LABSAFETY-L Archive 9808 August 1998

Use your browser's Find command to search for a word or phrase
Please contact swihart@purdue.edu if you know of a way to sort the archives
Gibberish passages are attachments, they do not archive well!
HTML tags in list messages also do not always archive well.
A double line as immediately below indicates the beginning of a new message
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:23:37 +1200
From: John Downey <John.Downey@WAITAKERE.GOVT.NZ>
Subject: Re: Internet Master's Program
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Also try contacting University of Central Queensland, Rockhampton, in
Australia. They go right through to Doctorate level in all the major
science areas. I did my Bachelor's degree through them, graduating in 1993,
and seriously considered Masters, but flagged it in the end. UCQ is a very
practical-oriented university, and a great bunch to work with. Certainly
while I was there, a prerequisite for all staff was that they must have done
at least part of a degree by distance education.
I am not sure if they have the courses on internet yet, but if not, I am
sure they would accept email - it's nearly the same, isn't it.
Regards
John Downey
-----Original Message-----
From: Nadine Grady, CIH [SMTP:ngrady@WHITWORTH.EDU]
Sent: Friday, 31 July 1998 04:01
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: Internet Master's Program
>I'm curious if anyone out there knows whether or not there's an
internet
>master's program in analytical chemistry. The question is for a
friend of
>mine who lives and works in a very remote part of Nevada and is not
able to
>attend a traditional program.
I don't know about Internet-based courses, but on page 52 of the
current
(7/20/98) issue of Chemical & Engineering News there's an article
about
Lehigh University's new distance learning program for master's
degrees in
polymer science and engineering. Details are in the article; or
contact
Peg Kercsmar at (610)758-5794 (Email: mak5@lehigh.edu). They're in
Bethlehem, PA (Eastern time).
Nadine B. Grady, MS, RS, CIH
Chemical Hygiene Officer
Whitworth College
300 W. Hawthorne Rd.
Spokane, WA 99251-3903
phone (509) 777-4510
fax (509) 777-3221
ngrady@whitworth.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 07:46:10 EDT
From: Martin Besant <MBesant@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 30 Jul 1998 to 31 Jul 1998
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
There's seems to something of an oxymoronic nature to send an e-mail
concerning the vulnerability of e-mail and to include it as a download, the
most common way of spreading a virus. If I hadn't seen on CNN that Mac users
are immune to this form of transmission, I would have been very wary of
opening this post
marty Besant
West Seneca East Sr HS
A suburb of Buffalo NY
Someday I'll think of one of those really witty closings
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:39:32 -0400
From: Fran Martin <fmartin@CCSINC.COM>
Subject: Updated 1998 CFRs on CD-ROM
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
U.S. Code of Federal Regulations Titles 1 - 24 have been completely updated
to 1998 U.S. GPO revision levels and are available on CD-ROM, along with
Titles 25 - 50 at 1997 revision levels.
Major updated Titles include:
Title 7 Agriculture
Title 10 Energy
Title 12 Banks and Banking
Title 14 Aeronautics and Space, and
Title 21 Food and Drugs
See http://www.env-sol.com/solutions/CFR.HTML for further details.
Fran Martin
FM Research & Consulting
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:28:47 -0600
From: "Helen B. Gerhard" <hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM>
Subject: NFPA Style Rating for 2,4-DinitroPhenyl Hydrazine
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi All:
2,4-DinitroPhenyl Hydrazine has not been rated by the NFPA. However, in
determining the correct NFPA signage for the lab in which the material
resides, I'm needing to give it some Health/Flammability/Reactivity ratings.
Health I am figuring a 1 as the MSDS information does not indicate major
health difficulties.
Flammability is the most specific so I have given it a 2 (Flash points
between 100 Degree F and 200 Degree F)
The problem I am having is with Reactivity. My QA Chemist tells me the
material is extremely explosive...he said that a building was blown up with
1 gram of the material. But when I go to the MSDS, I am told that the
material is stable at room temperature and pressure. Also, the MSDS does
not show any major explosive hazards. My QA chemist thinks we should rate
the material as a 4 ("Materials that are readily able to detonate, or are of
explosive decomposition or reactive at normal temperatures"). Based on the
MSDS, I believe it is a 1 (Normally stable but can become unstable at
elevated temperatures, pressures, or reactive with water")
What say you guys?
Thanks!
Helen
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:03:55 -0400
From: Dan Hurley <dhurley@WFUBMC.EDU>
Subject: Re: NFPA Style Rating for 2,4-DinitroPhenyl Hydrazine
In-Reply-To: <A01B9B2609E4D111BC9800C0F03095FA0AA937@MLGC-COS-NT01>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I would check the information on the MSDS against a standard reference such
as SAX and others. MSDS's do not always give accurate or correct
information. SAX should give you some reliable data on which to base your
assessment.
At 10:28 AM 8/4/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi All:
>2,4-DinitroPhenyl Hydrazine has not been rated by the NFPA. However, in
>determining the correct NFPA signage for the lab in which the material
>resides, I'm needing to give it some Health/Flammability/Reactivity ratings.
>Health I am figuring a 1 as the MSDS information does not indicate major
>health difficulties.
>Flammability is the most specific so I have given it a 2 (Flash points
>between 100 Degree F and 200 Degree F)
>The problem I am having is with Reactivity. My QA Chemist tells me the
>material is extremely explosive...he said that a building was blown up with
>1 gram of the material. But when I go to the MSDS, I am told that the
>material is stable at room temperature and pressure. Also, the MSDS does
>not show any major explosive hazards. My QA chemist thinks we should rate
>the material as a 4 ("Materials that are readily able to detonate, or are of
>explosive decomposition or reactive at normal temperatures"). Based on the
>MSDS, I believe it is a 1 (Normally stable but can become unstable at
>elevated temperatures, pressures, or reactive with water")
>What say you guys?
>Thanks!
>Helen
>
Daniel J. Hurley, CIH
Sr. Industrial Hygienist
Wake Forest University School of Medicine
910-777-3078
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:27:55 -0400
From: Matthew Navea <mnavea@COLORCON.COM>
Subject: Re: NFPA Style Rating for 2,4-DinitroPhenyl Hydrazine
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
We have 2,4 Dinitro Phenyl Hydrazine NFPA rated as 2,1,3. (May ignite or
explode if exposed to shock, friction, heating. Flammable Solid.
Explosive if dry. Dust/air mixtures may ignite or explode.)
If you would like a copy of an MSDS let me know.
Matt Navea
Safety Coordinator
COLORCON
mnavea@colorcon.com
____________________________________________________________________
Hi All:
2,4-DinitroPhenyl Hydrazine has not been rated by the NFPA. However, in
determining the correct NFPA signage for the lab in which the material
resides, I'm needing to give it some Health/Flammability/Reactivity
ratings.
Health I am figuring a 1 as the MSDS information does not indicate major
health difficulties.
Flammability is the most specific so I have given it a 2 (Flash points
between 100 Degree F and 200 Degree F)
The problem I am having is with Reactivity. My QA Chemist tells me the
material is extremely explosive...he said that a building was blown up with
1 gram of the material. But when I go to the MSDS, I am told that the
material is stable at room temperature and pressure. Also, the MSDS does
not show any major explosive hazards. My QA chemist thinks we should rate
the material as a 4 ("Materials that are readily able to detonate, or are
of
explosive decomposition or reactive at normal temperatures"). Based on the
MSDS, I believe it is a 1 (Normally stable but can become unstable at
elevated temperatures, pressures, or reactive with water")
What say you guys?
Thanks!
Helen
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:35:33 -0700
From: "Fleming, Douglas" <Douglas.Fleming@ALLIEDSIGNAL.COM>
Subject: Re: NFPA Style Rating for 2,4-DinitroPhenyl Hydrazine
The following information was retrieved from
http://chemfinder.camsoft.com/ .
This is an EXCELLENT source of chemical information.
p.s. note the information on reactivity/explosive characteristics in
this MSDS!
check it out!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
MSDS for 2,4-DINITROPHENYLHYDRAZINE Page 1
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
1 - PRODUCT IDENTIFICATION
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
PRODUCT NAME: 2,4-DINITROPHENYLHYDRAZINE
FORMULA: (NO2)2C6H3NHNH2
FORMULA WT: 198.14
CAS NO.: 00119-26-6
NIOSH/RTECS NO.: MV3325000
PRODUCT CODES: K408
EFFECTIVE: 03/05/87
REVISION #02
PRECAUTIONARY LABELLING
BAKER SAF-T-DATA(TM) SYSTEM
HEALTH - 1 SLIGHT
FLAMMABILITY - 1 SLIGHT
REACTIVITY - 2 MODERATE
CONTACT - 2 MODERATE
HAZARD RATINGS ARE 0 TO 4 (0 = NO HAZARD; 4 = EXTREME HAZARD).
LABORATORY PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT
SAFETY GLASSES; LAB COAT
PRECAUTIONARY LABEL STATEMENTS
WARNING
CAUSES IRRITATION
EXPLOSVE WHEN DRY
MAY BE HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED
KEEP AWAY FROM HEAT, SPARKS, FLAME. DO NOT GET IN EYES, ON SKIN, ON
CLOTHING.
DO NOT BREATHE DUST. KEEP IN TIGHTLY CLOSED CONTAINER. USE WITH
ADEQUATE
VENTILATION. WASH THOROUGHLY AFTER HANDLING. THIS MATERIAL CONTAINS AT
LEAST 10% WATER. IF WATER EVAPORATES BELOW 10%,
2,4-DINITROPHENYLHYDRAZINE
BECOMES AN EXPLOSIVE. IN CASE OF FIRE, SOAK WITH WATER. IN CASE OF
SPILL, SWEEP UP AND CAREFULLY REMOVE. FLUSH SPILL AREA WITH WATER.
SAF-T-DATA(TM) STORAGE COLOR CODE: ORANGE (GENERAL STORAGE)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
2 - HAZARDOUS COMPONENTS
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
COMPONENT % CAS
NO.
2,4-DINITROPHENYLHYDRAZINE 85-90
119-26-6
WATER 10-15
7732-18-5
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
3 - PHYSICAL DATA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
BOILING POINT: N/A VAPOR PRESSURE(MM HG): N/A
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
MSDS for 2,4-DINITROPHENYLHYDRAZINE Page 2
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
MELTING POINT: 194 C ( 381 F) VAPOR DENSITY(AIR=1): N/A
SPECIFIC GRAVITY: N/A EVAPORATION RATE: N/A
(H2O=1) (BUTYL ACETATE=1)
SOLUBILITY(H2O): SLIGHT (0.1 TO 1 %) % VOLATILES BY
VOLUME: 0
APPEARANCE & ODOR: RED, CRYSTALLINE POWDER
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
4 - FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARD DATA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
FLASH POINT (CLOSED CUP 210 C ( 410 F)
FLAMMABLE LIMITS: UPPER - N/A % LOWER - N/A %
FIRE EXTINGUISHING MEDIA
USE WATER SPRAY.
SPECIAL FIRE-FIGHTING PROCEDURES
FIREFIGHTERS SHOULD WEAR PROPER PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT AND
SELF-CONTAINED
BREATHING APPARATUS WITH FULL FACEPIECE OPERATED IN POSITIVE PRESSURE
MODE.
MOVE CONTAINERS FROM FIRE AREA IF IT CAN BE DONE WITHOUT RISK. USE
WATER
TO KEEP FIRE-EXPOSED CONTAINERS COOL.
FLOOD WITH WATER, DO NOT SPLATTER OR SPLASH THIS MATERIAL.
UNUSUAL FIRE & EXPLOSION HAZARDS
CAN REACT VIOLENTLY WITH SHOCK, FRICTION OR HEAT.
TOXIC GASES PRODUCED
NITROGEN OXIDES, CARBON MONOXIDE, CARBON DIOXIDE
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
5 - HEALTH HAZARD DATA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
TOXICITY: LD50 (ORAL-RAT)(MG/KG) - 654
CARCINOGENICITY: NTP: NO IARC: NO Z LIST: NO OSHA REG: NO
EFFECTS OF OVEREXPOSURE
CONTACT CAN CAUSE EYE IRRITATION.
PROLONGED CONTACT MAY CAUSE SKIN SENSITIZATION.
INGESTION MAY BE HARMFUL.
CHRONIC EFFECTS OF OVEREXPOSURE MAY DAMAGE BLOOD.
TARGET ORGANS
EYES, BLOOD
MEDICAL CONDITIONS GENERALLY AGGRAVATED BY EXPOSURE
NONE IDENTIFIED
ROUTES OF ENTRY
SKIN CONTACT, EYE CONTACT, INGESTION
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
MSDS for 2,4-DINITROPHENYLHYDRAZINE Page 3
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
EMERGENCY AND FIRST AID PROCEDURES
CALL A PHYSICIAN.
IF SWALLOWED, IF CONSCIOUS, IMMEDIATELY INDUCE VOMITING.
IF INHALED, REMOVE TO FRESH AIR. IF NOT BREATHING, GIVE ARTIFICIAL
RESPIRATION. IF BREATHING IS DIFFICULT, GIVE OXYGEN.
IN CASE OF CONTACT, IMMEDIATELY FLUSH EYES WITH PLENTY OF WATER FOR AT
LEAST 15 MINUTES. FLUSH SKIN WITH WATER.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
6 - REACTIVITY DATA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
STABILITY: UNSTABLE HAZARDOUS POLYMERIZATION: WILL NOT
OCCUR
CONDITIONS TO AVOID: HEAT, FLAME, OTHER SOURCES OF IGNITION, SHOCK
INCOMPATIBLES: STRONG OXIDIZING AGENTS
DECOMPOSITION PRODUCTS: OXIDES OF NITROGEN, CARBON MONOXIDE, CARBON
DIOXIDE
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
7 - SPILL AND DISPOSAL PROCEDURES
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
STEPS TO BE TAKEN IN THE EVENT OF A SPILL OR DISCHARGE
WEAR SUITABLE PROTECTIVE CLOTHING. SHUT OFF IGNITION SOURCES; NO
FLARES,
SMOKING, OR FLAMES IN AREA.
MOISTEN MATERIAL WITH WATER AND PLACE IT INTO LOOSELY-COVERED
PLASTIC OR FIBERBOARD CONTAINERS FOR LATER DISPOSAL.
DISPOSAL PROCEDURE
DISPOSE IN ACCORDANCE WITH ALL APPLICABLE FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL
ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS.
EPA HAZARDOUS WASTE NUMBER: D001, D003 (IGNITABLE, REACTIVE
WASTE)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
8 - PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
VENTILATION: USE ADEQUATE GENERAL OR LOCAL EXHAUST
VENTILATION
TO KEEP FUME OR DUST LEVELS AS LOW AS POSSIBLE.
RESPIRATORY PROTECTION: NONE REQUIRED WHERE ADEQUATE VENTILATION
CONDITIONS EXIST. IF AIRBORNE CONCENTRATION IS
HIGH, USE AN APPROPRIATE RESPIRATOR OR DUST
MASK.
EYE/SKIN PROTECTION: SAFETY GLASSES WITH SIDESHIELDS, RUBBER GLOVES
ARE
RECOMMENDED.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
9 - STORAGE AND HANDLING PRECAUTIONS
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
SAF-T-DATA(TM) STORAGE COLOR CODE: ORANGE (GENERAL STORAGE)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
MSDS for 2,4-DINITROPHENYLHYDRAZINE Page 4
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
SPECIAL PRECAUTIONS
KEEP CONTAINER TIGHTLY CLOSED. STORE IN COOL, DRY, WELL-VENTILATED
AREA
AWAY FROM HEAT, SPARKS, OR FLAME.
THIS PRODUCT CONTAINS AT LEAST 10% WATER - IF THE WATER CONTENT
DECREASES
BELOW THIS LEVEL, IT BECOMES AN EXPLOSIVE. AVOID CONDITIONS THAT
COULD
LEAD TO LOSS OF WATER.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
10 - TRANSPORTATION DATA AND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
DOMESTIC (D.O.T.)
PROPER SHIPPING NAME DRUGS, N.O.S. (2,4-DINITROPHENYLHYDRAZINE)
HAZARD CLASS FLAMMABLE SOLID
UN/NA NA1325
LABELS FLAMMABLE SOLID
INTERNATIONAL (I.M.O.)
PROPER SHIPPING NAME SUBSTANCES, EXPLOSIVE, N.O.S.
HAZARD CLASS 1.1
UN/NA UN0357
LABELS EXPLOSIVE
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Helen B. Gerhard [SMTP:hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 1998 9:29 AM
>To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
>Subject: NFPA Style Rating for 2,4-DinitroPhenyl Hydrazine
>Hi All:
>2,4-DinitroPhenyl Hydrazine has not been rated by the NFPA. However, in
>determining the correct NFPA signage for the lab in which the material
>resides, I'm needing to give it some Health/Flammability/Reactivity ratings.
>Health I am figuring a 1 as the MSDS information does not indicate major
>health difficulties.
>Flammability is the most specific so I have given it a 2 (Flash points
>between 100 Degree F and 200 Degree F)
>The problem I am having is with Reactivity. My QA Chemist tells me the
>material is extremely explosive...he said that a building was blown up with
>1 gram of the material. But when I go to the MSDS, I am told that the
>material is stable at room temperature and pressure. Also, the MSDS does
>not show any major explosive hazards. My QA chemist thinks we should rate
>the material as a 4 ("Materials that are readily able to detonate, or are of
>explosive decomposition or reactive at normal temperatures"). Based on the
>MSDS, I believe it is a 1 (Normally stable but can become unstable at
>elevated temperatures, pressures, or reactive with water")
>What say you guys?
>Thanks!
>Helen
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:37:16 -0600
From: "Connie S. Pitman" <cpitman@BRAIN.UCCS.EDU>
Subject: Re: NFPA Style Rating for 2,4-DinitroPhenyl Hydrazine
In-Reply-To: <A01B9B2609E4D111BC9800C0F03095FA0AA937@MLGC-COS-NT01>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Helen, I believe the 2,4-Dinitrophenylhydrazine is only explosive if dry.
Most of the time it is shipped from the manufacturer with 30% water in it.
If allowed to dry out, it can become highly explosive. The older the
stock, the more likely that it could become dry and therefore dangerous.
On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Helen B. Gerhard wrote:
> Hi All:
> 2,4-DinitroPhenyl Hydrazine has not been rated by the NFPA. However, in
> determining the correct NFPA signage for the lab in which the material
> resides, I'm needing to give it some Health/Flammability/Reactivity ratings.
> Health I am figuring a 1 as the MSDS information does not indicate major
> health difficulties.
> Flammability is the most specific so I have given it a 2 (Flash points
> between 100 Degree F and 200 Degree F)
> The problem I am having is with Reactivity. My QA Chemist tells me the
> material is extremely explosive...he said that a building was blown up with
> 1 gram of the material. But when I go to the MSDS, I am told that the
> material is stable at room temperature and pressure. Also, the MSDS does
> not show any major explosive hazards. My QA chemist thinks we should rate
> the material as a 4 ("Materials that are readily able to detonate, or are of
> explosive decomposition or reactive at normal temperatures"). Based on the
> MSDS, I believe it is a 1 (Normally stable but can become unstable at
> elevated temperatures, pressures, or reactive with water")
> What say you guys?
> Thanks!
> Helen
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:42:06 -0500
From: Lenore Koliha <lkoliha@CREIGHTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: NFPA Style Rating for 2,4-DinitroPhenyl Hydrazine
Comments: To: "Helen B. Gerhard" <hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM>
In-Reply-To: <A01B9B2609E4D111BC9800C0F03095FA0AA937@MLGC-COS-NT01>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Mornin....
By our OHS system the rating should be: Health=2, Fire=1, and
Reactivity=3. Skin irritant, eye irritant, may explode if exposed to
shock, friction or heat. Flammable Solid. Explosive if dry.
Hope this helps.
Lenore
On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Helen B. Gerhard wrote:
> Hi All:
> 2,4-DinitroPhenyl Hydrazine has not been rated by the NFPA. However, in
> determining the correct NFPA signage for the lab in which the material
> resides, I'm needing to give it some Health/Flammability/Reactivity ratings.
> Health I am figuring a 1 as the MSDS information does not indicate major
> health difficulties.
> Flammability is the most specific so I have given it a 2 (Flash points
> between 100 Degree F and 200 Degree F)
> The problem I am having is with Reactivity. My QA Chemist tells me the
> material is extremely explosive...he said that a building was blown up with
> 1 gram of the material. But when I go to the MSDS, I am told that the
> material is stable at room temperature and pressure. Also, the MSDS does
> not show any major explosive hazards. My QA chemist thinks we should rate
> the material as a 4 ("Materials that are readily able to detonate, or are of
> explosive decomposition or reactive at normal temperatures"). Based on the
> MSDS, I believe it is a 1 (Normally stable but can become unstable at
> elevated temperatures, pressures, or reactive with water")
> What say you guys?
> Thanks!
> Helen
*****************************************************************
* *
* Lenore Koliha e-mail: lkoliha@creighton.edu *
* Chemical Specialist ph#: (402)546-6404 *
* Dept. EH&S fax: (402)546-6403 *
* Creighton U. *
* Jahn Bldg., Rm-110 *
* 2204 Burt St. *
* Omaha, NE 68178 *
*****************************************************************
The true measure of a man is not by the life he leads...
but by the memory he leaves behind.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:06:44 -0600
From: "Helen B. Gerhard" <hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM>
Subject: Re: NFPA Style Rating for 2,4-DinitroPhenyl Hydrazine
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Connie:
We do watch the material closely to make sure it doesn't dry out. Proper
storage is absolutely critical for any material. However, for the NFPA
rating, wouldn't the rating be based on materials with proper storage?
Thanks!
Helen
-----Original Message-----
From: Connie S. Pitman [SMTP:cpitman@BRAIN.UCCS.EDU]
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 1998 11:37 AM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: NFPA Style Rating for 2,4-DinitroPhenyl
Hydrazine
Helen, I believe the 2,4-Dinitrophenylhydrazine is only explosive if
dry.
Most of the time it is shipped from the manufacturer with 30% water
in it.
If allowed to dry out, it can become highly explosive. The older the
stock, the more likely that it could become dry and therefore
dangerous.
On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Helen B. Gerhard wrote:
> Hi All:
>
> 2,4-DinitroPhenyl Hydrazine has not been rated by the NFPA.
However, in
> determining the correct NFPA signage for the lab in which the
material
> resides, I'm needing to give it some
Health/Flammability/Reactivity ratings.
>
> Health I am figuring a 1 as the MSDS information does not indicate
major
> health difficulties.
> Flammability is the most specific so I have given it a 2 (Flash
points
> between 100 Degree F and 200 Degree F)
>
> The problem I am having is with Reactivity. My QA Chemist tells
me the
> material is extremely explosive...he said that a building was
blown up with
> 1 gram of the material. But when I go to the MSDS, I am told that
the
> material is stable at room temperature and pressure. Also, the
MSDS does
> not show any major explosive hazards. My QA chemist thinks we
should rate
> the material as a 4 ("Materials that are readily able to detonate,
or are of
> explosive decomposition or reactive at normal temperatures").
Based on the
> MSDS, I believe it is a 1 (Normally stable but can become unstable
at
> elevated temperatures, pressures, or reactive with water")
>
> What say you guys?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Helen
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:00:31 -0500
From: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: NFPA Style Rating for 2,4-DinitroPhenyl Hydrazine
In-Reply-To: <A01B9B2609E4D111BC9800C0F03095FA0AA937@MLGC-COS-NT01>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
A quick reminder to those using NFPA 704 ratings: the hazard ratings
assigned do NOT refer to materials sitting in a proper container under
ordinary conditions. Ratings indicate short-term, acute-exposure hazards
"under conditions of fire, spill, or similar emergencies."
I don't know if this also applies to the similar rating system used by
chemical manufacturers.
JNR
Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu
"The opinions of Dr. Rubin do not necessarily represent those of the
Canadian government, with whom he has no affiliation."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:50:43 -0600
Reply-To: sharpdc@mail.auburn.edu
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: D Sharpe <sharpdc@MAIL.AUBURN.EDU>
Organization: Auburn University
Subject: Re: NFPA Style Rating for 2,4-DinitroPhenyl Hydrazine
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------EDFE5F536272EE6AB84EF4BB"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------EDFE5F536272EE6AB84EF4BB
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
NFPA 704 will also help give guidance on classification of chemicals and
is very specific about how you rate them (i.e. 1-4)
--------------EDFE5F536272EE6AB84EF4BB
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for D Sharpe
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf"
begin: vcard
fn: D Sharpe
n: Sharpe;D
org: Auburn University
adr;dom: ;;313 Leach Science Building;Auburn;Al;36849;
email;internet: sharpdc@mail.auburn.edu
title: University Safety Officer
x-mozilla-cpt: ;0
x-mozilla-html: FALSE
version: 2.1
end: vcard
--------------EDFE5F536272EE6AB84EF4BB--
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 06:16:37 EDT
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: It's Never Happened Before
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Hi NACHO Members....
I'm wondering how many of you have had this experience.
After a close call or accident, one of the folks involved says
"That's never happened before!"
Lee Smith was Vice President for Business Affairs at UT Austin.
He told me about a conversation he had with the Austin Fire Chief
(who as you all know got to know UT Austin very well!).
The Chief said that every year for the past dozen years he has gone
to home fires where the home had burned to the ground. On each
such occasion, the homeowner has said: "This has never happened
before!"
Well, before it does happen, please tell a colleague about NACHO
and invide them to join our organization. Please put NACHO on
the agenda for your next staff meeting. If you would like me to
send you a document to use for a handout, I can do that too.
If you have an intranet, please share info about NACHO with them.
If you belong to other discussion lists, please spread the word.
Thanks... jim
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSI.
Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG
**********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:42:56 EDT
From: Marshall Huckaby <RVNLRRP@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: It's Never Happened Before
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
I need a little help. We are installing a pneumatic tube in our Medical Center
to send "stuff" from Lab to ER, etc. I am trying to get a policy written, but
I sure do not want to miss anything. If anyone has a policy they wouldn't
mind shareing, please e-mail me and I'll send my Fax number. Maybe I can
return the favor
Thanks.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:32:11 -0500
From: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: It's Never Happened Before
In-Reply-To: <94f2c200.35c9b2e1@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The only specifics I've seen for tubing biohazards in hospitals requires
secondary containment, as well as padding if the primary container is
glass. Have you checked with other hospitals in your area?
JNR
>I need a little help. We are installing a pneumatic tube in our Medical Center
>to send "stuff" from Lab to ER, etc. I am trying to get a policy written, but
>I sure do not want to miss anything. If anyone has a policy they wouldn't
>mind shareing, please e-mail me and I'll send my Fax number. Maybe I can
>return the favor
>Thanks.
Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu
"The opinions of Dr. Rubin do not necessarily represent those of the
Canadian government, with whom he has no affiliation."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:37:07 -0600
From: "Helen B. Gerhard" <hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM>
Subject: Re: It's Never Happened Before
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Jim:
Please send the information on how to join typed into an email message.
That way we can forward the information on to our colleagues without having
to look up the "Sign Up" information in our notes.
Thanks!
Helen
-----Original Message-----
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM [SMTP:Labsafe@AOL.COM]
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 1998 4:17 AM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: It's Never Happened Before
Hi NACHO Members....
I'm wondering how many of you have had this experience.
After a close call or accident, one of the folks involved says
"That's never happened before!"
Lee Smith was Vice President for Business Affairs at UT Austin.
He told me about a conversation he had with the Austin Fire Chief
(who as you all know got to know UT Austin very well!).
The Chief said that every year for the past dozen years he has gone
to home fires where the home had burned to the ground. On each
such occasion, the homeowner has said: "This has never happened
before!"
Well, before it does happen, please tell a colleague about NACHO
and invide them to join our organization. Please put NACHO on
the agenda for your next staff meeting. If you would like me to
send you a document to use for a handout, I can do that too.
If you have an intranet, please share info about NACHO with them.
If you belong to other discussion lists, please spread the word.
Thanks... jim
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List,
seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSI.
Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG
**********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 15:35:46 -0500
Reply-To: i_ahern@lr.net
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Ina J. Ahern" <i_ahern@LR.NET>
Subject: A 2nd Acid Spill in NH
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Seems we are having a few of these this summer!
According to The Citizen, a local paper out of Laconia, NH; "A chemical
spill early Tuesday afternoon at the Lakes Region Factory Stores outlet
center forced the evacuation of about half of the complex on busy Route
3. Four people were taken to area hospitals to be checked out for
respiratory problems, authorities reported."
The chemical was acetic acid which was spilled inside a van which was
making a delivery to Hair Excitement. The driver slammed on her brakes
and the container inside the van spilled according to the Fire Chief.
The chemical was supposed to be delivered to Polyclad Laminates in
Franklin. Acetic acid is a chemical used in photographic darkrooms as a
stop bath.
About 100 people were evacuated and the stores closed as a safety
precaution. Fire trucks were used to barricade entrances and the HazMat
Team from Concord was called it to contain the chemical and remove it
from the van. One of the major concerns was that there were other
chemicals inside the van. An estimated two to three gallons spilled. No
information was provided about the concentration of the acid.
Although I'm sure they were well away from the main area of the spill,
the photograph on the front page showed a man, identified either as a
fireman or member of the hazmat team in knee high rubber boots and
shorts! He was wheeling an empty dolly. In addition, his eyewear
appears to be sunglasses.
Ina Ahern
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 16:31:08 -0500
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: internet master's program
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Greetings:
Thanks to all of you who responded with information and advice about
options for distance learning and obtaining a master's degree outside of
the traditional program. My friend for whom I asked the question was quite
thrilled with the information and input.
If anyone happens to come across anything that might apply, I'd be grateful
if you could forward it on.
Again, many thanks!
Cheers,
Deb.
Debbie M. Decker, Health and Safety Specialist
UCDavis - Environmental Health & Safety
(530)754-7964
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:10:17 -0500
From: "Dr. Linda A. Swihart" <swihart@PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: email hoaxes, Badtimes virus
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Maybe this isn't necessary; if not I apologise for wasting bandwidth with
it. I have been reading most of the messages on this BB for about a year,
and if something on this topic escaped me, sorry.
In the past four weeks I have received four "virus alerts" and one "the
Cancer Society will donate 3 cents to research for every business card sent
to Timmy...." from professional contacts. (None of these messages were
from members of this BB as far as I know, but all of which were addressed
to 40 - 100 other recipients besides myself.)
I searched briefly to determine for sure that the message contents were
hokey, and five time sent a message to a reputable colleague explaining how
demented assholes ('scuse me) start this crap, how EASY it is to establish
that a hoax is a hoax, and how mostly the most decent people get
burned/embarrassed this way at least once before someone clues them in...
so don't be too embarrassed....
How to know if email you get is a hoax? The Department of Energy maintains
a CIAC ("Computer Incident Advisory Capability") web page that is touted as
being "the definitive source for information on computer viruses and
particularly, the many computer email hoaxes, e.g., penpal greetings, good
times virus..." (touted by Central States Communication Association at a
Ball State U web page). The DOE CIAC page is at
http://ciac.llnl.gov/
However it's clearly not perfect. I can't find any reference on this CIAC
page to the "BUDDYLST.ZIP" alert that constituted the topic of three of my
recently received alerts (some alleged doomslinging screen-saver).
Entering "BUDDYLST.ZIP" into Alta Vista got 109 matches, mostly hoax alerts
(of the first ten, the earliest hoax expose was dated August 1997, so the
hoax had been known as a hoax for at least 11 months as of the date I
received it).
So, in case you didn't already know better, SEARCH before you forward
alerts and chain letters to your biggest address book list. The internet
is not as fragile as some would claim it is, but it's stupid to burden it
with and in general perpetuate this garbage.
Off soapbox.
And now, in case you haven't seen it and might find it entertaining:
[NOTE: This is a joke. Do not forward it to anyone!]
-----
!!!WARNING, VIRUS ALERT!!!
If you receive a message with a subject line of "Badtimes," delete it
immediately WITHOUT reading it. This is the most dangerous virus yet.
It will re-write your hard drive. Not only that, but it will scramble
any disks that are even close to your computer up to 20 feet.
It will recalibrate your refrigerator's coolness setting so all
your ice cream melts and milk curdles.
It will demagnetize the strips on all your credit cards,
reprogram your ATM access code, screw up the tracking on your VCR and use
subspace field harmonics to scratch any CDs you try to play.
It will give your ex-boy/girlfriend your new phone number.
It will program your phone autodial to call only your mother's
number. It is insidious and subtle. It is dangerous and terrifying to
behold.
It will mix antifreeze into your fish tank. It will drink all
your beer.
It will hide your car keys when you are late for work and
interfere with your car radio so that you hear 1940's hits and static while
stuck in traffic.
It will give you nightmares about circus midgets.
It will replace your shampoo with Nair and your Nair with
Rogaine, all while dating your current boy/girlfriend behind your back and
billing their hotel rendezvous to your Visa card.
It will seduce your grandmother. It does not matter if she is
dead, such is the power of "Badtimes", it reaches out beyond the grave
to sully those things we hold most dear.
It will rewrite your back-up files, changing all your active
verbs to passive tense and incorporating undetectable misspellings which
grossly change the interpretation of key sentences.
"Badtimes" will give you Dutch Elm disease. It will leave the toilet seat
up and leave the hairdryer plugged in dangerously close to a full bathtub.
It will wantonly remove the forbidden tags from your mattresses
and pillows, and refill your skim milk with whole.
"Badtimes" is an evil virus conceived by evil people. It is also
a rather interesting shade of mauve. These are just a few signs. Be very,
very afraid.
PLEASE FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW!!!
[Repeat: this is a joke. Do not forward it to anyone.]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 08:51:22 -0500
From: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: email hoaxes, Badtimes virus
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980806221015.00712f9c@postoffice.purdue.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The best virus-hoax listing I've seen (yes, it includes BUDDYLST.ZIP) is at
http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/hoax.html
Frequently updated, with "new" hoaxes highlighted, it also lists and
describes real viruses.
JNR
Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu
"The opinions of Dr. Rubin do not necessarily represent those of the
Canadian government, with whom he has no affiliation."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 08:53:52 -0600
From: "Helen B. Gerhard" <hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM>
Subject: Re: email hoaxes, Badtimes virus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thank you for your concern. I appreciate the site to confirm or deny the
rumors. I would like to point out, however, that the current "Long filename
email vulnerability" in Netscape and Microsoft is for real. If you go to
the Netscape homepage, they verify it and are working on a patch to fix it.
I'm sure Microsoft is doing the same.
Thanks!
Helen
-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. Linda A. Swihart [SMTP:swihart@PURDUE.EDU]
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 1998 9:10 PM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: email hoaxes, Badtimes virus
Maybe this isn't necessary; if not I apologise for wasting bandwidth
with
it. I have been reading most of the messages on this BB for about a
year,
and if something on this topic escaped me, sorry.
In the past four weeks I have received four "virus alerts" and one
"the
Cancer Society will donate 3 cents to research for every business
card sent
to Timmy...." from professional contacts. (None of these messages
were
from members of this BB as far as I know, but all of which were
addressed
to 40 - 100 other recipients besides myself.)
I searched briefly to determine for sure that the message contents
were
hokey, and five time sent a message to a reputable colleague
explaining how
demented assholes ('scuse me) start this crap, how EASY it is to
establish
that a hoax is a hoax, and how mostly the most decent people get
burned/embarrassed this way at least once before someone clues them
in...
so don't be too embarrassed....
How to know if email you get is a hoax? The Department of Energy
maintains
a CIAC ("Computer Incident Advisory Capability") web page that is
touted as
being "the definitive source for information on computer viruses and
particularly, the many computer email hoaxes, e.g., penpal
greetings, good
times virus..." (touted by Central States Communication Association
at a
Ball State U web page). The DOE CIAC page is at
http://ciac.llnl.gov/
However it's clearly not perfect. I can't find any reference on
this CIAC
page to the "BUDDYLST.ZIP" alert that constituted the topic of three
of my
recently received alerts (some alleged doomslinging screen-saver).
Entering "BUDDYLST.ZIP" into Alta Vista got 109 matches, mostly hoax
alerts
(of the first ten, the earliest hoax expose was dated August 1997,
so the
hoax had been known as a hoax for at least 11 months as of the date
I
received it).
So, in case you didn't already know better, SEARCH before you
forward
alerts and chain letters to your biggest address book list. The
internet
is not as fragile as some would claim it is, but it's stupid to
burden it
with and in general perpetuate this garbage.
Off soapbox.
And now, in case you haven't seen it and might find it entertaining:
[NOTE: This is a joke. Do not forward it to anyone!]
-----
!!!WARNING, VIRUS ALERT!!!
If you receive a message with a subject line of "Badtimes," delete
it
immediately WITHOUT reading it. This is the most dangerous virus
yet.
It will re-write your hard drive. Not only that, but it will
scramble
any disks that are even close to your computer up to 20 feet.
It will recalibrate your refrigerator's coolness setting so all
your ice cream melts and milk curdles.
It will demagnetize the strips on all your credit cards,
reprogram your ATM access code, screw up the tracking on your VCR
and use
subspace field harmonics to scratch any CDs you try to play.
It will give your ex-boy/girlfriend your new phone number.
It will program your phone autodial to call only your mother's
number. It is insidious and subtle. It is dangerous and terrifying
to
behold.
It will mix antifreeze into your fish tank. It will drink all
your beer.
It will hide your car keys when you are late for work and
interfere with your car radio so that you hear 1940's hits and
static while
stuck in traffic.
It will give you nightmares about circus midgets.
It will replace your shampoo with Nair and your Nair with
Rogaine, all while dating your current boy/girlfriend behind your
back and
billing their hotel rendezvous to your Visa card.
It will seduce your grandmother. It does not matter if she is
dead, such is the power of "Badtimes", it reaches out beyond the
grave
to sully those things we hold most dear.
It will rewrite your back-up files, changing all your active
verbs to passive tense and incorporating undetectable misspellings
which
grossly change the interpretation of key sentences.
"Badtimes" will give you Dutch Elm disease. It will leave the toilet
seat
up and leave the hairdryer plugged in dangerously close to a full
bathtub.
It will wantonly remove the forbidden tags from your mattresses
and pillows, and refill your skim milk with whole.
"Badtimes" is an evil virus conceived by evil people. It is also
a rather interesting shade of mauve. These are just a few signs.
Be very,
very afraid.
PLEASE FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW!!!
[Repeat: this is a joke. Do not forward it to anyone.]
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 10:55:24 -0400
Reply-To: daniel@wsii.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Daniel R. Gigante" <daniel@WSII.COM>
Subject: Exotic, Rare Earth Metals and Rare Gases Wanted
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In addition to accepting large chemical inventories of all kinds, Unison
International is now accepting exotic and rare metals in any quantity, any
age. Examples include:
Iridium Neodymium
Rhodium Europium
Gallium Germanium
Beryllium Columbium
Terbium Cesium
Indium Cerium
We also accept exotic and rare gases:
Krypton
Neon
Xeon
Sulfur Hexafluoride
Please email, fax or call with a description (material name, manufacturer &
quantity) of any metals or gases you have, now and in the future.
Daniel R. Gigante
Unison International
Tel: 401-848-5957
Fax: 401-847-8964
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:21:14 -0300
From: SLYPIG <SLYPIG@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 2 Aug 1998 to 3 Aug 1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
For Marty Besant and the oxymoronic nature of antiviral download alerts:
Agreed! To all who read your message about Email vulnerability: Mac users,
don't be so sure of your invulnerability to viral Email downloads. A dear
friend of mine who almost lost his graphics job, recently downloaded a
virus that crippled his whole department's Mac-based system. The files were
large pictures. Nobody's immune.
--John Cunningham
> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 07:46:10 EDT
> From: Martin Besant <MBesant@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 30 Jul 1998 to 31 Jul 1998
> There's seems to something of an oxymoronic nature to send an e-mail
> concerning the vulnerability of e-mail and to include it as a download,
the
> most common way of spreading a virus. If I hadn't seen on CNN that Mac
users
> are immune to this form of transmission, I would have been very wary of
> opening this post
> marty Besant
> West Seneca East Sr HS
> A suburb of Buffalo NY
> Someday I'll think of one of those really witty closings
> ------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:56:52 +0100
From: Anne Skinner <Anne.R.Skinner@WILLIAMS.EDU>
Subject: LD-50
Comments: To: SAFETY@LIST.UVM.EDU
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Does anyone know of a useful demonstration/group exercise that would
illustrate the concept of LD50? A colleague suggested shooting half the
students in the class but I think that is a bit extreme. This is for a
non-technical group, so actually killing off a bunch of flies is not an
option either.
Thanks --
Anne Skinner
P.S. Hope the cross-posting doesn't overfill too many mailboxes.
/O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\
Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si
\O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/
Dr. Anne Skinner
Chemistry Department, Williams College
47 Lab Campus Drive
Williamstown, MA 01267
anne.r.skinner@williams.edu
Phone: (413) 597-2285
Fax No: (413) 597-4116
/O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\
Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si
\O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:36:59 -0400
Reply-To: "Dr. Henry" <hboyter@cstone.net>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Henry Boyter Jr." <hboyter@CSTONE.NET>
Subject: Re: LD-50
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Take a black bag and put various doasages of wrapped candy and wrapped rocks (or equivalent) in it.
Have about two to three times the number of class members. You could use different flavors also,
instead of the rocks (the rock idea comes from Charlie Brown getting rocks on Halloween). Have each
class member (or a subset) pull out one thing each. Note concentration in original bag that it takes to
"kill 50%" with a rock. Make sure you have extra candy for those who get "killed" each time.
Dr. Henry Boyter, Jr. Ph.D. Chemist
The opinions of Dr. Boyter are provided for informational
purposes only and should not be used as advice. No
warranty or expression of professionalism is implied.
***************
-----Original Message-----
From: Anne Skinner <Anne.R.Skinner@WILLIAMS.EDU>
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Date: Monday, August 10, 1998 5:06 PM
Subject: LD-50
Does anyone know of a useful demonstration/group exercise that would
illustrate the concept of LD50? A colleague suggested shooting half the
students in the class but I think that is a bit extreme. This is for a
non-technical group, so actually killing off a bunch of flies is not an
option either.
Thanks --
Anne Skinner
P.S. Hope the cross-posting doesn't overfill too many mailboxes.
/O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\
Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si
\O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/
Dr. Anne Skinner
Chemistry Department, Williams College
47 Lab Campus Drive
Williamstown, MA 01267
anne.r.skinner@williams.edu
Phone: (413) 597-2285
Fax No: (413) 597-4116
/O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\
Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si
\O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:42:17 -0400
From: Mary Ann Solstad <msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET>
Subject: Re: LD-50
In-Reply-To: <l03010d09b1f4c831aa50@[137.165.16.132]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Anne,
A memorable lesson was given many years ago to a bunch of H S teachers by Jay Young, of DivCHAS, still a lively consultant in Maryland, and a CH&S columnist. It was a memorable lesson and illustrated the important points.
He pointed to the group of about 100.
We are going to discover the LD50 of martinis.
This half (indicated one side of the room); you are the control group; you get nothing but water (groans).
You, (indicating 1st row of other half of the room), get one martini.
Next row gets 2 martinis.
3rd row gets 3 martinis.
At the row in which half of you drop dead, that is the LD50 for martinis. For example if half died from row 4, then the LD50 for martinis is 4 drinks.
You may not like the reference to alcohol, but you won't forget the lesson. And I doubt if the teachers ever forgot. Besides, Jay always has a bit of a twinkle in his eye. Lesson: Don't be too serious in this lesson.
Mary Ann
At 04:56 PM 8/10/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Does anyone know of a useful demonstration/group exercise that would
>illustrate the concept of LD50? A colleague suggested shooting half the
>students in the class but I think that is a bit extreme. This is for a
>non-technical group, so actually killing off a bunch of flies is not an
>option either.
>Thanks --
>Anne Skinner
>P.S. Hope the cross-posting doesn't overfill too many mailboxes.
> /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\
>Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si
> \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/
>Dr. Anne Skinner
>Chemistry Department, Williams College
>47 Lab Campus Drive
>Williamstown, MA 01267
>anne.r.skinner@williams.edu
>Phone: (413) 597-2285
>Fax No: (413) 597-4116
> /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\
>Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si
> \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/
Mary Ann
Mary Ann Solstad
16 Pequot Rd
Marblehead, MA 01945-1202
tel 781-631-4748, FAX 781-631-1832
<paraindent><param>out</param>msolstad@mediaone.net
</paraindent>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:36:47 -0600
From: Linda Perez <liperez@NMSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: LD-50
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Does anyone know of a useful demonstration/group exercise that would
>illustrate the concept of LD50? A colleague suggested shooting half the
>students in the class but I think that is a bit extreme. This is for a
>non-technical group, so actually killing off a bunch of flies is not an
>option either.
>Thanks --
How about a food experiment? Try adding a distinct flavor to something
(e.g. salt to pudding). Start with low dosages, such as a few grains, then
keep adding more and show that the LD50 would be the dose where 50% of the
subjects tasted the salt.
Linda
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Linda S. Perez NAOSMM member #991 since 1994
Coordinator Ask Me!
New Mexico State University
Biology Department (505)646-3915
Box 30001 MSC 3AF (505)382-6547 pager
Foster Hall Room 130 (505)646-5665 fax
Las Cruces, NM 88003 liperez@nmsu.edu
***** http://pc-biology.nmsu.edu/linda/coordina.htm *****
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:22:46 -0600
From: Jeffery M Erickson <ERI@INEL.GOV>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I am looking for a good class addressing the safety aspects and exposure
limits for Nonionizing Radiation (Electromagnetic Radiation, Magnetic
Fields, Infrared Radiation, Ultraviolet Radiation, etc.). Any
recommendations? Please respond to :
Jeff Erickson at:
eri@inel.gov
Thanks.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:34:50 -0600
From: "Helen B. Gerhard" <hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM>
Subject: Sodium Azide
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi All:
I have a chemist interested in using Sodium Azide as an anit-bacterial in
laboratory solutions. He plans on purchasing 5 g and using to make 0.005%
solution. He expects that the 5 g bottle may last as long as 6 months, thus
storage is an issue.
I went to the NIH page describing the use of the material. However, I
haven't seen any information on the amounts of the material used. I
understand the material is highly toxic and thus we'll use reasonable
controls (e.g. proper gowning, use of hood, respirators, etc). However, I
am more concerned with the "explosive decomposition" of the material. How
explosive will this 5 gram bottle be?
Also, Aldrich offers the material in 99.99% + pure (with a notation of
HIGHLY TOXIC, EXPLODES WHEN HEATED) and 99% without the accompanying
notation. Does a ~1% difference in the purity make that much difference?
Does anyone reading have more personal experience with the material? Are
there other materials that could be substituted that are less problematic?
Do I really have an issue here for the amount we'll be using (e.g. safety,
storage, use)?
Any information would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Helen
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 15:08:34 -0400
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: Sodium Azide
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Helen,
Here's the entry from the 1998 CD-ROM version of SAX.
Bob
SODIUM AZIDE SODIUM AZIDE [Hawley] [Prager] [Pohanish]
DPIM: SFA000 Hazard Rating: 3
CAS: 26628-22-8
DOT Number: UN 1687
M Formula: N3Na M Weight: 65.02
Properties:
Colorless, hexagonal crystals. Melting point: decomposition, density: 1.846.
Insoluble in ether; soluble in liquid ammonia.
Synonyms:
AZIDE
AZIUM AZIUM
AZOTURE de SODIUM (FRENCH) AZOTURE SODIUM FRENCH
KAZOE KAZOE
NATRIUMAZID (GERMAN) NATRIUMAZID GERMAN
NATRIUMAZIDE (DUTCH) NATRIUMAZIDE DUTCH
NCI-C06462 NCI C06462
NSC-3072 NSC 3072
RCA WASTE NUMBER P105 RCA WASTE NUMBER P105
SODIUM, AZOTURE de (FRENCH) SODIUM AZOTURE FRENCH
SODIUM, AZOTURO di (ITALIAN) SODIUM AZOTURO ITALIAN
U-3886 U 3886
TOXICITY DATA with REFERENCE
Mutation in Microorganisms-Salmonella typhimurium 10 mg/plate Mutation
Research. (Elsevier Science Publications B.V., POB 211, 1000 AE Amsterdam,
Netherlands) V.1- 1964-MUREAV 144,231,85
DNA Inhibition-Human:fibroblast 50 mg/L Studia Biophysica. (Akademie-Verlag
GmbH, Liepziger Str. 3-4, DDR-108 Berlin, Germany) V.1- 1966-STBIBN
78,165,80
Oral-Rat TDLo:2730 mg/kg/78W-C:Equivocal tumorigenic agent JNCI, Journal of
the National Cancer Institute. (U.S. Government Printing Office,
Superintendent of Documents, Washington, DC 20402) V.61- 1978-JJIND8
67,75,81
Oral-Rat TD:5460 mg/kg/78W-C:Equivocal tumorigenic agent JNCI, Journal of
the National Cancer Institute. (U.S. Government Printing Office,
Superintendent of Documents, Washington, DC 20402) V.61- 1978-JJIND8
67,75,81
Oral-Human TDLo:710 mg/kg:Central nervous system effects,KID Journal of
Clinical Pathology. (British Medical Association, Tavistock Sq., London WC1H
9JR, England) V.1- 1947-JCPAAK 28,350,75
Oral-Rat TDLo:2730 mg/kg/78W-C:Equivocal tumorigenic agent JNCI, Journal of
the National Cancer Institute. (U.S. Government Printing Office,
Superintendent of Documents, Washington, DC 20402) V.61- 1978-JJIND8
67,75,81
Oral-Rat LD :5460 mg/kg/78W-C:Equivocal tumorigenic agent JNCI, Journal of
the National Cancer Institute. (U.S. Government Printing Office,
Superintendent of Documents, Washington, DC 20402) V.61- 1978-JJIND8
67,75,81
Oral-Woman LDLo:14 mg/kg Journal of Forensic Sciences. (American Society
for Testing and Materials, 1916 Race St., Philadelphia, PA 19103) V.1-
1956-JFSCAS 35,193,90
Oral-Woman TDLo:3 mg/kg Archiv fuer Toxikologie. (Berlin, Germany) V.15-31,
1954-74. For publisher information, see ARTODNATXKA8 20,279,65
Oral-Human TDLo:710 mg/kg Journal of Clinical Pathology. (British Medical
Association, Tavistock Sq., London WC1H 9JR, England) V.1- 1947-JCPAAK
28,350,75
Oral-Man LDLo:143 mg/kg Journal of Toxicology, Clinical Toxicology. (Marcel
Dekker, POB 11305, Church St. Station, New York, NY 10249) V.19- 1982-JTCTDW
24,339,86
Oral-Rat LD50:27 mg/kg Farm Chemicals Handbook. (Meister Publishing, 37841
Euclid Ave., Willoughy, OH 44094)FMCHA2-,C32,91
Intraperitoneal-Rat LDLo:30 mg/kg Public Health Reports. (U.S. Government
Printing Office, Superintendent of Documents, Washington, DC 20402) V.1-
1878-PHRPA6 58,607,43
Subcutaneous-Rat LDLo:35 mg/kg Public Health Reports. (U.S. Government
Printing Office, Superintendent of Documents, Washington, DC 20402) V.1-
1878-PHRPA6 58,607,43
Oral-Mouse LD50:27 mg/kg Compilation of LD50 Values of New Drugs. (J.R.
MacDougal, Dept. of National Health and Welfare, Food and Drug Divisions, 35
John St., Ottawa, Ontario, Canada)CLDND* 30,98,48
Subcutaneous-Mouse LDLo:17 mg/kg Archiv fuer Toxikologie. (Berlin, Germany)
V.15-31, 1954-74. For publisher information, see ARTODNATXKA8 22,160,66
Intravenous-Mouse LD50:19 mg/kg Compilation of LD50 Values of New Drugs.
(J.R. MacDougal, Dept. of National Health and Welfare, Food and Drug
Divisions, 35 John St., Ottawa, Ontario, Canada)CLDND* 6,160,52
Intravenous-Monkey LDLo:12 mg/kg Brain; Journal of Neurology. (Oxford Univ.
Press, Walton St., Oxford OX2 6DP, England) V.1- 1878-BRAIAK 95,505,72
Skin-Rabbit, adult LD50:20 mg/kg Farm Chemicals Handbook. (Meister
Publishing, 37841 Euclid Ave., Willoughy, OH 44094)FMCHA2-,C32,91
Subcutaneous-Rabbit, adult LDLo:17 mg/kg Archiv fuer Toxikologie. (Berlin,
Germany) V.15-31, 1954-74. For publisher information, see ARTODNATXKA8
22,160,66
Oral-Bird-type not specified LD50:23,700 mg/kg Archives of Environmental
Contamination and Toxicology. (Springer-Verlag New York, Inc., Service
Center, 44 Hartz Way, Secaucus, NJ 07094) V.1- 1973-AECTCV 12,355,83
Oral-Rat LD50:27 mg/kg Farm Chemicals Handbook. (Meister Publishing, 37841
Euclid Ave., Willoughy, OH 44094)FMCHA2 -,C21,83
Consensus Reports:
Reported in EPA TSCA Inventory. EPA Genetic Toxicology Program. EPA
Extremely Hazardous Substances List.
Standards and Recommendations
OSHA PEL: As NH3: CL 0.1 ppm; As NaN3: Cl 0.3 mg/m3 (skin)
ACGIH TLV: CL 0.29 mg/m3; Not Classifiable as a Human Carcinogen; CL 0.11
ppm (as hydrazoic acid vapor); Not Classifiable as a Human Carcinogen
DFG MAK: 0.07 ppm (0.2 mg/m3)
DOT Classification: 6.1; Label: Poison
SAFETY PROFILE:
Poison by ingestion, skin contact, intraperitoneal, intravenous, and
subcutaneous routes. Human systemic effects by ingestion: general
anesthesia, somnolence, and kidney changes. Questionable carcinogen with
experimental tumorigenic data. Human mutation data reported.
Violent reaction with benzoyl chloride combined with KOH, Br2, barium
carbonate, CS2, Cr(OCl)2, Cu, Pb, HNO3, BaCO3, H2SO4, hot water, (CH3)2SO4,
dibromomalononitrile, sulfuric acid. Incompatible with acids, ammonium
chloride + trichloroacetonitrile, phosgene, cyanuric chloride,
2,5-dinitro-3-methylbenzoic acid + oleum, trifluroroacryloyl chloride.
Reacts with heavy metals (e.g., brass, copper, lead) to form dangerously
explosive heavy metal azides, a particular problem in laboratory equipment
and drain traps. When heated to decomposition it emits very toxic fumes of
NOx and Na2O. See also AZIDES.
Class: Agricultural Chemical; Mutagen; Questionable Carcinogen; Standards or
Recommendations
-----Original Message-----
From: Helen B. Gerhard <hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM>
To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu <LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>
Date: Tuesday, August 11, 1998 14:46
Subject: Sodium Azide
>Hi All:
>I have a chemist interested in using Sodium Azide as an anit-bacterial in
>laboratory solutions. He plans on purchasing 5 g and using to make 0.005%
>solution. He expects that the 5 g bottle may last as long as 6 months,
thus
>storage is an issue.
>I went to the NIH page describing the use of the material. However, I
>haven't seen any information on the amounts of the material used. I
>understand the material is highly toxic and thus we'll use reasonable
>controls (e.g. proper gowning, use of hood, respirators, etc). However, I
>am more concerned with the "explosive decomposition" of the material. How
>explosive will this 5 gram bottle be?
>Also, Aldrich offers the material in 99.99% + pure (with a notation of
>HIGHLY TOXIC, EXPLODES WHEN HEATED) and 99% without the accompanying
>notation. Does a ~1% difference in the purity make that much difference?
>Does anyone reading have more personal experience with the material? Are
>there other materials that could be substituted that are less problematic?
>Do I really have an issue here for the amount we'll be using (e.g. safety,
>storage, use)?
>Any information would be appreciated.
>Thanks!
>Helen
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 15:07:46 -0400
From: "Norman, Randy" <RNorman@MABIOSERVICES.COM>
Subject: Re: Sodium Azide
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Basic hazard minimization: buy the smallest quantities AND MOST DILUTE
SOLUTIONS of hazardous materials that will do the job. There must be
appropriate dilute solutions available that would avoid the serious hazards
of pure sodium azide!
At the use concentration he is aiming for, the sodium azide is not a major
hazard. I wouldn't pour it down the sinks (to avoid accumulation of other
azide salts from reaction with metal plumbing components), nor would I drink
it, but there's no explosion hazard with the very dilute solution he's
trying to prepare. Don't take my word for it - check out an MSDS for one of
the typical reagents which use sodium azide at similar concentrations as a
preservative!
But there should be no excuse for buying the nasty stuff for such a task!
Kinda like buying 70% Perchloric Acid just to make 1N solutions - you've
gotta keep your eyes open for these things!
Randy Norman
Safety Manager
MA BioServices, Inc.
Rockville, MD 20850
Rnorman@mabioservices.com <mailto:Rnorman@mabioservices.com>
"Success is a journey, not a destination" - Ben Sweetland
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:29:33 -0400
From: Jeff Stefani <Jeff.Stefani@NOAA.GOV>
Subject: Experiment Planning
Greetings -
I wonder who has a procedure to review the operations of a lab experiment which
uses chemicals? Perhaps you have it in your Chemical Hygiene Plan.
We'd like to formalize the process of experiment planning as described in the
book "Prudent Practices in the Laboratory, Handling and Disposal of Chemicals."
Thank you.
Jeff Stefani
EHS
NOAA Marine Fisheries
fax: 619-546-7152
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:13:48 -0700
From: Timettra Wellington <sttwelli@JASPER.UOR.EDU>
Organization: University of Redlands
Subject: White Phosphorus
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------0EB68E3B2871BF1855D80472"
--------------0EB68E3B2871BF1855D80472
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi everyone,
I am currently working at the University of Redlands in the Science Department. We
have ~1.5 pounds of white phosphorus packed in oil. What I need from you guys is
to know if anyone knows any practical use for such an unstable element.
Additionally, I would like to know if anyone out there needs or wants the stuff.
Thanks in advance,
Timettra Wellington
Science Lab Tech
University of Redlands
sttwelli@uor.edu
Chemica pecunii gratis
--------------0EB68E3B2871BF1855D80472
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML>
Hi everyone,
<P>I am currently working at the University of Redlands in the Science
Department.&nbsp; We have ~1.5 pounds of white phosphorus packed in oil.&nbsp;
What I need from you guys is to know if anyone knows any practical use
for such an unstable element.&nbsp; Additionally, I would like to know
if anyone out there needs or wants the stuff.
<P>Thanks in advance,
<P>Timettra Wellington
<BR>Science Lab Tech
<BR>University of Redlands
<BR>sttwelli@uor.edu
<BR>&nbsp;
<DL>
<PRE><I><FONT FACE="Arial,Helvetica"><FONT COLOR="#009900">Chemica pecunii gratis</FONT></FONT></I></PRE>
</DL>
</HTML>
--------------0EB68E3B2871BF1855D80472--
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:54:59 -0700
From: Timettra Wellington <sttwelli@JASPER.UOR.EDU>
Organization: University of Redlands
Subject: White Phosphorus
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi everyone,
I am currently working at the University of Redlands in the Science
Department. We have ~1.5 pounds of white phosphorus packed in oil.
What I need from
you guys is to know if anyone knows any practical use for such an
unstable element.
Additionally, I would like to know if anyone out there needs or wants
the stuff.
Thanks in advance,
Timettra Wellington
Science Lab Tech
University of Redlands
sttwelli@uor.edu
Chemica pecunii gratis
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 08:37:13 -0500
From: Hiram Patterson <HPatterson@TAMBCD.EDU>
Subject: Re: White Phosphorus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Timettra,
I would call your hazardous waste disposal company as soon as
possible and get rid of the phosphorous; its too dangerous to handle and
there is no practical nor safe use for it in a teaching laboratory.
Make sure the container is intact and that the oil completely covers the
phosphorous. The military uses it for marking targets in various types
of munitions.
Hiram Patterson
Safety Manager, Baylor College of Dentistry
> ----------
> From: Timettra Wellington[SMTP:sttwelli@JASPER.UOR.EDU]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 1998 4:54 PM
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: White Phosphorus
> Hi everyone,
> I am currently working at the University of Redlands in the Science
> Department. We have ~1.5 pounds of white phosphorus packed in oil.
> What I need from you guys is to know if anyone knows any practical use
> for such an unstable element. Additionally, I would like to know if
> anyone out there needs or wants the stuff.
> Thanks in advance,
> Timettra Wellington
> Science Lab Tech
> University of Redlands
> sttwelli@uor.edu
>
> Chemica pecunii gratis
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 08:34:13 PDT
From: teresa stimpfel <terystim@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Incident re:Sodium Azide
Content-Type: text/plain
Helen,
Some years ago at another university sodium azide caused an explosion.
Researcher used it in a water bath at very dilute concentration over a
long period. He drained the bath and sent it to the instrument shop for
repair. The technician couldn't remove the thermometer probe from the
stone block and started to file the block. It blew sending fine
fragments of the stone in all over. Fortunately the technician was
wearing safety glasses but it scared the daylights out of him!
Terry Stimpfel
Montclair State University
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:10:00 -0400
From: Christine Gourlie <cgourlie@PROCEPT.COM>
Subject: Acronym
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello All-
Was wondering if anyone would know what EEL stands for, as in EEL
requirements for an upscale in manufacturing???
TIA
Christine Gourlie
Manager, Env. Health & Safety
Procept, Inc.
cgourlie@procept.com
617-491-1100 x. 3305
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:21:20 -0700
From: Teresa Robertson <Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Organization: CSU Bakersfield
Subject: Re: NFPA Style Rating for 2,4-DinitroPhenyl Hydrazine
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU,.internet writes:
>The following information was retrieved from
>http://chemfinder.camsoft.com/ .
>This is an EXCELLENT source of chemical information.
>MSDS for 2,4-DINITROPHENYLHYDRAZINE
EFFECTIVE: 03/05/87
> REVISION #02
>BAKER SAF-T-DATA(TM) SYSTEM
....chemfinder.... is an outstanding source of information, but I am
disappointed with the Utah link offering of outdated JTBaker msds.
JTBaker offers their latest msds on the WWW. How can we get Utah and
chemfinder to update?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:51:28 -0600
From: Mark Smith <smithme@ALPHA.HENDRIX.EDU>
Subject: Clip-art for Powerpoint
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Fellow Labsafety folks,
I am working on several powerpoint presentations for Hazcom, Chemical
Hygiene, and Bloodborne Pathogens training and was wondering if anyone knew
of a good source for clip-art that would relate to some of the training
objectives.
I am working in a Mac environment which may make some difference on my choices.
Thanks.
MS
***************************************
MARK SMITH
HENDRIX COLLEGE CHEMISTRY
LABORATORY COORDINATOR
CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER
***************************************
1600 Washington Ave
Conway, AR 72032
501-450-3812
Fax : 501-450-3829
***************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:14:18 -0400
From: Christine Gourlie <cgourlie@PROCEPT.COM>
Subject: acronym
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello All -
Was wondering if anyone in the manufacturing world out there knows what
"EEL" stands for - has something to do with a scale up of production and
you must meet "EEL requirements"???
TIA
Christine
Christine Gourlie
Manager, Env. Health & Safety
Procept, Inc.
cgourlie@procept.com
617-491-1100 x. 3305
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:12:02 -0700
From: Michael Ahler
<Ahler_Michael_D/cpslo_employee1@POLYMAIL.CPUNIX.CALPOLY.EDU>
Subject: Clip-art for Powerpoint
Comments: To: smithme@ALPHA.HENDRIX.EDU
In-Reply-To: <"v01540b00b1f7bdb78553(a)(091)150.208.202.107(093)*"@MHS>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Clip-art"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Fellow Clippers,
I have recently purchased a bargain molecular modeling software package
from Molecular Arts. This company also offers collection of Clip Art
(in several scientific and technical categories). Anyone interested in
acquiring usable clipart ( as for a Power Point presentation) should
check out the link at http://www.molecules.com/m3d25sfs.htm
Thanks.
Michael Ahler
Chemical Hygiene Officer
Cal Poly State University
San Luis Obispo, California
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:48:26 EDT
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: NACHO Breakfast
Comments: To: jbutrym@gaulin-rannie.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-08-12 12:02:10 EDT, you write:
<< What/Where is the Nacho Breakfast for sure... I've had a hard time
decifering the details from all the postings to Labsafety. >>
The NACHO Breakfast is going to be held in the Back Bay Hilton at
7AM on Monday, August 24th. The Council Committee on Chemical
Safety meets at 8:30AM. That gives us plenty of time for a leisurely
breakfast and then adjourn to the meeting.
If folks will let me know that they plan to attend, I will have a blok of
tables
set aside. .. jim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 08:02:09 EDT
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Newsletter Submissions Requested
Comments: To: Listserv@list.uvm.edu, Safe-NZ@niwa.cri.nz,
nsela-l@science.coe.uwf.edu, NAOSMM@LISTSERV.RICE.EDU,
dchas-l@SIU.EDU, chemlab_L@vax1.bemidji.msus.edu,
CHEMCOM@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU, chemed-l@atlantis.UWF.edu,
biopi-l@sku.edu, APCHEM-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
The Laboratory Safety Workshop would like to invite contribitutions of
articles, news items, accident stories, guest editorials for publication in
our newsletter "Speaking of Safety".
Materials can be submitted to the address below. Electronic submission by
either email or disk is appreciated.
If we publish your article or guest editorial, your'll receive a complimentary
one year subscription (three issues). ... jim
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSI.
Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG
**********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 07:29:16 -0700
From: Neal Langerman <chemsaf@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO Breakfast
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jim:
Unless things turn sour for me, I will be there. See you then.
Neal
At 09:48 PM 8/12/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-08-12 12:02:10 EDT, you write:
><< What/Where is the Nacho Breakfast for sure... I've had a hard time
> decifering the details from all the postings to Labsafety. >>
>The NACHO Breakfast is going to be held in the Back Bay Hilton at
>7AM on Monday, August 24th. The Council Committee on Chemical
>Safety meets at 8:30AM. That gives us plenty of time for a leisurely
>breakfast and then adjourn to the meeting.
>If folks will let me know that they plan to attend, I will have a blok of
>tables
>set aside. .. jim
>
*************************************************************
NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com
ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY
8909 Complex Drive
San Diego CA 92123-1418
619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX)
619 990 4908 (cellular)
visit our homepage: http://www.chemical-safety.com
*************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:06:05 +0100
From: Anne Skinner <Anne.R.Skinner@WILLIAMS.EDU>
Subject: Re: NACHO Breakfast
In-Reply-To: <ba1de638.35d245eb@aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Jim -- I plan to attend and hope to see lots of others there.
Anne Skinner
/O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\
Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si
\O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/
Dr. Anne Skinner
Chemistry Department, Williams College
47 Lab Campus Drive
Williamstown, MA 01267
anne.r.skinner@williams.edu
Phone: (413) 597-2285
Fax No: (413) 597-4116
/O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\
Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si
\O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:13:06 EDT
From: Martin Besant <MBesant@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 9 Aug 1998 to 10 Aug 1998
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Topic LD-50
Building on the Martini idea presented earlier.
First some background
We use a sodium carbonate solution as an example of aids transmission. Most
students receive distilled water but one or two get dilute na2co3. After a few
"exchanges" of luid, the instructor tests for HIV with phenolphthalein
So here's the adaptaion. Each row of students receives a cup of dilute vinegar
with phenolphthalein. Perhaps a range of dilutions to demonstrate the varying
immunities or resistance or body weight (small to large concentrations could
represent varying body weight)
Then each is invited to partake of the poison a fixed number of times as in
the Martini demonstartion.
A few students in each row would die. But there would be a row with 50% death.
I'm thinking and writing at the same time and can see that this needs some
polish, but I have a strong feeling that the needd to incorporate some
demonstartion of body weight variability is needed to bring the demo into full
focus with the definition of LD-50
Marty Besant
West Seneca East Sr HS
A suburb of Buffalo, NY
If Yoda so much of the force has
Why he so word order bad is
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:24:29 -0400
From: "David (Fuzz) Harrison" <fdh@ARETHA.JAX.ORG>
Subject: Re: White Phosphorus
In-Reply-To: <35D0B40A.E4A063A9@uor.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Timettra:
One option you may have is recycling. While active duty in the Navy I did
ordnance management, among other things, and observed an interesting method
of dealing with surplus white phosphorus ordnance. The Naval Weapons
Support Center in Crane, Indiana, developed a safe, cost effective method
for disposing of 16-inch WP (called "willie peter" in the military) shells.
They would heat the shells in an inert environment to melt the WP, punch a
hole in the side of the shell, rotate it to pour the WP out, then
chemically treat to produce phosphoric acid. They had a contract with
Coca-Cola and periodically a truck would pull-in, load-up, and head for a
coke manufacturing plant (check the ingredients listed on the can on your
desk). That was in 1990...and it may still be going on for all I know
(they've since decommissioned all four battleships with 16-inch guns).
I'm not necessarily suggesting you contact the NWSC in Crane, but you might
have some luck with chemical recyclers. This would save on hazwaste
disposal costs.
At 02:13 PM 8/11/98 -0700, you wrote:
> Hi everyone, Additionally, I would like to know if anyone out there
>needs or wants the stuff. Thanks in advance, Timettra Wellington
>Science Lab Tech
>University of Redlands
>sttwelli@uor.edu
> Chemica pecunii gratis
Fuzz Harrison, Industrial Hygienist
The Jackson Laboratory, 600 Main Street, Bar Harbor ME 04609-1500
(http://www.jax.org/)
207.288.6473 voice, 207.288.6147 fax, fdh@aretha.jax.org email
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:53:32 -0400
From: "Walters.Douglas" <walters@NIEHS.NIH.GOV>
Subject: Re: NACHO Breakfast
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
See you there.
Doug Walters
walters@niehs.nih.gov
> ----------
> From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
> Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List
> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 9:48 PM
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: Re: NACHO Breakfast
> In a message dated 98-08-12 12:02:10 EDT, you write:
> << What/Where is the Nacho Breakfast for sure... I've had a hard time
> decifering the details from all the postings to Labsafety. >>
> The NACHO Breakfast is going to be held in the Back Bay Hilton at
> 7AM on Monday, August 24th. The Council Committee on Chemical
> Safety meets at 8:30AM. That gives us plenty of time for a leisurely
> breakfast and then adjourn to the meeting.
> If folks will let me know that they plan to attend, I will have a blok of
> tables
> set aside. .. jim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:07:19 -0600
From: "Helen B. Gerhard" <hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM>
Subject: Re: White Phosphorus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I'm not sure FDA would approve of raw material obtained in this way unless
they did a heck of a lot of testing to assure no contamination!
Thanks!
Helen
-----Original Message-----
From: David (Fuzz) Harrison [SMTP:fdh@ARETHA.JAX.ORG]
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 10:24 AM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: White Phosphorus
Timettra:
One option you may have is recycling. While active duty in the Navy
I did
ordnance management, among other things, and observed an interesting
method
of dealing with surplus white phosphorus ordnance. The Naval
Weapons
Support Center in Crane, Indiana, developed a safe, cost effective
method
for disposing of 16-inch WP (called "willie peter" in the military)
shells.
They would heat the shells in an inert environment to melt the WP,
punch a
hole in the side of the shell, rotate it to pour the WP out, then
chemically treat to produce phosphoric acid. They had a contract
with
Coca-Cola and periodically a truck would pull-in, load-up, and head
for a
coke manufacturing plant (check the ingredients listed on the can on
your
desk). That was in 1990...and it may still be going on for all I
know
(they've since decommissioned all four battleships with 16-inch
guns).
I'm not necessarily suggesting you contact the NWSC in Crane, but
you might
have some luck with chemical recyclers. This would save on hazwaste
disposal costs.
At 02:13 PM 8/11/98 -0700, you wrote:
> Hi everyone, Additionally, I would like to know if anyone out
there
>needs or wants the stuff. Thanks in advance, Timettra Wellington
>Science Lab Tech
>University of Redlands
>sttwelli@uor.edu
> Chemica pecunii gratis
Fuzz Harrison, Industrial Hygienist
The Jackson Laboratory, 600 Main Street, Bar Harbor ME 04609-1500
(http://www.jax.org/)
207.288.6473 voice, 207.288.6147 fax, fdh@aretha.jax.org email
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:17:09 EDT
From: stefan <EHSADM5@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: NACHO Breakfast
In-Reply-To: <ba1de638.35d245eb@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:48:26 EDT said:
>The NACHO Breakfast is going to be held in the Back Bay Hilton at
>7AM on Monday, August 24th. The Council Committee on Chemical
>Safety meets at 8:30AM. That gives us plenty of time for a leisurely
>breakfast and then adjourn to the meeting.
************* SEPARATOR ***********************************
I realize scheduling conflicts will occur, but I want to point out to
attendees that there are some very good General Session topics running
simultaneously on Monday morning, which I have been asked to preside over.
I'll actually start the events with my own talk- "in the Aftermath of a
RCRA inspection: a university's experience" at 8:30. Other topics that
morning include: new developments on contact lens- wearing in labs; Plant
process safety; ChemMIST; global chemical control laws; and chemical
safety practices in micro-and biomedical labs. See the program for
more information. Hope to see some of you there!
Stefan Wawzyniecki, CIH, NRCC-CHO
University of Connecticut
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:32:31 -0500
From: Harry Elston <helston@FGI.NET>
Subject: Re: White Phosphorus
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:24 PM 8/13/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Timettra:
(snip)
> They had a contract with
>Coca-Cola and periodically a truck would pull-in, load-up, and head for a
>coke manufacturing plant (check the ingredients listed on the can on your
>desk). That was in 1990...and it may still be going on for all I know
>(they've since decommissioned all four battleships with 16-inch guns).
>I'm not necessarily suggesting you contact the NWSC in Crane, but you might
>have some luck with chemical recyclers. This would save on hazwaste
>disposal costs.
I've always wondered where the burning sensation came from in a can of
Coke. Yum, Yum....I like a little vanilla syurp in mine ;)
Harry
Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO
Chemical Hygiene Officer
Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety
Opinions are mine, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah
"God made all those stars out of nothin'. He just
'pfffft' and there they were."
-Larry the Cucumber, Veggie Tales
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:48:24 -0700
From: Timettra Wellington <sttwelli@JASPER.UOR.EDU>
Organization: University of Redlands
Subject: Re: White Phosphorus
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Vanilla syrup?? I never thought of that. Maybe I'll give it a try.{:-)
Thanks
Timettra Wellington
Science Lab Tech
University of Redlands
sttwelli@uor.edu
Chemica pecunii gratis
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 14:59:54 -0400
From: Mary Ann Solstad <msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET>
Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 9 Aug 1998 to 10 Aug 1998
In-Reply-To: <75c627fe.35d30283@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:13 AM 8/13/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Topic LD-50
>Building on the Martini idea presented earlier.
>First some background
>We use a sodium carbonate solution as an example of aids transmission. Most
>students receive distilled water but one or two get dilute na2co3. After a
few
>"exchanges" of luid, the instructor tests for HIV with phenolphthalein
>So here's the adaptaion. Each row of students receives a cup of dilute
vinegar
>with phenolphthalein. Perhaps a range of dilutions to demonstrate the varying
>immunities or resistance or body weight (small to large concentrations could
>represent varying body weight)
>Then each is invited to partake of the poison a fixed number of times as in
>the Martini demonstartion.
>A few students in each row would die. But there would be a row with 50%
death.
>I'm thinking and writing at the same time and can see that this needs some
>polish, but I have a strong feeling that the needd to incorporate some
>demonstartion of body weight variability is needed to bring the demo into
full
>focus with the definition of LD-50
No need. Body wt. is taken care of within the LD50, as its usually --mg/kg
of body wt. LC-50 is a bit different, as its ppm(in air) for __hrs, to 50%
fatality.
The AIDs transmission demo is interesting, although I doubt if you get the
dilution effect with HIV.
Mary Ann
>Marty Besant
>West Seneca East Sr HS
>A suburb of Buffalo, NY
>If Yoda so much of the force has
>Why he so word order bad is
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:28:43 PDT
From: teresa stimpfel <terystim@HOTMAIL.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain
----Original Message Follows----
From: RPRNET/K3PO01/POSTMASTER
<IMCEAMS-RPRNET_K3PO01_POSTMASTER@centeon.com>
To: teresa stimpfel <terystim@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Mail failure
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:56:00 -0400
[002] Mail was received for unknown addresses.
Message was not delivered to
RPRNET/K3PO01/BRENIKJ (RPRNET/K3PO01/BRENIKJ)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Microsoft Mail v3.0 (MAPI 1.0 Transport) IPM.Microsoft Mail.Note
From: teresa stimpfel
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Incident re:Sodium Azide
Date: 1998-08-12 11:34
Priority: 3
Message ID: 4285B9EAEC31D2119B4F00805FEA7E28
Helen,
Some years ago at another university sodium azide caused an explosion.
Researcher used it in a water bath at very dilute concentration over a
long period. He drained the bath and sent it to the instrument shop for
repair. The technician couldn't remove the thermometer probe from the
stone block and started to file the block. It blew sending fine
fragments of the stone in all over. Fortunately the technician was
wearing safety glasses but it scared the daylights out of him!
Terry Stimpfel
Montclair State University
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:32:31 +1200
From: John Downey <John.Downey@WAITAKERE.GOVT.NZ>
Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 9 Aug 1998 to 10 Aug 1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Reminds me of a demo we did in Stage 2 Microbiology at Central Queensland
University to demonstrate STD transmission and how to track the source.
Everybody stood in a big circle on the lawn with a glove on their right
hand. The lab tech came round with a tray of marshmallows, one of which had
been inoculated with S. marcescens. Each of us picked a marshmallow at
random in our glove, then a second tech came round with a trigger spray
bottle, and we started squeezing the marshmallow, lubricated with a bit of
water, till it went all mushy. Once everybody's glove was all sticky, one
person went off and shook hands with someone else at random, a third tech
recorded who contacted whom, then the next person in the circle picked
another random contact, etc., till we had gone right round the circle. Then
we plated our hands.
Then we did a second lap, more water being added as the marshmallows dried.
Then plate again. I think we did about four laps of the circle.
Then we incubated our plates, which most of us remembered to identify as
round 1, 2 3 or 4, etc. By round 4, I think just about everybody was
infected out of a class of about 35 or so. And we isolated the source (amid
much hilarity) to one of two people.
As well as demonstrating how to track back on contacts from infectious
diseases, it was a salutory lesson in care in handling infectious specimens
- we were given graphic descriptions of where we would be spending most of
the next few days if we contaminated ourselves!!
It made an interesting conversation topic in the club over subsequent days.
John Downey
Waitakere City Council
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mary Ann Solstad [SMTP:msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET]
> Sent: Friday, August 14, 1998 7:00 AM
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 9 Aug 1998 to 10 Aug 1998
> At 11:13 AM 8/13/98 EDT, you wrote:
> >Topic LD-50
> >Building on the Martini idea presented earlier.
> >First some background
> >We use a sodium carbonate solution as an example of aids transmission.
> Most
> >students receive distilled water but one or two get dilute na2co3. After
> a
> few
> >"exchanges" of luid, the instructor tests for HIV with phenolphthalein
> >So here's the adaptaion. Each row of students receives a cup of dilute
> vinegar
> >with phenolphthalein. Perhaps a range of dilutions to demonstrate the
> varying
> >immunities or resistance or body weight (small to large concentrations
> could
> >represent varying body weight)
> >Then each is invited to partake of the poison a fixed number of times as
> in
> >the Martini demonstartion.
> >A few students in each row would die. But there would be a row with 50%
> death.
> >I'm thinking and writing at the same time and can see that this needs
> some
> >polish, but I have a strong feeling that the needd to incorporate some
> >demonstartion of body weight variability is needed to bring the demo into
> full
> >focus with the definition of LD-50
> No need. Body wt. is taken care of within the LD50, as its usually
> --mg/kg
> of body wt. LC-50 is a bit different, as its ppm(in air) for __hrs, to
> 50%
> fatality.
> The AIDs transmission demo is interesting, although I doubt if you get the
> dilution effect with HIV.
> Mary Ann
> >Marty Besant
> >West Seneca East Sr HS
> >A suburb of Buffalo, NY
> >If Yoda so much of the force has
> >Why he so word order bad is
> >
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 05:42:41 -0700
From: Becky Hoagland <HoaglanB@ARS.USDA.GOV>
Subject: Sodium Azide -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Helen, I've not had a lot of direct personal experience with sodium azide,
but I am somewhat familiar with some of it's more notorious
characteristics. It's been used for years in hospitals and other labs for
just the purpose your chemist has in mind....as an antibacterial, often in
water bath solutions. I had a researcher whose use of NaN3 for plant
tissue work was resulting in large quantities of very dilute NaN3
solutions, which we were disposing of as hazardous waste. However,
when I contacted the state regulators for an actual waste determination,
they said the spent solutions were NOT hazardous waste.
The major problem with NaN3 is that the azide ions can react with other
metals to form explosive compounds. This has been the case in
situations where spent solutions were disposed of down the drain, and
the material sat in contact with metal pipes for a period of time sufficient
to form the reactive constituents. The next thing you know, the lab is
experiencing some time of drain/plumbing problem, and the plumber
comes in to examine the pipes, but can't loosen the fittings. So he takes
his handy pipe wrench and gives the stubborn fittings a tap to
"persuade" them, and BOOM!!!
Something to keep in mind regarding the toxicity of NaN3 is that it is it has
been used to control hypertension in humans...again we recall the adage
that "the poison is in the dose."
The publication Hazardous Laboratory Chemicals Disposal Guide by
M.A. Armour (published by CRC Press) gives good coverage of the
physical and health hazards of NaN3, and some disposal options. Then,
of course, there's always "the Bible"...Bretherick's Handbook of
Reactive Chemical Hazards.
Regarding your question about substituting a more "user friendly"
concoction, I know there are some commercial products available out
there. Unfortunately, I can't provide you with any specifics at the
moment. I think some vendors that sell water bath units and related
equipment also sell these anti-bacterial solutions.
I hope all of my ramblings have provided you with something useful.
Good luck!!
Becky Hoagland
Environmental Protection Specialist
USDA-ARS
P.O. Box 225
Stoneville, MS 38776
Phone: 601-686-5432
Fax: 601-686-5373
E-mail: hoaglanb@ars.usda.gov
>>> "Helen B. Gerhard" <hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM> 08/11/98
01:34pm >>>
Hi All:
I have a chemist interested in using Sodium Azide as an anit-bacterial in
laboratory solutions. He plans on purchasing 5 g and using to make
0.005%
solution. He expects that the 5 g bottle may last as long as 6 months,
thus
storage is an issue.
I went to the NIH page describing the use of the material. However, I
haven't seen any information on the amounts of the material used. I
understand the material is highly toxic and thus we'll use reasonable
controls (e.g. proper gowning, use of hood, respirators, etc). However,
I
am more concerned with the "explosive decomposition" of the material.
How
explosive will this 5 gram bottle be?
Also, Aldrich offers the material in 99.99% + pure (with a notation of
HIGHLY TOXIC, EXPLODES WHEN HEATED) and 99% without the
accompanying
notation. Does a ~1% difference in the purity make that much
difference?
Does anyone reading have more personal experience with the material?
Are
there other materials that could be substituted that are less problematic?
Do I really have an issue here for the amount we'll be using (e.g. safety,
storage, use)?
Any information would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Helen
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:01:19 -0400
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: fire
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
We just had a minor fire outside our back door. A smoker left a butt in the
mulch and it started smoldering. No big deal, a little wateer put it out.
the potential is scary though.
We have a designated smoking room in the building, but make no effort to
regulate smoking outside. The smoking room reeks, as you might expect, so
people wpuld rather go outside.
Any thoughts? Anyone address this problem?
Tanks!
Bob
"Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!"
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
RUETGERS Organics Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 05:53:34 -0700
From: Becky Hoagland <HoaglanB@ARS.USDA.GOV>
Subject: Re: NACHO Breakfast -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Jim, I'd like to be included in the NACHO breakfast. Wait...Let me reword
that. I'd like to be included among those attending the NACHO breakfast.
Thanks for all your efforts in putting this thing together. Looking forward
to meeting you in Boston.
Becky Hoagland
Environmental Protection Specialist
USDA-ARS
P.O. Box 225
Stoneville, MS 38776
Phone: 601-686-5432
Fax: 601-686-5373
E-mail: hoaglanb@ars.usda.gov
>>> <Labsafe@AOL.COM> 08/12/98 08:48pm >>>
In a message dated 98-08-12 12:02:10 EDT, you write:
<< What/Where is the Nacho Breakfast for sure... I've had a hard time
decifering the details from all the postings to Labsafety. >>
The NACHO Breakfast is going to be held in the Back Bay Hilton at
7AM on Monday, August 24th. The Council Committee on Chemical
Safety meets at 8:30AM. That gives us plenty of time for a leisurely
breakfast and then adjourn to the meeting.
If folks will let me know that they plan to attend, I will have a blok of
tables
set aside. .. jim
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:36:55 -0400
From: Robert Murphy <murphy@BGNET.BGSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: fire
In-Reply-To: <003401bdc783$a1753c20$0100007f@rburns.ruetgers-nease.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Having a specific area outside for the smokers would be nice. Get some
benches and sand pots for the butts. I have seen smoking patios where it a
canopy to keep people dry. That may work.
If they want to say inside, the smoking room needs to have excellent
exhaust and supply ventilation.
Hope this helps.
Bob
At 09:01 AM 8/14/98 -0400, you wrote:
>We just had a minor fire outside our back door. A smoker left a butt in the
>mulch and it started smoldering. No big deal, a little wateer put it out.
>the potential is scary though.
>We have a designated smoking room in the building, but make no effort to
>regulate smoking outside. The smoking room reeks, as you might expect, so
>people wpuld rather go outside.
>Any thoughts? Anyone address this problem?
>Tanks!
>Bob
>"Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!"
>Robert L. Burns
>Group Leader, R&D
>RUETGERS Organics Corporation
>201 Struble Road
>State College, PA 16801
>phone 814-231-9214
>fax 814-238-1567
>email rburns@bigfoot.com
******************************************
Robert Murphy, Industrial Hygienist
Environmental Health and Safety
Bowling Green State University
Phone: (419) 372-2171
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 06:50:04 -0700
From: MEMBERTO <MEMBERTO@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: fire
In-Reply-To: note of 08/14/98 06:45
One problem that a few of our office people have is when the smokers return
to the room, they bring the smell with them. The Reek travels.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:03:32 -0400
From: "David (Fuzz) Harrison" <fdh@ARETHA.JAX.ORG>
Subject: Re: fire
In-Reply-To: <003401bdc783$a1753c20$0100007f@rburns.ruetgers-nease.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Bob:
Our lab is adjacent to Acadia National Park, and people are somewhat phobic
about fires around here: almost half of the island burned in 1947,
including the entire lab. We had a similar occurence last summer when the
fire hazard was high, so the lab instituted a policy of smoking only in
private vehicles---the last thing we want to be is a party to another large
fire on-island. When fire hazard conditions improved, the policy remained
in effect---to this day. We have no rooms designated for smoking (but then
we're not union either).
At 09:01 AM 8/14/98 -0400, you wrote:
>We just had a minor fire outside our back door. A smoker left a butt in the
>mulch and it started smoldering. No big deal, a little wateer put it out.
>the potential is scary though.
>We have a designated smoking room in the building, but make no effort to
>regulate smoking outside. The smoking room reeks, as you might expect, so
>people wpuld rather go outside.
>Any thoughts? Anyone address this problem?
>Tanks!
>Bob
>"Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!"
>Robert L. Burns
>Group Leader, R&D
>RUETGERS Organics Corporation
>201 Struble Road
>State College, PA 16801
>phone 814-231-9214
>fax 814-238-1567
>email rburns@bigfoot.com
Fuzz Harrison, Industrial Hygienist
The Jackson Laboratory, 600 Main Street, Bar Harbor ME 04609-1500
(http://www.jax.org/)
207.288.6473 voice, 207.288.6147 fax, fdh@aretha.jax.org email
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:15:39 -0400
From: Howard Spencer <SpencerH@ABSECON.GSTPA.COM>
Subject: Re: Clip-art for Powerpoint
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Try Clip Art 2000 from Molecular - see Mike Ahlers mail.
> ----------
> From: Mark Smith[SMTP:smithme@ALPHA.HENDRIX.EDU]
> Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List
> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 5:51 PM
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: Clip-art for Powerpoint
> Fellow Labsafety folks,
> I am working on several powerpoint presentations for Hazcom, Chemical
> Hygiene, and Bloodborne Pathogens training and was wondering if anyone
> knew
> of a good source for clip-art that would relate to some of the
> training
> objectives.
> I am working in a Mac environment which may make some difference on my
> choices.
> Thanks.
> MS
> ***************************************
> MARK SMITH
> HENDRIX COLLEGE CHEMISTRY
> LABORATORY COORDINATOR
> CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER
> ***************************************
> 1600 Washington Ave
> Conway, AR 72032
> 501-450-3812
> Fax : 501-450-3829
> ***************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 08:14:38 -0600
From: Linda Perez <liperez@NMSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: fire
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>We just had a minor fire outside our back door. A smoker left a butt in the
>mulch and it started smoldering. No big deal, a little wateer put it out.
>the potential is scary though.
>We have a designated smoking room in the building, but make no effort to
>regulate smoking outside. The smoking room reeks, as you might expect, so
>people wpuld rather go outside.
>Any thoughts? Anyone address this problem?
My suggestion would be to put one or two of those outside ashtrays with the
sand in the top by the doors where the smokers congregate. Not only will
you avoid the smoldering butts on the ground but also, the mess of butts
laying all over the ground. Your grounds department may even pay for them
if you point out the fire and the mess being left behind.
Linda
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Linda S. Perez NAOSMM member #991 since 1994
Coordinator Ask Me!
New Mexico State University
Biology Department (505)646-3915
Box 30001 MSC 3AF (505)382-6547 pager
Foster Hall Room 130 (505)646-5665 fax
Las Cruces, NM 88003 liperez@nmsu.edu
***** http://pc-biology.nmsu.edu/linda/coordina.htm *****
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:22:14 -0400
From: Madelyn Miller <mmiller@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: fire
In-Reply-To: <01J0L22Z0AXU99TNDK@asu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Greetings All,
In addition to sand for butts you should keep your mulch wet around
areas smoking congregate. Smokers just love to send their burning
projectiles soaring. Like a spitting contest. Wow did you see how far
I got that one!
Madelyn
----------------------
Madelyn Miller
Chemical Safety Specialist,CCHO
Environmental Health & Safety
Carnegie Mellon University
mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:51:51 -0400
From: "Robert N. Nelson" <robert.n.nelson@GASOU.EDU>
Subject: Re: fire
In-Reply-To: <SIMEON.9808141114.G@miller-pc.PC.CC.CMU.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:22 8/14/98 -0400, you wrote:
At NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center where I have spent some time, they
use a device called a "Smoker's Outpost" (tm). It has an enclosed metal
bucket topped by a roughly 3 foot long tubular top with several openings
near the top. The idea is that the first few cigarettes dropped down the
tube into the bucket use up most of the oxygen in the unit so that later
cigarettes go out quickly due to lack of oxygen. It certainly seems to
keep the odor down and because it is covered, you don't have the ugly mess
of cigarette butts floating in brown goo after a rain storm. NASA policy
forbids smoking in buildings and on loading docks but sets aside a
reasonably sheltered outdoor area near each building for smokers.
Bob Nelson
Robert N. Nelson <robert.n.nelson@gasou.edu> Chem. Dept. Georgia Southern
Univ.
P.O.B. 8064, Statesboro, GA 30460-8064 912-681-5675 (voice) 912-681-0699 (fax)
*********
From 3/15/98 to 8/10/98 I can be reached at NASA Goddard Space Flight Center,
301-286-5620
**************
The opinions expressed here are my personal opinions and do not
necessarily reflect the views of my employer.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:28:09 -0700
From: Teresa Robertson <Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Organization: CSU Bakersfield
Subject: Re: fire
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
We also use the "smokers's outpost", and have found another advantage
in addition to those already mentioned. We used to have the large
round cylinders with the sand in the top, and people found those
convenient to use to prop open doors, frequently tipping them over
moving them about. They don't try to prop the doors with the
"Outposts". TRR
LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU,.internet writes:
>At 11:22 8/14/98 -0400, you wrote:
> At NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center where I have spent some
>time, they
>use a device called a "Smoker's Outpost" (tm). It has an enclosed metal
>bucket topped by a roughly 3 foot long tubular top with several openings
>near the top. The idea is that the first few cigarettes dropped down
>the
>tube into the bucket use up most of the oxygen in the unit so that later
>cigarettes go out quickly due to lack of oxygen. It certainly seems to
>keep the odor down and because it is covered, you don't have the ugly
>mess
>of cigarette butts floating in brown goo after a rain storm. NASA
>policy
>forbids smoking in buildings and on loading docks but sets aside a
>reasonably sheltered outdoor area near each building for smokers.
>Bob Nelson
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 20:40:06 EDT
From: Martin Besant <MBesant@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 12 Aug 1998 to 13 Aug 1998
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
To Mary Ann Solstad
While I agree that the units of LD-50 provide for body weight. I do not think
that any of the previously suggested demos model this variable.
In the candy or jelly bean demo, everyone takes candy until they get a "black"
jelly bean. Obviously larger ingestions of a toxin will result in higher
mortality until 50% is reached. But all students are treated as having the
same resistance to the toxin.
I believe there needs to be a limiting reagent within the demo to model the
variable tolerance of subjects to a toxin. A person could be subjected to a
large dose yet survive due to the larger body weight. I do not believe this is
adequately modeled in the other suggested demonstrations.
The marshmallow idea for modeling communicable disease transmission has an
interesting suggestion that I will bring back to our classes. The recording of
partners and the method of retracing the disease to the source host
Marty Besant
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:39:34 -0400
From: Mary Ann Solstad <msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET>
Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 12 Aug 1998 to 13 Aug 1998
In-Reply-To: <12815f09.35d4d8e7@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:40 PM 8/14/98 EDT, you wrote:
>To Mary Ann Solstad
>While I agree that the units of LD-50 provide for body weight. I do not think
>that any of the previously suggested demos model this variable.
>In the candy or jelly bean demo, everyone takes candy until they get a
"black"
>jelly bean. Obviously larger ingestions of a toxin will result in higher
>mortality until 50% is reached. But all students are treated as having the
>same resistance to the toxin.
>I believe there needs to be a limiting reagent within the demo to model the
>variable tolerance of subjects to a toxin. A person could be subjected to a
>large dose yet survive due to the larger body weight.
Not if the dose was given, as is the standard in toxicology, as mg/kg of
body wt. Of course, the variation in resistance is another matter, which
is why we study populations, not individuals. Forgive me. 20 yr ago, as
supv. of a toxicology lab, i used to have to explain basic toxicology,
metabolisim, etc., to sleepy ER doctors trying to figure out what the lab
results meant.
Did the demo I described midway in this thread, not original with me, of
the LD50 of martinis, ever make the list. I had trouble sending it--it got
bounced back to me.
Mary Ann
>I do not believe this is
>adequately modeled in the other suggested demonstrations.
>The marshmallow idea for modeling communicable disease transmission has an
>interesting suggestion that I will bring back to our classes. The
recording of
>partners and the method of retracing the disease to the source host
>Marty Besant
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:55:50 -0400
From: Julie O'Brien <afn35210@AFN.ORG>
Subject: Freezers for Flammable Chemical Storage
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Our department needs to replace a freezer that is used to store chemicals,
particularly chemicals that are both flammable and corrosive. The freezer
that we are replacing appears to be a standard large household freezer. I
thought that we would need to purchase a freezer that was rated for
flammable storage use, but I have been unable to find a manufacturer that
makes one. Could this be because the chemicals would be stored well below
their flash point in a freezer? Or have I just not found the right
manufacturer?
Julie O'Brien
Chemist
PCR, Inc. R&D
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:14:08 -0400
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: Freezers for Flammable Chemical Storage
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The Fisher Scientific catalog has refrigerators, refrigerator/freezers and
freezers rated for flammable material storage.
Rating for flammable material storage means that it will prevent an outside
fire from igniting the contents, just like a flammable storage caninet.
Hope this helps!
"Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!"
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
RUETGERS Organics Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Julie O'Brien <afn35210@AFN.ORG>
To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu <LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>
Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 13:00
Subject: Freezers for Flammable Chemical Storage
>Our department needs to replace a freezer that is used to store chemicals,
>particularly chemicals that are both flammable and corrosive. The freezer
>that we are replacing appears to be a standard large household freezer. I
>thought that we would need to purchase a freezer that was rated for
>flammable storage use, but I have been unable to find a manufacturer that
>makes one. Could this be because the chemicals would be stored well below
>their flash point in a freezer? Or have I just not found the right
>manufacturer?
>Julie O'Brien
>Chemist
>PCR, Inc. R&D
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:36:45 -0600
From: Linda Perez <liperez@NMSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Freezers for Flammable Chemical Storage
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Our department needs to replace a freezer that is used to store chemicals,
>particularly chemicals that are both flammable and corrosive. The freezer
>that we are replacing appears to be a standard large household freezer. I
>thought that we would need to purchase a freezer that was rated for
>flammable storage use, but I have been unable to find a manufacturer that
>makes one. Could this be because the chemicals would be stored well below
>their flash point in a freezer? Or have I just not found the right
>manufacturer?
They are definitely made. I have a Fisher brand in my office.
Linda
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Linda S. Perez NAOSMM member #991 since 1994
Coordinator Ask Me!
New Mexico State University
Biology Department (505)646-3915
Box 30001 MSC 3AF (505)382-6547 pager
Foster Hall Room 130 (505)646-5665 fax
Las Cruces, NM 88003 liperez@nmsu.edu
***** http://pc-biology.nmsu.edu/linda/coordina.htm *****
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:06:28 -0500
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Freezers for Flammable Chemical Storage
In-Reply-To: <000401bdca02$736e5d80$0100007f@rburns.ruetgers-nease.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:14 PM 8/17/98 -0400, you wrote:
>The Fisher Scientific catalog has refrigerators, refrigerator/freezers and
>freezers rated for flammable material storage.
>Rating for flammable material storage means that it will prevent an outside
>fire from igniting the contents, just like a flammable storage caninet.
Additionally, all the potential spark sources (thermostats, lights, etc.)
are moved to the outside of the box so that any flammable vapors generated
inside the box won't have an ignition source. Ask me about fruit flies,
ether and a Kenmore refrigerator sometime <eek>.
Fisher is a good source but any big scientific catalog (Baxter, VWR, etc.)
will have the information you need. You do not need "explosion-proof"
which is appropriate for environments where there are potentially explosive
atmospheres both inside and outside the box. "Lab-safe" is the trademark
I've seen used.
Be prepared - these things aren't cheap (>$1000 last time I checked). But
definitely worth your peace of mind :-)
Regards,
Debbie Decker, Health and Safety Specialist
EH&S TB30
UCDavis
One Shields Avenue
Davis, CA 95616-8586
(530)754-7964
(530)752-4527 (fax)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:42:47 -0400
From: Wesley Kolar <wkolar@PS.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Freezers for Flammable Chemical Storage
In-Reply-To: <199808171655.MAA03804@freenet5.afn.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
You haven't found the right manufacturer yet. There was a case a couple of
years back at a Canadian university were diethyl ether was stored in a
regular refrigerator. Over the weekend the power went out, and the
refrigerator filled with fumes. When the power came back on, a spark
(probably from the compressor motor) caused an explosion. Intrinsically
safe refrigerators have no internal wiring or spark sources, and should be
employed with flammable liquids.
Wes Kolar
UGA Environmental Safety
At 12:55 PM 8/17/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Our department needs to replace a freezer that is used to store chemicals,
>particularly chemicals that are both flammable and corrosive. The freezer
>that we are replacing appears to be a standard large household freezer. I
>thought that we would need to purchase a freezer that was rated for
>flammable storage use, but I have been unable to find a manufacturer that
>makes one. Could this be because the chemicals would be stored well below
>their flash point in a freezer? Or have I just not found the right
>manufacturer?
>Julie O'Brien
>Chemist
>PCR, Inc. R&D
Wes Kolar
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:03:46 -0500
From: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Freezers for Flammable Chemical Storage
In-Reply-To: <199808171655.MAA03804@freenet5.afn.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
We recently purchased a bunch o' flammable-liquid refrigerators and
freezers. Puffer Hubbardmakes a variety of "regular" lab fridges,
freezers, and combination units, as well as lab-safe (safe for storage fo
flammable liquids - no interior ignition sources) and explosion-proof
(intrinsically safe - no interior or exterior ignition sources) models. We
deemed Puffer Hubbard models best for our use. Their number is (800)
221-4201. The vendor we used is Sci-Metrics: (800) 231-2065.
Buena suerte,
JNR
>Our department needs to replace a freezer that is used to store chemicals,
>particularly chemicals that are both flammable and corrosive. The freezer
>that we are replacing appears to be a standard large household freezer. I
>thought that we would need to purchase a freezer that was rated for
>flammable storage use, but I have been unable to find a manufacturer that
>makes one. Could this be because the chemicals would be stored well below
>their flash point in a freezer? Or have I just not found the right
>manufacturer?
>Julie O'Brien
>Chemist
>PCR, Inc. R&D
Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu
"The opinions of Dr. Rubin do not necessarily represent those of the
Canadian government, with whom he has no affiliation."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:02:59 EDT
From: stefan <EHSADM5@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: ACS Boston
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hello to all ACS-Boston - bound NACHO members;
I realize a number of you will be enjoying breakfast Monday morning-
I may even stop by- but I hope you can leave the breakfast table and make it
to the General Session (over which I have been asked to preside)at the
Marriott Copley Place Hotel, starting at 8:30. I realize this is a plug,
since I also am giving the first paper. There's nothing worse than talking
to yourself in an empty room- maybe I'll bring my kids.
Hope to see some of you there!
Stefan Wawzyniecki, CIH, NRCC-CHO
University of Connecticut
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:23:20 +1200
From: John Downey <John.Downey@WAITAKERE.GOVT.NZ>
Subject: Re: Freezers for Flammable Chemical Storage
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Check your Cole-Parmer catalogue. They offer explosion-proof ones.
John Downey
Waitakere City Council
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wesley Kolar [SMTP:wkolar@PS.UGA.EDU]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 6:43 AM
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: Re: Freezers for Flammable Chemical Storage
> You haven't found the right manufacturer yet. There was a case a couple
> of
> years back at a Canadian university were diethyl ether was stored in a
> regular refrigerator. Over the weekend the power went out, and the
> refrigerator filled with fumes. When the power came back on, a spark
> (probably from the compressor motor) caused an explosion. Intrinsically
> safe refrigerators have no internal wiring or spark sources, and should be
> employed with flammable liquids.
> Wes Kolar
> UGA Environmental Safety
> At 12:55 PM 8/17/98 -0400, you wrote:
> >Our department needs to replace a freezer that is used to store
> chemicals,
> >particularly chemicals that are both flammable and corrosive. The
> freezer
> >that we are replacing appears to be a standard large household freezer.
> I
> >thought that we would need to purchase a freezer that was rated for
> >flammable storage use, but I have been unable to find a manufacturer that
> >makes one. Could this be because the chemicals would be stored well
> below
> >their flash point in a freezer? Or have I just not found the right
> >manufacturer?
> >
> >Julie O'Brien
> >Chemist
> >PCR, Inc. R&D
> >
> Wes Kolar
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:47:38 +0100
From: Anne Skinner <Anne.R.Skinner@WILLIAMS.EDU>
Subject: LD-50 -- Thanks!
Comments: To: SAFETY@LIST.UVM.EDU
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Many thanks to all who sent suggestions on demonstrating the concept of
LD-50. We should end up with some nicely-trained students!
Anne R. Skinner
/O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\
Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si
\O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/
Dr. Anne Skinner
Chemistry Department, Williams College
47 Lab Campus Drive
Williamstown, MA 01267
anne.r.skinner@williams.edu
Phone: (413) 597-2285
Fax No: (413) 597-4116
/O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\
Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si
\O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:08:23 -0400
From: debi Ingrao <debi@MARINELAB.SARASOTA.FL.US>
Organization: Mote Marine Laboratory
Subject: Re: Clip-art for Powerpoint
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I am working on a Safety handbook for our facility and would be
interested in the clip art you mention. Who is Mike Ahlers and how can
I reach him?
Thanks,
debi
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:15:22 -0700
From: Russel Shearer <shearerr@USFCA.EDU>
Subject: Effective replacement stain for Uranyl acetate in Microscopy
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all.
Does anyone know of an effective (non-radioactive, less toxic) replacement
stain for uranyl acetate. I want to get our microscopy labs free of the
stuff, but am coming across the "nothing works as well" problem.
Having little experience in microbiology, I'm not sure what the uranyl
acetate stains, but I hoped to tap the collective wisdom/experience of the
list for a good replacement.
**ALL** help is greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Russel Shearer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:41:47 -0500
Reply-To: ilerhd@emu.edu
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <ilerhd@inserv1.emu.edu>
From: "H. Darrell Iler" <ilerhd@EMU.EDU>
Organization: Eastern Mennonite University
Subject: EPA status
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Greetings:
I am new to this listserv and am probably going to ask questions
that have been asked many times. So sorry. I have just been given
the CHO duties for our science dept (no prior experience and no one
else around here with prior experience ). We are a small college
(1000 students) with a correspondingly small chemistry dept. We
generate very small quantities of chemical residue from the typical
Chem courses. However, we have stored residues that go back 30 years
or more. But the total accumulated quanity of residue is still
relatively small (I am not talking about barrels but small containers
(1-4L).
My questions are,
1. What is our EPA status? I am assuming from reading,as best I can,
the EPA : Notification of Regulated Waste Activity, that we are an
exempt facility. If we are exempt do we just ignore EPA with regards
to our residue and waste?
2. How does the stored residue from years gone by affect our status
and responsibilities to EPA?
3. Do we need an EPA number if we are an exempt facility?
4. When we have a licenced waste disposal company come in and take
away our accumulated wastes what are our reporting responsibilities
to EPA?
5. Is there a readable form of EPA's Notification of Regulated
Waste Activity? It would be nice to just be able to look at a chart
or outline, find a classification that matches your facility and have
it list your faclities EPA compliance responsibilities. Is there any
such thing?
Thanks in advance for any help.
H. Darrell Iler
Associate Professor of Chemistry
Eastern Mennonite University
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:54:07 -0400
From: Mark Yanchisin <mark@EHS.UFL.EDU>
Subject: Compressed gases requiring cabinets
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Greetings!
Does anyone have any references readily available for the hazardous gases
that would require storage in a compressed gas safety cabinet? I have lots
of info, but some of it is conflicting (understandable as some of it is from
manufacturers of the cabinets). I'm interested in a "definitive" list of
the gases which has escaped my search so far.
Any references, help, thoughts and/or comments will be appreciated. Please
respond to me personally. If I get some good info, I will condense and
summarize to the group in a week or so.
Thanks in advance!!
Mark Yanchisin
Coordinator for Clinic and Laboratory Safety Programs
Environmental Health and Safety
University of Florida
PO Box 112190, Building 1079
Gainesville, FL 32611-2190
352-392-1591
Mark@ehs.ufl.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:39:37 -0600
From: "Helen B. Gerhard" <hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM>
Subject: Re: Compressed gases requiring cabinets
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
You might check with your local Fire Marshall, hazmat unit.
Thanks!
Helen
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Yanchisin [SMTP:mark@EHS.UFL.EDU]
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 2:54 PM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Compressed gases requiring cabinets
Greetings!
Does anyone have any references readily available for the hazardous
gases
that would require storage in a compressed gas safety cabinet? I
have lots
of info, but some of it is conflicting (understandable as some of it
is from
manufacturers of the cabinets). I'm interested in a "definitive"
list of
the gases which has escaped my search so far.
Any references, help, thoughts and/or comments will be appreciated.
Please
respond to me personally. If I get some good info, I will condense
and
summarize to the group in a week or so.
Thanks in advance!!
Mark Yanchisin
Coordinator for Clinic and Laboratory Safety Programs
Environmental Health and Safety
University of Florida
PO Box 112190, Building 1079
Gainesville, FL 32611-2190
352-392-1591
Mark@ehs.ufl.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:40:20 -0500
From: Peter Ashbrook <hazpete@UIUC.EDU>
Subject: EPA status
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dr. Iler:
Responses to your question are interspersed in the copy of your message
below:
>I am new to this listserv and am probably going to ask questions
>that have been asked many times. So sorry. I have just been given
>the CHO duties for our science dept (no prior experience and no one
>else around here with prior experience ). We are a small college
>(1000 students) with a correspondingly small chemistry dept. We
>generate very small quantities of chemical residue from the typical
>Chem courses. However, we have stored residues that go back 30 years
>or more. But the total accumulated quanity of residue is still
>relatively small (I am not talking about barrels but small containers
>(1-4L).
>My questions are,
>1. What is our EPA status? I am assuming from reading,as best I can,
>the EPA : Notification of Regulated Waste Activity, that we are an
>exempt facility. If we are exempt do we just ignore EPA with regards
>to our residue and waste?
You are likely to be a "conditionally exempt very small quantity generator"
as defined by the US EPA. To be in this category, you would have to
generator less than 100 kg of hazardous wate per month and have no more
than 1000 kg of hazardous waste in storage at any one time.
There is one major exception to this definition and that involves acutely
hazardous wastes. If you generate 1 kg or more of acutely hazardous waste
in a month, you would be subject to the entire range of hazardous waste
regulations. Acutely hazardous wastes include things such as cyanides,
arsenic oxides, and carbon disulfide. I would not recommend ignoring EPA
even if you are exempt. What the designation means is that according to
the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act, you may legally dispose of your
waste down the drain or in the trash; however, local ordinances may prevent
you for doing so.
>2. How does the stored residue from years gone by affect our status
>and responsibilities to EPA?
It is counted in the amount you have in storage. It is likely that some of
the residues are not classified as hazardous waste. From what you have
descirbed of your situation, I would guess that if the residues are not
ignitable, corrosive, or reactive, they are not likely to be hazardous waste.
>3. Do we need an EPA number if we are an exempt facility?
No, not according to EPA. However, if you ship the waste to a permitted
hazardous waste disposal facility, you will need an EPA number.
>4. When we have a licenced waste disposal company come in and take
>away our accumulated wastes what are our reporting responsibilities
>to EPA?
It depends on your state. In Illinois, for example, conditionally exempt
very small quantity generators do not have to file an annual report.
>5. Is there a readable form of EPA's Notification of Regulated
>Waste Activity? It would be nice to just be able to look at a chart
>or outline, find a classification that matches your facility and have
>it list your faclities EPA compliance responsibilities. Is there any
>such thing?
You want the EPA publication titled, "Notification of Regulated Waste
Activity," which contains EPA Form 8700-12. My copy of the publication is
July 1990, but there may be a newer one. You can probably obtain a copy
from your state regulatory agency, or you could call the EPA Small Business
Ombudsman Hotline at 1/800-368-5888.
EPA put out a booklet in 1986 called, "Understanding the Small Quantity
Generator Hazardous Waste Rules: A Handbook for Small Business."
(EPA/530-SW-86-019). It was an excellent publication, but I don't know if
it is still available.
One last comment, you should probably request assistance from your state
agency if you can. State regulations are sometimes more stringent that
federal regulations.
>Thanks in advance for any help.
>H. Darrell Iler
>Associate Professor of Chemistry
>Eastern Mennonite University
Peter C. Ashbrook, CHMM, Assistant Director
Chemical Safety Section
Division of Environmental Health and Safety
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
217/244-9278
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:15:00 -0400
From: "Tayman, Tammy" <ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US>
Subject: Re: EPA status
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Does this mean that non ignitable, corrosive, or reactive wastes that
contain heavy metals, or other toxics, are not considered hazardous waste?!?
Tammy Tayman
----------
From: Peter Ashbrook
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: EPA status
Date: Thursday, August 20, 1998 9:40AM
>2. How does the stored residue from years gone by affect our status
>and responsibilities to EPA?
It is counted in the amount you have in storage. It is likely that some of
the residues are not classified as hazardous waste. From what you have
descirbed of your situation, I would guess that if the residues are not
ignitable, corrosive, or reactive, they are not likely to be hazardous
waste.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:44:38 -0400
From: "Norman, Randy" <RNorman@MABIOSERVICES.COM>
Subject: Re: EPA status
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Depending upon the meaning of the word "residues" in the original posting,
I would quickly add that, especially since we're talking about labs, there's
likely to be expired reagents covered by either the "P-list" at 261.33(e) or
the "U-list" at 261.33(f). There are also likely to be Toxicity
Characteristic wastes as set forth in 40 CFR 261.24. Also be wary for any
PCB (Aroclor and several other names) -containing wastes that may be
present: of course the PCB wastes are regulated under TSCA - another topic
we can get into if the need arises!
Our labs generate each of these types of hazardous wastes currently (and has
for the past 10 years as I know personally) and I have no reason to think
that we didn't for most of the previous 40 years of our history.
Maybe I missed the answer to the question of whether you are "exempt" I
PERSONALLY would suggest that first, it doesn't matter too much because you
still must use a licensed disposal unit for disposal. Even IF the disposal
company lets you leave the "generator ID number" section of the hazardous
waste manifest blank (or has you enter "SQG" or "CESQG"), they will probably
send the State their copies. So your State will probably come back to you. I
know for certain that Maryland makes EVERYBODY get an ID number and be
registered with them. Perhaps the key there is that States may pay more or
less attention and you need to consult them either directly or through
someone who will maintain your anonymity if you're concerned about that.
Note my personal opinion based on personal experience. Check it all out
first by reading the regs and consulting the regulators themselves or a
REPUTABLE disposal firm..
Randy Norman
Safety Manager
MA BioServices, Inc.
Rockville, MD 20850
Rnorman@mabioservices.com <mailto:Rnorman@mabioservices.com>
"Success is a journey, not a destination" - Ben Sweetland.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:24:07 -0500
From: Edwin Woolson <ewoolson@EPLBAS.COM>
Subject: PPE Requirements in the Lab and CHP's
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01BDCC2D.0B719670"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BDCC2D.0B719670
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We have a CHP in place in which we have defined part of the lab as =
requiring lab coats or aprons and safety glasses or glasses with =
side-shields. Part of our lab is used for the preparation of samples (eg =
using organic solvents while preparing or processing samples) while part =
of it is used for the instrumentation (GC, HPLC, GFAA) and desk space. =
We are having difficulty getting everyone to use PPE in the required =
areas. Some prefer aprons while others prefer lab coats. Gloves are =
supposed to be worn when using chemicals. In looking at alternative =
wording for a revision to our CHP, I have looked at a number of CHP's =
that are available over the internet, but have not seen this type of =
issue covered. They typically say when working with... =20
I would be very interested in how others handle the multiuse lab areas =
and their PPE requirements. Please respond to:
ewoolson@eplbas.com. After receiving comments, I will summarize them and =
post on the list-serve.
Thank you for your inputs.
Ed Woolson
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BDCC2D.0B719670
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>We have a CHP in place in which we =
have defined=20
part of the lab as requiring lab coats or aprons and safety glasses or =
glasses=20
with side-shields. Part of our lab is used for the preparation of =
samples (eg=20
using organic solvents while preparing or processing samples) while part =
of it=20
is used for the instrumentation (GC, HPLC, GFAA) and desk space. We are =
having=20
difficulty getting everyone to use PPE in the required areas. Some =
prefer aprons=20
while others prefer lab coats. Gloves are supposed to be worn when using =
chemicals. In looking at alternative wording for a revision to our CHP, =
I have=20
looked at a number of CHP's that are available over the internet, but =
have not=20
seen this type of issue covered. They typically say when working =
with...&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I would be very interested in how others handle the =
multiuse=20
lab areas and their PPE requirements.&nbsp; Please respond =
to:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A =
href=3D"mailto:ewoolson@eplbas.com">ewoolson@eplbas.com.</A>=20
After receiving comments, I will summarize them and post on the=20
list-serve.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thank you for your inputs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ed Woolson</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BDCC2D.0B719670--
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:22:56 -0500
Reply-To: okeeffeb@advancia.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Barbara O'Keeffe <okeeffeb@ADVANCIA.COM>
Organization: Advancia Corporation
Subject: Re: PPE Requirements in the Lab and CHP's
Comments: To: Edwin Woolson <ewoolson@EPLBAS.COM>
In-Reply-To: <001b01bdcc57$0c4b1470$5d01a8c0@cp13j.eplbas.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Date sent: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:24:07 -0500
Send reply to: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Edwin Woolson <ewoolson@EPLBAS.COM>
Subject: PPE Requirements in the Lab and CHP's
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> We have a CHP in place in which we have defined part of the lab as
> requiring lab coats or aprons and safety glasses or glasses with
> side-shields. Part of our lab is used for the preparation of samples (eg
> using organic solvents while preparing or processing samples) while part
> of it is used for the instrumentation (GC, HPLC, GFAA) and desk space. We
> are having difficulty getting everyone to use PPE in the required areas.
> Some prefer aprons while others prefer lab coats. Gloves are supposed to
> be worn when using chemicals. In looking at alternative wording for a
> revision to our CHP, I have looked at a number of CHP's that are available
> over the internet, but have not seen this type of issue covered. They
> typically say when working with...
First question - - why are you not using splash goggles? One
dropped testtube will have liquid flying and safety glasses WILL
NOT protect the eyes.
> I would be very interested in how others handle the multiuse lab areas and
> their PPE requirements. Please respond to: ewoolson@eplbas.com. After
> receiving comments, I will summarize them and post on the list-serve.
Have you tried tape on the floor (bright yellow) to demarcate the
area?
Why are you differentiating between lab coats and aprons?
Another thing to think about - - suppose you are working at a desk
and someone drops a 5 liter bottle of solvent on the floor nearby.
The person sitting at the desk is at risk of having flying liquid in
his/her eyes or down their back. PPE should address the hazard
found in the ROOM, not at each work station.
Barb
Barbara O'Keeffe
Advancia Corporation, 211 SW "A" Ave., Lawton, OK 73501
voice: 580-355-1471 fax: 580-357-9360
e-mail: okeeffeb@advancia.com http://www.advancia.com
***bits of wisdom, trivia & misplaced comments*
***are mine - - no one else wants them*
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:54:45 -0500
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: a safety question
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all:
This one came across this morning. I don't have any idea about the
relative safety of the proposal. Any input would be much appreciated.
Debbie
Debbie Decker
UCDavis EH&S
(530)754-7964
dmdecker@ucdavis.edu
>>I am a graduates student in the chemistry department. I have a question
>>that I've been having trouble finding an answer to and I hope you can
>>help me find an answer. I'm fixing to start doing research on a
>>project that involves placing a rather larger (20 kv) electric field on
>>certain non-polar solvents. My question is can solvents such as
>>chloroform, hexane and THF withstand these conditions without a violent
>>reaction? Do you happen to know where I could find the answer???
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:40:31 -0400
Reply-To: "Dr. Henry" <hboyter@cstone.net>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Henry Boyter Jr." <hboyter@CSTONE.NET>
Subject: Re: a safety question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Work like this has been done by EPA as a treatment method for
hazardous waste sites. See the EPA home page to look for more info.
Dr. Henry Boyter, Jr. Ph.D. Chemist
The opinions of Dr. Boyter are provided for informational
purposes only and should not be used as advice. No
warranty or expression of professionalism is implied.
***************
-----Original Message-----
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Date: Thursday, August 20, 1998 3:07 PM
Subject: a safety question
Hi all:
This one came across this morning. I don't have any idea about the
relative safety of the proposal. Any input would be much appreciated.
Debbie
Debbie Decker
UCDavis EH&S
(530)754-7964
dmdecker@ucdavis.edu
>>I am a graduates student in the chemistry department. I have a question
>>that I've been having trouble finding an answer to and I hope you can
>>help me find an answer. I'm fixing to start doing research on a
>>project that involves placing a rather larger (20 kv) electric field on
>>certain non-polar solvents. My question is can solvents such as
>>chloroform, hexane and THF withstand these conditions without a violent
>>reaction? Do you happen to know where I could find the answer???
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:42:59 -0600
From: Mark Smith <smithme@ALPHA.HENDRIX.EDU>
Subject: Re: a safety question
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Wow, my physics is a little weak but it sounds like you've got a pretty
good spark potential there with some very low flash points (hexane: -23 C,
THF: -14C)
I think flammability would be a very strong consideration.
>This one came across this morning. I don't have any idea about the
>relative safety of the proposal. Any input would be much appreciated.
>Debbie
>Debbie Decker
>UCDavis EH&S
>(530)754-7964
>dmdecker@ucdavis.edu
>>>I am a graduates student in the chemistry department. I have a question
>>>that I've been having trouble finding an answer to and I hope you can
>>>help me find an answer. I'm fixing to start doing research on a
>>>project that involves placing a rather larger (20 kv) electric field on
>>>certain non-polar solvents. My question is can solvents such as
>>>chloroform, hexane and THF withstand these conditions without a violent
>>>reaction? Do you happen to know where I could find the answer???
***************************************
MARK SMITH
HENDRIX COLLEGE CHEMISTRY
LABORATORY COORDINATOR
CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER
***************************************
1600 Washington Ave
Conway, AR 72032
501-450-3812
Fax : 501-450-3829
***************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:58:30 -0400
From: Jennifer Butrym <jbutrym@APV.COM>
Subject: Re: EPA STATUS
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Greetings to you too!
I am also new to this listserv and share much of your same concerns (small
department, new to position, little training, little management support).
However, my job is in an industrial setting. If my answers are not
entirely correct, I trust that our colleagues on this listserv will correct
me.
First, I strongly recommend attending LAB SAFETY WORKSHOP's four day lab
safety course. You can email Jim Kauffman at labsafe@aol.com for more
info. I recently attended it and it was very helpful in terms of "getting
the basics". This doesn't mean you won't have some research to do on your
own in terms of calling local agencies, etc. But it definately helps.
Most of the attendees are from the educational field, so you'll feel right
at home.
Please note, these answers are just what I have recently learned myself.
You should still do some double checking before you set up actual plans
(chem hyg plan, emerg action plan, disposal plan, etc.) The book called
PRUDENT PRACTICES IN THE LABORATORY is excellent. I think it costs about
$70.00. You can order it from Lab Safety Workshop (Jim's company - not for
profit).
My comments are:
1. What is our EPA status? I am assuming from reading,as best I can,
the EPA : Notification of Regulated Waste Activity, that we are an
exempt facility. If we are exempt do we just ignore EPA with regards
to our residue and waste?
YOU PROBABLY ARE EXEMPT, BUT YOU SHOULD GET A CERTIFICATE OR SOME SORT OF
PAPERWORK FROM THE EPA/DEPT OF HEALTH/STATE GOV THAT ACTUALLY SAYS YOU ARE
EXEMPT. WE ARE ALSO "EXEMPT" BUT WE STILL HAVE TO FOLLOW OSHA'S LAB
STANDARD. EXEMPTION JUST SEEMS TO GET YOU OUT OF ADDITIONAL PAPERWORK.
YOU STILL HAVE TO SET UP YOUR LABS AS PER THE STATE AND FEDERAL
REGULATIONS.
2. How does the stored residue from years gone by affect our status
and responsibilities to EPA?
I RECOMMEND DISPOSING OF EVERYTHING YOU DO NOT NEED. (MY PERSONAL CRITERIA
IS ANYTHING THAT HASN'T BEEN USED WITHIN 10 YEARS AND IS OLDER THAN ME -
I'M 26 - IS PROBABLY NOT NEEDED ANYMORE.) YOU CAN DISPOSE OF IT OVER THE
COURSE OF SEVERAL YEARS. IF YOU HAVE A LOT TO GET RID OF AND YOU CHOOSE TO
GET RID OF IT ALL AT ONCE, YOU WON'T BE "EXEMPT" THAT PARTICULAR YEAR. SO
IT IS BEST TO SPREAD OUT YOUR DISPOSAL IF YOU CAN. I'D GET EVERYTHING
READY TO GO AND THEN DISPOSE OF WHAT YOU CAN LITTLE BY LITTLE - WRITE AN
ACTION PLAN SO IF YOU LEAVE YOUR POSITION, THE JOB IS STILL FINISHED.
3. Do we need an EPA number if we are an exempt facility?
CALL YOUR STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH - THEY SHOULD KNOW THE EPA RULES.
(MASSACHUSETTS DID ANYWAY...) THEN YOU CAN ASK ALL SORTS OF QUESTIONS
WITHOUT BEING CONCERNED ABOUT ALERTING THE EPA TO COME TO YOUR FACILITY.
THERE IS ALSO AN EPA WEBSITE - USE A SEARCH ENGINE LIKE YAHOO TO FIND IT.
AGAIN, I RECOMMEND DOING THIS AT HOME OR THE LIBRARY RATHER THAN FROM WORK
TO AVOID BEING "TAGGED" FOR INSPECTION.
4. When we have a licenced waste disposal company come in and take
away our accumulated wastes what are our reporting responsibilities
to EPA?
AS BEST AS I KNOW, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR KEEPING RECORDS THAT THE EPA CAN
AUDIT AT WILL. BUT IF YOU ARE EXEMPT, YOU DON'T NEED TO REPORT ON YOUR
DISPOSAL ACTIVITIES - JUST BE ABLE TO REPORT ON THEM IF THEY ASK. (MY
FEELING IS THIS: WRITE UP A REPORT AND FILE IT. IF THEY EVER ASK (OR IF
THERE'S EVEY ANY INQUIRY/LAW SUIT/ETC.) YOUR BUTT IS COVERED. IT JUST
MAKES GOOD COMMON SENSE.
5. Is there a readable form of EPA's Notification of Regulated
Waste Activity? It would be nice to just be able to look at a chart
or outline, find a classification that matches your facility and have
it list your faclities EPA compliance responsibilities. Is there any
such thing?
ASK JIM KAUFFMAN - LABSAFE@AOL.COM
HE'S WRITTEN UP THINGS LIKE "A KINDER GENTLER LAB STANDARD" TO MAKE THE
OSHA THING EASIER TO READ. HE MAY KNOW OF A SIMILAR FORM OF THE EPA RULES.
Jenny Butrym
Lab Manager
APV Homogenizer Group
Wilmington, MA
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:25:22 -0500
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: PPE Requirements in the Lab and CHP's
In-Reply-To: <199808201726.MAA18078@saluki-mail.siu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:22 PM 8/20/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> I would be very interested in how others handle the multiuse lab areas and
>> their PPE requirements. Please respond to: ewoolson@eplbas.com. After
>> receiving comments, I will summarize them and post on the list-serve.
>Another thing to think about - - suppose you are working at a desk
>and someone drops a 5 liter bottle of solvent on the floor nearby.
>The person sitting at the desk is at risk of having flying liquid in
>his/her eyes or down their back. PPE should address the hazard
>found in the ROOM, not at each work station.
This is probably not applicable to this situation but it is illustrative of
how weird stuff happens sometimes. Two individuals were working to
innoculate a horse (we have a vet school and lots of animal research on
campus - there's animals all over the place!). About 10-20 feet away but
inside the corral, were two bystanders - not part of the innoculation. The
horse handlers had on proper PPE - gloves, safety glasses, boots, etc. The
other two did not - they were not participating. The horse kicked and
knocked the syringe out of the handler's hand. It flew through the air to
lodge itself in the eye of one of the bystanders! Wild! He was rushed to
the hospital and his eye was saved with minimal damage. Needless to say,
PPE requirements have tightened up for animal handlers and bystanders.
As Barb pointed out, PPE should address the highest hazard found in the
room (or in this case, corral). To do less is to invite trouble.
Regards,
Debbie M. Decker, Health and Safety Specialist
UCDavis - Environmental Health & Safety
(530)754-7964
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:05:01 -0500
Reply-To: msturgeon@mriresearch.org
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Mike Sturgeon <msturgeon@MRIRESEARCH.ORG>
Organization: MRI
Subject: Re: PPE Requirements in the Lab and CHP's
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Debbie-
Would that horse be available on Tuesday nights for my darts team?
Mike Sturgeon
Safety Officer
Midwest Research Institute
Kansas City, Missouri
Debbie Decker wrote:
> At 12:22 PM 8/20/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >> I would be very interested in how others handle the multiuse lab areas and
> >> their PPE requirements. Please respond to: ewoolson@eplbas.com. After
> >> receiving comments, I will summarize them and post on the list-serve.
> >
> >Another thing to think about - - suppose you are working at a desk
> >and someone drops a 5 liter bottle of solvent on the floor nearby.
> >The person sitting at the desk is at risk of having flying liquid in
> >his/her eyes or down their back. PPE should address the hazard
> >found in the ROOM, not at each work station.
> This is probably not applicable to this situation but it is illustrative of
> how weird stuff happens sometimes. Two individuals were working to
> innoculate a horse (we have a vet school and lots of animal research on
> campus - there's animals all over the place!). About 10-20 feet away but
> inside the corral, were two bystanders - not part of the innoculation. The
> horse handlers had on proper PPE - gloves, safety glasses, boots, etc. The
> other two did not - they were not participating. The horse kicked and
> knocked the syringe out of the handler's hand. It flew through the air to
> lodge itself in the eye of one of the bystanders! Wild! He was rushed to
> the hospital and his eye was saved with minimal damage. Needless to say,
> PPE requirements have tightened up for animal handlers and bystanders.
> As Barb pointed out, PPE should address the highest hazard found in the
> room (or in this case, corral). To do less is to invite trouble.
> Regards,
> Debbie M. Decker, Health and Safety Specialist
> UCDavis - Environmental Health & Safety
> (530)754-7964
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 08:26:14 -0500
From: Peter Ashbrook <hazpete@UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: EPA status
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Tammy was correct in calling me on the table on this one. The eight RCRA
heavy metals are also of concern in determining whether Dr. Iler's residues
are hazardous. These heavy metals are: arsenic, barium, cadmium, chromium,
lead, mercury, selenium, and silver. The concentrations vary for each one;
however, if the container is labeled with one of these metals, it probably
is regulated.
In response to my response, Tammy Tayman asked:
>Does this mean that non ignitable, corrosive, or reactive wastes that
>contain heavy metals, or other toxics, are not considered hazardous waste?!?
>Tammy Tayman
>----------
>From: Peter Ashbrook
>To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
>Subject: EPA status
>Date: Thursday, August 20, 1998 9:40AM
>>2. How does the stored residue from years gone by affect our status
>>and responsibilities to EPA?
>It is counted in the amount you have in storage. It is likely that some of
>the residues are not classified as hazardous waste. From what you have
>descirbed of your situation, I would guess that if the residues are not
>ignitable, corrosive, or reactive, they are not likely to be hazardous
>waste.
Peter C. Ashbrook, CHMM, Assistant Director
Chemical Safety Section
Division of Environmental Health and Safety
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
217/244-9278
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:44:04 -0400
From: "Norman, Randy" <RNorman@MABIOSERVICES.COM>
Subject: Re: EPA status
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
The same section of regulation (40 CFR 261.24) also includes 32 toxic
chemicals which make a waste regulated as "Toxicity Characteristic" if
present above the ppm levels listed for each.
It seems a lot of folks suffer from "CFR-phobia" (I know for a fact it's
widespread outside of the Lab Safety field). Considering our scientific
backgrounds, I hope we each take the time to read the regulations for
ourselves too! We have each other to debate and clarify the finer points of
what we find there, but I personally worry about what's missed when we
generalize (not that I don't generalize sometimes, too). I can't encourage
everyone strongly enough to READ the pertinent regulations- Federal, State
and Local!
Randy Norman
Safety Manager
MA BioServices, Inc.
Rockville, MD 20850
Mail to: rnorman@mabioservices.com <mailto:rnroman@mabioservices.com>
"Success is a journey, not a destination" - Ben Sweetland
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Ashbrook [SMTP:hazpete@UIUC.EDU]
Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 9:26 AM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: EPA status
Tammy was correct in calling me on the table on this one. The eight
RCRA heavy metals are also of concern in determining whether Dr. Iler's
residues are hazardous. These heavy metals are: arsenic, barium, cadmium,
chromium, lead, mercury, selenium, and silver. The concentrations vary for
each one; however, if the container is labeled with one of these metals, it
probably is regulated.
In response to my response, Tammy Tayman asked:
>Does this mean that non ignitable, corrosive, or reactive
wastes that
>contain heavy metals, or other toxics, are not considered
hazardous waste?!?
>
>Tammy Tayman
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:00:44 -0400
From: Patricia DePra <pdepra@FOMA.WSC.MASS.EDU>
Subject: Hood Questions
Hello,
What are the standards for hood air flow? I am in a small department, and
I teach organic chemistry. To my knowledge, our hoods have not been
checked against any safety standards. Who regulates this -- OSHA or EPA?
What is the best reference for information on hoods?
I'd like to look into replacing and/or adding on to our hoods in the
organic lab, which is woefully inadequate in this regard. I know that I
will need to apply for outside funding. Where are the best resources
for pricing such an intensive project? (We currently have 4 hoods along
one side of the lab, and I'd like to have hoods at the actual workstations.)
Also, a humble question for some political advice: Our facilities and
operations head has no chemical jor safety experience whatsoever. He's
mostly concerned about other issues across campus, and has been difficult
to work with at times. (Example: we came back from spring break last year
to find that our gas lines in the labs were locked out and we had not been
notified nor given keys.) I am officially 'lab safety coordinator', although
I've had no more training than what I received during 5 years at DuPont.
When they insisted that hood alarms be installed as an energy saving device
(they only go off if the sashes are left up and the room lights are off)
I asked them to look into the type of hoods we have. If the hoods are set
to pull the same amount of air no matter the sash height, this is a waste
of money. And, I believe that we do not have variable flow hoods.
Basically, I was ignored, and berated for the tone of a memo that I wrote
which included a plea to not spend money on these alarms. So, now we have
hood alarms, but no plan to test the hoods to see if they actually work
sufficiently.
I have also been told not to make waves, since I'm two years away from
tenure and we're in the middle of a contract negotiation.
Advice? (anyone want my resume? oops, did I say that?)
I hope that you don't think this question inappropriate, since the safety
issues are so intertwined with politics here, and I want to be able to
do positive things for safety without having negative repercussions for
my career.
Thanks,
--Patricia DePra
p.s. -- For labs which absolutely require a hood, I have students work in
pairs, and we spread out to use an adjoining lab. So, I have been careful
with regard to student exposure, even replacing labs which raised concerns
for me.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:31:47 -0400
Reply-To: fullert@bc.edu
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Thomas Fuller <fullert@BC.EDU>
Subject: Re: NACHO Breakfast
In-Reply-To: <ba1de638.35d245eb@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Jim,
I plan on being there. See you then.
Tom Fuller
On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:48:26 EDT Labsafe@AOL.COM wrote:
> In a message dated 98-08-12 12:02:10 EDT, you write:
> << What/Where is the Nacho Breakfast for sure... I've had a hard time
> decifering the details from all the postings to Labsafety. >>
> The NACHO Breakfast is going to be held in the Back Bay Hilton at
> 7AM on Monday, August 24th. The Council Committee on Chemical
> Safety meets at 8:30AM. That gives us plenty of time for a leisurely
> breakfast and then adjourn to the meeting.
> If folks will let me know that they plan to attend, I will have a blok of
> tables
> set aside. .. jim
----------------------
Thomas Fuller
fullert@bc.edu
Boston College
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:44:45 -0400
From: Madelyn Miller <mmiller@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hood Questions
In-Reply-To: <98082113004453@foma.wsc.mass.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Greetings,
On Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:00:44 -0400 Patricia DePra
<pdepra@FOMA.WSC.MASS.EDU> wrote:
> Hello,
> What are the standards for hood air flow?
Check out the lab safety standard 29 CFR 1910.1450, Appendix A, section
C,4.(g) ventilation. It states that the face velocity should be
between 60 - 100. This has since been updated to 80 to 120. See
Prudent practices in the Laboratory, page 178.
> I'd like to look into replacing and/or adding on to our hoods in the
> organic lab, which is woefully inadequate in this regard. I
Remember students aren't covered under OSHA. Is this a teaching lab?
>
> When they insisted that hood alarms be installed as an energy saving device
> (they only go off if the sashes are left up and the room lights are off)
> I asked them to look into the type of hoods we have. If the hoods are set
> to pull the same amount of air no matter the sash height, this is a waste
> of money. And, I believe that we do not have variable flow hoods.
Your right on this one! Constant velocity hoods have openings at the
top of the sash so if it is closed the air comes in the top. However
low flow alarms would tell the person in front of the hood that they
are not being protected. Also recommended in 1910.1450 see C, 4, (b)
Hoods.
> Advice? (anyone want my resume? oops, did I say that?)
The only thing you can do is CYA. You can do two things. Request that
who ever you are having a problem with put in writing the reasons
they don't want to implement an IMPORTANT safety issue. If anything
happens it will be their neck and it will be worse if they have
knowledge and refused to fix a problem. Two write you own memo saying
you disagree with the topic so you have documentation of your opinion
in the event that things do go to court your covered. My former boss
used to go into Deans/Directors offices and said if you don't do XYZ
"your going to jail, would you like me to send you candy or fruit?"
They emptied their pockets for him.
Good luck!
-------------------------------------
Madelyn Miller
Chemical Safety Specialist,CCHO
Environmental Health & Safety
Carnegie Mellon University
mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:14:17 -0600
From: "Helen B. Gerhard" <hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM>
Subject: Re: Hood Questions
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
While it is true that OSHA does not protect the students, if the students
develop symptoms or illnesses due to exposures, they can (Have and will)
file civil suits against the school. It is entirely possible that the
costs incurred due to legal proceedings, punitive damages, and other costs
would be significantly larger than the cost of updating the hoods.
Additionally, the employees (lab instructors) who are in the room ARE
protected. I say keep fighting for it. Chemical Safety should NOT be
based only on what the REGULATIONS REQUIRE. Rather, they should be based on
reasonably minimizing risk to all affected.
Thanks!
Helen
-----Original Message-----
From: Madelyn Miller [SMTP:mmiller@ANDREW.CMU.EDU]
Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 12:45 PM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: Hood Questions
Greetings,
On Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:00:44 -0400 Patricia DePra
<pdepra@FOMA.WSC.MASS.EDU> wrote:
> Hello,
> What are the standards for hood air flow?
Check out the lab safety standard 29 CFR 1910.1450, Appendix A,
section
C,4.(g) ventilation. It states that the face velocity should be
between 60 - 100. This has since been updated to 80 to 120. See
Prudent practices in the Laboratory, page 178.
>
> I'd like to look into replacing and/or adding on to our hoods in
the
> organic lab, which is woefully inadequate in this regard. I
Remember students aren't covered under OSHA. Is this a teaching
lab?
>
>
> When they insisted that hood alarms be installed as an energy
saving device
> (they only go off if the sashes are left up and the room lights
are off)
> I asked them to look into the type of hoods we have. If the hoods
are set
> to pull the same amount of air no matter the sash height, this is
a waste
> of money. And, I believe that we do not have variable flow hoods.
Your right on this one! Constant velocity hoods have openings at the
top of the sash so if it is closed the air comes in the top.
However
low flow alarms would tell the person in front of the hood that they
are not being protected. Also recommended in 1910.1450 see C, 4,
(b)
Hoods.
>
> Advice? (anyone want my resume? oops, did I say that?)
The only thing you can do is CYA. You can do two things. Request
that
who ever you are having a problem with put in writing the reasons
they don't want to implement an IMPORTANT safety issue. If anything
happens it will be their neck and it will be worse if they have
knowledge and refused to fix a problem. Two write you own memo
saying
you disagree with the topic so you have documentation of your
opinion
in the event that things do go to court your covered. My former
boss
used to go into Deans/Directors offices and said if you don't do XYZ
"your going to jail, would you like me to send you candy or fruit?"
They emptied their pockets for him.
Good luck!
-------------------------------------
Madelyn Miller
Chemical Safety Specialist,CCHO
Environmental Health & Safety
Carnegie Mellon University
mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:41:00 -0400
From: "Tayman, Tammy" <ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US>
Subject: Re: Hood Questions
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Actually, in most civil litigation (ie the students suing the
college/university), the courts (read: juries) focus on compliance with
"reasonable and prudent" practices, not adherance to regulations. They
don't tend to care whether you are OSHA compliant, they care whether your
level of safety, etc., is up to the same standards as other institutions.
If they can find ONE exception, they will nail you! The fact that OSHA
doesn't cover students makes it difficult to use that as an arguement.
However, the fact that the courts don't care about such exceptions is
sometimes a better way to approach it.
Tammy Tayman
----------
From: Helen B. Gerhard
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: Hood Questions
Date: Friday, August 21, 1998 3:14PM
While it is true that OSHA does not protect the students, if the students
develop symptoms or illnesses due to exposures, they can (Have and will)
file civil suits against the school. It is entirely possible that the
costs incurred due to legal proceedings, punitive damages, and other costs
would be significantly larger than the cost of updating the hoods.
Additionally, the employees (lab instructors) who are in the room ARE
protected. I say keep fighting for it. Chemical Safety should NOT be
based only on what the REGULATIONS REQUIRE. Rather, they should be based on
reasonably minimizing risk to all affected.
Thanks!
Helen
-----Original Message-----
From: Madelyn Miller [SMTP:mmiller@ANDREW.CMU.EDU]
Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 12:45 PM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: Hood Questions
Greetings,
On Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:00:44 -0400 Patricia DePra
<pdepra@FOMA.WSC.MASS.EDU> wrote:
> Hello,
> What are the standards for hood air flow?
Check out the lab safety standard 29 CFR 1910.1450, Appendix A,
section
C,4.(g) ventilation. It states that the face velocity should be
between 60 - 100. This has since been updated to 80 to 120. See
Prudent practices in the Laboratory, page 178.
>
> I'd like to look into replacing and/or adding on to our hoods in
the
> organic lab, which is woefully inadequate in this regard. I
Remember students aren't covered under OSHA. Is this a teaching
lab?
>
>
> When they insisted that hood alarms be installed as an energy
saving device
> (they only go off if the sashes are left up and the room lights
are off)
> I asked them to look into the type of hoods we have. If the hoods
are set
> to pull the same amount of air no matter the sash height, this is
a waste
> of money. And, I believe that we do not have variable flow hoods.
Your right on this one! Constant velocity hoods have openings at the
top of the sash so if it is closed the air comes in the top.
However
low flow alarms would tell the person in front of the hood that they
are not being protected. Also recommended in 1910.1450 see C, 4,
(b)
Hoods.
>
> Advice? (anyone want my resume? oops, did I say that?)
The only thing you can do is CYA. You can do two things. Request
that
who ever you are having a problem with put in writing the reasons
they don't want to implement an IMPORTANT safety issue. If anything
happens it will be their neck and it will be worse if they have
knowledge and refused to fix a problem. Two write you own memo
saying
you disagree with the topic so you have documentation of your
opinion
in the event that things do go to court your covered. My former
boss
used to go into Deans/Directors offices and said if you don't do XYZ
"your going to jail, would you like me to send you candy or fruit?"
They emptied their pockets for him.
Good luck!
-------------------------------------
Madelyn Miller
Chemical Safety Specialist,CCHO
Environmental Health & Safety
Carnegie Mellon University
mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:49:51 -0700
From: Kay Davis <davisk@ALVERNO.EDU>
Organization: Alverno College Physical Science Department
Subject: liability for students and employees
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
My brother, a judge, had told me the same thing that Tammy Tayman
wrote. A college is responsible for taking any precautions that a
reasonably prudent person would. The legal principle is probably the
source of the title "Prudent Principles...".
Kay Davis Associate Professor of Chemistry Alverno College
davisk@alverno.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:42:31 EDT
From: "Roger H. Postley" <RPostley@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hood Questions
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 8/21/98 1:30:28 PM, you wrote: Organic hood problems...
<<Patricia DePra <pdepra@FOMA.WSC.MASS.ED>>
Patricia-
Contact the science department at Berea College, Berea, KY. I am sorry but I
don't have their e-mail address, but there is one... While attending a week-
long safety workshop there a few years ago, every lab station in their organic
lab was a self-contained glass fume hood complete with heat reclaimation and
other controls. If nothing else, I am certain they can give you valid and
pertainent info.
I hope this helps.
Roger H. Postley
President, Chem-Safe, Inc. (secondary school science safety consulting)
Retired 28 year veteran high school chemistry teacher
"There is NEVER a reason to teach science unsafely!"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 08:39:08 EDT
From: "Patricia A. Jones" <Jonespatti@AOL.COM>
Subject: Acid disposal
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Greetings,
I need advice. I have a small acid cabinet in a room I just moved into. I
found a gallon plastic bottle, like a syrup bottle, labeled con. sulfuric
acid. The liquid inside the bottle is dark brown or black, not the clear
viscous liquid I would expect. I think I will leave it for the professional
waste disposal personnel. Is this wise? My real concern is a bottle of con.
nitric that the Styrofoam outside container is turning black. Which indicates
to me that the acid is escaping the bottle probably through vaporization. The
only lab accident that I witnessed was a bottle of nitric that allegedly
turned green before exploding in the lab aids hand. Should I leave the bottle
alone?
Thanks
Pat Jones
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:28:24 -0400
From: Mary Ann Solstad <msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET>
Subject: Re: Hood Questions
In-Reply-To: <98082113004453@foma.wsc.mass.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I've been reading the posts on this thread. Not mentioned so far:
1) How do you measure air flow. Invest in a velometer--NOT the cheapest
you can find. Measure at 6 or more places across the hood face in a 1'
grid; keep sash at normal working height. This meas. in in ft/min. If
it falls below 80ft/min or above 110, asjust sash accordingly. Multiply by
face area to get how much you are pulling out. That will be in ft3/min.
Note: Face velocity too high yields back eddies.
2) Work practices are very important. Not too much traffic. No fast
moves. No heads in hood. All work at least 6" back from face; mark a
yellow line to mark this. Limit storage or size (bulk) of equipment in the
hood.
3) Get yourself to a lab safety workshop. Jim Kaufman gives a great one.
Subscribe to "Chemical Health and Safety", part of membership of DivCHAS
Mary Ann
At 01:00 PM 8/21/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello,
>What are the standards for hood air flow? I am in a small department, and
>I teach organic chemistry. To my knowledge, our hoods have not been
>checked against any safety standards. Who regulates this -- OSHA or EPA?
>What is the best reference for information on hoods?
>I'd like to look into replacing and/or adding on to our hoods in the
>organic lab, which is woefully inadequate in this regard. I know that I
>will need to apply for outside funding. Where are the best resources
>for pricing such an intensive project? (We currently have 4 hoods along
>one side of the lab, and I'd like to have hoods at the actual workstations.)
>Also, a humble question for some political advice: Our facilities and
>operations head has no chemical jor safety experience whatsoever. He's
>mostly concerned about other issues across campus, and has been difficult
>to work with at times. (Example: we came back from spring break last year
>to find that our gas lines in the labs were locked out and we had not been
>notified nor given keys.) I am officially 'lab safety coordinator', although
>I've had no more training than what I received during 5 years at DuPont.
>When they insisted that hood alarms be installed as an energy saving device
>(they only go off if the sashes are left up and the room lights are off)
>I asked them to look into the type of hoods we have. If the hoods are set
>to pull the same amount of air no matter the sash height, this is a waste
>of money. And, I believe that we do not have variable flow hoods.
>Basically, I was ignored, and berated for the tone of a memo that I wrote
>which included a plea to not spend money on these alarms. So, now we have
>hood alarms, but no plan to test the hoods to see if they actually work
>sufficiently.
>I have also been told not to make waves, since I'm two years away from
>tenure and we're in the middle of a contract negotiation.
>Advice? (anyone want my resume? oops, did I say that?)
>I hope that you don't think this question inappropriate, since the safety
>issues are so intertwined with politics here, and I want to be able to
>do positive things for safety without having negative repercussions for
>my career.
>Thanks,
>--Patricia DePra
>p.s. -- For labs which absolutely require a hood, I have students work in
>pairs, and we spread out to use an adjoining lab. So, I have been careful
>with regard to student exposure, even replacing labs which raised concerns
>for me.
Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety
SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude
16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness
781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application
Authority
DivCHAS Chair, ACS
msolstad@mediaone.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 17:26:07 EDT
From: "Patricia A. Jones" <Jonespatti@AOL.COM>
Subject: Acid disposal
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
I am resending this message because I have a return message from LABSAFETY-L
which indicated it was not sent. Please forgive any confusion.
Greetings,
I need advice. I have a small acid cabinet in a room I just moved into. I
found a gallon plastic bottle, like a syrup bottle, labeled con. sulfuric
acid. The liquid inside the bottle is dark brown or black, not the clear
viscous liquid I would expect. I think I will leave it for the professional
waste disposal personnel. Is this wise? My real concern is a bottle of con.
nitric that the Styrofoam outside container is turning black. Which indicates
to me that the acid is escaping the bottle probably through vaporization. The
only lab accident that I witnessed was a bottle of nitric that allegedly
turned green before exploding in the lab aids hand. Should I leave the bottle
alone?
Thanks
Pat Jones
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:43:00 -0000
From: "L. James Stock III" <34EMQ6K@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Acid disposal
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
The conc. Sulfuric acid is probably oxidizing the cap liner. I would put
in in a fume hood and with the sash down and wearing lab coat and goggles
I would open the bottle. I would then throw away that cap and replace it
with a new one. I would then package it up for disposal. It is just too
much work to neutralize conc. Sulfuric acid at 36Normal. 36moles/liter x
2.5liter=90moles. Sodium hydroxide is 40g/mole=3600 grams of Sodium
hydroxide. Disposal costs less than neutralization and is easier and
safer. Why waste your time.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:33:08 -0400
From: Howard Spencer <SpencerH@ABSECON.GSTPA.COM>
Subject: Re: Compressed gases requiring cabinets - My suggestions
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Just returning from vacation, so maybe this answer was posted. I suggest
you look at the BOCA building code under section "H" for hazardous
ocupancies. I believe that H-7 refers to labs and discusses fabrication
facilities for computer chip manufacture. It has been a while since I
looked but I think ther are sample gas lists requiring cabinets. I
would also talk to mMatheson gas they have a couple of good books that
provide non-regulatory guidance.
> ----------
> From: Mark Yanchisin[SMTP:mark@EHS.UFL.EDU]
> Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List
> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 4:54 PM
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: Compressed gases requiring cabinets
> Greetings!
> Does anyone have any references readily available for the hazardous
> gases
> that would require storage in a compressed gas safety cabinet? I have
> lots
> of info, but some of it is conflicting (understandable as some of it
> is from
> manufacturers of the cabinets). I'm interested in a "definitive" list
> of
> the gases which has escaped my search so far.
> Any references, help, thoughts and/or comments will be appreciated.
> Please
> respond to me personally. If I get some good info, I will condense
> and
> summarize to the group in a week or so.
> Thanks in advance!!
> Mark Yanchisin
> Coordinator for Clinic and Laboratory Safety Programs
> Environmental Health and Safety
> University of Florida
> PO Box 112190, Building 1079
> Gainesville, FL 32611-2190
> 352-392-1591
> Mark@ehs.ufl.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:56:31 -0600
Reply-To: sharpdc@mail.auburn.edu
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: D Sharpe <sharpdc@MAIL.AUBURN.EDU>
Organization: Auburn University
Subject: Re: PPE Requirements in the Lab and CHP's
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------C11B8F62FFE486D63321BA88"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------C11B8F62FFE486D63321BA88
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
We recently wrote a CHP requiring pants shoes (not sandals) and safety
glasses and lab coats. My problem is with shorts. Many men think they
can wear shorts with lab coats over them. Do other universities allow
shorts in labs?
--------------C11B8F62FFE486D63321BA88
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for D Sharpe
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf"
begin: vcard
fn: D Sharpe
n: Sharpe;D
org: Auburn University
adr;dom: ;;313 Leach Science Building;Auburn;Al;36849;
email;internet: sharpdc@mail.auburn.edu
title: University Safety Officer
note: University Safety Officer, 313 Leach Science Center, ph (334)844-4870 fax (334)844-4640
x-mozilla-cpt: ;0
x-mozilla-html: FALSE
version: 2.1
end: vcard
--------------C11B8F62FFE486D63321BA88--
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:02:23 -0500
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Hood Questions -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
** High Priority **
Hello.
So much of what you are saying sounds all too familiar. When I took my first position here the stock room was a nightmare and the organic lab was a joke. It took time to get things to a point where I felt comfortable with the safety level in the area.
My advice is to come up with a proposal to improve things with a time line. Don't expect that your institution can implement things over night(although they should). Continue with your evaluation of experiments and substitution. I was lucky to have an organic chemist who was will to work with me on this matter. We too, had only four hoods along one wall of the lab for 24 students to work with.
I was not a professor dealing with tenure issues. I was and still am a staff type who has a contract that comes up for renewal on a yearly basis. I decided that I would have to say some politically unpleasant things to get the situation changed in order to live with myself. I found my allies and I formulated my improvement plans and marched ahead. Sounds like you too, have a healthy concern for your students. The trick is getting others to embrace this notion. Litigation discussions often helped me on this score. If you can identify the risk manager for your facility, they would be a good ally in your battle.
The outcome of my long story, we have a beautiful new science building with an orgo lab that has banks of hoods for each student. The hoods are clear so you can see down through them and keep track of the students.
Good luck. If you would like more specifics on funding and construction type stuff, give me a call or e-mail. For what its worth, Janeen.
University of New England
207-283-0170 x 2446
JLaPierre@mailbox.une.edu
My opinions, not those of UNE.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:23:00 -0400
From: "Tayman, Tammy" <ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US>
Subject: See-thru Hood Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
I recently had the opportunity to visit the newly rebuilt science building
at Bowdoin College in Maine. It was wonderful. Their organic labs also had
see-thru hoods for the students, at the lab stations. The added advantage
of having them back to back, with clear backs, was that the students could
see through to what the others were doing. And the instructor could see
what everyone was doing. It all seemed very nice.
However, I'm wondering about all that glass. It seems as if they would be a
real problem to keep clean. And what about etching? Have those of you out
there with this nifty new item had any problems with this? We are in the
very early stages (first meeting on Friday) of planning the rebuild/redesign
of our two science buildings and I want to do as much as I can to make the
new areas as up to date and SAFE as possible!
Tammy Tayman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:33:47 -0700
From: Michael Ahler
<Ahler_Michael_D/cpslo_employee1@POLYMAIL.CPUNIX.CALPOLY.EDU>
Subject: Acid disposal
Comments: To: Jonespatti@AOL.COM
In-Reply-To: <3edd5e58.35debbed@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Acid"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Greetings,
> I need advice. I have a small acid cabinet in a room I just moved
into. I
> found a gallon plastic bottle, like a syrup bottle, labeled con.
sulfuric
> acid. The liquid inside the bottle is dark brown or black, not the
clear
> viscous liquid I would expect.
At this point you should come to a dead stop with this problem, and
consider the follwing. If you don't feel comfortable moving this
bottle, don't touch it. I can see several things that should raise your
sense of caution here. 1) The label doesn't agree with the
appearance of the material. 2) You don't know the age of this
material or THE AGE OF THE BOTTLE (pardon my CAPS, but this could be
critical). 3) There is a common glassware cleaning mixture which
contains concentrated sulfuric acid and chromic acid . This mixture is
green when new and ugly brown, and often less viscous than new acid,
when well used. I have often seen this mixture badly labeled only as
"concentrated sulfuric acid", the maker of the mixture having ignored
the chromium (VI) therein. The chromium is usually much less than 1%
of the mixture. If there is chromium in this liquid, the disposal of
it is much more involved than neutralization of the acid.
4) The age of the bottle is unknown, and it is a plastic bottle.
Plastic ages. Plastic ages more quickly outside in the sunlight than
inside in the dark. Plastic ages more quickly when in contact with an
aggressive chemical (concentrated sulfuric acid and especially chromic
acid). I'm looking at possibilities here. Whoever moves this bottle
needs to be ready for the plastic to fail (bottle develop a crack or
disintegrate substantially) when it is moved.
I think I will leave it for the professional
> waste disposal personnel. Is this wise?
Yes.
My real concern is a bottle of con.
> nitric that the Styrofoam outside container is turning black. Which
indicates
> to me that the acid is escaping the bottle probably through
vaporization. The
> only lab accident that I witnessed was a bottle of nitric that
allegedly
> turned green before exploding in the lab aids hand. Should I leave
the bottle
> alone?
Again, yes. Unless you really, really need that bottle of nitric acid
(glass or plastic?) have someone who is prepared ( much equipment and
experience) to handle the potential sudden release of this material come
and take it away.
And, an incidental question: How much distance is there between this
acid cabinet and the nearest emergency shower and eyewash?
> Thanks
> Pat Jones
If you have already managed to handle this yourself without remarkable
incident, your luck is apparently still holding.
Be reassured that you are asking the right questions.
Thanks.
Michael Ahler, CHO
Risk Management
Cal Poly
San Luis Obispo, California
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:59:25 -0400
From: Julie Kniesly <jaknie01@GWISE.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hood Questions
Just adding my 2 cents to this subject on a couple of issues that have
not be addressed already . . .
>>> Patricia DePra <pdepra@FOMA.WSC.MASS.EDU> 08/21 1:00 PM >>>
>>What are the standards for hood air flow?
You can also reference the ANSI/AIHA Consensus Standard "American
national Standard for Laboratory Ventilaiton" (ANSI/AIHA Z9.5-1992).
This document does not carry the force of law, as does OSHA or EPA, but
would very likely be refered to as a generally recognized standard of
care. Exhaust discharge velocities, stack height, recirculation of room
exhaust, hood capture velocities, supply air, and other important lab
ventialtion issues are addressed. ANSI recommends a face velocity of
80-100 feet per minute with no individual reading more than 20% off the
average of all readings. Readings should be taken over the face of the
hood, as previously described. And I would also stress the importance
of buying an air flow instrument as accurate as possible!
>>What is the best reference for information on hoods?
The ANSI document is an excillent resource for lab ventilation in
general, including fume hoods. There is also a book available through
ACGIH titled "Laboratory Fume Hoods: A User*s Manual " ($49). I have
found this book to present a very good basic text of fume hood theory,
function and design. It is geared toward the non-Industrial Hygienist
so should be of use to those of you with lab safety as an auxillary
duty. It can be ordered on-line from their web site.
http://www.acgih.org/catalog/index.htm
If you have a need for a more detailed, engineering oriented text
(perhaps for any Engineers on staff?), contact me privately and I'll
make another recommendation.
>>I'd like to look into replacing and/or adding on to our hoods in the
organic lab
Before adding hoods or ventilated work stations to an existing system
it is absolutely VITAL that an Industrial Hygienist or Ventilation
Engineer evaluate the capacity of the system. I have seen too many labs
where hoods have been added as the need arose without ensuring that
adequate air flow could be provided. When this happens all hoods on the
system operate at a deficiency. You also need to assess the supply air
system and its capacity. Exhausting air out of a space at a rate much
greater than the air supply results in lab doors that are difficult to
open as well as "starving" the fan, making it operate at less than its
designed flow.
Adding fume hoods is a very complex issue that cannot be discussed
thoroughly on this forum. If you have specific questions feel free to
contact me privately.
>>Also, a humble question for some political advice: Our facilities
and operations head has no chemical jor safety experience whatsoever.
<snip> . . . and has been difficult to work with at times. <snip> . . .
So, now we have hood alarms, but no plan to test the hoods to see if
they actually work sufficiently.
This is in DIRECT violation of the OSHA standard. Under Section (e)
(Chemical Hygiene Plan) it states:
"(e) (3) (iii) A requirement that fume hoods and other protective
equipment are functioning properly and specific measures that shall be
taken to ensure proper and adequate performance of such equipment"
As others have pointed out, students are not covered under OSHA but
faculty and staff are. But perhaps even more importantly, a liability
lawsuit from the parent of a student who just *percieves* that there may
have been an injury related to a poorly funcitoning fume hood is many
orders of magnitude more costly than a slap on the wrist by OSHA. For
an even more frightening scenario imagine a female student who becomes
pregnant and miscarries. . . Whether it's related to a chemical
exposure or, more likely, not the potential for real money damages is
tremendous. And this doesn't even address the bad press and its
repercussions that would accompany a lawsuit.
>>I have also been told not to make waves, since I'm two years away
from tenure and we're in the middle of a contract negotiation.
For this exact reason many Universities require that already tenured
faculty address these types of issues. It is not adventatious for the
University or for you to be placed in a situation such as this with such
an obvious conflict of interest. (Not to imply that you would hedge on
your recommendations, as you are very dedicated to protecting the health
of your students.) Your department should look into assigning a tenured
faculty member to make the "official" recommendation based on the
information that you provide.
Julie Kniesly, CIH
Laboratory Safety Specialist
University of Louisville
jaknie01@gwise.louisville.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:00:55 -0700
From: Michael Ahler
<Ahler_Michael_D/cpslo_employee1@POLYMAIL.CPUNIX.CALPOLY.EDU>
Subject: See-thru Hood Question
Comments: To: ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US
In-Reply-To: <199808241526.KAA32276@saluki-mail.siu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="See-thru"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Tammy, et.al.
Another question occurs to me about these
"see-through-the-back-and-sides" hoods. If these are really hoods, with
fan driven exhaust to the outside of the building, then all the hood
questions I have been reading recently on this list are the right ones
to be asking.
But,
I have seen a number of clear sided ( glass or plexiglas) hoods which
use a fan and a filter system ( usually activated charcoal is involved)
mounted on top of the hood. The filtered effluent from the hood is
vented into the room. This all works just fine as long as the
absorbent capacity of the filter has not been achieved.
So, there may be additional issues to deal with if the hoods being
contemplated are of the recycled-filtered-effluent type.
The physical description of the hoods in the original posting matches
many of these filtered effluent, bench-top hoods I have seen, and I just
knew you needed another thing to think about.
Thanks.
Michael Ahler, CHO
Risk Management
Cal Poly
San Luis Obispo, California
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:12:25 -0500
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Hood Questions -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
** High Priority **
I am re-sending this message because I received a message from the server say it was undeliverable. Please disregard if you received the original. Janeen
Hello.
So much of what you are saying sounds all too familiar. When I took my first position here the stock room was a nightmare and the organic lab was a joke. It took time to get things to a point where I felt comfortable with the safety level in the area.
My advice is to come up with a proposal to improve things with a time line. Don't expect that your institution can implement things over night(although they should). Continue with your evaluation of experiments and substitution. I was lucky to have an organic chemist who was will to work with me on this matter. We too, had only four hoods along one wall of the lab for 24 students to work with.
I was not a professor dealing with tenure issues. I was and still am a staff type who has a contract that comes up for renewal on a yearly basis. I decided that I would have to say some politically unpleasant things to get the situation changed in order to live with myself. I found my allies and I formulated my improvement plans and marched ahead. Sounds like you too, have a healthy concern for your students. The trick is getting others to embrace this notion. Litigation discussions often helped me on this score. If you can identify the risk manager for your facility, they would be a good ally in your battle.
The outcome of my long story, we have a beautiful new science building with an orgo lab that has banks of hoods for each student. The hoods are clear so you can see down through them and keep track of the students.
Good luck. If you would like more specifics on funding and construction type stuff, give me a call or e-mail. For what its worth, Janeen.
University of New England
207-283-0170 x 2446
JLaPierre@mailbox.une.edu
My opinions, not those of UNE.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:30:01 -0400
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: PPE Requirements in the Lab and CHP's
Comments: To: sharpdc@mail.auburn.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In our industrial R&D lab, the rule is "no knees". This applies to
everyone- no skirts above the knee, no shorts above the knee.
-----Original Message-----
From: D Sharpe <sharpdc@mail.auburn.edu>
To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu <LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>
Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 11:16
Subject: Re: PPE Requirements in the Lab and CHP's
>We recently wrote a CHP requiring pants shoes (not sandals) and safety
>glasses and lab coats. My problem is with shorts. Many men think they
>can wear shorts with lab coats over them. Do other universities allow
>shorts in labs?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:34:19 -0400
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: Hood Questions -Reply
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I've found that if one member of the group is not available, I've gotten the
"undeliverable" message. I think you'll find that most members got the
message. I know I did!
-----Original Message-----
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu <LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>
Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 13:13
Subject: Hood Questions -Reply
>** High Priority **
>I am re-sending this message because I received a message from the server
say it was undeliverable. Please disregard if you received the original.
Janeen
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:26:34 -0500
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: a safety question (thanks!)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Many thanks to all of you who replied to my high voltage/flammable solvents
question. The asker was quite impressed :-)
Cheers,
Deb.
Debbie Decker, Health and Safety Specialist
EH&S TB30
UCDavis
One Shields Avenue
Davis, CA 95616-8586
(530)754-7964
(530)752-4527 (fax)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:43:00 -0400
From: "Tayman, Tammy" <ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US>
Subject: FW: liability for students and employees
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
I have been somewhat corrected by a coworker on my previous post on this
subject.
Tammy
----------
Yes, but...
the actual phrase is "actions which a reasonable and prudent person, *with
your level of knowledge*, would take in a similar situation."
A chemist would be expected to be more aware of hazards that a non-chemist.
A bar-tender might let a patron smell vodka, but a chemist would have to
know what lists aqueous ethanol is on and whether it is safe to smell.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:00:47 EDT
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: NACHO Breakfast in Boston
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Hi NACHO Members...
Well it's true... NACHOs are the breakfast of CHOice!
We had 15 members together this morning at the Back Bay Hilton for the NACHO
breakfast. Good food, good conversation, and of course, a bowl of nachos on
the table. The latter took a bit of convincing to get the head waiter to
agree!
Dennis Mathiason from Moorehead State in Minnesota told us about a new ACS
publication called "Chemistry". It will be free to members and student
affiliates.
The magazine will come out about four times during the academic year and
contain a safety column. Articles are being requested. If you are
interested, talk to Dennis at dmathia@djam.com.
Carl Gottschall, editor of Chemical Health and Safety Magazine stopped by to
visit. He would like to invite contributions to the magazine. Talk to Carl
at cgotall@aol.com
One new member at the meeting was Leslie MacKay from the Eagleson Institute.
For those not familiar with the Eagleson Institute, they promote biosafety
with training courses, videos, and other materials. Contact Leslie at
eagleson@ime.net
(This is actually the email for Mary Ann Sondrini, the executive director of
the institute. But I can't find Leslie's email address)
Many of the group adjorned to the meeting of the Council Committee on Chemical
Safety.
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSI.
Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG
**********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:00:49 EDT
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: New CHO Book
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
"Living with the Laboratory Standard: a guide for chemical hygiene officers"
has just been published by the ACS. It contains the standard itself (without
appendices), discussion of the requirements, a glossary, references, a list of
federal regulations affecting laboratories, and forms and descriptions for
compliance. The 48-page, 8x11 booklet lists for $25.00 including shipping and
handling.
NACHO members can save 30% by ordering from LSI.
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSI.
Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG
**********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:00:45 EDT
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Hood Book
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-08-24 13:03:44 EDT, you write:
<< The ANSI document is an excillent resource for lab ventilation in
general, including fume hoods. There is also a book available through
ACGIH titled "Laboratory Fume Hoods: A User*s Manual " ($49). I have
found this book to present a very good basic text of fume hood theory,
function and design. >>
JAK.... This book is (if we're talking about the same one, published by John
Wiley. LSI members can save 10% on the purchase price.
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSI.
Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG
**********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:03:53 EDT
From: Martin Besant <MBesant@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 21 Aug 1998 to 22 Aug 1998
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
To Patricia Jones
My understanding of the SULFURIC acid problem is dehydration of polyethylene
leaving carbon as a product.. I have observed that all storage of conc
sulfuric in polyethylene results in this blackening. Otheer than appearance
and other distracting factors, its not a problem
Marty Besant
West Seneca aEast Sr HS
a suburb of Buffalo NY
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:36:09 EDT
From: "Patricia A. Jones" <Jonespatti@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 21 Aug 1998 to 22 Aug 1998
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Thank you for your prompt reply on the sulfuric acid.
Pat Jones
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:09:16 -0500
From: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lab safety class
In-Reply-To: <f82b9c62.35e1feb5@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Good day,
Just thought I'd announce that the first (as far as I know) semester-long,
3-credit-hr, lab-safety class at UT-Austin has enough students enrolled to
make it happen, which is somewhat of a surprise on the first try.
Laboratory Safety & Chemical Hygiene starts this Thursday, with instructors
from UT, Hunstman Chemical, Motorola, EORM, Austin FD, and Austin EMS.
I'll be having all students join the list to see what gems they can pick
up, so keep it clean! Seriously, I've gotten a lot of useful information
here and I'd like them to partake as well. If nothing else, they'll be
able to see that there quite a few folks out there who really do care about
this stuff.
Cheers,
JNR
Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu
"The opinions of Dr. Rubin do not necessarily represent those of the
Canadian government, with whom he has no affiliation."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 00:29:19 -0700
From: Michael Ahler
<Ahler_Michael_D/cpslo_employee1@POLYMAIL.CPUNIX.CALPOLY.EDU>
Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 21 Aug 1998 to 22 Aug 1998
Comments: To: MBesant@AOL.COM
In-Reply-To: <b3350c6e.35e342da@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Re:"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> To Patricia Jones
> My understanding of the SULFURIC acid problem is dehydration of
polyethylene
> leaving carbon as a product.. I have observed that all storage of conc
> sulfuric in polyethylene results in this blackening. Otheer than
appearance
> and other distracting factors, its not a problem
> Marty Besant
> West Seneca aEast Sr HS
> a suburb of Buffalo NY
If the problem with sulfuric acid in polyethylene is one of dehydrating
the plastic of which the container is constructed, there is more than an
aesthetic issue here. The acid is slowly changing/consuming the
bottle which contains it. Eventually this genie will create several
paths (weak spots) of escape from the bottle.
Let's say you discover an old (how old?) plastic bottle full of black
sulfuric acid. Do you really want to discover how close to physical
failure this bottle is by carrying it around? This could be a problem.
Please be aware that older the plastic bottle and the more aggressive
are its contents, the closer to disintegration it becomes.
From what I have heard so far, I see a reasonable chance that this
plastic bottle of dark sulfuric acid could literally come apart in your
hands.
Patricia,
If you are indeed the present owner of this bottle, I genuinely suggest
you avoid moving it just now. E-mail me with a telephone number if you
want to talk further about how to approach this.
Thanks.
Michael Ahler, CHO
mahler@calpoly.edu
Risk Management
Cal Poly
San Luis Obispo,California
Cal Poly.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:08:22 -0300
From: "Aziz M. Abu-khalaf" <amkhalaf@KSU.EDU.SA>
Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 21 Aug 1998 to 22 Aug 1998
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We faced a problem like this where sulfuric acid in plastic containers was
stored for a long time, later we discovered a leaking from the containers.
We observed that sulfuric acid found its way out through the containers,
particularly from the bottom.
best regards.
At 12:29 =D5 26.08.98 -0700, you wrote:
>> To Patricia Jones
>> My understanding of the SULFURIC acid problem is dehydration of
>polyethylene
>> leaving carbon as a product.. I have observed that all storage of conc
>> sulfuric in polyethylene results in this blackening. Otheer than
>appearance
>> and other distracting factors, its not a problem
>> Marty Besant
>> West Seneca aEast Sr HS
>> a suburb of Buffalo NY
>>
>If the problem with sulfuric acid in polyethylene is one of dehydrating
>the plastic of which the container is constructed, there is more than an
>aesthetic issue here. The acid is slowly changing/consuming the
>bottle which contains it. Eventually this genie will create several
>paths (weak spots) of escape from the bottle.
>Let's say you discover an old (how old?) plastic bottle full of black
>sulfuric acid. Do you really want to discover how close to physical
>failure this bottle is by carrying it around? This could be a problem.
>Please be aware that older the plastic bottle and the more aggressive
>are its contents, the closer to disintegration it becomes.
>>From what I have heard so far, I see a reasonable chance that this
>plastic bottle of dark sulfuric acid could literally come apart in your
>hands.
>Patricia,
>If you are indeed the present owner of this bottle, I genuinely suggest
>you avoid moving it just now. E-mail me with a telephone number if you
>want to talk further about how to approach this.
>Thanks.
>Michael Ahler, CHO
>mahler@calpoly.edu
>Risk Management
>Cal Poly
>San Luis Obispo,California
>Cal Poly.
Aziz M. Abu-Khalaf
Chemical Engineering Department
King Saud University
PO Box 800
Riyadh 11421, Saudi Arabia
Tel:(009661)4676894
Fax:(009661)4678770
amkhalaf@ksu.edu.sa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:21:24 -0300
From: "Aziz M. Abu-khalaf" <amkhalaf@KSU.EDU.SA>
Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 21 Aug 1998 to 22 Aug 1998
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:00:53
>To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
>From: "Aziz M. Abu-khalaf" <amkhalaf@sun1.ksu.edu.sa>
>Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 21 Aug 1998 to 22 Aug 1998
>We faced a problem like this where sulfuric acid in plastic containers was
stored for a long time, later we discovered a leaking from the containers.
We observed that sulfuric acid found its way out through the containers,
particularly from the bottom.
>best regards.
>
>At 12:29 =D5 26.08.98 -0700, you wrote:
>>> To Patricia Jones
>>> My understanding of the SULFURIC acid problem is dehydration of
>>polyethylene
>>> leaving carbon as a product.. I have observed that all storage of conc
>>> sulfuric in polyethylene results in this blackening. Otheer than
>>appearance
>>> and other distracting factors, its not a problem
>>> Marty Besant
>>> West Seneca aEast Sr HS
>>> a suburb of Buffalo NY
>>>
>>If the problem with sulfuric acid in polyethylene is one of dehydrating
>>the plastic of which the container is constructed, there is more than an
>>aesthetic issue here. The acid is slowly changing/consuming the
>>bottle which contains it. Eventually this genie will create several
>>paths (weak spots) of escape from the bottle.
>>Let's say you discover an old (how old?) plastic bottle full of black
>>sulfuric acid. Do you really want to discover how close to physical
>>failure this bottle is by carrying it around? This could be a problem.
>>Please be aware that older the plastic bottle and the more aggressive
>>are its contents, the closer to disintegration it becomes.
>>
>>>From what I have heard so far, I see a reasonable chance that this
>>plastic bottle of dark sulfuric acid could literally come apart in your
>>hands.
>>
>>Patricia,
>>If you are indeed the present owner of this bottle, I genuinely suggest
>>you avoid moving it just now. E-mail me with a telephone number if you
>>want to talk further about how to approach this.
>>Thanks.
>>Michael Ahler, CHO
>>mahler@calpoly.edu
>>Risk Management
>>Cal Poly
>>San Luis Obispo,California
>>Cal Poly.
>>
Aziz M. Abu-Khalaf
Chemical Engineering Department
King Saud University
PO Box 800
Riyadh 11421, Saudi Arabia
Tel:(009661)4676894
Fax:(009661)4678770
amkhalaf@ksu.edu.sa
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:49:22 -0500
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lab safety class -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Bravo!!
It is very encouraging to hear another university offering a class dedicated to safety. The fact that it is worth 3 credits will undoubtedly help reinforce its value to the students. Congratulations!!
Would you be willing to e-mail a copy of the syllabus for the course. I would like to pass it on to the undergraduate school for consideration. It is always helpful to be able to say "this is what other institutions are doing".
Thanks, and good luck!
Janeen Lapierre, CHO-COM
University of New England
JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:50:00 -0400
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: New CHO Book
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
HI Jim,
Can I order one on-line?
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu <LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>
Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 8:03 PM
Subject: New CHO Book
>"Living with the Laboratory Standard: a guide for chemical hygiene
officers"
>has just been published by the ACS. It contains the standard itself
(without
>appendices), discussion of the requirements, a glossary, references, a list
of
>federal regulations affecting laboratories, and forms and descriptions for
>compliance. The 48-page, 8x11 booklet lists for $25.00 including shipping
and
>handling.
>NACHO members can save 30% by ordering from LSI.
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
>organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
>important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
>Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
>schedule, and membership information are available on request.
> The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSI.
> Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG
**********************************************************************
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:22:54 -0600
From: "Linda S. Perez" <liperez@NMSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lab safety class
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Good day,
>Just thought I'd announce that the first (as far as I know) semester-long,
>3-credit-hr, lab-safety class at UT-Austin has enough students enrolled to
>make it happen, which is somewhat of a surprise on the first try.
>Laboratory Safety & Chemical Hygiene starts this Thursday, with instructors
>from UT, Hunstman Chemical, Motorola, EORM, Austin FD, and Austin EMS.
>I'll be having all students join the list to see what gems they can pick
>up, so keep it clean! Seriously, I've gotten a lot of useful information
>here and I'd like them to partake as well. If nothing else, they'll be
>able to see that there quite a few folks out there who really do care about
>this stuff.
I would also appreciate a copy of the syllabus. You can fax or mail it to
me or attempt to attach it. Please let me know what format it is in if you
attach it. Thanks in advance.
Linda
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Linda S. Perez NAOSMM member #991 since 1994
Coordinator Ask Me!
New Mexico State University
Biology Department (505)646-3915
Box 30001 MSC 3AF (505)382-6547 pager
Foster Hall Room 130 (505)646-5665 fax
Las Cruces, NM 88003 liperez@nmsu.edu
***** http://pc-biology.nmsu.edu/linda/coordina.htm *****
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:34:33 -0700
From: Teresa Robertson <Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Organization: CSU Bakersfield
Subject: Re: Lab safety class
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Can you attach the syllabus to an e-mail for all?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:39:25 -0500
From: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lab safety class
In-Reply-To: <msg237346.thr-4c14e1a7.0@firstclass1.csubak.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I'm hesitant to send attachments to the list, but I've been sending
attachments to all who ask.
JNR
>Can you attach the syllabus to an e-mail for all?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:59:49 -0600
From: "Frank H. Lankewicz" <flankewi@SEWANEE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lab safety class
In-Reply-To: <v0311070cb209f893b028@[128.83.215.83]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Please send me a copy.
Thank You
I'm hesitant to send attachments to the list, but I've been sending
>attachments to all who ask.
>JNR
>>Can you attach the syllabus to an e-mail for all?
______________________________
Frank H. Lankewicz
EHS Director/Chemical Hygiene Officer
The University of the South
735 University Avenue
Sewanee, TN 37383-1000
Ph: 931/598-1916
Fax: 931/598-1745
email: flankewi@sewanee.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:39:27 -0500
From: "Dr. Linda A. Swihart" <swihart@PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: high pressure hydrogenation
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello and HELP, please.
Need your input on safeguarding and devising sufficient and efficient
administrative controls for homemade high pressure hydrogenation apparatus.
We have somewhere in the neighborhood of 250 graduate students in our chem
dept, that is to say there's all kinds of research going on here and it's a
little rough keeping track of all of it/them even after a year (I'm half
time with Chem, half time with EH&S).
A new professor has a grad student who today submitted a request to our
instrument shop for help with constructing a hydrogenation reactor which
will operate at up to 100 atm. I have no other info yet on the nature of
the research nor the quantities/volumes involved, but we'll assume a fairly
small (it won't seem small if it ruptures) actual reaction vessel size of a
half liter.
When the instrumentation shop director informed the student that this type
of procedure was to be confined to the "bomb rooms" in the basement of the
building, the student quickly withdrew his request, informed the director
that "So-and-so's group does it all the time in their lab," and implied
that he'd do it himself. I have looked for the professor and for the
student and failing to find them have sent email and started to do a little
looking around for information.
We have no written policy addressing this. I could probably get the dept
head involved but I'd rather bully them with good arguments and hard data,
and then I'll tackle the labs of Professor So-and-so if it's true that
they've got something like it set up in their group.
You who have the time, please send me your policies, your good arguments,
your horror stories, and if you've got it, the URL of the CHP manual that
addresses this issue specifically.
THANK YOU,
Linda
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:36:19 EDT
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: New CHO Book
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Bob ... Yes ... jim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 06:43:15 EDT
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Lab safety class
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-08-26 17:01:52 EDT, you write:
<< Please send me a copy >>
JAK... Please send personal requests directly to the individual rather than to
the whole list. Thanks. .... jim kaufman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 06:40:22 EDT
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Lab safety class
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-08-26 12:43:42 EDT, you write:
<< Can you attach the syllabus to an e-mail for all? >>
JAK... Please do not do this. It seems to destroy the email systems for folks
with some versions of Eudora. If possible, put it in the body of your message
or send it individually to those requesting. ... jim kaufman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 06:48:22 EDT
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: New CHO Book
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-08-26 19:37:44 EDT, you write:
<< Bob ... Yes ... jim >>
JAK... See how hard this is! I immediadiately did it myself.
My error. Sorry. I'll try harder. .... jim kaufman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:58:41 -0400
From: Dan Hurley <dhurley@WFUBMC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lab safety class
In-Reply-To: <v03007800b20a354e78bc@[152.97.76.173]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Please send me a copy
Thank you
At 03:59 PM 8/26/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>Please send me a copy.
>Thank You
>
>
>
>I'm hesitant to send attachments to the list, but I've been sending
>>attachments to all who ask.
>>
>>JNR
>>
>>>Can you attach the syllabus to an e-mail for all?
>
>______________________________
>Frank H. Lankewicz
>EHS Director/Chemical Hygiene Officer
>The University of the South
>735 University Avenue
>Sewanee, TN 37383-1000
>Ph: 931/598-1916
>Fax: 931/598-1745
>email: flankewi@sewanee.edu
>
Daniel J. Hurley, CIH
Sr. Industrial Hygienist
Wake Forest University School of Medicine
910-777-3078
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:55:24 -0400
From: Paula Ortiz <portiz@WSCC.EDU>
Subject: Lab Safety Course
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear NACHO groups,
I want to know if any of you have a syllabus for a general laboratory
safety course that can be offered at the Community College level? If you
have such a syllabus, will you please send me a copy of it? You can fax it
to me at (740)-373-7496.
Thanks for your help!
Paula Ortiz
Science Lab Tech
Washington State Community College
710 Colegate Dr.
Marietta, Ohio 45750
phone : (740)-374-8716 x679
fax : (740)-373-7496
email: portiz@wscc.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:03:28 -0400
From: "Norman, Randy" <RNorman@MABIOSERVICES.COM>
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Course
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
ME TOO! I have had sporadic discussions with a local Community College
regarding just such a course and perhaps having this might help me to
convince them to move forward.
Fax me at (301) 738-2362 please!
Thanks!!
Randy Norman
Safety Manager
MA BioServices, Inc.
Rockville, MD 20850
e-mail to: rnorman@mabioservices.com <mailto:Rnorman@mabioservices.com>
"Success is a journey, not a destination" - Ben Sweetland
-----Original Message-----
From: Paula Ortiz [SMTP:portiz@WSCC.EDU]
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 1998 10:55 AM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Lab Safety Course
Dear NACHO groups,
I want to know if any of you have a syllabus for a general
laboratory
safety course that can be offered at the Community College level?
If you
have such a syllabus, will you please send me a copy of it? You can
fax it
to me at (740)-373-7496.
Thanks for your help!
Paula Ortiz
Science Lab Tech
Washington State Community College
710 Colegate Dr.
Marietta, Ohio 45750
phone : (740)-374-8716 x679
fax : (740)-373-7496
email: portiz@wscc.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:30:42 EDT
From: "Roger H. Postley" <RPostley@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Lab safety class
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Congrats... on the Lab Safety class!
I do a six hour 'cram course' here in Lexington, KY for public school
teachers. Would it be possible to get the syllabus (or course outline) to
assist me in instructing others?
Thank you.
Roger H. Postley
President, Chem-Safe, Inc.
(A retired 28 year veteran of H.S. chemistry teaching)
"It is NEVER acceptable to teach science unsafely!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:54:22 -0500
From: Harry Elston <helston@FGI.NET>
Comments: To: jharvey@MCC.EDU, safety@list.uvm.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:55 AM 8/27/98 -0400, you wrote:
> One of our instructors has designed a distance learning biology lab
>which involves sending chemicals home with students so they can do the
>necessary experiments there. There is also talk of doing some chemistry
>labs via distance learning and sending chemicals home with the students.
>The whole idea of sending college-owned chemicals out of the controlled
>environment of our labs and into the chaos of students' homes disturbs me.
>Besides the obvious hazards to the students and their families and
>consequent liability problems, I see problems involving transport of the
>chemicals and disposal of them after the experiment is completed. I brought
>these concerns up to the administration and was, of course, given the job
>of formulating policy guidelines. Any suggestions?
> Pardon any cross-posting, but I need all the help I can get.
Ahh. yes, Mott Community College....Brings back a lot of memories :) (I
lived near Flint for the first 22 years of my life!)
But, to your question, Jerry. My first, knee-jerk reaction is "not only
no, but hell no." Even if the chemicals are "house hold" chemicals (such as
bleach or baking soda), become regulated under OSHA and EPA once they are
brought into the laboratory. Taking things "out of the lab" would also
mean, in my opinion they are being transported thus bringing in other
regulatory nightmares such as transportation of hazardous materials. Now,
I know that students aren't covered by OSHA, but there's that "prudent
practice" idea which boils down to the idea that it's the college's
responsibility to keep students safe!
First opinion, without knowing all the details, is that this is a WAY BAD
IDEA, and I would be very heistant in letting this occur. Personally, my
policy guideline right now would be, "find something else to do which
didn't involve chemicals."
Harry Elston
Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO
Chemical Hygiene Officer
Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety
Opinions are mine, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah
"God made all those stars out of nothin'. He just
'pfffft' and there they were."
-Larry the Cucumber, Veggie Tales
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:44:51 -0600
From: "Helen B. Gerhard" <hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
1. Plan experiments to use materials that can be obtained at home (e.g.
Red Cabbage Juice, vinegar, baking soda works well for showing acid/base
concepts)
2. Send instructions on how to perform the experiment. This is not
unlike what is done with ACS's Wonder Science. In that case, the kids are
told NOT to do the experiments without parents being present. I think that
if the experimenter is a college student, parents don't need to be there.
By taking this approach, chemicals are not being removed from the lab. The
concept is not any different from a person purchasing a chemistry set from a
store or obtaining a kid's experiment book (found at any local library).
The difference is that the instructor will require the lab write ups to be
turned in for grades.
Thanks!
Helen
-----Original Message-----
From: Harry Elston [SMTP:helston@FGI.NET]
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 1998 9:54 AM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject:
At 08:55 AM 8/27/98 -0400, you wrote:
> One of our instructors has designed a distance learning
biology lab
>which involves sending chemicals home with students so they can do
the
>necessary experiments there. There is also talk of doing some
chemistry
>labs via distance learning and sending chemicals home with the
students.
>The whole idea of sending college-owned chemicals out of the
controlled
>environment of our labs and into the chaos of students' homes
disturbs me.
>Besides the obvious hazards to the students and their families and
>consequent liability problems, I see problems involving transport
of the
>chemicals and disposal of them after the experiment is completed. I
brought
>these concerns up to the administration and was, of course, given
the job
>of formulating policy guidelines. Any suggestions?
> Pardon any cross-posting, but I need all the help I can get.
Ahh. yes, Mott Community College....Brings back a lot of memories :)
(I
lived near Flint for the first 22 years of my life!)
But, to your question, Jerry. My first, knee-jerk reaction is "not
only
no, but hell no." Even if the chemicals are "house hold" chemicals
(such as
bleach or baking soda), become regulated under OSHA and EPA once
they are
brought into the laboratory. Taking things "out of the lab" would
also
mean, in my opinion they are being transported thus bringing in
other
regulatory nightmares such as transportation of hazardous materials.
Now,
I know that students aren't covered by OSHA, but there's that
"prudent
practice" idea which boils down to the idea that it's the college's
responsibility to keep students safe!
First opinion, without knowing all the details, is that this is a
WAY BAD
IDEA, and I would be very heistant in letting this occur.
Personally, my
policy guideline right now would be, "find something else to do
which
didn't involve chemicals."
Harry Elston
Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO
Chemical Hygiene Officer
Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety
Opinions are mine, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah
"God made all those stars out of nothin'. He just
'pfffft' and there they were."
-Larry the Cucumber, Veggie Tales
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:34:29 -0700
From: Melonee Cruse <mcruse@BUNNY.CHAFFEY.CC.CA.US>
Organization: Chaffey College
Subject: Re: Lab training course for community colleges
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
I teach a lab safety training course for students wanting to
work in the chemistry stockroom at Chaffey Community College in
Rancho Cucamonga California. I use the book "Working Safely with
Chemicals in the Laboratory" featuring 'Hugh B. Careful' It is a
six week course and it saves alot of time training student
workers. It has also helped alot of students get jobs in
industrial and academic laboratories. If you are interested in
receiving my course syllabus, please contact me with your fax
number. I have to prepare a course outline and it will be ready
in late September.
Melonee Cruse
Chaffey Community College
5885 Haven Ave
Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91737
Office: (909) 941-2387
Fax (909) 941-2783
email: mcruse@chaffey.cc.ca.us
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:08:08 -0600
From: "Helen B. Gerhard" <hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM>
Subject: Re: Lab training course for community colleges
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
I would like to see the syllabus. Fax 719-598-9473.
Thanks!
Helen
-----Original Message-----
From: Melonee Cruse [SMTP:mcruse@BUNNY.CHAFFEY.CC.CA.US]
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 1998 10:34 AM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: Lab training course for community colleges
I teach a lab safety training course for students wanting to
work in the chemistry stockroom at Chaffey Community College in
Rancho Cucamonga California. I use the book "Working Safely with
Chemicals in the Laboratory" featuring 'Hugh B. Careful' It is a
six week course and it saves alot of time training student
workers. It has also helped alot of students get jobs in
industrial and academic laboratories. If you are interested in
receiving my course syllabus, please contact me with your fax
number. I have to prepare a course outline and it will be ready
in late September.
Melonee Cruse
Chaffey Community College
5885 Haven Ave
Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91737
Office: (909) 941-2387
Fax (909) 941-2783
email: mcruse@chaffey.cc.ca.us
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:44:27 -0400
From: Paula Ortiz <portiz@WSCC.EDU>
Subject: email
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear fellow NACHO listserv users,
I have only been receiving e-mail messages for two days. The responses are
overwhelming. Please take note: If you would like to respond to the
individual sending the original email then you need to do a "new Message"
specifically to that person. I am getting a lot of emails from folks who
are simply hitting the "reply to" button on the email thus sending messages
to the whole group. Please take the extra time to send your e-mails
specifically to the individual requesting the information.
Thanks a bunch!!!! This is a great group!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:23:14 -0400
From: Mary Ann Solstad <msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET>
Subject: Re: Lab training course for community colleges
In-Reply-To: <35E58A95.6EA9@chaffey.cc.ca.us>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I'd appreciate your course outline, Melonee.
Mary Ann
At 09:34 AM 8/27/98 -0700, you wrote:
>I teach a lab safety training course for students wanting to
>work in the chemistry stockroom at Chaffey Community College in
>Rancho Cucamonga California. I use the book "Working Safely with
>Chemicals in the Laboratory" featuring 'Hugh B. Careful' It is a
>six week course and it saves alot of time training student
>workers. It has also helped alot of students get jobs in
>industrial and academic laboratories. If you are interested in
>receiving my course syllabus, please contact me with your fax
>number. I have to prepare a course outline and it will be ready
>in late September.
>
>Melonee Cruse
>Chaffey Community College
>5885 Haven Ave
>Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91737
>Office: (909) 941-2387
>Fax (909) 941-2783
>email: mcruse@chaffey.cc.ca.us
Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety
SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude
16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness
781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application
Authority
DivCHAS Chair, ACS
msolstad@mediaone.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:40:35 -0700
From: Teresa Robertson <Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Organization: CSU Bakersfield
Subject: Toxicity Aquatic Bioassay
Comments: cc: trobertson@csubak.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
One of our profs would like to start a research project with students
to test the aquatic toxicity for the waste they create.
Since we are not a state-certified testing lab, their results will not
be valid for declaring a waste non-hazardous, but they'd like to have
an idea of what to expect before a sample goes off to the certified lab.
Does anyone know if the procedure by the State of California Dept. of
Fish and Game is available on the WWW?
Thanks,
Teresa R. Robertson, CCHO
California State University, Bakersfield
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:55:12 -0400
From: Shelley Patterson <PattersS@MAIL.SEMINOLE.CC.FL.US>
Subject: Laminar Flow Hood
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Our Biology Department is looking into purchasing a Laminar Flow Hood for =
use in independent student research. I have been asked to look into what =
is available, but since I have never used a LFH, I have a couple questions.=
Our Department Head would like the ability to switch the function of the =
LFH between tissue culture experimenting and bacterial/viral experimenting.=
Clearly both types of research can not being going at one time, but if =
the inside is thoroughly cleaned, is it possible to purchase one LFH that =
can work for both?
We have two faculty members who have used a LFH for one or the other type =
of research. One says you want a horizontal laminar airflow for tissue =
culturing. The other says you want a vertical laminar airflow for =
bacterial/viral experiments. The latter I can understand, my question is =
whether it is necessary to have a vertical laminar
airflow for tissue culturing.
We would like this LFH to be equipped with air, gas, and vacuum service =
fixtures, but one of the LFHs we were looking into had a note from the =
manufacture that strongly recommended against any compressed air. Both =
faculty member recall using alcohol burners during their research. Is it =
standard not to recommend compressed air in a
LFH?
Could anybody recommend a LFH? or a good supplier?
Thanks,
Shelley Patterson
Laboratory Manager
Seminole Community College
100 Weldon Blvd.
Sanford, FL 32773
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:03:40 -0700
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Toxicity Aquatic Bioassay
In-Reply-To: <msg237910.thr-3b00ac1b.0@firstclass1.csubak.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:40 AM 8/27/98 -0700, you wrote:
>One of our profs would like to start a research project with students
>to test the aquatic toxicity for the waste they create.
>Since we are not a state-certified testing lab, their results will not
>be valid for declaring a waste non-hazardous, but they'd like to have
>an idea of what to expect before a sample goes off to the certified lab.
>Does anyone know if the procedure by the State of California Dept. of
>Fish and Game is available on the WWW?
Teresa!
I'm on the trail of the protocol number. It's an EPA test out of their
SW-846 manual. Probably not available on line but likely available through
the library.
I'll be in touch.
Deb.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:45:21 EDT
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Laminar Flow Hood
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-08-27 16:08:14 EDT, you write:
<< Could anybody recommend a LFH? or a good supplier? >>
JAK: Make sure you consider the Baker Company in Sanford, Maine.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:00:58 -0400
From: Madelyn Miller <mmiller@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Laminar Flow Hood
In-Reply-To: <fa1d69a.35e5ef91@aol.com>>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Greetings,
Try a copy you can access on the web called PurAire. We just bought
several hoods from them. Not only do they have LFH (that protect
product) but have combination LFH and chemical hoods that do both!
Also try Nuaire. They are the standard here for biological safety
cabinets. Hope this helps.
Madelyn
> << Could anybody recommend a LFH? or a good supplier? >>
----------------------
Madelyn Miller
Chemical Safety Specialist,CCHO
Environmental Health & Safety
Carnegie Mellon University
mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:12:48 -0500
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Laminar Flow Hood -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hi Shelley.
Yes, do consider the the Baker co in Sanford, Me. If you want to know how to reach them let me know. We have one of their units and it is wonderful. I have addressed your other questions in the text of your message. I work daily in a lab that does both TC and Viral/Bacterial work in a LFH. Hope this helps.
Janeen
>>>>>>>>>>
We have two faculty members who have used a LFH for one or the other type of research. One says you want a horizontal laminar airflow for tissue culturing. The other says you want a vertical laminar airflow for bacterial/viral experiments. The latter I can understand, my question is whether it is necessary to have a vertical laminar
airflow for tissue culturing. We use vertical laminar airflow for TC and for viral/bacterial work. Make sure it is outfitted with a UV light. We do TC work first and the viral/bacterial stuff second and then let the hood have it with disinfectant followed by the UV light. We have had no problem with contamination as long as we are careful to follow this procedure and not cut corners.
We would like this LFH to be equipped with air, gas, and vacuum service fixtures, but one of the LFHs we were looking into had a note from the manufacture that strongly recommended against any compressed air. Both faculty member recall using alcohol burners during their research. Is it standard not to recommend compressed air in a
LFH? Our hood is fitted with services. We do not use alcohol burners in the hood. We have a gas supply in the hood for a bunsen burner. I have worked with this type of set up in a couple different labs so I don't think it is unusual.
<<<<<<<<<<
JANEEN LAPIERRE, CHO-COM
UNIVERSITY OF NEW ENGLAND
BIDDEFORD, ME 04005
207-283-0170 X2446
JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU
MY OPINIONS, NOT THOSE OF UNE.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:17:17 -0500
Reply-To: okeeffeb@advancia.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Barbara O'Keeffe <okeeffeb@ADVANCIA.COM>
Organization: Advancia Corporation
Subject: Re: Toxicity Aquatic Bioassay
Comments: To: Teresa Robertson <Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <msg237910.thr-3b00ac1b.0@firstclass1.csubak.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> One of our profs would like to start a research project with students to
> test the aquatic toxicity for the waste they create.
> Since we are not a state-certified testing lab, their results will not be
> valid for declaring a waste non-hazardous, but they'd like to have an idea
> of what to expect before a sample goes off to the certified lab.
Does your prof realize that aquatic toxicity tests are not used to
determine if something is a hazardous waste? The definition of
hazardous waste is very tightly defined and except for the long
extraction period for TCLPs, are pretty straight forward. That being
said - none of the tests are for aquatic toxicity. I can think of a
whole lot of things that might be toxic to an aquatic environment
that would not be classified as a hazardous waste.
> Does anyone know if the procedure by the State of California Dept. of Fish
> and Game is available on the WWW?
Fish and Game will have regulations regarding what can be
dumped into the waterways - - these are not hazardous waste
regulations, but come under NPDES permits.
> Thanks,
> Teresa R. Robertson, CCHO
> California State University, Bakersfield
Barb
Barbara O'Keeffe
Advancia Corporation, 211 SW "A" Ave., Lawton, OK 73501
voice: 580-355-1471 fax: 580-357-9360
e-mail: okeeffeb@advancia.com http://www.advancia.com
***bits of wisdom, trivia & misplaced comments*
***are mine - - no one else wants them*
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:57:10 -0400
Reply-To: "Dr. Henry" <hboyter@cstone.net>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Henry Boyter Jr." <hboyter@CSTONE.NET>
Subject: Re: Toxicity Aquatic Bioassay
Comments: To: okeeffeb@advancia.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I thought the same thing. Toxicity testing is not for waste.
If you are looking for toxicity, there are easier ways to do the testing. USEPA has several methods on
its website and journals such as ES&T and Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry will have research
articles that give the methods best suited for students. Most involve using plants like duckweeds. The
plants are easier to maintain than critters.
I hope these are graduate students you are talking about. Maintaining aquatic toxicity testing set-ups
is time consuming, unless the professor is going to do it. Most labs have either a half-time or full
time tech to do just the maintenance. Look in the journals I mentioned to get more information. You
may have to contact one of the authors. Also, look at those EPA webpages.
An alternative is to use a system such as Microtox (R), which doesn't involve having to maintain
critters and weeds. There is up front cost however. Undergrads could even do this. Microtox may help
if it is for academics.
Dr. Henry Boyter, Jr. Ph.D. Chemist
The opinions of Dr. Boyter are provided for informational
purposes only and should not be used as advice. No
warranty or expression of professionalism is implied.
***************
-----Original Message-----
From: Barbara O'Keeffe <okeeffeb@advancia.com>
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Date: Friday, August 28, 1998 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: Toxicity Aquatic Bioassay
> One of our profs would like to start a research project with students to
> test the aquatic toxicity for the waste they create.
> Since we are not a state-certified testing lab, their results will not be
> valid for declaring a waste non-hazardous, but they'd like to have an idea
> of what to expect before a sample goes off to the certified lab.
Does your prof realize that aquatic toxicity tests are not used to
determine if something is a hazardous waste? The definition of
hazardous waste is very tightly defined and except for the long
extraction period for TCLPs, are pretty straight forward. That being
said - none of the tests are for aquatic toxicity. I can think of a
whole lot of things that might be toxic to an aquatic environment
that would not be classified as a hazardous waste.
> Does anyone know if the procedure by the State of California Dept. of Fish
> and Game is available on the WWW?
Fish and Game will have regulations regarding what can be
dumped into the waterways - - these are not hazardous waste
regulations, but come under NPDES permits.
> Thanks,
> Teresa R. Robertson, CCHO
> California State University, Bakersfield
Barb
Barbara O'Keeffe
Advancia Corporation, 211 SW "A" Ave., Lawton, OK 73501
voice: 580-355-1471 fax: 580-357-9360
e-mail: okeeffeb@advancia.com http://www.advancia.com
***bits of wisdom, trivia & misplaced comments*
***are mine - - no one else wants them*
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:54:21 -0400
From: Ian Fraser <igfraser@MC1ADM.UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Laminar Flow Hood
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Good reference is http://www.nih.gov/od/ors/ds/pubs/bmbl/contents.htm
At 03:55 PM 27/08/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Our Biology Department is looking into purchasing a Laminar Flow Hood for
use in independent student research. I have been asked to look into what
is available, but since I have never used a LFH, I have a couple questions.
>Our Department Head would like the ability to switch the function of the
LFH between tissue culture experimenting and bacterial/viral experimenting.
Clearly both types of research can not being going at one time, but if the
inside is thoroughly cleaned, is it possible to purchase one LFH that can
work for both?
>We have two faculty members who have used a LFH for one or the other type
of research. One says you want a horizontal laminar airflow for tissue
culturing. The other says you want a vertical laminar airflow for
bacterial/viral experiments. The latter I can understand, my question is
whether it is necessary to have a vertical laminar
>airflow for tissue culturing.
>We would like this LFH to be equipped with air, gas, and vacuum service
fixtures, but one of the LFHs we were looking into had a note from the
manufacture that strongly recommended against any compressed air. Both
faculty member recall using alcohol burners during their research. Is it
standard not to recommend compressed air in a
>LFH?
>Could anybody recommend a LFH? or a good supplier?
>Thanks,
>Shelley Patterson
>Laboratory Manager
>Seminole Community College
>100 Weldon Blvd.
>Sanford, FL 32773
>
Thanks in advance.
Ian Fraser
Safety Office
University of Waterloo
200 University Ave. W.
Waterloo, ON
Canada, N2L 3G1
Phone (519) 888-4567 Ext 6268
Fax (519) 746-5023
Mailto:igfraser@uwaterloo.ca
http://www.safetyoffice.uwaterloo.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:45:50 -0700
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Toxicity Aquatic Bioassay
In-Reply-To: <msg237910.thr-3b00ac1b.0@firstclass1.csubak.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:40 AM 8/27/98 -0700, you wrote:
>One of our profs would like to start a research project with students
>to test the aquatic toxicity for the waste they create.
>Since we are not a state-certified testing lab, their results will not
>be valid for declaring a waste non-hazardous, but they'd like to have
>an idea of what to expect before a sample goes off to the certified lab.
>Does anyone know if the procedure by the State of California Dept. of
>Fish and Game is available on the WWW?
Sounds like a neat project! Brings home how toxic is the stuff they produce.
For you lucky non-Californians, the aquatic toxicity bioassay is one of the
ways characteristic (toxic) waste is captured in CA. It's contained in
Title 22 (California Code of Regulations), 66261.24, paragraph (6). There
are two references for the method protocol: Standard Methods for the
Examination of Water and Watewater, 14th Ed., American Public Health
Association, 1015 18th st. NW, Washington, DC, 20036. Also the CA Dept of
Fish and Game, Water Pollution Control Lab. I did come across a method
number (600-4-85-013) but no reference for where the method came from <g>.
Typical for notes I write myself sometimes.
Teresa: you'll want to use the 96 hour static test, LC50 <500 mg/l.
That's what's called out in the regs. Also, using fathead minnows is best
because everything kills rainbow trout <g>. I don't know if there's an
on-line resource - I'd be surprised, frankly. This is pretty obscure. You
might want to check with a local analytical lab that's certified to do it -
they might be willing to let you use their method.
Also, this is an expensive test - several hundred dollars per waste stream.
If you only produce a few rather large (>55 gals a month perhaps) waste
streams, it's worth it to test the waste. But I never found it to be
cost-effective for the bizarro, small volume waste streams I've managed.
Good luck :-)
Deb.
Debbie Decker
EH&S UCDavis
(530)754-7964
dmdecker@ucdavis.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:08:18 -0700
From: Teresa Robertson <Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Organization: CSU Bakersfield
Subject: Re: Toxicity Aquatic Bioassay
Comments: cc: trobertson@csubak.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
okeeffeb@advancia.com,.internet writes:
>Does your prof realize that aquatic toxicity tests are not used to
>determine if something is a hazardous waste? The definition of
>hazardous waste is very tightly defined and except for the long
>extraction period for TCLPs, are pretty straight forward. That being
>said - none of the tests are for aquatic toxicity. I can think of a
>whole lot of things that might be toxic to an aquatic environment
>that would not be classified as a hazardous waste.
Many thanks to my responders -
You all may notice a pattern emerging - if its off the wall, it must be
a California NACHO !
We have our own Cal OSHA and Cal EPA supplementing the federal regs !
:)
I'm looking forward to meeting you all out here for the Anaheim
national ACS meeting , spring 1999, and in San Francisco spring 2000
!!!
The Dept. of Fish and Game supplied me with their 7-page Lab SOP "Acute
Toxicity Test Procedures Using Pimephales Promelas", so my quest is at
an end.
FYI - here are some excerpts from "When Does a Hazardous Substance
Become a Waste?" found at
http://edweb.csus.edu/courses/www/students/english/hazmatch6.htm
where you will find the other Calif. definitions for toxicity, as well
as the definitions for ignitability, corrosivity, and reactivity.
FEDERAL RCRA The Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA) defines
hazardous wastes as having characteristics of: reactivity,
ignitability, corrosivity, and toxicity (40 C.F.R. Section 261.3). In
RCRA, the generator of hazardous waste is given the responsibility of
tracking the hazardous waste from the cradle to the grave.
IN CALIFORNIA Section 66261.21 - 66261.24, Title 22 of the California
Code of Regulations sets criteria for identifying the characteristics
of hazardous waste. In Title 22, the characteristics of ignitability,
corrosivity, reactivity, and toxicity are further described in detail
as follows: ¿ 22-66261.21
Characteristic of Toxicity.
(a) A waste exhibits the characteristic of toxicity if representative
samples of the waste have any of the following properties:
.......................
(6) it has an acute aquatic 96-hour LC50 less than 500 milligrams per
liter when measured in soft water (total hardness 40 to 48 milligrams
per liter of calcium carbonate) with fathead minnows (Pimephales
promelas), rainbow trout (Salmo gairdneri) or golden shiners
(Notemigonus crysoleucas) according to procedures described in Part 800
of the "Standard Methods for the Examination of Water and Wastewater
(16th edition)," American Public Health Association, 1985 and "Static
Acute Bioassay Procedures for Hazardous Waste Samples, "California
Department of Fish and Game, Water Pollution Control Laboratory,
revised November 1988 (incorporated by reference, see section
66260.11), or by other test methods or test fish approved by the
Department, using test samples prepared or meeting the conditions for
testings as perscribed in subdivisions (c) and (d) of Appendix II of
this chapter, and solubilized, suspended, dispersed or emulsified by
the cited procedures or by other methods approved by the Department
Thanks again,
Teresa R. Robertson, CCHO
California State University Bakersfield
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:42:55 -0700
From: Neal Langerman <chemsaf@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: COMMERCIAL: LAB SAFETY TRAINING
Comments: To: hs-canada@ccohs.ca, occ-med-l@dudley.mc.duke.edu,
SAFETY@LIST.UVM.EDU
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Advanced Chemical Safety reminds you of three training programs.
EMERGENCY RESPONSE: CONTAMINATED EMPLOYEE
4-Hour Course
This =BD-day seminar provides participants with the information needed to
respond to the most difficult chemical emergency seen in industrial and
academic location - a severely injured employee who is also contaminated.
Participants will receive a customized training manual which can be used to
develop response plans, train responders, or guide an actual response.
CLEAN-UP OF SMALL SPILLS IN LABORATORY & PRODUCTION AREAS
4-Hour Course
The OSHA Standard "Hazardous Waste Operations and Emergency Response" allows
workers to clean-up spills which are incidental to normal work activities
without implementing the complex activities of a full-scale spill response.
The exception requires, however, that workers are thoroughly familiar with
the potential hazards of associated with the chemical, and are trained in
the proper spill clean-up procedures. This four-hour seminar will provide
participants with the information and skill needed to train workers at their
facility to clean-up incidental spills. Each participant will receive a
training manual which contains a complete "Incidental Spill Response
Procedure". Each participant will receive a Certificate of Participation,
approximately four to six weeks after the training. Participants will have
an opportunity to take part in a "hands-on" simulation of a spill clean-up
in a laboratory situation.
OSHA regulations require trained personnel respond to chemical emergencies.
The regulations allow, however, small spills, which are incidental to normal
work activity, to be cleaned-up by area workers, provided they are properly
trained. This =BD-day seminar will provide you with the information needed=
to
properly train employees on the clean-up of small spills. Participants
will receive a customized training manual which can be used to train
laboratory workers, production line employees, and safety & environmental
staff on the correct method for the clean-up of small spills. The training
manual contains a complete, highly workable "Standard Procedure for Clean-
up of Small Spills."
OSHA ANNUAL REFRESHER TRAINING
8-Hour Course
OSHA 1910.120 requires that all persons trained under the regulation have
annual refresher training. Participation in ACSafety's Annual Refresher
training course meets this requirement. Each participant receives a manual
which outlines the course content, including information on new and proposed
regulations impacting hazardous waste operations and emergency response
activities, discussion of new technologies, new personal protective
equipment, site remediation and spill response techniques, and exploring
subjects such as spill incident investigation, review of chemical safety,
and response to an injured victim. Each participant receives a certificate
of completion suitable for framing and a wallet certification.
Upcoming Programs
Lab Spill and Contaminated Victim Programs
Minneapolis Oct 12
San Francisco Nov 9
San Diego Nov 16
OSHA Annual Refresher
Minneapolis Oct 13
San Francisco Nov 10
San Diego Nov 17
Contact me for more information
Neal
*************************************************************
NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com
ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY
8909 Complex Drive
San Diego CA 92123-1418
619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX) =20
619 990 4908 (cellular)
visit our homepage: http://www.chemical-safety.com
*************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:28:44 -0400
From: Mary Ann Solstad <msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET>
Subject: Re: COMMERCIAL: LAB SAFETY TRAINING
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980828184255.006d3dc0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good to share the platform with you, Neal. You brought a bit of common=
sense into the who procedure, as did Peter and the others. Interesting how=
we all ended up saying something about the calvary. I thought it was=
original with me, but maybe not.
You did look more relaxed than the last time we met
Mary Ann
At 11:42 AM 8/28/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Advanced Chemical Safety reminds you of three training programs.
>EMERGENCY RESPONSE: CONTAMINATED EMPLOYEE
>4-Hour Course
>This =BD-day seminar provides participants with the information needed to
>respond to the most difficult chemical emergency seen in industrial and
>academic location - a severely injured employee who is also contaminated.
>Participants will receive a customized training manual which can be used to
>develop response plans, train responders, or guide an actual response.
>CLEAN-UP OF SMALL SPILLS IN LABORATORY & PRODUCTION AREAS
>4-Hour Course
>The OSHA Standard "Hazardous Waste Operations and Emergency Response"=
allows
>workers to clean-up spills which are incidental to normal work activities
>without implementing the complex activities of a full-scale spill response.
>The exception requires, however, that workers are thoroughly familiar with
>the potential hazards of associated with the chemical, and are trained in
>the proper spill clean-up procedures. This four-hour seminar will provide
>participants with the information and skill needed to train workers at=
their
>facility to clean-up incidental spills. Each participant will receive a
>training manual which contains a complete "Incidental Spill Response
>Procedure". Each participant will receive a Certificate of Participation,
>approximately four to six weeks after the training. Participants will have
>an opportunity to take part in a "hands-on" simulation of a spill clean-up
>in a laboratory situation.
>OSHA regulations require trained personnel respond to chemical emergencies.
>The regulations allow, however, small spills, which are incidental to=
normal
>work activity, to be cleaned-up by area workers, provided they are properly
>trained. This =BD-day seminar will provide you with the information needed=
to
>properly train employees on the clean-up of small spills. Participants
>will receive a customized training manual which can be used to train
>laboratory workers, production line employees, and safety & environmental
>staff on the correct method for the clean-up of small spills. The training
>manual contains a complete, highly workable "Standard Procedure for Clean-
>up of Small Spills."
>OSHA ANNUAL REFRESHER TRAINING
>8-Hour Course
>OSHA 1910.120 requires that all persons trained under the regulation have
>annual refresher training. Participation in ACSafety's Annual Refresher
>training course meets this requirement. Each participant receives a manual
>which outlines the course content, including information on new and=
proposed
>regulations impacting hazardous waste operations and emergency response
>activities, discussion of new technologies, new personal protective
>equipment, site remediation and spill response techniques, and exploring
>subjects such as spill incident investigation, review of chemical safety,
>and response to an injured victim. Each participant receives a certificate
>of completion suitable for framing and a wallet certification.
>Upcoming Programs
>Lab Spill and Contaminated Victim Programs
>Minneapolis Oct 12
>San Francisco Nov 9
>San Diego Nov 16
>OSHA Annual Refresher
>Minneapolis Oct 13
>San Francisco Nov 10
>San Diego Nov 17
>Contact me for more information
>Neal
>*************************************************************
>NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com
>ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY
>8909 Complex Drive
>San Diego CA 92123-1418
>619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX) =20
>619 990 4908 (cellular)
>visit our homepage: http://www.chemical-safety.com
>*************************************************************
Mary Ann
Mary Ann Solstad
16 Pequot Rd
Marblehead, MA 01945-1202
tel 781-631-4748, FAX 781-631-1832
<paraindent><param>out</param>msolstad@mediaone.net
</paraindent>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:05:15 -0400
Reply-To: "Dr. Henry" <hboyter@cstone.net>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Henry Boyter Jr." <hboyter@CSTONE.NET>
Subject: Re: Toxicity Aquatic Bioassay
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
If used for hazardous waste, what is the toxicity limit? I assume the
waste would be a California Waste since it could not be a hazardous
waste under RCRA.
I had run across this before, but I thought the limit was against discharge, not
classifying the material as a hazardous waste, just a non-dischargable (?) waste.
Dr. Henry Boyter, Jr. Ph.D. Chemist
The opinions of Dr. Boyter are provided for informational
purposes only and should not be used as advice. No
warranty or expression of professionalism is implied.
***************
-----Original Message-----
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Date: Friday, August 28, 1998 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: Toxicity Aquatic Bioassay
At 11:40 AM 8/27/98 -0700, you wrote:
>One of our profs would like to start a research project with students
>to test the aquatic toxicity for the waste they create.
>Since we are not a state-certified testing lab, their results will not
>be valid for declaring a waste non-hazardous, but they'd like to have
>an idea of what to expect before a sample goes off to the certified lab.
>Does anyone know if the procedure by the State of California Dept. of
>Fish and Game is available on the WWW?
Sounds like a neat project! Brings home how toxic is the stuff they produce.
For you lucky non-Californians, the aquatic toxicity bioassay is one of the
ways characteristic (toxic) waste is captured in CA. It's contained in
Title 22 (California Code of Regulations), 66261.24, paragraph (6). There
are two references for the method protocol: Standard Methods for the
Examination of Water and Watewater, 14th Ed., American Public Health
Association, 1015 18th st. NW, Washington, DC, 20036. Also the CA Dept of
Fish and Game, Water Pollution Control Lab. I did come across a method
number (600-4-85-013) but no reference for where the method came from <g>.
Typical for notes I write myself sometimes.
Teresa: you'll want to use the 96 hour static test, LC50 <500 mg/l.
That's what's called out in the regs. Also, using fathead minnows is best
because everything kills rainbow trout <g>. I don't know if there's an
on-line resource - I'd be surprised, frankly. This is pretty obscure. You
might want to check with a local analytical lab that's certified to do it -
they might be willing to let you use their method.
Also, this is an expensive test - several hundred dollars per waste stream.
If you only produce a few rather large (>55 gals a month perhaps) waste
streams, it's worth it to test the waste. But I never found it to be
cost-effective for the bizarro, small volume waste streams I've managed.
Good luck :-)
Deb.
Debbie Decker
EH&S UCDavis
(530)754-7964
dmdecker@ucdavis.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:13:00 -0700
From: Teresa Robertson <Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Organization: CSU Bakersfield
Subject: Re: Toxicity Aquatic Bioassay
Comments: To: hboyter@cstone.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
hboyter@cstone.net,.internet writes:
>If used for hazardous waste, what is the toxicity limit?
".....96-hour LC50 less than 500 milligrams per liter when measured in
soft water.....with flathead minnows, rainbow trout, or golden
shiners......or by other test methods or test fish approved by the
Department.........
>I assume the waste would be a California Waste since it could not be a
>hazardous
>waste under RCRA.
My assumption also, and I know the site of disposal (in or out of
California) plays a part, or maybe it is the only factor, unless the
site (in or out of Cal) of waste generation has a role also ..... are
you still out there Debbie Decker? Do you know? or where's Michael
Ahler on this one?
>I had run across this before, but I thought the limit was against
>discharge, not
>classifying the material as a hazardous waste, just a non-dischargable
>(?) waste.
Now see, you got me on that one too, I don't know of its use for
discharge. Maybe we don't get to do that in Calif.....I just don't
know......
>Dr. Henry Boyter, Jr. Ph.D. Chemist
>The opinions of Dr. Boyter are provided for informational
>purposes only and should not be used as advice. No
>warranty or expression of professionalism is implied.
>***************
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
>To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
>Date: Friday, August 28, 1998 12:44 PM
>Subject: Re: Toxicity Aquatic Bioassay
>At 11:40 AM 8/27/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>One of our profs would like to start a research project with students
>>to test the aquatic toxicity for the waste they create.
>>
>>Since we are not a state-certified testing lab, their results will not
>>be valid for declaring a waste non-hazardous, but they'd like to have
>>an idea of what to expect before a sample goes off to the certified
>lab.
>>
>>Does anyone know if the procedure by the State of California Dept. of
>>Fish and Game is available on the WWW?
>Sounds like a neat project! Brings home how toxic is the stuff they
>produce.
>For you lucky non-Californians, the aquatic toxicity bioassay is one of
>the
>ways characteristic (toxic) waste is captured in CA. It's contained in
>Title 22 (California Code of Regulations), 66261.24, paragraph (6).
>There
>are two references for the method protocol: Standard Methods for the
>Examination of Water and Watewater, 14th Ed., American Public Health
>Association, 1015 18th st. NW, Washington, DC, 20036. Also the CA Dept
>of
>Fish and Game, Water Pollution Control Lab. I did come across a method
>number (600-4-85-013) but no reference for where the method came from
><g>.
>Typical for notes I write myself sometimes.
>Teresa: you'll want to use the 96 hour static test, LC50 <500 mg/l.
>That's what's called out in the regs. Also, using fathead minnows is
>best
>because everything kills rainbow trout <g>. I don't know if there's an
>on-line resource - I'd be surprised, frankly. This is pretty obscure.
>You
>might want to check with a local analytical lab that's certified to do
>it -
>they might be willing to let you use their method.
>Also, this is an expensive test - several hundred dollars per waste
>stream.
>If you only produce a few rather large (>55 gals a month perhaps) waste
>streams, it's worth it to test the waste. But I never found it to be
>cost-effective for the bizarro, small volume waste streams I've managed.
>Good luck :-)
>Deb.
>Debbie Decker
>EH&S UCDavis
>(530)754-7964
>dmdecker@ucdavis.edu
>X-SMTP-From: owner-labsafety-l@SIU.EDU
>X-SMTP-To: Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU
>Received: from saluki-mail.siu.edu (saluki-mail.siu.edu
>[131.230.252.17]) by bak_compserv6.csubak.edu with SMTP id MSGTTTQE;
>Fri, 28 Aug 1998 20:09:45 GMT
>Received: from saluki-mail.siu.edu (saluki-mail.siu.edu
>[131.230.252.17]) by saluki-mail.siu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with
>ESMTP id PAA45504; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:02:59 -0500 (CDT)
>Received: from SIU.EDU by SIU.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8c) with
>spool id 967733 for LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:02:50 -0500
>Received: from Astrovan.cstone.net (mailstop.cstone.net
>[205.197.102.13]) by saluki-mail.siu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with
>ESMTP id PAA62762 for <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:02:45
>-0500 (CDT)
>Received: from henry486 (Dialin1013.cstone.net [204.71.8.13]) by
>Astrovan.cstone.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 216 ID#
>0-54117U7500L750S0V35) with SMTP id net for <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>; Fri,
>28 Aug 1998 15:59:46 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>X-Priority: 3
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
>Message-ID: <000801bdd2bf$2e129c40$0d0847cc@henry486>
>Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:05:15 -0400
>Reply-To: "Dr. Henry" <hboyter@cstone.net>
>Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
>From: "Henry Boyter Jr." <hboyter@cstone.net>
>Subject: Re: Toxicity Aquatic Bioassay
>To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:45:07 -0700
From: Melonee Cruse <mcruse@BUNNY.CHAFFEY.CC.CA.US>
Organization: Chaffey College
Subject: Re: Train the Trainer courses and curriculum
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Hi Folks,
I am trying to put together a series of courses for "Train
the Trainer" in as many areas of Health and Safety as are needed
for most workplaces. I have found "Trainer" classes for 40 Hour
HazWOper, and 24 Hour Spill Response. I would like to know two
things.
1. Are there any "Train the Trainer" courses (any H/S area,
especially if it's needed in most workplaces) in California?
I'll travel out of state if necessary.
2. Where can I began looking for "Trainer" certification
requirements mandated by OSHA or any other regulating agency.
I am trying to compile a list of training courses that we could
offer to local employers in any area of health and safety and
develop "Train the Trainer" courses so that they can have in-house
trainers. Currently we offer these certificate courses:40 Hour
Hazardous Waste Site Operator (HazWOper), 24 Hour Spill and
Emergency Response and basic First Aid. None of these courses are
"Train the Trainer"
I would appreicate any ideas, suggestions, and information you could
provide. Is any one interested in developing "Train the Trainer"
courses? Lets Talk.
Melonee Cruse
Environmental Technology
Chaffey Community College
(909) 941-2387
mcruse@chaffey.cc.ca.us
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:46:28 -0700
From: Neal Langerman <chemsaf@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Train the Trainer courses and curriculum
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Melonee:
You have addressed a real can of worms. The concept of "Train-the-Trainer"
means that a participant will gain skill at presenting specific information,
as well as improve their knowledge of the information. To date, I have not
encountered a EH&S program which actually does both. I designed one but it
lasted much longer than anyone would pay for. For example, if the program
was the OSHA 24-Hour H/M Technician Level, which needs every bit of the time
to cover the technical material, then I would need 1 - 2 more days to give
the participants training skills, including the opportunity to get up and
present a lecture, with feedback.
So, my feeling is get the technical knowledge, and then "self-certify" for
the training. OSHA, and other agencies usually do not require a formal
trainer certification.
Neal
At 01:45 PM 8/28/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi Folks,
> I am trying to put together a series of courses for "Train
>the Trainer" in as many areas of Health and Safety as are needed
>for most workplaces. I have found "Trainer" classes for 40 Hour
>HazWOper, and 24 Hour Spill Response. I would like to know two
>things.
>1. Are there any "Train the Trainer" courses (any H/S area,
>especially if it's needed in most workplaces) in California?
>I'll travel out of state if necessary.
>2. Where can I began looking for "Trainer" certification
>requirements mandated by OSHA or any other regulating agency.
>I am trying to compile a list of training courses that we could
>offer to local employers in any area of health and safety and
>develop "Train the Trainer" courses so that they can have in-house
>trainers. Currently we offer these certificate courses:40 Hour
>Hazardous Waste Site Operator (HazWOper), 24 Hour Spill and
>Emergency Response and basic First Aid. None of these courses are
>"Train the Trainer"
>I would appreicate any ideas, suggestions, and information you could
>provide. Is any one interested in developing "Train the Trainer"
>courses? Lets Talk.
>Melonee Cruse
>Environmental Technology
>Chaffey Community College
>(909) 941-2387
>mcruse@chaffey.cc.ca.us
>
*************************************************************
NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com
ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY
8909 Complex Drive
San Diego CA 92123-1418
619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX)
619 990 4908 (cellular)
visit our homepage: http://www.chemical-safety.com
*************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:35:53 -0700
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Toxicity Aquatic Bioassay
In-Reply-To: <msg238368.thr-d38e4b4.0@firstclass1.csubak.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:13 PM 8/28/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>I assume the waste would be a California Waste since it could not be a
>>hazardous
>>waste under RCRA.
>My assumption also, and I know the site of disposal (in or out of
>California) plays a part, or maybe it is the only factor, unless the
>site (in or out of Cal) of waste generation has a role also ..... are
>you still out there Debbie Decker? Do you know? or where's Michael
>Ahler on this one?
Point of generation is the point (ha ha - don't excuse the pun - it was
intentional) - ultimate disposal doesn't matter. I sent a lot of CA-only
wastes off to Aptus in Utah (was Rollins, now Laidlaw - check today's stock
market, it may have changed).
>>I had run across this before, but I thought the limit was against
>>discharge, not
>>classifying the material as a hazardous waste, just a non-dischargable
>>(?) waste.
>Now see, you got me on that one too, I don't know of its use for
>discharge. Maybe we don't get to do that in Calif.....I just don't
>know......
If it kills >5 fish, it's toxic hazardous waste (in CA) and as such, must
be disposed as hazardous waste. It becomes a non-RCRA, toxic, hazardous
waste and is shipped as such for disposal, wherever that might be. In some
other locales, the aquatic toxicity may be used for wastewater treatment
plant discharge or as part of an NPDES permit (industrial discharge to
navigable waters, blah blah).
For us here at UCD, the limits on discharge from our WWTP are very strict
but we discharge direct to Putah Creek, upstream from my office! Sooooo,
strict limits don't bother me <g>. But I don't think they use the fishy
test :-)
Too much radiation safety training this week - I'm going buggy!
Happy weekend, all!
Deb.
Debbie Decker
EH&S UCDavis
(530)754-7964
dmdecker@ucdavis.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:39:24 -0700
From: Michael Ahler
<Ahler_Michael_D/cpslo_employee1@POLYMAIL.CPUNIX.CALPOLY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Train the Trainer courses and curriculum
Comments: To: chemsaf@IX.NETCOM.COM
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980828224628.006be988@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Re:"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Here is a recommendation I can wholeheartedly give:
Get you technical training from any one of several providers (there are
many out there) and then take the National Safety Council 5-day course
entitled Safety Training Methods. I have done this, and the training
skills you will gain are outstanding. National Safety Council has
training sites across the country ( I did mine near San Francisco) and
their website should give anyone the numbers to call and ask, and
perhaps a schedule.
Thanks.
Michael Ahler, CHO
Risk Management
Cal Poly
San Luis Obispo, California
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 13:24:52 -0500
From: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Train the Trainer courses and curriculum
In-Reply-To: <H0000326012cc1f3@MHS>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I agree with Neal and Michael (I think) on this topic. I've been providing
training for many years to a variety of response personnel, and will be
participating in DoD's anti-terrorism TtT classes in the near future. A
true TtT class must incorporate all the material PLUS how to teach it, if
the students in the TtT class are getting it for the first time. If we
assume that we don't have the luxury of simply teaching an instructor class
to experienced personnel, the biggest potential problem is assuming that
people who complete a TtT class are now qualified to teach. Mastery of
subject AND the ability to pass it along is a lot to ask of a short class.
Adult education techniques are not topic-sensitive. Instructors tend to be
good
- or bad - with a variety of topics. If we recognize that one needs some
specific information to teach a specific topic, but doesn't need to learn
how to teach adults in every TtT class, companies receiving training have
an option, which I think ties in with Michael's recommendation, although I
haven't sampled NSC's long program.
Select your instructor cadre and provide a general "how to teach adults"
class, whether NSC's, FEMA's, or numerous others. In fact, the US DOT has
a curriculum for adult education that they apply to EMS instructors, but
which really is generic. The biggest problem I've found with classes like
these is that they tend to be formulaic and can easily fall into cookbook
instruction, even though that's one of the pitfalls they preach against.
By far the biggest challenge is to get people who can teach. Once they've
made it through an adult-education course AND DEMONSTRATED TEACHING SKILLS,
would-be instructors can focus on learning actual class material for a
variety of topics; the only additional information they'd need in a TtT
class would be topic-specific training points (e.g., useful scenarios for
table-top or practical exercises, or common pitfalls with specific subject
matter), which shouldn't add too much time to the original class. I'm
guessing I'm not putting forth anything remarkable here.
Plug time: Zephyr Environmental, with whom I serve as a consultant and
instructor, does provide this type of training and we travel.
Onward,
Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu
"The opinions of Dr. Rubin do not necessarily represent those of the
Canadian government, with whom he has no affiliation."
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 14:57:54 -0400
From: "Guy W. Innocente" <innocent@ICI.NET>
Subject: Re: Lab safety class -Reply
In-Reply-To: <s5e3cb2c.041@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Janeen,
Also check with Northeastern University.
(http://www.neu.edu/cont-ed/env)
I rec'd a mailing from them for their "University College Continuing
Education, Environmental, Health and Safety Program".
They listed a course "Chemical and Biological Safety in the Laboratory"
Sounds like all had a good time in Boston. Conflicting schedule issue at
work prevented my attending this time.
Guy
At 08:49 AM 8/26/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Bravo!!
>It is very encouraging to hear another university offering a class
dedicated to safety. The fact that it is worth 3 credits will undoubtedly
help reinforce its value to the students. Congratulations!!
>Would you be willing to e-mail a copy of the syllabus for the course. I
would like to pass it on to the undergraduate school for consideration. It
is always helpful to be able to say "this is what other institutions are
doing".
>Thanks, and good luck!
>Janeen Lapierre, CHO-COM
>University of New England
>JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:07:07 -0700
From: Michael Ahler
<Ahler_Michael_D/cpslo_employee1@POLYMAIL.CPUNIX.CALPOLY.EDU>
Subject: Aquatic Bioassay
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="Aquatic"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OK, this is where Michael Ahler stands on this one:
(Thanks to Ms. Decker for the request)
My reading of Title 22 (California Hazardous Waste Regulations) tells me=
that a waste is hazardous by the characteristic of toxicity if it has an=
oral LD50 of 5000 mg/kg . There are also criteria for LC50 and dermal
LD50, but these numbers are less common in the literature. This section
of Title 22 says much more about the characteristic of toxicity and
other hazards, but I=92m presently choosing here to abbreviate heavily. =
=20
Lab work to determine an oral LD50 is very time consuming (months) and
very expensive, so LD50=92s exist for materials usually having a large
market interested in paying for the work.
LD50 data don=92t exist for a great many things, however Title 22 also
says that a waste is toxic if it has an aquatic 96-hour LC50 of 500 mg/L=
using (...fish of selected species - usually fathead minnows...) when
tested using a specified protocol. (CCR 66261.24 (6) .. and badly
paraphrased , sorry.) This is the fish-kill we fondly refer to
around here.
Yes, aquatic toxicity can be used to make a hazardous waste
determination. This lab test is moderately priced and takes about 1
week to get an answer. Such is the California culture of hazardous
waste.
So, how do I use all this?
Sometimes I am presented with a waste material for which there are no
published LD50 data I can find, and it isn=92t on any of the lists. =20
Usually the amount of waste material is too small to justify the cost of=
the fish-kill test. If there aren=92t any other obvious hazards, and t=
he
amount is less than 55 gallons (ballpark number), I will summarily call
it toxic hazardous waste - no lab testing. There is also an
additional Haz Cat procedure (for the other hazards) I usually run on
these myself. I use 55 gallons as a soft threshold in this case
because the cost of the fish-kill test is about the same as the disposal=
cost for many kinds of my waste in the 55 gallon size. It doesn=92t
make sense to spend around $230 to test a bottle of waste that will cost=
$25 to summarily bless as hazardous waste and manage appropriately. =20
If the waste stream is big enough to justify the cost of the fish-kill (=
example is our 2000 gallon tank of pesticide rinsate) I will pay for a
fish-kill test to make and defend ( if needed) a determination of
Non-hazardous waste. The difference in disposal cost (between
hazardous and Non) can be thousands of dollars, which justifies spending=
a couple of hundred on the fish-kill test.
To answer the question on everyone=92s mind, "Why is he managing those
bottles as hazardous waste when the material might not be?"
This section of Title 22 has a paragraph ( I don=92t recall the citation=
-
I=92m at home) which says that if a generator incorrectly determines a
waste to be non-hazardous and subsequently fails to manage the waste as
hazardous, that generator is subject to enforcement action. =20
There is also a nearby section in Title 22 which says that, in the case
where a waste doesn=92t clearly fit into any of the pigeon holes defined=
therein, the Department (DTSC) may designate a waste as hazardous if it
feels the waste should nevertheless be managed that way. =20
At Cal Poly, if a waste stream is large enough to be a big ticket item (=
that rinsate tank liquid can cost $6000 to pump and send away), and if I=
can get it to pass a fish kill, I need that lab report to show why we
are managing a truckload of pesticide-derived material as
non-hazardous. By the way, since this is pesticide-derived material,
we do ship it as non-hazardous liquid to a facility which runs it
through carbon absorption. We have chosen not to flush to the sewer
something we call "PESTICIDE RINSATE". The Non-hazardous disposal is
pricey but cheaper than Hazardous, and the requirements for
non-hazardous management are a lot easier.
And, thanks also to Debbie Decker for our newest category. I am setting=
up additional secondary containment in my Haz Mat building for "Bizarro
Waste". I like it.
Thanks for listening.
Michael Ahler, CHO
Risk Management
Cal Poly
San Luis Obispo, California