specific CHP for anatomy. The faculty were involved from step one. We had a couple of very good meetings where PhD's asked me why formaldehyde was so bad and how did we know. I had very good answers(I did my homework). Happy ending. Lab started last week and eye wear was the rule. I'm not saying everyone was in goggles. Students transferring liquids were. Everyone else had safety glasses. We took great care to closely evaluated the types of activities that take place in the lab and designed PPE for each different task. These are med students and residents, not freshmen. While this method is more labor intensive and requires more vigilance and training/education, I feel it has lead to a higher degree of compliance and true understanding for the requirements. I am very pleased with the start of the semester and hope I can report to you all that we had no accidents at the end of the course. I will keep you posted. For what its worth, Janeen. Janeen Lapierre, CHO-COM University of New England 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, Me 04005 207-283-0170 JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:37:04 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: CHEMICAL SENSITIVITIES Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain HELP. Where can I find information on Chemical Sensitivities or how to deal with sensitized individuals in the work place? I fear the goggles issue is only one of my crusades and like you, I have stumbling blocks when it comes to getting people to do what is in their best interest(never mind the regs.) I need to know what's in the scientific literature about current trends in treatment and protection. It seems my concerns for a sensitized individual are seen as unfounded. So I must do my homework and prepare a justification for my view. By the way, I don't think this person should be working in the lab and I feel their office needs to be relocated to another area that has separate air circulation from the lab. The sensitivity has been diagnosed by a doctor and the individual was out on medical leave earlier this year. Now that the lab is in full swing, they are having decreased pulmonary functions again. Are there any web sites you could recommend to me for info? Have any of you had a similar situation? How did you handle it? I would greatly appreciate any info you can send my way. Thanks, Janeen. Janeen Lapierre, CHO-COM University of New England 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 (207)283-0170 ext 2446 JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:44:38 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Harry Elston Subject: Re: Goggles Comments: To: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:21 AM 9/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >Sometimes I feel like I am on a crusade to save faculty and students from >themselves! You are. Safety, like any "new" concept is always met with great resistance from the 100 year old tenured curmudgeons who still pass around a beaker of benzene when they start talking about aromatic compounds in first semester organic chemistry. It takes the patience of a saint to convince others the real need to be safe. > The faculty were involved from step one. We had a couple of very good meetings >where PhD's asked me why formaldehyde was so bad and how did we know. I >had very good answers(I did my homework). It has been my experience that those with a Ph.D. are the worst offenders and hardest to train. "It never happened to me, and I have a Ph.D. Who the hell are you to tell me how to do my research?" is the standard line I've heard in the past. I'm glad you had ready answers to their questions. You probably gained a great deal of credibility with the faculty and staff for it. Good thinking! You're doing a great job! >For what it's worth Actually, it's worth a great deal to know that the problems we face on a daily basis are not unique to our situation or station. That is what this group is for, and you're doing a fantastic job! Keep it up. Harry Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO Chemical Hygiene Officer Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety Opinions are mine, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah "God made all those stars out of nothin'. He just 'pfffft' and there they were." -Larry the Cucumber, Veggie Tales ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:47:40 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Harry Elston Subject: Re: CHEMICAL SENSITIVITIES Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:37 AM 9/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >HELP. > >Where can I find information on Chemical Sensitivities or how to deal with sensitized individuals in the work place? There was a whole section of talks devoted to this topic at the most recent ACS meeting. Unfortunately, I was already on my way back to central IL when they were held. Anyone out there (Mary Ann, perhaps) have some e-mail addresses of those who spoke and might be able to help Janeen? Harry Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO Chemical Hygiene Officer Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety Opinions are mine, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah "God made all those stars out of nothin'. He just 'pfffft' and there they were." -Larry the Cucumber, Veggie Tales ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:01:40 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: CHEMICAL SENSITIVITIES In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Get yourself a copy of the book by Dr C Miller and N Ashford, Chemical Exposures, Low Levels and High Stakes, pub. early this yr by Van Nostrand Reinhold. Their credentials are gold, and they have an extensive bibliography. There are patient web sites, some filled with misinformation. Try the book. There was a 2 day meeting of Am Chem Soc this Aug. that had a 2 day symposium on MCS. Some time before proceedings are published. You can see abstracts on ACS site at acs.org and follow it to Boston meeting and AGRO division. Mary Ann At 10:37 AM 9/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >HELP. > >Where can I find information on Chemical Sensitivities or how to deal with sensitized individuals in the work place? > >I fear the goggles issue is only one of my crusades and like you, I have stumbling blocks when it comes to getting people to do what is in their best interest(never mind the regs.) I need to know what's in the scientific literature about current trends in treatment and protection. It seems my concerns for a sensitized individual are seen as unfounded. So I must do my homework and prepare a justification for my view. > >By the way, I don't think this person should be working in the lab and I feel their office needs to be relocated to another area that has separate air circulation from the lab. The sensitivity has been diagnosed by a doctor and the individual was out on medical leave earlier this year. Now that the lab is in full swing, they are having decreased pulmonary functions again. > >Are there any web sites you could recommend to me for info? > >Have any of you had a similar situation? How did you handle it? > >I would greatly appreciate any info you can send my way. Thanks, Janeen. > >Janeen Lapierre, CHO-COM >University of New England >11 Hills Beach Road >Biddeford, ME 04005 > >(207)283-0170 ext 2446 >JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU > Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority DivCHAS Chair, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:21:02 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Re: Goggles In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980911104343.37b74ece@fgi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ditto to all this. Many of us share similar problems and attitudes, and entrenched faculty are indeed a challenge, but it's amazing what persistence can accomplish. If you can get even a few faculty on the bandwagon, peer pressure can be very effective. In the meantime, you'll be able to see the difference you make, and others will, too. In the past week I've actually had faculty in three different departments REQUEST surprise inspections so they could help drive some principles home to their lab employees/students. Keep it up, JNR >At 10:21 AM 9/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Sometimes I feel like I am on a crusade to save faculty and students from >>themselves! Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS College of Natural Sciences G2500 W.C. Hogg Building University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712-1199 (512) 471-6176 (O) (512) 471-4998 (F) jrubin@mail.utexas.edu "The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise specified." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:37:00 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Debbie Decker Subject: Re: Goggles In-Reply-To: <63ea4751.35f91251@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:06 AM 9/11/98 EDT, you wrote: >Doesn't it come down to the activity? If you or the student are working with >spashable chemicals then full coverage goggles are a must. Send the Visorgogs >to the Physics and industrial arts lab. I would also allow them in Bio where >the main hazard is particle, even though chemicals are involved(formalin >treated specimens). In truth I am more concerned with volatile chemicals and >contact lenses in chem labs. Even though I harp on the issue of chemical >exposure and how the chemical can get trapped behind the contact I can't get >students to not wear them in lab. Many claim they don't own glasses or never >speak up or let me know that they wear them. >Hal Grunenwald > The American Chemical Society has changed their stance on contact lenses in labs (being a contact lens wearer and a chemist, I follow this issue very closely). Based on the latest research and advice from the American Ophthalmic Association, there is no evidence to suggest that chemicals are held against the eye by contact lenses or that contact lenses increase eye injury when chemicals are splashed in the eye. Check Chemical Health and Safety magazine, May/June 1998 for the ACS advisory. Eileen Segal has published several review articles in Chemical Health and Safety and in other publications on contact lens use. The recommendation is for EVERYONE in labs to wear appropriate eye protection. Period. I always informed my professors and labmates that I was a contact lens wearer and I am scrupulous about my eye protection. I have worked with energetic materials, explosives and pyrotechnics, pesticides, and managed the hazardous waste collection program for a medium-sized university in California. I have NEVER had any chemical splash to my eye nor have I ever had any chemical vapors concentrate under my contact lenses (in 20+ years of contact lens use). Sorry to hop up on my soap box but I feel it my duty, nay, my crusade to update the world on the latest on contact lenses. :-) Debbie Debbie Decker EH&S UCDavis (530)754-7964 dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:32:19 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: Goggles In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980911103700.007c8d90@scarlet.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:37 AM 9/11/98 -0700, you wrote: ...> >Sorry to hop up on my soap box but I feel it my duty, nay, my crusade > to update the world on the latest on contact lenses. :-) > >Debbie > > >Debbie Decker >EH&S UCDavis >(530)754-7964 >dmdecker@ucdavis.edu > Eileen S and I both salute you!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:33:28 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Thomas J. Shelley" Subject: Re: CHEMICAL SENSITIVITIES In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980911104647.099fd748@fgi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >At 10:37 AM 9/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >>HELP. >> >>Where can I find information on Chemical Sensitivities or how to deal with >sensitized individuals in the work place? > >There was a whole section of talks devoted to this topic at the most recent >ACS meeting. Unfortunately, I was already on my way back to central IL when >they were held. Anyone out there (Mary Ann, perhaps) have some e-mail >addresses of those who spoke and might be able to help Janeen? > >Harry I also was at the ACS meeting and was unable to attend these sessions. Are proceedings going to be published, as in a collection of papers? The whole area of MCS is going to mushroom and hit us in the forehead like a slushy snowball befre we know it. I told some of our staff today that it's going to be the next CTS!! Just what we needed...... Gee, I'm glad it's Friday! Tom Shelley ************************************************************* Tom Shelley, Chemical Hygiene Officer, Cornell University, Department of Environmental Health and Safety, 125 Humphreys Service Building, Ithaca, NY 14853. (607) 255-4288 tjs1@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 17:28:13 +0000 Reply-To: maddenje@bc.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "John G. Madden" Subject: Compliance strategies at Universities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi I am seeking information from college/university personnel (Faculty, CHO's, Administrators, Health and Safety Directors etc) about actual policy enforcement practices or strategies that you are aware of or are a participant in. The policy is not the issue - the compliance is. For instance, that we have a policy that safety glasses must be worn at all times in a research lab doesn't mean that researchers in that lab always comply. Handing a "demerit card" to those caught in violation is not reasonable or fair; trying to shut the lab down is extreme; scolding the PI is not P.C.; shrugging and walking away is not conscientious. How are lab safety rules at other universities enforced? Can you tell me what style of enforcement is customary at your institution? Is the enforcement left up to the PI/lab director/supervisor? Can you share any actual practices that address the issue of compliance enforcement that are creative, positive and successful? Answers to these questions will help orient our department's safety committee to what others are doing and may give us ideas to put into practice. If you send responses to me personally, I will gladly summarize and share whatever I learn with interested parties or the group as a whole. ---------------------- John G. Madden Administrator Chemistry Dept. Boston College (617) 552-3608 maddenje@bc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 19:20:50 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: CHEMICAL SENSITIVITIES In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:33 PM 9/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >>At 10:37 AM 9/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>HELP. >>> >>>Where can I find information on Chemical Sensitivities or how to deal with >>sensitized individuals in the work place? >> >>There was a whole section of talks devoted to this topic at the most recent >>ACS meeting. Unfortunately, I was already on my way back to central IL when >>they were held. Anyone out there (Mary Ann, perhaps) have some e-mail >>addresses of those who spoke and might be able to help Janeen? >> >>Harry > >I also was at the ACS meeting and was unable to attend these sessions. Are >proceedings going to be published, as in a collection of papers? The whole >area of MCS is going to mushroom and hit us in the forehead like a slushy >snowball befre we know it. I told some of our staff today that it's going to >be the next CTS!! Just what we needed...... Gee, I'm glad it's Friday! >Tom Shelley Actually it was around before CTS, just not up in public awareness. Get the book by C Miller and N Ashford, Chemical Exposures, Low Levels and High Stakes, pub. earlier this year by Van Nostrand Reinhold. Neither one come under the category of kook. Their credentials are top notch. Actually that book is an extension of an earlier one by a similar name--get the later. As I said in an earlier post, go to the abstracts on the ACS web site. www.acs.org, then go to Boston meeting and abstracts in AGRO division. Avoiding severe overexposure should reduce the numbers who have it substantially. And it is possible to grow out of it. I did. Did library research for some years, after not being able to work for a year or so. No, no problem. I do avoid toiletries with perfume added, but that's not too difficult there days, and no smoking areas have been a blessing. Mary Ann >************************************************************* > >Tom Shelley, Chemical Hygiene Officer, Cornell University, >Department of Environmental Health and Safety, 125 Humphreys Service Building, >Ithaca, NY 14853. (607) 255-4288 tjs1@cornell.edu > Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority DivCHAS Chair, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 20:01:26 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Goggles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-11 08:07:27 EDT, you write: << Doesn't it come down to the activity? If you or the student are working with spashable chemicals then full coverage goggles are a must. >> JAK: What do you wear when you are not working with splashable chemicals and the only form of eye protection in your undergraduate lab are goggles? Since eye protection should be worn at all times in the lab, you wear the goggles all the time. <> JAK: I would not allow them in the Biology lab with formalin. << In truth I am more concerned with volatile chemicals and contact lenses in chem labs. Even though I harp on the issue of chemical exposure and how the chemical can get trapped behind the contact I can't get students to not wear them in lab. Many claim they don't own glasses or never speak up or let me know that they wear them. Hal Grunenwald >> JAK: Take a look at the new ACS policy statement in "Safety In Academic Chemistry Laboratories" which approves the use of contact lenses in labs. ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 20:01:23 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Visorgogs Comments: To: chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Here's what John Delahunt had to say about Visorgogs on the SAFETY discussion list. ... Jim Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:53:08 -0600 From: John Delahunt Subject: Re: Visorgogs << What's your view on Visorgogs? ... jim >> ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:07:03 -0000 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "L. James Stock III" <34EMQ6K@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Subject: Re: Compliance strategies at Universities Comments: To: maddenje@bc.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Safety violations are recorded, printed and displayed on the inside of all labs so corrections can be effected! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:50:22 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Julie O'Brien Subject: Trade Names Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does anyone know of a good resource for finding the manufacturer of chemicals that are only labeled by their trade names? I've already tried ChemSources, but didn't have any luck with one trade name that I was searching for. Julie O'Brien Chemist PCR, Inc. PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 ext. 232 afn35210@afn.org Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville PO Box 5951 Gainesville, FL 32627 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:07:46 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Madelyn Miller Subject: Re: Trade Names In-Reply-To: <199809141850.OAA28088@freenet5.afn.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Greetings, Try CCINFO . They are a bargin and a GREAT resource. $300 a year. I think they have what you want. Madelyn On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:50:22 -0400 Julie O'Brien wrote: > Does anyone know of a good resource for finding the manufacturer of > chemicals that are only labeled by their trade names? I've already tried > ChemSources, but didn't have any luck with one trade name that I was > searching for. > > Julie O'Brien > Chemist > PCR, Inc. > PO Box 1466 > Gainesville, FL 32602 > 352-376-8246 ext. 232 > afn35210@afn.org > > Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer > EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville > PO Box 5951 > Gainesville, FL 32627 ---------------------- Madelyn Miller Chemical Safety Specialist,CCHO Environmental Health & Safety Carnegie Mellon University mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:30:02 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Re: Trade Names In-Reply-To: <199809141850.OAA28088@freenet5.afn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For common chemicals, you could try the NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards ($14). The Merck Index ($45) is much more comprehensive, and lists patent holders. JNR >Does anyone know of a good resource for finding the manufacturer of >chemicals that are only labeled by their trade names? I've already tried >ChemSources, but didn't have any luck with one trade name that I was >searching for. > >Julie O'Brien >Chemist >PCR, Inc. >PO Box 1466 >Gainesville, FL 32602 >352-376-8246 ext. 232 >afn35210@afn.org > >Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer >EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville >PO Box 5951 >Gainesville, FL 32627 Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS College of Natural Sciences G2500 W.C. Hogg Building University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712-1199 (512) 471-6176 (O) (512) 471-4998 (F) (512) 875-2100 (pager) jrubin@mail.utexas.edu "If you steal from one author, it's plagiarism; if you steal from many, it's research." -- Wilson Mizner ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:07:21 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Howard Spencer Subject: Re: Trade Names MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The National Fire Protection Association has a standard on fire hazards of trade name liquids maybe # 325? > ---------- > From: Jeff Rubin[SMTP:jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU] > Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List > Sent: Monday, September 14, 1998 3:30 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: Trade Names > > For common chemicals, you could try the NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical > Hazards ($14). The Merck Index ($45) is much more comprehensive, and > lists > patent holders. > > JNR > > >Does anyone know of a good resource for finding the manufacturer of > >chemicals that are only labeled by their trade names? I've already > tried > >ChemSources, but didn't have any luck with one trade name that I was > >searching for. > > > >Julie O'Brien > >Chemist > >PCR, Inc. > >PO Box 1466 > >Gainesville, FL 32602 > >352-376-8246 ext. 232 > >afn35210@afn.org > > > >Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer > >EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville > >PO Box 5951 > >Gainesville, FL 32627 > > > Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS > College of Natural Sciences G2500 > W.C. Hogg Building > University of Texas at Austin > Austin, TX 78712-1199 > (512) 471-6176 (O) > (512) 471-4998 (F) > (512) 875-2100 (pager) > jrubin@mail.utexas.edu > > "If you steal from one author, it's plagiarism; if you steal from > many, > it's research." -- Wilson Mizner > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:36:52 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Trade Names Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-14 14:51:57 EDT, you write: << Does anyone know of a good resource for finding the manufacturer of chemicals that are only labeled by their trade names? I've already tried ChemSources, but didn't have any luck with one trade name that I was searching for. >> JAK: There used to be an organization in New Jersey. Something like the Forum for Excellence in Science Education. They published a book that had a lot of this in it. Perhaps someone else recalls the group. ... jim ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:22:31 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Russ Phifer Subject: Re: Trade Names The best source I have ever seen for tradenames was the CRC Press book entitled "Chemical Tradenames". This book was nothing but tradenames - about 400 pages of them. I have not seen it in a few years (my copy was absconded), and do not know if there is a recent edition. You might try contacting CRC Press in Boca Raton, FL.... Russ Phifer On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:36:52 EDT Labsafe@AOL.COM writes: >In a message dated 98-09-14 14:51:57 EDT, you write: > ><< Does anyone know of a good resource for finding the manufacturer of > chemicals that are only labeled by their trade names? I've already >tried > ChemSources, but didn't have any luck with one trade name that I was > searching for. >> > >JAK: There used to be an organization in New Jersey. Something like >the >Forum for Excellence in Science Education. They published a book that >had a >lot of this in it. > >Perhaps someone else recalls the group. ... jim > ***************************************************** > James A. Kaufman, President > The Laboratory Safety Workshop > 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 > 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com > Safety in Science Education > >The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational >organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and >important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory >Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar >schedule, and membership information are available on request. > > The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. > Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG > >********************************************************************** > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:49:41 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Sprinklered F cabinet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings, Can anyone provide a good reason why a compressed-gas cabinet with a fluorine cylinder should NOT be sprinklered? Off-line response would be fine, quick would be even better. Thanks, JNR Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS College of Natural Sciences G2500 W.C. Hogg Building University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712-1199 (512) 471-6176 (O) (512) 471-4998 (F) jrubin@mail.utexas.edu "The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise specified." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:13:18 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: F and sprinklers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sorry for not going into more detail on my F question, but I think I've got it covered. I was looking for some technology alternatives, which I have found. I am reasonably familiar with F reactivity, which unfortunately is creating a fair bit of anxiety on the part of people who don't understand how sprinklers work or why we have them in gas cabinets. To those who responded, thanks. JNR ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:42:01 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mark Smith Subject: odor thresholds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does anyone know a good source for referencing odor thresholds (lowest ppm in air detectable by smell, NOT the TLV). I know I am taking the easy way out on this one but I can't think of any place to look off hand. I am particularly interested in toluene and cyclohexane. Thanks, MS *************************************** MARK SMITH HENDRIX COLLEGE CHEMISTRY LABORATORY COORDINATOR CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER *************************************** 1600 Washington Ave Conway, AR 72032 501-450-3812 Fax : 501-450-3829 *************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:20:16 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike hinz Subject: Re: odor thresholds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" These are sometimes listed on the MSDS. Mike Hinz Chemistry Dept. Washington State University At 02:42 PM 9/15/98 -0600, you wrote: >Does anyone know a good source for referencing odor thresholds (lowest ppm >in air detectable by smell, NOT the TLV). I know I am taking the easy way >out on this one but I can't think of any place to look off hand. > >I am particularly interested in toluene and cyclohexane. > >Thanks, > >MS > >*************************************** > MARK SMITH > HENDRIX COLLEGE CHEMISTRY > LABORATORY COORDINATOR > CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER >*************************************** > 1600 Washington Ave > Conway, AR 72032 > 501-450-3812 > Fax : 501-450-3829 >*************************************** > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:44:02 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Robert Murphy Subject: Re: odor thresholds In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The American Industrial Hygiene Association publishes "Odor Thresholds for Chemicals with Established Occupational Health and Safety Standards" Contact them at (703) 849-8888 Cyclohexane's odor threshold has a geometric mean of 780 ppm (TLV of 300) Toluene's odor threshold has a geometric mean of 1.6 ppm (TLV of 100) Hope this helps. Bob At 02:42 PM 9/15/98 -0600, you wrote: >Does anyone know a good source for referencing odor thresholds (lowest ppm >in air detectable by smell, NOT the TLV). I know I am taking the easy way >out on this one but I can't think of any place to look off hand. > >I am particularly interested in toluene and cyclohexane. > >Thanks, > >MS > >*************************************** > MARK SMITH > HENDRIX COLLEGE CHEMISTRY > LABORATORY COORDINATOR > CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER >*************************************** > 1600 Washington Ave > Conway, AR 72032 > 501-450-3812 > Fax : 501-450-3829 >*************************************** > ****************************************** Robert Murphy, Industrial Hygienist Environmental Health and Safety Bowling Green State University Phone: (419) 372-2171 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:39:44 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Lampe Hannasch, Kay" Subject: Re: odor thresholds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Try the 3M Respirator Selection Guide. It's useful as a reference. ------------------------------------------------------------ Kay Lampe Hannasch, Safety Manager - Research Labs Pioneer Hi-Bred International, Inc. 7300 NW 62nd Avenue, PO Box 1004 Johnston, IA 50131-1004 Ph: 515-270-4139 Fax: 515-253-2478 The opinions expressed here are mine, not that of my employer. -----Original Message----- From: Mike hinz [mailto:mhinz@WSU.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 3:20 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: odor thresholds These are sometimes listed on the MSDS. Mike Hinz Chemistry Dept. Washington State University At 02:42 PM 9/15/98 -0600, you wrote: >Does anyone know a good source for referencing odor thresholds (lowest ppm >in air detectable by smell, NOT the TLV). I know I am taking the easy way >out on this one but I can't think of any place to look off hand. > >I am particularly interested in toluene and cyclohexane. > >Thanks, > >MS > >*************************************** > MARK SMITH > HENDRIX COLLEGE CHEMISTRY > LABORATORY COORDINATOR > CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER >*************************************** > 1600 Washington Ave > Conway, AR 72032 > 501-450-3812 > Fax : 501-450-3829 >*************************************** > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:54:54 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "David (Fuzz) Harrison" Subject: Re: odor thresholds In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mark: I haven't seen a response yet so I'll throw one out. The two handy references I use are: 1) "Odor Thresholds for Chemicals with Established Occupational Health Standards" (AIHA, 1989, $48 nonmember price), and 2) the US Coast Guard Chemical Hazards Response Information System (CHRIS Manual). Contact AIHA at (703) 849-8888; the CHRIS manual can be purchased through NTIS (I believe) at (703) 487-4660. Another reference I use is an article entitled "Odor as an Aid to Chemical Safety: Odor Thresholds Compared with Threshold Limit Values and Volatilities for 214 Industrial Chemicals in Air and Water Dilution," John E. Amoore and Earl Hautala, Journal of Applied Toxicology, Vol 3, No 6, 1983. As for the chemicals you mentioned... Toluene: 1.6 ppm geometric mean air odor threshold (detection threshold), 11 ppm g.m. air odor threshold (recognition threshold); 0.16-37 ppm range of acceptable values (AIHA). 0.17 ppm (CHRIS manual) Cyclohexane: 780 ppm g.m. air odor threshold (detection) (Note: Amoore and Hautala reported an air odor threshold of 25 ppm, and the CHRIS manual noted no data available.). Hope this helps. At 02:42 PM 9/15/98 -0600, you wrote: >Does anyone know a good source for referencing odor thresholds (lowest ppm >in air detectable by smell, NOT the TLV). I know I am taking the easy way >out on this one but I can't think of any place to look off hand. > >I am particularly interested in toluene and cyclohexane. > >Thanks, > >MS > >*************************************** > MARK SMITH > HENDRIX COLLEGE CHEMISTRY > LABORATORY COORDINATOR > CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER >*************************************** > 1600 Washington Ave > Conway, AR 72032 > 501-450-3812 > Fax : 501-450-3829 >*************************************** > Fuzz Harrison, Industrial Hygienist The Jackson Laboratory, 600 Main Street, Bar Harbor ME 04609-1500 (http://www.jax.org/) 207.288.6473 voice, 207.288.6147 fax, fdh@aretha.jax.org email ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:54:28 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Ahler Subject: Re: odor thresholds Comments: To: mhinz@WSU.EDU In-Reply-To: <199809152020.NAA22945@cheetah.it.wsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Re:" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark, There is a book out there entitled Handbook of Environmental Data on Organic Chemicals. I don't recall the author or publisher, but I did find it in the University Library here. Several years ago I wondered the same question you seem to be wondering now, and I acquired several copied pages of tables from this book. (No, I don't have a copy of the title page. Sorry.) Odor thresholds ( or Odor Indices) are highly subjective measurements ( like LD50's are) obtained using a "panel" of human detectors. The Odor Thresholds you presently seek are (approximately): for cyclohexane: between 0.1 ppm and 1 ppm for toluene: between 0.1 ppm and 50 ppm Cyclohexane seems to be a bit more detectable than toluene. Good Luck. Michael Ahler, CHO Risk Management Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, California ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:07:48 EDT Reply-To: "Dufresne-ENV, Lisa" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Dufresne-ENV, Lisa" Subject: DOT regs for self transporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here in Massachusetts, we have a VSQG (very small quantity generator) status for hazardous waste generators. Most of my work is with public schools, helping them comply with environmental regulations and teaching them pollution prevention (I work for the state agency that handles pollution prevention for all toxic users, though mainly industry, in a nonregulatory and confidential manner). Increasingly, schools are wanting to partipate in their town household hazardous waste collection. Under the VSQG regs, they can self transport their waste to these collections. I had a chat with someone at the DOT who told me that since this was not "commercial" transportation, their regs didn't cover this kind of transportation. I was happy to hear it, since it at least paves the way for the possibility of schools doing this. I have many concerns about this kind of transportation, however the recent discussion of DOT makes me wonder if it could be true that these hazardous materials (wastes actually) are not covered. Does anyone know otherwise, or have a suggestion as to whom else I could contact for verification? I'd actually like something in writing from DOT so I can give it to my schools. thanks! Lisa Dufresne MA Office of Technical Assistance for Toxics Use Reduction Boston, MA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:23:58 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: James Hermann Organization: Engineered Polymer Solutions (EPS), Inc. Subject: Re: DOT regs for self transporting Comments: To: "Dufresne-ENV, Lisa" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a new DOT regulation in 1998 that probably applies to these schools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: Dufresne-ENV, Lisa [SMTP:Lisa.Dufresne@state.ma.us] Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 11:08 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: DOT regs for self transporting Here in Massachusetts, we have a VSQG (very small quantity generator) status for hazardous waste generators. Most of my work is with public schools, helping them comply with environmental regulations and teaching them pollution prevention (I work for the state agency that handles pollution prevention for all toxic users, though mainly industry, in a nonregulatory and confidential manner). Increasingly, schools are wanting to partipate in their town household hazardous waste collection. Under the VSQG regs, they can self transport their waste to these collections. I had a chat with someone at the DOT who told me that since this was not "commercial" transportation, their regs didn't cover this kind of transportation. I was happy to hear it, since it at least paves the way for the possibility of schools doing this. I have many concerns about this kind of transportation, however the recent discussion of DOT makes me wonder if it could be true that these hazardous materials (wastes actually) are not covered. Does anyone know otherwise, or have a suggestion as to whom else I could contact for verification? I'd actually like something in writing from DOT so I can give it to my schools. thanks! Lisa Dufresne MA Office of Technical Assistance for Toxics Use Reduction Boston, MA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:34:59 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Teresa Robertson Organization: CSU Bakersfield Subject: definition of sternutator MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have a bottle of stuff that says "warning, sternutator". I can't find that word in my collection of glossaries. Does anyone know the definition? Thanks, Teresa Robertson CSUB CCHO trobertson@csubak.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:07:58 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Debbie Decker Subject: Re: definition of sternutator In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:34 AM 9/17/98 -0700, you wrote: >I have a bottle of stuff that says "warning, sternutator". I can't >find that word in my collection of glossaries. Does anyone know the >definition? >Thanks, Teresa Robertson >CSUB CCHO >trobertson@csubak.edu Since I can't make Excel do what I want, I'm procrastinating and I looked up your word in my favorite dictionary (American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language). It sez: Sternutator: n. A substance that irritates the nasal and respiratory passages and causes coughing, sneezing, lachrimation (tearing), and sometimes vomiting. Sternutation is the act of sneezing - from the Latin, sternutatio, to sneeze. Learn something new every day, doncha? Now back to Excel (miserable piece of ... )! Deb. Debbie Decker EH&S UCDavis (530)754-7964 dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:04:29 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Gonzalez, Lisa" Subject: Re: definition of sternutator MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Is it Sternulator? If so: Sternulator: An agent that induces sneezing and often lacrimation (tear producing) and vomiting. -----Original Message----- From: Teresa Robertson [SMTP:Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU] Sent: Thursday, September 17, 1998 12:35 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: definition of sternutator I have a bottle of stuff that says "warning, sternutator". I can't find that word in my collection of glossaries. Does anyone know the definition? Thanks, Teresa Robertson CSUB CCHO trobertson@csubak.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:06:21 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Gonzalez, Lisa" Subject: Re: definition of sternutator MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Oops--- it is sternulator, my apology. -----Original Message----- From: Teresa Robertson [SMTP:Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU] Sent: Thursday, September 17, 1998 12:35 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: definition of sternutator I have a bottle of stuff that says "warning, sternutator". I can't find that word in my collection of glossaries. Does anyone know the definition? Thanks, Teresa Robertson CSUB CCHO trobertson@csubak.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:04:37 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Wesley Kolar Subject: Re: definition of sternutator In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Taber's Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary defines sternutator as: " An agent, such as war gas, which induces sneezing. Wes Kolar UGA Environmental Safety Services At 09:34 AM 9/17/98 -0700, you wrote: >I have a bottle of stuff that says "warning, sternutator". I can't >find that word in my collection of glossaries. Does anyone know the >definition? >Thanks, Teresa Robertson >CSUB CCHO >trobertson@csubak.edu > Wes Kolar ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:42:59 -0500 Reply-To: ilerhd@emu.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "H. Darrell Iler" Organization: Eastern Mennonite University Subject: cadaver room and formalin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I have a question concerning the provision of adequate protection for students working on cadavers. We have two cadavers both preserved in formalin. Some students have commented (I won't say they have complained but have come close) about the odor and some eye irritation when working with these bodies. I know that formaldehyde is classified as a probable human carcinogen. We try to provide good ventilation but of course cannot remove the odor completely. Besides wearing goggles, gloves what protection do other institutions supply? We do not have a hood that is large enough to hold a cadver. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks Darrell Iler Dept of Chemistry Eastern Mennonite University ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:46:44 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Rama Singh Subject: NITROMETHANE EXPLOSION Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does anyone know about a situation where a mixture of nitromethane and calcium hydride exploded during the quenching process of the drying agent after the successful distillation of the solvent? I will very much appreciate hearing back from some of you who have worked with nitromethane in a Chemistry laboratory. I am looking for those of you who have distilled this solvent safely including the quenching process. I am also anxious to find those of you who have experienced explosion in a lab set up with this solvent. You have the choice to reply to me directly or on the line. Thank you. Rama Singh ---- Rama Singh Safety Coordinator The School of Physical Sciences Phone: 949-824-2518 Fax: 949-824-3891 Pager: 949-262-6710 e-mail:rpsingh@uci.edu ZOT CODE 4675 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:38:51 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Re: odor thresholds In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'll throw in one more: Handbook of Emergency Chemical Response, by David Quigley, 1994, CRC Press. It has a few hundred chemicals listed and includes phys/chem, toxicology, fire/spill, PPE, and a few other odds and ends. Odor thresholds are listed in mg/m3. Not exhaustive, but a useful combination in a user-friendly format. I'll bet you can get it from Jim at a nice discount... JNR >Does anyone know a good source for referencing odor thresholds (lowest ppm >in air detectable by smell, NOT the TLV). I know I am taking the easy way >out on this one but I can't think of any place to look off hand. Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS College of Natural Sciences G2500 W.C. Hogg Building University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712-1199 (512) 471-6176 (O) (512) 471-4998 (F) jrubin@mail.utexas.edu "The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise specified." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:49:34 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Madelyn Miller Subject: Re: cadaver room and formalin Comments: To: ilerhd@emu.edu In-Reply-To: <199809181346.JAA15360@inserv1.emu.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Greetings, The PEL for formaldehyde is 0.75 ppm. Many facilities that use cadavers have something called a "down draft table" where slots around the table pull air away from the students and the body. A fume hood will not work because the vapors will be drawn past the people. That is why the down draft system works on cadavers, it takes the fumes away from the people. Hope this helps. Madelyn On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:42:59 -0500 "H. Darrell Iler" wrote: > I have a question concerning the provision of adequate protection for > students working on cadavers. We have two cadavers both preserved in > formalin. Some students have commented (I won't say they have > complained but have come close) about the odor and some eye > irritation when working with these bodies. I know that formaldehyde > is classified as a probable human carcinogen. We try to provide good > ventilation but of course cannot remove the odor completely. Besides > wearing goggles, gloves what protection do other institutions supply? > We do not have a hood that is large enough to hold a cadver. Any > comments or suggestions would be appreciated. > > Thanks > > Darrell Iler > Dept of Chemistry > Eastern Mennonite University ---------------------- Madelyn Miller Chemical Safety Specialist,CCHO Environmental Health & Safety Carnegie Mellon University mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:54:48 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "David C. Finster" Organization: Wittenberg University Subject: Cadavers, formalin, and PELs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Safety netters, The comments about cadavers, formalin vapors in a teaching environment prompt the following query. First, I take it that a PEL value is generated primarily from models of toxicity coupled with data on animals and/or humans. The final value is an estimate (perhaps with significant uncertainty associated with it) of the upper limit for "safe" level of inhalation of a substance assuming that one is inhaling this substance repeatedly over a long period of time. (I assume that the models clearly specify "repeatedly" and "long-term" in quantitative fashion, thus leading to a PEL with 2 sig figs.) This calculation makes sense to me for OSHA's purposes of protecting workers who may be in environments where chronic exposures are the danger. (Those trained in IH and EHS can do doubt state this situation better than I. I am an academic chemist with no formal training in IH who was appointed as CHO, like many folks, and now find myself trying to do the best I can to both assist in providing a safe working environment while meeting OSHA requirements.) Now, in an academic lab where students are not exposed to any single substance more than a few times, and surely not for many years, how am I to interpret the PEL (or STEL or C or....) in such a situation? Specifically, what guidelines and evidence do we have, other than IDHL values, that gives me a clue about the "safe" level of exposure for "an afternoon hovered over cadaver?" The IDLH is useful if one wants to prevent serious injury or death (which seems a minimalist approach!) but how useful to indicate a "safe" level? I do not assume that breathing modest amount of formaldehyde (= enough to smell, but, let's say, not enough to cause acute symptoms such as lightheadedness or nausea) will represent a cancer risk. Right? The situation for a practicing pathologist is different than the situation of the student. I do not know how to give good, practical advice about short-term exposures based on the (chronic toxicity) information in an MSDS. It is good to be prudent, of course, and I tell folks to minimize all exposures. The cadaver example is a good one, though, since some situations may not readily permit the equivlalent of "down draft" hoods. If this is "impossible" from an engineering/economic perspective, how do we best counsel those short-term visitors who will surely be smelling some formaldehyde? Thoughts on this, and how to use MSDS data, will be appreciated. Dave -- David C. Finster Professor and Chair of Chemistry University Chemical Hygiene Officer 937-327-6441 dfinster@wittenberg.edu http://userpages.wittenberg.edu/dfinster/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 23:10:16 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: Cadavers, formalin, and PELs In-Reply-To: <3602D6A8.C5C71B74@wittenberg.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:54 PM 9/18/98 -0400, you wrote: >Safety netters, > >The comments about cadavers, formalin vapors in a teaching environment >prompt the following query. > >First, I take it that a PEL value is generated primarily from models of >toxicity coupled with data on animals and/or humans. The final value is an >estimate (perhaps with significant uncertainty associated with it) of the >upper limit for "safe" level of inhalation of a substance assuming that one >is inhaling this substance repeatedly over a long period of time. (I >assume that the models clearly specify "repeatedly" and "long-term" in >quantitative fashion, thus leading to a PEL with 2 sig figs.) This >calculation makes sense to me for OSHA's purposes of protecting workers who >may be in environments where chronic exposures are the danger. (Those >trained in IH and EHS can do doubt state this situation better than I. I >am an academic chemist with no formal training in IH who was appointed as >CHO, like many folks, and now find myself trying to do the best I can to >both assist in providing a safe working environment while meeting OSHA >requirements.) Now, in an academic lab where students are not exposed to >any single substance more than a few times, and surely not for many years, >how am I to interpret the PEL (or STEL or C or....) in such a situation? >Specifically, what guidelines and evidence do we have, other than IDHL >values, that gives me a clue about the "safe" level of exposure for "an >afternoon hovered over cadaver?" The IDLH is useful if one wants to >prevent serious injury or death (which seems a minimalist approach!) but >how useful to indicate a "safe" level? I do not assume that breathing >modest amount of formaldehyde (= enough to smell, but, let's say, not >enough to cause acute symptoms such as lightheadedness or nausea) will >represent a cancer risk. Right? The situation for a practicing >pathologist is different than the situation of the student. I do not know >how to give good, practical advice about short-term exposures based on the >(chronic toxicity) information in an MSDS. > >It is good to be prudent, of course, and I tell folks to minimize all >exposures. The cadaver example is a good one, though, since some >situations may not readily permit the equivlalent of "down draft" hoods. >If this is "impossible" from an engineering/economic perspective, how do we >best counsel those short-term visitors who will surely be smelling some >formaldehyde? Thoughts on this, and how to use MSDS data, will be >appreciated. > >Dave > >-- >David C. Finster >Professor and Chair of Chemistry >University Chemical Hygiene Officer >937-327-6441 >dfinster@wittenberg.edu >http://userpages.wittenberg.edu/dfinster/ > They derived originally from TLV's which are based mainly on workplace experience, and depending on the chemical, may be aimed at short term annoyance and irritation, to long term cancer risk, and are recommendations to be interpreted by an IH. The PELs are regulatory, without any interpretation, or it depends, built in. Now days OSHA is required to develop their own data, independent of ACGIH's TLVs. Because of the possibility of developing MCS (multiple chemical sensitivity), which seems to be triggered by one time acute overexposure or a series of medium high exposures, it behooves us to limit all such triggers to the lowest feasible level by engineering controls (ventilation) or substitution. Once MCS develops, very low, low level exposure to a range of substances produces sometimes incapacitating symptoms. In industry, those with such a predisposition are, I imagine self selected out of the exposure by quiting. Get the Univ. a copy of the TLV Documentation, available from ACGIH, which explains more on how TLV's were derived. (not necessarily about MCS, though). Mary Ann Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority DivCHAS Chair, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:38:09 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Christophe YOUNGHANS-HAUG Subject: Re: Formalin and Cadavers Hi LABSAFETY, I am the EHS Programs Coordinator at UC Irvine's College of Medicine. I saw this thread on cadavers. I wanted to add some thoughts/facts to the list which we've been working with lately. The ACGIH TLV-STEL (15 min) for formaldehyde is 0.3 ppm and TLV-Ceiling is 0.37 mg/m3 (1997 data). In California, Cal-OSHA requires a monitoring program when airborne concentrations exceed 0.5 TWA 8 hr and limits airborne exposure (PEL-TWA 8hr) to 0.75 ppm. The Cal-OSHA STEL (15 min) is 2.0 ppm airborne exposure, over six times higher than the 1997 ACGIH recommendation. (Who said California always goes overboard with its regulations?) Thus, even in the academic setting where students might only briefly--15 minutes to a few hours or so--have exposure to a regulated carcinogen like formaldehyde, practices must be established to ensure that the short term regulatory values are not exceeded. Air sampling measurements we've obtained in our gross anatomy labs here indicate airborne STELs (15 min) ranging from "Not detected" to 0.5 ppm. The fixed specimens are generally cadaver parts stationed throughout the classroom. No students or employees, to our knowledge, spend 8 hours at a stretch viewing these samples. I agree with David Finster's point about avoiding all hazardous chemical exposures as a matter of chemical hygiene (ala National Research Council's Prudent Practices for Handling Hazardous Chemicals in Laboratories) rather than focussing on what levels we are legally allowed to accept. The theory of cancer etiology, as I understand it, still includes the possibility that within the spectrum of individual genetic make-ups and health situations, a one time carcinogen exposure can be a triggering event. The ACGIH and regulator perspectives, however, articulate a position that acceptable cancer risks are achieved by maintaining chemical exposure below the TLVs, PELs, and STELs. Luckily, down draft tables are more common in university classroom settings than ten years ago. Also, the HVAC department can increase the air exchanges in the anatomy classrooms to help. **************************** Chris Younghans-Haug EH&S Programs Coordinator for the College of Medicine University of California Irvine 92697-3950 (949) 824-4660 (949) 824-1221 fax chrisyh@uci.edu **************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 09:17:24 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Christophe YOUNGHANS-HAUG Subject: Re: formalin and cadavers. I just reviewed the message I sent and noticed a significant oversimplification I made regarding our formaldehyde measurements. I felt that I should elaborate for the list. Our field measurements had discrepancies. Screening measurements using a MSA formaldameter with phenol filter in the anatomy viewing labs ranged from "ND" to 1.7 ppm. However, laboratory analyses of area and personal breathing zone measurements using XAD-2 adsorbent tubes and SKC pocket low flow pump (NIOSH Method 2541) ranged from <0.001 to 0.008 ppm. **************************** Chris Younghans-Haug EH&S Programs Coordinator for the College of Medicine University of California Irvine 92697-3950 (949) 824-4660 (949) 824-1221 fax chrisyh@uci.edu **************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:38:03 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Norman, Randy" Subject: Re: Cadavers, formalin, and PELs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" A few notes: The OSHA PELS are much higher and in my opinion and as is typical, dated. Being interested in protecting health, we look elsewhere for guidance. There is no 8-hr TWA TLV (ACGIH) for formaldehyde, as is sometimes the case for A2 carcinogens. A ceiling limit is listed however. The recommendation for A2 carcinogens is that "worker exposure by all routes should be carefully controlled to levels as low as possible below the TLV"* (which is a ceiling level in the case of formaldehyde). Note the word "possible". This encourages the use of the most effective means of controlling exposures that can be provided. Reason also plays a part in making professional recommendations, but the wording is strong and intentional. The 0.3 ppm (0.37 mg/m3) TLV is a CEILING. Technically impossible to gauge, since every analytical system has SOME type of response time, but the recommendation is that airborne exposures do not (not for an instant) exceed 0.3 ppm. It is not a 15-minute STEL. The sampling system used must be selected by a qualified Industrial Hygienist based upon a variety of factors. Generally speaking one would prefer a "real-time" monitor with a very short response/averaging time. As for the comment regarding odors as an indicator of excessive exposures, please note all of the usual trouble with using odor as an indicator: variation in individual sensitivity, accommodation, etc. Also please note that Critiqued sources of odor thresholds for formaldehyde in AIHA's "Odor Thresholds for Chemicals with Established Occupational Health Standards" (American Industrial Hygiene Association, 1989) indicate that the odor threshold may be reasonably anticipated in at least some cases to exceed the 0.3 ppm Ceiling limit. The wide variation in odor thresholds reported among the critiqued sources tells us that odor is simply not a reliable indicator of exposure levels in the case of formaldehyde. (If someone has a later edition of this reference that gives a Geometric Mean please post it, but my 1989 version does not.) As for the student versus worker question: Others may add to this, but depending upon the theory of carcinogenesis which best describes that which may occur with formaldehyde, the dose one receives as a student adds to environmental exposures (which are many) and perhaps to later occupational exposures, the sum total of which may later lead to cancer. For what percentage of that person's legal compensation for that later cancer (should they be inclined to seek any) do we want to be potentially liable? Carcinogenicity aside, the point made vis MCS can also be applied to the triggering of good old-fashioned, dermal or respiratory hypersensitivity (well-known hazards of formaldehyde) which could be career-threatening to the student. So what happens to the student during their short sojourn in the Anatomy lab could indeed have lifelong and possibly very serious implications. *1997 TLVs and BEIs, American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists, Cincinnati, OH, 1997, Appendix A. Randy Norman Safety Specialist Sr. MA BioServices, Inc. Rockville, MD 20850 rnorman@mabioservices.com "Success is a journey, not a destination" - Ben Sweetland ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 11:34:33 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Cadavers, formalin, and PELs -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I have found the discussion on Formaldehyde and cadavers very interesting as I am currently embroiled in problems with our Gross Anatomy Lab. I wish we only had a couple bodies to deal with. We have 32 bodies in our lab right now for a med school class of 117 students. Some thoughts and comments on what I have been reading. While students are exposed for a relatively brief time, we can not forget the faculty and staff who are being exposed for many hours a day, many days a week. Our Diener has been working here for nearly 15 years. These are significant exposures even at or below OSHA PEL's. While cancer is nasty, living with asthma is no day at the beach. Limiting exposures to the lowest possible degree is the only prudent practice you can have when dealing with a chemical such as formaldehyde that sensitizes a person's system. Undetectable levels can trigger life threatening reactions in sensitized individuals. That said, we need to do a better job of education our students about the chemicals they are exposed to and the risks associated with that exposure. If I had been told about formalin as an undergrad, I would have been a lot more careful in handling those preserved cats and sharks. Maybe I would not have asthma today. It is hard to draw these conclusions given the environmental exposures we are all bombarded with on a daily basis, but the evidence is pretty compelling. I conducted training on Friday for Fellows who are teaching assistance in the gross lab. One student asked me how long we knew formalin had these health effects. How long has it been a listed carcinogen? How long have we known that latex gloves are not a suitable barrier for formalin protection? These are third year med students who have had this course. They should have been informed three years ago. Note, this predates my CHO appointment with the med school. I was embarrassed for the university and the anatomy department for not having educated these students properly. Students have just started to report numbness in their finger tips after dissecting. They thought it was something they had to "put up with". They were unaware that it was a possible symptom of overexposure to phenol. We have been so wrapped up in protecting for formalin that the gloves they are using were not adequately reviewed for phenol protection. I might add that while phenol is not a carcinogen with it's own OSHA chapter, it is a pretty nasty character by it's own right. Bottom line, OSHA is the law, but when one reviews just some of the data available on Formaldehyde and Phenol today, the message is clear. We must limit exposures to known nasties as much as is possible. I would say that if students or employees are experiencing symptoms of exposures the levels are not low enough yet, even if they are within the OSHA regs. For what its worth, Janeen. ****** Janeen Lapierre, CHO-COM University of New England 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU Opinions expressed are mine and do not represent those of the university. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:26:39 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ben Owens Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 17 Sep 1998 to 18 Sep 1998 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:42:59 -0500 From: "H. Darrell Iler" Subject: cadaver room and formalin I have a question concerning the provision of adequate protection for students working on cadavers. We have two cadavers both preserved in formalin. Some students have commented (I won't say they have complained but have come close) about the odor and some eye irritation when working with these bodies. I know that formaldehyde is classified as a probable human carcinogen. We try to provide good ventilation but of course cannot remove the odor completely. Besides wearing goggles, gloves what protection do other institutions supply? We do not have a hood that is large enough to hold a cadver. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks Darrell Iler Dept of Chemistry Eastern Mennonite University ------------------------------ Darrell, We have recently began using a product called "Infutrace" in our gross anatomy lab that is used in a secondary embalming process to replace the formaldehyde based embalming fluid. Cadavers are embalmed in the traditional manner and then re-embalmed using the Infutrace. This secondary embalming gets rid of the formaldehyde and supposedly the Infutrace will "inactivate" residual formaldehyde. I believe that the secondary embalming cost was approximately $100 per cadaver. Preliminary air monitoring (integrated personal samples and direct reading instrument) performed during dissection of such treated cadavers showed low formaldehyde concentrations and low (if any) odor. Individual organ specimens that will be kept for inspection by students will still be kept in the traditional formaldehyde based preservative but such organs will be transferred to Infutrace the night before the student inspection. This is expected to greatly reduce the high localized exposure that would otherwise result. After inspection, the organs would go back into formaldehyde. We have no monitoring data on this yet. Information on Infutrace can be obtained by contacting American Bio-Safety, Inc. (Rocklin, CA) at 800-624-8021. Although I have not performed air monitoring on cadavers treated only with the traditional embalming fluid, I can say that dissection on cadavers treated with this product results in low airborne formaldehyde concentrations. I have no financial (or otherwise) interest in this product or company. Obviously, good general room ventilation and local ventilation (down draft tables, task exhaust) are also important. -- Ben Owens, CIH Chemical Hygiene Officer University of Nevada, Reno Environmental Health and Safety Department, MS 328 Reno, NV 89557 (702) 327-5196 (702) 784-4553 fax ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:58:15 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Reeder, Deborah" Subject: Splash goggles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Does anyone have a suggestion for a true "fog free" goggle? I wear glasses under my goggles and if it is the least bit humid in our labs the goggles (and my glasses!) fog up in no time. I am presently using the Econ Model 500's. Thanks! > Deborah M. Reeder > Chemistry Laboratory Manager > > Anne Arundel Community College > 101 College Parkway > Arnold, Maryland 21012 > > voice: 410-541-2224 > fax: 410-541-2525 > e-mail: dmreeder@mail.aacc.cc.md.us ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 10:48:00 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Helen B. Gerhard" Subject: Re: Cadavers, formalin, and PELs -Reply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" One of the areas to look at: The students themselves (unless they work for the University) are not covered under OSHA at all. Does this mean that we do not need to protect them? From a regulatory standpoint, yes...you will not be criminally negligent. From a civil side, however, if a student or students ever decide to sue, then you have another can of worms. Thus, documenting that you took the threat of a problem seriously and documenting how you are dealing with the situation prudently may be the your only defense. As Janeen said, however, "the faculty and staff who are being exposed for many hours a day, many days a week" are covered under OSHA and ignoring a PEL for them would be foolish. I guess the main issue is, why are we in Health & Safety...to keep the company, university, or other entity out of regulatory hot water or to have people understand that any activity has H&S risks associated with them. Getting out of bed in the morning has its risks as does staying in bed forever. It is not the H&S risk itself that is at issue, it is having the knowledge to make an informed decision of how to proceed (e.g. what is the likelihood, what are the consequences, and how do we choose to respond). That is really what the training and behavior based safety is all about. Thanks! Helen -----Original Message----- From: Janeen LaPierre [SMTP:JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU] Sent: Monday, September 21, 1998 10:35 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Cadavers, formalin, and PELs -Reply I have found the discussion on Formaldehyde and cadavers very interesting as I am currently embroiled in problems with our Gross Anatomy Lab. I wish we only had a couple bodies to deal with. We have 32 bodies in our lab right now for a med school class of 117 students. Some thoughts and comments on what I have been reading. While students are exposed for a relatively brief time, we can not forget the faculty and staff who are being exposed for many hours a day, many days a week. Our Diener has been working here for nearly 15 years. These are significant exposures even at or below OSHA PEL's. While cancer is nasty, living with asthma is no day at the beach. Limiting exposures to the lowest possible degree is the only prudent practice you can have when dealing with a chemical such as formaldehyde that sensitizes a person's system. Undetectable levels can trigger life threatening reactions in sensitized individuals. That said, we need to do a better job of education our students about the chemicals they are exposed to and the risks associated with that exposure. If I had been told about formalin as an undergrad, I would have been a lot more careful in handling those preserved cats and sharks. Maybe I would not have asthma today. It is hard to draw these conclusions given the environmental exposures we are all bombarded with on a daily basis, but the evidence is pretty compelling. I conducted training on Friday for Fellows who are teaching assistance in the gross lab. One student asked me how long we knew formalin had these health effects. How long has it been a listed carcinogen? How long have we known that latex gloves are not a suitable barrier for formalin protection? These are third year med students who have had this course. They should have been informed three years ago. Note, this predates my CHO appointment with the med school. I was embarrassed for the university and the anatomy department for not having educated these students properly. Students have just started to report numbness in their finger tips after dissecting. They thought it was something they had to "put up with". They were unaware that it was a possible symptom of overexposure to phenol. We have been so wrapped up in protecting for formalin that the gloves they are using were not adequately reviewed for phenol protection. I might add that while phenol is not a carcinogen with it's own OSHA chapter, it is a pretty nasty character by it's own right. Bottom line, OSHA is the law, but when one reviews just some of the data available on Formaldehyde and Phenol today, the message is clear. We must limit exposures to known nasties as much as is possible. I would say that if students or employees are experiencing symptoms of exposures the levels are not low enough yet, even if they are within the OSHA regs. For what its worth, Janeen. ****** Janeen Lapierre, CHO-COM University of New England 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU Opinions expressed are mine and do not represent those of the university. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:53:54 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Re: Splash goggles In-Reply-To: <5F88844307A0D01191B4006097089A159B631C@mail.aacc.cc.md.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We use Uvex Futura (9301) goggles, with their "4C+" coating (static-, fog, scratch, UV-resistant): no complaints yet, although I haven't done any surveys. JNR > Does anyone have a suggestion for a true "fog free" goggle? I >wear glasses under my goggles and if it is the least bit humid in our >labs the goggles (and my glasses!) fog up in no time. I am presently >using the Econ Model 500's. Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS College of Natural Sciences G2500 W.C. Hogg Building University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712-1199 (512) 471-6176 (O) (512) 471-4998 (F) jrubin@mail.utexas.edu "The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise specified." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:14:12 -0600 Reply-To: terrie@cc.usu.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Terrie Wierenga Organization: USDA-ARS PPRL Subject: Re: Splash goggles MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit You wrote: > Does anyone have a suggestion for a true "fog free" goggle? I >wear glasses under my goggles and if it is the least bit humid in our >labs the goggles (and my glasses!) fog up in no time. I am presently >using the Econ Model 500's. In addition to selecting a "fog free" goggle, our histology technicians also use the anti-fog solutions available for swimmers' goggles. We haven't yet found true fog-free goggles. This combination works for us; however, we are in the northern Utah mountains so our humidity rarely gets above 40%. Hope this helps. Terrie **** Terrie Wierenga, CDSO, LRPO USDA-ARS Poisonous Plant Research Lab, Logan, Utah v: (435) 752-2941 f: (435) 753-5681 e: terrie@cc.usu.edu All opinions are my own and not those of USDA, etc. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:34:06 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mark Yanchisin Subject: Calcium Gluconate vendor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Does anyone have the names and numbers of any vendors for purchasing Calcium Gluconate to be used as an antidote for HF exposure? We have a number of labs that use HF on campus and most have just taken the calcium gluconate powder and mixed it with KY jelly or something similar. I am concerned with potency, dose, solubility of the powder in the media, storage recommendations, etc. for these self-made remedies. My hope is that a vendor can provide info on these issues, plus whether or not the mixture needs to be FDA approved etc. I am calling the local Poison Control Center, but don't have a complete answer yet. Any help is appreciated!! Thanks!! Mark Yanchisin Coordinator for Clinic and Laboratory Safety Programs Environmental Health and Safety University of Florida PO Box 112190, Building 1079 Gainesville, FL 32611-2190 352-392-1591 Mark@ehs.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:06:36 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Alan Warren(RD)" Subject: Re: Calcium Gluconate vendor A good source for the tubes of calcium gluconate ointment for topical application is Pharmascience Laboratories, 175 Rano Street, Buffalo NY 14207 (1-800-207-4477). Anyone using hydrofluoric acid should also read Eileen Segal's article in the September/October 1998 issue of "Chemical Health & Safety", published by ACS (pages 25-28). >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Yanchisin [SMTP:mark@EHS.UFL.EDU] >Sent: Monday, September 21, 1998 3:34 PM >To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >Subject: Calcium Gluconate vendor > >Does anyone have the names and numbers of any vendors for purchasing Calcium >Gluconate to be used as an antidote for HF exposure? > >We have a number of labs that use HF on campus and most have just taken the >calcium gluconate powder and mixed it with KY jelly or something similar. I >am concerned with potency, dose, solubility of the powder in the media, >storage recommendations, etc. for these self-made remedies. > >My hope is that a vendor can provide info on these issues, plus whether or >not the mixture needs to be FDA approved etc. I am calling the local Poison >Control Center, but don't have a complete answer yet. > >Any help is appreciated!! Thanks!! > >Mark Yanchisin >Coordinator for Clinic and Laboratory Safety Programs >Environmental Health and Safety >University of Florida >PO Box 112190, Building 1079 >Gainesville, FL 32611-2190 >352-392-1591 >Mark@ehs.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:25:57 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: John Elliott Subject: Re: Calcium Gluconate vendor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try the following: Pharmascience Laboratories, Inc. 175 Rano St. Buffalo, NY 14207 800-207-4477 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:24:50 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ray Campbell Subject: Re: Calcium Gluconate vendor In-Reply-To: <435ACBA4E161D1118AC7006008A057A02B36A6@ehs-nts1.ehs.ufl.ed u> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" I see that others have provided vendors. That is good. You will need them. As a victim of this acid, I can tell you that people should use EXTREME caution. This is the most painful, disabling, scarring, long term injury that I have ever seen. I am a Viet Nam veteran (need I say more?). I also suggest that you arrange to have your medical department keep a Calcium Gluconate solution ready for injection, if necessary. Most of the time it will be. It saved my fingers from complete tissue necrosis and possible amputation. Ray Campbell REA CHO 310-257-1080 At 03:34 PM 9/21/98 -0400, you wrote: >Does anyone have the names and numbers of any vendors for purchasing Calcium >Gluconate to be used as an antidote for HF exposure? > >We have a number of labs that use HF on campus and most have just taken the >calcium gluconate powder and mixed it with KY jelly or something similar. I >am concerned with potency, dose, solubility of the powder in the media, >storage recommendations, etc. for these self-made remedies. > >My hope is that a vendor can provide info on these issues, plus whether or >not the mixture needs to be FDA approved etc. I am calling the local Poison >Control Center, but don't have a complete answer yet. > >Any help is appreciated!! Thanks!! > >Mark Yanchisin >Coordinator for Clinic and Laboratory Safety Programs >Environmental Health and Safety >University of Florida >PO Box 112190, Building 1079 >Gainesville, FL 32611-2190 >352-392-1591 >Mark@ehs.ufl.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:06:36 +1200 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: John Downey Subject: FW: Calcium Gluconate vendor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain If anyone is interested, I have a coroner's report on a nasty fatality involving HF from Perth, West Australia a few years ago. It is too much to post here, as it is quite a few pages, but ALL emergency services, especially in areas where HF is used, such as geology labs, need to read this and take good note. If anyone would like a copy, contact me direct and I will send a copy by snailmail. I don't think it is available on the web, though haven't done a search on HF. Regards John Downey > -----Original Message----- > From: Ray Campbell [SMTP:ray.campbell@SPP.VARIAN.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 9:25 AM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: Calcium Gluconate vendor > > I see that others have provided vendors. That is good. You will need them. > As a victim of this acid, I can tell you that people should use EXTREME > caution. This is the most painful, disabling, scarring, long term injury > that I have ever seen. I am a Viet Nam veteran (need I say more?). I also > suggest that you arrange to have your medical department keep a Calcium > Gluconate solution ready for injection, if necessary. Most of the time it > will be. It saved my fingers from complete tissue necrosis and possible > amputation. > > Ray Campbell REA CHO > 310-257-1080 > > At 03:34 PM 9/21/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Does anyone have the names and numbers of any vendors for purchasing > Calcium > >Gluconate to be used as an antidote for HF exposure? > > > >We have a number of labs that use HF on campus and most have just taken > the > >calcium gluconate powder and mixed it with KY jelly or something similar. > I > >am concerned with potency, dose, solubility of the powder in the media, > >storage recommendations, etc. for these self-made remedies. > > > >My hope is that a vendor can provide info on these issues, plus whether > or > >not the mixture needs to be FDA approved etc. I am calling the local > Poison > >Control Center, but don't have a complete answer yet. > > > >Any help is appreciated!! Thanks!! > > > >Mark Yanchisin > >Coordinator for Clinic and Laboratory Safety Programs > >Environmental Health and Safety > >University of Florida > >PO Box 112190, Building 1079 > >Gainesville, FL 32611-2190 > >352-392-1591 > >Mark@ehs.ufl.edu > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:40:06 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Re: Calcium Gluconate In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980921142450.006ae044@solan.spp.varian.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" The lucky Mr. Yanchisin has won the last of the hadnouts from Dr. Trevino's lecture here last May. There are some new vendors coming out. Supposedly someone is or is about to be selling it out of Houston - nothing like competition to drive prices down. I agree with Ray Campbell's suggestion - anyone working with HF should have a Ca source AT HAND, but be very careful with how it's used. Anyone can slap on some topcial ointment/gel, but not anyone can inject it; if irrigation and topical Ca gulconate are applied promptly and correctly, subcutaneous infiltration may be unnecessary. Even though Ca gluconate is less destructive to tissues than CaCl2, it's still destructive, so IV/IA/SQ use should be done with care. FYI: unlike many chemical burns, 15 min irrigation with HF burns may d o more harm than good. The stuff is very H20-soluble; if Ca gluconate is at hand and ready to use, irrigate 5 min then apply the gel. Any more irrigation is pointless (the HF will be gone from the surface) and may be harmful if it delays Ca application. Work this out with industrial emergency response teams, local EMS, and local ERs. Although 1% Ca gluconate solution can be applied prehospital, it tends to be most effective whwn done through Morgan lenses, which in turn are most effective when preceded by a little topical anesthetic (e.g., proparacaine HCl). Another FYI: the best way to determine whether the Ca application is effective is to monitor pain relief. This means that analgesia or anesthesia should be avoided - they'll mask the effect and may be dangerously misleading. Ouch. I see that others have provided vendors. That is good. You will need them. As a victim of this acid, I can tell you that people should use EXTREME caution. This is the most painful, disabling, scarring, long term injury that I have ever seen. I am a Viet Nam veteran (need I say more?). I also suggest that you arrange to have your medical department keep a Calcium Gluconate solution ready for injection, if necessary. Most of the time it will be. It saved my fingers from complete tissue necrosis and possible amputation. Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS College of Natural Sciences G2500 W.C. Hogg Building University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712-1199 (512) 471-6176 (O) (512) 471-4998 (F) jrubin@mail.utexas.edu "The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise specified." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:41:56 PDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: damien luviano Subject: poisons, toxins Content-Type: text/plain Hello, I am a student at The University of Texas at Austin, and I am hoping to get some ideas from you on poisons and toxins. I want to do a research presentation on toxins/poisons which have some history behind them. I have chosen ricin and botulin toxin, but I am hoping you can suggest some other interesting compunds. I plan to discuss the mechanism of action , preventive measures, and treatment if any. I thank you in advance for your time and words of wisdom. damien Luviano@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 01:51:43 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: poisons, toxins In-Reply-To: <19980922024157.25649.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:41 PM 9/21/98 PDT, you wrote: >Hello, I am a student at The University of Texas at Austin, and I am >hoping to get some ideas from you on poisons and toxins. I want to do a >research presentation on toxins/poisons which have some history behind >them. I have chosen ricin and botulin toxin, but I am hoping you can >suggest some other interesting compunds. I plan to discuss the >mechanism of action , preventive measures, and treatment if any. I >thank you in advance for your time and words of wisdom. > >damien >Luviano@hotmail.com > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > Here's one of my favorites. Tri-ortho-cresyl phosphate. Within the last century it has been responsible for several mass poisonings--inadvertent. In the early 30's it was the subject of a public health service monograph. But there were instances after that, connected with WW II and later. Quite a good read with some surprising twists. For instance, the usual test rodents did not respond to it. Doubt if it is on the internet. Don't recall if Patty's has the story. Mary Ann Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude 16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness 781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application Authority DivCHAS Chair, ACS msolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:49:33 -0300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Aziz M. Abu-khalaf" Subject: Abbreviations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Many abbreviations appear on the list during various discussions. I suggest giving the original name except for the well known. Tbanks. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:00:16 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: poisons, toxins Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit << I have chosen ricin and botulin toxin, but I am hoping you can suggest some other interesting compunds.>> My favorite is the one that has saved more lives in the world than any other compound. DDT ..... jim ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:33:33 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "M. Drago" Subject: Abbreviations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you Mr. Abu-khalaf! I am fairly new to the field of lab safety and many of these acronyms are lost on me. Believe me, it makes a difference between guessing through context and understanding. Kinda like reading that either the FBI or the PTA was looking for you!!! Thanks for all I've learned. Marcia Kilday Drago Science Lab Manager Central Florida Community College Ocala, FL ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:33:55 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Naomi Kelly Subject: Re: poisons, toxins In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Do you have data that backs this? At 07:00 AM 9/22/98 EDT, you wrote: ><< I have chosen ricin and botulin toxin, but I am hoping you can > suggest some other interesting compunds.>> > >My favorite is the one that has saved more lives in the world than any >other compound. DDT ..... jim > > ***************************************************** > James A. Kaufman, President > The Laboratory Safety Workshop > 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 > 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com > Safety in Science Education > >The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational >organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and >important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory >Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar >schedule, and membership information are available on request. > > The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. > Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG > ********************************************************************** > > Naomi Kelly Environmental Health and Safety nkelly@clemson.edu (864) 656 - 7554 Fax: (864) 656 - 7630 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:51:41 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Wesley Kolar Subject: Re: HF Treatment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For those who are interested, there are two excellent review articles on the treatment of HF injuries. The references are as follows: "Treatment of Hydrogen Fluoride Injuries"; Finkel, Asher J., Adv. Fluorine Chem., 7 (1973), 199-203. "Symptoms and Treatment of Hydrogen Fluoride Injuries"; Peters, D; Miethchen, R.; Journal of Fluorine Chemistry; 79 (1996); 161-165. Both articles are excellent, and full of additional references. Wes Kolar ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:59:22 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Harry Elston Subject: Re: poisons, toxins Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:33 AM 9/22/98 -0400, you wrote: >Do you have data that backs this? Look at the reduction in Malaria deaths in India during its use between 1950-ish to 1980-ish. Jim is absolutely right. >At 07:00 AM 9/22/98 EDT, you wrote: >><< I have chosen ricin and botulin toxin, but I am hoping you can >> suggest some other interesting compunds.>> >> >>My favorite is the one that has saved more lives in the world than any >>other compound. DDT ..... jim Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO Chemical Hygiene Officer Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety Opinions are mine, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah "God made all those stars out of nothin'. He just 'pfffft' and there they were." -Larry the Cucumber, Veggie Tales ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:00:24 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Wesley Kolar Subject: Re: poisons, toxins In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980922015143.009e4100@pop.ne.mediaone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" During the middle ages, physicians would prescribe drinking elemental mercury for there patients for various ailments. Arsenic was also given during the middle ages for certain illnesses. Napoleon was given this treatment while imprisoned in England. At 01:51 AM 9/22/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 07:41 PM 9/21/98 PDT, you wrote: >>Hello, I am a student at The University of Texas at Austin, and I am >>hoping to get some ideas from you on poisons and toxins. I want to do a >>research presentation on toxins/poisons which have some history behind >>them. I have chosen ricin and botulin toxin, but I am hoping you can >>suggest some other interesting compunds. I plan to discuss the >>mechanism of action , preventive measures, and treatment if any. I >>thank you in advance for your time and words of wisdom. >> >>damien >>Luviano@hotmail.com >> >>______________________________________________________ >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> >Here's one of my favorites. Tri-ortho-cresyl phosphate. Within the last >century it has been responsible for several mass poisonings--inadvertent. >In the early 30's it was the subject of a public health service monograph. > But there were instances after that, connected with WW II and later. >Quite a good read with some surprising twists. For instance, the usual >test rodents did not respond to it. Doubt if it is on the internet. Don't >recall if Patty's has the story. > >Mary Ann > > >Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety >SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude >16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness >781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application > Authority >DivCHAS Chair, ACS >msolstad@mediaone.net > Wes Kolar ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:28:59 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Donald E. Clark" Subject: Re: poisons, toxins In-Reply-To: <19980922024157.25649.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Might take a look at dinitrophenol. If I recall correctly it was used at one time to control obesity. Apparently blocks oxidative phosphorylation ie synthesis of ATP. Since energy cant be "trapped" in phosphate bonds, it is elevates body temperature. Also causes cateracts. Other interesting tox/history... arsenic used to do away with royalty, Inorganic Hg..Minamata Desease in Japan; Phosgene et al as war gases; Cyanide use by Hitler's group in WW II. Interesting info on biochemistry of management of CN poisoning in Casserett & Doull (4th Edit) p. 277. Hope this helps. Gig 'em. dec At 07:41 PM 9/21/98 PDT, you wrote: >Hello, I am a student at The University of Texas at Austin, and I am >hoping to get some ideas from you on poisons and toxins. I want to do a >research presentation on toxins/poisons which have some history behind >them. I have chosen ricin and botulin toxin, but I am hoping you can >suggest some other interesting compunds. I plan to discuss the >mechanism of action , preventive measures, and treatment if any. I >thank you in advance for your time and words of wisdom. > >damien >Luviano@hotmail.com > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > Donald E. Clark, PhD Chemical and Biological Safety Officer Environmental Health and Safety Department Texas A&M University College Station, TX 77843-4472 Phone (409)845-2132 FAX (409)845-1348 E-mail declark-sh@tamu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:40:37 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Gonzalez, Lisa" Subject: Re: HF Treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" There is also a good article on the acute effects of 10 minute exposures to hydrogen fluoride. "Acute Effects of 10-Minute Exposure to HF in Rats and Derivation of a STEL for Humans," W. Dalbey, Regulatory Toxicology & Pharmacology, 27, 207-216 (1998). -----Original Message----- From: Wesley Kolar [SMTP:wkolar@PS.UGA.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 8:52 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: HF Treatment For those who are interested, there are two excellent review articles on the treatment of HF injuries. The references are as follows: "Treatment of Hydrogen Fluoride Injuries"; Finkel, Asher J., Adv. Fluorine Chem., 7 (1973), 199-203. "Symptoms and Treatment of Hydrogen Fluoride Injuries"; Peters, D; Miethchen, R.; Journal of Fluorine Chemistry; 79 (1996); 161-165. Both articles are excellent, and full of additional references. Wes Kolar ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:23:34 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Re: poisons, toxins In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980922083355.00712868@mail.clemson.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" DDT was at the core of vector control for malaria and other insect-borne diseases that killed hundreds of millions. I'll bet CDC and/or WHO has some estimates. JNR >Do you have data that backs this? Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS College of Natural Sciences G2500 W.C. Hogg Building University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712-1199 (512) 471-6176 (O) (512) 471-4998 (F) jrubin@mail.utexas.edu "The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise specified." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:45:34 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike hinz Subject: Re: poisons, toxins Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Middle ages, heck! Arsenic was used as a treatment for syphillis in this century. Arsenic and cadmium also commonly used as pesticides on food crops within the last 50 years. Mike Hinz Chemistry Dept. Washington State University At 09:00 AM 9/22/98 -0400, you wrote: > During the middle ages, physicians would prescribe drinking >elemental mercury for there patients for various ailments. >Arsenic was also given during the middle ages for certain >illnesses. Napoleon was given this treatment while imprisoned >in England. > >At 01:51 AM 9/22/98 -0400, you wrote: >>At 07:41 PM 9/21/98 PDT, you wrote: >>>Hello, I am a student at The University of Texas at Austin, and I am >>>hoping to get some ideas from you on poisons and toxins. I want to do a >>>research presentation on toxins/poisons which have some history behind >>>them. I have chosen ricin and botulin toxin, but I am hoping you can >>>suggest some other interesting compunds. I plan to discuss the >>>mechanism of action , preventive measures, and treatment if any. I >>>thank you in advance for your time and words of wisdom. >>> >>>damien >>>Luviano@hotmail.com >>> >>>______________________________________________________ >>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >>> >>Here's one of my favorites. Tri-ortho-cresyl phosphate. Within the last >>century it has been responsible for several mass poisonings--inadvertent. >>In the early 30's it was the subject of a public health service monograph. >> But there were instances after that, connected with WW II and later. >>Quite a good read with some surprising twists. For instance, the usual >>test rodents did not respond to it. Doubt if it is on the internet. Don't >>recall if Patty's has the story. >> >>Mary Ann >> >> >>Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety >>SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude >>16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness >>781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application >> Authority >>DivCHAS Chair, ACS >>msolstad@mediaone.net >> >Wes Kolar > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:20:28 -0500 Reply-To: solomon@huarp.harvard.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Lenny Solomon Organization: Harvard University Subject: Re: HF Poisoning In-Reply-To: <98Sep22.100600nzst.32260@breathe.waitakere.govt.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I have an article on-line at our Web site (http://www-safety.deas.harvard.edu) entitled "FATALITY DUE TO ACUTE FLUORIDE POISONING FOLLOWING DERMAL CONTACT WITH HYDROFLUORIC ACID IN A PALYNOLOGY LABORATORY." We were given permission to post this article that first appeared in the 1996 journal of the British Occupational Hygiene Society. Click on "Safety Advisories" and scroll down to the article at the very bottom of the page. Lenny Solomon Date sent: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:06:36 +1200 Send reply to: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: John Downey Subject: FW: Calcium Gluconate vendor To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > If anyone is interested, I have a coroner's report on a nasty fatality > involving HF from Perth, West Australia a few years ago. It is too much to > post here, as it is quite a few pages, but ALL emergency services, > especially in areas where HF is used, such as geology labs, need to read > this and take good note. > > If anyone would like a copy, contact me direct and I will send a copy by > snailmail. I don't think it is available on the web, though haven't done a > search on HF. > > Regards > John Downey > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ray Campbell [SMTP:ray.campbell@SPP.VARIAN.COM] > > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 9:25 AM > > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > > Subject: Re: Calcium Gluconate vendor > > > > I see that others have provided vendors. That is good. You will need them. > > As a victim of this acid, I can tell you that people should use EXTREME > > caution. This is the most painful, disabling, scarring, long term injury > > that I have ever seen. I am a Viet Nam veteran (need I say more?). I also > > suggest that you arrange to have your medical department keep a Calcium > > Gluconate solution ready for injection, if necessary. Most of the time it > > will be. It saved my fingers from complete tissue necrosis and possible > > amputation. > > > > Ray Campbell REA CHO > > 310-257-1080 > > > > At 03:34 PM 9/21/98 -0400, you wrote: > > >Does anyone have the names and numbers of any vendors for purchasing > > Calcium > > >Gluconate to be used as an antidote for HF exposure? > > > > > >We have a number of labs that use HF on campus and most have just taken > > the > > >calcium gluconate powder and mixed it with KY jelly or something similar. > > I > > >am concerned with potency, dose, solubility of the powder in the media, > > >storage recommendations, etc. for these self-made remedies. > > > > > >My hope is that a vendor can provide info on these issues, plus whether > > or > > >not the mixture needs to be FDA approved etc. I am calling the local > > Poison > > >Control Center, but don't have a complete answer yet. > > > > > >Any help is appreciated!! Thanks!! > > > > > >Mark Yanchisin > > >Coordinator for Clinic and Laboratory Safety Programs > > >Environmental Health and Safety > > >University of Florida > > >PO Box 112190, Building 1079 > > >Gainesville, FL 32611-2190 > > >352-392-1591 > > >Mark@ehs.ufl.edu > > > ***************************** Lenny Solomon Harvard University Atmospheric Research Project 12 Oxford Street Cambridge, MA 02138 617-495-4215 (Voice) 617-495-4902 (Fax) solomon@huarp.harvard.edu http://www-arp.harvard.edu/~solomon/index.html ******************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:42:49 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Teresa Robertson Organization: CSU Bakersfield Subject: Re: poisons, toxins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Pyridine was used orally (!) in the recent past for epilepsy. Teresa Robertson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:06:53 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: poisons, toxins Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-22 08:35:15 EDT, you write: << Do you have data that backs this? >> Call NIOSH (1-800-35-NIOSH) and request the "criteria document" on DDT. At one point, when I pulled out all the toxicology, etc books I could find, there were only two recored deaths due to DDT. One involved a woman who took a pound of it, made a slurry, and drank it to commit suicide! ... jim ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:31:47 -0300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Aziz M. Abu-khalaf" Subject: Re: Abbreviations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am also new to this field, although I learned much from this list, but some times I got lost with such messages. So for the sake of "beginners" we ask for some sort of "clarity". Marcia Kilday Drago wrote: >Thank you Mr. Abu-khalaf! >I am fairly new to the field of lab safety and many of these acronyms >are lost on me. Believe me, it makes a difference between guessing >through context and understanding. Kinda like reading that either the >FBI or the PTA was looking for you!!! >Thanks for all I've learned. >Marcia Kilday Drago >Science Lab Manager >Central Florida Community College >Ocala, FL > Aziz M. Abu-Khalaf Chemical Engineering Department King Saud University PO Box 800 Riyadh 11421, Saudi Arabia Tel:(009661)4676894 Fax:(009661)4678770 amkhalaf@ksu.edu.sa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:45:26 -0300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Aziz M. Abu-khalaf" Subject: Chloroform Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Perspex is used in our labs to build equipments for teaching or research purposes, among other uses. Chloroform is used as a "welding agent" to stick perspex parts together. I asked the technicians to use safety respirator. We have respirator no. 1225S (NIOSH TC-23C-76) from Willson. Is this adequate for this kind of chemicals? Thanks. Aziz M. Abu-Khalaf Chemical Engineering Department King Saud University PO Box 800 Riyadh 11421, Saudi Arabia Tel:(009661)4676894 Fax:(009661)4678770 amkhalaf@ksu.edu.sa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:20:52 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Barbie Walter Subject: CHO job description Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain We are in the process of creating a CHO position, and I have been asked to put in my two cents on the job description, so I am asking for help from those of you who have "been there, done that". I would appreciate it if some of you would send me a job description for a CHO appropriate for a small community college. Also, I have noticed from signatures and titles as I read the messages, that many CHO have dual titles, such as Lab Coordinators, Faculty, etc. Can anyone comment on this? It appears to me that much of what a CHO does overlaps with managing, coordinating, or otherwise running laboratories. And finally, the responsibilities of a CHO seem meaningless unless they have the authority to enforce the rules. Do any of you run into this situation? Thank you for your help. barbie Barbie walter, Lab Coordinator Charles County Community College 301-934-7587 office 301-934-7688 fax barbiew@charles.cc.md.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:41:53 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Patricia DePra Subject: Re: poisons, toxins Regarding the number of notes implying that DDT is valuable and safe, please don't overlook the damage to our ecosystems that occur as a result of its use. When massive birdkills occur, it cannot be good for us in the long run. Granted, it has saved lives by preventing malaria. Let's not fall into the trap of then implying that it's a good tool for use in any other circumstance. If I misread 'between the lines', I apologize. I'm not quite sure that I understand the reason for the emphasis on the fact that DDT has seemingly caused few direct human deaths, especially from a listserve that focuses on safety. Am I missing something? A tried-and-true Rachel Carson fan, Patricia DePra Westfield State College ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:20:22 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Alan Warren(RD)" Subject: Re: poisons, toxins My take on DDT is that it performed an extremely important service to mankind. However, it also brought with it the "Thalidomide" effect, i.e. it created problems down the road that were not anticipated. It was found to be bioaccumulative, affected greatly the food chain, caused thinning of bird egg shells, etc., etc. Sometimes we learn the hard way, and realize that side effects and other consequences of use need to be explored before running with a new discovery. >-----Original Message----- >From: Patricia DePra [SMTP:pdepra@FOMA.WSC.MASS.EDU] >Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 1998 11:42 AM >To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >Subject: Re: poisons, toxins > >Regarding the number of notes implying that DDT is valuable and safe, >please don't overlook the damage to our ecosystems that occur as a >result of its use. When massive birdkills occur, it cannot be good >for us in the long run. Granted, it has saved lives by preventing >malaria. Let's not fall into the trap of then implying that it's a >good tool for use in any other circumstance. > >If I misread 'between the lines', I apologize. I'm not quite sure that >I understand the reason for the emphasis on the fact that DDT has >seemingly caused few direct human deaths, especially from a listserve >that focuses on safety. Am I missing something? > >A tried-and-true Rachel Carson fan, >Patricia DePra >Westfield State College ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:51:36 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Re: poisons, toxins In-Reply-To: <98092311415363@foma.wsc.mass.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Maybe I'M missing something, but I don't see anyone being irresponsible or glossing over hazards. I don't think anyone here has made any claims about DDT that couldn't be substantiated, and I didn't see anyone suggesting that we embrace new uses for DDT. That said, hyperbole about specific chemicals, as well as "chemicals" in general, is all too common and is often intentional. There are tradeoffs with everything we use and do, even though most of the public is ignorant of most of this information. It's just as responsible - and important - to point out benefits as it is detriments. It is particularly important for a group that focuses on safety to rationally discuss a full range of issues, even if they touch on politcally sensitive topics. Some of what we do may have political implications, but let's not fall into the trap of reading/writing through political filters. Alar, anyone? JNR >Regarding the number of notes implying that DDT is valuable and safe, >please don't overlook the damage to our ecosystems that occur as a >result of its use. When massive birdkills occur, it cannot be good >for us in the long run. Granted, it has saved lives by preventing >malaria. Let's not fall into the trap of then implying that it's a >good tool for use in any other circumstance. > >If I misread 'between the lines', I apologize. I'm not quite sure that >I understand the reason for the emphasis on the fact that DDT has >seemingly caused few direct human deaths, especially from a listserve >that focuses on safety. Am I missing something? Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS College of Natural Sciences G2500 W.C. Hogg Building University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712-1199 (512) 471-6176 (O) (512) 471-4998 (F) jrubin@mail.utexas.edu "The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise specified." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:16:21 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Gonzalez, Lisa" Subject: Re: CHO job description MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDE71E.A440B260" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDE71E.A440B260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Barbie- I have "been there & done that", and still do it! I am a Certified CCHO through the National Registry in Clinical Chemistry alas NRCC-CHO. I am attaching my current job description which is for a mid-size pharmaceutical company. It does NOT cover the many other job aspects I cover.. such as lab supplies, safety equipment, purchasing, etc. Also, you are very correct in that enforcement is a major part of the puzzle. However, being in industry for over 9 years, I can tell you it is very hard to come by management willing to stand by rules & regs. It may be different at a small college. Good Luck, and don't hesitate if you need further info. Lisa A. Gonzalez, NRCC-CHO Lisa.gonzalez@pharma.com The opinions displayed are not that of the Company but of the writer..... etc. <> -----Original Message----- From: Barbie Walter [SMTP:BarbieW@CHARLES.CC.MD.US] Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 1998 11:21 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: CHO job description We are in the process of creating a CHO position, and I have been asked to put in my two cents on the job description, so I am asking for help from those of you who have "been there, done that". I would appreciate it if some of you would send me a job description for a CHO appropriate for a small community college. Also, I have noticed from signatures and titles as I read the messages, that many CHO have dual titles, such as Lab Coordinators, Faculty, etc. Can anyone comment on this? It appears to me that much of what a CHO does overlaps with managing, coordinating, or otherwise running laboratories. And finally, the responsibilities of a CHO seem meaningless unless they have the authority to enforce the rules. Do any of you run into this situation? Thank you for your help. barbie Barbie walter, Lab Coordinator Charles County Community College 301-934-7587 office 301-934-7688 fax barbiew@charles.cc.md.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:55:57 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Debbie Decker Subject: Faculty Position at Brock Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" FYI: Contact Mary Frances directly since I don't know anything more than what's in the forwarded message. Debbie >X-POP3-Rcpt: dmdecker@pop3 >Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:07:23 -0400 >Old-To: mwcf@aecom.yu.edu >From: Mary Frances Richardson >Subject: Faculty Position at Brock >To: Recipients of Metro Women Chemists Forum >Sender: Metro Women Chemists Forum > >Hi everyone, just to let you know that we have a tenure-track position >targeted at a woman scientist, funded by the Natural Sciences and >Engineering Research Council of Canada, intended to increase the proportion >of women scientists in academic positions. > >The ad is below. It's open only to female Canadian citizens or landed >immigrants (that's like a green card in the U.S.). > >Let your Canadian friends know about this, we're under a tight deadline to >find candidates, choose one, and help her with all the paperwork and >writing the research proposal upon which funding depends. > >======================= > >WOMEN'S FACULTY AWARD >CHEMISTRY > > > The Department of Chemistry at Brock University is seeking to >nominate a candidate for an NSERC University Faculty Award (targeted at >women scientists) in 1998 to fill a tenure track position at the assistant >professor level to commence in July, 1999. The successful candidate will be >expected to establish a viable research programme in the Department. >Applicants must have a Ph.D. with strong background in either modern >experimental physical chemistry or instrumentation-based analytical >chemistry. It would be advantageous if the successful candidate's research >area will contribute to a proposed Ph.D. programme in Biotechnology, >mounted jointly by the Departments of Chemistry and Biology. The successful >candidate will also be expected to be able to teach courses in her field at >various levels, undergraduate and graduate. > > Brock is a mid-sized university with an enrolment approaching >11,000 students. The Department of Chemistry consists of eleven full-time >faculty members plus technical support staff, and offers B.Sc. and M.Sc. >degrees. The department has an arrangement whereby M.Sc. graduates may >apply to McMaster University for Ph.D. studies in chemistry under a Brock >supervisor. Research is supported by NSERC and several other government >agencies. Research equipment includes a Kratos Concept 1S sector mass >spectrometer with a Mach 3 datasystem, Bruker 300 and 200 MHz multinuclear >nmr spectrometers for solutions and solids, HP GC/MSD, new PE Optima 3300DV >ICP/OES system, research AA's and ICP's, DCPs, FT IRs, GC and HPLC >equipment. Research equipment available in the Department of Biological >Sciences and the Cool Climate Oenology and Viticulture Institute (under >construction) includes cold rooms, centrifuges, radiation counters, culture >and fermentation facilities. For more details on the Department, see >http://www.BrockU.CA/chemistry/ as well as the Brock WEB pages, or contact >the Chair, Prof. Jack M. Miller, (905) 688 5550, ext. 3402 or >jmiller@spartan.ac.brocku.ca.. > > Applications for nomination including a curriculum vitae, the >names, telephone and fax numbers of three referees, and a detailed research >plan should be sent as soon as possible. Candidates can expedite matters by >having referees write the department directly. > > Only women who are Canadian citizens, or who have Canadian landed >immigrant status, qualify for this award. > > Smoking at Brock University is strictly controlled. > > Applications will be accepted until November 1st, 1998 or until the >Department has decided upon its nominee. The successful nominee will have >to complete an NSERC application for the Award by mid December to meet >University and NSERC deadlines. > > >Search Committee Co-ordinator >Department of Chemistry >Brock University >St. Catharines, Ontario L2S 3A1 >Canada >======================== > >Regards, > > > >Dr. Mary Frances Richardson >Professor, Department of Chemistry >Associated Faculty Member, Women's Studies >Brock University >St. Catharines, Ontario L2S 3A1 >Canada > >e-mail: mrichard@abacus.ac.BrockU.ca >Phone: 905-688-5550, extension 3400 >http://chemiris.labs.brocku.ca/~chemweb/faculty/richardson/ > >Birkett's hypothesis: Any chemical reaction >that proceeds smoothly under normal conditions, >can proceed violently in the presence of an idiot. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:53:00 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Tayman, Tammy" Subject: Re: CHO job description MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain From someone who works at a small community college: It ain't! (Different, that is.) In fact, it may be worse. A large number of the administrators seem to take the attitude that since we are a "quasi-governmental" institution, we are exempt or at least will never get called out on the stuff! I just hope I'm not around when reality stops by to do an inspection! Tammy Tayman ---------- From: Gonzalez, Lisa To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: CHO job description Date: Wednesday, September 23, 1998 2:16PM However, being in industry for over 9 years, I can tell you it is very hard to come by management willing to stand by rules & regs. It may be different at a small college. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:12:55 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ray Campbell Subject: Re: Chloroform In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19980923083750.211f7790@sun1.ksu.edu.sa> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This type of cartridge is an acid gas type and is not the correct one. In fact, you should use a supplied air respirator rather than a cartridge type. Chloroform is regulated as a carcinogen. Is it possible to use ventilation rather than respirators? Ray Campbell REA CHO 310-257-1080 At 08:45 AM 9/23/98 -0300, you wrote: >Perspex is used in our labs to build equipments for teaching or research >purposes, among other uses. Chloroform is used as a "welding agent" to >stick perspex parts together. I asked the technicians to use safety respirator. >We have respirator no. 1225S (NIOSH TC-23C-76) from Willson. Is this >adequate for this kind of chemicals? > >Thanks. >Aziz M. Abu-Khalaf >Chemical Engineering Department >King Saud University >PO Box 800 >Riyadh 11421, Saudi Arabia >Tel:(009661)4676894 >Fax:(009661)4678770 >amkhalaf@ksu.edu.sa > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:27:30 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ray Campbell Subject: Re: CHO job description In-Reply-To: <57E6A7DC2073D111BD7500A0C999344D510002@2smbx01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The ability to enforce the rules in California stems from the SB 198 law. This law provides for an Injury and Illness Prevention Program. One of the requirements is a system which verifiably provides for a disciplinary program. I have successfully used this law in the Chemical Hygiene Plan to put teeth in the safety program. Ray Campbell REA CHO 310-257-1080 At 02:16 PM 9/23/98 -0400, you wrote: >Barbie- > >I have "been there & done that", and still do it! I am a Certified CCHO >through the National Registry in Clinical Chemistry alas NRCC-CHO. > >I am attaching my current job description which is for a mid-size >pharmaceutical company. It does NOT cover the many other job aspects I >cover.. such as lab supplies, safety equipment, purchasing, etc. Also, >you are very correct in that enforcement is a major part of the puzzle. >However, being in industry for over 9 years, I can tell you it is very >hard to come by management willing to stand by rules & regs. It may be >different at a small college. > >Good Luck, and don't hesitate if you need further info. > >Lisa A. Gonzalez, NRCC-CHO >Lisa.gonzalez@pharma.com > >The opinions displayed are not that of the Company but of the >writer..... etc. > > <> > > -----Original Message----- > From: Barbie Walter [SMTP:BarbieW@CHARLES.CC.MD.US] > Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 1998 11:21 AM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: CHO job description > > We are in the process of creating a CHO position, and I have >been asked to put in my two cents on the job description, so I am asking >for help from those of you who have "been there, done that". I would >appreciate it if some of you would send me a job description for a CHO >appropriate for a small community college. > > Also, I have noticed from signatures and titles as I read the >messages, that many CHO have dual titles, such as Lab Coordinators, >Faculty, etc. Can anyone comment on this? It appears to me that much >of what a CHO does overlaps with managing, coordinating, or otherwise >running laboratories. > > And finally, the responsibilities of a CHO seem meaningless >unless they have the authority to enforce the rules. Do any of you run >into this situation? > > Thank you for your help. barbie > > Barbie walter, Lab Coordinator > Charles County Community College > 301-934-7587 office > 301-934-7688 fax > barbiew@charles.cc.md.us > >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\LAG-JD.doc" > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:07:28 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Patricia DePra Subject: Re: poisons, toxins Please, JNR, don't read more into my statement. I TEACH organic chem, and include discussions of risk vs. benefit. I KNOW the difference between Alar and DDT. I am NOT presenting a political filter by any means. I just witnessed a thread of DDT messages that mentioned benefits but not one risk in the whole lot, and wondered what was going on. I did some work on Rachel Carson to present a talk, and the fact that I was doing that was met with some disdain by an older colleague. He was under the impression that her work had been disproven, and thought that I was wasting my time. (It was a community talk.) I was just concerned, since I don't know the authors personally, that some of the anti-Carson, pro-DDT propaganda was sifting in, and felt the need to present a different opinion. I personally believe that we need to work hard to educate the public, so that another Alar scare does NOT happen. However, we owe a tremendous amount to the work of Rachel Carson with DDT etc. More folks that just chemists should scoff at the label, "chemical free", and pick out ridiculosities in the media. I could start in on how the state of Massachusetts is making that more difficult with their anti-public education policies, but it's most likely prudent to stop here. Patricia DePra Westfield State College Westfield, Massachusetts (the state with no public college faculty contracts, the state which is striving to be the first state to do away with tenure.) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:25:54 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Martin Besant Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 21 Sep 1998 to 22 Sep 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Mary Ann Solstad One of the more interesting toxic chemicals is Thallium. It's used as a Rat poison in several European and most Mid east and Asian countries. The symptoms of Poisoning are very difficult to detect. There are excellent articles in Journals and magazines such as discover or omni. Agatha Christie wrote a novel about this toxin " Pale Horse" or something like that ("Pale Rider??") which figured prominently in one hospitals diagnosis of a real poisoning case. I May be confusing Thallium with another elementary chemical toxin, but I think the japanese call the condition "Ouchie Ouchie" due to the sensitivity of the victims skin nerve endings. Perhaps another list member can help or correct me on that Marty Besant West Seneca East Sr HS A suburb of Buffalo, NY ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:33:41 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Martin Besant Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 21 Sep 1998 to 22 Sep 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit As I read through the thread of poisons and toxins, I was strongly interested in the DDT discussion. No mention of DDT as a psuedo-estrogen and its effcts on calcim metabolism. I believe this is the primary reason DDT had to be removed from the list of useful pesticides. The cost benefit ratio of DDT should be strongly studied. Obviously birds and reptiles are impacted significantly by changes in calcium metabolism. Consequences of osteoporosis in humans and decreased sperm counts among many mammals. DDT is probably one of our centuries most difficult to decide upon chemicals. And that makes it of exterme interest. Marty Besant ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:53:12 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike hinz Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 21 Sep 1998 to 22 Sep 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Itai itai, (translation: ouch ouch), disease is the name given by the Japanese to cadmium poisoning. Mike Hinz Chemistry Dept. Washington State University At 09:25 PM 9/23/98 EDT, you wrote: >Mary Ann Solstad >One of the more interesting toxic chemicals is Thallium. It's used as a Rat >poison in several European and most Mid east and Asian countries. The symptoms >of Poisoning are very difficult to detect. There are excellent articles in >Journals and magazines such as discover or omni. Agatha Christie wrote a novel >about this toxin " Pale Horse" or something like that ("Pale Rider??") which >figured prominently in one hospitals diagnosis of a real poisoning case. I May >be confusing Thallium with another elementary chemical toxin, but I think the >japanese call the condition "Ouchie Ouchie" due to the sensitivity of the >victims skin nerve endings. Perhaps another list member can help or correct me >on that >Marty Besant >West Seneca East Sr HS >A suburb of Buffalo, NY > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:12:39 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Debbie Decker Subject: icky ether questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Good morning: There's been a suggestion here about how to deal with rusty cans of ether (been in a fridge for years, cans are rusty, no reason to believe there are peroxides under the cap, no reason to believe there aren't peroxides under the cap ). It's been suggested that a detonator be used to blow off the cap to open the cans to pour off the ether. Personally, I think this has got to be the goofiest idea I've ever heard but the person making the suggestion has experience doing this and swears "it's the preferred method." Here are the questions: How would you all open rusty ether cans? Detonator on the top? Brass plumb bob to poke a hole in the top? Let the guys get out there with their rifles and shoot the tops off the cans? "Call the bomb squad" is not what I'm looking for here . Remember, Davis is a college town and the campus is viewed a certain level of suspicion by the community. We can't seem to get a square answer out of the regulators around here about the need for a permit or not (emergency permit? haz waste variance? no permit required?) None of the regulators seem to have a good answer. Does anyone know about the need for permitting this sort of activity? Does anyone have any information about whether or not ETSC (Emergency Technical Services Corp.) is still in business? I tried their number in IL and it's been disconnected :-( I think that's enough for now. Thanking you in advance for your help. Deb. Debbie Decker EH&S UCDavis (530)754-7964 dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:30:30 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Gillian Gardner Subject: Re: icky ether questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980924091239.007d4c70@scarlet.ucdavis.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Well, despite what you didn't want to hear, we do call the bomb squad for rusty ether. They take it out to an old rock quarry and shoot it. Anything that doesn't ignite/explode, they burn. Gillian Gardner ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:52:50 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Nick Spare Subject: Re: icky ether questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re: icky ether questions; As I understand this problem, the danger arises when actually opening the can. Once open, there are numerous methods for destroying peroxides. One idea (and please note, I have not done this personally): could you put the whole can in dilute hydrochloric acid, thus dissolving it (eventually)? Any peroxides can be treated in the normal ways either before or after separation of the resulting ether layer. Done anyone have any comments on this method? Nick Spare; CHO Pilot Chemical Co. -----Original Message----- From: Debbie Decker To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 9:12 AM Subject: icky ether questions >Good morning: > >There's been a suggestion here about how to deal with rusty cans of ether >(been in a fridge for years, cans are rusty, no reason to believe there are >peroxides under the cap, no reason to believe there aren't peroxides under >the cap ). > >It's been suggested that a detonator be used to blow off the cap to open >the cans to pour off the ether. Personally, I think this has got to be the >goofiest idea I've ever heard but the person making the suggestion has >experience doing this and swears "it's the preferred method." > >Here are the questions: > >How would you all open rusty ether cans? Detonator on the top? Brass >plumb bob to poke a hole in the top? Let the guys get out there with their >rifles and shoot the tops off the cans? "Call the bomb squad" is not what >I'm looking for here . Remember, Davis is a college town and the campus >is viewed a certain level of suspicion by the community. > >We can't seem to get a square answer out of the regulators around here >about the need for a permit or not (emergency permit? haz waste variance? >no permit required?) None of the regulators seem to have a good answer. >Does anyone know about the need for permitting this sort of activity? > >Does anyone have any information about whether or not ETSC (Emergency >Technical Services Corp.) is still in business? I tried their number in IL >and it's been disconnected :-( > >I think that's enough for now. Thanking you in advance for your help. > >Deb. > > > > >Debbie Decker >EH&S UCDavis >(530)754-7964 >dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:28:01 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: icky ether questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree- the problem arises when opening the cap. Screw caps are particulary bed. We found an old glass bottle- we took it "out back" and tossed rocks at it from behind the building until the glass broke. With a can, I guess I'd try to find a method of punching a hole in the can from behind shelter. Shooting with a .22 is not a bad idea, if you can do it safely. What would the "prudent person" do? I suspect call the bomb squad or some other professional disposal outfit. Bob "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation 201 Struble Road State College, PA 16801 phone 814-231-9214 fax 814-238-1567 email rburns@bigfoot.com -----Original Message----- From: Nick Spare To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 13:12 Subject: Re: icky ether questions >Re: icky ether questions; > >As I understand this problem, the danger arises when actually opening the >can. Once open, there are numerous methods for destroying peroxides. > >One idea (and please note, I have not done this personally): could you put >the whole can in dilute hydrochloric acid, thus dissolving it (eventually)? >Any peroxides can be treated in the normal ways either before or after >separation of the resulting ether layer. > >Done anyone have any comments on this method? > >Nick Spare; CHO Pilot Chemical Co. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Debbie Decker >To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 9:12 AM >Subject: icky ether questions > > >>Good morning: >> >>There's been a suggestion here about how to deal with rusty cans of ether >>(been in a fridge for years, cans are rusty, no reason to believe there are >>peroxides under the cap, no reason to believe there aren't peroxides under >>the cap ). >> >>It's been suggested that a detonator be used to blow off the cap to open >>the cans to pour off the ether. Personally, I think this has got to be the >>goofiest idea I've ever heard but the person making the suggestion has >>experience doing this and swears "it's the preferred method." >> >>Here are the questions: >> >>How would you all open rusty ether cans? Detonator on the top? Brass >>plumb bob to poke a hole in the top? Let the guys get out there with their >>rifles and shoot the tops off the cans? "Call the bomb squad" is not what >>I'm looking for here . Remember, Davis is a college town and the campus >>is viewed a certain level of suspicion by the community. >> >>We can't seem to get a square answer out of the regulators around here >>about the need for a permit or not (emergency permit? haz waste variance? >>no permit required?) None of the regulators seem to have a good answer. >>Does anyone know about the need for permitting this sort of activity? >> >>Does anyone have any information about whether or not ETSC (Emergency >>Technical Services Corp.) is still in business? I tried their number in IL >>and it's been disconnected :-( >> >>I think that's enough for now. Thanking you in advance for your help. >> >>Deb. >> >> >> >> >>Debbie Decker >>EH&S UCDavis >>(530)754-7964 >>dmdecker@ucdavis.edu > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:38:25 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Dewey Williams Subject: Re: icky ether questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980924091239.007d4c70@scarlet.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Rusted cans or not, any can of ether sitting around for several years should assumed to have peroxides. Call your current haz waste handler, tell them what you have and they will usually take care of it. Our waste handler contracts someone else to open and quench any questionable materials. I agree with you though. Using a detonator to blow the cap off a container that may have explosives materials within doesn't sound like the safest method. Kind of like opening a box of dynamite with a hand grenade. At 09:12 AM 9/24/98 -0700, you wrote: >Good morning: > >There's been a suggestion here about how to deal with rusty cans of ether >(been in a fridge for years, cans are rusty, no reason to believe there are >peroxides under the cap, no reason to believe there aren't peroxides under >the cap ). > >It's been suggested that a detonator be used to blow off the cap to open >the cans to pour off the ether. Personally, I think this has got to be the >goofiest idea I've ever heard but the person making the suggestion has >experience doing this and swears "it's the preferred method." > >Here are the questions: > >How would you all open rusty ether cans? Detonator on the top? Brass >plumb bob to poke a hole in the top? Let the guys get out there with their >rifles and shoot the tops off the cans? "Call the bomb squad" is not what >I'm looking for here . Remember, Davis is a college town and the campus >is viewed a certain level of suspicion by the community. > >We can't seem to get a square answer out of the regulators around here >about the need for a permit or not (emergency permit? haz waste variance? >no permit required?) None of the regulators seem to have a good answer. >Does anyone know about the need for permitting this sort of activity? > >Does anyone have any information about whether or not ETSC (Emergency >Technical Services Corp.) is still in business? I tried their number in IL >and it's been disconnected :-( > >I think that's enough for now. Thanking you in advance for your help. > >Deb. > > > > >Debbie Decker >EH&S UCDavis >(530)754-7964 >dmdecker@ucdavis.edu Dewey Williams - Lab Manager mailto:williams@email.uncc.edu UNC-Charlotte Chemistry Dept. http://www.chem.uncc.edu "These are my ideas and no one else will claim them." "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:56:18 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Gonzalez, Lisa" Subject: Re: icky ether questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I had to do this last year in New York State, I called a disposal company & they sent out their version of a bomb squad. They removed the cans from the building & conducted what they referred to as a "remote detonation". They used a explosion proof containment robot & the robot opens the container and measures the amount of 'explosive peroxides' released upon opening. And yes, the problem is with opening the container, because the salts can build up on the neck of the screw cap & when the cap is 'un-screwed' it causes friction, which causes threat, and then a "bang" if there is enough peroxide there. I would check with the local authorities (PD/or FD) if you are going to use a bomb squad, they may have some regulation that requires prior approval or notification (they do here). Lisa -----Original Message----- From: Debbie Decker [SMTP:dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU] Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 12:13 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: icky ether questions Good morning: There's been a suggestion here about how to deal with rusty cans of ether (been in a fridge for years, cans are rusty, no reason to believe there are peroxides under the cap, no reason to believe there aren't peroxides under the cap ). It's been suggested that a detonator be used to blow off the cap to open the cans to pour off the ether. Personally, I think this has got to be the goofiest idea I've ever heard but the person making the suggestion has experience doing this and swears "it's the preferred method." Here are the questions: How would you all open rusty ether cans? Detonator on the top? Brass plumb bob to poke a hole in the top? Let the guys get out there with their rifles and shoot the tops off the cans? "Call the bomb squad" is not what I'm looking for here . Remember, Davis is a college town and the campus is viewed a certain level of suspicion by the community. We can't seem to get a square answer out of the regulators around here about the need for a permit or not (emergency permit? haz waste variance? no permit required?) None of the regulators seem to have a good answer. Does anyone know about the need for permitting this sort of activity? Does anyone have any information about whether or not ETSC (Emergency Technical Services Corp.) is still in business? I tried their number in IL and it's been disconnected :-( I think that's enough for now. Thanking you in advance for your help. Deb. Debbie Decker EH&S UCDavis (530)754-7964 dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:03:43 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mike hinz Subject: Re: icky ether questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This idea is pretty wacky. I am not out to hurt anyone's feelings but I am sure I can come up with at least a dozen reasons why you DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME, KIDS! or anywhere else, for that matter. I will only elaborate on the most important reason, that being: strong acid + metal = exothermic reaction, which in in the presence of a hydrocarbon fuel may = a more spectacular exothermic reaction complete with possible flying shrapnel and splashing acid. You can imagine more. Mike Hinz Chemistry Dept. Washington State University At 09:52 AM 9/24/98 -0700, you wrote: >Re: icky ether questions; > >As I understand this problem, the danger arises when actually opening the >can. Once open, there are numerous methods for destroying peroxides. > >One idea (and please note, I have not done this personally): could you put >the whole can in dilute hydrochloric acid, thus dissolving it (eventually)? >Any peroxides can be treated in the normal ways either before or after >separation of the resulting ether layer. > >Done anyone have any comments on this method? > >Nick Spare; CHO Pilot Chemical Co. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 08:45:33 -1000 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Peter Batsakis Subject: Re: icky ether questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980924091239.007d4c70@scarlet.ucdavis.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Debbie, Some things to think about - if you decide to explode the containers, an EPA permit is required because you are "treating" the hazardous waste. We had a situation like this here at UH earlier in the year. We had to apply for a special EPA permit and then had to do an extensive clean-up of the explosion area to ensure no contamination. This involved alot of soil sampling. The EPA also had to approve our clean-up procedures. I hope this helps. Pete ********************************************** Peter Batsakis Chemical Hygiene Officer University of Hawaii at Manoa Environmental Health and Safety Office 2040 East-West Road, Honolulu, Hawaii 96822 Phone: (808) 956-3201 FAX: (808) 956-3205 E-mail: batsakis@hawaii.edu ********************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:11:28 -0500 Reply-To: sheri.prosch@Mankato.MSUS.EDU Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Sheri Prosch Subject: Educational Survey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Greetings! I am on a mission to better educate our administration on the dealings of our EHS department. We do have support, however, I am working on increasing that ($$$$). I do need to gather some information from other educational institutions. I would appreciate your assistance in e-mailing the following information to me. -Name of Institution -EHS, Safety, CHO etc., how many are located at your institution? -Who do they report to? -Faculty/Staff population -Student population Example: Minnesota State University - Mankato (formerly Mankato State U) 2 VP for Adminstrative and Financial Affairs 1100 12,000 Thank you in advance for your assistance. ---------------------- Sheri Prosch Minnesota State University-Mankato Chemical Hygiene Officer MSU 76 PO Box 8400 Mankato, MN 56002-8400 (507)389-5568 sheri.prosch@Mankato.MSUS.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:21:53 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Nick Spare Subject: Re: icky ether questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, so putting ether cans in acid is a wacky idea. The use of dilute (<1%) acid would possibly obviate the fire problem, but pressure build up in the can would still be dangerous. We all need someone to point out the obvious sometimes! With regard to adverse publicity when calling in the bomb squad - remember it is minor compared to what you get when have an actual explosion. -----Original Message----- From: Debbie Decker To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 9:12 AM Subject: icky ether questions >Good morning: > >There's been a suggestion here about how to deal with rusty cans of ether >(been in a fridge for years, cans are rusty, no reason to believe there are >peroxides under the cap, no reason to believe there aren't peroxides under >the cap ). > >It's been suggested that a detonator be used to blow off the cap to open >the cans to pour off the ether. Personally, I think this has got to be the >goofiest idea I've ever heard but the person making the suggestion has >experience doing this and swears "it's the preferred method." > >Here are the questions: > >How would you all open rusty ether cans? Detonator on the top? Brass >plumb bob to poke a hole in the top? Let the guys get out there with their >rifles and shoot the tops off the cans? "Call the bomb squad" is not what >I'm looking for here . Remember, Davis is a college town and the campus >is viewed a certain level of suspicion by the community. > >We can't seem to get a square answer out of the regulators around here >about the need for a permit or not (emergency permit? haz waste variance? >no permit required?) None of the regulators seem to have a good answer. >Does anyone know about the need for permitting this sort of activity? > >Does anyone have any information about whether or not ETSC (Emergency >Technical Services Corp.) is still in business? I tried their number in IL >and it's been disconnected :-( > >I think that's enough for now. Thanking you in advance for your help. > >Deb. > > > > >Debbie Decker >EH&S UCDavis >(530)754-7964 >dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:39:59 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: icky ether questions -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I had a similar situation with ether when I stared here six years ago. I = had a consulting/waste removal professional come in to evaluate the = situation. We had a house type refrigerator with several containers of ether. The = only one with a date on it was ten years old. The consultant called a = group from New York State to come and take care of the problem. It was a cold January morning during winter break. The local fire = department had dispatched an engine to our campus. The roads were sealed = off. Myself and a group of university officials were stationed behind a = barrier to watch as a robot brought the material out of the building and = proceeded to take care of business. It was all quite exciting to a new = comer to the safety field, and I might add, expensive to the university. Much to everyone=27s amazement, very low levels of peroxides were detected = and neutralized by the robot. No big bang or fires or other catastrophes = to report(thank God). It was a great learning experience for me and an eye opener for the = university. It made it a whole lot easier to get them on the safety = bandwagon when they realized the whole shooting match could have been = avoided with a few policies and some training, not to mention some = personnel to over see a chemical inventory. I would do the same thing again in a heart beat. I would not take the = chance nor would I expect coworkers to. Good luck, Janeen. *********************** Janeen Lapierre, Lab Coordinator*CHO University of New England*College of Osteopathic Medicine 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 207*283*0170 JLaPierre=40mailbox.une.edu ********************* All opinions expressed are not those of UNE. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:05:02 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Nadine Grady, CIH" Subject: Re: icky ether questions Comments: cc: dmdecker@scarlet.ucdavis.edu In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980924091239.007d4c70@scarlet.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Deb, Sounds like you have a really dangerous situation. We just had three cans like yours stabilized early last summer. After opening (ETSC drilled a hole in the cap remotely) they were tested, then iron chloride added to stabilize them for safe disposal. One can contained so much peroxide that it turned the test paper black almost instantly, then proceeded to bleach all the indicator out of the strip, leaving it white. Peroxide concentration was something >>300 ppm -- a potential bomb. My advice to you is: 1. DON'T remove the cans from the refrigerator! If peroxide crystals have formed under the cap threads, the expansion that results from the can warming up can cause it to detonate. 2. Don't move or handle the can any more than you absolutely have to. If it's been around for years, it's very likely to contain peroxide, and possibly a LOT of it. According to "Prudent Practices in the Laboratory (p.54), organic peroxides are more shock-sensitive than most primary explosives such as TNT. 3. Get hold of ETSC or someone with equal expertise promptly. ETSC website: http://www.etscgs.com Olympia, WA office: Dave Blair, dblair@etscgs.com, (360)709-9533 Belvidere, IL office: Scott Zimber, szimber@etscgs.com, (201)547-3237 4. Check out your other storage areas for old ethers, and have them all dealt with at once. ETSC's work is good, but they aren't cheap. Since most of the cost is for getting them there, you don't want to pay for extra trips. (Note: Various lab safety references recommend storing the worst peroxide-formers for no more than 3-6 months, with testing for peroxide formation before use and at least every 3 months. See "Prudent Practices" (p. 56) for a prioritized list of peroxide-formers.) Nadine B. Grady, MS, RS, CIH Chemical Hygiene Officer Whitworth College 300 W. Hawthorne Rd. Spokane, WA 99251-3903 phone (509) 777-4510 fax (509) 777-3221 ngrady@whitworth.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:00:55 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Patricia DePra Subject: Re: icky ether questions We had the same situation here two years ago. An environmental wast waste firm came, donned the bomb suits, removed the cans to a parking lot, and did a remote opening. They then added something to react with the peroxides. We did this over winter break, and there was very little (if any) waves from it. I'm sure it would have been a different story in the middle of the semester. They closed off the entire building when they did this. If you go this route, (which I do personally recommend), be sure to have the facilities people bid the job out. The first people we talked to bid $8,000. I don't know how much the others charged, but it was much less. Patricia DePra Westfield State College Westfield, MA p.s. by waves i meant negative p.r. waves ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:46:25 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Wesley Kolar Subject: Re: icky ether questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980924091239.007d4c70@scarlet.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It may not be what you want to hear, but the safest way to handle the ether is to let the professionals do it (I.E. the bomb squad or hazmat team). An alternative is to submerge the cans in a water bath for a day or two. This should help to dissolve any peroxides under the cap. Opening the cans is still a risky proposition at best. The worst case scenario involved with opening the cans yourself is not a pleasant one. Wes Kolar UGA Environmental Safety Specialist At 09:12 AM 9/24/98 -0700, you wrote: >Good morning: > >There's been a suggestion here about how to deal with rusty cans of ether >(been in a fridge for years, cans are rusty, no reason to believe there are >peroxides under the cap, no reason to believe there aren't peroxides under >the cap ). > >It's been suggested that a detonator be used to blow off the cap to open >the cans to pour off the ether. Personally, I think this has got to be the >goofiest idea I've ever heard but the person making the suggestion has >experience doing this and swears "it's the preferred method." > >Here are the questions: > >How would you all open rusty ether cans? Detonator on the top? Brass >plumb bob to poke a hole in the top? Let the guys get out there with their >rifles and shoot the tops off the cans? "Call the bomb squad" is not what >I'm looking for here . Remember, Davis is a college town and the campus >is viewed a certain level of suspicion by the community. > >We can't seem to get a square answer out of the regulators around here >about the need for a permit or not (emergency permit? haz waste variance? >no permit required?) None of the regulators seem to have a good answer. >Does anyone know about the need for permitting this sort of activity? > >Does anyone have any information about whether or not ETSC (Emergency >Technical Services Corp.) is still in business? I tried their number in IL >and it's been disconnected :-( > >I think that's enough for now. Thanking you in advance for your help. > >Deb. > > > > >Debbie Decker >EH&S UCDavis >(530)754-7964 >dmdecker@ucdavis.edu > Wes Kolar ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:49:40 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Debbie Decker Subject: Re: icky ether questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980924130502.007cc100@whitworth.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Nadine (and group): >3. Get hold of ETSC or someone with equal expertise promptly. > ETSC website: http://www.etscgs.com > Olympia, WA office: Dave Blair, dblair@etscgs.com, (360)709-9533 > Belvidere, IL office: Scott Zimber, szimber@etscgs.com, (201)547-3237 Thanks for the newest info on ETSC!!! I had used these guys to dispose of some very scary cylinders several years back but their old number was disconnected. Dave Blair was the project supervisor - extremely competent. I continue to collect the thread - keep those cards and letters coming! I'll summarize for the list in a day or two and I'll let y'all know what we decide to do. California Department of Toxics is supposed to get back to us with permitting information, in case our haz waste hauler is set on his goofy detonator idea. Thanks for the information so far :-) Deb. Debbie Decker EH&S UCDavis (530)754-7964 dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:25:08 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Dewey Williams Subject: examples of flammable class chemicals needed In-Reply-To: <57E6A7DC2073D111BD7500A0C999344D51000F@2smbx01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am looking for a list of common chemicals grouped by flammable class. If anyone has such a list or can point me to one of the web I would be most thankful. TIA Dewey Williams - Lab Manager mailto:williams@email.uncc.edu UNC-Charlotte Chemistry Dept. http://www.chem.uncc.edu "These are my ideas and no one else will claim them." "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:08:05 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: UV safety Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Any UV experts out there? I received a question from a curator of a large culture collection of algae. We have a fairly large sterile transfer room, always illuminated with a germicidal lamp when not in use. The lamp switch is inside the room, so that one has to walk several paces through the room to reach it. Is the temporary exposure to the UV light of sufficient concern to warrant changing the position of the switch to an outside wall, or is it not a significant problem? Several people enter the room several times a day, but their front sides are only exposed for a few seconds each time they enter and their back sides only for a few seconds each time they leave. The room has been that way for many years, but there is a new curator who is a more enlightened about safety than his predecessor. The germicidal lamp emits UV-B radiation. In addition, there is a glass (i.e., real not Plexiglass or polycarbonate) window in the same room; someone looking into the room looks directly at the germicidal lamp through the window. I am assuming that brief exposures to UV-B aren't presenting a hazard, but I'm definitely no expert. I welcome comments - feel free to respond OFF-LINE. I'll summarize results for the list. Thanks, JNR Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS College of Natural Sciences G2500 W.C. Hogg Building University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712-1199 (512) 471-6176 (O) (512) 471-4998 (F) jrubin@mail.utexas.edu "The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise specified." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:59:36 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ray Campbell Subject: Re: UV safety In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I can not assist you, however I could not resist the chance to teel you that I love your postscript. It is the best that I have ever seen. Ray Campbell REA CHO 310-257-1080 At 05:08 PM 9/24/98 -0500, you wrote: >Any UV experts out there? > >I received a question from a curator of a large culture collection of algae. > >We have a fairly large sterile transfer room, always illuminated with a >germicidal lamp when not in use. The lamp switch is inside the room, so >that one has to walk several paces through the room to reach it. Is the >temporary exposure to the UV light of sufficient concern to warrant >changing the position of the switch to an outside wall, or is it not a >significant problem? Several >people enter the room several times a day, but their front sides are only >exposed for a few seconds each time they enter and their back sides only >for a few seconds each time they leave. The room has been that way for many >years, but there is a new curator who is a more enlightened about safety >than his predecessor. The germicidal lamp emits UV-B radiation. > >In addition, there is a glass (i.e., real not Plexiglass or polycarbonate) >window in the same room; someone looking into the room looks directly at >the germicidal lamp through the window. > >I am assuming that brief exposures to UV-B aren't presenting a hazard, but >I'm definitely no expert. I welcome comments - feel free to respond >OFF-LINE. I'll summarize results for the list. > >Thanks, > >JNR > >Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS >College of Natural Sciences G2500 >W.C. Hogg Building >University of Texas at Austin >Austin, TX 78712-1199 >(512) 471-6176 (O) >(512) 471-4998 (F) >jrubin@mail.utexas.edu > >"The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise >specified." > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:56:28 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jon Rossillon Subject: Re: Educational Survey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sheri, I believe what you want is the data from the Campus Safety, Health and = Environmental Management Association's (CSHEMA's) benchmarking study. = It is an awesome document as it surveys over 100 educational = institutions (I can't remember how many exactly) on eighteen different = EHS functions such as hazardous waste management, lab safety, fire = safety, biosafety, etc. The institutions are broken into four groups by = similarity in size and functions. I suggest you contact Barbara S. = Shafer & Associates (they are the outside consultants who did the = survey) at (781) 861-7321 and ask about the CSHEMA Benchmarking Service = 1997 Participant Survey results and how to get a copy of last year's = survey and about how to get in on this year's survey. It does cost some = money, but I think that it is definitely worth it in terms of salary = issues and program issues. Also, the consultant group's address is: Barbara S. Shafer & Associates 594 Marrett Road, Suite 22 Lexington, MA 02173 Regards, Jon Rossillon Hazardous Materials Manager University of Kansas jrossillon@ehs.ukans.edu ---------- From: Sheri Prosch Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 2:11 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Educational Survey Greetings! I am on a mission to better educate our administration on the dealings of our EHS department. We do have support, however, I am working on increasing that ($$$$). I do need to gather some information from other educational institutions. I would appreciate your assistance in e-mailing the following information to me. -Name of Institution -EHS, Safety, CHO etc., how many are located at your institution? -Who do they report to? -Faculty/Staff population -Student population Example: Minnesota State University - Mankato (formerly Mankato State U) 2 VP for Adminstrative and Financial Affairs 1100 12,000 Thank you in advance for your assistance. ---------------------- Sheri Prosch Minnesota State University-Mankato Chemical Hygiene Officer MSU 76 PO Box 8400 Mankato, MN 56002-8400 (507)389-5568 sheri.prosch@Mankato.MSUS.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 07:10:29 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: CHO job description Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-23 11:57:59 EDT, you write: << And finally, the responsibilities of a CHO seem meaningless unless they have the authority to enforce the rules. Do any of you run into this situation? >> JAK: Enforcement of rules needs to be a responsibility of management and not staff. In academic institution, that means that the president, the provost, the dean, the department head, the principal investigator need to enforce the institutions rules, ... jim ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 07:10:27 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: poisons, toxins Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-23 11:51:46 EDT, you write: << I'm not quite sure that I understand the reason for the emphasis on the fact that DDT has seemingly caused few direct human deaths, especially from a listserve that focuses on safety. >> JAK: The original request to the list was for alternate suggestions for some toxins to use for term papers. I thought that DDT would make an interesting choice because it has same more lives than any other toxin. It provides a unique opportunity to look at risk and benefit. .... jim ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 07:40:43 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: CHO job description MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree- our CHP (industrial R&D) spells out the responsibility of the managers. The Lab Standard descrips it pretty well too. In my view, the CHO is a staff adviser to the managers. -----Original Message----- From: Labsafe@AOL.COM To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 07:13 Subject: Re: CHO job description >In a message dated 98-09-23 11:57:59 EDT, you write: > ><< And finally, the responsibilities of a CHO seem meaningless > unless they have the authority to enforce the rules. Do any of > you run into this situation? >> > >JAK: Enforcement of rules needs to be a responsibility of management >and not staff. In academic institution, that means that the president, >the provost, the dean, the department head, the principal investigator >need to enforce the institutions rules, ... jim > > ***************************************************** > James A. Kaufman, President > The Laboratory Safety Workshop > 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 > 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com > Safety in Science Education > >The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational >organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and >important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory >Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar >schedule, and membership information are available on request. > > The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. > Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG > ********************************************************************** > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:00:10 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Safety Info site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's a safety info site. I got it from the latest issue of "Today's Chemist at Work". http://www.chemquik.com/ "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation 201 Struble Road State College, PA 16801 phone 814-231-9214 fax 814-238-1567 email rburns@bigfoot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 08:25:56 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Lenore Koliha Subject: labsafety-DAB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Morning...I am looking for information regarding destruction of diaminobenzidine (DAB). It is my understanding that bleach does destroy the DAB, but one or more of the reaction products are mutagenic. Sulfuric acid and potassium permanganate will break down DAB, but the resulting waste is cossosive/oxidizer. It seems the best way to go... is to not treat the DAB at all (since it increases the volume) and then send it out with the haz. waste for incineration. I would appreciate any documentation of approved disposal practices or just words of wisdom. Thanks! ***************************************************************** * * * Lenore Koliha e-mail: lkoliha@creighton.edu * * Chemical Specialist ph#: (402)546-6404 * * Dept. EH&S fax: (402)546-6403 * * Creighton U. * * Jahn Bldg., Rm-110 * * 2204 Burt St. * * Omaha, NE 68178 * ***************************************************************** The true measure of a man is not by the life he leads... but by the memory he leaves behind. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:30:10 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "M. Drago" Subject: ACRONYMS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good morning, everyone: Would someone repond to the list explaining the following acronyms: REA NRCC-CHO CCHO CHP EPP PEL CHO-COM TWA (not the airline!) TLV ACGIH TLV-STEL Thanks so much for your guidance. We're learning out here!! Marcia Drago ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 07:08:33 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Neal Langerman Subject: Rubber Cement - High School Use Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is specifically for high school staff who watch this list: What brand(s) of rubber cement and other glues are used in your arts/crafts classes? Thanks for the information. Neal ************************************************************* NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY 8909 Complex Drive San Diego CA 92123-1418 619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX) 619 990 4908 (cellular) visit our homepage: http://www.chemical-safety.com ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:08:54 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Matthew Navea Subject: Re: ACRONYMS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "M. Drago" on 09/28/98 09:30:10 AM Please respond to LABSAFETY-L Discussion List To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU cc: (bcc: Matthew Navea/ColorconUS) Subject: ACRONYMS REA NRCC-CHO CCHO CHP EPP PEL CHO-COM TWA (not the airline!) TLV ACGIH TLV-STEL Here's a few: Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL)- Established by OSHA, this may be expressed as TWA (Time Weighted Average), a Short Term Exposure Limit (STEL), or as a Ceiling (C) limit. OSHA PEL's have the force of law. Time Weighted Average (TWA) - the allowable time-weighted average concentration for a normal 8-hr workday or 40 hour week . Threshold Limit Value (TLV)- A term ACGIH (American Council for Governmental Industrial Hygienists) uses to express the maximum airborne concentration of a material to which most workers can be exposed to during a normal daily and weekly work schedule without undesirable affects Good morning, everyone: Would someone repond to the list explaining the following acronyms: REA NRCC-CHO CCHO CHP EPP PEL CHO-COM TWA (not the airline!) TLV ACGIH TLV-STEL Thanks so much for your guidance. We're learning out here!! Marcia Drago ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:23:40 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: ACRONYMS -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>>>>>>>>> Good morning, everyone: Would someone respond to the list explaining the following acronyms: REA NRCC-CHO CCHO-Certified Chemical Hygiene Officer CHP-Chemical Hygiene Plan EPP-Exposure Protection Plan? PEL-Permissible Exposure Limit CHO-COM-Chemical Hygiene Officer for the College of Osteopathic Medicine(my title at UNE(University of New England) TWA-Time Weighted Average (not the airline!) TLV-Threshold Limit Value ACGIH-American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists TLV-STEL - Threshold Limit Value-Short Term Exposure Limit Thanks so much for your guidance. We're learning out here!! Marcia Drago <<<<<<<<<< Marcia, Most of these Acronyms are OSHA terms or exposure limits that employers must abide by. Check an MSDS and you will find these sprinkled liberally about. I found a very useful tool in deciphering these and learning them in a little student lab safety book called Working Safely with Chemicals staring Hugh B. Careful. I used this book as a text for a lab safety course I taught for secondary education majors in the undergraduate school. After repeating these things for training sessions you end up knowing them better than your own kids' names. I must admit that from time to time I come across some acronyms that leave me scratching my head. You will notice there were a couple in your list. Maybe we should compose a list and and post it so we could pull it up from the archives of the list as a reference tool? Good luck and keep asking questions. They help us all. Janeen ******************* Janeen Lapierre, Chemical Hygiene Officer College of Osteopathic Medicine University of New England Biddeford, ME 04005 (207)283-0170 x2446 JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU All opinions expressed are mine and do not necessarily reflect those of the university. ***************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:49:55 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Gilbert Smith Subject: Re: ACRONYMS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit NRCC-CHO refers to a certified Chemical Hygiene Officer certified by the National Registry in Clinical Chemistry. The designation follows a person's name. Request for information on CHO certification should be sent to NRCC6@aol.com. Or see: National Registry in Clinical Chemistry Gilbert Smith ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:04:57 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ray Campbell Subject: Re: ACRONYMS In-Reply-To: <360F8F62.C4AD33A3@cfcc.cc.fl.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My fault!!! REA= Registered Environmental Assessor CCHO= Certified Chemical Hygiene Officer CHP= Chemical Hygiene Plan PEL=Permissable Exposure Limit TWA= Time Weighted Average TLV= Threshold Limit Value ACGIH= American Conference of Government Industrial Hygienists TLV-STEL= Threshold Limit Value-Short Term Exposure Limit Ray Campbell REA CCHO 310-257-1080 At 09:30 AM 9/28/98 -0400, you wrote: >Good morning, everyone: >Would someone repond to the list explaining the following acronyms: >REA NRCC-CHO CCHO CHP EPP PEL >CHO-COM TWA (not the airline!) TLV ACGIH TLV-STEL >Thanks so much for your guidance. We're learning out here!! >Marcia Drago > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:07:56 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jim Mudd Subject: Re: ACRONYMS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit REA stands for Registered Environmental Auditor through the National Registry of Environmental Professionals Jim Mudd ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:01:28 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: beth Organization: Indiana University of Pennsylvania Subject: Introduction to lab for high school students MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I am a pre service teacher who would like to develop a lesson on the proper handling of chemicals and materials within the lab. I would like any lessons or previous lessons that were a success. Thank You Very Much Beth Langham GNXG@grove.iup.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:11:15 -0400 Reply-To: fullert@bc.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Thomas Fuller Subject: Benchmark of Student Bloodborne Pathogen Policies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I am submitting a survey to you to determine a benchmark for the safety and controls over student work with human body materials and fluids. Please provide answers to the following questions and relay them to me directly at fullert@bc.edu. Thank you for your participation. Does your institution allow undergraduate or graduate students to work with bloodborne pathogens? Does your institution allow students to work with other potentially infectious materials as defined by OSHA 29CFR1910.1030(b)? Does your institute allow students to work with saliva, urine, or feces? If you do allow students to work with materials which fall into any of the categories listed above, what precautions and controls are required to assure their safe use in the teaching or research laboratory settings? ---------------------- Thomas Fuller Biological Safety Officer fullert@bc.edu Boston College ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:53:24 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Julie O'Brien Subject: Carbon Tetrachloride Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I would like some examples of policies regarding handling of Carbon tetrachloride. I know that it is a possible human carcinogen. Do you perform monitoring? Does your decision to do monitoring depend on the quantity being handled? How does your policies for handling possible human carcinogens compare to known carcinogens? Thanks in advance for your help. Chemist PCR, Inc. PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 ext. 232 Fax 352-373-7503 afn35210@afn.org Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville PO Box 5951 Gainesville, FL 32627 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:35:41 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Carbon Tetrachloride -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Julie. We handle possible carcinogens the same as known carcinogens. I say that = because data is acquired at an ever greater rate today and chemicals = change listings. Chemicals that I have worked with in the past that were = not even suspect at the time are now known human carcinogens. Ere on the = side of safety, Janeen. *********************** Janeen Lapierre, Lab Coordinator*CHO University of New England*College of Osteopathic Medicine 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 207*283*0170 JLaPierre=40mailbox.une.edu ********************* All opinions expressed are not those of UNE. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:51:12 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Teresa Robertson Organization: CSU Bakersfield Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride -Reply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU,.internet writes: >We handle possible carcinogens the same as known carcinogens. This is the requirement per the "Lab Standard" also. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:16:16 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "O'Keeffe, Barbara" Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Not to sound uppity, but why are you using carbon tet? Your organization would seem to suggest that alternatives need to be explored. There are other solvents that will probably do the job just as well - - and it isn't just the lab standard that you need to worry about; also hazwaste and CAA regs. Barb Barbara O'Keeffe Environmental Services Group, Advancia Corporation Email: okeeffeb@advancia.com Voice: 580-355-1471 Fax: 580-357-9360 211 SW "A" Avenue, Lawton, OK 73501 -----Original Message----- From: Julie O'Brien [SMTP:afn35210@AFN.ORG] Sent: September 29, 1998 11:53 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Carbon Tetrachloride I would like some examples of policies regarding handling of Carbon tetrachloride. I know that it is a possible human carcinogen. Do you perform monitoring? Does your decision to do monitoring depend on the quantity being handled? How does your policies for handling possible human carcinogens compare to known carcinogens? Thanks in advance for your help. Chemist PCR, Inc. PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 ext. 232 Fax 352-373-7503 afn35210@afn.org Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville PO Box 5951 Gainesville, FL 32627 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:01:11 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ray Campbell Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride In-Reply-To: <199809291653.MAA17918@freenet5.afn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" There is no such thing as an unloaded gun. You should always perform monitoring- both area and personal. No less than once per year for biological monitoring. If you are using the material under the Lab Standard, make sure that you use it in a clearly delineated area. Confine usage to a small group. If you are using it in support of production, confine and contain it as much as possible. If possible use continuous area monitoring. You cannot be too safe. PS My facility uses carcinogens because there are no alternatives. There are no alternatives to using chemicals, but there are ways to use them safely. Let us not throw stones, let us help one another. PPS Ther will be another sermon this Sunday. Ray Campbell REA CCHO 310-257-1080 At 12:53 PM 9/29/98 -0400, you wrote: >I would like some examples of policies regarding handling of Carbon >tetrachloride. I know that it is a possible human carcinogen. Do you >perform monitoring? Does your decision to do monitoring depend on the >quantity being handled? How does your policies for handling possible human >carcinogens compare to known carcinogens? Thanks in advance for your help. >Chemist >PCR, Inc. >PO Box 1466 >Gainesville, FL 32602 >352-376-8246 ext. 232 >Fax 352-373-7503 >afn35210@afn.org > >Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer >EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville >PO Box 5951 >Gainesville, FL 32627 > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:06:38 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Gonzalez, Lisa" Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain AMEN! -----Original Message----- From: Ray Campbell [SMTP:ray.campbell@SPP.VARIAN.COM] Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 4:01 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride There is no such thing as an unloaded gun. You should always perform monitoring- both area and personal. No less than once per year for biological monitoring. If you are using the material under the Lab Standard, make sure that you use it in a clearly delineated area. Confine usage to a small group. If you are using it in support of production, confine and contain it as much as possible. If possible use continuous area monitoring. You cannot be too safe. PS My facility uses carcinogens because there are no alternatives. There are no alternatives to using chemicals, but there are ways to use them safely. Let us not throw stones, let us help one another. PPS Ther will be another sermon this Sunday. Ray Campbell REA CCHO 310-257-1080 At 12:53 PM 9/29/98 -0400, you wrote: >I would like some examples of policies regarding handling of Carbon >tetrachloride. I know that it is a possible human carcinogen. Do you >perform monitoring? Does your decision to do monitoring depend on the >quantity being handled? How does your policies for handling possible human >carcinogens compare to known carcinogens? Thanks in advance for your help. >Chemist >PCR, Inc. >PO Box 1466 >Gainesville, FL 32602 >352-376-8246 ext. 232 >Fax 352-373-7503 >afn35210@afn.org > >Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer >EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville >PO Box 5951 >Gainesville, FL 32627 > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:32:00 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Tayman, Tammy" Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Can anyone suggest a better alternative for CCL4 when doing proton NMR? Some of the compounds our students have to analyse are not soluble in much of anything else, and the only alternatives we have found so far are actually much worse! ---------- From: Gonzalez, Lisa To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride Date: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 4:06PM AMEN! -----Original Message----- From: Ray Campbell [SMTP:ray.campbell@SPP.VARIAN.COM] Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 4:01 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride There is no such thing as an unloaded gun. You should always perform monitoring- both area and personal. No less than once per year for biological monitoring. If you are using the material under the Lab Standard, make sure that you use it in a clearly delineated area. Confine usage to a small group. If you are using it in support of production, confine and contain it as much as possible. If possible use continuous area monitoring. You cannot be too safe. PS My facility uses carcinogens because there are no alternatives. There are no alternatives to using chemicals, but there are ways to use them safely. Let us not throw stones, let us help one another. PPS Ther will be another sermon this Sunday. Ray Campbell REA CCHO 310-257-1080 At 12:53 PM 9/29/98 -0400, you wrote: >I would like some examples of policies regarding handling of Carbon >tetrachloride. I know that it is a possible human carcinogen. Do you >perform monitoring? Does your decision to do monitoring depend on the >quantity being handled? How does your policies for handling possible human >carcinogens compare to known carcinogens? Thanks in advance for your help. >Chemist >PCR, Inc. >PO Box 1466 >Gainesville, FL 32602 >352-376-8246 ext. 232 >Fax 352-373-7503 >afn35210@afn.org > >Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer >EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville >PO Box 5951 >Gainesville, FL 32627 > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:06:04 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Frank l. Switzer" Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:16 PM 9/29/98 -0500, you wrote: >Not to sound uppity, but why are you using carbon tet? Your >organization would >seem to suggest that alternatives need to be explored. There are other >solvents >that will probably do the job just as well - - and it isn't just the >lab standard that >you need to worry about; also hazwaste and CAA regs. What solvents are effective replacements for carbon tetrachloride in radical brominations with NBS? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Frank L. Switzer, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Chemistry Coker College 300 East College Ave. Hartsville, SC 29550 Phone: (843)383-8090 Fax:(843)383-8048 e-mail: fswitzer@pascal.coker.edu http://www.coker.edu/chemistry "Everything is easy once you know how" Paul Traficante ==================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 01:32:14 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride In-Reply-To: <199809292122.QAA14374@saluki-mail.siu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Help! Has today's regulatory environment made everyone afraid of their own= shadow. Sadly, some common lab solvents were first identified as suspect= carcinogens from reports of early industrial exposures. It was written by= Paracelsus, who was born the year after Columbus set sail "All substances= are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose= differentiates a poison from a remedy". Many mistakes were made early on= in the development of chemistry. But by the 40's thru 60's most all= academic labs had at least 2 fume hoods. Most chemists lived to as ripe= and healthy an old age as the general population. Now we are using= semi-micro amounts, have a fume hood for every 2 students, MSDS's= available, and the kids, and even many of their teachers are scared of any= and all chemicals. The MISS USE of chemicals is dangerous. Prudent use= of necessary amounts of CCl4 or CH2Cl2 with appropriate tested ventilation,= and other controls, as laid out in the CHP, should not cause a problem. = Consider the very potent carcinogen, tobacco smoke: do you suggest that= the smoking of 1 cigarette, or even 1 pack, will lead a given person, or= even 1 of a group of 1000, to cancer 30 years down the line? On the other= hand, do you suppose that spilling and thence splashing some concentrated= NaOH, while not wearing safety goggles, will almost guarantee painful eye= damage, and possible blindness. =20 It was written by Paracelsus, who was born the year after Columbus set sail= "All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The= right dose differentiates a poison from a remedy". Consider some= examples: aspirin, alcohol, selenium, Vit. A. I've abbreviated much of my argument, which would never pass as a fully= developed essay, due to the hour & another report I should be writing. Mary Ann At 04:32 PM 9/29/98 -0400, you wrote: >Can anyone suggest a better alternative for CCL4 when doing proton NMR? >Some of the compounds our students have to analyse are not soluble in much >of anything else, and the only alternatives we have found so far are >actually much worse! > ---------- >From: Gonzalez, Lisa >To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride >Date: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 4:06PM > >AMEN! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ray Campbell [SMTP:ray.campbell@SPP.VARIAN.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 4:01 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride > > There is no such thing as an unloaded gun. You should always >perform > monitoring- both area and personal. No less than once per year >for > biological monitoring. If you are using the material under the >Lab > Standard, make sure that you use it in a clearly delineated >area. Confine > usage to a small group. If you are using it in support of >production, > confine and contain it as much as possible. If possible use >continuous area > monitoring. You cannot be too safe. > > PS My facility uses carcinogens because there are no >alternatives. There > are no alternatives to using chemicals, but there are ways to >use them > safely. Let us not throw stones, let us help one another. > > PPS Ther will be another sermon this Sunday. > > > Ray Campbell REA CCHO > 310-257-1080 > > > > > At 12:53 PM 9/29/98 -0400, you wrote: > >I would like some examples of policies regarding handling of >Carbon > >tetrachloride. I know that it is a possible human carcinogen. >Do you > >perform monitoring? Does your decision to do monitoring depend >on the > >quantity being handled? How does your policies for handling >possible human > >carcinogens compare to known carcinogens? Thanks in advance >for your help. > >Chemist > >PCR, Inc. > >PO Box 1466 > >Gainesville, FL 32602 > >352-376-8246 ext. 232 > >Fax 352-373-7503 > >afn35210@afn.org > > > >Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer > >EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville > >PO Box 5951 > >Gainesville, FL 32627 > > > Mary Ann Mary Ann Solstad 16 Pequot Rd Marblehead, MA 01945-1202 tel 781-631-4748, FAX 781-631-1832 outmsolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:28:01 -0300 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Aziz M. Abu-khalaf" Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mary Ann wrote: >"All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison from a remedy". >The MISS USE of chemicals is dangerous. Who would gauarantee the proper use of the right dose everywhere and at any time? >Many mistakes were made early on in the development of chemistry. Mistakes can be made also now and at any other time. >Consider the very potent carcinogen, tobacco smoke: do you suggest that the smoking of 1 cigarette, or even 1 pack, will lead a given person, or even 1 of a group of 1000, to cancer 30 years down the line? On the other hand, do you suppose that spilling and thence splashing some concentrated NaOH, while not wearing safety goggles, will almost guarantee painful eye damage, and possible blindness. This argument can hold for any chemical! Best regards. Aziz. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 07:16:53 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01BDEC42.4C93E740" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BDEC42.4C93E740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you, Mary Ann, for a note of reason. You said what I would have = liked to say, but much better than I could. Thanks again! Bob "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation 201 Struble Road State College, PA 16801 phone 814-231-9214 fax 814-238-1567 email rburns@bigfoot.com -----Original Message----- From: Mary Ann Solstad To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 1:49 Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride =20 =20 Help! Has today's regulatory environment made everyone afraid of = their own shadow. Sadly, some common lab solvents were first identified = as suspect carcinogens from reports of early industrial exposures. It = was written by Paracelsus, who was born the year after Columbus set sail = "All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The = right dose differentiates a poison from a remedy". Many mistakes were = made early on in the development of chemistry. But by the 40's thru 60's = most all academic labs had at least 2 fume hoods. Most chemists lived to = as ripe and healthy an old age as the general population. Now we are = using semi-micro amounts, have a fume hood for every 2 students, MSDS's = available, and the kids, and even many of their teachers are scared of = any and all chemicals. The MISS USE of chemicals is dangerous. Prudent = use of necessary amounts of CCl4 or CH2Cl2 with appropriate tested = ventilation, and other controls, as laid out in the CHP, should not = cause a problem. Consider the very potent carcinogen, tobacco smoke: do = you suggest that the smoking of 1 cigarette, or even 1 pack, will lead a = given person, or even 1 of a group of 1000, to cancer 30 years down the = line? On the other hand, do you suppose that spilling and thence = splashing some concentrated NaOH, while not wearing safety goggles, will = almost guarantee painful eye damage, and possible blindness.=20 =20 It was written by Paracelsus, who was born the year after Columbus = set sail "All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a = poison. The right dose differentiates a poison from a remedy". Consider = some examples: aspirin, alcohol, selenium, Vit. A. =20 I've abbreviated much of my argument, which would never pass as a = fully developed essay, due to the hour & another report I should be = writing. =20 Mary Ann =20 At 04:32 PM 9/29/98 -0400, you wrote: >Can anyone suggest a better alternative for CCL4 when doing proton = NMR? >Some of the compounds our students have to analyse are not soluble = in much >of anything else, and the only alternatives we have found so far = are >actually much worse! > ---------- >From: Gonzalez, Lisa >To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride >Date: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 4:06PM > >AMEN! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ray Campbell [SMTP:ray.campbell@SPP.VARIAN.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 4:01 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride > > There is no such thing as an unloaded gun. You should always >perform > monitoring- both area and personal. No less than once per year >for > biological monitoring. If you are using the material under the >Lab > Standard, make sure that you use it in a clearly delineated >area. Confine > usage to a small group. If you are using it in support of >production, > confine and contain it as much as possible. If possible use >continuous area > monitoring. You cannot be too safe. > > PS My facility uses carcinogens because there are no >alternatives. There > are no alternatives to using chemicals, but there are ways to >use them > safely. Let us not throw stones, let us help one another. > > PPS Ther will be another sermon this Sunday. > > > Ray Campbell REA CCHO > 310-257-1080 > > > > > At 12:53 PM 9/29/98 -0400, you wrote: > >I would like some examples of policies regarding handling of >Carbon > >tetrachloride. I know that it is a possible human carcinogen. >Do you > >perform monitoring? Does your decision to do monitoring depend >on the > >quantity being handled? How does your policies for handling >possible human > >carcinogens compare to known carcinogens? Thanks in advance >for your help. > >Chemist > >PCR, Inc. > >PO Box 1466 > >Gainesville, FL 32602 > >352-376-8246 ext. 232 > >Fax 352-373-7503 > >afn35210@afn.org > > > >Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer > >EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville > >PO Box 5951 > >Gainesville, FL 32627 > > > Mary Ann =20 Mary Ann Solstad 16 Pequot Rd Marblehead, MA 01945-1202 tel 781-631-4748, FAX 781-631-1832 msolstad@mediaone.net =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BDEC42.4C93E740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you, Mary Ann, for a note of = reason. =20 You said what I would have liked to say, but much better than I=20 could.
 
Thanks again!
 
Bob
 
"Everything is easy for the = person who does=20 not have to do it!"
 
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader,=20 R&D
RUETGERS Organics Corporation
201 Struble Road
State = College,=20 PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Mary Ann Solstad <msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET>
To:=20 LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu = <LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>
Dat= e:=20 Wednesday, September 30, 1998 1:49
Subject: Re: Carbon = Tetrachloride

Help! Has today's regulatory = environment=20 made everyone afraid of their own shadow. Sadly, some common lab = solvents=20 were first identified as suspect carcinogens from reports of early=20 industrial exposures. It was written by Paracelsus, who was born the = year=20 after Columbus set sail "All substances are poisons; there is = none=20 which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison from a = remedy". Many mistakes were made early on in the development of = chemistry. But by the 40's thru 60's most all academic labs had at = least 2=20 fume hoods. Most chemists lived to as ripe and healthy an old age as = the=20 general population. Now we are using semi-micro amounts, have a fume = hood=20 for every 2 students, MSDS's available, and the kids, and even many = of their=20 teachers are scared of any and all chemicals. The MISS USE of = chemicals is=20 dangerous. Prudent use of necessary amounts of CCl4 or CH2Cl2 with=20 appropriate tested ventilation, and other controls, as laid out in = the CHP,=20 should not cause a problem. Consider the very potent carcinogen, = tobacco=20 smoke: do you suggest that the smoking of 1 cigarette, or even 1 = pack, will=20 lead a given person, or even 1 of a group of 1000, to cancer 30 = years down=20 the line? On the other hand, do you suppose that spilling and thence = splashing some concentrated NaOH, while not wearing safety goggles, = will=20 almost guarantee painful eye damage, and possible blindness. =

It was=20 written by Paracelsus, who was born the year after Columbus set sail = "All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a = poison. The=20 right dose differentiates a poison from a remedy". Consider = some=20 examples: aspirin, alcohol, selenium, Vit. A.

I've = abbreviated much=20 of my argument, which would never pass as a fully developed essay, = due to=20 the hour & another report I should be writing.

Mary = Ann

At=20 04:32 PM 9/29/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Can anyone suggest a = better=20 alternative for CCL4 when doing proton NMR?
>Some of the = compounds our=20 students have to analyse are not soluble in much
>of anything = else,=20 and the only alternatives we have found so far are
>actually = much=20 worse!
> ----------
>From: Gonzalez, Lisa
>To:=20 LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
>Subject: Re: Carbon = Tetrachloride
>Date:=20 Tuesday, September 29, 1998 = 4:06PM
>
>AMEN!
>
>=20 -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Campbell=20 [SMTP:ray.campbell@SPP.VARIAN.COM]
> Sent: Tuesday, September = 29, 1998=20 4:01 PM
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: Re: Carbon=20 Tetrachloride
>
> There is no such thing as an unloaded = gun. You=20 should always
>perform
> monitoring- both area and = personal. No=20 less than once per year
>for
> biological monitoring. If = you are=20 using the material under the
>Lab
> Standard, make sure = that you=20 use it in a clearly delineated
>area. Confine
> usage to = a small=20 group. If you are using it in support of
>production,
> = confine=20 and contain it as much as possible. If possible = use
>continuous=20 area
> monitoring. You cannot be too safe.
>
> PS = My=20 facility uses carcinogens because there are no
>alternatives.=20 There
> are no alternatives to using chemicals, but there are = ways=20 to
>use them
> safely. Let us not throw stones, let us = help one=20 another.
>
> PPS Ther will be another sermon this=20 Sunday.
>
>
> Ray Campbell REA CCHO
>=20 310-257-1080
>
>
>
>
> At 12:53 PM = 9/29/98=20 -0400, you wrote:
> >I would like some examples of policies = regarding handling of
>Carbon
> >tetrachloride. I = know that=20 it is a possible human carcinogen.
>Do you
> >perform = monitoring? Does your decision to do monitoring depend
>on = the
>=20 >quantity being handled? How does your policies for=20 handling
>possible human
> >carcinogens compare to = known=20 carcinogens? Thanks in advance
>for your help.
>=20 >Chemist
> >PCR, Inc.
> >PO Box 1466
>=20 >Gainesville, FL 32602
> >352-376-8246 ext. 232
> = >Fax=20 352-373-7503
> >afn35210@afn.org
> >
>=20 >Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer
> >EXPO The = Children's=20 Museum of Gainesville
> >PO Box 5951
> = >Gainesville, FL=20 32627
> >
>
Mary Ann

Mary Ann Solstad
16 = Pequot=20 Rd
Marblehead, MA 01945-1202
tel 781-631-4748, FAX = 781-631-1832
msolstad@mediaone.net

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BDEC42.4C93E740-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:30:53 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "O'Keeffe, Barbara" Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I doubt seriously that at a Children's Museum they are doing radical bromonations. In an organic lab, CCl4 may be the most appropriate thing to have around. But, if memory serves me correctly, she isn't. Given the price of CCl4 now, the problems associated with not only the Lab standard, but also with Hazwaste and CAA regs, why not go to something else? Barb Barbara O'Keeffe Environmental Services Group, Advancia Corporation Email: okeeffeb@advancia.com Voice: 580-355-1471 Fax: 580-357-9360 211 SW "A" Avenue, Lawton, OK 73501 -----Original Message----- From: Frank l. Switzer [SMTP:fswitzer@PASCAL.COKER.EDU] Sent: September 29, 1998 04:06 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride At 01:16 PM 9/29/98 -0500, you wrote: >Not to sound uppity, but why are you using carbon tet? Your >organization would >seem to suggest that alternatives need to be explored. There are other >solvents >that will probably do the job just as well - - and it isn't just the >lab standard that >you need to worry about; also hazwaste and CAA regs. What solvents are effective replacements for carbon tetrachloride in radical brominations with NBS? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Frank L. Switzer, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Chemistry Coker College 300 East College Ave. Hartsville, SC 29550 Phone: (843)383-8090 Fax:(843)383-8048 e-mail: fswitzer@pascal.coker.edu http://www.coker.edu/chemistry "Everything is easy once you know how" Paul Traficante ==================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:52:57 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mary Ann wrote: Help=21 Has today=27s regulatory environment made everyone afraid of = their own shadow. Sadly, some common lab solvents were first identified = as suspect carcinogens from reports of early industrial exposures. It was = written by Paracelsus, who was born the year after Columbus set sail = =22All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The = right dose differentiates a poison from a remedy=22. Many mistakes were = made early on in the development of chemistry. But by the 40=27s thru = 60=27s most all academic labs had at least 2 fume hoods. Most chemists = lived to as ripe and healthy an old age as the general population. Now we = are using semi-micro amounts, have a fume hood for every 2 students, = MSDS=27s available, and the kids, and even many of their teachers are = scared of any and all chemicals. The MISS USE of chemicals is dangerous. = Prudent use of necessary amounts of CCl4 or CH2Cl2 with appropriate = tested ventilation, and other controls, as laid out in the CHP, should not = cause a problem. Consider the very potent carcinogen, tobacco smoke: do = you suggest that the smoking of 1 cigarette, or even 1 pack, will lead a = given person, or even 1 of a group of 1000, to cancer 30 years down the = line? On the other hand, do you suppose that spilling and thence = splashing some concentrated NaOH, while not wearing safety goggles, will = almost guarantee painful eye damage, and possible blindness. =20 It was written by Paracelsus, who was born the year after Columbus set = sail =22All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. = The right dose differentiates a poison from a remedy=22. Consider some = examples: aspirin, alcohol, selenium, Vit. A. Consider the expertise of the user. Would you let a three year old help = himself to the children=27s tylenol or his bottle of chewable One-a Days? = Probably not. If we are talking inexperienced students we must weigh the = risk vs benefit very closely when teaching chemistry and utilizing = carcinogens or mutigens. If we are talking a research lab or industry = then proper safe guards and regulations exists so the stuff can be worked = with in a safe manner by those with more training and expertise. You can = not hold these situations to the same risk/benefit standard. We must use = our analytical training to evaluate situations on an individual basis and = not make sweeping generalities. Gather the facts and make an educated = decision for each hazardous situation as they come up. My humble opinion, Janeen. *********************** Janeen Lapierre, Lab Coordinator*CHO University of New England*College of Osteopathic Medicine 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 207*283*0170 JLaPierre=40mailbox.une.edu ********************* All opinions expressed are not those of UNE. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:38:57 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Frank l. Switzer" Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:30 AM 9/30/98 -0500, you wrote: >I doubt seriously that at a Children's Museum they are doing >radical bromonations. In an organic lab, CCl4 may be the >most appropriate thing to have around. But, if memory serves >me correctly, she isn't. Given the price of CCl4 now, the >problems associated with not only the Lab standard, but also with >Hazwaste and CAA regs, why not go to something else? > While we were on the the subject of CCl4, I was wondering if anyone had any ideas regarding my specific CCl4 uses. Thanks Frank Switzer ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Frank L. Switzer, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Chemistry Coker College 300 East College Ave. Hartsville, SC 29550 Phone: (843)383-8090 Fax:(843)383-8048 e-mail: fswitzer@pascal.coker.edu http://www.coker.edu/chemistry "Everything is easy once you know how" Paul Traficante ==================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:44:59 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Julie O'Brien Subject: Carbon Tetrachloride Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've enjoyed the lively discussion my question posed. I guess I should have explained my specific situation more. My signature has an address for my workplace and an address for a children's museum. The carbon tetrachloride is not for the children's museum. I work in an industrial R&D lab. Recently, one of our PhD chemists ordered some carbon tetrachloride for an experiment. The PEL for carbon tetrachloride is 10ppm and the ceiling limit is 25 ppm, which I think is low enough for monitoring, regardless of the use. Otherwise, how do we know what the person is being exposed to? I will be suggesting that the chemist find an alternative solvent, particularly if he plans to scale this to a production process. But, I am not in a position of authority to make him change solvents. Do you have a rule of thumb that you follow for monitoring based upon the PEL? Specifically, I would like examples from industries, since employees at industries have considerably more experience handling chemicals (usually) than students do. Thanks again for your help. Julie O'Brien Chemist PCR, Inc. PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 ext. 232 Fax 352-373-7503 afn35210@afn.org Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville PO Box 5951 Gainesville, FL 32627 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:22:01 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ray Campbell Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride In-Reply-To: <199809301444.KAA21529@freenet5.afn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I suggest that you ask the chemist to calculate the cost of his product(if he does intend to make one) using the Carbon Tet and using any other viable safer alternative. Remind him that if he spends him time making a product that cannot be manufactured that he is wasting the company's time and money. Monitor at 5-10 % of the PEL. Remind him about using PPE!! PS Also reimnd him to include the cost of separating the waste from others and the cost of disposal. Ray Campbell REA CCHO 310-257-1080 At 10:44 AM 9/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >I've enjoyed the lively discussion my question posed. I guess I should have >explained my specific situation more. My signature has an address for my >workplace and an address for a children's museum. The carbon tetrachloride >is not for the children's museum. I work in an industrial R&D lab. >Recently, one of our PhD chemists ordered some carbon tetrachloride for an >experiment. The PEL for carbon tetrachloride is 10ppm and the ceiling >limit is 25 ppm, which I think is low enough for monitoring, regardless of >the use. Otherwise, how do we know what the person is being exposed to? I >will be suggesting that the chemist find an alternative solvent, >particularly if he plans to scale this to a production process. But, I am >not in a position of authority to make him change solvents. > >Do you have a rule of thumb that you follow for monitoring based upon the >PEL? Specifically, I would like examples from industries, since employees >at industries have considerably more experience handling chemicals (usually) >than students do. > >Thanks again for your help. > >Julie O'Brien > > > >Chemist >PCR, Inc. >PO Box 1466 >Gainesville, FL 32602 >352-376-8246 ext. 232 >Fax 352-373-7503 >afn35210@afn.org > >Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer >EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville >PO Box 5951 >Gainesville, FL 32627 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:51:32 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Gillian Gardner Subject: Storing dry ice In-Reply-To: <199809291653.MAA17918@freenet5.afn.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Currently when we get large deliveries of dry ice, we store it in styrofoam chests. 200 lbs of dry ice will completely disappear in two weeks. I'm wondering if it's safe to store it in a regular chest freezer. I've looked at Ultra-Lows but they're very expensive. Do I need to worry about the CO2(g) if I store in a -20 freezer? Does anyone know how long dry ice will keep in a -20 (if it is safe)? Thanks for your help! Gillian Gardner Chemistry Lab Director/Instructor Lewis & Clark College ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:53:08 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19980930102030.2f6fbbde@sun1.ksu.edu.sa> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:28 AM 9/30/98 -0300, you wrote: >Mary Ann wrote: > >>"All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The >right dose differentiates a poison from a remedy". >>The MISS USE of chemicals is dangerous. > >Who would gauarantee the proper use of the right dose everywhere and >at any time? > >>Many mistakes were made early on in the development of chemistry. > >Mistakes can be made also now and at any other time. > > >>Consider the very potent carcinogen, tobacco smoke: do you suggest that >the smoking of 1 cigarette, or even 1 pack, will lead a given person, or >even 1 of a group of 1000, to cancer 30 years down the line? On the other >hand, do you suppose that spilling and thence splashing some concentrated >NaOH, while not wearing safety goggles, will almost guarantee painful eye >damage, and possible blindness. > >This argument can hold for any chemical! > >Best regards. >Aziz. > Indeed, Aziz, that argument will hold for almost any chemical. Yes, mistakes are made, but less likely due to lack of data. Witness the dimethyl mercury death last year. Enough information to suggest both permeabilty of surgical latex gloves to organometalics, and potential for extreme toxicity of this substance was available in publications (e.g. Chemical Health & Safety), was available. No one will guarantee the right dose, but everyday experience shows that most of us can work within the "safe dose", which is often a wide range. Witness aspirin at various doses, from toxic dose for children, to headache remedy and arthritis treatment to heart attack preventative. Or good old ethanol, pleasant beverage with dinner, to inappropriate social drunkeness, to a life altering problem. Going back to a benzene example. A friend died of complicati;ons from benzene over use. He was an artist, and spent a couple of years working on some silkscreens where he spray benzene a lot. THAT was inappropriate use. Mary Ann ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:11:42 -0400 Reply-To: "Dr. Henry" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Henry Boyter Jr." Subject: Re: Storing dry ice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ask the company you get the dry ice from for recommendations. There are simple chests out there for this purpose. They sort of look like old ice cream boxes. The key is they vent, but have a really good insulation capacity. Dr. Henry Boyter, Jr. Ph.D. Chemist The opinions of Dr. Boyter are provided for informational purposes only and should not be used as advice. No warranty or expression of professionalism is implied. *************** -----Original Message----- From: Gillian Gardner To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 11:59 AM Subject: Storing dry ice Currently when we get large deliveries of dry ice, we store it in styrofoam chests. 200 lbs of dry ice will completely disappear in two weeks. I'm wondering if it's safe to store it in a regular chest freezer. I've looked at Ultra-Lows but they're very expensive. Do I need to worry about the CO2(g) if I store in a -20 freezer? Does anyone know how long dry ice will keep in a -20 (if it is safe)? Thanks for your help! Gillian Gardner Chemistry Lab Director/Instructor Lewis & Clark College ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:00:05 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob Burns Subject: Re: Storing dry ice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It nees to be vented so CO2 will not build up pressure. We use commercial dry ice chests- they seems to keep it for a long time. the big advantage of commercial equipment is it is designed for the service, rather than just used. "Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D RUETGERS Organics Corporation 201 Struble Road State College, PA 16801 phone 814-231-9214 fax 814-238-1567 email rburns@bigfoot.com -----Original Message----- From: Gillian Gardner To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 11:55 Subject: Storing dry ice >Currently when we get large deliveries of dry ice, we store it in >styrofoam chests. 200 lbs of dry ice will completely disappear in two >weeks. I'm wondering if it's safe to store it in a regular chest freezer. >I've looked at Ultra-Lows but they're very expensive. Do I need to worry >about the CO2(g) if I store in a -20 freezer? Does anyone know how long >dry ice will keep in a -20 (if it is safe)? > >Thanks for your help! > >Gillian Gardner >Chemistry Lab Director/Instructor >Lewis & Clark College > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:49:20 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "O'Keeffe, Barbara" Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sorry, that I misunderstood where the CCl4 was being used. A couple of things to keep in mind - - is the reaction being done in a hood? If not, why not. That is one of the easiest ways to make sure that the PELs will not be exceeded. And it would still be a good idea to monitor, especially during the first couple of experimental runs. All of this should already be addressed in your CHP - - if it isn't, it is probably time to have the CHP updated. Second, what volumes are going to be used. Again, make sure that that amount used will not impact your facilities Hazwaste and CAA permits. Barb Barbara O'Keeffe Environmental Services Group, Advancia Corporation Email: okeeffeb@advancia.com Voice: 580-355-1471 Fax: 580-357-9360 211 SW "A" Avenue, Lawton, OK 73501 -----Original Message----- From: Julie O'Brien [SMTP:afn35210@AFN.ORG] Sent: September 30, 1998 09:45 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Carbon Tetrachloride I've enjoyed the lively discussion my question posed. I guess I should have explained my specific situation more. My signature has an address for my workplace and an address for a children's museum. The carbon tetrachloride is not for the children's museum. I work in an industrial R&D lab. Recently, one of our PhD chemists ordered some carbon tetrachloride for an experiment. The PEL for carbon tetrachloride is 10ppm and the ceiling limit is 25 ppm, which I think is low enough for monitoring, regardless of the use. Otherwise, how do we know what the person is being exposed to? I will be suggesting that the chemist find an alternative solvent, particularly if he plans to scale this to a production process. But, I am not in a position of authority to make him change solvents. Do you have a rule of thumb that you follow for monitoring based upon the PEL? Specifically, I would like examples from industries, since employees at industries have considerably more experience handling chemicals (usually) than students do. Thanks again for your help. Julie O'Brien Chemist PCR, Inc. PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 ext. 232 Fax 352-373-7503 afn35210@afn.org Education/Exhibits Committee Volunteer EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville PO Box 5951 Gainesville, FL 32627 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:05:29 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Julie O'Brien Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Barbara- What is CAA? Julie O'Brien > >Second, what volumes are going to be used. Again, make sure that that >amount used will not impact your facilities Hazwaste and CAA permits. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:20:14 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Storing dry ice -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Why don't you get your own dry ice maker from Fisher. It runs about $300.00. Then you can make it as needed. That's what we do now. We had to travel 30 minutes to pick up a couple pounds. Making the stuff is really easy. For what its worth, Janeen. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:27:15 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Wesley Kolar Subject: Re: Carbon Tetrachloride In-Reply-To: <199809301805.OAA07775@freenet5.afn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" CAA = Clean Air Act (enacted in 1990) At 02:05 PM 9/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >Barbara- > >What is CAA? > >Julie O'Brien >> >>Second, what volumes are going to be used. Again, make sure that that >>amount used will not impact your facilities Hazwaste and CAA permits. >> > Wes Kolar ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:23:00 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Tayman, Tammy" Subject: Re: Storing dry ice -Reply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Be careful about the dry ice makers. Frequently they put out "soft" dry ice, with a lot of water intercollated into it. If you are using dry ice as a reagent for something like the grignard experiment, this stuff won't work. You would need the "hard" dry ice, with very little, if any, water content. It took a bit of figuring out for us to realize that this was the problem when we tried making our own dry ice. The cost is also a bit high, about $60.00 for a tank that made three or four 1 lb blocks vs $5.00 for 5 lbs at the local ice store. For what it's worth... Tammy Tayman ---------- From: Janeen LaPierre To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Storing dry ice -Reply Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 3:20PM Why don't you get your own dry ice maker from Fisher. It runs about $300.00. Then you can make it as needed. That's what we do now. We had to travel 30 minutes to pick up a couple pounds. Making the stuff is really easy. For what its worth, Janeen. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:36:49 -0000 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "L. James Stock III" <34EMQ6K@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Subject: Re: Storing dry ice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Here at Central Michigan University we receive 240 pounds of Dry Ice every two weeks from Hav-A-Bar Ice Cream Co. I have been here for twenty years and the greatest purchase I made when we moved into our new 25 million dollar DOW Science Complex was to buy an ultra-low temperature freezer to store my dry ice. Sure it cost 5,000 but I never ever run out. I set the freezer to -82 C. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:44:16 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Re: Storing dry ice -Reply -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain As I said earlier, we get about 12 blocks to a cylinder. Perhaps there are various apparatus out there for this job. We do use this stuff in organic lab without problems for the grignard and the like. For what its worth, Janeen. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:09:40 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Dorian McMillan Subject: Re: Storing dry ice In-Reply-To: <199809302035.PAA03074@saluki-mail.siu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've heard that it is a bad idea to store dry ice in ultracolds (or other freezers for that matter) because the CO2 breaks down the seals. Not true? At 04:36 PM 9/30/98 +0000, you wrote: >Here at Central Michigan University we receive 240 pounds of Dry Ice >every two weeks from Hav-A-Bar Ice Cream Co. I have been here for twenty >years and the greatest purchase I made when we moved into our new 25 >million dollar DOW Science Complex was to buy an ultra-low temperature >freezer to store my dry ice. Sure it cost 5,000 but I never ever run out. >I set the freezer to -82 C. > *************************************************************** Dorian R McMillan MCMILLAND@COFC.EDU Laboratory Manager Office:(843) 953-4847 College of Charleston Cell:(843) 209-7394 Department of Biology 66 George Street Charleston, SC 29424 *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:40:50 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: examples of flammable class chemicals needed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-24 17:23:01 EDT, you write: << I am looking for a list of common chemicals grouped by flammable class. If anyone has such a list or can point me to one of the web I would be most thankful. >> JAK: One of my favorites is published by the Justrite Company and available for free on request... "How to Handle Flammable Liquids Safely". ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, President The Laboratory Safety Workshop 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com Safety in Science Education The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar schedule, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:40:57 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Thomas J. Shelley" Subject: Re: examples of flammable class chemicals needed In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Colleagues--I could not find a list of flammable solvents by NFPA class, so I made my own, appended below. This is based on NFPA 325M--1991. Note that such a table, for whatever reasons, does not exist in the official NFPA tables themselves, which I find kind of odd. Please feel free to use as you see fit. Tom GenevaNFPA Classification of =46lammable Liquids Geneva1,1-Di= chloroethane Class IB 1,1-Dimethyl hydrazine Class IB 2-Hexanone Class IC 2-Mercaptoethanol Class IIIA 2-Pentanone Class IB Acetaldehyde Class IA Acetic Acid, Glacial Class II Acetic Anhydride Class II Acetone Class IB Acetyl Chloride Class IB Acrolein Class IB Acrylonitrile Class IB Allyl Alcohol Class IB Allyl Chloride Class IB Aniline Class IIIA Benzene Class IB Benzyl Alcohol Class IIIB Butane Class IA Butyl Acetate Class IB Butyl Alcohol Class IC Butyl Amine Class IB Butyl Mercaptan Class IB Carbon Disulfide Class IB Chlorobenzene Class IC Cyclohexane Class IB Cyclopentane Class IB Denatured Alcohol Class IB Diacetone Alcohol Class IIIA Dibutyl Ether Class IC Dichlorosilane Class IA Diethyl Amine Class IB Diethyl Ketone Class IB Dimethyl Sulfate Class IIIA Dimethyl Sulfide Class IA Dimethyl Sulfoxide Class IB Ethyl Acetate Class IB Ethyl Alcohol Class IB Ethyl Alcohol and Water, 30-50% Class IC Ethyl Alcohol and Water, 60-96% Class IB =20 Ethyl Amine Class IA =20 =20 Ethyl Bromide Class IB Ethyl Chloride Class IA Ethyl Ether Class IA Ethyl Formate Class IB =20 Ethylene Diamine Class IC Ethylene Dichoride Class IB Ethylene Glycol Class IIIB Ethylene Oxide Class IA =46ormaldehyde Class IIIA =46ormamide Class IIIB =46ormic Acid Class IIIA =46uran Class IA Gasoline Class IA (B.P. <<100 F) or IB (B.P. >100 F) Heptane Class IB Hexane Class IB =20 Iron Carbonyl Class IB =20 Isoamyl Acetate Class IC Isoamyl Alcohol Class II Isobutyl Alcohol Class IC Isoprene Class IA Isopropyl Alcohol Class IB Isopropyl Ether Class IB Isopropylamine Class IA Mesityl Oxide Class IC Methacrylonitrile Class IB Methyl Acetate Class IB Methyl Alcohol Class IB Methyl Carbonate Class IB Methyl Cellosolve Acetate Class II Methyl Chloride Class IA Methyl Ethyl Ether Class IA Methyl Ethyl Ketone Class IB Methyl Isobutyl Ketone Class IC Methyl Isocyanate Class IB Methyl Methylacrylate Class IB Mineral Spirits Class II Morpholine Class IC n-Amyl Acetate Class IC Naphtha V.M. &P., 50O Flash Class IB Naphtha V.M. &P., High Flash Class IC Naphtha V.M. &P., Regular Class IB Nickel Carbonyl Class IB =20 Nitrobenzene Class IIIA Nonane Class IC o-Toluidine Class IIIA o-Xylene Class IC Octane Class IB p-Ansidine Class IC p-Dioxane Class IB p-Toluidine Class IIIA p-Xylene Class IC Pentane Class IA Petroleum Ether Class IA (B.P. 95~99 F) or IB (100~140 F)=20 Phenol Class IIIA Propylene Oxide Class IA Propionic Acid Class II Propyl Alcohol Class IC Pyridine Class IB sec-Amyl Acetate Class IB sec-Amyl Alcohol Class IC sec-Butyl Acetate Class IB sec-Butyl Alcohol Class IC Styrene Class IC tert-Butyl Alcohol Class IB Tetrahydrofuran Class IB Thiophene Class IB Toluene Class IB Triamylamine Class IIIB Triethylamine Class IB Turpentine Class IC Vinyl Acetate Class IB Vinyl Chloride Class IA Vinylidene Chloride Class IA Xylene Class IC ********************************************************** Tom Shelley, Chemical Hygiene Officer, Cornell University, Department of Environmental Health and Safety, 125 Humphreys Service Building,=20 Ithaca, NY 14853. (607) 255-4288 tjs1@cornell.edu =20 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ DISCLAIMER @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ The comments and views expressed in this communication are strictly my own and=20 are not to be construed to officially represent those of my peers, supervisors or=20 Cornell University.