LABSAFETY-L Archives 9803 March 1998
Use your browser's Find command to search for a word or phrase
Please contact swihart@purdue.edu if you know of a
way to sort the archives
Gibberish passages are attachments, they do not archive well!
HTML tags in list messages also do not always archive well.
A double line as immediately below indicates the beginning of a new message
==================================
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 06:19:32 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Tell Your Colleagues About NACHO
Comments: To: Safety <SAFETY@UVMVM.UVM.EDU>,
ncsc-approval@majordomo.srv.ualberta.ca,
"Nat'l.al Assn. for Res. in Sci. Teaching"
<NARST-L@science.coe.uwf.edu>,
dchas-l@siu.edu, chemlab_L@vax1.bemidji.msus.edu,
chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu, CHEMCOM@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU,
APCHEM-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
To: NACHO Members
From: Jim Kaufman
The National Association of Chemical Hygiene Officer is
celebrating its one month anniversary with over 200 members
(full and affiliate). Please tell your colleagues about the new
organization and the opportunity for focused discussion on lab
safety/CHO/CHP issues here at LABSAFETY-L
Joining NACHO is simple (if I hadn't gotten it so wrong in earlier
messages... sorry!). All you need to do is.....
1. Send a message to: LISTSERV@SIU.EDU
2. Make the title of the message: Join NACHO
3. In the body of the message say (only):
SUB LABSAFETY-L Your Name
Please forward this message to anyone who might be interested
in joining with other colleagues to talk about labsafety/cho/chp
issues. Ask them if they have heard about the new organization
Remember, the first public meeting of NACHO is scheduled for
Wednesday, June 24, 1998 from 6-9pm in Raleigh-Durham in
conjunction with the LS&EM98 meeting. The exact location
will be listed here in the future. All are welcome and there is
no charge or registration fee for the NACHO meeting.
Between now and then, it is important for us to develop an
agenda for the meeting. What subject would you like to have
discussed? ...jak
==================================
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 07:44:00 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Robert Alaimo <alaimo.rj@PG.COM>
Subject: Re: Tell Your Colleagues About NACHO
Message authorized by:
: /S=labsafe@aol.com/OU=SMTP/O=1.UCN.GO.31/P=PROCTERGAMBLE/A=MCI/C=US/ at CC
To Jim or Eric,
Why not use the NACHO forum as promoter for Chemical Health & Safety Magazine.
Suggest it is the perfect resource for CHO's.
Bob Alaimo
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Tell Your Colleagues About NACHO
Author: (INTERNET)labsafety-l@siu.edu at external
Date: 3/3/98 6:19 AM
To: NACHO Members
From: Jim Kaufman
The National Association of Chemical Hygiene Officer is
celebrating its one month anniversary with over 200 members
(full and affiliate). Please tell your colleagues about the new
organization and the opportunity for focused discussion on lab
safety/CHO/CHP issues here at LABSAFETY-L
Joining NACHO is simple (if I hadn't gotten it so wrong in earlier
messages... sorry!). All you need to do is.....
1. Send a message to: LISTSERV@SIU.EDU
2. Make the title of the message: Join NACHO
3. In the body of the message say (only):
SUB LABSAFETY-L Your Name
Please forward this message to anyone who might be interested
in joining with other colleagues to talk about labsafety/cho/chp
issues. Ask them if they have heard about the new organization
Remember, the first public meeting of NACHO is scheduled for
Wednesday, June 24, 1998 from 6-9pm in Raleigh-Durham in
conjunction with the LS&EM98 meeting. The exact location
will be listed here in the future. All are welcome and there is
no charge or registration fee for the NACHO meeting.
Between now and then, it is important for us to develop an
agenda for the meeting. What subject would you like to have
discussed? ...jak
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:03:11 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Frank H. Lankewicz" <flankewi@SEWANEE.EDU>
Subject: ADVANCED JOB POSTING
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The following job posting is a new position within the Office of
Environmental Health and Safety at The University of the South.
Please see web site for more information on The University of the South
(www.sewanee.edu)
The Environmental Health and Safety office of The University of the South
is seeking a Laboratory Compliance Manger/Chemical Hygiene Officer to
implement the University's Chemical Hygiene Plan and Laboratory Safety
Standards to the Science departments and the University at large. This
person will also work on other environmental health and safety issues as
requested by the Director of Environmental Health and Safety Office.
The ideal individual should have experience with the functions of academic
laboratories at small college or University and methods of communicating a
Chemical Hygiene Plan and Laboratory Safety Standards to faculty,
laboratory technicians and students.
Classification Title: LABORATORY COMPIANCE MANAGER/
CHEMICAL HYGIENE OFFICER
Effective Date: TO BE ANNOUNCED
Primary Function: IMPLEMENTATION OF THE CHEMICAL HYGIENE PLAN
Typical Duties & Responsibilities
PROVIDE TECHNICAL GUIDANCE AND INFORMATION IN THE DEVELOPMENT AND
IMPLEMENTATION OF THE PROVISIONS OF THE CHEMICAL HYGIENE PLAN
LEARN AND OVERSEE THE USE OF THE COMPUTERIZED INVENTORY DATA
SYSTEM CALL CHEMMIST.
OVERSEE THE CHEMICAL INVENTORY PROGRAM
ASSURE LABORATORY WASTES ARE PROPER DISCARDED
COORDINATE THE MSDS PROGRAM
MOMITOR THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS CONCERNING HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCE,
OSHA, HAZARDOUS COMMUNICATION STANDARD, EPA REGULATIONS AND THE LABORATORY
STAMDARD
CONDUCT FORMAL CHEMICAL HYGIENE HOUSE KEEPING INSPECTIONS
SEEKS WAYS TO IMPROVE THE CHEMICAL HYGIENE PROGRAM
PROVIDE APPLICABLE INFORMATION AND TRAINING CONCERNING THE CONTENTS
OF THE CHEMICAL HYGIENE PLAN IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE LABORATORY
INSTRUCTOR
KEEP THE EHS OFFICE INFORMED OF ISSUES RELATING TO THE CHEMICAL
HYGIENE PLAN
CHECK EMERGENCY EQUIPMENT SUCH AS SPILL KITS AND EYE/SHOWER WASHES
ADVISE THE DIRECTOR OF EHS , DEAN, AND DEPARTMENT CHAIRS, ON
MATTERS OF CHEMICAL SAFETY POLICES AND PRACTICES
MAINTAIN A RESOURCE FILE OF REFERANCE PUBICATIONS ON SAFETY MATTERS
ENSURE ACTION IS TAKEN TO CORRECT LABORAYORY PRACTICES AND
CONDITIONS IDENTIFIED AS UNACCEPTABLE ON LABORATORY EVALUATIONS AND SAFETY
INSPECTIONS
Education: BACHELOR'S DEGREE IN RELATED FIELD
Experience: 1 YEAR ACADEMIC OR BUSINESS, RELAEVANT
EXPERIENCE WITH CHEMICAL SAFETY,HAZARDOUS WASTE DISPOSAL IN
ACADEMIC ENVIRONMENT
SEND RESUME TO:
______________________________
Frank H. Lankewicz
Director
Environmental Health & Safety
The University of the South
735 University Avenue
Sewanee, TN 37383-1000
Ph: 931/598-1916
Fax: 931/598-1745
email: flankewi@sewanee.edu
==================================
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 16:06:23 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Diana Harding <DHARDING@MAIL.NYSED.GOV>
Subject: Fwd: NACHO INTRO -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
I would be interested in the lab safety guidelines..... what the heck send
any pertinent info to:
Diana K. Harding
674 EBA
New York State Education Department
Albany NY 12234
==================================
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 07:41:29 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Prior Approval
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
The Lab Standard asks employers to define in their CHPs
the circumstances requiring prior approval.
What are the circumstances that your employer requires
prior approval in your CHP?
I'll compile a summary of your comments and post it back to
LABSAFETY-L for you to use in "reviewing at least annually
and updating as needed". ...jak
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:10:37 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Harry Elston <helston@FGI.NET>
Subject: Re: Prior Approval
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:41 AM 3/4/98 EST, you wrote:
>The Lab Standard asks employers to define in their CHPs
>the circumstances requiring prior approval.
>
>What are the circumstances that your employer requires
>prior approval in your CHP?
>
>I'll compile a summary of your comments and post it back to
>LABSAFETY-L for you to use in "reviewing at least annually
>and updating as needed". ...jak
Jim,
We've given considerable thought to this and this is what we came up with
at IDNS:
"Employees must obtain prior approval to proceed with a non-routine task
involving hazardous material or equipment. Prior approval shall not be
given until each employee assigned to the non-routine task has received a
safety briefing of the hazards associated with the task. Such a briefing
shall be given by the applicable Division Chief or senior staff member
specifically designated to provide such briefings. Non-routine tasks for a
specific employee occur whenever:
a. He is requested to perform a new procedure, process or test,
even if it is similar to older processes. (Note: Any new procedure is
subject to peer review from both a scientific and safety standpoint to
assure all precautions are in place prior to implementation).
b. There is a change or substitution of ingredient chemicals in a
procedure.
c. There is a substantial change in the amount of chemicals used.
Usually a review of safety practices should be done if the volume/mass of
chemicals used increases by more than 25%.
d. There is a failure of any of the equipment used in the process,
especially safeguards such as fume hoods or clamp apparatus.
e. Employees become ill, suspect chemical exposure, smell
chemicals or otherwise suspect a failure of engineered safeguards.
In other words, if you haven't used it before or haven't done it before,
you must seek prior approval."
There it is in all it's glory. Hope that helps.
Harry
Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO
Chemical Hygiene Officer
Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety
Opinions are mine, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah
"Apparent cause of death...hmmmm...that's an easy one"
-Texas coroner, X-Files.
==================================
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:52:17 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "DAVID L. PERRAM" <dlperram@MTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Prior Approval
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The following is our section on prior approval, if you have comments please
feel free to tell me.
6.0 Prior Approval of Laboratory Activities
6.1 Permit System
A permit system shall be used for laboratory activities which present
specific, foreseeable hazards to the employees. It is the responsibility
of principal investigators, facult laboratory stewards,
and laboratory supervisors to submit a Laboratory Operations Permit
Request Form, see Appendix U, for these activities. These activities
include sole occupancy of laboratory when not in
verbal contact with another knowledgeable employee and
hazardous operations are as outlined below. The permit entitled "Laboratory
Operations Permit" is Included in Appendix T to this
plan and shall be executed prior to the performance
of these activities
6.1.1. Hazardous Operations
6.1.1.1. Greater than 2.0 liters of organic solvent with a flash point of
less than 20oC is used,
6.1.1.2. More than 10 grams of reactive metal is used in one experiment,
6.1.1.3. Reagents know to be category I carcinogens are used (see
Appendix R for a complete list),
6.1.1.4. Materials that are explosive are generated or used in the
experiment,
6.1.1.5. Reaction has the potential to become uncontrolled,
6.1.1.6. Flammable or poisonous gas are used or produced (other than
carrier/detector gasses used on a gas chromatograph or fuel for the
atomic absorbance spectrophotometer),
6.1.1.7. Experiment is carried out at elevated pressures,
6.1.1.8. Project requires the use of pressure vessels (other than
purchased gas cylinders),
6.1.1.9. Radioisotopes are used in the experiment.
6.1.1.10. Unattended operations,
6.1.1.11. Children in laboratories, see Appendix S.
6.1.2 Sole Occupancy
At no time shall any work involving chemicals, mechanical equipment, or
electrical devices other than computers be performed in the laboratory when
the only person in the building with in hearing distance and knowledgeable
is the laboratory person performing the work, at least a second person
who is knowledgeable of the work must be in verbal contact with the
worker . Under unusual conditions, cross-checks, periodic Public Safety
checks, closed circuit television, or other measures may be taken when
permitted.
6.1.3 Hazardous Work
All hazardous operations, determination of hazardous by the Laboratory
Supervisor, Chemical Hygiene Officer, or as defined as a hazardous operation
above, are to be performed during a time when at least two personnel are
present at the laboratory. At no time shall a laboratory person, while
working alone in the laboratory, perform work which is considered hazardous.
6.1.3 Unattended Operations
When laboratory operations are performed which will be unattended by
laboratory personnel (continuous operations, overnight reactions, etc.), the
following procedures will be employed:
6.1.3.1 The permit system shall be utilized.
6.1.3.2 The laboratory supervisor will review work procedures to ensure
the safe completion of the operation.
6.1.3.3 An appropriate sign will be posted at all entrances to the
laboratory.
6.1.3.4 The overhead lights in the laboratory will be left on.
6.1.3.5 Precautions shall be made for the interruption of utility service
during the unattended operation (loss of water pressure, electricity, etc.).
6.1.3.6 The person responsible for the operation will return to the
laboratory at the conclusion of the operation to assist in the
dismantling of the apparatus.
At 07:41 AM 3/4/98 EST, you wrote:
>The Lab Standard asks employers to define in their CHPs
>the circumstances requiring prior approval.
>
>What are the circumstances that your employer requires
>prior approval in your CHP?
>
>I'll compile a summary of your comments and post it back to
>LABSAFETY-L for you to use in "reviewing at least annually
>and updating as needed". ...jak
>
>
>
David L. Perram
Research Scientist II
Civil and Environmental Engineering
Michigan Technological University
1400 Townsend Dr.
Houghton, MI 49931
Phone (906) 487-2713
Fax (906) 487-3292
Secretary Phone (906) 487-2098
==================================
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 07:10:20 -0800
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Neal Langerman <chemsaf@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Prior Approval
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:41 AM 3/4/98 EST, you wrote:
>The Lab Standard asks employers to define in their CHPs
>the circumstances requiring prior approval.
>
>What are the circumstances that your employer requires
>prior approval in your CHP?
>
>I'll compile a summary of your comments and post it back to
>LABSAFETY-L for you to use in "reviewing at least annually
>and updating as needed". ...jak
>
>
>
Jim:
Work at high pressure (hydrogenation reactions in a Parr Bomb, for example)
Work with any quantity of gas with a TLV less than 10 (arsine, phosphine,
diborane)
Work with known human pathogens
There is more, but this is a start...
Neal
*************************************************************
NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com
ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY
8909 Complex Drive
San Diego CA 92123-1418
619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX)
619 990 4908 (cellular)
visit our homepage: http:\\www.chemical-safety.com
*************************************************************
==================================
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:45:45 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Anne Skinner <Anne.R.Skinner@WILLIAMS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Prior Approval
In-Reply-To: <78b5ca73.34fd4bfb@aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The only experimental protocols that require prior approval are those
involving human blood (or other potentially infectious material). This may
partly be because as an undergraduate institution the work being done is
less likely to be "exciting" (i.e. dangerous) as research institutions.
We do have separate a radiation safety committee that approves any use of
radioactive material. That is a requirement of our radiation license and
predates the CHP. It is referenced in the CHP.
Anne Skinner
/O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\
Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si
\O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/
Dr. Anne Skinner
Chemistry Department, Williams College
47 Lab Campus Drive
Williamstown, MA 01267
anne.r.skinner@williams.edu
Phone: (413) 597-2323
Fax No: (413) 597-4116
/O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\
Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si
\O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/
==================================
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:23:01 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: MR HOWARD W SPENCER <UDSM01A@PRODIGY.COM>
Subject: Prior Approval
this is a great question. At the research lab where I consult it is
left to the PI to determine if he/she needs additional approvals.
Using carcinogens however, requires approval of the CHO. We are just
now revising our CHP so this couldn't come at a better time thanks
Jim!!
==================================
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 20:14:45 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ADVANCED JOB POSTING
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Posting Job Openings here on LABSAFETY-L is a great use
of this forum. I hope others will be encouraged to do as Frank
has done. Thanks. ...jak
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 21:27:28 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO INTRO -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_889064849_boundary"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--part0_889064849_boundary
Content-ID: <0_889064849@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Diane,
Thanks for your interest in LSI. Here's the electronic version of our
Lab Safety Guidelines. Other information will be sent by regular mail
in 3-4 weeks.
Please contact us whenever you have lab safety questions or can share
a description of a lab accident.
LSI is a great source for all Laboratory and Occupational Safety Books
and Media. For example, the "Laboratory Safety Pocket Guide" edited by
Paul Mercier is the best new book (Genium, 211 pages, $14.00 list) is $12.60
from LSI (Save 10%). Clair Wood's "Safety in School Science Labs" is
excellent ($19.95). LSI just published the first volume of "Learning By
Accident", 500 examples of lab accidents. See what happens when you
break the rules ($19.95)! And, LSI members save an additional 10%.
When can we set up a schedule to do 10-12 one-day seminars around
New York State? We're ready! We've go five scheduled for Maine in '98.
Regards, ... Jim Kaufman
--part0_889064849_boundary
Content-ID: <0_889064849@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2>
Content-type: text/plain;
name="GUIDE.LSI"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Content-disposition: inline
<HTML><PRE>
<B> LABORATORY SAFETY GUIDELINES</B>
"Laboratory Safety Guidelines" were written while I worked
for the Dow Chemical Company in an attempt to share with schools,=
colleges, and universities what I was learning about lab safety. =
In 1976, Dow sent copies to 2,000 colleges and university chemis-
try departments and received requests for 250,000 reprints!
In 1986, I assisted Dow with a revision of the guidelines.
Dow sent this version to 10,000 high school chemistry teachers.
Since then, over two million copies have been distributed and
reprinted in various forms.
Most recently, I revised the guidelines in 1997 for Fisher
Scientific to make a "Laboratory Safety Yardstick... How does
your lab safety program measure up?" Five thousand copies
were printed in the first edition.
The Laboratory Safety Workshop offers these suggestions for
improving laboratory safety because we believe that having an
understanding of inherent hazards and learning how to be safe
should be an integral and important part of science education,
work, and life.
Steps Requiring Minimal Expense
1. Have a written health, safety and environmental affairs
(HS&E) policy statement.
2. Organize a departmental HS&E committee of employees,
management, faculty, staff and students which will meet
regularly to discuss HS&E issues.
3. Develop an HS&E orientation for all new employees and
students.
4. Encourage employees and students to care about their health
and safety and that of others.
5. Involve every employee and student in some aspect of the
safety program and give each specific responsibilities.
6. Provide incentives to employees and students for safety
performance.
7. Require all employees to read the appropriate safety
manual. Require students to read the institution's
laboratory safety rules. Have both groups sign a statement
that they have done so, understand the contents, and agree
to follow the procedures and practices. Keep these state-
ments on file in the department office.
8. Conduct periodic, unannounced laboratory inspections to
identify and correct hazardous conditions and unsafe prac-
tices. Involve students and employees in simulated OSHA
inspections.
9. Make learning how to be safe an integral and important part
of science education, your work, and your life.
10. Schedule regular departmental safety meetings for all
students and employees to discuss the results of inspections=
and aspects of laboratory safety.
11. Require every prelab/pre-experiment discussion to include =
consideration of the health and safety aspects.
12. Forbid working alone in any laboratory and working without
prior knowledge of a staff member.
13. Don't allow experiments to run unattended unless they are
failsafe.
14. When conducting experiments with hazards or potential haz-
ards, ask yourself these questions:
What are the hazards?
What are the worst possible things that could go wrong?=
How will I deal with them?
What are the prudent practices, protective facilities
and equipment necessary to minimize the risk of
exposure to the hazards?
15. Require that all accidents (incidents) be reported, evaluat-
ed by the departmental safety committee, and discussed at
departmental safety meetings.
16. Extend the safety program beyond the laboratory to the
automobile and the home.
17. Allow only minimum amounts of flammable liquids in each
laboratory.
18. Forbid smoking, eating and drinking in the laboratory.
19. Do no allow food to be stored in chemical refrigerators.
20. Develop plans and conduct drills for dealing with emergen-
cies such as fire, explosion, poisoning, chemical spill or
vapor release, electric shock, bleeding and personal contam-
ination.
21. Display the phone numbers of the fire department, police
department, and local ambulance either on or immediately
next to every phone.
22. Store acids and bases separately. Store fuels and oxidizers=
separately.
23. Maintain a chemical inventory to avoid purchasing unneces-
sary quantities of chemicals.
24. Use warning signs to designate particular hazards.
25. Require good housekeeping practices in all work areas.
26. Develop specific work practices for individual experiments,
such as those that should be conducted only in a ventilated
hood or involve particularly hazardous chemicals. When
possible most hazardous experiments should be done in a
hood.
Steps Requiring Moderate Expense
27. Allocate a portion of the departmental budget to safety.
28. Require the use of appropriate eye protection at all times-
in a laboratories and areas where chemicals are transported.=
29. Provide adequate supplies of personal protective equipment -=
safety glasses, goggles, face shields, gloves, lab coats,
and bench top shields.
30. Provide fire extinguishers, safety showers, eye wash
foutains, first aid kits, fire blankets and fume hoods in
each laboratory and test or check monthly.
31. Maintain a centrally located departmental safety library:
* "Safety in Academic Chemistry Laboratories"
American Chemical Society, 1155 16th St., N.W.,
Washington, DC 20036
* "Fire Protection Guide on Hazardous Materials"
National Fire Protection Association, Battery-
march Park, Quincy, MA 02269
* "Manual of Safety and Health Hazards in the
School Science Laboratory"
"Safety in the School Science Laboratory"
"School Science Laboratories: A guide to
some Hazardous Substances" Council of State
Science Supervisors, Route 2, Box 637, Lancaster
VA 22503
* "Handbook of Laboratory Safety", 4th edition, CRC
Press, 2000 Corporate Boulevard, N.W., Boca Raton,
FL 33431
* "Prudent Practices in the Laboratory: Handling and
Disposal of Hazardous Chemicals", 2nd Edition, 1995
"Biosafety in the Laboratory", National Academy
Press, 2101 Constitution Avenue, N.W., Washington,
DC 20418
* "Safety in School Science Labs", Clair Wood, 1994,
Kaufman & Associates, 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA
01760
* "The Laboratory Safety Pocket Guide", 1996, Genium
Publisher, 1 Genium Plaza, Schnectady, NY
* "Learning By Accident", volume 1, 1997, The Laborator=
y
Safety Workshop, Natick, MA 01760
(All of these books are available from The Laboratory
Safety Workshop.)
32. Provide guards on all vacuum pumps and secure all compressed=
gas cylinders.
33. Provide an appropriate supply of first aid equipment and
instruction on its proper use.
34. Remove all electrical connections from inside chemical
refrigerators and require magnetic closures.
35. Require grounded plugs on all electrical equipment and
install ground fault interupters (GFI's) where appropriate.
36. Label all chemicals to show the name of the material, the
nature and degree of hazard, the appropriate precautions,
and the name of the person responsible for the container.
37. Develop a program for dating stored chemicals and for
recertifying or discarding them after predetermined maximum
periods of storage.
38. Develop a system for the legal, safe and ecologically
acceptable disposal of chemical wastes.
39. Provide fireproof cabinets for storage of flammable
chemicals.
40. Provide secure, adequately spaced, well ventilated storage
of chemicals.
An expanded version of "Laboratory Safety Guidelines" with a
200-500 word discussion of each of the guidelines is available
from The Laboratory Safety Workshop for $10.00. The Guidelines
are also available in a two-color, 2'x3' poster for $ 5.00. All
requests should be prepaid and include 8% shipping and handling
($3.50 minumum).
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
email:labsafe@aol.com; 508-647-1900; fax 508-647-0062
<B>About the author ...</B>
Dr. James Kaufman is President of The Laboratory Safety Workshop
and President of Kaufman & Associates. He received his bachelors
degree in chemistry from Tufts University and his doctorate in organic
chemistry from WPI.
After two years as a post-doctoral fellow in the WPI Chemical Engineering
Department converting garbage into fuel oil, Dr. Kaufman joined the Dow
Chemical Company's New England Research Laboratory as a Process
Research Chemist. During his four years with Dow, he became increasingly=
involved in laboratory safety related activities. He authored "Laborator=
y
Safety Guidelines". Originally distributed by Dow, now over two million
copies of the widely-requested and reprinted brochure are in circulation.=
Dr. Kaufman is the founder and president of The "Laboratory Safety
Workshop" - a national, non-profit center for health, safety and environm=
ental
affairs. LSI's lectures and training programs, av lending library, and
publications help academic institutions throughout the world. LSI is
supported by grants from individuals, foundations, companies and
professional societies.
As a safety consultant, his company, Kaufman & Associates, conducts
seminars, short courses, audits and inspections for schools, colleges, an=
d
companies. They also provide expert witness testimony, advice on regulato=
ry compliance, safety program development, facilities design and editoria=
l
commentary on laboratory texts.
Dr. Kaufman is a former member of the American Chemical Society's
(ACS) Council Committee on Chemical Safety and is past-chairman of the
ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety. He is the author-narrator of=
the ACS Audio Course on Laboratory Safety and editor of "Waste Disposal
at Academic Institutions" from Lewis Publishers. Most recently he record=
ed
and edited the "One-Day Laboratory Safety Audio Seminar" and "Two-Day
Lab Safety Video Course."
</P><P ALIGN=3DCENTER><B>Introducing The Laboratory Safety Workshop
...</=
B>
</P><P ALIGN=3DLEFT>
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a non-profit organization whose mission
is to make health and safety an integral and important part of science
education, work, and life. LSI provides training, publications, audio-vi=
sual
materials, and responds to requests for information.
LSI was founded in 1980 by James A. Kaufman, Ph.D., Laboratory Safety
Consultant and former Chemistry Professor at Curry College. His experien=
ce
working for the Dow Chemical Company convinced him that schools and
colleges were not doing enough to encourage health and safety (I learned
more about lab safety on my first day at Dow that I had in 24 years in sc=
hool!).
Studies by LSI and others have shown the accident rate at schools and
colleges to be 100 to 1000 times that of Dow and DuPont.
Since 1980, Dr Kaufman has trained nearly 30,000 science educators
and scientists. His brand of safety training is a unique blend of techni=
cal
information, practical and inexpensive solutions, humor, and accounts of
accidents drawn from a collection of over 4,000 examples.
LSI has produced two lab safety training audio-visuals:
The One-Day Lab Safety Audio Course (5.5 hours) and ...
The Two-Day Lab Safety Video Short Course (eight, 90-minute
VHS Cassettes)
LSI Publishes two newsletters: "Speaking of Safety" and "Safety is
Elementary". Annual subscriptions cost $15.00.
LSI will offer several training programs this year ....
1988 .....
January 8, Princeton, NJ New Safety '98
January 31, Framingham, MA FSC 1-Day Seminar for Students
February 12, West Newton, MA Mass Dept of Labor 1-Day Seminar
March 27, Dallas, TX ACS National Meeting 1-Day Seminar
April 8, Bangor, ME Maine Safety Council 1-Day Seminar
April 9, Portland, ME Maine Safety Council 1-Day Seminar
April 23, S. Padre Island, TX SW Assn Forensic Scientists 1-Day =
Seminar
Spring '98, New Hampshire and Massachusetts, Five, one-day seminars
for undergraduates and graduate students
May 30, Philadelphia, PA, American Institute of Chemists 1-Day Semi=
nar
June 17-20, San Marcos, TX 24-Hour Short Course .. Secondary
June 22, Raleigh-Durham, NC LS&EM'98 1-Day Seminar
July 8, Reno, NV UNV-Reno 24-Hour Short Course ... College/Univ
July 15, Boston, MA Northeastern Univ. 24-Hour Short Course .. seco=
ndary
July 26, Portland, ME NAOSMM Meeting One-day Seminar
July 29-Aug 1, Charleston, SC National Training Conf. .. College/Un=
iv.
August 17, Pittsburgh, PA Carnegie Mellon Univ. 1-Day Student sem=
inar
August '98, Boston, MA ACS National Meeting 1-Day Seminar
August '98, Canada 15th BCCE 1-Day Seminar
September 3, Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation 1-Day Seminar
October 1 and 3, Augusta, ME State Dept of Ed, two, one-day seminar=
s
October '98, Connecticut Two 1-Day Seminars
November 5, Oklahoma Bureau of Investigation 1-Day Seminar
November '98, Birmingham, AL NSTA Regional Meeting 1-Day Seminar
Please contact LSI for a complete listing of events.
LSI is supported by corporate sponsors, agencies, associations, generous
individuals, its members. Members receive a newsletter subscription, use
of the audio-visual lending library without rental fee, a 10% discount on
most LSI publications, and use of the Toll Free, 24-hour Lab Safety
Information Hotline. Annual membership is $30.00 for individuals at non-
profit organizations (schools, colleges, etc.) and $200.00 for for-profit
corporations.
The Journal of Chemical Education called The Laboratory Safety Workshop
"A national resource for safety conscious science teachers".
If you would like to help support the efforts of The Laboratory Safety
Workshop:
1. Subscribe to "Speaking of Safety"
2. Become a member of LSI (partially tax deductible)
3. Make a contribution (tax deductible)
For more information about LSI, contact:
The Laboratory Safety Workshop, 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
email:labsafe@aol.com; 508-647-1900; fax 508-647-0062 www:LabSafety.org
(under construction)
***************
</PRE></HTML>
--part0_889064849_boundary--
==================================
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:13:02 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Dennis Edwards <Dedwards@MAIL.COLGATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: NACHO INTRO -Reply
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain
Jim - When you schedule NY State, we (Colgate) would like to
participate.
Dennis Edwards
Environmental Health and Safety Coordinator
Colgate University
SB-4 McGregory Hall
Hamilton, NY 13346
315-228-7994
http://offices.colgate.edu/chemmgt/
> ----------
> From: Labsafe[SMTP:Labsafe@AOL.COM]
> Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 9:27 PM
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: Re: NACHO INTRO -Reply
>
> <<File: GUIDE.LSI.txt>>
> Hi Diane,
>
> Thanks for your interest in LSI. Here's the electronic version of our
> Lab Safety Guidelines. Other information will be sent by regular mail
> in 3-4 weeks.
>
> Please contact us whenever you have lab safety questions or can share
> a description of a lab accident.
>
> LSI is a great source for all Laboratory and Occupational Safety Books
> and Media. For example, the "Laboratory Safety Pocket Guide" edited
> by
> Paul Mercier is the best new book (Genium, 211 pages, $14.00 list) is
> $12.60
> from LSI (Save 10%). Clair Wood's "Safety in School Science Labs" is
> excellent ($19.95). LSI just published the first volume of "Learning
> By
> Accident", 500 examples of lab accidents. See what happens when you
> break the rules ($19.95)! And, LSI members save an additional 10%.
>
> When can we set up a schedule to do 10-12 one-day seminars around
> New York State? We're ready! We've go five scheduled for Maine in
> '98.
>
> Regards, ... Jim Kaufman
>
>
==================================
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 10:52:20 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Harvard Continuing Education <Contedu@SPH.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Safety Cabinets Certification Course at Harvard
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
At the Harvard School of Public Health:
Testing and Certification of Biological Safety Cabinets
June 15 - 19, 1998
Course Directors: Melvin W. First, ScD, PE, CIH; Stephen N. Rudnick, ScD,
CIH; John M. Price, MS, CIH, CSP
This course covers all aspects of biosafety cabinet field certification.
You will develop thorough knowledge of the instruments needed for
accurate certification, including calibration techniques that can be
applied by equipment users. You will work with full-scale equipment in
simulated field situations during two days of hands-on experience in the
laboratory with individual attention from faculty and laboratory
instructors. Class II cabinets (Types A, B1, B2, B3) from major
manufacturers are available for individual instruction and for practice
of all certification tests. The NSF written and practical examinations
are offered immediately following the program.
Of Related Interest: Guidelines for Laboratory Design: health and Safety
Considerations, April 6-10, 1998
For a complete course brochure and agenda, reply to
contedu@sph.harvard.edu with your full mailing address.
Center for Continuing Professional Education (contedu@sph.harvard.edu)
Harvard School of Public Health
677 Huntington Avenue, LL-23
Boston, MA 02115-6096
Phone: (617) 432-1171
Fax: (617) 432-1969
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/ccpe/ccpe.html
==================================
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 15:22:53 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Mark Smith <smithme@ALPHA.HENDRIX.EDU>
Subject: Cylinder location
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
We recently had a safety consultantadvise us to locate our flamable gas
cylinders (Hydrogen and acetylene) outside of the building and have the
gases piped into the instrument locations (GC and AA).
1. Does anyone have any experience with this type of set up or advice to do so?
2. Any comments on the practicality of this advice?
3. Are there any regualtions which suggest this arrangement?
Mark Smith
CHO
Hendrix College
Conway, AR
==================================
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 16:39:52 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Chang, Jim C" <jcc11472@GLAXOWELLCOME.COM>
Subject: Re: Cylinder location
Comments: To: Mark Smith <smithme@ALPHA.HENDRIX.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Mark
In general, it's not a bad idea to do this if your logistics people can
support the external locations.
Myself, I would look at how great a risk the cylinders inside are, before I
committed to doing this. Your local Fire Marshal can also give you some
insight - for example, if you exceed the exempt quantities of H2, you may
need to place them outside or consider expensive mods.
One item you may wish to do is have restrictive orifices installed in the H2
cylinders. This would minimize the effect of a line failure.
Jim Chang
Safety Engineer
Glaxo Wellcome Inc.
----------
From: Mark Smith [SMTP:smithme@ALPHA.HENDRIX.EDU]
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 1998 4:23 PM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Cylinder location
We recently had a safety consultantadvise us to locate our flamable
gas
cylinders (Hydrogen and acetylene) outside of the building and have
the
gases piped into the instrument locations (GC and AA).
1. Does anyone have any experience with this type of set up or
advice to do so?
2. Any comments on the practicality of this advice?
3. Are there any regualtions which suggest this arrangement?
Mark Smith
CHO
Hendrix College
Conway, AR
==================================
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 14:55:16 -0700
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: John Delahunt <Jdelahunt@CC.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cylinder location
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain
> We recently had a safety consultantadvise us to locate our flamable
> gas
> cylinders (Hydrogen and acetylene) outside of the building and have
> the
> gases piped into the instrument locations (GC and AA).
>
Bah. Of course, this is preferable if "outside" is nearby and the
instruments are going to stay where they are forever. Otherwise, this
introduces a long pipe pressurized with flammable gas coursing
throughout the building, like house gas, except without the solenoid
cutoffs and the obvious outside gas shutoff, and with no odorant.
> 1. Does anyone have any experience with this type of set up or advice
> to do so?
>
We looked at plumbing our propylene cyliders for fusion of XRF samples
in from outside, and ended up stalling long enough on it that we'll do
it on the new building. Our design had many safety features built in.
And it looked like it was going to be a pain.
But, here's the retrofit concept we developed:
Propylene is outside, manifolded to maintain pressure in cold weather.
Always 2 tanks on the manifold, a third spare for swapping when needed.
Pressure gauges from manifolded tanks, and the manifold, read outdoors
and in. Fail-closed electronic valves outside keep the pressure inside
low during power outages. Downstream of that, a fail-closed pressure
valve (actuated by nitrogen) keeps the pressure inside low during idle
times. The N2 is piped to the pressure actuated valve with rubber hose,
to serve as a fusible link for supply cutout during fire inside the
fusion lab. Propylene is piped to a barbed nipple and valved in the
fusion fume hood, which valve must be manually opened for gas to flow
(that part just like house gas).
So there are three valves between the tanks and the user, one automatic
and failsafe (electronic), one semi-automatic and failsafe (pressure)
and one manual and fail-unsafe (manual). This entailed a lot of
plumbing, moving a shed, buying two extra bottles of proplyene, buying a
lot of expensive valving, installing a nitrogen tank in a tiny lab (with
no compressed air of its own), and all because I sorta kinda didn't
think it was a good idea to have a big ol' bottle of propylene in the
basement.
> 2. Any comments on the practicality of this advice?
>
I think it's a very viable concept, with no existing structures to work
around. Our new building will prolly end up with the propylene plumbed
in from outdoors, but the K and L cylinders of H2 and C2H2 inside,
because the fusion lab stays with the XRay eq't, but the other
analytical stuff is pretty mobile (relatively).
> 3. Are there any regualtions which suggest this arrangement?
>
Fire code. UFC Section 80. Dunno about NFPA.
John
Hope this helps.
John DeLaHunt, EH&S Manager
The Colorado College
1125 Glen Avenue
Colorado Springs, CO 80905
(719)389-6678 vox
(719)389-6981 fax
jdelahunt@cc.colorado.edu
==================================
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:58:28 -1000
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Peter Batsakis <batsakis@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Heat sources used in distillations.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dear Colleagues,
I'm meeting some resistance from our Chemistry Department
regarding the use of open flames in distillation procedures. I am
especially concerned when flammable chemicals such as solvents are present
during the distillations. My research indicates that other heat sources
are recommended. These other sources include electric mantles or heating
baths. My question is what do your chem labs use? Also, what techniques
might I apply to stubborn professors who do not want to change their
protocols? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Pete
**********************************************
Peter Batsakis
Chemical Hygiene Officer
University of Hawaii at Manoa
2040 East-West Road, Honolulu, Hawaii 96822
Phone: (808) 956-3201 FAX: (808) 956-3205
E-mail: batsakis@hawaii.edu
**********************************************
==================================
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 13:52:10 -0800
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Mike hinz <mhinz@WSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cylinder location
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Acetylene should never be piped more than a few feet! It is very unstable
and will not likely arrive at the other end of a long pipe as acetylene. It
is highly reactive with metals such as copper, lead and zinc, forming metal
acetylides which are contact explosives.
Tell your consultant to try again.
Mike Hinz
Chemistry Dept.
Washington State University
At 03:22 PM 3/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>We recently had a safety consultantadvise us to locate our flamable gas
>cylinders (Hydrogen and acetylene) outside of the building and have the
>gases piped into the instrument locations (GC and AA).
>
>1. Does anyone have any experience with this type of set up or advice to do so?
>
>2. Any comments on the practicality of this advice?
>
>3. Are there any regualtions which suggest this arrangement?
>
>
>Mark Smith
>CHO
>Hendrix College
>Conway, AR
>
>
==================================
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 15:17:21 -0700
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: John Delahunt <Jdelahunt@CC.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Heat sources used in distillations.
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain
> I'm meeting some resistance from our Chemistry Department
>regarding the use of open flames in distillation procedures.
Ack. In what century did they learn chemistry?
>I am
>especially concerned when flammable chemicals such as solvents are
present
>during the distillations. My research indicates that other heat
sources
>are recommended. These other sources include electric mantles or
heating
>baths. My question is what do your chem labs use?
We use heating mantles plugged into VariACs for most work, and sometimes
steam mantles for low-temp work.
On occasion we use high-boiling phthallate baths for really high-temp
work, mostly subliming.
Using flame around organics is asking for a fire. There not only has to
be a better way, there is.
Yikes.
> Also, what techniques
>might I apply to stubborn professors who do not want to change their
>protocols? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Ask legal counsel to comment on the concept of tenure as applied to
employees whose actions put the institution at risk of being found
liable to injured parties.
Introduce the concept of the Standard of Due (or Reasonable) Care.
Introduce some very old lab safety books that describe the better ways
to distill solvents.
Hope this helps.
John
John DeLaHunt, EH&S Manager
The Colorado College
1125 Glen Avenue
Colorado Springs, CO 80905
(719)389-6678 vox
(719)389-6981 fax
jdelahunt@cc.colorado.edu
==================================
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 15:18:39 -0700
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: John Delahunt <Jdelahunt@CC.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cylinder location
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain
> Tell your consultant to try again.
>
And, more important, tell us who your consultant was.
John
John DeLaHunt, EH&S Manager
The Colorado College
1125 Glen Avenue
Colorado Springs, CO 80905
(719)389-6678 vox
(719)389-6981 fax
jdelahunt@cc.colorado.edu
==================================
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 19:21:53 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: MR HOWARD W SPENCER <UDSM01A@PRODIGY.COM>
Subject: Cylinder location
Hi, I used to work for Exxon research in NJ and piping gases in from
outside was standard practice there. Also if the line went through a
non-lab area such as a hallway or office the line was coaxial (line
within a line) through that space. I am out of Exxon 12 years but I
would suggest you contact V.J. Siminski, he is on the NFPA 45
committee. Vince was my boss then and he is still there. I bet he
could give you more info. I bet Exxon R&E has a web page.
==================================
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 05:36:28 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Dean Flinchbaugh <0002daf@SYS1.BSCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Cylinder location
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD48C1.D345D8E0"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BD48C1.D345D8E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In the steel industry we typically support large tanks of
iquid argon =
outside for our optical emission spectrometers. I know of no such =
regulation for gases in general. For flammable gases, I would worry =
about problems associated with leak detection, loss of gas during tank =
exchange, and contamination of lines with air during tank replacement. =
We normally maintain such tanks in secure locations within the lab and =
maitain sufficient air exchange rates in the labs so that if a tank =
"lets go" there is sufficient air exchange to prevent the most serious =
kinds of consequences. I would not put my tanks outside. =20
Dean Flinchbaugh
Bethlehem Steel Corp.
Homer Research Labs
Bethlehem PA=20
ll ettl
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Smith [SMTP:smithme@ALPHA.HENDRIX.EDU]
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 1998 4:23 PM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Cylinder location
We recently had a safety consultantadvise us to locate our flamable gas
cylinders (Hydrogen and acetylene) outside of the building and have the
gases piped into the instrument locations (GC and AA).
1. Does anyone have any experience with this type of set up or advice to =
do so?
2. Any comments on the practicality of this advice?
3. Are there any regualtions which suggest this arrangement?
Mark Smith
CHO
Hendrix College
Conway, AR
------ =_NextPart_000_01BD48C1.D345D8E0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
==================================
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 08:10:41 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Wheeler Conover, Southeast CC" <ewcono0@POP.UKY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Heat sources used in distillations.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> I'm meeting some resistance from our Chemistry Department
>regarding the use of open flames in distillation procedures. I am
>especially concerned when flammable chemicals such as solvents are present
>during the distillations. My research indicates that other heat sources
>are recommended. These other sources include electric mantles or heating
>baths. My question is what do your chem labs use?
Heating mantles, hot plates, and sand baths are what I use here. I wouldn't
recommend silicon oil baths, as the silicon might catch fire, too.
Also, what techniques
>might I apply to stubborn professors who do not want to change their
>protocols? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
How about recruiting them to help you put out the multiple fires that will
occur in one day? Having faculty do something like that is generally not
found in their teaching contracts and makes them extremely upset. One other
tactic is to ban their protocols, since you are in essence a safety officer.
EWC
==================================
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 08:24:22 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Ian Fraser <igfraser@MC1ADM.UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Heat sources used in distillations.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The best thing that can happen to gas taps is they be shut off and removed.
No open flames in laboratories using flammible liquids. Ie organic labs.
The only place open flames are still used at UW is in Micro labs to heat
loops.
At 11:58 AM 05/03/98 -1000, you wrote:
>Dear Colleagues,
> I'm meeting some resistance from our Chemistry Department
>regarding the use of open flames in distillation procedures. I am
>especially concerned when flammable chemicals such as solvents are present
>during the distillations. My research indicates that other heat sources
>are recommended. These other sources include electric mantles or heating
>baths. My question is what do your chem labs use? Also, what techniques
>might I apply to stubborn professors who do not want to change their
>protocols? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Pete
>
>**********************************************
>Peter Batsakis
>Chemical Hygiene Officer
>University of Hawaii at Manoa
>2040 East-West Road, Honolulu, Hawaii 96822
>Phone: (808) 956-3201 FAX: (808) 956-3205
>E-mail: batsakis@hawaii.edu
>**********************************************
>
>
Thanks in advance.
Ian Fraser
Safety Office
University of Waterloo
200 University Ave. W.
Waterloo, ON
Canada, N2L 3G1
Phone (519) 888-4567 Ext 6268
Fax (519) 746-5023
Mailto:igfraser@mc1adm.uwaterloo.ca
http://www.adm.uwaterloo.ca/infohs/homepage.html
==================================
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 08:51:48 EDT
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Jennifer Reader <JENNIFER@EHS.UOGUELPH.CA>
Organization: Environmental Health and Safety
Subject: cylinder piping
Our art welding shop has the cylinders outside the building and
the gas is piped into the shop. The cylinder are directly
outside the shop - the gas isn't piped very far. This was a
code requirement (to have them outside).
Jennifer Reader, B.S., M.S.P.H.
Hazardous Materials Safety Officer
Environmental Health and Safety
University of Guelph
Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1 Canada
519-824-4120 X3190 Fax 519-824-0364
e-Mail jennifer@ehs.uoguelph.ca
==================================
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 08:54:13 -0000
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "L. James Stock III" <34EMQ6K@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Heat sources used in distillations.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
We use metal heating manthles from Laboratory Craftsman, 2925 Bartells
Dr.PO Box 148, Beloit, WI., 53511
==================================
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 09:15:08 EDT
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Jennifer Reader <JENNIFER@EHS.UOGUELPH.CA>
Organization: Environmental Health and Safety
Subject: Re: Heat sources used in distillations.
Further to this discussion, we (the safety office) have been
making it clear to the University community that chairs (and
deans) are responsible for safety in their departments and they
are responsible for setting up programs, managing recalcitrant
employees (including profs), and monitoring results. If things
go wrong, they are in the hot seat, not the safety office.
There is a real possibility that a chair could be personally
charged if there was a critical injury or other problem in
his/her area. And fines to go with it (not paid by the
University). This has gone a long way to waking them up. Now,
this is Ontario Canada; I don't know how the law operates in
your jurisdiction.
Then there is the old saw "would you want your 14-year-old
daughter/son working in this lab?"
Jennifer Reader, B.S., M.S.P.H.
Hazardous Materials Safety Officer
Environmental Health and Safety
University of Guelph
Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1 Canada
519-824-4120 X3190 Fax 519-824-0364
e-Mail jennifer@ehs.uoguelph.ca
==================================
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 14:05:49 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Heat sources used in distillations. -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Peter,
All we use bunsen burners for is Microbiology lab. In our experience, hot plates and sand
baths work much better for distillation and other chem experiments. I guess I was lucky in
that my chem profs wanted the new, higher tech heat sources. I just can not understand
what their rational is that makes them want to use a bunsen burner. Quite frankly, I would
just replace the burners with alternatives and get rid of the burners.
For what it is worth,
Janeen Lapierre, CHO.
==================================
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:25:13 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: MR HOWARD W SPENCER <UDSM01A@PRODIGY.COM>
Subject: Re: Cylinder location
Hydrogen with it's low flash point (4%) should not be stored indoors
in 1A cylinders. a catastrophic leak and explosion would release
tremendous energy. I have used critical orifices in the tanks and
high flow restricting valves in the supply lines either at the point
of use or in the line from the manifold. Outside storage of Acetylene
is a little trickier since it will not flow when the tank is cold so
needs to be in a penthouse enclosure or have a hi temp cut off 2 temp
electric belt resistence heater. there are also vendors who make gas
cabinets for use in clean rooms they have complex valve trains, built
in fire suppression and are vented. It the location is permanent they
work very well. there are lots of alternatives that are much safer
than a bare tank in the lab. Install an engineering control of some
sort!!!
==================================
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 22:46:02 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Neal Langerman <chemsaf@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Heat sources used in distillations. -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:05 PM 3/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Peter,
>All we use bunsen burners for is Microbiology lab. In our experience, hot
plates and sand baths work much better for distillation and other chem
experiments. I guess I was lucky in that my chem profs wanted the new,
higher tech heat sources. I just can not understand what their rational is
that makes them want to use a bunsen burner. Quite frankly, I would just
replace the burners with alternatives and get rid of the burners.
>
>For what it is worth,
>Janeen Lapierre, CHO.
>
>
As a chemist, I concur with elimination of flames in the labs. I am
currently trying to rationalize burners in micro labs, with the amount of
isopropyl alcohol they aso use. Unfortunately, as a group, they tend to be
sloppy with IPA and forget it is flammable. Clients have recently had
several fires.
How is this handled?
Neal
*********************************************
NEAL LANGERMAN
ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY
8909 C Complex Drive
San Diego, CA 92123-1002
619-874-5577
619-874-8239 (FAX)
chemsaf@ix.netcom.com
NEW and REVISED!
Visit our Home Page:
http://www.chemical-safety.com
The Source for the prevention of injury, illness
and environmental insult!
*********************************************
==================================
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 08:15:13 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Guy Innocente <innocent@ICI.NET>
Subject: Re: Heat sources used in distillations. -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:46 PM 3/7/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>As a chemist, I concur with elimination of flames in the labs. I am
>currently trying to rationalize burners in micro labs, with the amount of
>isopropyl alcohol they aso use. Unfortunately, as a group, they tend to be
>sloppy with IPA and forget it is flammable. Clients have recently had
>several fires.
>
>How is this handled?
>
>Neal
>*********************************************
>NEAL LANGERMAN
>ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY
>8909 C Complex Drive
>San Diego, CA 92123-1002
>619-874-5577
>619-874-8239 (FAX)
>chemsaf@ix.netcom.com
>
>NEW and REVISED!
>Visit our Home Page:
>http://www.chemical-safety.com
>
>The Source for the prevention of injury, illness
>and environmental insult!
>*********************************************
>
>
REPLY:
There are electric heaters (like mini furnaces), designed for loops and
needles in the micro lab.
Although not a flame, they are red hot to kill the organisims. They are not
perfect, but they are better than an open flame.
For fixing organisms to slides, there are slide warmers. They are slower
than using a flame to fix organisms to a slide, so you have to deal with the
people who "can't wait".
Guy Innocente
==================================
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:45:29 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Claudia Toback <cmtoback@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: SCIENCE LAB CLASS SIZE
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Dear Colleagues,
This quiry is directed to listserv members who are teaching in the hs and
middle school level:
Is there any mandates from OSHA that you are aware of that limit
the size a class in the science laboratory? If not, do any states or local
districts restrict the size of classes in a science laboratory setting?
Thanks,
Claudia Toback
==================================
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:38:10 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Comments: RFC822 error: <W> TO field duplicated. Last occurrence was
retained.
From: Claudia Toback <cmtoback@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: HEAT SOURCE
Comments: To: JENNIFER@EHS.UOGUELPH.CA
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On 03/06/98 09:15:08 you wrote:
>
>Further to this discussion, we (the safety office) have been
>making it clear to the University community that chairs (and
>deans) are responsible for safety in their departments and they
>are responsible for setting up programs, managing recalcitrant
>employees (including profs), and monitoring results. If things
>go wrong, they are in the hot seat, not the safety office.
>
>There is a real possibility that a chair could be personally
>charged if there was a critical injury or other problem in
>his/her area. And fines to go with it (not paid by the
>University). This has gone a long way to waking them up. Now,
>this is Ontario Canada; I don't know how the law operates in
>your jurisdiction.
>
>Then there is the old saw "would you want your 14-year-old
>daughter/son working in this lab?"
>
>
>
>
>Jennifer Reader, B.S., M.S.P.H.
>Hazardous Materials Safety Officer
>Environmental Health and Safety
>University of Guelph
>Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1 Canada
>519-824-4120 X3190 Fax 519-824-0364
>e-Mail jennifer@ehs.uoguelph.ca
>
>
A CALL FOR HELP!
Believe it or not, I am using alcohol lamps with my 6th and 8th graders
because there is only one gas outlet in the classroom. It is located at my
demo desk.
There are three electrical outlets in my room...two at the front (one at the
demo desk) and one in the back. When I need to give a lab which requires
lamps, I improvise!
At least I have running water; there are two science teachers (one in
licensed and the other common branches (K-8) who teach in rooms without
running water. Did I forget to mention that they have physical and Earth
science programs. Try to do hands-on lab activities in this type of
setting.
Lastly, the lab prep room has metal cabinets for chemicals. Recently they
were painted because of the rusting condition. The rust has returned. The
fire inspectors come to inspect, but are only interested in seeing that
every chemical bottle is labeled.
Our district is unique...we share a lab specialist between 2 middle schools.
In many other NYC districts, lab specialists are nonexistent in the middle
school. Many high schools are begging for specialists but cannot find any
that are qualifiied.
I am sure there are more horror stories. I have a few, but not for
publication.
Claudia Toback
==================================
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:53:31 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: SCIENCE LAB CLASS SIZE
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-08 16:47:00 EST, you write:
<< Is there any mandates from OSHA that you are aware of that limit
the size a class in the science laboratory? If not, do any states or local
districts restrict the size of classes in a science laboratory setting? >>
LSI published a report "There's No Safety In Numbers" which summarized
the literature in this area, the actions and recommendations of states, and
the good ideas of science educators to address these issues. LSI found
that Florida was one of the few states with a law specifying class size.
However, the provision for waiver made it too easy to avoid compliance ...jak
*****************************************************************
==================================
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 07:11:03 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: A Call For Help
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-08 17:38:42 EST, Claudia Toback wrote:
<< A CALL FOR HELP!
Believe it or not, I am using alcohol lamps with my 6th and 8th graders
because there is only one gas outlet in the classroom. It is located at my
demo desk.
There are three electrical outlets in my room...two at the front (one at the
demo desk) and one in the back. When I need to give a lab which requires
lamps, I improvise!
At least I have running water; there are two science teachers (one in
licensed and the other common branches (K-8) who teach in rooms without
running water. Did I forget to mention that they have physical and Earth
science programs. Try to do hands-on lab activities in this type of
setting.
Lastly, the lab prep room has metal cabinets for chemicals. Recently they
were painted because of the rusting condition. The rust has returned. The
fire inspectors come to inspect, but are only interested in seeing that
every chemical bottle is labeled.
Our district is unique...we share a lab specialist between 2 middle schools.
In many other NYC districts, lab specialists are nonexistent in the middle
school. Many high schools are begging for specialists but cannot find any
that are qualifiied.
I am sure there are more horror stories. I have a few, but not for
publication. >>
JAK: The conditions and circumstances in many public schools make the
safe teaching of science difficult.
Personally, I do not recommend against the use of alcohol burners. I
recommend their safe use by practicing the following five suggestions:
1. Have a metal cap for turning off the burner.
2. Use only those burners which are either physically stable or clamped to
avoid
tipping over and spills.
3. Do not refill burners during class. Replace empty burners with one which
were
previously filled.
4. Add a pinch of salt (sodium chloride) to the alcohol to make the flame more
visible.
5. The teacher should refill the empty burners in a fume hood after class.
Students need to learn the safe use of matches and flammable liquids. Alcohol
lamps
in science classes provide this opportunity.
Metal cabinets are rusting all over the country. One of the best ways to
reduce if not
eliminate this problem is the seal the caps on bottles using vinyl
electricians tape.
Usually it is the hydrochloric acid which it the primary culprit.
==================================
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 07:43:43 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Jacqueline Sheldon <jsheldon@ACCESS.K12.WV.US>
Subject: Re: SCIENCE LAB CLASS SIZE
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Our state (WV) has set guidelines for lab classes to only have 24 students
for liability issues.
Though our average here at schooll is under 24 per class, many of us still
have classes with up to 32 students. We were on a seven period day
previously and block scheduling now, it hasn't made any difference in class
sizes for science, other classes have increased in size.
Jacqueline Sheldon
Keyser High School
Rt 4 Box 110
Keyser, WV 26726
304-788-4230
==================================
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 07:37:01 PST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Michael L. Healy" <mhealy@WASC.NOAA.GOV>
Subject: Re: A Call For Help
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Dear Labsafe: My network will not continue to allow all this incoming
E-mail. Is there a way to receive your announcements, but be removed from
the live mail list. I would be interested in occassionally scanning the
live mail if you archive it. Please tell me if there is a procedure.
michael.l.healy@noaa.gov Hazardous Materials Coordinator e-mail:
mhealy@wasc.noaa.gov phone(206)526-4327 page 916-2733
==================================
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 08:10:37 -0800
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Clay Malinak <cmalinak@CTC.CTC.EDU>
Subject: Re: H2 cylinders
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD4B32.D855EDC0"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------ =_NextPart_000_01BD4B32.D855EDC0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Another alternative is to eliminate the cylinders altogether, with a
hydrogen generator such as those sold by Supelco.
These run from $4000 to $8000, depending upon your needs, but the
safety benefits may make one worthwhile, especially compared with
construction costs of building outdoor storage facilities.
I used a "low-end" H2 generator from Supelco to run a GC and a GC/MS
at an environmental analysis lab I helped set up in Polson, MT a few
years back. It was quiet and trouble free, and produced plenty of
hydrogen for the two instruments. I found no difference in my
analytical results between bottled H2 and that from the generator.
============================================
Clay J. Malinak
cmalinak@ctc.edu
Spokane Community College (509) 533-7246
1810 N. Greene St. MS2070 (509) 533 7051
fax
Spokane, WA 99207-5399
USA
==================================
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:22:56 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: DAnder3920 <DAnder3920@AOL.COM>
Subject: Another Call for Help
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Dear LabSafe -
I am also interested in reducing the amount of email that I get. I do
appreciate the notification so if it is a topic I'm interested in I could get
the details. Please advise how this can be accomplished.
Darlene Susa-Anderson
Fisher Scientific
==================================
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:45:47 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Erik Talley <erik@CEHS.SIU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Another Call for Help
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
The easiest way to do this would be to set your mail to digest. This is
similar to the safety list digests if you're subscribed there and will send
you all of the messages as one message each day. To do this, send a message
to listserv@siu.edu with the following in the body of the message:
set labsafety-l digest
Erik
________________________________________
Erik Talley, Assistant Director
Center for Environmental Health & Safety
Southern Illinois University
erik@cehs.siu.edu
-----Original Message-----
From: DAnder3920 [mailto:DAnder3920@AOL.COM]
Sent: Monday, March 09, 1998 11:23 AM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Another Call for Help
Dear LabSafe -
I am also interested in reducing the amount of email that I get. I do
appreciate the notification so if it is a topic I'm interested in I could
get
the details. Please advise how this can be accomplished.
Darlene Susa-Anderson
Fisher Scientific
==================================
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:57:21 EST
Reply-To: RFasano@ato.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Richard Fasano <RFasano@ATO.COM>
Subject: Reply: Claudia Toback, OSHA Regs for Science Class Size
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Claudia,
Not knowing what state you are in, I don't know if you have a state program or if you are
under the Federal OSHA. Assuming your science labs would be covered under OSHA, I know of
no federal OSHA regulation that specifically addresses the size of a
class in the science laboratory. OSHA might give you some relief under the General Duty
Clause [Section 5(a)(1) of the OS&H Act requires that "Each employer shall
furnish to each of his employees employment and a place of employment which are free from
recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm
to his employees."], but again it would depend on who is the employee (you alone or
you and the students) and if your employer is exempt from Federal OSHA coverage.
Another source to look to is your local fire department/Fire Marshall. Class size might
reasonably be limited by means of egress, or zoning maximum occupancy requirements for the
room.
Regards,
Richard Fasano (rfasano@ato.com)
Supervisor, Safety, Health & Environmental Affairs
KoP Technical Center - Elf Atochem North America, Inc.
These opinions are my own based on my training and experience.
"It's a revolution damn it! We're going to have to offend somebody!" - John
Adams, while discussing the massive changes being hacked into the Declaration of
Independence in 1776.
- Rich F.
==================================
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:58:23 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Diana Harding <DHARDING@MAIL.NYSED.GOV>
Subject: Re: NACHO INTRO -Reply -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Are we looking for colleges or public school districts?
>>> Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM> 03/04/98 09:27pm >>>
Hi Diane,
Thanks for your interest in LSI. Here's the electronic version of our
Lab Safety Guidelines. Other information will be sent by regular mail
in 3-4 weeks.
Please contact us whenever you have lab safety questions or can share
a description of a lab accident.
LSI is a great source for all Laboratory and Occupational Safety Books
and Media. For example, the "Laboratory Safety Pocket Guide" edited by
Paul Mercier is the best new book (Genium, 211 pages, $14.00 list) is
$12.60
from LSI (Save 10%). Clair Wood's "Safety in School Science Labs" is
excellent ($19.95). LSI just published the first volume of "Learning By
Accident", 500 examples of lab accidents. See what happens when you
break the rules ($19.95)! And, LSI members save an additional 10%.
When can we set up a schedule to do 10-12 one-day seminars around
New York State? We're ready! We've go five scheduled for Maine in
'98.
Regards, ... Jim Kaufman
==================================
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:17:58 -0800
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Ben Owens <bowens@UNR.EDU>
Subject: laboratory SOPs
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
We are in the process of developing SOPs for the Chemistry Dept. here at
UNR. In order to facilitate this process, I am seeking actual SOPs
developed for use in academic chemistry research laboratories to use as
examples or models. In addition to example SOPs, any advice on
approaches that have been successful in development of laboratory SOPs
would also be appreciated. Specifically, how were hazards identified
and classified for development of SOPs - How specific are SOPs (specific
chemicals vs. classes of chemicals)? What level of detail in SOPs?
What level of knowledge/competence is assumed with new graduate
students? Thanks in advance for any help.
Ben Owens, CHO
Univ. of Nevada, Reno
Environmental Health and Safety Dept.
Reno, NV 89557
(702) 327-5196 tel.
(702) 784-4553 fax
==================================
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:55:50 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Benedict, Kathryn" <BENEDIK@WOLF.RESEARCH.AA.WL.COM>
Subject: Re: laboratory SOPs
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Ben,
If you do a www search for chemical hygiene plans, you will find a
wealth programs that include lab SOP's to look at.
Michigan State, Cornell and The University of Vermont all have
excellent CHP's on their websites.
Kathy Benedict
Parke-Davis
benedik@aa.wl.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Owens [SMTP:bowens@UNR.EDU]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 7:18 PM
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: laboratory SOPs
>
> We are in the process of developing SOPs for the Chemistry Dept. here
> at
> UNR. In order to facilitate this process, I am seeking actual SOPs
> developed for use in academic chemistry research laboratories to use
> as
> examples or models. In addition to example SOPs, any advice on
> approaches that have been successful in development of laboratory SOPs
> would also be appreciated. Specifically, how were hazards identified
> and classified for development of SOPs - How specific are SOPs
> (specific
> chemicals vs. classes of chemicals)? What level of detail in SOPs?
> What level of knowledge/competence is assumed with new graduate
> students? Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> Ben Owens, CHO
> Univ. of Nevada, Reno
> Environmental Health and Safety Dept.
> Reno, NV 89557
> (702) 327-5196 tel.
> (702) 784-4553 fax
==================================
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:57:40 EDT
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Jennifer Reader <JENNIFER@EHS.UOGUELPH.CA>
Organization: Environmental Health and Safety
Subject: Re: laboratory SOPs
We have a professor who has written a 19 page document entitled
"Laboratory Instructions for Working with Strains of
Mycobacterium Species in Risk-Level 2 Biohazard Laboratory Room
XXX"
Contents include:
Requirements for Risk Level 2 Lab; definition of Risk Level 2;
Worker responsibilities; Mycobacterium species used in the lab;
General lab practices - do's and don't's; specific procedures;
transportation of live cultures; disinfectants and decon
procedures; routine cleaning and disinfection of lab space and
equipment; spills; biocontainment cabinet; working in the
cabinet; use of the CO2 incubator; references; general
characteristics of Mycobacterium sp.; MSDS.
We have other profs who have written 3 or 4 page documents but
this is the most comprehensive one I've seen at this institution.
We do have SOP's for the Veterinary Hospital but they aren't
really "lab" SOP's.
Jennifer Reader, B.S., M.S.P.H.
Hazardous Materials Safety Officer
Environmental Health and Safety
University of Guelph
Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1 Canada
519-824-4120 X3190 Fax 519-824-0364
e-Mail jennifer@ehs.uoguelph.ca
==================================
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:28:56 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Walters.Douglas" <walters@NIEHS.NIH.GOV>
Subject: Re: laboratory SOPs
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Ben,
Two common SOP problems I encounter are:
1) SOP's are written to describe what or why something is done rather
than written to specifically describe, in detail, precisely how a task
or operation is to be performed.
2) SOP's are written with should type words, rather than shall, will,
must, needs to, etc. Should gives the reader a choice, an option, and
does not actually require the task or operation be done precisely as
written. Shall requires the task be done precisely as written. In a
few, rare, instances use of should can be appropriate. This can be an
important compliance and legal issue.
Douglas B. Walters, Ph.D., CSP, CCHO
Head, Laboratory Health and Safety
National Toxicology Program
National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences
PO Box 12233
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709
919. 541.3355 (voice)
919. 541.3687 (FAX)
walters@niehs.nih.gov
> We are in the process of developing SOPs for the Chemistry Dept. here
> at
> UNR. In order to facilitate this process, I am seeking actual SOPs
> developed for use in academic chemistry research laboratories to use
> as
> examples or models. In addition to example SOPs, any advice on
> approaches that have been successful in development of laboratory SOPs
> would also be appreciated. Specifically, how were hazards identified
> and classified for development of SOPs - How specific are SOPs
> (specific
> chemicals vs. classes of chemicals)? What level of detail in SOPs?
> What level of knowledge/competence is assumed with new graduate
> students? Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> Ben Owens, CHO
> Univ. of Nevada, Reno
> Environmental Health and Safety Dept.
> Reno, NV 89557
> (702) 327-5196 tel.
> (702) 784-4553 fax
>
==================================
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:04:38 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Heat sources used in distillations. -Reply -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Management of flammables in the micro lab has been made easier by setting up stations for
staining that are located on benches with sinks and no gas jets.
Any ethanol or IPA used for cleaning objectives and slides are put in 100ml wash bottles.
I usually fill them with about 25mls. The containers are set out in the staining area.
Students are encouraged to clean slides at the sinks. If they need to clean a microscope
objective, they must have burners off. Very often, the instructors and TA's do the
cleaning, students do not often recognize dirty objectives when they see them.
To address the justification of burners in micro, they are needed to sterilize loops and
flame test tubes. They are an integral part of aseptic technique. I am unaware of a
suitable substitute. What did you have in mind?
With the above precautions and setups, we have had no fires in micro in my 5.5 years here
at UNE. Yes, I am proud of this accomplishment. The med school labs have 50 to 60 students
per lab section in the micro lab, while the undergrad course is limited to 15 students per
section.
For what it's worth, Janeen.
==================================
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:21:01 -0500
Reply-To: hboyter@cstone.net
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Henry Boyter Jr." <hboyter@CSTONE.NET>
Subject: Re: laboratory SOPs
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I agree with your comments to a point. I have seen the opposite problem
also. "You must weigh the filter three times...". Is four an option?
"You must use a minimum of 5mL...". What if 5mL overloads the filter? I
think we agree, but the options should be placed in the SOP for when the
sample is not a standard sample and the musts should be a minimum or
maximum point not a limitation.
Dr. Henry Boyter, Jr. Ph.D. Chemist
The opinions of Dr. Boyter are provided for informational purposes only and
should not be used as advice. No warranty or expression of professionalism
is implied.
----------
From: Walters.Douglas <walters@NIEHS.NIH.GOV>
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: laboratory SOPs
Date: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 9:28 AM
Ben,
Two common SOP problems I encounter are:
1) SOP's are written to describe what or why something is done rather
than written to specifically describe, in detail, precisely how a task
or operation is to be performed.
2) SOP's are written with should type words, rather than shall, will,
must, needs to, etc. Should gives the reader a choice, an option, and
does not actually require the task or operation be done precisely as
written. Shall requires the task be done precisely as written. In a
few, rare, instances use of should can be appropriate. This can be an
important compliance and legal issue.
Douglas B. Walters, Ph.D., CSP, CCHO
Head, Laboratory Health and Safety
National Toxicology Program
National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences
PO Box 12233
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709
919. 541.3355 (voice)
919. 541.3687 (FAX)
walters@niehs.nih.gov
> We are in the process of developing SOPs for the Chemistry Dept. here
> at
> UNR. In order to facilitate this process, I am seeking actual SOPs
> developed for use in academic chemistry research laboratories to use
> as
> examples or models. In addition to example SOPs, any advice on
> approaches that have been successful in development of laboratory SOPs
> would also be appreciated. Specifically, how were hazards identified
> and classified for development of SOPs - How specific are SOPs
> (specific
> chemicals vs. classes of chemicals)? What level of detail in SOPs?
> What level of knowledge/competence is assumed with new graduate
> students? Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> Ben Owens, CHO
> Univ. of Nevada, Reno
> Environmental Health and Safety Dept.
> Reno, NV 89557
> (702) 327-5196 tel.
> (702) 784-4553 fax
>
==================================
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:03:27 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: DougCody <DougCody@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: laboratory SOPs
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Since I supervise in academic environment, I would be interested in any
development along these lines.
Douglas S. Cody, MA, CSP
Nassau Community College
Chemistry Department
1 Education Drive
Garden City, NY 11530
516-572-7986
codyd@sunynassau.edu
==================================
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:27:05 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: purflece <purflece@ALLTEL.NET>
Subject: Re: laboratory SOPs
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
If you are located anywhere near a pharmaceutical plant, you might want to
call the lab manager and see if they have SOPs alrady written for their
instrumentation. I came from the industry and we documented everything
under the sun.
Rich Boosey
----------
> From: Walters.Douglas <walters@NIEHS.NIH.GOV>
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: Re: laboratory SOPs
> Date: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 8:28 AM
>
> Ben,
> Two common SOP problems I encounter are:
> 1) SOP's are written to describe what or why something is done rather
> than written to specifically describe, in detail, precisely how a task
> or operation is to be performed.
> 2) SOP's are written with should type words, rather than shall, will,
> must, needs to, etc. Should gives the reader a choice, an option, and
> does not actually require the task or operation be done precisely as
> written. Shall requires the task be done precisely as written. In a
> few, rare, instances use of should can be appropriate. This can be an
> important compliance and legal issue.
>
> Douglas B. Walters, Ph.D., CSP, CCHO
> Head, Laboratory Health and Safety
> National Toxicology Program
> National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences
> PO Box 12233
> Research Triangle Park, NC 27709
> 919. 541.3355 (voice)
> 919. 541.3687 (FAX)
> walters@niehs.nih.gov
>
>
> > We are in the process of developing SOPs for the Chemistry Dept. here
> > at
> > UNR. In order to facilitate this process, I am seeking actual SOPs
> > developed for use in academic chemistry research laboratories to use
> > as
> > examples or models. In addition to example SOPs, any advice on
> > approaches that have been successful in development of laboratory SOPs
> > would also be appreciated. Specifically, how were hazards identified
> > and classified for development of SOPs - How specific are SOPs
> > (specific
> > chemicals vs. classes of chemicals)? What level of detail in SOPs?
> > What level of knowledge/competence is assumed with new graduate
> > students? Thanks in advance for any help.
> >
> > Ben Owens, CHO
> > Univ. of Nevada, Reno
> > Environmental Health and Safety Dept.
> > Reno, NV 89557
> > (702) 327-5196 tel.
> > (702) 784-4553 fax
> >
==================================
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:56:20 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Digest Format
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-09 10:53:33 EST, you write:
<< Is there a way to receive your announcements, but be removed from
the live mail list. I would be interested in occassionally scanning the
live mail if you archive it. >>
and, another LABSAFETY-L subscriber wrote:
<< I am also interested in reducing the amount of email that I get. I do
appreciate the notification so if it is a topic I'm interested in I could get
the details. Please advise how this can be accomplished. >>
JAK: You might consider receiving the list in DIGEST form. When
you do this you will get all the days messages in a single one. I use
this format for several lists to avaoid being overwhelmed by the volume
of messages.
To do this, send a message to LISTSERV@SIU.EDU
In the body of the message say: SET LABSAFETY-L DIG
See if this helps. .... jak
==================================
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:40:20 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Neal Langerman <chemsaf@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: CHO Training
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jim:
Send me info on upcoming CHO Training - I have a client I want to attend...
Thanks
Neal
*********************************************
NEAL LANGERMAN
ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY
8909 C Complex Drive
San Diego, CA 92123-1002
619-874-5577
619-874-8239 (FAX)
chemsaf@ix.netcom.com
NEW and REVISED!
Visit our Home Page:
http://www.chemical-safety.com
The Source for the prevention of injury, illness
and environmental insult!
*********************************************
==================================
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:15:07 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Liability in Science Teaching
Comments: To: chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-11 04:45:12 EST, Bill Lee wrote:
<< About ten years ago I shared the chemistry stockroom with another
teacher. He allowed his students access to the stockroom and
approximately two hundred grams of K metal was stolen. I have no idea
what eventually happened to the K, but I did worry alot. I am
department chairperson now and no students are allowed in the
stockroom. The stockroom is alarmed and the alarm is connected to the
school police department. Also, extremely dangerous chemicals like
metallic Na, K, and white P are kept in a large gun vault where we also
keep our electronic scales. >>
JAK: Over the same ten years, I have worked as an expert witness
in about three dozen cases. Several have involved students injured
because of improper storage. The injuries have ranged from burns,
blindness and death to the total destruction of a home.
All of this has lead me to conclude that the most important aspect
of chemical storage is security and access. Keep the door/cabinet
locked and allow entry only to authorized persons.
==================================
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 23:41:06 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: NACHO's Future
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Hello NACHO Members,
Welcome to the National Association of Chemical Hygiene
Officers. Whether you actually are a chemical hygiene officer,
wish to become one, or are simply interested in laboratory
safety/CHO/CHP issues, NACHO is your professional organization.
And, LABSAFETY-L is the place for you to engage others
with interest in these areas in discussion and conversation.
Today, NACHO exists only here on LABSAFETY-L. More than
300 people have joined. It is a virtual Association based on our
common interest. The first public meeting to discuss NACHO's
future is scheduled for 6-9pm on Wednesday evening, June 24th
in Raleigh-Duhram in conjunction with the LS7EM98 conference.
Everyone is welcome and, you do not need to register for the
conference to attend the NACHO meeting.
However, between now and then (103 days) we need to begin
discussing NACHO's future here in space and develop several
models for the Association's shape, form, and substance.
For example,...... NACHO could.......
1. Remain simply a listserv discussion group... period.
2. Develop into a virtual association in space with meetings,
poster sessions, bylaws, officers, guest speakers, seminars,
standards, publications, officers, dues, etc.
3. Become an association that holds public meetings doing
some or all of the above in the same way that ACS, AIHA,
NSTA, NAOSSM, NABT, NSC, etc conduct their affairs.
4. Or, one of many other good ideas that you might wish to
suggest.
Please comment and criticize 1, 2, and 3 above. What are
the advantages and disadvantages of each? Which is (are)
your preference(s). What other ideas (#4) would you like to
offer? ....jak
==================================
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 13:12:28 +0000
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Andrew Szilagyi <Andrew.Szilagyi@EM.DOE.GOV>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
A combination of (1) and (2) seems most appropriate - i.e., more than
a listserve but less than a full blown association. The virtual
association without the baggage (no officers, no dues, NO bureaucracy,
etc.) appears ideal.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: NACHO's Future
Author: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU at INTERNET
Date: 3/13/98 11:41 PM
Hello NACHO Members,
Welcome to the National Association of Chemical Hygiene
Officers. Whether you actually are a chemical hygiene officer,
wish to become one, or are simply interested in laboratory
safety/CHO/CHP issues, NACHO is your professional organization.
And, LABSAFETY-L is the place for you to engage others
with interest in these areas in discussion and conversation.
Today, NACHO exists only here on LABSAFETY-L. More than
300 people have joined. It is a virtual Association based on our
common interest. The first public meeting to discuss NACHO's
future is scheduled for 6-9pm on Wednesday evening, June 24th
in Raleigh-Duhram in conjunction with the LS7EM98 conference.
Everyone is welcome and, you do not need to register for the
conference to attend the NACHO meeting.
However, between now and then (103 days) we need to begin
discussing NACHO's future here in space and develop several
models for the Association's shape, form, and substance.
For example,...... NACHO could.......
1. Remain simply a listserv discussion group... period.
2. Develop into a virtual association in space with meetings,
poster sessions, bylaws, officers, guest speakers, seminars,
standards, publications, officers, dues, etc.
3. Become an association that holds public meetings doing
some or all of the above in the same way that ACS, AIHA,
NSTA, NAOSSM, NABT, NSC, etc conduct their affairs.
4. Or, one of many other good ideas that you might wish to
suggest.
Please comment and criticize 1, 2, and 3 above. What are
the advantages and disadvantages of each? Which is (are)
your preference(s). What other ideas (#4) would you like to
offer? ....jak
==================================
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 09:16:29 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Chemical Hygiene Plan
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Subject: Chemical Hygiene Plan
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:04:05 CST6CDT
To anyone who would like to respond:
This has probably been requested before, but here goes. I would like
to update our Chemical Hygiene Plan for the Chemistry Dept. (college
size, 2500). Would anyone know of a guideline for academic labs, or
willing to share their plan? It would be appreciated.
George Lorenzo
Wheaton College
501 College Ave.
Wheaton, IL 60187
==================================
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 08:37:04 +0000
Reply-To: cdawley@transport.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Cheryl Dawley <cdawley@TRANSPORT.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
NACHO is an association I would like to be actively involved with! Options 1
and 2 are therefore most attractive to me. Finances being what they are,
traveling to national (or even regional) meetings is not something I can afford
on a regular basis (This has kept me from active participation is the ACS.)
However, holding meetings at the LS & EM is great for me since my employer has
authorized sending me again this year! Perhaps option 2 might be a good idea.
The association is bound to grow and organizing ourselves would easier now than
later.
Just my humble opinion.
Cheryl Dawley, CHO, Chemist
AntiVirals, Inc. (AVI BioPharma)
Corvallis, OR 97333
(541)753-3635
cdawley@transport.com
Labsafe wrote:
> 1. Remain simply a listserv discussion group... period.
>
> 2. Develop into a virtual association in space with meetings,
> poster sessions, bylaws, officers, guest speakers, seminars,
> standards, publications, officers, dues, etc.
>
> 3. Become an association that holds public meetings doing
> some or all of the above in the same way that ACS, AIHA,
> NSTA, NAOSSM, NABT, NSC, etc conduct their affairs.
>
> 4. Or, one of many other good ideas that you might wish to
> suggest.
>
> Please comment and criticize 1, 2, and 3 above. What are
> the advantages and disadvantages of each? Which is (are)
> your preference(s). What other ideas (#4) would you like to
> offer? ....jak
>
>
==================================
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 12:20:24 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-14 08:25:50 EST, Andrew Szilagyi wrote:
<< A combination of (1) and (2) seems most appropriate - i.e., more
than a listserve but less than a full blown association. The virtual
association without the baggage (no officers, no dues, NO
bureaucracy, etc.) appears ideal. >>
JAK: The four options listed were:
1. Remain simply a listserv discussion group... period.
2. Develop
into a virtual association in space with meetings,
poster sessions, bylaws, officers, guest speakers, seminars,
standards, publications, officers, dues, etc.
3. Become an association that holds public meetings doing
some or all of the above in the same way that ACS, AIHA,
NSTA, NAOSSM, NABT, NSC, etc conduct their affairs.
4. Or, one of many other good ideas that you might wish to
suggest.
If NACHO were to adopt the suggestion at the top, I'm wondering
how the author and others would envision accomplishing some or
all of the items listed in #2 above. ....jak
==================================
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 12:25:19 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Dr. Linda A. Swihart" <swihart@PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chemical Hygiene Plan
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Our Chemical Hygiene Plan "template" (widely used by academic department
research labs as their own) is on the web.
Start at the Beginning of Purdue's REM (Radiological and Environmental
Management) web site at
http://www.purdue.edu/REM/index.html
or go directly to the first section of the CHP at
http://www.purdue.edu/REM/IH/chp.htm
At 09:16 AM 3/14/98 EST, you wrote:
>Subject: Chemical Hygiene Plan
>Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:04:05 CST6CDT
>
>To anyone who would like to respond:
>
>This has probably been requested before, but here goes. I would like
>to update our Chemical Hygiene Plan for the Chemistry Dept. (college
>size, 2500). Would anyone know of a guideline for academic labs, or
>willing to share their plan? It would be appreciated.
>
>George Lorenzo
>Wheaton College
>501 College Ave.
>Wheaton, IL 60187
>
==================================
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 13:10:53 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: MR HOWARD W SPENCER <UDSM01A@PRODIGY.COM>
Subject: Chemical Hygiene Plan
There are several quality CHP's on the net. Most are from colleges.
go to a search engine and look for "Chemicla Hygiene". The one from
a California University of enginnering may suit yoy well.
Howard Spencer
Safety Consultant
Triquerta Safety Services
Voice 609-645-3535
present E-Mail Spencerh@absecon.DCS-Exxis.com.
==================================
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:03:02 +0000
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Andrew Szilagyi <Andrew.Szilagyi@EM.DOE.GOV>
Subject: Re[2]: NACHO's Future
I guess I was hoping that the good elements listed in (2) below, e.g.,
standards, publications, meetings (maybe not "in person" but via
alternative methods - videolink, listserve "chat rooms", etc), could
be accomplished without what I consider "baggage", e.g., bylaws,
officers, membership, dues, etc.
In most other typical "associations" I have been involved in in the
past, much of the time and effort appears to be spend on the "baggage"
rather than on meaningful output.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
Author: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU at INTERNET
Date: 3/14/98 12:20 PM
In a message dated 98-03-14 08:25:50 EST, Andrew Szilagyi wrote:
<< A combination of (1) and (2) seems most appropriate - i.e., more
than a listserve but less than a full blown association. The virtual
association without the baggage (no officers, no dues, NO
bureaucracy, etc.) appears ideal. >>
JAK: The four options listed were:
1. Remain simply a listserv discussion group... period.
2. Develop into a virtual association in space with meetings,
poster sessions, bylaws, officers, guest speakers, seminars,
standards, publications, officers, dues, etc.
3. Become an association that holds public meetings doing
some or all of the above in the same way that ACS, AIHA,
NSTA, NAOSSM, NABT, NSC, etc conduct their affairs.
4. Or, one of many other good ideas that you might wish to
suggest.
If NACHO were to adopt the suggestion at the top, I'm wondering
how the author and others would envision accomplishing some or
all of the items listed in #2 above. ....jak
==================================
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:41:01 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Anne Skinner <Anne.R.Skinner@WILLIAMS.EDU>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
In-Reply-To: <f4aeb7ed.350a0a64@aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Most of us are extremely busy just trying to keep up with our daily work --
I'm sure I am not the only one whose CHO responsibilities are only part of
the job description whether the rest is additional safety areas, technical
support, or teaching. Therefore I vote for 1 for the present.
Anne Skinner
/O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\
Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si
\O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/
Dr. Anne Skinner
Chemistry Department, Williams College
47 Lab Campus Drive
Williamstown, MA 01267
anne.r.skinner@williams.edu
Phone: (413) 597-2323
Fax No: (413) 597-4116
/O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\
Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si
\O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/
==================================
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 06:52:00 -0700
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Mako <rrmako@MAIL.HAC.COM>
Subject: LS7EM98 conference
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
Could you tell me more about this conference? I've never attended. I
also need to know about ABIH certification maintenance points.
Thanks,
Bob Mako, CIH, CSP
Raytheon Systems Co
El Segundo, CA
rrmako@mail.hac.com
==================================
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 07:30:46 -0800
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Neal Langerman <chemsaf@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: LS7EM98 conference
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:52 AM 3/16/98 -0700, you wrote:
> Could you tell me more about this conference? I've never attended. I
> also need to know about ABIH certification maintenance points.
>
> Thanks,
> Bob Mako, CIH, CSP
> Raytheon Systems Co
> El Segundo, CA
> rrmako@mail.hac.com
>
>
Bob:
I attended some of it in SD last year - very focussed on lab safety issues.
Contact anyone (Frank, Dawnn ...) at PRIZMnet@aol.com or 301 840 9316 for
more info. It is worth attending.
Neal
*************************************************************
NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com
ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY
8909 Complex Drive
San Diego CA 92123-1418
619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX)
619 990 4908 (cellular)
visit our homepage: http:\\www.chemical-safety.com
*************************************************************
==================================
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:11:18 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Walters.Douglas" <walters@NIEHS.NIH.GOV>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
I agree with Anne.
In addition, with all the other professional memberships and
certifications-enough's enough.
Doug Walters
Douglas B. Walters, Ph.D., CSP, CCHO
Head, Laboratory Health and Safety
National Toxicology Program
National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences
PO Box 12233
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709
> Most of us are extremely busy just trying to keep up with our daily
> work --
> I'm sure I am not the only one whose CHO responsibilities are only
> part of
> the job description whether the rest is additional safety areas,
> technical
> support, or teaching. Therefore I vote for 1 for the present.
>
> Anne Skinner
>
>
==================================
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:13:51 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Ronald I. Slade" <rslade@UISM.BU.EDU>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I can see NACHO starting as a listserv discussion group and possibly
evolving into more as interest develops and members' time allows.
Ron Slade
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: NACHO's Future
Author: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU> at smtpout
Date: 3/13/98 11:41 PM
Hello NACHO Members,
Welcome to the National Association of Chemical Hygiene
Officers. Whether you actually are a chemical hygiene officer,
wish to become one, or are simply interested in laboratory
safety/CHO/CHP issues, NACHO is your professional organization.
And, LABSAFETY-L is the place for you to engage others
with interest in these areas in discussion and conversation.
Today, NACHO exists only here on LABSAFETY-L. More than
300 people have joined. It is a virtual Association based on our
common interest. The first public meeting to discuss NACHO's
future is scheduled for 6-9pm on Wednesday evening, June 24th
in Raleigh-Duhram in conjunction with the LS7EM98 conference.
Everyone is welcome and, you do not need to register for the
conference to attend the NACHO meeting.
However, between now and then (103 days) we need to begin
discussing NACHO's future here in space and develop several
models for the Association's shape, form, and substance.
For example,...... NACHO could.......
1. Remain simply a listserv discussion group... period.
2. Develop into a virtual association in space with meetings,
poster sessions, bylaws, officers, guest speakers, seminars,
standards, publications, officers, dues, etc.
3. Become an association that holds public meetings doing
some or all of the above in the same way that ACS, AIHA,
NSTA, NAOSSM, NABT, NSC, etc conduct their affairs.
4. Or, one of many other good ideas that you might wish to
suggest.
Please comment and criticize 1, 2, and 3 above. What are
the advantages and disadvantages of each? Which is (are)
your preference(s). What other ideas (#4) would you like to
offer? ....jak
==================================
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:45:03 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: DougCody <DougCody@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In regard to the future of NACHO, I am in agreement with Anne Skinner as well.
Just too much to be involved with already.
Douglas S. Cody, MA, CSP
Nassau Community College
Chemistry Department
1 Education Drive
Garden City, NY 11530
==================================
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:47:05 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: NACHO
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I'd like to see it be informal, without a lot of rules and stuff. WE
all have a lot to do. But I'd like to see a meeting now and then in
conjunction with another meeting, like ACS. How about a meeting in
Dallas? maybe an hour or so to just get aquainted. Lunch?
I'm a working chemist, not a safety professional, so I tend to go to the
chemical meetings like ACS and AOCS.
Bob
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:33:11 PST8PDT
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Debbie Decker <deckerd@FACMGMTSERVER.FM.CSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
In-Reply-To: <53cb6bdd.350d6521@aol.com>
I'm enjoying the format as it is. It's refreshing to belong to such
a low-pressure society <g>.
The upcoming LS&EM get-together and similar events, in conjunction
with ACS or similar meetings, would be nice as the organization
evolves.
Cheers,
Deb.
Debbie Decker, Chemical Hygiene Officer
Environmental Health & Safety
CSU, Sacramento
6000 J St.
Sacramento, CA USA 95819.6002
Voice: 916.278.5165 FAX: 916.278.5960
ddecker@csus.edu
==================================
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:46:35 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: LS7EM98 conference
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-16 10:04:14 EST, you write:
<< Could you tell me more about this conference? I've never attended. I
also need to know about ABIH certification maintenance points. >>
JAK: For more information about LS&EM'98,
contact PRIZIMNET@AOL.COM
==================================
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:46:32 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-16 06:52:20 EST, you write:
<< I guess I was hoping that the good elements listed in (2) below, e.g.,
standards, publications, meetings (maybe not "in person" but via
alternative methods - videolink, listserve "chat rooms", etc), could
be accomplished without what I consider "baggage", e.g., bylaws,
officers, membership, dues, etc.
In most other typical "associations" I have been involved in in the
past, much of the time and effort appears to be spend on the "baggage"
rather than on meaningful output. >>
JAK: I know what you mean. I've spend the last 30 years seeing the
best and the worst of it.
I'm wondering how we can create enough structure to have an
association that can function (without someone serving the role
of parent who does everything) and the resources to accomplish
it's goals. Is there no cost video link available? What is a fair
process for decision making? Should there be any "rules"?
==================================
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:08:01 +0000
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Andrew Szilagyi <Andrew.Szilagyi@EM.DOE.GOV>
Subject: Re[2]: NACHO's Future
Ah, if we only had the mystery of life - Yes JAK, the virtual organization does
need SOME structure, and some funds, etc. The key I guess is to ensure
(somehow) that the administrative elements and the bureaucracy DO NOT overtake
the technical reason for existence. Perhaps because no model exists (that I
know of) we need to look at all the things that we do not like about other
"organizations" and stubbornly refuse to incorporate them into this one. At the
same time we need to answer the type of questions that you posed. Not a trivial
undertaking but worth the effort I think.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
Author: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU at INTERNET
Date: 3/16/98 7:46 PM
In a message dated 98-03-16 06:52:20 EST, you write:
<< I guess I was hoping that the good elements listed in (2) below, e.g.,
standards, publications, meetings (maybe not "in person" but via
alternative methods - videolink, listserve "chat rooms", etc), could
be accomplished without what I consider "baggage", e.g., bylaws,
officers, membership, dues, etc.
In most other typical "associations" I have been involved in in the
past, much of the time and effort appears to be spend on the "baggage"
rather than on meaningful output. >>
JAK: I know what you mean. I've spend the last 30 years seeing the
best and the worst of it.
I'm wondering how we can create enough structure to have an
association that can function (without someone serving the role
of parent who does everything) and the resources to accomplish
it's goals. Is there no cost video link available? What is a fair
process for decision making? Should there be any "rules"?
==================================
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:28:00 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Robert Alaimo <alaimo.rj@PG.COM>
Subject: Chemical Health & Safety Magazine
NACHO Members & Others:
I would like to recommend the Chemical Health & Safety Division (ACS)
publication Chemical Health & Safety magazine to all NACHO members and other
readers of this list. If you are not already a subscriber I would encourage
you to contact the American Chemical Society, Publications Marketing
Department, 1155 Sixteenth St. N.W. Washington, DC 20078-5768. Or you can call
1-800-227-5558 and ask for the Publications Marketing Department.
The magazine's focus is the Chemical Hygiene Officer and provides a wealth of
information to help you do your job better. It also provides the reader with
the opportunity to contact thought leaders in the field of Chemical Health and
Safety.
ACS members can subscribe for $31.00 per year with a money back guarantee. Non
ACS members can join the Division of Chemical Health & Safety as an affiliate
and receive the Division membership and the magazine for $43.50. Divison
members receive the magazine automatically as a part of their Division dues for
$29.
Check out some of the hot articles on the Magazines Web site at :
http://pubs.acs.org/hotartcl/chas/chas.html
Scan these and you will see that this magazine should be on every Chemical
Hygiene Officers desk.
Robert J. Alaimo, Ph.D. CCHO
==================================
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:16:48 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Debi Sharpe <sharpdc@MAIL.AUBURN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chemical Health & Safety Magazine
In-Reply-To: <M16524185.004.ywaq4.1.980317143026Z.CC-MAIL*/OU=UCCMC00/O=1.UCN.GO.35/PRM
D=PROCTERGAMBLE/ADMD=MCI/C=US/@MHS>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I agree it is a great magazine!
Debra Sharpe
University Safety Officer
Auburn University
fax (334) 844-4640
Ph (334) 844-4870
==================================
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:04:55 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Chemical Health & Safety Magazine
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-17 09:34:07 EST, you write:
<< I would like to recommend the Chemical Health & Safety
Division (ACS) publication Chemical Health & Safety magazine
to all NACHO members and other readers of this list. >>
JAK: I agree with Bob Alaimo. I had the priviledge of writing a lab
safety column for the magazine for the first year and think they do
an excellent job. Many of the feature articles (Like Eileen Siegal's
on Contact Lenses, May/June '97) are simply invaluable.
==================================
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:04:51 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-17 06:52:43 EST, you write:
<< Ah, if we only had the mystery of life - Yes JAK, the virtual organization
does
need SOME structure, and some funds, etc. The key I guess is to ensure
(somehow) that the administrative elements and the bureaucracy DO NOT
overtake
the technical reason for existence. Perhaps because no model exists (that I
know of) we need to look at all the things that we do not like about other
"organizations" and stubbornly refuse to incorporate them into this one. At
the
same time we need to answer the type of questions that you posed. Not a
trivial
undertaking but worth the effort I think. >>
JAK: We sure agree that we don't want "the administrative elements
and the bureaucracy DO NOT overtake the technical reason for
existence" and that it's "Not a trivial undertaking but worth the effort
I think."
Having agreed, now let's move on to the task of trying to figure out
how to develop appropriate administrative elements for a virtual
association.
Any suggestion? Anyone?
==================================
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 05:51:18 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Comments: RFC822 error: <W> TO field duplicated. Last occurrence was
retained.
From: Claudia Toback <cmtoback@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: FUNDING RESOURCES
Comments: To: LabSafe@aol.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Dear Jim,
If you and the NCHO's need more resources, why not look to governmental and
private funding institutions. If you direct your needs to the industrial
and educational communities for professional development, I don't see why
LSI or NCHO would not qualify for funding.
As I have mentioned in earlier communications, safety takes a second class
position in science teaching throughout the country. There is definitely a
need to educate science educators at all levels in proper laboratory safety.
Perhaps contacting NSTA, NABT, AAPT and, of course, ACS to assist in writing
a grant proposal would be beneficial. Also, most of these associations have
meetings throughout the year. Why not have a miniconference at one or each
of them to promote lab safety. For science teachers, the AFT or NEA might
be interested in helping to provide the know-how and expertise in underaking
this task.
Claudia Toback
Science Council of NYC
cmtoback@ix.netcom.com
==================================
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:51:49 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Erik Talley <erik@CEHS.SIU.EDU>
Subject: Chemical Health & Safety Magazine
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Chemical Health & Safety is the only magazine I make time to read cover to
cover. It's the most practical one out there for lab safety professionals
dealing in the chemical realm. If you're interested in more information
about the Division of Chemical Health and Safety, check out the web-site at
http://dchas.cehs.siu.edu
Erik
________________________________________
Erik Talley, Assistant Director
Center for Environmental Health & Safety
Southern Illinois University
erik@cehs.siu.edu
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor [mailto:LISTSERV@SIU.EDU]
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 12:00 AM
To: Recipients of LABSAFETY-L digests
Subject: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 16 Mar 1998 to 17 Mar 1998
There are 5 messages totalling 195 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Re[2]: NACHO's Future
2. Chemical Health & Safety Magazine (3)
3. NACHO's Future
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:08:01 +0000
From: Andrew Szilagyi <Andrew.Szilagyi@EM.DOE.GOV>
Subject: Re[2]: NACHO's Future
Ah, if we only had the mystery of life - Yes JAK, the virtual organization
does
need SOME structure, and some funds, etc. The key I guess is to ensure
(somehow) that the administrative elements and the bureaucracy DO NOT
overtake
the technical reason for existence. Perhaps because no model exists (that I
know of) we need to look at all the things that we do not like about other
"organizations" and stubbornly refuse to incorporate them into this one. At
the
same time we need to answer the type of questions that you posed. Not a
trivial
undertaking but worth the effort I think.
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
Author: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU at INTERNET
Date: 3/16/98 7:46 PM
In a message dated 98-03-16 06:52:20 EST, you write:
<< I guess I was hoping that the good elements listed in (2) below, e.g.,
standards, publications, meetings (maybe not "in person" but via
alternative methods - videolink, listserve "chat rooms", etc), could
be accomplished without what I consider "baggage", e.g., bylaws,
officers, membership, dues, etc.
In most other typical "associations" I have been involved in in the
past, much of the time and effort appears to be spend on the "baggage"
rather than on meaningful output. >>
JAK: I know what you mean. I've spend the last 30 years seeing the
best and the worst of it.
I'm wondering how we can create enough structure to have an
association that can function (without someone serving the role
of parent who does everything) and the resources to accomplish
it's goals. Is there no cost video link available? What is a fair
process for decision making? Should there be any "rules"?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:28:00 -0500
From: Robert Alaimo <alaimo.rj@PG.COM>
Subject: Chemical Health & Safety Magazine
NACHO Members & Others:
I would like to recommend the Chemical Health & Safety Division (ACS)
publication Chemical Health & Safety magazine to all NACHO members and other
readers of this list. If you are not already a subscriber I would encourage
you to contact the American Chemical Society, Publications Marketing
Department, 1155 Sixteenth St. N.W. Washington, DC 20078-5768. Or you can
call
1-800-227-5558 and ask for the Publications Marketing Department.
The magazine's focus is the Chemical Hygiene Officer and provides a wealth
of
information to help you do your job better. It also provides the reader with
the opportunity to contact thought leaders in the field of Chemical Health
and
Safety.
ACS members can subscribe for $31.00 per year with a money back guarantee.
Non
ACS members can join the Division of Chemical Health & Safety as an
affiliate
and receive the Division membership and the magazine for $43.50. Divison
members receive the magazine automatically as a part of their Division dues
for
$29.
Check out some of the hot articles on the Magazines Web site at :
http://pubs.acs.org/hotartcl/chas/chas.html
Scan these and you will see that this magazine should be on every Chemical
Hygiene Officers desk.
Robert J. Alaimo, Ph.D. CCHO
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:16:48 -0600
From: Debi Sharpe <sharpdc@MAIL.AUBURN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chemical Health & Safety Magazine
I agree it is a great magazine!
Debra Sharpe
University Safety Officer
Auburn University
fax (334) 844-4640
Ph (334) 844-4870
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:04:55 EST
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Chemical Health & Safety Magazine
In a message dated 98-03-17 09:34:07 EST, you write:
<< I would like to recommend the Chemical Health & Safety
Division (ACS) publication Chemical Health & Safety magazine
to all NACHO members and other readers of this list. >>
JAK: I agree with Bob Alaimo. I had the priviledge of writing a lab
safety column for the magazine for the first year and think they do
an excellent job. Many of the feature articles (Like Eileen Siegal's
on Contact Lenses, May/June '97) are simply invaluable.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:04:51 EST
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
In a message dated 98-03-17 06:52:43 EST, you write:
<< Ah, if we only had the mystery of life - Yes JAK, the virtual
organization
does
need SOME structure, and some funds, etc. The key I guess is to ensure
(somehow) that the administrative elements and the bureaucracy DO NOT
overtake
the technical reason for existence. Perhaps because no model exists (that
I
know of) we need to look at all the things that we do not like about other
"organizations" and stubbornly refuse to incorporate them into this one.
At
the
same time we need to answer the type of questions that you posed. Not a
trivial
undertaking but worth the effort I think. >>
JAK: We sure agree that we don't want "the administrative elements
and the bureaucracy DO NOT overtake the technical reason for
existence" and that it's "Not a trivial undertaking but worth the effort
I think."
Having agreed, now let's move on to the task of trying to figure out
how to develop appropriate administrative elements for a virtual
association.
Any suggestion? Anyone?
==================================
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:31:04 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: NACHO's Future -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hello fellow NACHO's.
I have been reading the responses to Jim's question on NACHO's future. I am hearing that
many feel they are too busy with work and other organizations to get involved with forming
NACHO into a more traditional model of organizations. I can fully understand this feeling.
Many of us wear many hats for our institutions.
(For example,...... NACHO could.......
1. Remain simply a list serve discussion group... period.)
One is a possibility for the short term. It should always remain part of what ever form
NACHO may become. It is very valuable to those of us who have very busy jobs. I feel we
are selling NACHO short to restrict it to a list server. It is a wonderful tool for
discussing issues and spreading info in an informal setting. It is a great tool for those
who are too busy to move beyond this mode.
(2. Develop into a virtual association in space with meetings,
poster sessions, bylaws, officers, guest speakers, seminars,
standards, publications, officers, dues, etc.)
Two sounds interesting but are there any models of this in existence now? I like the
options of having seminars and speakers, perhaps piggy backed to another national meeting
to help with costs and make the most of our valuable time, etc. Beyond this, I feel having
an organization for CHO's, that set standards, and make recommendations is an exciting
opportunity for use to be proactive in our jobs rather than always being reactive. Even if
our first publication stared out as a news letter that went out on a bimonthly schedule,
it would lend credibility to our group.
(3. Become an association that holds public meetings doing
some or all of the above in the same way that ACS, AIHA,
NSTA, NAOSSM, NABT, NSC, etc conduct their affairs.)
I guess a lot of what I had to say above applies here.
(4. Or, one of many other good ideas that you might wish to
suggest.)
I'm not sure I have any original ideas on how to organize us. I do feel that some
structure will be needed for NACHO to become recognized in the safety arena and viewed as
a worth while entity by those less versed in safety and safety issues in academic lab
settings.
I find that as a CHO in a small university, my credibility is often questioned.
Unfortunately some faculty are PHD snobs. My nearly 10 years of lab experience coupled
with a BA in Biology with a minor in Chemistry does not seem to stack up to a phd. I am
always looking for ways to increase my professional standing to help over come this
problem. I see NACHO as an opportunity to help. Membership in professional, nationally
recognized organizations does help. I find this especially true if the organization has a
publication for peer review.
I would like to see NACHO become more than just a list serve. I would like to volunteer my
time to help.
My humble opinion,
Janeen Lapierre, CHO
University of New England
College of Osteopathic Medicine
==================================
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:19:19 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future -Reply
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Greetings
I'd like to see something more than a list serve organization. I think
meetings and discussions would be very valuble. I particulary like to
compare notes with other CHOs, especially those who are, like me,
working chemists and not full-time, and industrial and not acedemic.
Although the input from acedemia is always interesting too!
I already email with several CHOs. Anyone else who would like to join
in, drop me an email.
If we have a meeting, would we serve nachos for a snack?
Bob
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:18:43 PST8PDT
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Debbie Decker <deckerd@FACMGMTSERVER.FM.CSUS.EDU>
Subject: (Fwd) job posting
Hello all:
Please don't contact me about this one - I don't know anymore than
what's written.
Good luck to those who might apply.
Debbie
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
To: ddecker@csus.edu
From: Craig Baker <bakerc@wserver.crc.losrios.cc.ca.us>
Hi Debbie .. Hope this finds you well?!
As you know I'm retiring and CRC is advertising for a Full time EnvTech teacher
Anyone that is interested should contact:
Los Rios Recruitment 916-568-3112
Jobline 916-568-3011
WebSite: www.do.losrios.cc.ca.us
C. Baker
------------------------------
Debbie Decker, Chemical Hygiene Officer
Environmental Health & Safety
CSU, Sacramento
6000 J St.
Sacramento, CA USA 95819.6002
Voice: 916.278.5165 FAX: 916.278.5960
ddecker@csus.edu
==================================
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:44:05 +0300
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: HALEEM MAHMOUD SAID <mshaleem@DPC.KFUPM.EDU.SA>
Subject: Re: Chemical Health & Safety Magazine
In-Reply-To: <l03020902b134a6a73d97@[131.204.47.87]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Debi Sharpe wrote:
> I agree it is a great magazine!
>
> Debra Sharpe
> University Safety Officer
> Auburn University
> fax (334) 844-4640
> Ph (334) 844-4870
>
Could you please provide some information in how to subscribe to the
magazine?
Thanks.
==================================
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:10:09 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Erik Talley <erik@CEHS.SIU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chemical Health & Safety Magazine
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
You can go to the following URL:
http://dchas.cehs.siu.edu/Magazine/index.htm
or call subscriber services at: 800-333-9511 (614-447-3776 outside the U.S.)
or e-mail at service@acs.org
________________________________________
Erik Talley, Assistant Director
Center for Environmental Health & Safety
Southern Illinois University
erik@cehs.siu.edu
-----Original Message-----
From: HALEEM MAHMOUD SAID [mailto:mshaleem@DPC.KFUPM.EDU.SA]
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 1998 1:44 AM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: Chemical Health & Safety Magazine
On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Debi Sharpe wrote:
> I agree it is a great magazine!
>
> Debra Sharpe
> University Safety Officer
> Auburn University
> fax (334) 844-4640
> Ph (334) 844-4870
>
Could you please provide some information in how to subscribe to the
magazine?
Thanks.
==================================
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:48:00 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Robert Alaimo <alaimo.rj@PG.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Chemical Health & Safety Magazine
Message authorized by:
: /S=mshaleem@dpc.kfupm.edu.sa/OU=SMTP/O=1.UCN.GO.31/P=PROCTERGAMBLE/A=MCI/C
The information regarding subscribing to Chemical Health & Safety Magazine is
included in my earlier message.
Bob Alaimo
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Chemical Health & Safety Magazine
Author: (INTERNET)labsafety-l@siu.edu at external
Date: 3/19/98 2:44 AM
On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Debi Sharpe wrote:
> I agree it is a great magazine!
>
> Debra Sharpe
> University Safety Officer
> Auburn University
> fax (334) 844-4640
> Ph (334) 844-4870
>
Could you please provide some information in how to subscribe to the
magazine?
Thanks.
==================================
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:59:06 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: chp
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Chemsw has a blank CHP in their catalog. Don't know anything about it,
except it's there.
They also have a neat chemical inventory system (CIS) that we use.
web site: http://www.CHEMSW.COM/
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:51:30 -0800
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Teresa Robertson <Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Organization: CSU Bakersfield
Subject: Re: chp
Comments: To: rburns@bigfoot.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
rburns@bigfoot.com,.internet writes:
>Chemsw has a blank CHP in their catalog. Don't know anything about it,
>except it's there.
>They also have a neat chemical inventory system (CIS) that we use.
>web site: http://www.CHEMSW.COM/
>--
>Robert L. Burns
>Group Leader, R&D
>Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
>201 Struble Road
>State College, PA 16801
>phone 814-231-9214
>fax 814-238-1567
>email rburns@bigfoot.com
Also, Flinn Scientific Catalog (1-800-452-1261) has appendices for
Right-to-Know laws, chemical inventory and storage, chemical disposal
procedures, and lots more.
Does anyone know where on the net I can find databases for oral-rat LD
50's, boiling points, and/or flash points?
Teresa R. Robertson, CCHO
California State University, Bakersfield
>X-SMTP-From: owner-labsafety-l@SIU.EDU
>X-SMTP-To: Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU
>Received: from saluki-mail.siu.edu (saluki-mail.siu.edu
>[131.230.252.17]) by bak_compserv6.csubak.edu with SMTP id MSGTTTQE;
>Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:12:01 GMT
>Received: from saluki-mail.siu.edu (saluki-mail.siu.edu
>[131.230.252.17]) by saluki-mail.siu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with
>ESMTP id PAA54094; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:57:09 -0600 (CST)
>Received: from SIU.EDU by SIU.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8c) with
>spool id 938890 for LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:57:08 -0600
>Received: from csrlink.net (sallybrown.csrlink.net [206.228.89.2]) by
>saluki-mail.siu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05646 for
><LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:57:04 -0600 (CST)
>Received: from bigfoot.com (station25.ruetgers.csrlink.net
>[207.44.5.121]) by csrlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04657 for
><LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:59:01 -0500 (EST)
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Message-ID: <3511952A.9BFB437@bigfoot.com>
>Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:59:06 -0500
>Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
>Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
>From: Bob Burns <rburns@bigfoot.com>
>Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
>Subject: chp
>To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
==================================
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:56:13 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Camara <rcamara@SNET.NET>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future -Reply
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi everyone;
I think I like the idea of a virtual association. Virtual meetings
could be conducted on IRC, saving precious time and money. Discussions
could be held with various experts as guest speakers. A newsletter
could be circulated via email.
As previously suggested, having piggybacked meetings at the national
meetings of other organizations like ACS could also help with financial
and time constraints while giving NACHO members an opportunity to meet
face to face.
As a virtual association, NACHO could evolve into an excellent means of
information transfer between persons interested in lab safety topics.
It could also result in new contacts and resources for all involved.
Bob Camara
Research Chemist / Environmental and Safety Manger
Construction Products Research, Inc.
Fairfield, CT
==================================
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:25:07 -0800
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Teresa Robertson <Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Organization: CSU Bakersfield
Subject: Tollens Test Disposal
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
If you don't work with college students, you may not understand why I
am asking, but does anyone have suggestions / procedures, etc. for the
handling by students of the Tollens test for aldehydes and the waste it
creates; the solutions of which have to be neutralized with, and the
glassware rinsed with dilute nitric acid as the non-acidified solutions
can become explosive upon standing.
TRR
==================================
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:52:30 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Hi NACHO members,
When I was reading Janeen LaPierre's comments it occurred to
me that one of the things we could consider doing is to set up
a NACHO web site where we could post information of value
to CHO's and folks interested in lab safety.
LSI is slowly (and awkwardly... no laughing please) building
a web site at labsafety.org. We would be happy to have a
place there for NACHO.
What do you think? ... jak
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 07:53:48 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sounds good to me. Would that be any different from the discussion list we have
now?
Bob
Labsafe wrote:
> Hi NACHO members,
>
> When I was reading Janeen LaPierre's comments it occurred to
> me that one of the things we could consider doing is to set up
> a NACHO web site where we could post information of value
> to CHO's and folks interested in lab safety.
>
> LSI is slowly (and awkwardly... no laughing please) building
> a web site at labsafety.org. We would be happy to have a
> place there for NACHO.
>
> What do you think? ... jak
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
> **********************************************************************
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:21:33 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Benedict, Kathryn" <BENEDIK@WOLF.RESEARCH.AA.WL.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Jim,
I think adding a NACHO link on the LSI website is a good idea.
I can forsee looking up things like our list of the most valuable
reference books for CHO's, safety stories, etc there for starters...
What can any of us NACHO folks do to assist you?
Kathy Benedict
benedik@aa.wl.com
-Davis-----Original Message-----
> From: Labsafe [SMTP:Labsafe@AOL.COM]
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 1998 11:53 PM
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
>
> Hi NACHO members,
>
> When I was reading Janeen LaPierre's comments it occurred to
> me that one of the things we could consider doing is to set up
> a NACHO web site where we could post information of value
> to CHO's and folks interested in lab safety.
>
> LSI is slowly (and awkwardly... no laughing please) building
> a web site at labsafety.org. We would be happy to have a
> place there for NACHO.
>
> What do you think? ... jak
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
>
> **********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 07:49:16 -0800
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Neal Langerman <chemsaf@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Tollens Test Disposal
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:25 PM 3/19/98 -0800, you wrote:
>If you don't work with college students, you may not understand why I
>am asking, but does anyone have suggestions / procedures, etc. for the
>handling by students of the Tollens test for aldehydes and the waste it
>creates; the solutions of which have to be neutralized with, and the
>glassware rinsed with dilute nitric acid as the non-acidified solutions
>can become explosive upon standing.
>TRR
>
>
As long as the waste solution is kept acidic, it will not form the explosive
silver ammine oxide salt. You are correct that the alkaline Tollens Reagent
does form an explosive precipitate upon standing abo
t 12 - 23 hours. Keep
it acidic.
*************************************************************
NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com
ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY
8909 Complex Drive
San Diego CA 92123-1418
619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX)
619 990 4908 (cellular)
visit our homepage: http:\\www.chemical-safety.com
*************************************************************
==================================
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:25:21 -0500
Reply-To: maddenje@bc.edu
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "John G. Madden" <maddenje@BC.EDU>
Subject: Hello, and other comments
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
A belated hello to fellow NACHO members. I am the
Chemistry Department Administrator at Boston College. My background
includes experience as a high school chemistry teacher, lab
technician, and QC lab supervisor. My current responsibilities include
administering the department safety program in coordination with the
University's Office of Environmental Health and Safety (OEHS). I am
not the University's official CHO, but I act as such for the
department.
Personally, I endorse the notion of a NACHO web-site and prefer an
organization as informal as possible.
I have already benefited from the exchange of ideas and information,
and I thank Jim and the group for that. In return, may I offer a few
insights that I have come to the hard way.
-- Although our building is fairly new and "state of the art", much
of the shelving, though nice in appearance, is quite flimsy. I don't
know what the engineers, architects, and furniture makers were
thinking, but there is a lot of adjustable shelving in research labs,
teaching labs and storage closets that are supported by small metal
clips inserted into drilled holes. The shelves have no retention bars
or lips. We are in the process of making some of these shelf units
fixed with screws and cleats, and others more stable with a better
adjustable double-pin locking shelf clip.
-- We also have many refrigerators in the department with door shelves
with a flimsy retention bar that a bottle of chemical can easily slip
under or fall over. I am in the process of having aluminum boxes
fabricated to fit on the shelves like inserts for better containment
of the bottles.
In hindsight, these seem to be blatantly obvious pitfalls, but
sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees.
-- As a suggestion to those struggling with recalcitrant PI's, I saw a
professor not known for his indulgence towards safety regulations do a
virtual attitudinal U-turn when shown some statistics on his lab's
safety record relative to the department as a whole. It has also been
the Chairman's tactic to nominate professors with the worst safety
records and/or worst attitudes to the department safety committee.
This has tended to have a more positive effect than one might
have expected, providing the committee maintains a balance of
attitudes and styles.
I am in the process of revamping our department's safety program.
We've had an active department safety committee, with mainly faculty
representation, in the department since I've been the Administrator;
committee members conduct research lab audits regularly, providing the
subject labs with a report and inspecting for corrective
follow-through; each research lab has a designated safety contact to
coordinate safety issues with me; I keep track of incidents, large and
small, with internal reports and correctives, and the committee
discusses/investigates the serious ones; the University OEHS conducts
a variety of training (CHP, biosafety, rad safety) which all grad
students, post-docs and faculty members are required to attend (under
a different periodicity depending on employment status and
involvement); OEHS also conducts lab audits with reports, and safety
equipment inspections; OEHS is the umbrella for several other
university safety committees, on each of which I sit. For all this, we
feel that our track record for safety is not especially good.
Subsequent to the last incident involving the Boston Fire Department,
I have seen a quantum leap towards greater awareness among the faculty
of their ultimate responsibility and of the true hazards present in
the workplace. I think the tragic death of Dr. Wetterhahn at Dartmouth
a while back was a wake-up call to the faculty here. Unfortunately, it
seems that death, injury, and large clean-up costs hitting close to
home are necessary ingredients for attitudinal adjustments.
One of the emerging sentiments within our faculty, to its credit,
is to conduct safety training within the department. Enlightened
faculty members recognize the need for training pursuant to the
administration of the CHP and other OEHS-underwritten programs.
However, most, if not all, regard OEHS as unable or unqualified to
deliver the kind of practical safety training that is needed to keep
our incident rate low. It looks like our biggest initiative in the
near future will be to have faculty volunteers provide at least some
of the training. It is felt that this will also motivate graduate
students and post-docs to greater levels of prudence and
responsibility in their labs. I trust that we can work in harmony with
OEHS to make productive changes.
In conclusion, I would solicit any feedback any of you would have
in answer to the following questions:
* is there any productive component of a safety program that seems
to be missing from my program as described above?
* what is your thought/experience with college faculty providing
widespread safety training in a chemistry department?
* should grad students play a more active role in teaching/learning
safety?
* do 8 building evacuations related to lab work in 5 years seem
excessive (given that we have a faculty of 20, 14 research operations,
10 teaching labs, 100 grad students, 20 post-docs, 10 - 20
researching undergrads, ~800 undergrads taking lab courses, that none
of these 8 incidents involved any injury, only 2 required substantial
facility repair, and no three were from the same cause)?
* do 30 - 40 incidents per year related to research or teaching lab
work seem excessive (given that these include small cuts or burns as
well as still explosions and substantial chemical spills; we estimate
10-15% major incidents, 30-40% moderate, remainder minor - I know this
is kind of vague and relative, but I'm only looking for a ballpark
response)?
* do you think there is a direct link between lab appearance
(cluttered vs neat and tidy) and likelihood of moderate to serious
incident?
Thank you. I look forward to learning more through this forum.
PS In case a disclaimer is needed: these are my experiences and
opinions and they do not necessarily reflect those of the individual
faculty members or of the university at large.
----------------------
John G. Madden
Administrator
Chemistry Dept.
Boston College
(617) 552-3608
maddenje@bc.edu
==================================
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:08:43 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: Re: Hello, and other comments
Comments: To: maddenje@bc.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
HI John,
Being an industrial guy, I can't comment on most of your questions. BUT I
believe there is a correlation between clutter and accidents- directly
proportional, of course. Keep it neat if you can!
Bob
John G. Madden wrote:
> A belated hello to fellow NACHO members. I am the
> Chemistry Department Administrator at Boston College. My background
> includes experience as a high school chemistry teacher, lab
> technician, and QC lab supervisor. My current responsibilities include
> administering the department safety program in coordination with the
> University's Office of Environmental Health and Safety (OEHS). I am
> not the University's official CHO, but I act as such for the
> department.
> Personally, I endorse the notion of a NACHO web-site and prefer an
> organization as informal as possible.
> I have already benefited from the exchange of ideas and information,
> and I thank Jim and the group for that. In return, may I offer a few
> insights that I have come to the hard way.
> -- Although our building is fairly new and "state of the art", much
> of the shelving, though nice in appearance, is quite flimsy. I don't
> know what the engineers, architects, and furniture makers were
> thinking, but there is a lot of adjustable shelving in research labs,
> teaching labs and storage closets that are supported by small metal
> clips inserted into drilled holes. The shelves have no retention bars
> or lips. We are in the process of making some of these shelf units
> fixed with screws and cleats, and others more stable with a better
> adjustable double-pin locking shelf clip.
> -- We also have many refrigerators in the department with door shelves
> with a flimsy retention bar that a bottle of chemical can easily slip
> under or fall over. I am in the process of having aluminum boxes
> fabricated to fit on the shelves like inserts for better containment
> of the bottles.
> In hindsight, these seem to be blatantly obvious pitfalls, but
> sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees.
> -- As a suggestion to those struggling with recalcitrant PI's, I saw a
> professor not known for his indulgence towards safety regulations do a
> virtual attitudinal U-turn when shown some statistics on his lab's
> safety record relative to the department as a whole. It has also been
> the Chairman's tactic to nominate professors with the worst safety
> records and/or worst attitudes to the department safety committee.
> This has tended to have a more positive effect than one might
> have expected, providing the committee maintains a balance of
> attitudes and styles.
> I am in the process of revamping our department's safety program.
> We've had an active department safety committee, with mainly faculty
> representation, in the department since I've been the Administrator;
> committee members conduct research lab audits regularly, providing the
> subject labs with a report and inspecting for corrective
> follow-through; each research lab has a designated safety contact to
> coordinate safety issues with me; I keep track of incidents, large and
> small, with internal reports and correctives, and the committee
> discusses/investigates the serious ones; the University OEHS conducts
> a variety of training (CHP, biosafety, rad safety) which all grad
> students, post-docs and faculty members are required to attend (under
> a different periodicity depending on employment status and
> involvement); OEHS also conducts lab audits with reports, and safety
> equipment inspections; OEHS is the umbrella for several other
> university safety committees, on each of which I sit. For all this, we
> feel that our track record for safety is not especially good.
> Subsequent to the last incident involving the Boston Fire Department,
> I have seen a quantum leap towards greater awareness among the faculty
> of their ultimate responsibility and of the true hazards present in
> the workplace. I think the tragic death of Dr. Wetterhahn at Dartmouth
> a while back was a wake-up call to the faculty here. Unfortunately, it
> seems that death, injury, and large clean-up costs hitting close to
> home are necessary ingredients for attitudinal adjustments.
> One of the emerging sentiments within our faculty, to its credit,
> is to conduct safety training within the department. Enlightened
> faculty members recognize the need for training pursuant to the
> administration of the CHP and other OEHS-underwritten programs.
> However, most, if not all, regard OEHS as unable or unqualified to
> deliver the kind of practical safety training that is needed to keep
> our incident rate low. It looks like our biggest initiative in the
> near future will be to have faculty volunteers provide at least some
> of the training. It is felt that this will also motivate graduate
> students and post-docs to greater levels of prudence and
> responsibility in their labs. I trust that we can work in harmony with
> OEHS to make productive changes.
> In conclusion, I would solicit any feedback any of you would have
> in answer to the following questions:
> * is there any productive component of a safety program that seems
> to be missing from my program as described above?
> * what is your thought/experience with college faculty providing
> widespread safety training in a chemistry department?
> * should grad students play a more active role in teaching/learning
> safety?
> * do 8 building evacuations related to lab work in 5 years seem
> excessive (given that we have a faculty of 20, 14 research operations,
> 10 teaching labs, 100 grad students, 20 post-docs, 10 - 20
> researching undergrads, ~800 undergrads taking lab courses, that none
> of these 8 incidents involved any injury, only 2 required substantial
> facility repair, and no three were from the same cause)?
> * do 30 - 40 incidents per year related to research or teaching lab
> work seem excessive (given that these include small cuts or burns as
> well as still explosions and substantial chemical spills; we estimate
> 10-15% major incidents, 30-40% moderate, remainder minor - I know this
> is kind of vague and relative, but I'm only looking for a ballpark
> response)?
> * do you think there is a direct link between lab appearance
> (cluttered vs neat and tidy) and likelihood of moderate to serious
> incident?
> Thank you. I look forward to learning more through this forum.
>
> PS In case a disclaimer is needed: these are my experiences and
> opinions and they do not necessarily reflect those of the individual
> faculty members or of the university at large.
>
> ----------------------
> John G. Madden
> Administrator
> Chemistry Dept.
> Boston College
> (617) 552-3608
> maddenje@bc.edu
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:14:19 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: MR HOWARD W SPENCER <UDSM01A@PRODIGY.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO's web site
I think a web site is a terific idea and a place to permanently
retreive useful info would be very helpful.
Do others out there use Power Point to develop training programs? I
have found it useful and would be willing to share/trade a few
graphic slides.
Howard Spencer, CSP
GST Inc
Absecon NJ
E-Mail (old co name) Spencerh@Absecon.DCS-Exxis.com.
==================================
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:52:57 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: CHO Compensation Survey
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
To: NACHO Members
From: Jim Kaufman
I would like to conduct a CHO Compensation Survey.
Please send the information either publically to the
list or privately to labsafe@aol.com. I'll compile the
results and post them to LABSAFETY-L.
Please indicate if there is no payment or compensation.
Do you get release time (how much)?
I think we will all find this very interesting and a valuable
measure of our profession.
Please suggest other questions that should be asked as
part of this survey.
Thanks... jak
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:53:00 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-20 07:54:39 EST, Bob Burns wrote:
concerning the idea of a NACHO website...
<< Sounds good to me. Would that be any different from the
discussion list we have now?
jak: It would give us the capability of holding poster sessions,
sample CHPs, sample SOPs, articles, and much much more.
LABSAFETY-L allows a measure of discussion. Maybe we could
have a labsafety chat room with special guests.
What else could we do with a web site?
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:53:04 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-20 08:23:23 EST, Kathy Benedict wrote:
<< What can any of us NACHO folks do to assist you? >>
jak: I appreciate the question. Any one interested in helping
is most welcome. I can think of a few things like...
1. helping to find more members....
2. helping to get the word out about NACHO....
3. take over the compensation survey, collect the data
and post the results....
4. offer creative, wild, imaginative ideas of what, how
NACHO could do to serve its members...
5. find a source of funding to support the organization....
6. write a news release about NACHO....
7. call the R&D safety director at the top 10/100/1000
companies and get them to join/support NACHO...
8. find a sponsor to host the dinner on wednesday, June
24th in Raleigh-Durham. (I'm already buying for the
Accident Karaoke Night on the 22nd!)
9. contact me privately and let me know that you would
like to volunteer to help...... and ....
10. pick anything that needs to be done and do it!
I belong to the H. Ross Perot School.... "The first person
who sees a snake kills it". In too many (more often than
not academic) places... if you see a snake, a committe is
appointed to study it. Then a consultant is hired to review
the committee's work. By the time the consultant's report
is received, no one can remember why the committee was
formed in the first place. And, the snake is off doing other
things.
I would trust everyone in NACHO to solve any of the problems
and issues that come up. So whether it's a snake that needs
killing or an opportunity that you would like take advantage of,
or a piece of litter on the ground. Pick it up.
Just ask yourself two questions....
1. If I do this, am I "drilling a hole in the boat below the waterline"?
If the answer is yes, talk with a few others in the Association
before doing "it".
2. How would you like reading about it on the front page of the
largest newspaper in your home town.
Boy, I feel so much better after getting that out of my system! ...jak
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:38:09 +0000
Reply-To: cdawley@transport.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Cheryl Dawley <cdawley@TRANSPORT.COM>
Subject: OSHA Compliance Inspections
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello fellow CHOs:
Here's a question I'd like to throw out there:
How many of you have been involved in OSHA compliance inspections? Any
surprises? How did it go? What were the main issues addressed?
We were inspected last year due to an employee complaint. The incident involved
a chemical exposure. Although the Dir. of Chemistry and myself wanted her seen
immediately by a physician, the personnel director questioned whether the
incident was actually work-related and did some hemming and hawing before my
boss and I found out and raised heck. Hence, the complaint to OSHA. (Sigh)
I think what surprised me most was that although the inspectors were very
cordial and non-confrontational (given the circumstances), they were not very
familiar with the Lab Standard. They tried to cite under under Haz Comm several
times for things that were clearly covered under the Lab Standard.
The bottom line was that although we came out of it very well financially, we
ended up completely restructuring our training program:
The inspectors were insisting that they should be able to walk into the lab,
quiz any of our researchers on the contents of the MSDS of any one of the 5,000
chemical substances we work with and they should be able to recite the
information. Although this is impractical and impossible in a real life lab
situation, the inspectors were used to dealing with situations where employees
deal regularly with 2-3 chemical substances (HazCom). They wouldn't back down
and we decided to get creative rather than make an issue of it. Chemical safety
training is now an interesting process where I work:
1. Annually, or when processes or projects change, employees fill out (with the
help of their supervisor) a Job Hazard Analysis (JHA) for each task or project.
The JHA includes a "Chemical Contact List" (CCL) which is simply a list of all
chemicals the employee would reasonably expect to come into contact with while
performing that task.
2. Using the CCL, the employee pulls copies of the "Chemical Hazard Analysis"
(CHA) for each chemical listed on the CCL. The CHA is a summary of hazards,
handling procedures, signs and symptoms and SPECIFIC PPE recommendations for
that chemical. The employee needs this information to adequately fill out the
JHA.
3. The completed JHA is reviewed by the supervisor and the Chemical Hygiene
Officer.
4. Using the completed JHA, the Chemical Hygiene Officer generated a Hazard
Folder, a thin binder that contains the JHA, all relevant CHAs and most
importantly, an obnoxiously neon green summary of the information that is
inserted into the ouside cover of the summary folder.
Employees are required to have the Hazard Folder for the task they are
performing in plain site or posted in the work area where that task is
performed. By doing this, the important information is immediately available
and the details close at hand.
While this may not have been what the inspectors had in mind, the employees
consider this a reasonable way to learn and/or remember important information.
The system has the added benefit of making it really easy to train new
employees, especially as many are putting their protocols, etc, in the Hazard
Folder as well.
Anyway, it all worked out rather well. Putting it all together was extremely
time-consuming, but worth the effort (and my boss was impressed!)
So has anyone else had any interesting encounters with OSHA?
Regards,
Cheryl Dawley, CHO
P.S. If anyone would like to see a copy of these forms, send your snail mail
address or fax number to cdawley@transport.com. I'll be happy to share them.
==================================
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 10:18:21 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: OSHA Compliance Inspections
Comments: To: cdawley@transport.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks for the report. I've always been curious to know if OSHA inspectors know
about the Lab Standard. Apparantly not. Scary!
IMHO- This is the value of this group!
Bob
Cheryl Dawley wrote:
> Hello fellow CHOs:
>
> Here's a question I'd like to throw out there:
>
> How many of you have been involved in OSHA compliance inspections? Any
> surprises? How did it go? What were the main issues addressed?
>
> We were inspected last year due to an employee complaint. The incident involved
> a chemical exposure. Although the Dir. of Chemistry and myself wanted her seen
> immediately by a physician, the personnel director questioned whether the
> incident was actually work-related and did some hemming and hawing before my
> boss and I found out and raised heck. Hence, the complaint to OSHA. (Sigh)
> I think what surprised me most was that although the inspectors were very
> cordial and non-confrontational (given the circumstances), they were not very
> familiar with the Lab Standard. They tried to cite under under Haz Comm several
> times for things that were clearly covered under the Lab Standard.
> The bottom line was that although we came out of it very well financially, we
> ended up completely restructuring our training program:
> The inspectors were insisting that they should be able to walk into the lab,
> quiz any of our researchers on the contents of the MSDS of any one of the 5,000
> chemical substances we work with and they should be able to recite the
> information. Although this is impractical and impossible in a real life lab
> situation, the inspectors were used to dealing with situations where employees
> deal regularly with 2-3 chemical substances (HazCom). They wouldn't back down
> and we decided to get creative rather than make an issue of it. Chemical safety
> training is now an interesting process where I work:
> 1. Annually, or when processes or projects change, employees fill out (with the
> help of their supervisor) a Job Hazard Analysis (JHA) for each task or project.
> The JHA includes a "Chemical Contact List" (CCL) which is simply a list of
all
> chemicals the employee would reasonably expect to come into contact with while
> performing that task.
> 2. Using the CCL, the employee pulls copies of the "Chemical Hazard
Analysis"
> (CHA) for each chemical listed on the CCL. The CHA is a summary of hazards,
> handling procedures, signs and symptoms and SPECIFIC PPE recommendations for
> that chemical. The employee needs this information to adequately fill out the
> JHA.
> 3. The completed JHA is reviewed by the supervisor and the Chemical Hygiene
> Officer.
> 4. Using the completed JHA, the Chemical Hygiene Officer generated a Hazard
> Folder, a thin binder that contains the JHA, all relevant CHAs and most
> importantly, an obnoxiously neon green summary of the information that is
> inserted into the ouside cover of the summary folder.
> Employees are required to have the Hazard Folder for the task they are
> performing in plain site or posted in the work area where that task is
> performed. By doing this, the important information is immediately available
> and the details close at hand.
> While this may not have been what the inspectors had in mind, the employees
> consider this a reasonable way to learn and/or remember important information.
> The system has the added benefit of making it really easy to train new
> employees, especially as many are putting their protocols, etc, in the Hazard
> Folder as well.
>
> Anyway, it all worked out rather well. Putting it all together was extremely
> time-consuming, but worth the effort (and my boss was impressed!)
>
> So has anyone else had any interesting encounters with OSHA?
>
> Regards,
>
> Cheryl Dawley, CHO
>
> P.S. If anyone would like to see a copy of these forms, send your snail mail
> address or fax number to cdawley@transport.com. I'll be happy to share them.
--
Bob Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corp.
201 Struble Road
State College, PA
phone 8142319214
fax 8142381567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 10:20:23 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I'm a working chemist and Group leader- CHO duties are additional. So the
question of compensation does not apply- I get paid for my primary job!
Bob
Labsafe wrote:
> To: NACHO Members
> From: Jim Kaufman
>
> I would like to conduct a CHO Compensation Survey.
> Please send the information either publically to the
> list or privately to labsafe@aol.com. I'll compile the
> results and post them to LABSAFETY-L.
>
> Please indicate if there is no payment or compensation.
> Do you get release time (how much)?
>
> I think we will all find this very interesting and a valuable
> measure of our profession.
>
> Please suggest other questions that should be asked as
> part of this survey.
>
> Thanks... jak
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
> **********************************************************************
--
Bob Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corp.
201 Struble Road
State College, PA
phone 8142319214
fax 8142381567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 10:21:56 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sounds good to me. I'll sign up to help!
Bob
Labsafe wrote:
> In a message dated 98-03-20 07:54:39 EST, Bob Burns wrote:
> concerning the idea of a NACHO website...
>
> << Sounds good to me. Would that be any different from the
> discussion list we have now?
>
> jak: It would give us the capability of holding poster sessions,
> sample CHPs, sample SOPs, articles, and much much more.
> LABSAFETY-L allows a measure of discussion. Maybe we could
> have a labsafety chat room with special guests.
>
> What else could we do with a web site?
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
> **********************************************************************
--
Bob Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corp.
201 Struble Road
State College, PA
phone 8142319214
fax 8142381567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 09:27:07 -0800
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Neal Langerman <chemsaf@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
CHOs fall into two general employment classes: Those who work through an
EH&S office and are hired as a CHO and those who become a CHO as an
additional duty. In either case, these are professional positions which
include a wide variety of duties, including CHO. In this context, your
question is a tad flawed.
In terms of the EH&S CHO, I have seen salaries from the mid 30's to the mid
70's, depending on the full position.
Neal
At 10:20 AM 3/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm a working chemist and Group leader- CHO duties are additional. So the
>question of compensation does not apply- I get paid for my primary job!
>
>Bob
>
>Labsafe wrote:
>
>> To: NACHO Members
>> From: Jim Kaufman
>>
>> I would like to conduct a CHO Compensation Survey.
>> Please send the information either publically to the
>> list or privately to labsafe@aol.com. I'll compile the
>> results and post them to LABSAFETY-L.
>>
>> Please indicate if there is no payment or compensation.
>> Do you get release time (how much)?
>>
>> I think we will all find this very interesting and a valuable
>> measure of our profession.
>>
>> Please suggest other questions that should be asked as
>> part of this survey.
>>
>> Thanks... jak
>>
>> *****************************************************
>> James A. Kaufman, President
>> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
>> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
>> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
>> Safety in Science Education
>>
>> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
>> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
>> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
>> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
>> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>>
>> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
>> **********************************************************************
>
>
>
>--
>
>Bob Burns
>Group Leader, R&D
>Ruetgers-Nease Corp.
>201 Struble Road
>State College, PA
>phone 8142319214
>fax 8142381567
>email rburns@bigfoot.com
>
>
*************************************************************
NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com
ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY
8909 Complex Drive
San Diego CA 92123-1418
619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX)
619 990 4908 (cellular)
visit our homepage: http:\\www.chemical-safety.com
*************************************************************
==================================
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 22:18:36 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-21 12:26:37 EST, Neal Langerman wrote:
<< CHOs fall into two general employment classes: Those who work through an
EH&S office and are hired as a CHO and those who become a CHO as an
additional duty. In either case, these are professional positions which
include a wide variety of duties, including CHO. In this context, your
question is a tad flawed. >>
jak: I guess I'm missing something. What was the question being
referred to and what was the flawed part?
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 22:18:33 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-21 10:20:41 EST, Bob Burns wrote:
<< I'm a working chemist and Group leader- CHO duties are additional.
So the question of compensation does not apply- I get paid for my
primary job! >>
JAK: What I had in mind for cases like this was to look at the % of
the job that was allocated to CHO work and the persons gross
salary.
So, a company paying a chemist/group leader $50K and asking
her/him to spend 25% of her/his time on CHO work is paying
$10K.
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 01:10:41 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Robert E. Brennan" <BobBrennan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: High School Lab Accident
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
The following reference is to an article in the Maui News. I am a High
School chemistry teacher and will use this in a safety lesson.
http://www.maui.net/~mauinews/lnews5a.htm
Bob Brennan
Castle HS
Kaneohe, HI
==================================
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 10:28:15 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jim, now I understand the question.
Wouldn't that depend on the size of the laboratory involved? I spend maybe 5%
of my time as CHO- for a lab of about 15 people, mixed chemists and techs, mixed
process, analytical and QC.
Bob
Labsafe wrote:
> In a message dated 98-03-21 10:20:41 EST, Bob Burns wrote:
>
> << I'm a working chemist and Group leader- CHO duties are additional.
> So the question of compensation does not apply- I get paid for my
> primary job! >>
>
> JAK: What I had in mind for cases like this was to look at the % of
> the job that was allocated to CHO work and the persons gross
> salary.
>
> So, a company paying a chemist/group leader $50K and asking
> her/him to spend 25% of her/his time on CHO work is paying
> $10K.
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
> **********************************************************************
--
Bob Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corp.
201 Struble Road
State College, PA
phone 8142319214
fax 8142381567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 10:42:24 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: High School Lab Accident
Comments: To: "Robert E. Brennan" <BobBrennan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks for sharing.
NI3 has been known for a long time. All the stories I've heard about it
say never let it dry out. NCl3 is worse- thus the warnings about never
mix ammonia and bleach.
IMHO- this HS lab needs better- or more informed- supervision. A kid
should never be allowed to make NI3. And obviously should have been
wearing eye protection. In my experience, most accidents happen because
of a combination of things which could have and should have been
corrected, and this fits the pattern.
Interesting that part of the article is blown out of proportion- caustic
will not, to my knowledge, explode in water. You will get a lot of heat
of solution, but explode? Don't think so!
Bob
Robert E. Brennan wrote:
> The following reference is to an article in the Maui News. I am a High
> School chemistry teacher and will use this in a safety lesson.
>
> http://www.maui.net/~mauinews/lnews5a.htm
>
> Bob Brennan
> Castle HS
> Kaneohe, HI
--
Bob Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corp.
201 Struble Road
State College, PA
phone 8142319214
fax 8142381567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:36:13 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-22 10:32:44 EST, you write:
<< Jim, now I understand the question.
Wouldn't that depend on the size of the laboratory involved?
I spend maybe 5% of my time as CHO- for a lab of about 15
people, mixed chemists and techs, mixed process, analytical
and QC.... Bob >>
JAK: Yes, the size of the lab or labs (that is, the number of people
the CHO is responsible for helping) does make a difference).
Folks could indicate the number of people covered and the % of
time allocated for these responsibilities.
So far we've had four responses.
I was reminded by one member (N.L.), who was kind enought to
point it out privately, that 25% of $50k is $12.5k and not $25k.
So, now the truth about my math skills is out of the bag!
Does this mean I've decreased my chances of being NACHO's
treasurer? Or, do you think we should elect N.L.?
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:15:35 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: CGotall <CGotall@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Jim,
Not to be a nit picker, but one fourth of 50 is not 10! Has new math
invaded Lab Safety?
Carl
==================================
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:09:36 -0800
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Neal Langerman <chemsaf@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jim:
Most employers will not look at ancillary duty as a percentage of a
professional's salary. While it is nice to think about it that way, if you
are a lab chemist making $50k, and you spend 25% of your time on CHO duties,
we can cost account the time to $12.5k, but this is not what happens. If,
however, you work for EH&S, and make $50k and are the CHO, then what happens
is that the CHO gets $50k.
The problem is how employers cost-account salaries. There is no standard
method. Until CHOs become full-time positions. the salary question will be
confusing.
Neal
At 10:18 PM 3/21/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-03-21 12:26:37 EST, Neal Langerman wrote:
>
><< CHOs fall into two general employment classes: Those who work through an
> EH&S office and are hired as a CHO and those who become a CHO as an
> additional duty. In either case, these are professional positions which
> include a wide variety of duties, including CHO. In this context, your
> question is a tad flawed. >>
>
>jak: I guess I'm missing something. What was the question being
> referred to and what was the flawed part?
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
>The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
>organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
>important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
>Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
>schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
>LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
> **********************************************************************
>
>
*************************************************************
NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com
ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY
8909 Complex Drive
San Diego CA 92123-1418
619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX)
619 990 4908 (cellular)
visit our homepage: http:\\www.chemical-safety.com
*************************************************************
==================================
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:37:04 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-22 14:26:06 EST, Carl Gottschall wrote:
<< Jim, Not to be a nit picker, but one fourth of 50 is not 10!
Has new math invaded Lab Safety? Carl >>
JAK: New, No. Poor, Yes!
For those NACHO members who have not met Carl, he's the
editor of Chemical Health and Safety Magazine that everyone
has be raving about on the list. I'm sure he would welcome your
contributed articles (if not my math).
On the numeric side, maybe we've found a second candidate to
run for NACHO treasurer!
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:37:07 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-22 15:09:22 EST, Neal Langerman wrote:
<< Most employers will not look at ancillary duty as a percentage of a
professional's salary. While it is nice to think about it that way, if you
are a lab chemist making $50k, and you spend 25% of your time on CHO
duties, we can cost account the time to $12.5k, but this is not what
happens. If, however, you work for EH&S, and make $50k and are the
CHO, then what happens is that the CHO gets $50k.
The problem is how employers cost-account salaries. There is no
standard method. Until CHOs become full-time positions. the salary
question will be confusing. >>
JAK: Neal's absolutely right. It's not what happens, it's just what we
need to do to get on with it. Of course, if anyone has another method
that we should be using, let's consider it.
I hope a chemist who is making $50K and is asked by his/her employer
to be CHO will (1) examine what needs to be done and put it in writing,
(2) review the list with his/her supervisor and ask "how much of my time
do you want me to allocate to this project and what shall we take off my
plate to make room for it", (3) get the supervisors signature/initials on the
items that are expected to be accomplished in the current year.
If the items to be accomplished fall far short of achieving full compliance
and the company is cited and fined by OSHA, the employee will have in
writing what he or she was responsible for. The company is responsible
for full compliance.
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:37:05 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: DCHAS Executive Board Meeting
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
The ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety's Executive
Board will meet in Dallas at the Le Meridien Hotel in the
Normandy Room at 8-12AM on Sunday, March 29th.
The ACS Joint Board/Council Committee on Chemical
Safety will meet on Monday, March 30th. Does anyone
on the list have the location.
Anyone who's interested is welcome to attend as a visitor.
Showing up at these meetings is an excellent way to begin
getting involved and to meet others with a common interest
in safety.
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:47:09 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: The NACHO Breakfast in Dallas
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
To: All NACHO Members (LABSAFETY-L Readers)
Re: Breakfast meeting in Dallas
There will be an informal gathering of NACHO members
for breakfast at the ACS meeting in Dallas on Monday,
March 30th at 7:30-8:30AM in the Hyatt Regency Hotel
restaurant (hopefully, there's only one). Pat Hamm and
I will be there and look forward to meeting with other members.
If there is any ambiguity about the location, check at the Bell
Captain's Desk.
Following the breakfast the ACS Joint Board/Council Committee
Chemical Safety (CCCS) will meet in the Reunion Ballroom A
in the same hotel. Dr. Bernard Blais will make a presentation
on contact lenses. He is in favor of their use in labs. Visitors
are welcome.
Thanks to Eileen Segal for the meeting location information. I guess
this shows that there are folks out there looking that this list. .... jak
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:45:05 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: High School Lab Accident
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-22 01:27:44 EST, Bob Brennan wrote:
<< The following reference is to an article in the Maui News. I am a
High School chemistry teacher and will use this in a safety lesson.
http://www.maui.net/~mauinews/lnews5a.htm >>
JAK: This kind of information would be of great interest to all the
members. Please post a copy of the article to the list.
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 06:02:17 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY
L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Dean Flinchbaugh <0002daf@SYS1.BSCO.COM>
Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 19 Mar 1998 to 20 Mar 1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD5621.3F79D360"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BD5621.3F79D360
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
30-40 incidents per years seems high to me, especially in light of the =
frequency of "repeats". Is your follow-up program as effective as you =
wish it to be? =20
Sincerely,
Dean A. Flinchbaugh
Bethlehem Steel Corporation
Homer Research Laboratories
1170 Eighth Ave.
Bethlehem PA 18016
Phone: 610-694-6473
FAX: 610-194-1739
Email: 0002daf@sys1.bsco.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor [SMTP:LISTSERV@SIU.EDU]
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 1998 1:00 AM
To: Recipients of LABSAFETY-L digests
Subject: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 19 Mar 1998 to 20 Mar 1998
There are 10 messages totalling 650 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. NACHO's Future (4)
2. Tollens Test Disposal
3. Hello, and other comments (2)
4. NACHO's web site
5. CHO Compensation Survey
6. OSHA Compliance Inspections
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 07:53:48 -0500
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
Sounds good to me. Would that be any different from the discussion list =
we have
now?
Bob
Labsafe wrote:
> Hi NACHO members,
>
> When I was reading Janeen LaPierre's comments it occurred to
> me that one of the things we could consider doing is to set up
> a NACHO web site where we could post information of value
> to CHO's and folks interested in lab safety.
>
> LSI is slowly (and awkwardly... no laughing please) building
> a web site at labsafety.org. We would be happy to have a
> place there for NACHO.
>
> What do you think? ... jak
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
> =
**********************************************************************
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:21:33 -0500
From: "Benedict, Kathryn" <BENEDIK@WOLF.RESEARCH.AA.WL.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
Jim,
I think adding a NACHO link on the LSI website is a good idea.
I can forsee looking up things like our list of the most valuable
reference books for CHO's, safety stories, etc there for starters...
What can any of us NACHO folks do to assist you?
Kathy Benedict
benedik@aa.wl.com
-Davis-----Original Message-----
> From: Labsafe [SMTP:Labsafe@AOL.COM]
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 1998 11:53 PM
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
>
> Hi NACHO members,
>
> When I was reading Janeen LaPierre's comments it occurred to
> me that one of the things we could consider doing is to set up
> a NACHO web site where we could post information of value
> to CHO's and folks interested in lab safety.
>
> LSI is slowly (and awkwardly... no laughing please) building
> a web site at labsafety.org. We would be happy to have a
> place there for NACHO.
>
> What do you think? ... jak
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
>
> **********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 07:49:16 -0800
From: Neal Langerman <chemsaf@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Tollens Test Disposal
At 05:25 PM 3/19/98 -0800, you wrote:
>If you don't work with college students, you may not understand why I
>am asking, but does anyone have suggestions / procedures, etc. for the
>handling by students of the Tollens test for aldehydes and the waste it
>creates; the solutions of which have to be neutralized with, and the
>glassware rinsed with dilute nitric acid as the non-acidified solutions
>can become explosive upon standing.
>TRR
>
>
As long as the waste solution is kept acidic, it will not form the =
explosive
silver ammine oxide salt. You are correct that the alkaline Tollens =
Reagent
does form an explosive precipitate upon standing about 12 - 23 hours. =
Keep
it acidic.
*************************************************************
NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com
ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY
8909 Complex Drive
San Diego CA 92123-1418
619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX)
619 990 4908 (cellular)
visit our homepage: http:\\www.chemical-safety.com
*************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:25:21 -0500
From: "John G. Madden" <maddenje@BC.EDU>
Subject: Hello, and other comments
A belated hello to fellow NACHO members. I am the
Chemistry Department Administrator at Boston College. My background
includes experience as a high school chemistry teacher, lab
technician, and QC lab supervisor. My current responsibilities include
administering the department safety program in coordination with the
University's Office of Environmental Health and Safety (OEHS). I am
not the University's official CHO, but I act as such for the
department.
Personally, I endorse the notion of a NACHO web-site and prefer an
organization as informal as possible.
I have already benefited from the exchange of ideas and information,
and I thank Jim and the group for that. In return, may I offer a few
insights that I have come to the hard way.
-- Although our building is fairly new and "state of the art", much
of the shelving, though nice in appearance, is quite flimsy. I don't
know what the engineers, architects, and furniture makers were
thinking, but there is a lot of adjustable shelving in research labs,
teaching labs and storage closets that are supported by small metal
clips inserted into drilled holes. The shelves have no retention bars
or lips. We are in the process of making some of these shelf units
fixed with screws and cleats, and others more stable with a better
adjustable double-pin locking shelf clip.
-- We also have many refrigerators in the department with door shelves
with a flimsy retention bar that a bottle of chemical can easily slip
under or fall over. I am in the process of having aluminum boxes
fabricated to fit on the shelves like inserts for better containment
of the bottles.
In hindsight, these seem to be blatantly obvious pitfalls, but
sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees.
-- As a suggestion to those struggling with recalcitrant PI's, I saw a
professor not known for his indulgence towards safety regulations do a
virtual attitudinal U-turn when shown some statistics on his lab's
safety record relative to the department as a whole. It has also been
the Chairman's tactic to nominate professors with the worst safety
records and/or worst attitudes to the department safety committee.
This has tended to have a more positive effect than one might
have expected, providing the committee maintains a balance of
attitudes and styles.
I am in the process of revamping our department's safety program.
We've had an active department safety committee, with mainly faculty
representation, in the department since I've been the Administrator;
committee members conduct research lab audits regularly, providing the
subject labs with a report and inspecting for corrective
follow-through; each research lab has a designated safety contact to
coordinate safety issues with me; I keep track of incidents, large and
small, with internal reports and correctives, and the committee
discusses/investigates the serious ones; the University OEHS conducts
a variety of training (CHP, biosafety, rad safety) which all grad
students, post-docs and faculty members are required to attend (under
a different periodicity depending on employment status and
involvement); OEHS also conducts lab audits with reports, and safety
equipment inspections; OEHS is the umbrella for several other
university safety committees, on each of which I sit. For all this, we
feel that our track record for safety is not especially good.
Subsequent to the last incident involving the Boston Fire Department,
I have seen a quantum leap towards greater awareness among the faculty
of their ultimate responsibility and of the true hazards present in
the workplace. I think the tragic death of Dr. Wetterhahn at Dartmouth
a while back was a wake-up call to the faculty here. Unfortunately, it
seems that death, injury, and large clean-up costs hitting close to
home are necessary ingredients for attitudinal adjustments.
One of the emerging sentiments within our faculty, to its credit,
is to conduct safety training within the department. Enlightened
faculty members recognize the need for training pursuant to the
administration of the CHP and other OEHS-underwritten programs.
However, most, if not all, regard OEHS as unable or unqualified to
deliver the kind of practical safety training that is needed to keep
our incident rate low. It looks like our biggest initiative in the
near future will be to have faculty volunteers provide at least some
of the training. It is felt that this will also motivate graduate
students and post-docs to greater levels of prudence and
responsibility in their labs. I trust that we can work in harmony with
OEHS to make productive changes.
In conclusion, I would solicit any feedback any of you would have
in answer to the following questions:
* is there any productive component of a safety program that seems
to be missing from my program as described above?
* what is your thought/experience with college faculty providing
widespread safety training in a chemistry department?
* should grad students play a more active role in teaching/learning
safety?
* do 8 building evacuations related to lab work in 5 years seem
excessive (given that we have a faculty of 20, 14 research operations,
10 teaching labs, 100 grad students, 20 post-docs, 10 - 20
researching undergrads, ~800 undergrads taking lab courses, that none
of these 8 incidents involved any injury, only 2 required substantial
facility repair, and no three were from the same cause)?
* do 30 - 40 incidents per year related to research or teaching lab
work seem excessive (given that these include small cuts or burns as
well as still explosions and substantial chemical spills; we estimate
10-15% major incidents, 30-40% moderate, remainder minor - I know this
is kind of vague and relative, but I'm only looking for a ballpark
response)?
* do you think there is a direct link between lab appearance
(cluttered vs neat and tidy) and likelihood of moderate to serious
incident?
Thank you. I look forward to learning more through this forum.
PS In case a disclaimer is needed: these are my experiences and
opinions and they do not necessarily reflect those of the individual
faculty members or of the university at large.
----------------------
John G. Madden
Administrator
Chemistry Dept.
Boston College
(617) 552-3608
maddenje@bc.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:08:43 -0500
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello, and other comments
HI John,
Being an industrial guy, I can't comment on most of your questions. BUT =
I
believe there is a correlation between clutter and accidents- directly
proportional, of course. Keep it neat if you can!
Bob
John G. Madden wrote:
> A belated hello to fellow NACHO members. I am the
> Chemistry Department Administrator at Boston College. My background
> includes experience as a high school chemistry teacher, lab
> technician, and QC lab supervisor. My current responsibilities include
> administering the department safety program in coordination with the
> University's Office of Environmental Health and Safety (OEHS). I am
> not the University's official CHO, but I act as such for the
> department.
> Personally, I endorse the notion of a NACHO web-site and prefer an
> organization as informal as possible.
> I have already benefited from the exchange of ideas and information,
> and I thank Jim and the group for that. In return, may I offer a few
> insights that I have come to the hard way.
> -- Although our building is fairly new and "state of the art", much
> of the shelving, though nice in appearance, is quite flimsy. I don't
> know what the engineers, architects, and furniture makers were
> thinking, but there is a lot of adjustable shelving in research labs,
> teaching labs and storage closets that are supported by small metal
> clips inserted into drilled holes. The shelves have no retention bars
> or lips. We are in the process of making some of these shelf units
> fixed with screws and cleats, and others more stable with a better
> adjustable double-pin locking shelf clip.
> -- We also have many refrigerators in the department with door shelves
> with a flimsy retention bar that a bottle of chemical can easily slip
> under or fall over. I am in the process of having aluminum boxes
> fabricated to fit on the shelves like inserts for better containment
> of the bottles.
> In hindsight, these seem to be blatantly obvious pitfalls, but
> sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees.
> -- As a suggestion to those struggling with recalcitrant PI's, I saw a
> professor not known for his indulgence towards safety regulations do a
> virtual attitudinal U-turn when shown some statistics on his lab's
> safety record relative to the department as a whole. It has also been
> the Chairman's tactic to nominate professors with the worst safety
> records and/or worst attitudes to the department safety committee.
> This has tended to have a more positive effect than one might
> have expected, providing the committee maintains a balance of
> attitudes and styles.
> I am in the process of revamping our department's safety program.
> We've had an active department safety committee, with mainly faculty
> representation, in the department since I've been the Administrator;
> committee members conduct research lab audits regularly, providing the
> subject labs with a report and inspecting for corrective
> follow-through; each research lab has a designated safety contact to
> coordinate safety issues with me; I keep track of incidents, large and
> small, with internal reports and correctives, and the committee
> discusses/investigates the serious ones; the University OEHS conducts
> a variety of training (CHP, biosafety, rad safety) which all grad
> students, post-docs and faculty members are required to attend (under
> a different periodicity depending on employment status and
> involvement); OEHS also conducts lab audits with reports, and safety
> equipment inspections; OEHS is the umbrella for several other
> university safety committees, on each of which I sit. For all this, we
> feel that our track record for safety is not especially good.
> Subsequent to the last incident involving the Boston Fire Department,
> I have seen a quantum leap towards greater awareness among the faculty
> of their ultimate responsibility and of the true hazards present in
> the workplace. I think the tragic death of Dr. Wetterhahn at Dartmouth
> a while back was a wake-up call to the faculty here. Unfortunately, it
> seems that death, injury, and large clean-up costs hitting close to
> home are necessary ingredients for attitudinal adjustments.
> One of the emerging sentiments within our faculty, to its credit,
> is to conduct safety training within the department. Enlightened
> faculty members recognize the need for training pursuant to the
> administration of the CHP and other OEHS-underwritten programs.
> However, most, if not all, regard OEHS as unable or unqualified to
> deliver the kind of practical safety training that is needed to keep
> our incident rate low. It looks like our biggest initiative in the
> near future will be to have faculty volunteers provide at least some
> of the training. It is felt that this will also motivate graduate
> students and post-docs to greater levels of prudence and
> responsibility in their labs. I trust that we can work in harmony with
> OEHS to make productive changes.
> In conclusion, I would solicit any feedback any of you would have
> in answer to the following questions:
> * is there any productive component of a safety program that seems
> to be missing from my program as described above?
> * what is your thought/experience with college faculty providing
> widespread safety training in a chemistry department?
> * should grad students play a more active role in teaching/learning
> safety?
> * do 8 building evacuations related to lab work in 5 years seem
> excessive (given that we have a faculty of 20, 14 research operations,
> 10 teaching labs, 100 grad students, 20 post-docs, 10 - 20
> researching undergrads, ~800 undergrads taking lab courses, that none
> of these 8 incidents involved any injury, only 2 required substantial
> facility repair, and no three were from the same cause)?
> * do 30 - 40 incidents per year related to research or teaching lab
> work seem excessive (given that these include small cuts or burns as
> well as still explosions and substantial chemical spills; we estimate
> 10-15% major incidents, 30-40% moderate, remainder minor - I know this
> is kind of vague and relative, but I'm only looking for a ballpark
> response)?
> * do you think there is a direct link between lab appearance
> (cluttered vs neat and tidy) and likelihood of moderate to serious
> incident?
> Thank you. I look forward to learning more through this forum.
>
> PS In case a disclaimer is needed: these are my experiences and
> opinions and they do not necessarily reflect those of the individual
> faculty members or of the university at large.
>
> ----------------------
> John G. Madden
> Administrator
> Chemistry Dept.
> Boston College
> (617) 552-3608
> maddenje@bc.edu
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:14:19 -0500
From: MR HOWARD W SPENCER <UDSM01A@PRODIGY.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO's web site
I think a web site is a terific idea and a place to permanently
retreive useful info would be very helpful.
Do others out there use Power Point to develop training programs? I
have found it useful and would be willing to share/trade a few
graphic slides.
Howard Spencer, CSP
GST Inc
Absecon NJ
E-Mail (old co name) Spencerh@Absecon.DCS-Exxis.com.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:52:57 EST
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: CHO Compensation Survey
To: NACHO Members
From: Jim Kaufman
I would like to conduct a CHO Compensation Survey.
Please send the information either publically to the
list or privately to labsafe@aol.com. I'll compile the
results and post them to LABSAFETY-L.
Please indicate if there is no payment or compensation.
Do you get release time (how much)?
I think we will all find this very interesting and a valuable
measure of our profession.
Please suggest other questions that should be asked as
part of this survey.
Thanks... jak
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
=
**********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:53:00 EST
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
In a message dated 98-03-20 07:54:39 EST, Bob Burns wrote:
concerning the idea of a NACHO website...
<< Sounds good to me. Would that be any different from the
discussion list we have now?
jak: It would give us the capability of holding poster sessions,
sample CHPs, sample SOPs, articles, and much much more.
LABSAFETY-L allows a measure of discussion. Maybe we could
have a labsafety chat room with special guests.
What else could we do with a web site?
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
=
**********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:53:04 EST
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO's Future
In a message dated 98-03-20 08:23:23 EST, Kathy Benedict wrote:
<< What can any of us NACHO folks do to assist you? >>
jak: I appreciate the question. Any one interested in helping
is most welcome. I can think of a few things like...
1. helping to find more members....
2. helping to get the word out about NACHO....
3. take over the compensation survey, collect the data
and post the results....
4. offer creative, wild, imaginative ideas of what, how
NACHO could do to serve its members...
5. find a source of funding to support the organization....
6. write a news release about NACHO....
7. call the R&D safety director at the top 10/100/1000
companies and get them to join/support NACHO...
8. find a sponsor to host the dinner on wednesday, June
24th in Raleigh-Durham. (I'm already buying for the
Accident Karaoke Night on the 22nd!)
9. contact me privately and let me know that you would
like to volunteer to help...... and ....
10. pick anything that needs to be done and do it!
I belong to the H. Ross Perot School.... "The first person
who sees a snake kills it". In too many (more often than
not academic) places... if you see a snake, a committe is
appointed to study it. Then a consultant is hired to review
the committee's work. By the time the consultant's report
is received, no one can remember why the committee was
formed in the first place. And, the snake is off doing other
things.
I would trust everyone in NACHO to solve any of the problems
and issues that come up. So whether it's a snake that needs
killing or an opportunity that you would like take advantage of,
or a piece of litter on the ground. Pick it up.
Just ask yourself two questions....
1. If I do this, am I "drilling a hole in the boat below the waterline"?
If the answer is yes, talk with a few others in the Association
before doing "it".
2. How would you like reading about it on the front page of the
largest newspaper in your home town.
Boy, I feel so much better after getting that out of my system! ...jak
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
=
**********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:38:09 +0000
From: Cheryl Dawley <cdawley@TRANSPORT.COM>
Subject: OSHA Compliance Inspections
Hello fellow CHOs:
Here's a question I'd like to throw out there:
How many of you have been involved in OSHA compliance inspections? Any
surprises? How did it go? What were the main issues addressed?
We were inspected last year due to an employee complaint. The incident =
involved
a chemical exposure. Although the Dir. of Chemistry and myself wanted =
her seen
immediately by a physician, the personnel director questioned whether =
the
incident was actually work-related and did some hemming and hawing =
before my
boss and I found out and raised heck. Hence, the complaint to OSHA. =
(Sigh)
I think what surprised me most was that although the inspectors were =
very
cordial and non-confrontational (given the circumstances), they were not =
very
familiar with the Lab Standard. They tried to cite under under Haz Comm =
several
times for things that were clearly covered under the Lab Standard.
The bottom line was that although we came out of it very well =
financially, we
ended up completely restructuring our training program:
The inspectors were insisting that they should be able to walk into the =
lab,
quiz any of our researchers on the contents of the MSDS of any one of =
the 5,000
chemical substances we work with and they should be able to recite the
information. Although this is impractical and impossible in a real life =
lab
situation, the inspectors were used to dealing with situations where =
employees
deal regularly with 2-3 chemical substances (HazCom). They wouldn't =
back down
and we decided to get creative rather than make an issue of it. =
Chemical safety
training is now an interesting process where I work:
1. Annually, or when processes or projects change, employees fill out =
(with the
help of their supervisor) a Job Hazard Analysis (JHA) for each task or =
project.
The JHA includes a "Chemical Contact List" (CCL) which is simply a list =
of all
chemicals the employee would reasonably expect to come into contact with =
while
performing that task.
2. Using the CCL, the employee pulls copies of the "Chemical Hazard =
Analysis"
(CHA) for each chemical listed on the CCL. The CHA is a summary of =
hazards,
handling procedures, signs and symptoms and SPECIFIC PPE recommendations =
for
that chemical. The employee needs this information to adequately fill =
out the
JHA.
3. The completed JHA is reviewed by the supervisor and the Chemical =
Hygiene
Officer.
4. Using the completed JHA, the Chemical Hygiene Officer generated a =
Hazard
Folder, a thin binder that contains the JHA, all relevant CHAs and most
importantly, an obnoxiously neon green summary of the information that =
is
inserted into the ouside cover of the summary folder.
Employees are required to have the Hazard Folder for the task they are
performing in plain site or posted in the work area where that task is
performed. By doing this, the important information is immediately =
available
and the details close at hand.
While this may not have been what the inspectors had in mind, the =
employees
consider this a reasonable way to learn and/or remember important =
information.
The system has the added benefit of making it really easy to train new
employees, especially as many are putting their protocols, etc, in the =
Hazard
Folder as well.
Anyway, it all worked out rather well. Putting it all together was =
extremely
time-consuming, but worth the effort (and my boss was impressed!)
So has anyone else had any interesting encounters with OSHA?
Regards,
Cheryl Dawley, CHO
P.S. If anyone would like to see a copy of these forms, send your snail =
mail
address or fax number to cdawley@transport.com. I'll be happy to share =
them.
------------------------------
End of LABSAFETY-L Digest - 19 Mar 1998 to 20 Mar 1998
******************************************************
------ =_NextPart_000_01BD5621.3F79D360
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 07:54:44 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Dennis Edwards <Dedwards@MAIL.COLGATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain
Other possible questions for survey:
1. Percentage of time devoted to CHO responsibilities.
2. Size of organization (employees, students, # of labs, or similiar
stats).
Dennis Edwards
Environmental Health and Safety Coordinator
Colgate University
SB-4 McGregory Hall
Hamilton, NY 13346
315-228-7994
http://offices.colgate.edu/chemmgt/
> ----------
> From: Labsafe[SMTP:Labsafe@AOL.COM]
> Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List
> Sent: Friday, March 20, 1998 9:52 PM
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: CHO Compensation Survey
>
> To: NACHO Members
> From: Jim Kaufman
>
> I would like to conduct a CHO Compensation Survey.
> Please send the information either publically to the
> list or privately to labsafe@aol.com. I'll compile the
> results and post them to LABSAFETY-L.
>
> Please indicate if there is no payment or compensation.
> Do you get release time (how much)?
>
> I think we will all find this very interesting and a valuable
> measure of our profession.
>
> Please suggest other questions that should be asked as
> part of this survey.
>
> Thanks... jak
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List,
> seminar
> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
>
> **********************************************************************
>
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:48:26 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "DAVID L. PERRAM" <dlperram@MTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Not everyone is a full-time CHO. A good question might be what percentage
of time is spent in this area. I may be late with this comment but I am
just returning from surgery (everything went fine and I am in good shape).
At 09:52 PM 3/20/98 EST, you wrote:
> To: NACHO Members
> From: Jim Kaufman
>
> I would like to conduct a CHO Compensation Survey.
> Please send the information either publically to the
> list or privately to labsafe@aol.com. I'll compile the
> results and post them to LABSAFETY-L.
>
> Please indicate if there is no payment or compensation.
> Do you get release time (how much)?
>
> I think we will all find this very interesting and a valuable
> measure of our profession.
>
> Please suggest other questions that should be asked as
> part of this survey.
>
> Thanks... jak
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
> **********************************************************************
>
>
David L. Perram
Research Scientist II
Civil and Environmental Engineering
Michigan Technological University
1400 Townsend Dr.
Houghton, MI 49931
Phone (906) 487-2713
Fax (906) 487-3292
Secretary Phone (906) 487-2098
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:42:33 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Jon Rossillon <jrossillon@EHS.UKANS.EDU>
Subject: What is a Chemical Hygiene Officer (CHO)?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I subscribed to the list to enhance my understanding of the lab safety area; my initial
question is "What is a CHO?"
Regards,
Jon Rossillon
jrossillon@ehs.ukans.edu
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:07:39 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Dr. Linda A. Swihart" <swihart@PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The flaw might very well be in the fact that many people whose job
responsibilities include lab safety DO NOT have that responsibility
included in their job description. No mention, zilch, zippo.
>JAK: What I had in mind for cases like this was to look at the % of
> the job that was allocated to CHO work and the persons gross
> salary.
>
> So, a company paying a chemist/group leader $50K and asking
> her/him to spend 25% of her/his time on CHO work is paying
> $10K.
>
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:08:41 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Harry Elston <helston@FGI.NET>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:54 AM 3/23/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Other possible questions for survey:
>
>1. Percentage of time devoted to CHO responsibilities.
>2. Size of organization (employees, students, # of labs, or similiar
>stats).
>
Dennis,
"Percentage of time devoted" may or may not be a good measure. My
"official" job description says that I am to spend 30% of my time devoted
to defined and inherited CHO duties. (I inherited some of the facility
safety officer's duties when he retired 2+ years ago.) However, if I have
a heavy week, I may spend up to 100% of my time and even some donated
overtime to CHO duties. Other weeks, maybe only 20-30% of my time. It
"just all depends."
There is an upcoming article in CH&S entitled "Defining the role of the
CHO" that may add something to this discussion. I hear that it is going to
be in the May/June issue. However, the article does not discuss compensation.
Good luck!
Harry
Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO
Chemical Hygiene Officer
Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety
Opinions are mine, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah
"One more anal-probing, gyro-pyro, levatating
eco-plasm, alien anti-matter story and I'm gonna
take my gun out and shoot somebody."
-Special Agent Fox Mulder
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:08:44 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Harry Elston <helston@FGI.NET>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:07 AM 3/23/98 -0500, you wrote:
>The flaw might very well be in the fact that many people whose job
>responsibilities include lab safety DO NOT have that responsibility
>included in their job description. No mention, zilch, zippo.
>
Those that don't should reconsider and approach managment on getting it in
their job description. As far as I can see, the CHO is one of the ONLY
OSHA required positions to be filled by name, and published in the
facility's Chemical Hygiene Plan. To not have it mentioned in the job
description is either an oversight or a way some managers weasle out of
recognizing the CHO as a vital safety professional.
Harry
Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO
Chemical Hygiene Officer
Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety
Opinions are mine, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah
"One more anal-probing, gyro-pyro, levatating
eco-plasm, alien anti-matter story and I'm gonna
take my gun out and shoot somebody."
-Special Agent Fox Mulder
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:23:46 -0800
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Roberta Black <srblack@NIDC.EDU>
Subject: CHO Compensation Survey -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Dear Jim and NACHO--
I am a chem tech for community college in Northern Idaho. My duties are
are all the ordering, inventory control, lab prep and cleanup for four full
time instructors, 16-17 labs/wk. About 7 years ago, I was handed a
copy of the Federal Register Lab standard and told was a Chemical
Hygiene Officer and I was to have a Chemical Plan in writing (and
theoretically in place by (date). So much for in-service training, etc.
CHO was to be 20% of my "duties". I notieced in my last contract it had
sneaked up to 25%. My base salary is $29,040 on a 10-month contract,
224 FTE duty days, 1/2 time in the summer. I also teach night labs as time
and scheduling permits, for which I get extra compensation. It is
interesting that in the job analysis NIC had done last year, my position
was lowered a paygrade, although I was grandfathered in at my present
salary, at least for now.
My CHO duties include giving right-to-know presentations to the other
college personnel along with the campus health coordinator, who does a
Blood-Borne Pathogen discussion at the same time. I also RTK to
vocational classes as requested by instructors, and check out vocational
shops for unlabeled bottles, etc. about once a year. I coordinate with the
campus safety officers (The head of building maintenance and the head
of custodial, grounds and safety) on problems which I notice. I have 0
enforement authority. As for my chem dept duties, I am very proud of
the safety record in our labs, and the preparedness of our students to
enter upper division, university level chemistry classes. For that, I must
give some credit to our instructors, who give a good intro safety
presentation, and include safety in their prelab discussions. There is
also a "responsible person" in lab when students are present, either the
instructor, another natural sciences faculty in emergency or me.
Thank you for starting NACHO. I like it very much, as it and NAOSSM
listserv are main contacts with others who are doing what I am, and it's
nice not to have to reinvent all the wheels. As to getting to conventions,
etc., I can't even get to NAOSSM, which is about the best convention
ever invented. Thanks again.
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:47:48 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Dr. Linda A. Swihart" <swihart@PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At a major midwestern university whose name I will not mention, the
University's Chemical Hygiene Officer is the Vice President of Physical
Facilities. He does not inspect labs nor does he concern himself with any
of the immediate details of laboratory or chemical safety. Don't get me
wrong, he is extremely supportive and helpful in many ways, but if his CHO
hat is mentioned in his job description I'd be surprised, and I'd predict
that 99% of his job description involves running the enormous section of
the University we still call the Physical Plant: gounds, parking, custodial
services, police and fire, planning/construction, and facilities
maintenance for a student body of about 36,000, staff body of about 14,
000, in 144 principle buildings on about 2,600 acres of non-farm land....
There are advantages of having the CHO being a very highly placed
individual in a university. But it makes Jim Kauffman's question a tougher
one. Few people in the academic departments (besides me) have safety
responsibilities written into their job descriptions. I can easily say I
have CHO-type responsibilities and easily give a dollar figure. But I am
not my employer's CHO.
At 10:08 AM 3/23/98 -0600, you wrote:
>At 10:07 AM 3/23/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>The flaw might very well be in the fact that many people whose job
>>responsibilities include lab safety DO NOT have that responsibility
>>included in their job description. No mention, zilch, zippo.
>>
>
>Those that don't should reconsider and approach managment on getting it in
>their job description. As far as I can see, the CHO is one of the ONLY
>OSHA required positions to be filled by name, and published in the
>facility's Chemical Hygiene Plan. To not have it mentioned in the job
>description is either an oversight or a way some managers weasle out of
>recognizing the CHO as a vital safety professional.
>
>Harry
>
>
>
>Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO
>Chemical Hygiene Officer
>Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety
>Opinions are mine, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah
>
>"One more anal-probing, gyro-pyro, levatating
>eco-plasm, alien anti-matter story and I'm gonna
>take my gun out and shoot somebody."
> -Special Agent Fox Mulder
>
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:23:22 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: stefan <EHSADM5@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: CHO Discussion
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
I'm not sure where you wanted to go with this topic,Jim, but the difficulty
subscribers are having in responding deals with the fact that, few are hired
as "CHOs". Their responsibilities can include administrative functions (e.g.
budgetary, personnel reviews), research endeavors, as well as the regulatory.
To ask an EH & S person what % of his/her duties (and therefore his salary) is
CHO-related, does not incorporate the % of his/her duties as a hazardous waste
manager. On any given day the percentages change. I don't think any administr
ator would micromanage a position by specifying the percentage of each duty.
That would limit the necessary flexibility in the regulatory arena.
Centralized EH & S offices usually do not have the luxury of an overabundance
of staff. School districts are going to expect teachers to be the CHOs within
their labs- I do not foresee the Board of Ed creating a new position of CHO
for a town. Small colleges without centralized EH & S will expect professors
to be the CHO because, they will reason, lab safety is inherent in the job
specs.
So, to get an idea of the value of a CHO is to dealve into a rather large
gray area- I'm not sure what the benefit would be. Maybe you could clarify
this, before this thread gets too tangled.
(BTW- I started my own LABSAF-L list about a year ago just for UCONN research
staff and professors-I'm glad I left out the "E").
Stefan Wawzyniecki CIH NRCC-CHO
Chemical Health & Safety Manager
University of Connecticut
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:44:28 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Harry Elston <helston@FGI.NET>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:47 AM 3/23/98 -0500, you wrote:
>At a major midwestern university whose name I will not mention, the
>University's Chemical Hygiene Officer is the Vice President of Physical
>Facilities. He does not inspect labs nor does he concern himself with any
>of the immediate details of laboratory or chemical safety. Don't get me
>wrong, he is extremely supportive and helpful in many ways, but if his CHO
>hat is mentioned in his job description I'd be surprised, and I'd predict
>that 99% of his job description involves running the enormous section of
>the University we still call the Physical Plant: gounds, parking, custodial
>services, police and fire, planning/construction, and facilities
>maintenance for a student body of about 36,000, staff body of about 14,
>000, in 144 principle buildings on about 2,600 acres of non-farm land....
>
>There are advantages of having the CHO being a very highly placed
>individual in a university. But it makes Jim Kauffman's question a tougher
>one. Few people in the academic departments (besides me) have safety
>responsibilities written into their job descriptions. I can easily say I
>have CHO-type responsibilities and easily give a dollar figure. But I am
>not my employer's CHO.
>
There are also some major disadvantages of having a CHO so far removed from
the "front lines." One that I can think of right off the bat is that when
the the "bubble goes up" (ie. a serious incident involving injuries or
death) one of the first questions which will be asked is, "Who is the CHO?"
and "what did HE do to prevent or mitigate this incident?" If people
cannot supply the "right answers" then there will be compound problems.
Paranoid? No, I don't think so. Careful...always.
The Lab Standard does not say where the CHO is placed on the "org chart,"
however, it does say that the CHO must be a person who is qualified by
education or experience to provide technical guidance to develop and
implement the Chemical Hygiene Plan. In my opinion, an associate dean may
or may not fit the bill, especially if his only action in the development
or implementation of the CHP was/is, as Captain Picard would say, "Make it
so."
Some universities are now taking a very serious look at the CHO position, I
would presume because of the OSHA mandate. Some places are putting under
the IH's position but there are some problems with that as well, since many
IH's haven't had a significant amount of chemistry training. My
experiences with IH's have been such to say that they are trained to say
"no" to just about any chemical request involving "hazardous
chemicals,"
and this can sometimes lead to problems such as chemists doing the "end
around" the IH/CHO, which is NOT what we want to happen. I think that this
is more an isolated case than anything else though. (I don't want to have
the wrath of thousands of IH 's fill my "in box" with hate mail!)
In any event, all of this babble has not answered JK's question about
compensation. Sorry for droning on. :)
Harry
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:56:48 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Harry makes a lot of sense. IMHO, the intent of the Standard is to have a
chemist be the CHO, or at least someone trained in chemistry. The trend to fill
the position, especialy in the university, with other backrounds seems to be not
only dangerous but violates the spirit of the Standard.
I'd not have a lot of confidence in a CHO who never worked in the lab.
In our case, I mostly work in chemistry and also serve as the CHO.
Harry Elston wrote:
> At 11:47 AM 3/23/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >At a major midwestern university whose name I will not mention, the
> >University's Chemical Hygiene Officer is the Vice President of Physical
> >Facilities. He does not inspect labs nor does he concern himself with any
> >of the immediate details of laboratory or chemical safety. Don't get me
> >wrong, he is extremely supportive and helpful in many ways, but if his CHO
> >hat is mentioned in his job description I'd be surprised, and I'd predict
> >that 99% of his job description involves running the enormous section of
> >the University we still call the Physical Plant: gounds, parking, custodial
> >services, police and fire, planning/construction, and facilities
> >maintenance for a student body of about 36,000, staff body of about 14,
> >000, in 144 principle buildings on about 2,600 acres of non-farm land....
> >
> >There are advantages of having the CHO being a very highly placed
> >individual in a university. But it makes Jim Kauffman's question a tougher
> >one. Few people in the academic departments (besides me) have safety
> >responsibilities written into their job descriptions. I can easily say I
> >have CHO-type responsibilities and easily give a dollar figure. But I am
> >not my employer's CHO.
> >
>
> There are also some major disadvantages of having a CHO so far removed from
> the "front lines." One that I can think of right off the bat is that when
> the the "bubble goes up" (ie. a serious incident involving injuries or
> death) one of the first questions which will be asked is, "Who is the CHO?"
> and "what did HE do to prevent or mitigate this incident?" If people
> cannot supply the "right answers" then there will be compound problems.
> Paranoid? No, I don't think so. Careful...always.
>
> The Lab Standard does not say where the CHO is placed on the "org chart,"
> however, it does say that the CHO must be a person who is qualified by
> education or experience to provide technical guidance to develop and
> implement the Chemical Hygiene Plan. In my opinion, an associate dean may
> or may not fit the bill, especially if his only action in the development
> or implementation of the CHP was/is, as Captain Picard would say, "Make it
> so."
>
> Some universities are now taking a very serious look at the CHO position, I
> would presume because of the OSHA mandate. Some places are putting under
> the IH's position but there are some problems with that as well, since many
> IH's haven't had a significant amount of chemistry training. My
> experiences with IH's have been such to say that they are trained to say
> "no" to just about any chemical request involving "hazardous
chemicals,"
> and this can sometimes lead to problems such as chemists doing the "end
> around" the IH/CHO, which is NOT what we want to happen. I think that this
> is more an isolated case than anything else though. (I don't want to have
> the wrath of thousands of IH 's fill my "in box" with hate mail!)
>
> In any event, all of this babble has not answered JK's question about
> compensation. Sorry for droning on. :)
>
> Harry
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:27:06 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Sutherland-ENV, Lara" <Lara.Sutherland@STATE.MA.US>
Subject: research labs and pollution prevention
Hi,
My office is putting on a conference in October on Pollution Prevention for
Medical Facilities, focusing on how medical facilities can minimize waste in
general and hazardous waste in particular. I am in charge of setting up the
laboratory session, covering both research and clinical labs. I would love
to have information/speakers on non-radioactive tracing methods for research,
using less toxic stains/less stain in histology, solvent recycling, and on
how to get PI's interested/trained in Pollution Prevention. Do any of you
work in medical research labs? If you know someone who does please pass this
on to them. Any ideas/suggestions for information sources/speakers would be
appreciated.
We have issued a call for papers, and papers will be selected either for
presentation or just for publication in the proceedings. The call for papers
can be viewed at www.magnet.state.ma.us/ota/events.htm
Lara Sutherland
Office of Technical Assistance for Toxics Use Reduction
Massachusetts Executive Office of Environmental Affairs
100 Cambridge Street, Suite 2109
Boston, Massachusetts 02202
phone: 617-727-3260 x696
fax: 617-727-3827
www.magnet.state.ma.us/ota/
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:43:53 -0700
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Jeffery M Erickson <ERI@INEL.GOV>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Jim, I was hired as and funded as a full time Industrial Hygienist (IH).
When I inherited (was assigned) the CHO responsibilities several years ago,
it was an add on to my current duties. There was no additional payment or
compensation. However, there was some overlap between the duties and
responsibilities I had at the time and that of the CHO position.
Jeff Erickson, IHIT
LMITCO
P.O. Box 1625
Idaho Fall, Idaho
Labsafe@AOL.COM on 03/20/98 07:52:57 PM
Please respond to LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
cc: (bcc: Jeffery M Erickson/ERI/LMITCO/INEEL/US)
Subject: CHO Compensation Survey
To: NACHO Members
From: Jim Kaufman
I would like to conduct a CHO Compensation Survey.
Please send the information either publically to the
list or privately to labsafe@aol.com. I'll compile the
results and post them to LABSAFETY-L.
Please indicate if there is no payment or compensation.
Do you get release time (how much)?
I think we will all find this very interesting and a valuable
measure of our profession.
Please suggest other questions that should be asked as
part of this survey.
Thanks... jak
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:23:42 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: LS&EM '98 Posting
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
NACHO Members,
I received the following message dated 98-03-23 11:04:26 EST
from LS&EM.... jak
LS&EM '98 - June 22-25, 1998
Sheraton Imperial Hotel and Convention Center
Research Triangle Park, North Carolina
Just a reminder that the registration brochure for Laboratory Safety &
Environmental Management - The Conference '98 (LS&EM '98) is NOW AVAILABLE.
This year we will not be sending a mass mailing of the brochure, so if you
haven't already received your personal copy, email Sherry at PRIZIMnet@aol.com
with your complete snail address and telephone number immediately!
We hope to see you all this June in RTP!
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and saf
ty an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:23:46 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Talk by Dr. Blais
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
NACHO members,
I received the following message from Eileen Segal.....
<< Jim:
FYI: Dr. Blais is going to make just a short presentation to CCS (~10 min). I
would rather have you urge the CHO officers to hear him on Tuesday morning at
9:30 at the DivCHAS program symposium at Convention Center, Room A210/211,
Level 2. He's an invited speaker and I'd like him to have a good-size audience
for his efforts.
Thanks for any publicity you can create. Eileen >>
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:23:45 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: What is a Chemical Hygiene Officer (CHO)?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-23 09:55:13 EST, Jon Rossillon wrote:
<< I subscribed to the list to enhance my understanding of the lab
safety area; my initial question is "What is a CHO?" >>
JAK: Great Question. It will be interesting to see what others have to
say about this. I'll start with a definition.
A chemical hygiene officer is a person who is capable either by training
or experience in assisting his or her employer in developing and
implementing a written chemical hygiene plan.
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:49:14 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: cho
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Seeing all the safety professionals and stuff in this group, I'm curious
how many of us have chemistry training? And, as long as I'm making
trouble, how many have ever worked in a laboratory?
I do- have a chemistry degree and hae woeked in the lab or the plant for
over 30 years. How about the rest of you?
Bob
--
Bob Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corp.
201 Struble Road
State College, PA
phone 8142319214
fax 8142381567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:11:04 -0800
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Teresa Robertson <Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Organization: CSU Bakersfield
Subject: Re: cho
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU,.internet writes:
>Seeing all the safety professionals and stuff in this group, I'm curious
>how many of us have chemistry training? And, as long as I'm making
>trouble, how many have ever worked in a laboratory?
>I do- have a chemistry degree and hae woeked in the lab or the plant for
>over 30 years. How about the rest of you?
>Bob
>--
>Bob Burns
>Group Leader, R&D
>Ruetgers-Nease Corp.
>201 Struble Road
>State College, PA
>phone 8142319214
>fax 8142381567
>email rburns@bigfoot.com
Chemistry degree - went out into the world and worked for a chemical
company that made emulsion breakers, corrosion inhibitors, scale
inhibitors, biocides, etc. for companies producing petroleum crude.
After a few years, switched from the #2 business in this state to the
#1 business (agriculture), working in wine production, quality control,
from the crush to the finished product. Next on to a few years with a
state certified testing lab, followed by a few more years with another
petroleum-producer supplier, but this time we also had a line of
products for refineries. Now, full circle, I am the first CHO at the
university where I earned my degree.
I can't imagine doing this job without the degree and experience. I
still learn new things every day. Most of you must feel that way also,
or we would not have NACHO.
Teresa R. Robertson, CCHO
California State University, Bakersfield
>X-SMTP-From: owner-labsafety-l@SIU.EDU
>X-SMTP-To: Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU
>Received: from saluki-mail.siu.edu (saluki-mail.siu.edu
>[131.230.252.17]) by bak_compserv6.csubak.edu with SMTP id MSGTTTQE;
>Tue, 24 Mar 1998 02:02:16 GMT
>Received: from saluki-mail.siu.edu (saluki-mail.siu.edu
>[131.230.252.17]) by saluki-mail.siu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with
>ESMTP id TAA48558; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:47:04 -0600 (CST)
>Received: from SIU.EDU by SIU.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8c) with
>spool id 940625 for LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:47:04 -0600
>Received: from csrlink.net (schroeder.csrlink.net [209.173.80.1]) by
>saluki-mail.siu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id TAA63376 for
><LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:47:02 -0600 (CST)
>Received: from bigfoot.com (pm3lh1-40.csrlink.net [209.173.85.41]) by
>csrlink.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA21539 for
><LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:49:02 -0500 (EST)
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Message-ID: <35171119.D3453332@bigfoot.com>
>Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:49:14 -0500
>Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
>Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
>From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
>Subject: cho
>To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:08:18 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CHO Discussion
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-23 13:01:53 EST, Stefan W. wrote:
<< So, to get an idea of the value of a CHO is to dealve into a rather large
gray area- I'm not sure what the benefit would be. Maybe you could clarify
this, before this thread gets too tangled. >>
JAK: I've been surprised by the number of folks who were thrown off
by the issue of % of time. I had assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that
most folks who had CHO responsibility (from 1-100% of their time)
could, without too much difficulty, give a one significant figure average
of roughly the correct % (admitting that it varies all over the lot from
day to day).
So, you could say to yourself "my gut feel (at Dow, they called it
a SWAG) is that the average is about 10 or 25 or 33 or whatever
without batting a proverbial disclaimer. We're not looking for any
decimal places here.
My apologies if the request was sufficiently vague as to make it
more difficult than necessary.
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:25:02 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: cho
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-23 21:17:03 EST, Teresa Robertson wrote:
<< I still learn new things every day. Most of you must feel that way
also, or we would not have NACHO. >>
JAK: What kinds of learning experiences would be most valueable
for CHO's and folks interested in lab safety/CHO/CHP issue? And,
how can NACHO help provide it?
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 23:07:30 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Neal Langerman <chemsaf@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: cho
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:49 PM 3/23/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Seeing all the safety professionals and stuff in this group, I'm curious
>how many of us have chemistry training? And, as long as I'm making
>trouble, how many have ever worked in a laboratory?
>
>I do- have a chemistry degree and hae woeked in the lab or the plant for
>over 30 years. How about the rest of you?
>
I do - Ph.D. in Physical Chem from Northwestern 15 years running my own
research program and 16 years as a consultant.
Neal
>Bob
>
>--
>
>Bob Burns
>Group Leader, R&D
>Ruetgers-Nease Corp.
>201 Struble Road
>State College, PA
>phone 8142319214
>fax 8142381567
>email rburns@bigfoot.com
>
>
*********************************************
NEAL LANGERMAN
ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY
8909 C Complex Drive
San Diego, CA 92123-1002
619-874-5577
619-874-8239 (FAX)
chemsaf@ix.netcom.com
NEW and REVISED!
Visit our Home Page:
http://www.chemical-safety.com
The Source for the prevention of injury, illness
and environmental insult!
*********************************************
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 07:04:23 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Accident on Maui
Comments: To: Safety <SAFETY@UVMVM.UVM.EDU>,
nsela-l@science.coe.uwf.edu, dchas-l@SIU.EDU,
chemlab_L@vax1.bemidji.msus.edu, chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu,
CHEMCOM@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU, APCHEM-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Lahainaluna chemistry lab cited for violations
By CHRISTIE WILSON, City Editor
LAHAINA -- Lahainaluna High School just last month was cited for serious
safety violations in its chemistry lab, where a 16-year-old student was
injured Wednesday in a small explosion.
Michael Doran Jr., 16, suffered severe damage to the corneas in both eyes
caused by an explosive flash and exposure to chemicals. He underwent surgery
on both corneas at Aloha Eye Center in Kahului and was in Honolulu today to
see a specialist. According to his father, Michael Doran, the teen-ager has
only ``slight vision'' and may require corneal transplants.
The student said he had found a ``recipe'' on the Internet for mixing ammonium
hydroxide and iodine crystals to create nitrogen tri-iodide. His father said
the boy did not realize just how dangerous the chemical combination is and
thought is was a substance similar to what is used in paper poppers sold in
stores and used by children to celebrate New Year's Eve and other holidays.
According to his father, the teen-ager was preparing for a live demonstration
and had gone into the lab at about 1 p.m. to check on his experiment when the
explosion occurred. He was not wearing eye goggles or other protective wear.
``There are absolutely no safety precautions in that chemistry lab. No
mandatory eye protection or mandatory respiratory protection,'' Doran said.
He also said the chemistry teacher at the school is actually a math teacher
who was moved to the lab when the previous chemistry teacher left last year.
Lahainaluna Vice Principal Lee Ann DeLima said Thursday the man is a certified
teacher who ``was teaching the class he was assigned to.'' She would not
comment further.
Lahainaluna Principal Michael Nakano has been at meetings and was unavailable
to comment. Maui District Superintendent Ralph Murakami was on Oahu Thursday
for a literacy conference and said this morning he was waiting for an update
on the Lahainaluna incident.
``There are procedures that teachers need to follow relative to safety and the
school is looking into that,'' he said.
Representatives from the state Department of Health's Hazard Evaluation and
Emergency Response Office and contractor Pacific Environmental Corp. visited
the Lahainaluna chemistry lab Thursday. Health Department spokesman Patrick
Johnston said they found ``the extent of contamination fairly limited to the
one area where the boy was working.'' He said the area has been cleaned up but
the lab will remain secured over the weekend to allow it to air out and for
any chemical residue to dissipate. The lab should be ready for students next
week.
Capt. Leonard Niemczyk, deputy fire marshal for the Maui County Department of
Fire Control, said Lahainaluna was cited for unsafe storage of chemicals in
its chemistry lab after a Feb. 18 fire inspection.
He said the report showed incompatible chemicals stored together in a cabinet
that was in disarray.
Niemczyk said there have been problems with storage in other school chemistry
labs, but ``this was the first one I had seen that had anything this bad in
the chemistry lab.''
He said the fire department's hazardous materials officer met with Lahainaluna
science teachers Feb. 24 to explain safe storage of chemicals.
A follow-up inspection Feb. 27 showed many of the problems had been cleaned up
but noted a problem with storage of sodium hydroxide, a highly toxic material,
Niemczyk said. He said the chemical can react with water to cause an
explosion, depending on the amounts of chemical and water.
The parents of the injured student are disputing a school official's account
of the accident and say safety precautions in the lab are routinely ignored.
Vice Principal Patricia Maielua told The Maui News Thursday that the boy was
not supposed to be in the chemistry lab, which was occupied by a teacher
working with other students.
But Michael Doran said his son, who is taking a chemistry class, got
permission from the teacher to check on his experiment, which had been sitting
under a drying hood for nearly two weeks.
Doran says it's ridiculous to say the experiment was not sanctioned by the
teacher because chemicals are supposed to be locked up and Michael would've
had to obtain the materials from his teacher. Also, the nitrogen tri-iodide
crystals had been left in the room for days during the course of the
experiment.
``The teacher knew he was working on an experiment for extra credit and was
aware he was in the room,'' Doran said.
Doran said the explosion happened as Michael was taking the chemical mixture
out from underneath the drying hood. The mixture probably ignited when the
crystals were jostled on the tray, according to Doran, who said he gained
knowledge of light explosives while serving in the Marine Corps.
Doran said his son, who was described by DeLima as ``a very bright young
boy,'' has a keen interest in computers and the Internet. He is something of a
computer troubleshooter on campus and helped classrooms go online on the
Internet.
``Even if he did get the recipe off the Internet, the teacher should have
known'' the potential danger of the substances, Doran said.
As far as his son's prognosis goes, Doran said ``at worst, we have to do
corneal transplants; at best, extensive treatment and more surgery. Hopefully
when he gets through this whole ordeal there will be no damage.
``We're hoping for an improvement throughout the course of treatment.''
His son also suffered respiratory problems from inhaling the chemicals, and it
is uncertain whether he sustained damage to his lungs.
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:09:28 +0000
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Andrew Szilagyi <Andrew.Szilagyi@EM.DOE.GOV>
Subject: Re[2]: What is a Chemical Hygiene Officer (CHO)?
JAK: Although I have never been a "Chemical Hygiene Officer", I have
been both a "Site Safety Officer" (per 29CFR1910.120 language) and a
corporate director for health and safety programs in both the private
sector and in government.
The question which has always come up - with no definitive resolution
is "Who is responsible for implementation" (as used in your
definition. One school of thought is that since a CHO or SSO is
generally a "corporate" support function, they cannot implement
anything, and that only the "line organization" can implement the
policies,procedures, etc., that CHOs develop and document in a
chemical safety plan, or similar document.
A second and less popular school of thought is that indeed, even
though it is recognized as a support function, the CHO is responsible
for implementation.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: What is a Chemical Hygiene Officer (CHO)?
Author: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU at INTERNET
Date: 3/23/98 8:23 PM
In a message dated 98-03-23 09:55:13 EST, Jon Rossillon wrote:
<< I subscribed to the list to enhance my understanding of the lab
safety area; my initial question is "What is a CHO?" >>
JAK: Great Question. It will be interesting to see what others have to
say about this. I'll start with a definition.
A chemical hygiene officer is a person who is capable either by training
or experience in assisting his or her employer in developing and
implementing a written chemical hygiene plan.
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 12:22:18 +0000
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Andrew Szilagyi <Andrew.Szilagyi@EM.DOE.GOV>
Subject: Re: cho
"hae woeked"?
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: cho
Author: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU at INTERNET
Date: 3/23/98 8:49 PM
Seeing all the safety professionals and stuff in this group, I'm curious
how many of us have chemistry training? And, as long as I'm making
trouble, how many have ever worked in a laboratory?
I do- have a chemistry degree and hae woeked in the lab or the plant for
over 30 years. How about the rest of you?
Bob
--
Bob Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corp.
201 Struble Road
State College, PA
phone 8142319214
fax 8142381567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 07:37:52 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: What is a Chemical Hygiene Officer (CHO)?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-24 07:10:28 EST, Andrew S. wrote:
<< The question which has always come up - with no definitive resolution
is "Who is responsible for implementation" (as used in your
definition. One school of thought is that since a CHO or SSO is
generally a "corporate" support function, they cannot implement
anything, and that only the "line organization" can implement the
policies,procedures, etc., that CHOs develop and document in a
chemical safety plan, or similar document.
A second and less popular school of thought is that indeed, even
though it is recognized as a support function, the CHO is responsible
for implementation. >>
JAK: Yes, the question does come up. And the debate and discussion
may well go on long after were gone.
It should be noted that ......
One of the characteristic of organizations that are "excellent" in
the health and safety area is that "management is responsible for the
prevention of accidents and injuries and damage to health and the
environment."
My feeling is that ....
This stuff is not that complicated. At some point you have to decide
what's important and how you want to spend your time. That's what
this really comes down to in the final analysis. It's just a matter of
priorities. Period.
Others might well feel differently.
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:03:11 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: Re: cho
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
My biggest question is how to motivate people (including myself- this NACHO is
helping!) to follow the CHP.
Labsafe wrote:
> In a message dated 98-03-23 21:17:03 EST, Teresa Robertson wrote:
>
> << I still learn new things every day. Most of you must feel that way
> also, or we would not have NACHO. >>
>
> JAK: What kinds of learning experiences would be most valueable
> for CHO's and folks interested in lab safety/CHO/CHP issue? And,
> how can NACHO help provide it?
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
> **********************************************************************
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:03:04 +0000
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Andrew Szilagyi <Andrew.Szilagyi@EM.DOE.GOV>
Subject: Re[4]: What is a Chemical Hygiene Officer (CHO)?
JAK:
I really enjoy our philosophical fencing - unfortunately, at least in
my non-lab setting experience it is not that simple. Organizational
entities, assigned roles and responsibilities, the shrinking and
decentralization of "health and safety" organizations and staff, and
other factors frequently mandate the direction; rather than
"priorities and what's right". As an example, in one consulting firm
I worked as the corporate h&s director, my role was to establish
policy, document requirements, procedures, etc, and verify (audit)
implementation BY THE LINE. I was not only "prohibited" from
"implementing" but by virtue of my location at corporate headquarters
it was not really feasible for me to "implement" at 25 or so regional
locations.
POINT-COUNTER POINT??
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: What is a Chemical Hygiene Officer (CHO)?
Author: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU at INTERNET
Date: 3/24/98 7:37 AM
In a message dated 98-03-24 07:10:28 EST, Andrew S. wrote:
<< The question which has always come up - with no definitive resolution
is "Who is responsible for implementation" (as used in your
definition. One school of thought is that since a CHO or SSO is
generally a "corporate" support function, they cannot implement
anything, and that only the "line organization" can implement the
policies,procedures, etc., that CHOs develop and document in a
chemical safety plan, or similar document.
A second and less popular school of thought is that indeed, even
though it is recognized as a support function, the CHO is responsible
for implementation. >>
JAK: Yes, the question does come up. And the debate and discussion
may well go on long after were gone.
It should be noted that ......
One of the characteristic of organizations that are "excellent" in
the health and safety area is that "management is responsible for the
prevention of accidents and injuries and damage to health and the
environment."
My feeling is that ....
This stuff is not that complicated. At some point you have to decide
what's important and how you want to spend your time. That's what
this really comes down to in the final analysis. It's just a matter of
priorities. Period.
Others might well feel differently.
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:09:45 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: Re: What is a Chemical Hygiene Officer (CHO)?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Our philosphy is that the CHO is a staff adviser. Safety is a line resposibility.
I am responsible for my group- advise the others. I think it would be a mistake to
do it any other way. I'd like safety to appear on the annual review for
supervisers, but haven't got it done yet.
Andrew Szilagyi wrote:
> JAK: Although I have never been a "Chemical Hygiene Officer", I have
> been both a "Site Safety Officer" (per 29CFR1910.120 language) and a
> corporate director for health and safety programs in both the private
> sector and in government.
>
> The question which has always come up - with no definitive resolution
> is "Who is responsible for implementation" (as used in your
> definition. One school of thought is that since a CHO or SSO is
> generally a "corporate" support function, they cannot implement
> anything, and that only the "line organization" can implement the
> policies,procedures, etc., that CHOs develop and document in a
> chemical safety plan, or similar document.
>
> A second and less popular school of thought is that indeed, even
> though it is recognized as a support function, the CHO is responsible
> for implementation.
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
> Subject: Re: What is a Chemical Hygiene Officer (CHO)?
> Author: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU at INTERNET
> Date: 3/23/98 8:23 PM
>
> In a message dated 98-03-23 09:55:13 EST, Jon Rossillon wrote:
>
> << I subscribed to the list to enhance my understanding of the lab
> safety area; my initial question is "What is a CHO?" >>
>
> JAK: Great Question. It will be interesting to see what others have to
> say about this. I'll start with a definition.
>
> A chemical hygiene officer is a person who is capable either by training
> or experience in assisting his or her employer in developing and
> implementing a written chemical hygiene plan.
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
> **********************************************************************
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:36:04 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Dr. Linda A. Swihart" <swihart@PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: cho
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:49 PM 3/23/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Seeing all the safety professionals and stuff in this group, I'm curious
>how many of us have chemistry training? And, as long as I'm making
>trouble, how many have ever worked in a laboratory?
>
>I do- have a chemistry degree and hae woeked in the lab or the plant for
>over 30 years. How about the rest of you?
Chemistry BS 1977, high school chemistry (and physics) teacher, organic
chemistry Ph.D. 1989 (5 years lab reactions on a scale no longer seen, i.e.
whole GRAMS of product), followed immediately by 4.5 years university
hazardous waste job for EH&S, then 4 years in same EH&S with "IH" title,
overall (all campus) CHP implementation assistance responsibilities.
For the past 8 months I work 48% for EH&S (campus wide CHP implementation
assistance and training, lab ventilation, hoods and laminar flow cabinetry
certification programs) and 52% of my time is paid for by our Chemistry
department (faculty 50, grad staff about 250, almost all headed for PhDs,
postdocs approx 25 -- maybe 90% of these people are chemical users and 10%
computer/theoret) completely for the purpose of safety training,
inspecting, nagging, and problem solving.
I have forgotten far more chemistry than most IHs ever learn. (Sadly, but
the old use it or lose it is amazingly true), but I retain very good
library skills. I have never "worked in a lab" in the sense of my *regular
job* being that of a chemist. Grad school research and the university
setting are quite a bit different than that. In major universities, most
graduate research staff are paid for teaching, and do their research "on
their own time." (That's actually the way it was put to me as a question,
incredulously, by someone quite unfamiliar with the concept.
I relish learning what I can about workplace conditions and policies from
the few chemists who come to grad school from chemistry jobs rather than
straight out of college, or from postdocs who leave their industry jobs to
return to university postdoctoral or research associate positions.
And I learn quite a bit from reading the comments from all of you. Thanks
very much to Jim for starting this group. One of the concepts I've
discovered and been able to use to actually GET THROUGH to some of our
faculty and grad staff, is that we as an educational institution are not
preparing our PhD chemists for life in the chemistry workplace unless we
hammer home an awful lot about safety -- understanding of occupational and
environmental regulations as well as safe behaviors. With only the casual
attitudes and lack of understanding that seem to be often cultivated in the
academic research setting, they make a damn poor impression at their job
interviews and at their first new job.
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:03:01 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: stefan <EHSADM5@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Philosophical Musings
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
I think this NACHO forum is beneficial for bringing more attention to the
relatively new concept of a CHO, but what we need to realize is that what
works in industry may not work in academia, and what works at a University
may not work at a small liberal arts college, and how a hospital clinical lab
deals with the lab standard may differ from the private environmental lab.
To what level in an organization, or to what branch within an organization, a
CHO reports, may be secondary to the actual PERSON HE/SHE REPORTS TO.
I believe CHOs/EHS staff should report to a high level administrator, be that
a Financial Officer (who may pay the fine), or a V.P. But if that person is
not sold on the importance of safety, then the program will never get the
support it needs.
Using the CIH example, to define a professional group may turn into a legal
black hole. That's why states are considering Licensure - is the need for
a "licensed CHO" appealing? Who wants to challenge the OSHA definition of a
CHO, based on qualifications through training or experience? Not I.
There you have my philosophical ramblings- I would rather see this group remain
informal, not hung up on salaries, or whether a PhD with 5 years academic
experience is a better CHO than a BS chem major CIH with 25 years experience.
Keep up the banter. I need the occasional literary relief from my regulatory
tasks, including addressing that Mother of all Dreads, a Consent Order.
Stefan Wawzyniecki, CIH, NRCC-CHO
Chemical Health & Safety Manager
University of Connecticut
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 07:43:45 -0700
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Sonja G. Ringen" <Ringen@UWYO.EDU>
Subject: Re: cho
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
I, too, have a degree in chemistry and worked in analytical labs for 15
years. That gave me the chance to see just about every type of accident
possible--and experience many of them myself.
It has been extremely valuable to me in my job as chemical safety
coordinator at a university. My 'war' stories grant me some authority
and encourage others to share theirs.
Of course, now my perspective is much broader--all safety and
environmental compliance for this university. The chemistry degree
gives me the basis for much of what I do, but I can feel the lack of
formal training when I have to deal with engineering, accounting or
biological issues.
Sonja Ringen, Manager
Environmental Health and Safety
University of Wyoming
Laramie, WY 82071
ringen@uwyo.edu
>----------
>From: Bob Burns[SMTP:rburns@BIGFOOT.COM]
>Sent: Monday, March 23, 1998 6:49 PM
>To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
>Subject: cho
>
>Seeing all the safety professionals and stuff in this group, I'm curious
>how many of us have chemistry training? And, as long as I'm making
>trouble, how many have ever worked in a laboratory?
>
>I do- have a chemistry degree and hae woeked in the lab or the plant for
>over 30 years. How about the rest of you?
>
>Bob
>
>--
>
>Bob Burns
>Group Leader, R&D
>Ruetgers-Nease Corp.
>201 Struble Road
>State College, PA
>phone 8142319214
>fax 8142381567
>email rburns@bigfoot.com
>
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:14:43 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Madelyn Miller <mmiller@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: cho
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Greetings Bob et al,
I have a degree in biology but went to work for the College of William
and Mary and ran their teaching labs for eleven years doing bucket
chemistry for the masses. I have a great deal of "hands on" experience.
I found the chemists (there) were interested in what the chemicals did
to each other and had no awareness of what the chemicals were doing to
the students. I became interested in chemical safety in 1980 when the
first Prudent Practices came out and then had the pleasure of attending
a J. T. Baker seminar on laboratory safety taught by Jay Young.
----------------------
Madelyn Miller
Chemical Safety Specialist (certified)
Environmental Health & Safety
Carnegie Mellon University
mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:17:40 -0800
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Roberta Black <srblack@NIDC.EDU>
Subject: Re: cho -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Put model forms online (website?), ie: RTK-compliance, etc
Accidents and incidents to prod the safety non-conformers
Changes in the lab standard
Meetings & seminars, even if we can't come. MAybe some highlights
and gossip from same.
Keep the open forum for problems, solutions--This is the unique service
of the listserv.
The "how much do you make, what do you REALLY do" lets us know
most administrators are as in the dark about CHOs as those of us who
were handed the hat. Also finding out that someone else has survived
to the point that the system works may help us through.
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:20:33 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Harry Elston <helston@FGI.NET>
Subject: Re: cho
Comments: To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:03 AM 3/24/98 -0500, Bob Burns wrote:
>My biggest question is how to motivate people (including myself- this
NACHO is
>helping!) to follow the CHP.
>
I've found that the best way to motivate people is to convincve them that
the CHP is the right thing to do. Of course, that means that you have
built a safety consensus while developing the CHP and didn't just make a
bunch of innane rules or a flimsy, "go and be safe" document.
There are ALWAYS going to be people that will do as the well please, and I
have found that the worst people to give safety training to are those with
three letters after their name, "Ph.D.", because by definition, they most
know everything, or at least they are convinced that they do, or "it has
never happened to them, so it never will." I think that the death of
Wetterhahn at Dartmouth, though indeed unfortunate and tragic, has served
as a excellent training example when dealing with the attitude, since it
DID happen to someone. Still, some just won't change and no matter how
much you try, you're just interferring with "research" or "science,"
and
those with tenure might ignore you with impunity. As a CHO, this is one of
the things that we must face, and just hope for an early retirement so when
the committee replaces these people, you can get one that is more
open-minded to safety training. Document all of your attempts, of course.
So far, I have been lucky in this respect, most people I deal with listen
to good ideas and I really work hard at building a consensus about safety.
An idea for those at smaller colleges where things are more easily changed
is to develop a course in laboratory safety instead of just trying to cover
it during regular lab time. Students can be introduced to OSHA standards
in more detail, topics can be covered in depth such as compressed gas
hazards, electrical safety or a mirad of other topics. I am working on a 2
semester hour course in lab safety just for fun, and so far I have ample
information. The benefit of a program such as this is widespread, from
graduate schools to industry. Larger universities would also benefit from
such a program, but it has been my experience that status quo is sometimes
harder to change at a larger institution.
Time for me to get back to work!
Harry
Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO
Chemical Hygiene Officer
Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety
Opinions are mine, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah
"You won't find this on 'Beakman's World.'"
-Special Agent Fox Mulder
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:34:41 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: query
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Ok, all you CHOs- here's a real-world question for you. (Those of you
at the pre exam sessins in Vegas may remember I brought it up there
too.)
What does one do with a pregnant female?
Ban from lab? Ignore? What?
Our policy is to ban and provide other work at the same rate of pay. It
happens a lot here, so it's an issue.
Bob
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:47:45 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: dennis mathiason <mathias@MHD1.MOORHEAD.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Training for CHO Discussion
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I think Bob Burns has raised the first of a number of relevant questions
concerning the training and education of CHO's. And LAST ---- relevant
experience! I have witnessed PhD chemists (with 20 years of lab experience
and also capable of quoting the LAB SAFETY BIBLE) freeze when an accident
occured. Last year I was with a group of 30-35 individuals, many with years
of "chemical experiences", in a Hazmat course. As part of the course we
donned SCBA eqpt and then entered a controlled confined space environment
to see if we could maneuver through a series of traps, narrow passageways;
rescue three teddy bears, and emerge from the pitch dark environment before
we ran out of air. Even before we entered, beads of perspiration appeared
on a significant number of the elgible participants. Seven never made it.
There were many reasons why people backed out. In another exercise a group
was asked to clean up an aluminum chloride hydrate powder spill. MSDS
sheets were procured. Over 1/2 of the group used an MSDS for aluminum
chloride (anhydrous). They failed to recognize the difference between a
hydrate and an anhydrous salt. Note: I am not suggesting that you have
training in every imaginable situation. However, reliable support is
essential.
One of the unfortunate aspects of our safety education system is that we
have failed to provide really appropriate education and required
individuals to gain some "hands on" experience. Witness the discussion of
the last week. Liquid nitrogen, nitrogen triiodide ( actually it is a
crystalline bifurcated lattice of ammonia and nitrogen triiodide), and
cyanide salts. There were some good ideas of the real danger as a function
of mass or concentration, duration of exposure, and personal
observations--- and others not as well informed. Unfortunately, for all of
us, experience at times comes too late. As an example, after having used
nitrogen triiodide in chem shows for approximately 15 years I thought I was
an experienced veteran. Imagine my surprise when a grad student brought in
a jar containing approximately 1/2 kg of wet nitrogen triiodide. While it
was potentially very dangerous; it was safely handled. The student had
handled this compound for many years in his high school chem lab. He had
never calculated the energy that might be released! This student also had a
permanent reminder as to why you don't make rocket fuel by mulling dry Zn,
S powder.
There are potentially many benefits of discussion groups. Years ago I
gained most of my experience and knowledge working with older chemists.
Today lab chemists with wet lab experience are a fast disappearing group.
Improvements in instrumental technology, and instructional changes have
contributed to much of this situation. Qual Analysis was a real learning
experience! Remember aitch-tu-ess ? That wonderful generator that produced
Group II cation determinations? (sulfide chemistry) Today most students
have only a vague idea of what hydrogen sulfide is. When was the last time
you experienced the infamous rotten egg?
So what can an internet discussion group do? 1. Share experiences 2.
Identify support groups 3. Offer problem solving exercises. 4. Cooperate in
developing educational materials. Networking is essential!
Internet discussion is not easy especially when we are faceless for the
most part. On the other hand getting to all of the regional and national
meetings is virtually impossible. Which do I go to this year? ACS-CHAS?
LSEM? UNIVERSITY HAZ WASTE? PITTCON? etc. etc. Tough choices on a limited
budget.
Being a CHO is going to be an increasingly difficult task if the CHO is
going to rely only on MSDS data and official docs. You need a lot of
support to be successful. Last it would be great if more academic
institutions would truly support CHO's. CHEERS
s
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:11:10 -0700
Reply-To: terrie@cc.usu.edu
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Terrie Wierenga <terrie@CC.USU.EDU>
Organization: USDA-ARS PPRL
Subject: pregnancy & labwork
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Bob:
If I understood your message correctly, you automatically ban any
pregnant woman from working in the lab. That sounds a bit extreme to me.
Our policy is to look at what the woman is working with, what exposures
she is likely to have, and go from there. Perhaps move bench work to a
hood to further reduce any possibility of exposure. Many lab procedures
pose no more risk to the fetus and the mother than would be present
walking down a city street (and probably less in some locations!). Some
of the plant toxins we work with are potent teratogens; others have
phytoestrogenic activity. At those times, someone else would weigh out
the plant material or alkaloid. But to ban a woman from research in the
lab just because she's pregnant (and for no other proven reason such as
chemical exposure) is wrong.
And then you get into the situation of whether or not she's a declared
pregnant worker (invasion of privacy, etc.).
My 2 cents worth--
Terrie
All opinions are my own and not those of USDA, etc.
--
****
Terrie Wierenga
USDA-ARS Poisonous Plant Research Lab, Logan, Utah
v: (435) 752-2941 f: (435) 753-5681
e: terrie@cc.usu.edu
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 12:02:33 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: HALN2SSS <HALN2SSS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
I am the science chairman and receive no salary or release time as CHO
although i will say that the position does not take up a great deal of my
time. The joys of a veteran staff and good facilities planning.
Hal Grunenwald
Chittenango HS
Chittenango NY
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 12:57:00 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: Re: pregnancy & labwork
Comments: To: terrie@cc.usu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks for the input. Have you considered the liability issue?
I understand there are teratogens everywhere- but I think we have a
responsibility to prevent exposure in areas under our control. I think you
have to assume the possibility of chemical exposure, and the risks far
outweigh the other considerations.
I wouldn't want my daughters to wotrk in lab if they were pregnant. How
about you?
Bob
Terrie Wierenga wrote:
> Bob:
>
> If I understood your message correctly, you automatically ban any
> pregnant woman from working in the lab. That sounds a bit extreme to me.
> Our policy is to look at what the woman is working with, what exposures
> she is likely to have, and go from there. Perhaps move bench work to a
> hood to further reduce any possibility of exposure. Many lab procedures
> pose no more risk to the fetus and the mother than would be present
> walking down a city street (and probably less in some locations!). Some
> of the plant toxins we work with are potent teratogens; others have
> phytoestrogenic activity. At those times, someone else would weigh out
> the plant material or alkaloid. But to ban a woman from research in the
> lab just because she's pregnant (and for no other proven reason such as
> chemical exposure) is wrong.
>
> And then you get into the situation of whether or not she's a declared
> pregnant worker (invasion of privacy, etc.).
>
> My 2 cents worth--
> Terrie
>
> All opinions are my own and not those of USDA, etc.
> --
> ****
> Terrie Wierenga
> USDA-ARS Poisonous Plant Research Lab, Logan, Utah
> v: (435) 752-2941 f: (435) 753-5681
> e: terrie@cc.usu.edu
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:01:15 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "DAVID L. PERRAM" <dlperram@MTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: cho
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have my degree in Chemistry and have been working in the lab or 15 years
now, I hope to continue for another 15.
At 08:49 PM 3/23/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Seeing all the safety professionals and stuff in this group, I'm curious
>how many of us have chemistry training? And, as long as I'm making
>trouble, how many have ever worked in a laboratory?
>
>I do- have a chemistry degree and hae woeked in the lab or the plant for
>over 30 years. How about the rest of you?
>
>Bob
>
>--
>
>Bob Burns
>Group Leader, R&D
>Ruetgers-Nease Corp.
>201 Struble Road
>State College, PA
>phone 8142319214
>fax 8142381567
>email rburns@bigfoot.com
>
>
David L. Perram
Research Scientist II
Civil and Environmental Engineering
Michigan Technological University
1400 Townsend Dr.
Houghton, MI 49931
Phone (906) 487-2713
Fax (906) 487-3292
Secretary Phone (906) 487-2098
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:08:01 -0500
Reply-To: deputyn@emu.edu
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <deputyn@inserv1.emu.edu>
From: Nancy Deputy <deputyn@EMU.EDU>
Organization: Eastern Mennonite University
Subject: CHO
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
I am a part time CHO. I have a BS degree with a major in biology. I
have 5yrs experience as a lab tech, 3yrs experience as a chemistry
teacher (high school), and 2yrs as a CHO. Also, I have 5yrs
experience as a EMT, Shock Trauma Tech on the volunteer rescue squad.
I work at a small university. The problem is that I feel like the
only person that is concerned with safety. I can't even warn
students if they are doing something dangerous. Well, I can't
continue here morally and ethically. I am a parent and it is just
like watching someone's child climbing up a dangerous pole for
example. Most people would intervene and stop that child. So
I truly don't understand why people would let a child (student) be
in danger.
Any response?
unsigned
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:20:32 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: Re: CHO
Comments: To: deputyn@emu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
If it's as bad as you say, do something else. A CHO needs the active
support of managment (administration?) to be effective, and sounds like
you don't have it. Go work somewhere where you will be supported and
appreciated before a serious accident happens and you get dumped on for
not preventing it.
GO!
Nancy Deputy wrote:
> I am a part time CHO. I have a BS degree with a major in biology. I
> have 5yrs experience as a lab tech, 3yrs experience as a chemistry
> teacher (high school), and 2yrs as a CHO. Also, I have 5yrs
> experience as a EMT
Shock Trauma Tech on the volunteer rescue squad.
>
> I work at a small university. The problem is that I feel like the
> only person that is concerned with safety. I can't even warn
> students if they are doing something dangerous. Well, I can't
> continue here morally and ethically. I am a parent and it is just
> like watching someone's child climbing up a dangerous pole for
> example. Most people would intervene and stop that child. So
> I truly don't understand why people would let a child (student) be
> in danger.
>
> Any response?
> unsigned
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:23:33 -0500
Reply-To: deputyn@emu.edu
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <deputyn@inserv1.emu.edu>
From: Nancy Deputy <deputyn@EMU.EDU>
Organization: Eastern Mennonite University
Subject: preg. students
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
I have done some research on this subject. Health officials
recommend that the student should see a family doctor and even an
occupational doctor. Why both? The family doctor is not going to
know what kind of hazards are in a chemical lab. This is why it is
good to have 2 opinions. Let the doctor recommend or not if the
student should work in the lab. Also, professor could provide other
type of work instead of lab work.
Well, that's my 2 cents worth.
opinion is my own not my employer.
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:40:18 -0700
Reply-To: terrie@cc.usu.edu
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Terrie Wierenga <terrie@CC.USU.EDU>
Organization: USDA-ARS PPRL
Subject: pregnancy & lab work
Comments: To: Bob Burns <rburns@bigfoot.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Bob wrote:
"I understand there are teratogens everywhere- but I think we have a
responsibility to prevent exposure in areas under our control. I think
you
have to assume the possibility of chemical exposure, and the risks far
outweigh the other considerations.
I wouldn't want my daughters to wotrk in lab if they were pregnant. How
about you?"
+++++
I have no problem whatsoever with any daughters of mine working in a
chemical laboratory PROVIDED the proper exposure control measures are
used and a hazard analysis focused on possible effects to the fetus was
conducted. At our research lab alone, we have had three women in the
past 15 years continue to work in the lab and field research sites
throughout the course of their pregnancies. As the pregnancy progresses,
some changes will have to be made (primarily due to ergonomics
considerations and possible health complications, i.e., if they would
have to stand all day, in which case you can provide a chair and a new
work area).
I say again, it is wrong to ban a woman from a research lab merely
because she is pregnant.
Terrie
All opinions are my own, not those of USDA, etc.
--
****
Terrie Wierenga
USDA-ARS Poisonous Plant Research Lab, Logan, Utah
v: (435) 752-2941 f: (435) 753-5681
e: terrie@cc.usu.edu
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:42:06 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: Re: pregnancy & lab work
Comments: To: terrie@cc.usu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I hear you.
Thanks.
Terrie Wierenga wrote:
> Bob wrote:
>
> "I understand there are teratogens everywhere- but I think we have a
> responsibility to prevent exposure in areas under our control. I think
> you
> have to assume the possibility of chemical exposure, and the risks far
> outweigh the other considerations.
>
> I wouldn't want my daughters to wotrk in lab if they were pregnant. How
>
> about you?"
>
> +++++
> I have no problem whatsoever with any daughters of mine working in a
> chemical laboratory PROVIDED the proper exposure control measures are
> used and a hazard analysis focused on possible effects to the fetus was
> conducted. At our research lab alone, we have had three women in the
> past 15 years continue to work in the lab and field research sites
> throughout the course of their pregnancies. As the pregnancy progresses,
> some changes will have to be made (primarily due to ergonomics
> considerations and possible health complications, i.e., if they would
> have to stand all day, in which case you can provide a chair and a new
> work area).
>
> I say again, it is wrong to ban a woman from a research lab merely
> because she is pregnant.
>
> Terrie
>
> All opinions are my own, not those of USDA, etc.
>
> --
> ****
> Terrie Wierenga
> USDA-ARS Poisonous Plant Research Lab, Logan, Utah
> v: (435) 752-2941 f: (435) 753-5681
> e: terrie@cc.usu.edu
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:46:17 -0800
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Teresa Robertson <Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Organization: CSU Bakersfield
Subject: Re: cho
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
In the "Lab Standard" (29 CFR Part 1910 Occupational Exposures to
Hazardous Chemicals in Laboratories), a "Designated Area" is defined as
"an area which may be used for work with "select carcinogens",
reproductive toxins, or substances which have a high degree of acute
toxicity. A designated area may be the entire laboratory, an area of a
laboratory hood, or a device such as a laboratory hood."
So, how does the standard define select carcinogens, reproductive
toxins, and acute toxins? The standard gives specific references for
determining which items in our inventories are to be handled as
carcinogens, i.e. listed by IARC (group 1, 2A, or 2B), the most recent
edition of the Annual Report on Carcinogens by the NTP, or they are
regulated by OSHA.
Even though it takes a great deal of studying to become intimately
acquainted with these carcinogen lists, at least they have been
specified. If this is the case with the reproductive and acute toxins,
I have been unable to find reference to these lists. In Appendix A,
part E, General Procedures for Working With Chemicals, there are some
examples, but these are only examples, not 'complete listings'.
The standard defines "reproductive toxins" as "chemicals which affect
the reproductive capabilities including chromosomal damage (mutations)
and effects on fetuses (teratogenesis)." I found one list of mutagens
on the WWW that says it was generated using "Dangerous Properties of
Industrial Materials" by Sax and Irving, which based on their
reference, sounded like it would be a good list, but in going over the
list, I would find it truly shocking if a designated area would be
considered a necessity for some items, and therefore must have doubt
about other items on this list.
As for acute toxins, I have not found a definition in the Lab Standard.
Since I work for the State of California in a state building, my
chemical storage is regulated by the State Fire Marshall. One of the
criteria the fire code says we can use for determining toxicity can be
found on more MSDS than any other, LD 50, oral rat. For purposes of
inventory limits, toxic is defined as an LD 50 of 51-500 mg/kg and
highly toxic as 50 mg/kg or less. As for purposes of the chemical
hygiene plan, we also take note of when the manufacturer's label or
MSDS describes the material as toxic.
Does anyone know of any WWW lists of LD 50 data (looking up the data on
every MSDS is quite-time consuming) ?
Does anyone know of any WWW lists of mutagens and/or teratogens ?
I imagine to many of you this may seem apparent, but for those of you
like me, to which it was not, I'd like to share an inventory control
tip from my friends at California State University, Sacramento recently
passes along to me --- make your primary data base sort the CAS
number. As my friends pointed out, one of the advantages is that it
can prevent ordering something you already have in stock, but have it
inventoried another another name. I now find it to be of great use
when comparing my inventory to the carcinogen (and other) lists.
Teresa R. Robertson, CCHO
California State University, Bakersfield
P.S. Thank you very much to James Kaufman for the "Kinder, Gentler
Laboratory Standard"
LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU,.internet writes:
>In a message dated 98-03-23 21:17:03 EST, Teresa Robertson wrote:
><< I still learn new things every day. Most of you must feel that way
> also, or we would not have NACHO. >>
>JAK: What kinds of learning experiences would be most valueable
>for CHO's and folks interested in lab safety/CHO/CHP issue? And,
>how can NACHO help provide it?
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
>organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
>important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
>Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
>schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
>
>**********************************************************************
>X-SMTP-From: owner-labsafety-l@SIU.EDU
>X-SMTP-To: Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU
>Received: from saluki-mail.siu.edu (saluki-mail.siu.edu
>[131.230.252.17]) by bak_compserv6.csubak.edu with SMTP id MSGTTTQE;
>Tue, 24 Mar 1998 03:39:02 GMT
>Received: from saluki-mail.siu.edu (saluki-mail.siu.edu
>[131.230.252.17]) by saluki-mail.siu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with
>ESMTP id VAA37898; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:23:05 -0600 (CST)
>Received: from SIU.EDU by SIU.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8c) with
>spool id 941206 for LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:23:04 -0600
>Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by
>saluki-mail.siu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id VAA65278 for
><LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:23:03 -0600 (CST)
>Received: from Labsafe@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id
>8AVUa03893 for <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:25:02 -0500
>(EST)
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64
>Message-ID: <a20de86c.35172791@aol.com>
>Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:25:02 EST
>Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
>Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
>From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
>Subject: Re: cho
>To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:47:05 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Cohen, Barry" <bcohen@GENZYME.COM>
Subject: Pregnancy Policies
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Employment discrimination laws preclude establishing policies that limit
the tasks that a pregnant employee can undertake.
The one notable exception is the "declared pregnant employee" aspect of
10
CFR Part 20 - this NRC regulation sets a more conservative radiation
dose
limit for those employees who choose to "declare" their pregnancy and
calls
for a termination of all work with radioactive materials for any
declared
pregnant employee who receives, during the pregnancy, a dose in excess
of
the limit or exceed the prescribed dose rate even if the total dose is
still below the limit.
The big caveat in this reg, that gets it past the employment
discrimination
aspect, is that the employee has the right to choose whether or not to
declare her pregnancy and the declaration is solely for purposes of
establishing the exposure monitoring process. In other words, she can
be
nine months, so big she can hardly reach the lab bench, and if she has
not
declared her pregnancy, in terms on this regulation, she is NOT
pregnant.
There is a long history and debate over pregnant employee laws - and
there
are aspects of the laws that can be argued to be both protective and
discriminatory to women. But current law says that pregnant employees
are
not to be treated differently than non pregnant. And by extension,
"women
of child bearing age" are no different than women or men of any age.
With regard to safety policies, the best advice is to establish ones
that
are protective of all your employees, that reduce potential exposures
below
established limits and as low are reasonably achievable for all
employees.
Barry David Cohen
Site Manager, Safety & Environmental Compliance
Genzyme Corporation
500 Soldiers Field Road
Allston, Massachusetts 02134
Voice: (617) 562-4507
FAX: (617) 562-4599
NEXTEL: (617) 590-2707
E-Mail: bcohen@genzyme.com
http://www.genzyme.com
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:29:09 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: Re: Pregnancy Policies
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Wow! Talk about opening a can of worms!
Legalities aside for a moment, what would the prudent person do? I guess
I'd advise the employee to stay out of lab, but from what you and others
say, if she insists, she has to be allowed in.
Note that our policy never reduces an employees income in any way.
Cohen, Barry wrote:
> Employment discrimination laws preclude establishing policies that limit
> the tasks that a pregnant employee can undertake.
>
> The one notable exception is the "declared pregnant employee" aspect of
> 10
> CFR Part 20 - this NRC regulation sets a more conservative radiation
> dose
> limit for those employees who choose to "declare" their pregnancy and
> calls
> for a termination of all work with radioactive materials for any
> declared
> pregnant employee who receives, during the pregnancy, a dose in excess
> of
> the limit or exceed the prescribed dose rate even if the total dose is
> still below the limit.
>
> The big caveat in this reg, that gets it past the employment
> discrimination
> aspect, is that the employee has the right to choose whether or not to
> declare her pregnancy and the declaration is solely for purposes of
> establishing the exposure monitoring process. In other words, she can
> be
> nine months, so big she can hardly reach the lab bench, and if she has
> not
> declared her pregnancy, in terms on this regulation, she is NOT
> pregnant.
>
> There is a long history and debate over pregnant employee laws - and
> there
> are aspects of the laws that can be argued to be both protective and
> discriminatory to women. But current law says that pregnant employees
> are
> not to be treated differently than non pregnant. And by extension,
> "women
> of child bearing age" are no different than women or men of any age.
>
> With regard to safety policies, the best advice is to establish ones
> that
> are protective of all your employees, that reduce potential exposures
> below
> established limits and as low are reasonably achievable for all
> employees.
>
> Barry David Cohen
> Site Manager, Safety & Environmental Compliance
> Genzyme Corporation
> 500 Soldiers Field Road
> Allston, Massachusetts 02134
>
> Voice: (617) 562-4507
> FAX: (617) 562-4599
> NEXTEL: (617) 590-2707
> E-Mail: bcohen@genzyme.com
> http://www.genzyme.com
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:36:29 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Thomas J. Shelley" <tjs1@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: pregnancy & lab work
In-Reply-To: <3517FE12.5E091BDC@cc.usu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
Terrie Wierenga wrote:
>I say again, it is wrong to ban a woman from a research lab merely
>because she is pregnant.
Dear Colleagues--I am not a lawyer, but I believe it to be the case
that it is <italic>illegal </italic>
to ban a pregnant woman from the workplace. Only the woman can make
the decision
to leave the workplace because of pregnancy. The employer must protect
all
workers from exposures to hazardous agents equally. Some special
accomdations
may need to be made, especially late in the term of the pregnancy, but
existing worker
protection standards apply to all workers. This goes for chemicals,
ionizing radiation
and other hazardous agents. If you have any questions about this check
with the
human resources staff of your organization or your legal counsel.
Tom Shelley
**********************************************************
Tom Shelley, Chemical Hygiene Officer, Cornell University,
Department of Environmental Health and Safety, 125 Humphreys Service
Building,
Ithaca, NY 14853. (607) 255-4288 tjs1@cornell.edu
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ DISCLAIMER @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
The comments and views expressed in this communication are strictly my
own and
are not to be construed to officially represent those of my peers,
supervisors or
Cornell University.
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:32:06 -0800
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Teresa Robertson <Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Organization: CSU Bakersfield
Subject: Re: query
Comments: To: rburns@bigfoot.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I do remember the discussion in Vegas, and while I agree with you that
it should not be done, and that I would not have worked in any of the
labs where I have been employed while pregnant, and cannot understand
why anyone would consider a career more important, this is the message
I heard in Vegas and again today -
There are probably civil rights issues here that should be very
carefully weighed if an employee choses to continue to work, and the
employer disagrees and vica versa. And this may be a quirky thought,
but the fetus is not protected by OSHA.
Here on the university level, we have been advised we cannot ban
students due to this condition if they chose to attend, but if brought
to our attention, we should give them all the advice we can about what
their labs will entail, advise them to discuss it with their physician,
and I do tell them that although they have the choice, I suggest
postponing lab classes.
TRR, CSUB CCHO
rburns@bigfoot.com,.internet writes:
>Ok, all you CHOs- here's a real-world question for you. (Those of you
>at the pre exam sessins in Vegas may remember I brought it up there
>too.)
>What does one do with a pregnant female?
>Ban from lab? Ignore? What?
>Our policy is to ban and provide other work at the same rate of pay. It
>happens a lot here, so it's an issue.
>Bob
>--
>Robert L. Burns
>Group Leader, R&D
>Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
>201 Struble Road
>State College, PA 16801
>phone 814-231-9214
>fax 814-238-1567
>email rburns@bigfoot.com
>X-SMTP-From: owner-labsafety-l@SIU.EDU
>X-SMTP-To: Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU
>Received: from saluki-mail.siu.edu (saluki-mail.siu.edu
>[131.230.252.17]) by bak_compserv6.csubak.edu with SMTP id MSGTTTQE;
>Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:54:06 GMT
>Received: from saluki-mail.siu.edu (saluki-mail.siu.edu
>[131.230.252.17]) by saluki-mail.siu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with
>ESMTP id KAA23868; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:37:25 -0600 (CST)
>Received: from SIU.EDU by SIU.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8c) with
>spool id 934966 for LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:37:23 -0600
>Received: from csrlink.net (schroeder.csrlink.net [209.173.80.1]) by
>saluki-mail.siu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id KAA07782 for
><LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:32:33 -0600 (CST)
>Received: from bigfoot.com (station25.ruetgers.csrlink.net
>[207.44.5.121]) by csrlink.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA14943 for
><LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>; Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:34:34 -0500 (EST)
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Message-ID: <3517E0A1.A39E0EEA@bigfoot.com>
>Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:34:41 -0500
>Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
>Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
>From: Bob Burns <rburns@bigfoot.com>
>Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
>Subject: query
>To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:05:54 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Dr. Linda A. Swihart" <swihart@PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Pregnancy Policies
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Wow! Talk about opening a can of worms!
>
>Legalities aside for a moment, what would the prudent person do? I guess
>I'd advise the employee to stay out of lab, but from what you and others
>say, if she insists, she has to be allowed in.
>
>Note that our policy never reduces an employees income in any way.
It's an old can of worms. Been opened many a time and the worms are
probably mostly dead from being picked through.
"Prudent" persons have to consider all the aspects. It would be
*extremely* imprudent to ban pregnant or "child-bearing age" women from the
lab, "legalities aside."
Suppose drastically different racial susceptibilities to particular
chemicals were proven. Would it seem prudent to ban a race of people from
a particular type of work or workplace, even if you didn't lower their
salary? Most of us do the work we do for a lot of other reasons besides
the salary.
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:04:05 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Ami Ruffing <aruffing@CEHS.SIU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Pregnancy policies
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
I've worked as an environmental chemist for nearly twenty years, through
five (yes, 5) successful pregnancies. During each one, I took a
proactive role in deciding what I felt I could work with; I did a good
deal of research concerning the toxicological properties of the
chemicals I could be exposed to, and let my bosses know what was going
on. They acquiesed to my requests willingly, I think, because they
weren't chemists and trusted my judgement. Just generally I avoided
organic solvents and some other suspect carcinogens. My advice would be
to solicit the input of the pregnant worker! Knowledge and awareness
will help her, and her doctor, make informed decisions. Of course her
health and the baby's health should be the foremost concerns, but
believe me the employee will be happier and more productive if she's
part of a decision-making team, and not just forbidden to do any
"chemical" work.
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:17:46 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: Re: query -Reply
Comments: To: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@mailbox.une.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks Janeen. I guess we just took the easy way out. That policy has been in effect
befoer my tenure as CHO, by the way.
If you had been working for us, and we offered you meaningful work, would you have
accepted it? I mean meaningful in the sense that it would be professional work, not
answering phones or like that. Generally, ananalytical supervisor could do a lot of her
job here without ever going in the lab. I know I have to make time for lab work any more.
Janeen LaPierre wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> Ok, all you CHOs- here's a real-world question for you. (Those of you
> at the pre exam sessions in Vegas may remember I brought it up there
> too.)
>
> What does one do with a pregnant female?
>
> Ban from lab? Ignore? What?
>
> Our policy is to ban and provide other work at the same rate of pay. It
> happens a lot here, so it's an issue.
>
> Bob
>
> --
> Robert L. Burns
> Group Leader, R&D
> Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
> 201 Struble Road
> State College, PA 16801
> phone 814-231-9214
> fax 814-238-1567
> email rburns@bigfoot.com
>
> <<<<<<<<<<
> Well Bob,
>
> This is a very personal question for me. You see, I was a pregnant female working as
an analytical chemistry supervisor. My first stop was at the desk of my manager to let him
know of my delicate condition. We worked very closely in reviewing the chemicals that were
used on a routine basis for teratogens and mutagens. These chemicals and procedures were
reassigned to some of my coworkers. By and large, I continued to work productively in the
lab until two weeks prior to my due date.
>
> I am happy to report that my baby was a strapping lad at nearly 9lbs and 21inches. I
made it my business to know everything there was to know about my environment through out
my pregnancy. I found I encountered more difficult situations outside work. Second hand
smoke, gasoline vapors, cleaning chemicals in my home, etc.
>
> I just recently had my second child. She is 9 months this week. I currently and
during the pregnancy worked as a research assistant and CHO. Again, I had the same
approach, check, recheck and communicate. We have had several pregnant students in various
labs, organic chem, gross anatomy, etc. It is always of great concern, and we recommend
that students take these courses at a later time. However, we can not demand this for a
myriad of reasons that make academia very different from industry. Again, I research very
carefully, educate the student and in some cases make arrangements for her to work in an
adjacent lab so she is less likely to be exposed to anything by another student.
>
> Bottom line, I think each case needs to be looked at on an individual basis. What are
the hazards, how many people share the space, what kind of precautions can easily be made?
I had no problems. None of my students have encountered problems. I know it can be done
safely. Communication is key!
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:22:26 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: Re: Pregnancy Policies
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
True, but I'm refering to a temporary condition. When I had my knee operation,
I was out of lab for a few weeks, and I thought that was fine. Got caught up
on my tech. reading, anyway!
Dr. Linda A. Swihart wrote:
> >Wow! Talk about opening a can of worms!
> >
> >Legalities aside for a moment, what would the prudent person do? I guess
> >I'd advise the employee to stay out of lab, but from what you and others
> >say, if she insists, she has to be allowed in.
> >
> >Note that our policy never reduces an employees income in any way.
>
> It's an old can of worms. Been opened many a time and the worms are
> probably mostly dead from being picked through.
>
> "Prudent" persons have to consider all the aspects. It would be
> *extremely* imprudent to ban pregnant or "child-bearing age" women from the
> lab, "legalities aside."
>
> Suppose drastically different racial susceptibilities to particular
> chemicals were proven. Would it seem prudent to ban a race of people from
> a particular type of work or workplace, even if you didn't lower their
> salary? Most of us do the work we do for a lot of other reasons besides
> the salary.
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:05:45 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Pregnancy policies -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
>>>>>>>>>>
I've worked as an environmental chemist for nearly twenty years, through
five (yes, 5) successful pregnancies. During each one, I took a
proactive role in deciding what I felt I could work with; I did a good
deal of research concerning the toxicological properties of the
chemicals I could be exposed to, and let my bosses know what was going
on. They acquiesed to my requests willingly, I think, because they
weren't chemists and trusted my judgement. Just generally I avoided
organic solvents and some other suspect carcinogens. My advice would be
to solicit the input of the pregnant worker! Knowledge and awareness
will help her, and her doctor, make informed decisions. Of course her
health and the baby's health should be the foremost concerns, but
believe me the employee will be happier and more productive if she's
part of a decision-making team, and not just forbidden to do any
"chemical" work.
<<<<<<<<<<
Amen to that! Communication is Key!!!
Janeen
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:22:51 +0000
Reply-To: cdawley@transport.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Cheryl Dawley <cdawley@TRANSPORT.COM>
Subject: Re: Pregnancy policies
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I agree with Ami. I just had my second child. My employers were very
supportive about making sure everyone around me was extra safety conscious
(i.e., warning me ahead of time when anything questionable was going to be
used.)
Another points: Mutagens work on males, too.
Ami Ruffing wrote:
> I've worked as an environmental chemist for nearly twenty years, through
> five (yes, 5) successful pregnancies. During each one, I took a
> proactive role in deciding what I felt I could work with; I did a good
> deal of research concerning the toxicological properties of the
> chemicals I could be exposed to, and let my bosses know what was going
> on. They acquiesed to my requests willingly, I think, because they
> weren't chemists and trusted my judgement. Just generally I avoided
> organic solvents and some other suspect carcinogens. My advice would be
> to solicit the input of the pregnant worker! Knowledge and awareness
> will help her, and her doctor, make informed decisions. Of course her
> health and the baby's health should be the foremost concerns, but
> believe me the employee will be happier and more productive if she's
> part of a decision-making team, and not just forbidden to do any
> "chemical" work.
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:02:28 -1000
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Peter Batsakis <batsakis@HAWAII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: What is a Chemical Hygiene Officer (CHO)?
In-Reply-To: <298eb1d3.3517a922@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dear Colleagues,
I know I'm jumping into this discussion abit late, but the time
differences here in Hawaii usually preclude me from entering discussions
in "real time".
I am interested in what Jim has discussed regarding getting
management involved with safety issues. I believe he is correct that the
best systems are those where everyone is involved in the decision making
process - management and the employees. This discussion is particularly
relevant to me since I am trying to get this type of cooperation from
various groups that work on the campus. I am having some difficulty in
forming a Chemical Safety Committee to help change our Chemical Hygiene
Plan and the faculty, in particular, has been most disagreeable.
It's an interesting paradox that the group that is most vocal
about how our current CHP is too severe refuse to come together to give
our department any input about changes. Instead we get complaints.
I know this must be a common problem for many of you, both in
academia and the corporate world. I wonder if it's just a universal law
that people will complain about issues but when asked to help make
changes, they say they're too busy.
I realize that there is probably no solution to my dilemma, but all
the talk about responsibility and the duties of a CHO has made me wonder
if many of you are as frustrated as I am about people who complain but
won't get involved with a solution?
Thanks,
Pete
**********************************************
Peter Batsakis
Chemical Hygiene Officer
University of Hawaii at Manoa
2040 East-West Road, Honolulu, Hawaii 96822
Phone: (808) 956-3201 FAX: (808) 956-3205
E-mail: batsakis@hawaii.edu
**********************************************
On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Labsafe wrote:
>
> JAK: Yes, the question does come up. And the debate and discussion
> may well go on long after were gone.
>
> It should be noted that ......
> One of the characteristic of organizations that are "excellent" in
> the health and safety area is that "management is responsible for the
> prevention of accidents and injuries and damage to health and the
> environment."
>
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:57:56 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Guy Innocente <innocent@ICI.NET>
Subject: Re: cho
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
How do you motivate people. Know your audience, know your material and
bring something to catch everybbody's attention. Among other duties, I
conduct a 1.5 hour new employee safety orientation in a teaching hospital.
The audience may contain the Jr. High Schoold drop out, lab techs, fiscal
officer, M.D. and PhD all together.
It's amazing, but you can sometimes hold everybody's interest, if you plan
your presentation based on the audience.
About once or twice each year out of these orientations, I will use a vacuum
cleaner, toilet paper dispense and the Arrhenius Equation. Most can
associate with the vacuum cleaner, the PhDs can associate with the
Activation energies and the gas constant and everyone wants to see what the
safety officer needs to bring the TP dispenser to a training class for.
(BTW, the dispenser is made of an ABS plastic, good to talk about quantity
of smoke and toxic materials generated in a fire)
----------------\/---------------\/---------------\/------------
At 10:20 AM 3/24/98 -0600, you wrote:
>At 08:03 AM 3/24/98 -0500, Bob Burns wrote:
>>My biggest question is how to motivate people (including myself- this
>NACHO is
>>helping!) to follow the CHP.
>>
>
>I've found that the best way to motivate people is to convincve them that
>the CHP is the right thing to do. Of course, that means that you have
>built a safety consensus while developing the CHP and didn't just make a
>bunch of innane rules or a flimsy, "go and be safe" document.
>
>There are ALWAYS going to be people that will do as the well please, and I
>have found that the worst people to give safety training to are those with
>three letters after their name, "Ph.D.", because by definition, they most
>know everything, or at least they are convinced that they do, or "it has
>never happened to them, so it never will." I think that the death of
>Wetterhahn at Dartmouth, though indeed unfortunate and tragic, has served
>as a excellent training example when dealing with the attitude, since it
>DID happen to someone. Still, some just won't change and no matter how
>much you try, you're just interferring with "research" or
"science," and
>those with tenure might ignore you with impunity. As a CHO, this is one of
>the things that we must face, and just hope for an early retirement so when
>the committee replaces these people, you can get one that is more
>open-minded to safety training. Document all of your attempts, of course.
>So far, I have been lucky in this respect, most people I deal with listen
>to good ideas and I really work hard at building a consensus about safety.
>
>An idea for those at smaller colleges where things are more easily changed
>is to develop a course in laboratory safety instead of just trying to cover
>it during regular lab time. Students can be introduced to OSHA standards
>in more detail, topics can be covered in depth such as compressed gas
>hazards, electrical safety or a mirad of other topics. I am working on a 2
>semester hour course in lab safety just for fun, and so far I have ample
>information. The benefit of a program such as this is widespread, from
>graduate schools to industry. Larger universities would also benefit from
>such a program, but it has been my experience that status quo is sometimes
>harder to change at a larger institution.
>
>Time for me to get back to work!
>
>Harry
>
>
>
>
>
>Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO
>Chemical Hygiene Officer
>Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety
>Opinions are mine, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah
>
>"You won't find this on 'Beakman's World.'"
> -Special Agent Fox Mulder
>
>
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:34:00 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Philosophical Musings
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-24 09:32:58 EST, Stefan W. wrote:
<< we need to realize is that what works in industry may not work
in academia, and what works at a University may not work at a
small liberal arts college, and how a hospital clinical lab deals with
the lab standard may differ from the private environmental lab. >>
JAK: And, it may not work at two different Universities or two different
colleges (because the people are different). NACHO has the potential
to help us all put lots of arrows in our quivers.
Question: Which oil company finds the most oil?
Answer: The one that drills the most holes.
I'm off to the ACS meeting in Dallas and won't get any email
until Tuesday, March 31st. Have fun. Looks like things are
starting to heat up on the list. Great! ... jak
PS... Remember the DIGEST option if the volume of messages
starts to get overwhelming.
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:33:56 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Re[4]: What is a Chemical Hygiene Officer (CHO)?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-03-24 08:17:17 EST, Andrew S. wrote:
<< I worked as the corporate h&s director, my role was to establish
policy, document requirements, procedures, etc, and verify (audit)
implementation BY THE LINE. I was not only "prohibited" from
"implementing" but by virtue of my location at corporate headquarters
it was not really feasible for me to "implement" at 25 or so regional
locations. >>
JAK: I'll stick to my original premise. And, I'll repeat it in case some
missed it.....
It should be noted that ......
One of the characteristic of organizations that are "excellent" in
the health and safety area is that "management is responsible for the
prevention of accidents and injuries and damage to health and the
environment."
My feeling is that ....
This stuff is not that complicated. At some point you have to decide
what's important and how you want to spend your time. That's what
this really comes down to in the final analysis. It's just a matter of
priorities. Period.
Others might well feel differently.
You see, it may not be your priorities which are the issue but rather
those of more senior management. Sure everyone has obstacles. And,
as George Bernard Shaw said: "I don't believe in circumstances. The
people who get on in the world look for the circumstances they want
and if they can't find them, they make them.
*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education
The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.
LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
**********************************************************************
==================================
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 07:58:21 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: Re: What is a Chemical Hygiene Officer (CHO)?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Safety is a line responsibility. The CHO, IMHO, is a staff adviser.
Labsafe wrote:
> In a message dated 98-03-24 08:17:17 EST, Andrew S. wrote:
>
> << I worked as the corporate h&s director, my role was to establish
> policy, document requirements, procedures, etc, and verify (audit)
> implementation BY THE LINE. I was not only "prohibited" from
> "implementing" but by virtue of my location at corporate headquarters
> it was not really feasible for me to "implement" at 25 or so regional
> locations. >>
>
> JAK: I'll stick to my original premise. And, I'll repeat it in case some
> missed it.....
>
> It should be noted that ......
> One of the characteristic of organizations that are "excellent" in
> the health and safety area is that "management is responsible for the
> prevention of accidents and injuries and damage to health and the
> environment."
>
> My feeling is that ....
> This stuff is not that complicated. At some point you have to decide
> what's important and how you want to spend your time. That's what
> this really comes down to in the final analysis. It's just a matter of
> priorities. Period.
>
> Others might well feel differently.
>
> You see, it may not be your priorities which are the issue but rather
> those of more senior management. Sure everyone has obstacles. And,
> as George Bernard Shaw said: "I don't believe in circumstances. The
> people who get on in the world look for the circumstances they want
> and if they can't find them, they make them.
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
> **********************************************************************
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:07:58 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Madelyn Miller <mmiller@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Subject: Can't post
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Greetings All,
This is a test message. I sent two messages to the list yesterday
that haven't yet appeared yet. If I can post two days after the topic
is launched I might have to settle on reading and not contributing.
Alas.
Madelyn
----------------------
Madelyn Miller
Chemical Safety Specialist
Environmental Health & Safety
Carnegie Mellon University
mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu
==================================
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:01:52 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Can't post -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Got your message - Janeen
==================================
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:44:57 -0700
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Jeffery M Erickson <ERI@INEL.GOV>
Subject: Re: cho
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
One of the best sources for LD 50 data as well as data on carcinogens and
reproductive toxins is the Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances
(RTECS) Data. Unfortunately this is not free. I have found information
on the internet for ordering and/or subscribing to RTECS. I can't remember
if there is a list of acute toxins or reproductive toxins, but for an
individual chemical you can find all the test data.
With regards to definition of acute toxins, use the Appendices A and B of
the Hazard Communications Standard (29 CFR 1910.1200) for defining the
scope of health hazards and determining whether or not a chemical is to be
considered hazardous for the lab standard also.
Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU on 03/24/98 11:46:17 AM
Please respond to LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
cc: (bcc: Jeffery M Erickson/ERI/LMITCO/INEEL/US)
Subject: Re: cho
In the "Lab Standard" (29 CFR Part 1910 Occupational Exposures to
Hazardous Chemicals in Laboratories), a "Designated Area" is defined as
"an area which may be used for work with "select carcinogens",
reproductive toxins, or substances which have a high degree of acute
toxicity. A designated area may be the entire laboratory, an area of a
laboratory hood, or a device such as a laboratory hood."
So, how does the standard define select carcinogens, reproductive
toxins, and acute toxins? The standard gives specific references for
determining which items in our inventories are to be handled as
carcinogens, i.e. listed by IARC (group 1, 2A, or 2B), the most recent
edition of the Annual Report on Carcinogens by the NTP, or they are
regulated by OSHA.
Even though it takes a great deal of studying to become intimately
acquainted with these carcinogen lists, at least they have been
specified. If this is the case with the reproductive and acute toxins,
I have been unable to find reference to these lists. In Appendix A,
part E, General Procedures for Working With Chemicals, there are some
examples, but these are only examples, not 'complete listings'.
The standard defines "reproductive toxins" as "chemicals which affect
the reproductive capabilities including chromosomal damage (mutations)
and effects on fetuses (teratogenesis)." I found one list of mutagens
on the WWW that says it was generated using "Dangerous Properties of
Industrial Materials" by Sax and Irving, which based on their
reference, sounded like it would be a good list, but in going over the
list, I would find it truly shocking if a designated area would be
considered a necessity for some items, and therefore must have doubt
about other items on this list.
As for acute toxins, I have not found a definition in the Lab Standard.
Since I work for the State of California in a state building, my
chemical storage is regulated by the State Fire Marshall. One of the
criteria the fire code says we can use for determining toxicity can be
found on more MSDS than any other, LD 50, oral rat. For purposes of
inventory limits, toxic is defined as an LD 50 of 51-500 mg/kg and
highly toxic as 50 mg/kg or less. As for purposes of the chemical
hygiene plan, we also take note of when the manufacturer's label or
MSDS describes the material as toxic.
Does anyone know of any WWW lists of LD 50 data (looking up the data on
every MSDS is quite-time consuming) ?
Does anyone know of any WWW lists of mutagens and/or teratogens ?
I imagine to many of you this may seem apparent, but for those of you
like me, to which it was not, I'd like to share an inventory control
tip from my friends at California State University, Sacramento recently
passes along to me --- make your primary data base sort the CAS
number. As my friends pointed out, one of the advantages is that it
can prevent ordering something you already have in stock, but have it
inventoried another another name. I now find it to be of great use
when comparing my inventory to the carcinogen (and other) lists.
Teresa R. Robertson, CCHO
California State University, Bakersfield
P.S. Thank you very much to James Kaufman for the "Kinder, Gentler
Laboratory Standard"
LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU,.internet writes:
>In a message dated 98-03-23 21:17:03 EST, Teresa Robertson wrote:
><< I still learn new things every day. Most of you must feel that way
> also, or we would not have NACHO. >>
>JAK: What kinds of learning experiences would be most valueable
>for CHO's and folks interested in lab safety/CHO/CHP issue? And,
>how can NACHO help provide it?
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
>organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
>important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
>Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
>schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
>
>**********************************************************************
>X-SMTP-From: owner-labsafety-l@SIU.EDU
>X-SMTP-To: Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU
>Received: from saluki-mail.siu.edu (saluki-mail.siu.edu
>[131.230.252.17]) by bak_compserv6.csubak.edu with SMTP id MSGTTTQE;
>Tue, 24 Mar 1998 03:39:02 GMT
>Received: from saluki-mail.siu.edu (saluki-mail.siu.edu
>[131.230.252.17]) by saluki-mail.siu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with
>ESMTP id VAA37898; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:23:05 -0600 (CST)
>Received: from SIU.EDU by SIU.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8c) with
>spool id 941206 for LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:23:04 -0600
>Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by
>saluki-mail.siu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id VAA65278 for
><LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:23:03 -0600 (CST)
>Received: from Labsafe@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id
>8AVUa03893 for <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:25:02 -0500
>(EST)
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64
>Message-ID: <a20de86c.35172791@aol.com>
>Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:25:02 EST
>Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
>Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
>From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
>Subject: Re: cho
>To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
==================================
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:05:31 -0700
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Jeffery M Erickson <ERI@INEL.GOV>
Subject: Re: cho
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
One of the best sources of information on LD 50s, reproductive toxins,
carcinogens, and acute toxins is the Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical
Substances (RTECS). Unfortunately this is not free. I have found
information on the internet for ordering and/or subscribing to RTECS. I
cannot remember if there are lists of reproductive toxins or acute toxins,
but for a chemical you can find all of the test data (LD 50s, etc.)
With regards to a definition of acute toxins, see the paragraph following
the Hazardous chemical paragraph under definitions in the lab standard
(1910.1450) - Appendices A and B of the Hazard Communication Standard (29
CFR 1910.1200) provide further guidance in defining the scope of health
hazards and determining whether or not a chemical is to be considered
hazardous for the purposes of the lab standard also. These definitions of
toxic and highly toxic relate to the LD 50s and LC 50s.
Also, you mentioned the fire code. We are under jurisdiction of the
Uniform Building Code (UBC), enforced by the Fire Marshall. The UBC uses
the OSHA Hazard Communication definition of acute toxins (toxic and highly
toxic) also. I am not that familiar with the Uniform Fire Code (UFC) but I
think it is equivalent to the UBC. My understanding is that different
parts of the country operate under either the UBC or the UFC. But don't
quote me on this one.
,
Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU on 03/24/98 11:46:17 AM
Please respond to LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
cc: (bcc: Jeffery M Erickson/ERI/LMITCO/INEEL/US)
Subject: Re: cho
In the "Lab Standard" (29 CFR Part 1910 Occupational Exposures to
Hazardous Chemicals in Laboratories), a "Designated Area" is defined as
"an area which may be used for work with "select carcinogens",
reproductive toxins, or substances which have a high degree of acute
toxicity. A designated area may be the entire laboratory, an area of a
laboratory hood, or a device such as a laboratory hood."
So, how does the standard define select carcinogens, reproductive
toxins, and acute toxins? The standard gives specific references for
determining which items in our inventories are to be handled as
carcinogens, i.e. listed by IARC (group 1, 2A, or 2B), the most recent
edition of the Annual Report on Carcinogens by the NTP, or they are
regulated by OSHA.
Even though it takes a great deal of studying to become intimately
acquainted with these carcinogen lists, at least they have been
specified. If this is the case with the reproductive and acute toxins,
I have been unable to find reference to these lists. In Appendix A,
part E, General Procedures for Working With Chemicals, there are some
examples, but these are only examples, not 'complete listings'.
The standard defines "reproductive toxins" as "chemicals which affect
the reproductive capabilities including chromosomal damage (mutations)
and effects on fetuses (teratogenesis)." I found one list of mutagens
on the WWW that says it was generated using "Dangerous Properties of
Industrial Materials" by Sax and Irving, which based on their
reference, sounded like it would be a good list, but in going over the
list, I would find it truly shocking if a designated area would be
considered a necessity for some items, and therefore must have doubt
about other items on this list.
As for acute toxins, I have not found a definition in the Lab Standard.
Since I work for
he State of California in a state building, my
chemical storage is regulated by the State Fire Marshall. One of the
criteria the fire code says we can use for determining toxicity can be
found on more MSDS than any other, LD 50, oral rat. For purposes of
inventory limits, toxic is defined as an LD 50 of 51-500 mg/kg and
highly toxic as 50 mg/kg or less. As for purposes of the chemical
hygiene plan, we also take note of when the manufacturer's label or
MSDS describes the material as toxic.
Does anyone know of any WWW lists of LD 50 data (looking up the data on
every MSDS is quite-time consuming) ?
Does anyone know of any WWW lists of mutagens and/or teratogens ?
I imagine to many of you this may seem apparent, but for those of you
like me, to which it was not, I'd like to share an inventory control
tip from my friends at California State University, Sacramento recently
passes along to me --- make your primary data base sort the CAS
number. As my friends pointed out, one of the advantages is that it
can prevent ordering something you already have in stock, but have it
inventoried another another name. I now find it to be of great use
when comparing my inventory to the carcinogen (and other) lists.
Teresa R. Robertson, CCHO
California State University, Bakersfield
P.S. Thank you very much to James Kaufman for the "Kinder, Gentler
Laboratory Standard"
LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU,.internet writes:
>In a message dated 98-03-23 21:17:03 EST, Teresa Robertson wrote:
><< I still learn new things every day. Most of you must feel that way
> also, or we would not have NACHO. >>
>JAK: What kinds of learning experiences would be most valueable
>for CHO's and folks interested in lab safety/CHO/CHP issue? And,
>how can NACHO help provide it?
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
>organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
>important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
>Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
>schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
>
>**********************************************************************
>X-SMTP-From: owner-labsafety-l@SIU.EDU
>X-SMTP-To: Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU
>Received: from saluki-mail.siu.edu (saluki-mail.siu.edu
>[131.230.252.17]) by bak_compserv6.csubak.edu with SMTP id MSGTTTQE;
>Tue, 24 Mar 1998 03:39:02 GMT
>Received: from saluki-mail.siu.edu (saluki-mail.siu.edu
>[131.230.252.17]) by saluki-mail.siu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with
>ESMTP id VAA37898; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:23:05 -0600 (CST)
>Received: from SIU.EDU by SIU.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8c) with
>spool id 941206 for LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:23:04 -0600
>Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by
>saluki-mail.siu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id VAA65278 for
><LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:23:03 -0600 (CST)
>Received: from Labsafe@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id
>8AVUa03893 for <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:25:02 -0500
>(EST)
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64
>Message-ID: <a20de86c.35172791@aol.com>
>Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:25:02 EST
>Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
>Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
>From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
>Subject: Re: cho
>To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
==================================
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:19:44 -0500
Reply-To: maddenje@bc.edu
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "John G. Madden" <maddenje@BC.EDU>
Subject: Glove use
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
At a recent meeting of the department safety committee, staffed
primarily by PhD faculty, we discussed an injury to a grad student's
hand. She was wearing latex gloves and was working with methylene
chloride which apparently spilled at some point on the knuckle area of
one of her hands. She noted a blistering on her knuckles the next day
and was treated by Health Services for a chemical burn. While there is
some uncertainty if methylene chloride were the actual offender, it
appeared to be the penetrating agent. The conclusion obvious to me is
that the labs need to purchase and use gloves of more appropriate
material, and that the department needs to explore policies and
support mechanisms toward that end. There was a comment that with no
gloves, the MeCl2 likely would have evaporated with little or no ill
effect (?). That brought up another anecdote about an undergrad
student who, while wearing a fairly heavy-duty glove, managed to
insert her finger into a bunsen burner flame. The glove apparently
insulated her skin long enough to allow the rubber to be melted and
she probably wound up with a more serious burn than if she hadn't had
a glove on. Then, almost knocking me off my chair, a speculation was
voiced that had Dr. Wetterhahn not been wearing any gloves at all, the
methyl mercury may have evaporated before being absorbed. (I don't
know if that is possible or probable.)
I will pursue a better policy and procedures regarding glove
use in the department labs with the committee. However, it is sobering
to understand where some of the contrariness towards changing
traditional behavior comes from. It would seem to be counter-intuitive
that no protection is better than some protection, but ...
----------------------
John G. Madden
Administrator
Chemistry Dept.
Boston College
(617) 552-3608
maddenje@bc.edu
==================================
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:17:56 +0000
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Andrew Szilagyi <Andrew.Szilagyi@EM.DOE.GOV>
Subject: Re: Can't post -Reply
got it at 10:17 3/25
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Can't post -Reply
Author: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU at INTERNET
Date: 3/25/98 10:01 AM
Got your message - Janeen
==================================
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:26:23 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: Re: Glove use
Comments: To: maddenje@bc.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
It's the same mind-set that leads people to not wear seat belts so they
will be thrown out in an accident.
The probabilities are that gloves will protect better than no gloves and
seat belts will protect better than no seat belts. Ancedotes like those
quoted are the exception, not the rule. Maybe we should suggest a
refresher course in statistics!
John G. Madden wrote:
> At a recent meeting of the department safety committee, staffed
> primarily by PhD faculty, we discussed an injury to a grad student's
> hand. She was wearing latex gloves and was working with methylene
> chloride which apparently spilled at some point on the knuckle area of
> one of her hands. She noted a blistering on her knuckles the next day
> and was treated by Health Services for a chemical burn. While there is
> some uncertainty if methylene chloride were the actual offender, it
> appeared to be the penetrating agent. The conclusion obvious to me is
> that the labs need to purchase and use gloves of more appropriate
> material, and that the department needs to explore policies and
> support mechanisms toward that end. There was a comment that with no
> gloves, the MeCl2 likely would have evaporated with little or no ill
> effect (?). That brought up another anecdote about an undergrad
> student who, while wearing a fairly heavy-duty glove, managed to
> insert her finger into a bunsen burner flame. The glove apparently
> insulated her skin long enough to allow the rubber to be melted and
> she probably wound up with a more serious burn than if she hadn't had
> a glove on. Then, almost knocking me off my chair, a speculation was
> voiced that had Dr. Wetterhahn not been wearing any gloves at all, the
> methyl mercury may have evaporated before being absorbed. (I don't
> know if that is possible or probable.)
> I will pursue a better policy and procedures regarding glove
> use in the department labs with the committee. However, it is sobering
> to understand where some of the contrariness towards changing
> traditional behavior comes from. It would seem to be counter-intuitive
> that no protection is better than some protection, but ...
>
> ----------------------
> John G. Madden
> Administrator
> Chemistry Dept.
> Boston College
> (617) 552-3608
> maddenje@bc.edu
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:58:18 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Madelyn Miller <mmiller@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Subject: Acutely toxic chemicals
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
We have adopted Prudent Practices definition of acutely toxic
chemicals., 1995 addition, page 42, table 3.1 in our CHP.
Hazard Level Toxicity Level Oral LD50 (Rats, per kg) Skin Contact
LD50 (Rabbits, per kg) Inhalation LC50 (Rats, ppm for 1 h)
Inhalation LC50 (Rats, mg/m3 for 1 h)
Highly toxic <50 mg <200 mg <200 <2,000
Import this into a word processor and it might look right.
We are relying on researchers to identify all particularly hazardous
substances (PHS) that are in their lab. We anticipate this to be a two
year process. This year we are collecting an electronic inventory so
we may have a searchable inventory of the whole campus. Next year we
will ask them to identify all PHS.
With regards to definition of acute toxins, use the Appendices A and B of
the Hazard Communications Standard (29 CFR 1910.1200) for defining the
scope of health hazards and determining whether or not a chemical is to be
considered hazardous for the lab standard also.
----------------------
Madelyn Miller
Chemical Safety Specialist, CCHO
Environmental Health & Safety
Carnegie Mellon University
mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu
==================================
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 18:55:18 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "Thomas J. Shelley" <tjs1@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Acutely toxic chemicals
In-Reply-To: <SIMEON.9803251618.E@miller-pc.PC.CC.CMU.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Madelyn--As a starting point, I use the Acutely Toxic Chemicals list based
on the OSHA Process Safety Standard, 29 CFR 1910.119 App A. See our Web
site for an html version of this table:
http://www.ehs.cornell.edu/lrs/acute_toxins.html
Good luck with your project. Tom
**********************************************************
Tom Shelley, Chemical Hygiene Officer, Cornell University,
Department of Environmental Health and Safety, 125 Humphreys Service Building,
Ithaca, NY 14853. (607) 255-4288 tjs1@cornell.edu
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ DISCLAIMER @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
The comments and views expressed in this communication are strictly my own and
are not to be construed to officially represent those of my peers,
supervisors or
Cornell University.
==================================
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:24:28 PST8PDT
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Debbie Decker <deckerd@FACMGMTSERVER.FM.CSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: cho (training/degrees)
In-Reply-To: <35171119.D3453332@bigfoot.com>
Hi gang:
<Seeing all the safety professionals and stuff in this group, I'm
curious how many of us have chemistry training? And, as long as I'm
making trouble, how many have ever worked in a laboratory?>
BS chemistry from UCDavis. Taught Jr High school for a bit, worked
as a chemist for an explosives company for 8 years, pesticide
analysis for a state certified lab and now, here as CHO (hopefully,
certified soon).
Couldn't do my job without my education and training - not so much
the chemistry but the where to look abilities. And the ability to
stay cool in a crisis (explosives will do that for you <g>). I do
get some credibility with perfessers when I start talking explosives
and war stories from lab <g>.
I'm enjoying NACHO very much! A small request - if we could tailor
the subject lines a little better, it would be most helpful for those
of us who get piles of e-mail every day.
Cheers (on a really gorgeous spring day - almost sinful!),
Deb.
*****************
Debbie Decker
Chemical Hygiene Officer
CSU, Sacramento
(916)278-5165
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 18:52:14 +0800
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Martin Lindsay <clarke@WEB.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Glove Use
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This posting to the PLASMACHEM-L list is appropriate for your consideration...
X-From_: owner-plasmachem-l@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU Tue Mar 17 22:49:47 1998
Delivered-To: ausweb-clarke@WEB.NET.AU
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:51:30 EST5EDT
Reply-To: Goode@psc.psc.sc.edu
Sender: "Analytical Chemistry using ICP's, DCP's, MIP's."
<PLASMACHEM-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
From: Scott Goode <GOODE@PSC.PSC.SC.EDU>
Organization: USC College of Science and Math
Subject: Re: Organic Mercury Species by ICP-MS
To: PLASMACHEM-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Hi Cristina, and others interested in organomercury.
While I'm sure nearly everyone knows about safety
precautions needed for handling organoHg, I don't mind
erring on the side of caution and warning everyone to do
their research on the subject. About a year ago, an
experienced researcher spilled 1-2 drops of dimethyl
mercury on her latex-gloved hand. She died within the
year.
The types of gloves and other precautions have been
described in letters to the editor in Chemical and
Engineering News. Researchers need also think about other
aspects, including disposal.
Here's a short piece from Occupational Hazards, August
1997 v59 n8 p32(1)
An avoidable tragedy. (proper prevention of dermal
exposure in the case of Dartmouth College professor Karen
Wetterhahn)
Abstract: Dartmouth College professor Karen Wetterhahn was
accidentally exposed to one or possibly two drops of
dimethylmercury during a transfer procedure in Aug. 1996.
The accident led to the 48-year-old Wetterhahn's death on
Jun. 8, 1997. Her demise has caused many researchers to
question if their current methods of hand protection are
acceptable. An environmental health and safety expert noted
that disposable latex and PVC gloves were not designed for
use with hazardous or aggressive chemicals.
Full Text: COPYRIGHT 1997 Penton Publishing Inc. That
summer day last August probably started out the same as
many others for Dartmouth College professor Karen
Wetterhahn.
A world-reknown research chemist, she was working on a
project to examine the effects of heavy metals on processes
such as cell metabolism and the transfer of genetic
information.
During a transfer procedure conducted under a fume hood, a
drop, maybe two, of the rare toxic compound dimethylmercury
spilled onto her latex gloves. In that instant, as the
solution permeated the gloves and entered her body through
her skin, Wetterhahn became a participant in her own
experiment.
Mercury attacks the central nervous system. By January,
Wetterhahn was losing her balance. Her speech was slurred
and she was having trouble seeing and hearing.
She was diagnosed with mercury poisoning, her blood
containing 80 times the lethal dose. Three weeks after the
diagnosis, she lapsed into a coma from which she would
never wake.
Karen Wetterhahn died of acute mercury poisoning June 8 at
the age of 48.
Her death has caused many researchers to question if their
current methods of hand protection are adequate. John S.
Winn, Ph.D., chairman of Dartmouth's chemistry department,
said the tragedy has "opened the eyes" of many university
researchers. "Many of them told me that they would have
done the same thing, would have worn latex gloves and
thought they were protected," said Winn.
As the Occupational Safety and Health Administration
investigates Wetterhahn's death, Winn and Michael B.
Blayney, Ph.D., director of environmental health and
safety for the college, have embarked on a crusade to
educate other researchers about the proper handling of
dimethylmercury.
They wrote a letter to Chemical and Engineering News,
notifying readers about Wetterhahn's death and the quick
and undetectable permeation of the dimethylmercury through
her latex gloves. In their letter, Winn and Blayney
suggested that scientists working with dimethylmercury wear
highly resistant laminate gloves under a pair of
long-cuffed, unsupported neoprene, nitrile or similar
heavy-duty gloves.
According to them, all academic institutions need to make
their scientists aware of the limitations of disposable
gloves. Disposable latex and PVC gloves were not developed
for use with hazardous or otherwise aggressive chemicals,
said Blayney.
The challenge facing safety managers at many institutions,
he added, is selecting appropriate gloves without limiting
the researchers' abilities to perform their job functions.
They must be adequately protected from hazards, but still
be able to handle test tubes, beakers and other glassware,
and also be able to perform the fine motor skills they
need to operate microscopes and other equipment.
Paul Cross, Ph.D., CIH, manager of health, safety and
environmental affairs at pharmaceutical giant SmithKline
Beecham, faced some of those challenges with his employees,
many of whom were resistant to even wearing gloves several
years ago and now resist giving up latex gloves for ones
which offer more adequate protection against the hazards
found in their labs.
Cross said there has been much discussion about
Wetterhahn's death at SmithKline Beecham. He called her
death "especially tragic" for two reasons.
"Dimethylmercury is not a new compound. The fact that it
is extremely poisonous through the dermal route has been
known for years. Secondly, she was obviously not aware of
the hazards, or she made assumptions about the protective
ability of latex. There was a lack of understanding there,"
said Cross.
He said that many researchers coming to SmithKline Beecham
straight out of university settings admit they have never
worn protective gloves or safety glasses, even when
working with toxic substances. "We just tell them, 'Well,
you are going to wear them here or else,'" said Cross.
Blayney admitted that what scientists may know and
understand about dermal hazards and the properties and
protective abilities of gloves "is sometimes woefully
inadequate."
"This tragedy underscores the need to do more to ensure
that scientists understand how to select the proper gloves
for the chemicals they work with," said Blayney. He and
Winn are attempting to change that.
"By warning others, something positive can come from this
tragedy," said Winn. "This is the right thing to do and
what Karen would have wanted. Someone had to eat the first
bite of hemlock. This is how you learn, by sharing the
knowledge of research. Unfortunately, this knowledge came
at a high price."
As is true of most occupational safety and health
tragedies, Wetterhahn is not the only person who paid the
price. She leaves behind a husband, two children, her
parents and a sister. Her co-workers are shocked and
confused; her colleagues disheartened; her peers left to
wonder what new discoveries, now lost, she might have
uncovered in her research efforts.
"For the scientific community, Karen's death represents
the loss of one of its brightest lights," said Dartmouth
President James O. Freeman.
A light extinguished by a drop of dimethylmercury spilled
on a hot August day.
==================================
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:22:49 -0400
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: SLYPIG <SLYPIG@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 21 Mar 1998 to 22 Mar 1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The Lahainaluna incident is very saddening.
Corneal transplants notwithstanding, the event exposes an ubiquitous
problem in public systems: The opportunity for youngsters to design and
carry out their own research is so limited that educators who take the
chance to "walk on the wild side" of standardized curricula are often
taking their careers and their students' safety to the limit.
The New York City middle school system was teaching at over 60%
out-of-license, two years ago; I doubt that this has changed. What fool put
a math teacher in charge of a Chemistry class?
If Chemistry teachers were paid the salary commensurate with bearing
Mendeleyev's torch to this precious generation, would this have happened?
LabSafety can pick up this kind of ball, or drop it right here. Putting the
legal screws on pea-brained management often pushes the problem up to where
it really belongs: in the politician's lap.
In short, the teaching environment, with its idiotic budgetary constraints,
is working completely at odds with its stated goals: to foster research and
scientific creativity.
The buck stops ... children.
--JC
----------
> From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV@SIU.EDU>
> To: Recipients of LABSAFETY-L digests <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
> Subject: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 21 Mar 1998 to 22 Mar 1998
> Date: Monday, March 23, 1998 2:00 AM
>
> There are 11 messages totalling 471 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. High School Lab Accident (3)
> 2. CHO Compensation Survey (6)
> 3. DCHAS Executive Board Meeting
> 4. The NACHO Breakfast in Dallas
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 01:10:41 -0500
> From: "Robert E. Brennan" <BobBrennan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
> Subject: High School Lab Accident
>
> The following reference is to an article in the Maui News. I am a High
> School chemistry teacher and will use this in a safety lesson.
>
> http://www.maui.net/~mauinews/lnews5a.htm
>
> Bob Brennan
> Castle HS
> Kaneohe, HI
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 10:28:15 -0500
> From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
> Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
>
> Jim, now I understand the question.
>
> Wouldn't that depend on the size of the laboratory involved? I spend
maybe 5%
> of my time as CHO- for a lab of about 15 people, mixed chemists and
techs, mixed
> process, analytical and QC.
>
> Bob
>
>
> Labsafe wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 98-03-21 10:20:41 EST, Bob Burns wrote:
> >
> > << I'm a working chemist and Group leader- CHO duties are additional.
> > So the question of compensation does not apply- I get paid for my
> > primary job! >>
> >
> > JAK: What I had in mind for cases like this was to look at the % of
> > the job that was allocated to CHO work and the persons gross
> > salary.
> >
> > So, a company paying a chemist/group leader $50K and asking
> > her/him to spend 25% of her/his time on CHO work is paying
> > $10K.
> >
> > *****************************************************
> > James A. Kaufman, President
> > The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> > 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> > 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> > Safety in Science Education
> >
> > The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> > organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> > important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> > Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> > schedule, and membership information are available on request.
> >
> > LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
> >
**********************************************************************
>
>
>
> --
>
> Bob Burns
> Group Leader, R&D
> Ruetgers-Nease Corp.
> 201 Struble Road
> State College, PA
> phone 8142319214
> fax 8142381567
> email rburns@bigfoot.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 10:42:24 -0500
> From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
> Subject: Re: High School Lab Accident
>
> Thanks for sharing.
>
> NI3 has been known for a long time. All the stories I've heard about it
> say never let it dry out. NCl3 is worse- thus the warnings about never
> mix ammonia and bleach.
>
> IMHO- this HS lab needs better- or more informed- supervision. A kid
> should never be allowed to make NI3. And obviously should have been
> wearing eye protection. In my experience, most accidents happen because
> of a combination of things which could have and should have been
> corrected, and this fits the pattern.
>
> Interesting that part of the article is blown out of proportion- caustic
> will not, to my knowledge, explode in water. You will get a lot of heat
> of solution, but explode? Don't think so!
>
> Bob
>
> Robert E. Brennan wrote:
>
> > The following reference is to an article in the Maui News. I am a High
> > School chemistry teacher and will use this in a safety lesson.
> >
> > http://www.maui.net/~mauinews/lnews5a.htm
> >
> > Bob Brennan
> > Castle HS
> > Kaneohe, HI
>
>
>
> --
>
> Bob Burns
> Group Leader, R&D
> Ruetgers-Nease Corp.
> 201 Struble Road
> State College, PA
> phone 8142319214
> fax 8142381567
> email rburns@bigfoot.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:36:13 EST
> From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
>
> In a message dated 98-03-22 10:32:44 EST, you write:
>
> << Jim, now I understand the question.
> Wouldn't that depend on the size of the laboratory involved?
> I spend maybe 5% of my time as CHO- for a lab of about 15
> people, mixed chemists and techs, mixed process, analytical
> and QC.... Bob >>
>
> JAK: Yes, the size of the lab or labs (that is, the number of people
> the CHO is responsible for helping) does make a difference).
>
> Folks could indicate the number of people covered and the % of
> time allocated for these responsibilities.
>
> So far we've had four responses.
>
> I was reminded by one member (N.L.), who was kind enought to
> point it out privately, that 25% of $50k is $12.5k and not $25k.
> So, now the truth about my math skills is out of the bag!
>
> Does this mean I've decreased my chances of being NACHO's
> treasurer? Or, do you think we should elect N.L.?
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
>
**********************************************************************
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:15:35 EST
> From: CGotall <CGotall@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
>
> Jim,
> Not to be a nit picker, but one fourth of 50 is not 10! Has new math
> invaded Lab Safety?
> Carl
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:09:36 -0800
> From: Neal Langerman <chemsaf@IX.NETCOM.COM>
> Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
>
> Jim:
>
> Most employers will not look at ancillary duty as a percentage of a
> professional's salary. While it is nice to think about it that way, if
you
> are a lab chemist making $50k, and you spend 25% of your time on CHO
duties,
> we can cost account the time to $12.5k, but this is not what happens.
If,
> however, you work for EH&S, and make $50k and are the CHO, then what
happens
> is that the CHO gets $50k.
>
> The problem is how employers cost-account salaries. There is no standard
> method. Until CHOs become full-time positions. the salary question will
be
> confusing.
>
> Neal
>
>
> At 10:18 PM 3/21/98 EST, you wrote:
> >In a message dated 98-03-21 12:26:37 EST, Neal Langerman wrote:
> >
> ><< CHOs fall into two general employment classes: Those who work through
an
> > EH&S office and are hired as a CHO and those who become a CHO as an
> > additional duty. In either case, these are professional positions
which
> > include a wide variety of duties, including CHO. In this context, your
> > question is a tad flawed. >>
> >
> >jak: I guess I'm missing something. What was the question being
> > referred to and what was the flawed part?
> >
> > *****************************************************
> > James A. Kaufman, President
> > The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> > 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> > 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> > Safety in Science Education
> >
> >The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> >organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> >important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> >Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> >schedule, and membership information are available on request.
> >
> >LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
> >
**********************************************************************
> >
> >
> *************************************************************
> NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com
> ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY
> 8909 Complex Drive
> San Diego CA 92123-1418
>
> 619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX)
> 619 990 4908 (cellular)
>
> visit our homepage: http:\\www.chemical-safety.com
>
> *************************************************************
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:37:04 EST
> From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
>
> In a message dated 98-03-22 14:26:06 EST, Carl Gottschall wrote:
>
> << Jim, Not to be a nit picker, but one fourth of 50 is not 10!
> Has new math invaded Lab Safety? Carl >>
>
> JAK: New, No. Poor, Yes!
>
> For those NACHO members who have not met Carl, he's the
> editor of Chemical Health and Safety Magazine that everyone
> has be raving about on the list. I'm sure he would welcome your
> contributed articles (if not my math).
>
> On the numeric side, maybe we've found a second candidate to
> run for NACHO treasurer!
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
>
**********************************************************************
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:37:07 EST
> From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Re: CHO Compensation Survey
>
> In a message dated 98-03-22 15:09:22 EST, Neal Langerman wrote:
>
> << Most employers will not look at ancillary duty as a percentage of a
> professional's salary. While it is nice to think about it that way, if
you
> are a lab chemist making $50k, and you spend 25% of your time on CHO
> duties, we can cost account the time to $12.5k, but this is not what
> happens. If, however, you work for EH&S, and make $50k and are the
> CHO, then what happens is that the CHO gets $50k.
>
> The problem is how employers cost-account salaries. There is no
> standard method. Until CHOs become full-time positions. the salary
> question will be confusing. >>
>
> JAK: Neal's absolutely right. It's not what happens, it's just what we
> need to do to get on with it. Of course, if anyone has another method
> that we should be using, let's consider it.
>
> I hope a chemist who is making $50K and is asked by his/her employer
> to be CHO will (1) examine what needs to be done and put it in writing,
> (2) review the list with his/her supervisor and ask "how much of my time
> do you want me to allocate to this project and what shall we take off my
> plate to make room for it", (3) get the supervisors signature/initials on
the
> items that are expected to be accomplished in the current year.
>
> If the items to be accomplished fall far short of achieving full
compliance
> and the company is cited and fined by OSHA, the employee will have in
> writing what he or she was responsible for. The company is responsible
> for full compliance.
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
>
**********************************************************************
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:37:05 EST
> From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
> Subject: DCHAS Executive Board Meeting
>
> The ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety's Executive
> Board will meet in Dallas at the Le Meridien Hotel in the
> Normandy Room at 8-12AM on Sunday, March 29th.
>
> The ACS Joint Board/Council Committee on Chemical
> Safety will meet on Monday, March 30th. Does anyone
> on the list have the location.
>
> Anyone who's interested is welcome to attend as a visitor.
> Showing up at these meetings is an excellent way to begin
> getting involved and to meet others with a common interest
> in safety.
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
>
**********************************************************************
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:47:09 EST
> From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
> Subject: The NACHO Breakfast in Dallas
>
> To: All NACHO Members (LABSAFETY-L Readers)
> Re: Breakfast meeting in Dallas
>
> There will be an informal gathering of NACHO members
> for breakfast at the ACS meeting in Dallas on Monday,
> March 30th at 7:30-8:30AM in the Hyatt Regency Hotel
> restaurant (hopefully, there's only one). Pat Hamm and
> I will be there and look forward to meeting with other members.
> If there is any ambiguity about the location, check at the Bell
> Captain's Desk.
>
> Following the breakfast the ACS Joint Board/Council Committee
> Chemical Safety (CCCS) will meet in the Reunion Ballroom A
> in the same hotel. Dr. Bernard Blais will make a presentation
> on contact lenses. He is in favor of their use in labs. Visitors
> are welcome.
>
> Thanks to Eileen Segal for the meeting location information. I guess
> this shows that there are folks out there looking that this list. ....
jak
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
>
**********************************************************************
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:45:05 EST
> From: Labsafe <Labsafe@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Re: High School Lab Accident
>
> In a message dated 98-03-22 01:27:44 EST, Bob Brennan wrote:
>
> << The following reference is to an article in the Maui News. I am a
> High School chemistry teacher and will use this in a safety lesson.
> http://www.maui.net/~mauinews/lnews5a.htm >>
>
> JAK: This kind of information would be of great interest to all the
> members. Please post a copy of the article to the list.
>
> *****************************************************
> James A. Kaufman, President
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop
> 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
> 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
> Safety in Science Education
>
> The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
> organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
> important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
> Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
> schedule, and membership information are available on request.
>
> LABSAFETY-L is a public service of The Laboratory Safety Workshop.
>
**********************************************************************
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of LABSAFETY-L Digest - 21 Mar 1998 to 22 Mar 1998
> ******************************************************
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:08:38 -0000
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "L. James Stock III" <34EMQ6K@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 21 Mar 1998 to 22 Mar 1998
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
We are currently having our Advanced Inorganic Chemistry students prepare
Nitrogen Triiodide Ammoniate as the first experiment. It is "touched off"
with a meter stick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:15:17 -0000
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: "L. James Stock III" <34EMQ6K@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Glove Use
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Here in the Chemistry Dept. at Central Michigan University we provide
disposable Nitrile gloves made by the Best Corp.. We provide them in all
labs. Most importantly we encourage students to IMMEDIATELY remove them
and discard if ANY contact occurs. All gloves are permeable even Silver
Shields.
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:19:00 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Robert Alaimo <alaimo.rj@PG.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Pregnancy Policies
Message authorized by:
: /S=rburns@bigfoot.com/OU=SMTP/O=1.UCN.GO.31/P=PROCTERGAMBLE/A=MCI/C=US/ at
Remember the Johnson Controls case when banning work
RJA, CCHO
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Pregnancy Policies
Author: (INTERNET)LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu at external
Date: 3/24/98 2:29 PM
Wow! Talk about opening a can of worms!
Legalities aside for a moment, what would the prudent person do? I guess
I'd advise the employee to stay out of lab, but from what you and others
say, if she insists, she has to be allowed in.
Note that our policy never reduces an employees income in any way.
Cohen, Barry wrote:
> Employment discrimination laws preclude establishing policies that limit
> the tasks that a pregnant employee can undertake.
>
> The one notable exception is the "declared pregnant employee" aspect of
> 10
> CFR Part 20 - this NRC regulation sets a more conservative radiation
> dose
> limit for those employees who choose to "declare" their pregnancy and
> calls
> for a termination of all work with radioactive materials for any
> declared
> pregnant employee who receives, during the pregnancy, a dose in excess
> of
> the limit or exceed the prescribed dose rate even if the total dose is
> still below the limit.
>
> The big caveat in this reg, that gets it past the employment
> discrimination
> aspect, is that the employee has the right to choose whether or not to
> declare her pregnancy and the declaration is solely for purposes of
> establishing the exposure monitoring process. In other words, she can
> be
> nine months, so big she can hardly reach the lab bench, and if she has
> not
> declared her pregnancy, in terms on this regulation, she is NOT
> pregnant.
>
> There is a long history and debate over pregnant employee laws - and
> there
> are aspects of the laws that can be argued to be both protective and
> discriminatory to women. But current law says that pregnant employees
> are
> not to be treated differently than non pregnant. And by extension,
> "women
> of child bearing age" are no different than women or men of any age.
>
> With regard to safety policies, the best advice is to establish ones
> that
> are protective of all your employees, that reduce potential exposures
> below
> established limits and as low are reasonably achievable for all
> employees.
>
> Barry David Cohen
> Site Manager, Safety & Environmental Compliance
> Genzyme Corporation
> 500 Soldiers Field Road
> Allston, Massachusetts 02134
>
> Voice: (617) 562-4507
> FAX: (617) 562-4599
> NEXTEL: (617) 590-2707
> E-Mail: bcohen@genzyme.com
> http://www.genzyme.com
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:06:48 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 21 Mar 1998 to 22 Mar 1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Under proper supervisiojn, this may be OK, although it makes me nervous.
A high school kid doing it by himself is unacceptable.
Bob
L. James Stock III wrote:
> We are currently having our Advanced Inorganic Chemistry students prepare
> Nitrogen Triiodide Ammoniate as the first experiment. It is "touched off"
> with a meter stick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:17:41 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: Re: Pregnancy Policies
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Yeah, lots of people told me. Legalities aside, I still think unborn deserve more
protection than adults. maybe I'm just old-fashioned.
Thanks!
Robert Alaimo wrote:
> Message authorized by:
> : /S=rburns@bigfoot.com/OU=SMTP/O=1.UCN.GO.31/P=PROCTERGAMBLE/A=MCI/C=US/ at
>
> Remember the Johnson Controls case when banning work
>
> RJA, CCHO
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
> Subject: Re: Pregnancy Policies
> Author: (INTERNET)LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu at external
> Date: 3/24/98 2:29 PM
>
> Wow! Talk about opening a can of worms!
>
> Legalities aside for a moment, what would the prudent person do? I guess
> I'd advise the employee to stay out of lab, but from what you and others
> say, if she insists, she has to be allowed in.
>
> Note that our policy never reduces an employees income in any way.
>
> Cohen, Barry wrote:
>
> > Employment discrimination laws preclude establishing policies that limit
> > the tasks that a pregnant employee can undertake.
> >
> > The one notable exception is the "declared pregnant employee" aspect
of
> > 10
> > CFR Part 20 - this NRC regulation sets a more conservative radiation
> > dose
> > limit for those employees who choose to "declare" their pregnancy and
> > calls
> > for a termination of all work with radioactive materials for any
> > declared
> > pregnant employee who receives, during the pregnancy, a dose in excess
> > of
> > the limit or exceed the prescribed dose rate even if the total dose is
> > still below the limit.
> >
> > The big caveat in this reg, that gets it past the employment
> > discrimination
> > aspect, is that the employee has the right to choose whether or not to
> > declare her pregnancy and the declaration is solely for purposes of
> > establishing the exposure monitoring process. In other words, she can
> > be
> > nine months, so big she can hardly reach the lab bench, and if she has
> > not
> > declared her pregnancy, in terms on this regulation, she is NOT
> > pregnant.
> >
> > There is a long history and debate over pregnant employee laws - and
> > there
> > are aspects of the laws that can be argued to be both protective and
> > discriminatory to women. But current law says that pregnant employees
> > are
> > not to be treated differently than non pregnant. And by extension,
> > "women
> > of child bearing age" are no different than women or men of any age.
> >
> > With regard to safety policies, the best advice is to establish ones
> > that
> > are protective of all your employees, that reduce potential exposures
> > below
> > established limits and as low are reasonably achievable for all
> > employees.
> >
> > Barry David Cohen
> > Site Manager, Safety & Environmental Compliance
> > Genzyme Corporation
> > 500 Soldiers Field Road
> > Allston, Massachusetts 02134
> >
> > Voice: (617) 562-4507
> > FAX: (617) 562-4599
> > NEXTEL: (617) 590-2707
> > E-Mail: bcohen@genzyme.com
> > http://www.genzyme.com
>
> --
> Robert L. Burns
> Group Leader, R&D
> Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
> 201 Struble Road
> State College, PA 16801
> phone 814-231-9214
> fax 814-238-1567
> email rburns@bigfoot.com
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:47:00 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Harry Elston <helston@FGI.NET>
Subject: Re: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 21 Mar 1998 to 22 Mar 1998
Comments: To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:06 AM 3/26/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Under proper supervisiojn, this may be OK, although it makes me nervous.
>
>A high school kid doing it by himself is unacceptable.
>
>Bob
>
>L. James Stock III wrote:
>
>> We are currently having our Advanced Inorganic Chemistry students prepare
>> Nitrogen Triiodide Ammoniate as the first experiment. It is "touched
off"
>> with a meter stick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As with anything in chemistry, it's the "dose that makes the poison" (to
coin a phrase from my toxicology collegues). Or is it "it's the quantity
that makes the explosion?"
In any event, keep it small.....
Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO
Chemical Hygiene Officer
Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety
Opinions are mine, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah
"You won't find this on 'Beakman's World.'"
-Special Agent Fox Mulder
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:03:43 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: CHO SALARY
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
I receive and overload contract for being CHO. I would say I try to spend 10% of my time
on it since that is about how the pay works out. I receive 3000.00 a year for the extra
duties.
There are weeks when all runs smoothly and I just keep my eyes open in the lab and make
sure things are being done safely. Then there are the weeks when everyone requires
training, the paper work has exploded, and facilities problems become exposure issues.
For what its worth, Janeen.
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:39:14 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Jonathan Foglein <foglein@ROWAN.EDU>
Subject: Re: CHO SALARY
In-Reply-To: <s51a337b.031@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
My position is a little different than the ones described so far, so I feel
its notable.
I was hired one and a half years ago by this University to fulfill two
duties: to maintain the instruments in the department and to be the CHO.
Using a 50:50 split in duties would probably be too generous, with
something closer to 40% being a reasonable number. My salary is in the
mid-$30's, so I'm receiving about $15K per year for my CHO duties.
This position was CREATED by the department a) because the instrumentation
was too much for individual professors to maintain, besides the
discontinuity of care, and b) because the CHO duties were previously added
to the lab tech with no compensation. Unfortunately, she put as much
effort into the CHO aspect as she was getting out of it, although I connot
say that I blame her.
In terms of education, that's about all I have. I received a Master's in
Chemistry, then took on a lab tech job (preping solutions for undergrad
labs, and the like) for two years being arriving here. Now after being
here a while, I have gained considerable knowledge in both aspects of my
position, and I see future potential for persuing either route, depending
on my interests.
As a side note, I am Canadian and this is the first time I have permanently
been in the US. I found the ad for the job I now possess in a discussion
list just like this one. Had I not seen the ad, I'd probably still be in
Canada preping solutions. So, with all of the garbage on the Web, there is
some useful stuff out there! All hope is not lost!
I have found some insight be subscribing to this list, which hopefully will
increase as time goes on.
Jon
Jonathan Foglein
Instrument Coordinator / Chemical Hygiene Officer
Department of Chemistry & Physics
Rowan University
201 Mullica Hill Road, Glassboro, NJ 08028
Phone: (609) 256-4500 x3578
Fax: (609) 256-4921
mailto:foglein@rowan.edu
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:16:32 -0800
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Teresa Robertson <Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Organization: CSU Bakersfield
Subject: Re: CHO SALARY
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
A reply especially to Jonathan Foglein at Rowan University -
Your current experience sounds much like mine, i.e. in a created
position with half of the job being additional support to an under
staffed department, and the other half the CHO (however I have no
predecessor). The dept. I provide support to, ironically, is what you
left behind - making solutions, et. al., for lab classes.
Additionally, many, many thanks to all of you out there, who in the
short existence of NACHO, have provided some outstanding solutions and
contributions to some of my problems and projects.
Teresa R. Robertson, CCHO
CSUB
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:37:42 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Madelyn Miller <mmiller@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: CHO SALARY
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Greetings All,
I find all this information about salaries very interesting but how
does it relate to the number of laboratories that are at each
institution? My last job as a CHO I received $34 K and had
responsibility for 50 labs. My current job I receive $37K, have a
technician and am responsible for 350 labs. Both positions are full
time.
Running undergraduate labs, several jobs ago, was an invaluable
experience. One gets to knows what the most commonly used
chemical are and what they do. Particularly what they did to my
clothes and shoes. But during training I can relate my experiences one
of which was when 50% sodium hydroxide eat a hole in some saddle
leather shoes I once owned. Their training is so much more meaningful
when you can tell people what the hazards are because you've seen them.
I miss "playing" with chemicals but plan to take my technician into the
teaching labs and show her that sodium hydroxide comes in pellets, how
it picks up water as you watch it, and how it heats up a liquid when
you dilute it.
----------------------
Madelyn Miller
Chemical Safety Specialist, CHO
Environmental Health & Safety
Carnegie Mellon University
mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:25:27 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Re: CHO SALARY -Reply
Comments: To: mmiller@ANDREW.CMU.EDU
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
In response to Madelyn's question, I am responsible for 14 labs in two buildings. These
facilities are used by 20+ faculty and research assistants, and 500 students, some
graduate level some undergrad.
I couldn't agree more with your statements about using first hand experience to make
training more meaningful. I too, prepped labs prior to my current position. Story telling
is an art form that few people are truly good at. This said, it is one of the best ways to
engage your training audience. I find that my stories, things that happened to me or
around me, have the greatest impact. It makes the hazard more real to folks.
The greatest gift you can give a trainee in the safety field, is a mister wizards tour of
chemistry. Let them get their gloved hands wet! I learned more about chemical safety as an
analytical chemist for industry than I ever did in college labs. Of course that is
hopefully changing, it is here at UNE.
For what it's worth, Janeen
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:50:05 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: NACHO NEWS
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Howdy one and all. The time has come to help Jim get the word out on NACHO. To that end I
have volunteered to get the NACHO NEWS rolling. A number of us feel that a news letter of
some sort would be a nice function of NACHO.
Who are we and what is NACHO all about? These are just two of the questions NACHO NEWS can
address in its first issue. Helpful hints, tips, and resources for CHO's is an
additional item I would like to see as a regular feature. What else
would you like to read about in the NACHO NEWS? Is there another name you would rather see
on the header?
Please submit all story ideas, and articles you may wish to write to me directly. I will
sort through it all and present you with a rough draft. Please get stuff to me by 4/10.
See you all in the funnies, or something like that, Janeen.
My e-mail: JLaPierre@Mailbox.une.edu
Snail mail:
Janeen Lapierre,CHO
COM-UNE
11 Hills Beach Road
Biddeford, ME 04005
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:14:11 -0500
Reply-To: rburns@bigfoot.com
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Organization: Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
Subject: Re: NACHO NEWS
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I would suggest an electronic newsletter- simply send it to the List.
How about calling it the NACHO CHIP- chip being Chemical Health In Progress, as well as
fitting with NACHO so well.
Anything I can do to help?
BOb
Janeen LaPierre wrote:
> Howdy one and all. The time has come to help Jim get the word out on NACHO. To that
end I have volunteered to get the NACHO NEWS rolling. A number of us feel that a news
letter of some sort would be a nice function of NACHO.
>
> Who are we and what is NACHO all about? These are just two of the questions NACHO
NEWS can address in its first issue. Helpful hints, tips, and resources for CHO's is an
additional item I would like to see as a regular feature. What else would you like to read
about in the NACHO NEWS? Is there another name you would rather see on the header?
>
> Please submit all story ideas, and articles you may wish to write to me directly. I
will sort through it all and present you with a rough draft. Please get stuff to me by
4/10.
>
> See you all in the funnies, or something like that, Janeen.
>
> My e-mail: JLaPierre@Mailbox.une.edu
>
> Snail mail:
> Janeen Lapierre,CHO
> COM-UNE
> 11 Hills Beach Road
> Biddeford, ME 04005
--
Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
Ruetgers-Nease Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:09:48 -0700
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Jeffery M Erickson <ERI@INEL.GOV>
Subject: Re: Glove Use
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Just some additional information for those not familiar with the N-Dex,
nitrile gloves made by the Best Corp. They are available in several
styles, sizes, and thickness' are great for general lab use, and the Best
Corp., per request and for no charge, will supply you with their
Degradation, Permeation Testing and rating data guide for each style of the
glove. They tested the gloves for both total immersion in the test
chemicals and intermittent contact with the test chemicals (lab use /
splash contact) and indicate how quickly the chemical degradates and/or
permeates the gloves. Good stuff to know.
34EMQ6K@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU on 03/26/98 02:15:17 AM
Please respond to LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
cc: (bcc: Jeffery M Erickson/ERI/LMITCO/INEEL/US)
Subject: Re: Glove Use
Here in the Chemistry Dept. at Central Michigan University we provide
disposable Nitrile gloves made by the Best Corp.. We provide them in all
labs. Most importantly we encourage students to IMMEDIATELY remove them
and discard if ANY contact occurs. All gloves are permeable even Silver
Shields.
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:39:25 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Madelyn Miller <mmiller@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Glove Use
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Greetings All,
The easiest way to get information is through he supplier. For
example, a free glove selection database program (for Best gloves) may
be downloaded at: http://www.bestglove.com/chemguide/chemguid.html.
Hope this helps.
Madelyn
----------------------
Madelyn Miller
Chemical Safety Specialist, CHO
Environmental Health & Safety
Carnegie Mellon University
mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:50:20 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Eugene Satrun <eugene_a_satrun@EMAIL.MOBIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Glove Use
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I have used the Best chart at our site and it has some good info. One word
of caution though, know what glove was tested with what chemical. A 6 mil
nitrile glove will not perform the same as a 22 mil glove. The test
results I have seen are based on results from the thicker glove material.
I would not approve an immersion application with the thinner glove based
on a good test result from the thicker glove. While degredation may be
comparable the permeation times will be shorter. Also watch for chemical
mixtures as sometimes they may penetrate a glove quicker than the
individual ones. If the contact is more incidental then the thin glove may
be fine with a caution to the user to wash off any chemical if contact
occurs within a reasonable time frame.
Eugene Satrun, CIH CSP, Mobil Business Resources IH Consultant - Mobil
EHS-GPS
Joliet Refinery, PO Box 874, Joliet IL 60434. BM 279-7739 / Outside Line
815-423-7739 / Fax 815.423.7726
Just some additional information for those not familiar with the N-Dex,
nitrile gloves made by the Best Corp. They are available in several
styles, sizes, and thickness' are great for general lab use, and the Best
Corp., per request and for no charge, will supply you with their
Degradation, Permeation Testing and rating data guide for each style of the
glove. They tested the gloves for both total immersion in the test
chemicals and intermittent contact with the test chemicals (lab use /
splash contact) and indicate how quickly the chemical degradates and/or
permeates the gloves. Good stuff to know.
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 17:34:54 EST
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: MBesant <MBesant@AOL.COM>
Subject: digest
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Lost my set of Listserve instructions. I would like to convert to digest
format. What message should I send and where?
Thank you
Marty Besant
==================================
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 20:26:09 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: MR HOWARD W SPENCER <UDSM01A@PRODIGY.COM>
Subject: digest
I believe it is Listserv@siu.edu then in message sub labsafety-l
Digest
==================================
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:38:00 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Robert Alaimo <alaimo.rj@PG.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: CHO SALARY
Message authorized by:
: /S=mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu/OU=SMTP/O=1.UCN.GO.31/P=PROCTERGAMBLE/A=MCI/C=US
You certainly deserve a big raise with that much responsibility! The
Administration should know how important your job is and that OHSA fines can run
into millions for failure to comply adequately. NACHO's first job should be to
raise awareness with Administration's of the importance and value of the CHO.
RJA
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: CHO SALARY
Author: (INTERNET)labsafety-l@siu.edu at external
Date: 3/26/98 2:37 PM
Greetings All,
I find all this information about salaries very interesting but how
does it relate to the number of laboratories that are at each
institution? My last job as a CHO I received $34 K and had
responsibility for 50 labs. My current job I receive $37K, have a
technician and am responsible for 350 labs. Both positions are full
time.
Running undergraduate labs, several jobs ago, was an invaluable
experience. One gets to knows what the most commonly used
chemical are and what they do. Particularly what they did to my
clothes and shoes. But during training I can relate my experiences one
of which was when 50% sodium hydroxide eat a hole in some saddle
leather shoes I once owned. Their training is so much more meaningful
when you can tell people what the hazards are because you've seen them.
I miss "playing" with chemicals but plan to take my technician into the
teaching labs and show her that sodium hydroxide comes in pellets, how
it picks up water as you watch it, and how it heats up a liquid when
you dilute it.
----------------------
Madelyn Miller
Chemical Safety Specialist, CHO
Environmental Health & Safety
Carnegie Mellon University
mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu
==================================
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:06:21 -0600
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Harry Elston <helston@FGI.NET>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: CHO SALARY
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:38 AM 3/27/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Message authorized by:
> :
/S=mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu/OU=SMTP/O=1.UCN.GO.31/P=PROCTERGAMBLE/A=MCI/C=US
>
>
>You certainly deserve a big raise with that much responsibility! The
>Administration should know how important your job is and that OHSA fines
can run
>into millions for failure to comply adequately. NACHO's first job should
be to
>raise awareness with Administration's of the importance and value of the CHO.
>
>RJA
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: Re: CHO SALARY
>Author: (INTERNET)labsafety-l@siu.edu at external
>Date: 3/26/98 2:37 PM
>
>
>Greetings All,
>I find all this information about salaries very interesting but how
>does it relate to the number of laboratories that are at each
>institution? My last job as a CHO I received $34 K and had
>responsibility for 50 labs. My current job I receive $37K, have a
>technician and am responsible for 350 labs. Both positions are full
>time.
>
>Running undergraduate labs, several jobs ago, was an invaluable
>experience. One gets to knows what the most commonly used
>chemical are and what they do. Particularly what they did to my
>clothes and shoes. But during training I can relate my experiences one
>of which was when 50% sodium hydroxide eat a hole in some saddle
>leather shoes I once owned. Their training is so much more meaningful
>when you can tell people what the hazards are because you've seen them.
>I miss "playing" with chemicals but plan to take my technician into the
>teaching labs and show her that sodium hydroxide comes in pellets, how
>it picks up water as you watch it, and how it heats up a liquid when
>you dilute it.
>
>----------------------
>Madelyn Miller
I agree with you Robert. However, Madelyn and many other CHOs are in the
academic settings where "salary" is not necessarily commensurate with
experience or importance. According to the latest ACS Salary Survey (C&EN,
July 28, 1997, p.13) the median salary for an academic chemist with a BS is
$38.4K, however it gets better when you move into industry, up to $50.0K.
(I have no idea what Madelyn's qualifications are, so I'm just looking up
the "numbers.") Just because one has the potential to "save the employer
millions" evedentially does not imply a great deal of financial "worth," or
benefit from the cost of a new employee, or even a current employee raise.
Harry
Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO
Chemical Hygiene Officer
Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety
Opinions are mine, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah
"You won't find this on 'Beakman's World.'"
-Special Agent Fox Mulder
==================================
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:58:07 -0500
Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU>
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: CHO SALARY -Reply
Comments: To: alaimo.rj@PG.COM
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
How do we go about doing this? I think you are on the right track in thinking that NACHO
could assist all of us like this, but what mechanism do we use? Anyone have any ideas?
Janeen
>>>>>>>>>>
Message authorized by:
: /S=mmiller@andrew.cmu.edu/OU=SMTP/O=1.UCN.GO.31/P=PROCTERGAMBLE/A=MC